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Kubuntu To Be Sponsored By Blue Systems, Rather Than Canonical

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the flexibility-is-good dept.

GUI 99

JRiddell writes "Kubuntu, the KDE flavour from Ubuntu, has found a new sponsor in Blue Systems. They will be providing more resources than were available by previous sponsor Canonical. The project will remain much the same: community led, KDE focused, Ubuntu flavour. With the new independence it can branch out into new markets such as a Kubuntu Active flavour for tablets."

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Eh.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39633675)

Meh news is Meh.

In Ahnold voice (3, Insightful)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633725)

Consider this a divorce!

Obligatory Yoda voice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636893)

Like a hot potato, juggled they are.

Re:Obligatory Yoda voice (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 2 years ago | (#39637307)

Shaka, when the walls fell.

Re:Obligatory Yoda voice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39639821)

The Yoda reference is funny. The ST:TNG reference is not.

Re:Obligatory Yoda voice (2)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | more than 2 years ago | (#39640757)

AC, his scorn wide.

"More resources than were available" (4, Interesting)

TaoPhoenix (980487) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633727)

Is that another way of saying that with Canonical's push to new UI front ends and Stores and stuff, that support for the KDE side languished?

The summary feels like one of those "tip of the iceberg" ones, where there's a massive lurch beneath the scenes here. Anyone know where the problems are expected to arise in this?

Re:"More resources than were available" (4, Insightful)

Bill_the_Engineer (772575) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633753)

More like Kubuntu now has another source of money and no longer has to adhere to any implied restrictions that Canonical may place on their money.

Re:"More resources than were available" (3, Interesting)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634381)

I quit Kubuntu when it started becoming as big a memory user as Ubuntu. I switched to Lubuntu which uses about 1/3rd as much RAM (and less hard drive thrashing).

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635671)

Actually, why prefer Kubuntu to Mint's KDE version? Kubuntu has made some really strange calls, such as going w/ ReKonq as their default browser. When Canonical dropped support for them, it would have made sense for them to go w/ Mint, but for their developers to refine the various KDE applications out there, such as Calligra Suite, and so on, and leave the OS part of the work to Mint.

This would be a more useful work than just one more Linux distro, which is currently #26 on Distrowatch.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39640111)

Why prefer Mint's KDE version to other distros' versions? Of all the KDE-oreinted distros I've tried, I've found Fedora's KDE spin [fedoraproject.org] to be the best, better even than Mint's.

Re:"More resources than were available" (2)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39640931)

I avoid any distros that use .rpm files as the packaging manager. Apt get and .deb is a lot more reliable, although I'd love to know what the situation is w/ PC-BSD's PBI. But w/ any distro using yumm, I just dread dependency city!

A better question would have been - why prefer Mint's KDE to that of other Ubuntu based distros, such as Comice?

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

spike hay (534165) | more than 2 years ago | (#39647135)

PBI seems to work well, but there's so few packages that ports tree is still basically the only game in town.

Re:"More resources than were available" (3, Interesting)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39640121)

Mint requires a re-installation/import whenever there's a new release. Kubuntu, I installed once somewhere around '07 and the upgrades every 6 months are painless. You can make an argument that Mint's approach is safer, but isn't it good to have distros for both strategies so both strategies can develop further and people who prefer each have a choice?

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39640935)

Yeah, that's a good reason

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39768493)

Indeed.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39637933)

I also use Lubuntu. Works fine. Who needs all the fluff?

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

dudpixel (1429789) | more than 2 years ago | (#39640375)

I assume that buying more ram isn't an option?

I care about not running out of ram. I dont care about ram usage on its own. I'd rather it was used than sitting idle if it gives me better performance (and it does).

