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Internet Responds To Racist Article, Gets Author Fired

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the don't-anger-the-digital-mob dept.

Censorship 1208

In the wake of the Trayvon Martin tragedy in February, many publications posted articles about "the talk" — a phrase denoting the conversation many black parents have at some point with their children to explain the realities of racism. Last Thursday, writer John Derbyshire penned an article titled "The Talk: Nonblack Version," which codified a similar set of lessons he had given to his children over the years. Unfortunately, those lessons turned out to be horribly racist themselves. "The remarkably long list of how to teach children to stay safe by avoiding black people goes on for two pages and Derbyshire contends is a true lifesaver. There is no irony or clarification that, perhaps, this is a joke, no matter how much you may want to find a disclaimer after you’re done reading." Reader concealment writes to point out that the internet and the media vocalized their disgust quickly and at length, and now Derbyshire has been fired from his position at the conservative National Review magazine (the offending article appeared in a different publication called Taki's Magazine).

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1208 comments

Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach this (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622167)

When I was a kid, I had a liberal stepdad and a conservative dad. I always thought my dad was just a racist who didn't know what he was talking about. At one point we had it out and so I left my lilly-white hometown to to live with my mom and stepdad in what happened to be a predominantly black school district (which my liberal stepdad considered a great opportunity for me to learn a valuable cultural lesson). After I got a harsh lesson in anti-white racism by getting my ass kicked for about the 10th time at said school, I realized that dad may not be so stupid after all and moved back with in him. It was one of those hard lessons in life about the difference between how things *should* be and how they actually *are*. It's not that my dad wanted to teach me to be some racist cross-burner or something, he just wanted to teach me that racism cuts BOTH ways--and that walking into the wrong school/neighborhood/bar with white skin can be just as dangerous as the vice versa. And it's a lot easier to learn that lesson the easy way than the hard way, believe me.

I like to think that maybe things have changed since I was a kid. I'm not sure, as I learned to avoid these situations altogether by keeping my dumb ass out of where I wasn't wanted.

Of course, no one is ever going to say any of that publicly. You're more likely in the modern world to encounter the Loch Ness monster than any truly honest dialogue on race.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Insightful)

alphatel (1450715) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622209)

It happens on both sides. Some black parents tell their kids to segregate themselves and establish identity. One question though: If a black scholar wrote an article on how to keep the white man's hands out of your pockets, would they also get fired?

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (-1, Flamebait)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622293)

I recall the government-funded NPR recently fired a black reporter after he made a guest appearance on FOX and said some things NPR did not like. So to answer your question: Yes.

The ideal would be no censorship but of course that doesn't apply to private organizations. They censor things all the time.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622313)

How is it "censorship" to not have someone you don't like use your business/property to broadcast their message? He's still free to get his message out using his own stuff.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622439)

And where does that end? If you want to get your message out, move to another country! It doesn't matter if he can go somewhere else: he was censored in some specific place. Well, that would only apply if he had some message to get out, and it was denied.

But all of this is irrelevant. It's not the government doing it.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (0)

ClintJCL (264898) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622479)

It's still censorship, it's just a small censorship.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622497)

The ideal would be no censorship but of course that doesn't apply to private organizations. They censor things all the time.

Including Slashdot, the leadership of which permanently banned Ethanol-fueled from posting and submitting stories.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Insightful)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622515)

NPR is "government funded" like oil companies are "government funded". NPR is no BBC.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (4, Insightful)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622605)

Government-funded NPR.... yeah, no. It's member-station funded for the large majority, and the member stations are funded to 60% (depending on the station) by listener contributions. Unless you have an axe to grind or are willing to delve into the details of their funding, NPR is listener-funded. As for why he was fired: I'd say he was fired for being a moronic news analyst. Not sure that him being black had anything to do with it, but Fox News definitely got some marketing and PR miles out of it.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Informative)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622609)

1. NPR receives very little funding from the government. A high estimate would be about 16% for any individual station. By contrast, Catholic Charities USA claims 67% of its funding is through the government.
2. Juan Williams didn't just say something "NPR did not like," he said something incredibly and unapologetically racist. If he had instead said "the US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are helping the world and the US in particular because it's stabilizing oil production for US consumption and the count of US soldiers injured and killed is a totally acceptable cost" he probably wouldn't have been fired despite the fact that NPR doesn't usually have people say stuff like that on the air.
3. Juan Williams wasn't just some one-time-guest on Fox, he was consistently an analyst for Fox for three years prior to joining NPR.