Re:"More resources than were available" (3, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636295)

I think this is wonderful news as KDE has been the saner choice as of late as far as stability, but if they are smart they will base it on Debian and NOT Ubuntu. it is pretty obvious to anyone with eyes that Canonical is floundering, trying to find a business model that will keep them alive and failing, first Netbook edition (coming waaaay past when that boat had sailed) and then trying to rip off of all people that stupid ass MSFT idea of pushing cell phone UIs on the desktop, hoping they can sell either Ubuntu TV (not a chance, Android and embedded Linux variants has that tied up) or Ubuntu smartphones (not a chance the market is too crowded as it is, its obvious it'll be owned by apple and Android) so they can expect quality to go down, bugs to go up, simply because they have ZERO real revenue stream and Shuttleworth has already said he's not sinking more of his money into Canonical.

Debian was here before Canonical and will be here in 3 years when i predict Canonical will either go cloud server OS only or close their doors. they have testing if they want to be cutting edge but IMHO basing it on stable would be the way to go, a rock solid never breaks KDE with a push towards user friendliness might be just the ticket to gain some share when MSFT shits out Win 8, aka "My God I want to be the CEO of Apple so bad it hurts!" Ballmer edition.

Re:"More resources than were available" (4, Insightful)

idontgno (624372) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633945)

Problems? As far as I can tell, Canonical was Kubuntu's primary problem, and finding an independent sponsor is an awesome solution.

I hope this works out. I vastly prefer KDE over that Unity abortion Canonical is trying to foist on us. I'd use Kubuntu over Ubuntu even if Kubuntu stagnated completely, but this makes avoiding Canonical's silly marketing games practical.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39634079)

I hope this works out. I vastly prefer KDE over that Unity abortion Canonical is trying to foist on us. I'd use Kubuntu over Ubuntu even if Kubuntu stagnated completely, but this makes avoiding Canonical's silly marketing games practical.

You sound almost like the victim in an abusive relationship. At what point do you say "ok, if Kubuntu can't get their shit together that's too bad, but there are other KDE distros that will work better for me" and then JUMP SHIP. This isn't like Windows where Microsoft is the only game in town.

Re:"More resources than were available" (4, Insightful)

metamatic (202216) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634131)

Well, personally I was considering moving to Debian, but there really aren't that many APT-based distros with good KDE flavor.

Re:"More resources than were available" (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636113)

I was with Debian since v4 - finally ended with Debian 6.04. I won't go back. Not only is the installer a pain in the rump, but it's almost impossible to install the binary nVIDIA drivers on a 5 year old card even.

I went with OpenSUSE 12.1/KDE 4.6 works like a charm, AND I installed the nVIDIA drivers without a bit of a problem.

Debian's people got their egos in the way.

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636407)

Not only is the installer a pain in the rump, but it's almost impossible to install the binary nVIDIA drivers on a 5 year old card even.

I must laugh at this. It's certainly possible and I have done it often. You must mean "I couldn't get it working, I don't know what I'm doing."

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

dudpixel (1429789) | more than 2 years ago | (#39640399)

If a reasonably capable user cant install it then its no longer just a problem with the user.

You can bask in the glow of your superiority but in the end the GP has moved on and is now just as productive as you for less effort - that must really suck. after all, you're smarter right?

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

Rysc (136391) | more than 2 years ago | (#39642255)

If you wish to give up and use something else, be my guest. When you start messing with facts is when I take issue. I am not attempting to make myself appear smart, I am merely providing counter-anecdotal evidence. I didn't reply to you for your benefit, but to make sure that the impressionable bystander is not given a one-sided narrative. Reports of difficulty are greatly exaggerated by you, full stop, no need to worry that there's some fundamental flaw in Debian.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39643977)

May I offer you a subscription to Autist Monthly?

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

dudpixel (1429789) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653515)

I haven't used debian but I'll bet its more difficult than just ticking the box next to nvidia-current in synaptic.

You said you were providing counter-anecdotal evidence but I see no such evidence of the above in what you wrote. Care to tell us how easy it is to install the nvidia driver in debian?

and has it progressed to the point where kernel updates no longer require the nvidia driver to be (manually) reinstalled?

in *buntu (and most other distros), the packages get updated together, so you install it once and then forget about it after that - it just keeps working new version after new version.

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

dudpixel (1429789) | more than 2 years ago | (#39653525)

btw I do know how to install the nvidia driver manually - I've done it many times. But these days one shouldn't need to do that.