Now, if you were to say his conservative views and appearances on Fox News were a factor in his firing, that may hold some merit, but the implication that NPR disagreeing with him was a raw cause is rather inflammatory and not quite accurate.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Informative)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622617)

I recall the government-funded NPR recently fired a black reporter after he made a guest appearance on FOX and said some things NPR did not like. So to answer your question: Yes.

You're referring to Juan Williams, and the remarks he made on Fox had nothing to do with blacks vs. whites. Williams made remarks to the effect that he feared for his safety when he saw someone who looked (to him) like a Muslim board an airplane, and that anyone who wears "Muslim garb" obviously identifies themselves as a Muslim first and an American second (if they are American at all). He was fired because these espoused beliefs were in conflict with his role as an NPR news analyst, where he was regularly called upon to comment on the Middle East conflict, terrorism, immigration, and other issues that concern Muslims and Muslim Americans.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (1, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622495)

Oh, it's much worse than just getting away with an article - we (the western world) allowed a terrorist organisation to take control of a country because we felt bad for what the previous regime had done to blacks in that country.

Yes, I'm talking about the ANC.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (-1, Offtopic)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622531)

Oh! I thought you were talking about Obama/Sarkozy's assisting Al-queda take over Libya.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (4, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622541)

Heh, you know what? I'm sat here now thinking "I shouldn't have posted that because now I'm going to get labeled as a racist..."

Funny eh?

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622581)

Not in equal parts. Like it or not, blacks are far more protected from on-black racism than is ANY other race. Chat with an Asian some time and they'll enlighten you. Or a Middle-Eastern, Southwest-Asian, etc. A black youth in a predominately white school will be ultra-protected by everyone around. So much as breath wrong around them and you'll be labeled an intolerant racist. It's a fact.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622283)

Blacks make up a majority of the civilian population, but a majority of the prison population. Avoiding them on the street isn't racism. It's fact based statistics.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (-1, Flamebait)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622391)

Fact: there are more white criminals than black ones.

That there are more blacks that are convicted doesn't disprove the latter, it demonstrates the racism of the justice system.

Be more careful about your data analysis and understand what it describes, and how the data points can be manipulated.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622415)

And white men make up the vast, vast majority of serial killers and pedophiles. I guess we shouldn't let them be teachers, etc, right? It's just 'fact-based statistics', right?

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (3, Insightful)

Surt (22457) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622509)

Only if you believe that their representation in prison is proportional to their criminality. And if you do believe that, you have some reading to do about the justice system.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (4, Insightful)

localman (111171) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622539)

Actually, if you want to make broad judgements, there's a much more significant group that makes up nearly all of the prison population. This group is so ill-adjusted, they are over represented in criminal activity by a factor of nearly 20:1. This group, of course, is men.

If you want to keep it real, you ought be a lot more concerned about why men are such fuck-ups before you worry about what color the men are.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622289)

Like a lot of these types of things, it's really a CLASS issue, not a race issue. There's plenty of predominantly white if not totally white neighborhoods that other white people don't go into because either the neighborhood is a lot more poor than "you," and you're in danger, or the neighborhood is too rich for you, and you'll get the cops called on you. You don't have to have a different color skin if you drive the wrong kind of car, or aren't dressed appropriately. Humans are tribal, and trival societies aren't known for their inclusive nature.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Interesting)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622379)

Humans are as tribal as they want to be. In Ireland there has been a HUGE influx of immigrants from places like Eastern Europe and sub Saharan Africa, something like one in six people were born outside the country according to the most recent census. And this is just in the last ten or so years. Backlash? None. Rise of right wing groups? None. Race riots such as have graced the streets of most European countries and the UK? Zero. And if there's one thing guaranteed to bring out any latent xenophobia its a sudden massive influx of foreigners.

Its a very open and inclusive society. So much for the stereotypes.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622401)

Exactly. My schools (DC, in the early-mid '70s) were about 50% white, 50% non white, and there was never any particular racial tension that I saw. It was only later when I read about the problems in Boston that I even realized that there had been busing going on. Race in the US is often a proxy for class, but class is a more accurate way of viewing things in my experience.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (2)

na1led (1030470) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622477)

We are animals of extinct. If certain people treat us bad, we try to avoid them, and those who treat us nice, we stay around them. It's fear that motivates our judgement.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Insightful)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622317)

I dunno, could be you're just an asshole.

I'm white, but went to a predominantly black High School in a major metro. I had a few altercations, but I never had my ass kicked.

As one of my (black) friends so eloquently put it to me: "You know when they're talking about the N*****s up at G******d, they're talking 'bout you, too."

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (5, Insightful)

Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622485)

I have to second that. There were a lot of problems with gang violence at my highshool. I treated everyone with dignity and respect, and they did the same to me. Only assholes got jumped.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622325)

Thought crime Inception.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (1, Flamebait)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622343)

>>>got a harsh lesson in anti-white racism by getting my ass kicked for about the 10th time at said school

More recent example:

A white guy was beat-up by some blacks who said, "This is for Trayvon." In other words it was a revenge attack against white people. (Never mind that the killer was actually hispanic; not part of the white majority. News orgs like NBC have twisted the story.) Of course the blacks were not charged for a hate crime. Or assault. Just disorderly behavior.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (0)

na1led (1030470) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622375)

Culture and Brain Washing causes people to hate each other based on color, race, gender or religion. Its the same reason why many Muslims hate Jews. Kids are indoctrinated at a young age to think a certain way, and that becomes their mind set as an adult. If Black kids are taught to hate Whites, then they probably will commit crimes against them, and vice-versa.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (1, Flamebait)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622387)

After I got a harsh lesson in anti-white racism by getting my ass kicked for about the 10th time at said school, I realized that dad may not be so stupid after all and moved back with in him.

Whether he's stupid depends on how he interprets the situation. Are young black men more violent towards young white men because they're inherently violent because of genetics? Or do they simply learn that their roles aren't valued by society and take any chance they can to assert dominance, just like anyone of any race would do in their position?

The former is stupid and racist. The latter is smart and correct. Your experience, while possibly consistent with a racist interpretation can also be completely explained without racism. It's still stupid to be racist.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (3, Insightful)

bbbaldie (935205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622449)

(standing, applauding)

Picture the following situation: a black neighborhood watch volunteer kills an unarmed white kid. Two white preachers jump into the fray and make loud declarations about the racial nature of the killing.

They would be roasted by the media and the mainstream public as racist nutbags, true?

So, why don't the reverends Sharpton and Jackson get the same treatment?

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622453)

It's true. After year upon year of crime statistics, social surveys, and IQ testing, not to mention simple daily observation and popular culture, Derbyshire gets fired for daring to utter the unspeakable truth about the huge black elephant in the room of social science.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622511)

So would you say...around blacks, never relax?

You probably deserved it. I was white kid #20/34 at a predominately black and hispanic high school and I never heard of anyone catching a beatdown for being white/black/hispanic/whatever. If you caught an asswhupping it was mostly for talking shit, or some retarded beef outside of school. I never got real shit for being white outside of some jokes.

Anecdotes are anecdotes.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (-1, Flamebait)

fireylord (1074571) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622551)

When I was a kid, I had a liberal stepdad and a conservative dad. I always thought my dad was just a racist who didn't know what he was talking about. At one point we had it out and so I left my lilly-white hometown to to live with my mom and stepdad in what happened to be a predominantly black school district (which my liberal stepdad considered a great opportunity for me to learn a valuable cultural lesson). After I got a harsh lesson in anti-white racism by getting my ass kicked for about the 10th time at said school, .

How much of your getting an ass kicking was about your attitude at that point?
I would postulate that in your case your 'conservative' father had already sewn the seeds of prejudice in you, and that your difference in skin colour was massively overshadowed by the colour of your attitude towards others.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622573)

There's a side story to this that has been left unsaid. When people of any ancestry are both socially and economically disadvantaged, it tends to stay that way. It's not unreasonable to see some in that group lashing out in frustration.

The current environment is a product of history.
Realizing that is the first step to making things right.

Re:Few to admit it, but a lot of parents teach thi (1)

g0bshiTe (596213) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622603)

Not always true. When I lived in California, I wanted to visit Compton don't ask why. Anyway I went into several different areas, hung out at Crenshaw more than once. Not once did anyone start shit.

Racism is everywhere, but I find if you give respect you get respect no matter what color you are.

GNAA and /. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622239)

One of the things I really like about /. is the foolish GNAA stuff we see. I'm actually kind of looking forward to that in this article. It's so obscenely stupid, deadbaby style humor that it makes me laugh almost every time.

Re:GNAA and /. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622587)

I hardly see what's so entertaining about Great Northern Architectural Antiques [gnaa.co.uk] and what relevance they pose to this article?