Re:"More resources than were available" (2)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636737)

The installer sucks (why it stays frozen, doing exactly nothing for about 30 minutes on all my machines after copying files is a mystery), granted, but I have a working Geforce FX 5200 (from 2003) using the legacy 173 drivers from the repository. No pain at all. (Getting a Radeon HD5570 to work, on the other hand, was a bit more challenging because it requires a manually written xorg.conf.)

About the egos, I always smile when I read on distrowatch's list of cons "discussion in the mailing lists can get a bit uncultured at times". I'd call it "excessive passion", cutting the developers a slack because Debian is a colossus of a project that just shouldn't work, when you think about it. It's collaborative and pays nothing to its voluntaries, but managed to be the biggest distro (both in number of packages and, if you count its derivatives, in users), handling five branches concurrently (oldstable, stable, testing, unstable, experimental) while being a cornerstone of stability and democratically led with no major corporate sponsor.

Debian is a lot like Wikipedia. Sure, we can bash its editors for being egotistical and picky, but it's their work that gave us the biggest (and arguably the most accurate) encyclopedia ever. Flamewars are an insignificant overhead, when we look at the sheer magnitude of the result, and even if we have no interest in joining the flamefest, we should respect people devoted enough to fight for what they think is right, for free. It's what makes great projects great. The Torvalds-Tanenbaum feud also springs to mind.

Re:"More resources than were available" (3, Interesting)

nschubach (922175) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636235)

Why not just use Debian with KDE? http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/ [debian.org]

Are you looking for something in particular that is only available in some distro?

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636419)

An installer that works on wifi would be a nice start. First it didn't support it at all. Then it finds the device but isn't able to actually send data over it. Every other distribution gets this right, it's debian's installer that just can't hack it. Debian treats driver support as an afterthought, believing it to be solely an upstream problem with no need of proper packaging or distribution.

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636791)

So you are scolding a distribution that sticks to its beliefs in freedom? Debian does not ship with any non-free software by default. That includes wireless network drivers, proprietary video drivers and other.
You can get an installer image that includes non-free drivers at this location:
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/unofficial/non-free/cd-including-firmware/

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39640441)

Do you mean "creates a system that is useless because it doesn't help users do what they need to be able to do because of intransigent fanaticism that should have fucked off years ago?" Do you know what an OS is? It's a tool. If you don't like it that people think the tool sucks, maybe you should look at why that is and fix it instead of spouting the same old mantra over and over again. We don't care about your altruistic fanatical belief system. We just want a fucking OS that let's us do the things we need it to do. We need wireless. We need music and the ability to play mp3's. We need the ability to watch video's online with reliability which means real drivers not reverse engineered flaky as shit drivers. We need compatibility with software from other systems. If you don't like it, get stuffed and take your Stallman ass licking tongue somewhere else.

Re:"More resources than were available" (2)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39641009)

I fully agree w/ this. As for the GP's point - RMS still dings Debian for even offering 'non-Free' software in its repositories, so what they are doing is thankless anyway. Instead, during installation, they could, somewhere at the beginning of the installation, ask an user whether s/he wants to restrict the installation to software whose source codes are freely available, or not, and include suggestions on which ones to pick if they are in doubt. Then do the install from there. If the user chooses the 'non-Free' route, install everything that would make life easier. If the user goes the 'Free' route (gawd, I loathe this terminology), just install the ones from the archive, w/ the advisory that certain things not included are not included b'cos they are non-Free.

I can understand the 'free' vs 'non-free' argument if it was simply a question of which software to use, such as Opera vs GNOME Web, or things of that sort. But not including Wi-Fi drivers or video drivers for that reason is retarded - by doing that, the system is deliberately crippled! If network drivers are not included due to the fanaticism, it just makes it impossible to use the computer. Honestly, Debian is just shooting itself in the foot w/ this one.

or (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39644003)

or you could both get fucked if you don't like it.

all OSes suck in some way or other. Pick your poison and work with that. The above AC who 'needs' music is just a whiny pussy bitch who has yet to realise the world doesn't revolve around him.