This seems a bit one-sided... (3, Interesting)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622241)

Why is one list racist and not the other? Is it because the color of skin each list is warning you about? Isn't that really messed up? I mean, making those kinds of judgments based on skin color is really messed up in the first place. That's a given. But isn't really weird for it to be somehow OK to warn against one skin color but not the other?

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622291)

One warns about the existence of racism in general, not "all white people". The other said to avoid area where black people live or govern, and to avoid conversation with unknown black people. They're not remotely the same thing with the races reversed, despite many many attempts to pretend they are.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622295)

One talk says "Be careful, because racist people will treat you poorly, and bad things can happen because of it". The other one says "Be careful, because this other race is much worse than your race, so stay away from members of that race or bad things can happen. (oh but make one black friend so you don't look racist, although there's so few "good" black people that you'll have heavy competition among whites looking for a black friend)". Do you see the difference now? Seriously, that was the most racist fucking thing I've ever read. I feel dirty.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (0)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622301)

But isn't really weird for it to be somehow OK to warn against one skin color but not the other?

If the rate of criminal activity were identical, or even "close" then I'd agree with that 100%.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622555)

That is a class problem, actually.

Single parent households came with the huge increases in the welfare projects that targeted blacks in the late 60s, turning a large portion of an entire race into dependent beggars and destroyed any chance of stable nuclear family. Blacks have a higher percent of single parent households because of this transition from oppressed victims to pitied invalids. Where they once had just as good a chance for healthy child raising environment as whites(even with the majority beating them down), now they are worse off in that respect.

If you normalize for this new infliction set upon them, and only look at the families that have escaped the trap of entitlement, black crime rates become equal with whites.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622305)

Both should have been written without reference to color.
The problem is it could be skin-color, shoe-color, pants-color, bandana-color, hair-color, tattoo-ink color, whatever color that gets your ass kicked or killed, or money stolen, or thrown in jail, or whatever. A lot of people are haters, have had their mentalities skewed to hate whatever it is that oppressed, offended, stole-from or injured them or their elders in some fashion.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622329)

Think of it like this, one has a long history of enslaving and oppressing the other and using technological dominance to enshrine its superiority the national conciousness. Which would you be more worried about repeating past offenses?

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (2)

preaction (1526109) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622339)

I think it's the content of the end of the list, 10f-h, and the specific calling-out of black people in events where any person should be considered a threat (10i). But I also think that it's very easy to go over that blurry line of what is and is not racist.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622397)

Because it's not warning about one skin color and not the other. It's warning that yeah, racism exists. It's a warning that yeah, reaching for your wallet while talking to cops as a black person will be read differently by the cops than reaching for your wallet while talking to the cops as a white person.

One "talk" is about how we live in a racist society. The other talk is about how to be a racist.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622403)

The talks/lessons aren't even in the same vein...

One teaches a kid that he's gonna have a rough time in the real world due to assumptions made because of his skin color and provides a few tips on how to overcome this handicap.

The other list teaches a kid to avoid or act differently around a certain type of people due to preconceived notions.

Its really fucking obvious which one is racist.

Re:This seems a bit one-sided... (1)

Roxton (73137) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622565)

It's not about whether a given activity or anecdote is racist. It's about the cumulative effect of these anecdotes on the daily lives of people. By and large, small business owners are white. HR decision makeres are white. The powerful social clubs are white. Angel investors are white. VC investors are white. The political machinery in your state is probably white. Your neighborhood watch is probably white. Your shrink is white. Your doctor is white. Your game designers are white. Except for a few localized situations, you're probably not going to be seriously adversely impacted by anti-white racism.

A story about anti-black racism is an opportunity to call attention harmful, pervasive attitudes, which are relevant because power is... well, white. It's an important function. If you think giving equal time to anti-white racism is a step towards parity, then you've clearly failed to understand how incredibly far our society is from parity for blacks, and you're part of the God damned problem.

The Talk (5, Insightful)

Johnny Mnemonic (176043) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622263)

I wasn't aware of "The Talk" before reading about it in the summary.

As a (white) father of two young boys, I can't imagine a harder conversation. "Remember all that talk about how you have unlimited potential? Yeah, it's all bullshit. Fight the power (but dont' get killed)."

I can't imagine how it looks to have the hope in their eyes die in front of you.

Re:The Talk (2, Insightful)

CubicleZombie (2590497) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622513)

You will have to tell your kids that they must work harder to get accepted into college because they're white. (but be sure to be P.C. and say "Caucasian American".)

Re:The Talk (2)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622583)

I imagine there are other ways to give 'The Talk'. Any child knows by age 10 that life isn't fair, that isn't going to be news to them. Most likely, by age 10 they've seen enough TV to know that racism still exists in pockets and prejudice exists everywhere. Explaining to your children that the world isn't perfect and that there is always more work to be done should be part of every parent's job. It shouldn't kill their hope, it should empower them. "Look how far we've come! But look also how far we have to go."

Few Surprises (5, Insightful)

American AC in Paris (230456) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622269)

Discovering that John Derbyshire is a racist is somewhat akin to discovering that the sun rises in the east. The man's been quite candid about his views for years.

Kudos to National Review for finally discovering this fact and taking the blindingly obvious course of action, though.

Re:Few Surprises (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622373)

Kudos to National Review for finally discovering this fact and taking the blindingly obvious course of action, though.

...which is "publishing his racist rants"? They only backed down when people got up in arms over this. They lacked any sense of "blindingly obvious", other than "it'll sell this rag to its target audience, obviously".

Re:Few Surprises (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622411)

I wouldn't give the National Review any kudos for the firing of an obvious racist writer. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets hired back before the end of the year. Right before the end of the year.

Re:Few Surprises (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622429)

Unless of course the reason they hired him was because he was a racist. The reason they fired him was because he got caught.

Re:Few Surprises (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622475)

The reason they fired him was because he got caught.

Or because he published his screed in some competitor's magazine instead of theirs.

Re:Few Surprises (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622431)

While the National Review is distancing itself from an unpopular article that it did not publish itself, it's should be noted that it has published equally racist articles (by the magazine's founder, no less) in the past: "Why the South Must Prevail" (National Review, 8/24/57) where William F. Buckley cites the "cultural superiority of white over Negro" and explains that white were "entitled to take such measures as are necessary to prevail, politically and culturally, in areas where [they do] not predominate numerically." A sentiment which he stood by in 1989 while appearing on NPR's Fresh Air.

The motif of racism is abundant in conservative media, and is used as a means of rallying support for the conservative movement in certain parts of the country. It is also used occasionally by the liberals, but I don't want to draw an inaccurate and false equivalency for the sake of being "fair."

Re:Few Surprises (4, Insightful)

MBCook (132727) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622593)

I've never heard of him before, so I went and read the article. After a few paragraphs, I was thinking "this guy is definitely politically incorrect, but does he really deserve to be fired over this?"

Then I read the various sub-points under 10, and yes, it was that bad.

Then I kept reading, and it just got worse.

Wow. It doesn't seem like it would be too hard to turn this into "A Modest Proposal" style satire. By the end, where is he talking about the relative value of "IWSB"s, I mean he is one or two steps away from saying that "IWSB"s should be bought and sold so as to provide the most value for society.

reality (-1, Troll)

alienzed (732782) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622277)

Fact is that racism is a double edge sword. It takes one person to stereotype and another to take it badly, without either of those, there's no conflict.

Re:reality (1)

chispito (1870390) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622383)

Fact is that racism is a double edge sword. It takes one person to stereotype and another to take it badly, without either of those, there's no conflict.

Why in the hell is it required that someone "take it badly?"

Re:reality (-1, Troll)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622393)

Fact is that racism is a double edge sword. It takes one person to stereotype and another to take it badly, without either of those, there's no conflict.

Yes, you can stay in your gated community, say all the racist things you like, and the Neighborhood Watch guys will shoot any of 'them' that stray in.

It's perfectly OK to be a racist when nobody is looking, right?

And, really, if you need to come up with an acronym for "Intelligent and Well Socialized Blacks", you're probably using it too often.

Re:reality (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622423)

I am not sure at all what you're saying. If person A is stereotyped by person B, and is killed/harmed as a result of it ... how exactly does any of that fall on person A's shoulders? Racism is not the tango. It doesn't take two.

just to preempt all of the idiots (3, Insightful)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622321)

intolerance of intolerance is not the same thing as intolerance itself

Re:just to preempt all of the idiots (3, Insightful)

chispito (1870390) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622481)

intolerance of intolerance is not the same thing as intolerance itself

Except that it is. You are saying that everyone needs to work your value of tolerance into their belief system, changing that belief system as necessary. You'll get more results if you are clearer about what you want.