Debian and Linux in general is fantastic value and you whiny puerile little girls really need to get a grip. People like you 2 make it a miracle that something as good as Debian is even available *at all*.

As for shooting itslef in the foot, perhaps it is rather doing what is necessary to maintain the very practical ideals it started with. Honestly anyone who rips on Debian cos it doesn't contain a few lines of code *they* might happen to need (and are probably simply incapable of installing) should juust STFU unless they really *want* to demonstrate to the world just how fucking stupid and pathetic they are.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39639829)

I started out with Debian 12 years ago and left it for Kubuntu 6-7 years ago. I recently had an old machine I wanted to play with and so I decided to give Debian a try again. No dice. Would install, but no X. Tried to find the tools to configure X, but couldn't find them. Googled, but was confused and after a day I still only had a command prompt. Installed Kubuntu and was greeted by a login screen within an hour. I know, not a KDE matter, but it shows how much effort you have to put into Debian to get it working. Fine for some, not for most.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636409)

Yep, just go back to Debian. Its THE source. I don't see the fascination with Ubuntu anyway, I tried it and kept feeling like I was being given only 1/4 of Debian.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39637377)

Give MEPIS a spin if you haven't already. Best KDE deb by far in my opinion. It's to Debian what Mint is to Ubuntu.

Re:"More resources than were available" (2)

LordLucless (582312) | more than 2 years ago | (#39637473)

I moved to KDE Mint 12 when I upgraded away from the last pre-Unity Ubuntu LTS. It's been running fine for me, but my needs are modest.

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39642809)

Checking out Blue Systems' [blue-systems.com] , looks like they will be sponsoring KDE Mint, Netrunner and other KDE related projects as well, which is cool. Hope they include PC-BSD as well, so that they cover not just Linux, but BSD as well.

Also, it would be a good idea for Blue Systems to sponsor some strategic KDE apps, such as Calligra, Konqueror and so on, and maybe, at some point, even take over the development of Qt and KDE as well. That way, any unix that offers KDE will have a readymade OOB experience regardless of its underpinnings. Oh, and if possible, bundle it w/ Wayland, so that when KDE is installed, it first (optionally) installs Wayland on the kernel, and then KDE on top on Wayland.

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

korgitser (1809018) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635583)

I vastly prefer KDE over that Unity abortion Canonical is trying to foist on us.

branch out into new markets such as a Kubuntu Active flavour for tablets

Well this actually sounds like a plan to turn Kubuntu into another abortion, something that would be called Kunity or whatever.

Re:"More resources than were available" (2)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39641171)

Unlike Unity and Metro, the KDE project accepts that different platforms have different requirements, and has a different UI for each so that they can be best tuned to the platform, w/o being constrained by design decisions of another. KDE has one UI for desktops/laptops, one for netbooks and one called Plasma Active for tablets. As a result, their desktop version has a taskbar similar to Windows 7 and prior, while Plasma Active is purely a touchscreen oriented interface.

In fact, I've not seen KDE users complain about the UIs. People who do complain about it are those who left it after the fiasco of the initial KDE 4.x releases, but from what I understand, that's been subsequently fixed in 4.7 and beyond. The other criticism is its resource requirements, which is no more than Windows, but may be too much for those trying to get there from Windows 2k or prior versions. Also, the problems that KDE had was due to the changes involved in going from Qt3 to Qt4 - they released KDE4 way before it was ready. Ideally, when KDE4.7 was what they should have released as KDE4. Hopefully, when they migrate KDE from Qt4 to Qt5, they'll make sure that there is no disruption in user experience before going ahead.

My only other beef w/ them is all those 'K' names - would really like that aspect to disappear.

Re:"More resources than were available" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39638145)

Here [youtube.com] is a video where Linus and Greg Kroah-Hartman (the stable maintainer) discuss Canonical's contributions upstream. At one point they joke that Microsoft contributes more to the kernel than Canonical does.

Basically, Ubuntu is a pure parasite on the underlying technologies, and the only "innovation" they do is UI design. I have been an Ubuntu user since 6.06, but I recently switched to Fedora. I would rather invest my mindshare with a company who actually hires Kernel devs and pioneers technologies like Linux LVM than one who basically just does marketing.