With apologies to Tom Lehrer and Princess Celestia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622571)

intolerance of intolerance is not the same thing as intolerance itself

Stand up and bump a hoof,
Pageviews go through the roof,
Love and tolerate it if you try...

Hooray for National Brotherhood Week [youtube.com] ...

Re:just to preempt all of the idiots (2)

DaveV1.0 (203135) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622611)

So, it is only intolerance if a white person does it?

Too politically correct again.... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622331)

Here's a quote:

"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage of my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved".

Who said that? Oh yeah...Jesse Jackson. It's not like white people are the only ones who don't want to walk by a 6'3" black teenager in a hoodie at night. Black people don't want to walk by them as well.

Re:Too politically correct again.... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622547)

Culture and law has been against the black community in America for how many hundreds of years?

How many generations were denied opportunity and a chance to rise above their parents?

How much influence do these factors have on the education and by proxy the crime rates of the black community?

Who created and reinforced these cultural and legal practices which helped to segregate and harm the black community?

Jesse Jackson is lamenting about the very real consequences of the racist policies and agendas in the United States. Many of which lead to higher rates of incarceration because of broken families, lack of education, lack of job opportunities, and poor and manipulative housing conditions.

Because you couldn't possibly believe that blacks commit more crimes because of a natural preponderance, right?

It isn't a tragedy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622335)

Sick of hearing about how some stupid got their ass killed walking through a pretentious gated community.
One person dieing is a tragedy so what do they call the children and adults suffering in Palestine?
NOTHING because they don't get nearly as much news coverage as some thug who got their brains blown out.

Re:It isn't a tragedy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622523)

the reason we don't care about palestine is because it is thousands of miles away and a different culture from us. lets solve the problems in our own backyard before we start worrying about the worlds issues. and once we solve our own problems lets not stick our noses in someone elses issues because they typically don't like that.

Internet Anthropomorphized (5, Funny)

xstonedogx (814876) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622345)

Internet Anthropomorphized, Is Mildly Amused

Re:Internet Anthropomorphized (1)

eco2geek (582896) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622473)

As you imply, "The Internet" didn't get John Derbyshire fired. John Derbyshire's racist views [wikipedia.org] got John Derbyshire fired.

Derb pointed out (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622357)

that blacks have lower median IQ than whites (true), higher rates of criminality than whites (true), and that you shouldn't go into black neighbourhoods (duh).

What can we conclude? The truth is racist.

Any more racist than Tyler Perry's comments? (5, Insightful)

RandLS (637452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622363)

This guy gets fired, Tyler Perry gets a pass for describing how his mother always taught him how to act if he got held up by white cops and then suing for discrimination basically because 2 white cops didn't know he was famous. All in the same week, and with no incredulity about the double standard. I love our media. And by love, i mean despise.

refutation please (5, Insightful)

fche (36607) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622367)

"Unfortunately, those lessons turned out to be horribly racist themselves."

Be that as it may. It would be worthwhile to provide an item-by-item refutation to the article, than simply scream "racism" and leave it at that.

Re:refutation please (2)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622601)

Be that as it may. It would be worthwhile to provide an item-by-item refutation to the article, than simply scream "racism" and leave it at that.

Take the text, do a search and replace of "black" with "Finlander", "American", "Teenager", "Faggot", "Republican", "Tall", "Skinny", "Fat", "Blonde", "Bespectacled", or pretty much any word of your choosing ... it still reads like a series of gross generalizations which boil down to "stay away from those people -- be polite if you meet one but move on quickly, don't offer them help, don't trust them but don't antagonize them, and if you can pick up a token friend along the way it will make you look good".

Do you really need someone to write a well reasoned refutation to this?

question for outraged white liberals (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622369)

Serious question for anyone who is white and purports to be outraged or disgusted by John Derbyshires article.

Would you volunteer to walk around the streets of Compton on a Friday night. If not why not?

Blacks = Crime (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622377)

Fact

One time... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622385)

... (and I suppose everyone has these kinds of stories) but when I was a teenager I used to live in this really dumpy run-down apartment block. We had befriended a black family that lived downstairs and I used to play basketball frequently with the two boys. They were quite a bit younger than me - I was 16-17 at the time and they were 10-12. Anyway, one day we're playing basketball at the elementary school playground across the street and I said, just joking around, "blah blah blah, my brother" and the youngest kid said to me, almost angrily, "you AIN'T my brother." That really threw me. Here was just a little black kid hanging around with this older white boy from the neighborhood and it was all fun and games up to a point but when I referred to him as "my brother" it was like everything hateful he'd been indoctrinated in - and, yes, it was clear he'd been carefully indoctrinated - about whites came up. I learned reverse-racism was alive and while and I must say it shocked me. One can think everything is hunky-dory and that one is being all culturally enlightened by regularly hanging out with black people, but there is a whole separate side to the culture that is never revealed to you and certainly nothing about how they really tend to feel about whites (which, admittedly, is often justified by narrow-minded and racist whites which an average white kid doesn't ever experience). The racial divide still has a very, very long way to go.

Is this news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622389)

Humans are narrow minded retards with shit for brains. Regardless of age, skin color or backgrounds, we are a bunch of freaking idiots. Having said that, it's no excuse for being a racist retard. Yes, everyone sees race and often we have thoughts and feeling that are prejudice. Everyone has them. Even people who "appear" to be holy or untainted. Everyone is tainted with stupidity. As much as I would like to see people appreciate each culture's diversity, history shows that humans really haven't evolved much or gotten wiser over the last 4K years.

Derbyshire was just telling the truth (-1, Flamebait)

pigiron (104729) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622413)

Negroes attack whites at something like 6 or 7 times the opposite. /.'s political correctness makes me wanna puke. So do you white race traitors and H1B Hindus and Pakis with your bogus technical "degrees" that are forcing down our wages. GTFO!

can't we all just agree... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622425)

...that PEOPLE (irregardless of whether they're black, white, red, yellow, green or purple) are the problem.

Holy fuck (4, Interesting)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622427)

That starts out somewhat coherent and reasonable, and just goes off the deep end. I can't say I feel sorry, at all, for this guy getting fired. He did have one good point, though:

Among your fellow citizens are forty million who identify as black, and whom I shall refer to as black. The cumbersome (and MLK-noncompliant) term “African-American” seems to be in decline, thank goodness. “Colored” and “Negro” are archaisms. What you must call “the ‘N’ word” is used freely among blacks but is taboo to nonblacks.

While it's dangerous to make generalizations across an entire section of the population, especially one that is only defined by a superficial characteristic (I imagine that there are quite a few black people who are seriously offended by the use of the word "nigger" even if it is uttered by another black person), it seems to be largely the social norm that the word is OK to use if you're black, and offensive if you're not. That's a bullshit standard, and it bothers me. Either it's OK for everyone, or it's OK for no one.

Also, he's absolutely right about "African-American" being a stupid term that needs to die. Not only does it fail to recognize that many people feel no particular connection to their ancestry, African or otherwise, but it assumes that every person with dark skin is of African descent. I went to college with a (black) dude who was from Jamaica. Should he have been called "African-American", even though he was neither African, nor American? Stupid.

Re:Holy fuck (1, Interesting)

Laser Lou (230648) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622613)

it seems to be largely the social norm that the word is OK to use if you're black, and offensive if you're not. That's a bullshit standard, and it bothers me. Either it's OK for everyone, or it's OK for no one.

It is really a matter of context. It would not make sense to call someone that word when they could not call you that same word too. If you are content to be called that word in a group, then it would be ok.

No 2 ways to read it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622451)

I was not familiar with Derbyshire but what he wrote was a pretty long list of all the reactions some people exhibit daily toward their racist fears, and written in a "this is the way it is" way.
Makes me feel sorry for the people who live their lives this way, and angry because the rest of us that have to try to put together a functioning sane world that includes these people.

Oh lawdy!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622455)

Po trayvon was jus flossing his gold teef when da white devil stoled his fry chickan!

What about Jesse Jackson... (2)

crankyspice (63953) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622457)

Not to defend Derbyshire, but, what he said (albeit, in much greater obnoxious detail) isn't all that different from what The Rev. Jesse has noted:

Even Jesse Jackson said a few years ago, "There is nothing more painful to me ... than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery, then look around and see somebody white and feel relieved."

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/opinion/articles/960318/archive_010008.htm [usnews.com]

He didnt't get fired for his views (3, Insightful)

sunking2 (521698) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622463)

He got fired because apparently enough people were upset with his views that it threatened to hit the companies bottom line. There is a subtle difference.

Be careful when facts become racist.... (1)

bhlowe (1803290) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622491)

Most of his list appears to be stating facts.. some unfortunate truths.. and some of it appears anecdotal, but may be a case of "Citation needed". Some of it appears to be racist, but prudent advice, like "Stay out of heavily black neighborhoods." Sending your lilly white kid into a housing project would be negligent, but saying so is somehow racist.

In short, the authors crime here was to put into words some facts, experiences and opinion that are too taboo for our delicate sensibilities.

This article doesn't help me at all. (-1)

DaveV1.0 (203135) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622505)

He doesn't say what to do in the situation I found myself in, with a large black man accosting me and trying to start an altercation in a grocery store when I had done nothing at all. I was left wishing I had purchased the handgun I was looking at a few days earlier because this individual was stating that I would have been physically attacked and possibly killed if I had not been inside the store.

And, black people wonder why they have bad reputations, are feared, and get shot.

"Racist" means "white person" (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622521)

"those lessons turned out to be horribly racist themselves."

How "horribly racist".

Damn those white people for not getting with the program and letting their countries be destroyed by unfettered third world immigration! Obviously as soon as a third worlder steps foot on European soil, they magically transform into a European, and their IQ increases, and they become more law abiding! Because we all know that it's LAND MASSES that make one person more intelligent than another, right? It couldn't be genetic, could it... no, of course not.

In other words, the Left are seriously trying to argue that it's LAND MASSES which made Europeans successful, which made us invent 99% of everything that exists in the world today, and it's that nasty land mass of Africa which somehow held back 'the black man' for the last 100,000 years... It's definitely not genes, is it...

Perhaps one of the idiot Left wingers on this forum can tell me - why do you think white people don't have the right to have their own countries ANY MORE?

Glenn Beck effect (5, Insightful)

saveferrousoxide (2566033) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622537)

I was right there with him until I sensed the twist in the logic right at the end of paragraph 5. Then paragraph 6 took the left turn at Albuquerque and it all when horribly wrong culminating in paragraph 15 identifying "desirable" black people as trophies for powerful/rich white people. At that point I was left open mouthed, not so much at what he said as at the fact he seemed to genuinely believe this was not a racist viewpoint because it was backed up by "facts" of some sort and qualified by "personal experience." Glenn Beck, you've met your match!

If the internet and media vocalized (1)

g0bshiTe (596213) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622543)

disgust so quickly, why then is racism still so prevalent in society?

Everyone is a minority (4, Funny)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622557)

The way I look at it, everyone is a minority. It's just a matter of picking some aspect of your heritage which isn't common amongst the population, and boom, you're special.

Except that everyone is special.

So no one is.

Blacks in STEM (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622563)

Wanna bet the % of nigger /. posters is miniscule if not almost non-existent?

Limits of free speech? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622585)

The classic example is that it's wrong to shout "fire" in a crowded auditorium.

Is it just as wrong to shout "tard" on a short bus?

Is it wrong to speak uncomfortable truths, about things that can't be changed?
Regardless of the veracity of his observations, where's the utility?

Racial harmony has been set back 30 years (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39622595)

Having grown up in Oklahoma and having seen racism first hand, I am appalled at hating someone for the color of their skin.

However, in recent years, it is getting harder and harder to hold the line. Not out of hatred, rather out of fear. When black people (and their culture) can turn racist without consequences, they undermine those of us who agree with their plight and put us in the unenviable position of being their enemy, when we are not.

That is happening all over the country right now and EVERYONE knows it. Yet, nobody talks about it. Here [blogspot.com] listen for yourself. If the people on this conference call were white, you can bet your ass things would be different and people would be in jail for inciting violence. Yet......nothing is done while we all pretend it's OK. It's not.

Don't let the first few fool you (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 2 years ago | (#39622597)

The first few are really common sense.

5-9 have more than enough truth to them to make it easy to not look at them hard for inaccuracies.

It's #10 and below where the ignorance starts to shine.

This guy's problems are
1) He is using skin color as a proxy for "person he thinks is unsafe to be around" when there are much better proxies.
2) He is blinded by skin color (or just plain lazy) and is not willing to take the time to really analyze individuals and groups for REAL indicators of character.

Unfortunately, some of the things he says in 11-15 had some truth to them and to a small degree may still have some truth to them. There was an episode of _Good Times_ (an early-1970s sitcom set in a Chicago poor black high-rise) in which the college-bound daughter was grudgingly "accepted" into a highly-sought-after sorority but near the end of the show she realized she was going to be the "token black." However, this person's obvious bigotry makes him a poor spokesperson to champion to accelerate the time when these issues have naturally disappeared.

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