Re:"More resources than were available" (4, Informative)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634149)

I think it is more a result of the fact that Canonical disowned Kubuntu [slashdot.org] a couple of months ago, and the Kubuntu team needed a new host.

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#39641797)

It sounds like a big improvement to me. I can't help thinking that the Gnome faction was pushing hard for "integration" with the lastest Gnome whizzy idea of the week, to the detriment of KDE stability.

Re:"More resources than were available" (1)

Daniel Phillips (238627) | more than 2 years ago | (#39641779)

Is that another way of saying that with Canonical's push to new UI front ends and Stores and stuff, that support for the KDE side languished?

My theory is, the only purpose of kubuntu as a Canonical project was to apply their "branding". But all I want, as a longtime KDE user, is for Kubuntu to be as much like upstream KDE as possible. Oh, and exercise better judgement about when to push shiny new upstream releases. 7.2 was a disaster, it completely broke Kmail. There is no way that should have gone into general distribution until upstream got their act together. If Kubuntu had done the right thing and held it, the worst damage would have been fixed.

What We Really Need (4, Interesting)

macromorgan (2020426) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633749)

What we really need is a Gnome flavor of Ubuntu. Still not a fan of Unity, while Gnome 3 is starting to grow on me. Where's my Gnubuntu?

Re:What We Really Need (1)

vjoel (945280) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633851)

Mint with Cinnamon?

I'm not advocating, I'm asking: is this what you would want from "Gnubuntu"?

Re:What We Really Need (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39634077)

Gnome is up to version 3, in case you didn't notice

Re:What We Really Need (4, Funny)

lennier1 (264730) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634475)

Yes, but there are projects to repair that damage.

Re:What We Really Need (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39634623)

There's also mate, a Gnome 2 fork. Both are available for ubuntu and come packaged with Mint.

Re:What We Really Need (5, Informative)

mishu2065 (1616553) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633923)

1) Install Ubuntu 12.04 (beta, for now)
2) Open terminal
3) sudo apt-get install gnome-panel
4) Log out and back in, selecting GNOME Classic as Desktop Environment
5) ???
6) Profit!!! Actually, there is no step 5. :)

Re:What We Really Need (2)

jimmy_dean (463322) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634303)

1) Install Ubuntu 12.04 (beta, for now)

2) Open terminal

3) sudo apt-get install gnome-panel

4) Log out and back in, selecting GNOME Classic as Desktop Environment

5) ???

6) Profit!!!

Actually, there is no step 5. :)

Or rather than step 3, you can get GNOME 3 by doing "sudo apt-get install gnome-shell"

Re:What We Really Need (-1, Troll)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634683)

1) Install Ubuntu 12.04 (beta, for now)

2) Open terminal

3) sudo apt-get install gnome-panel

4) Log out and back in, selecting GNOME Classic as Desktop Environment

5) ???

6) Profit!!!

Actually, there is no step 5. :)

Or rather than step 3, you can get GNOME 3 by doing "sudo apt-get install gnome-shell"

new step four step 4 slit wrists

fixed it for you

Re:What We Really Need (1)

Cherubim1 (2501030) | more than 2 years ago | (#39639507)

Gnome classic with GTK3 is missing a lot of functionality and is nothing like Gnome 2.3x in flexibility. Cinnamon looks promising as a Gnome 3 shell replacment but right now it's still a work in progress.

Re:What We Really Need (1)

CalcProgrammer1 (1163305) | more than 2 years ago | (#39640929)

Both MATE (fork of GNOME 2 retaining everything you know and love from 2.x) and Cinnamon (Linux Mint's fork of GNOME 3 aiming to bring a more traditional interface with the same powerful backend) work perfectly on Ubuntu 11.10 and I'm assuming also 12.04. I ditched 11.10 for Debian when it first released as I detest Unity with a fiery passion and don't think much more of the atrocity that the GNOME developers have unleashed either. However, Debian (testing) soon switched to GNOME 3 as well and I was back at square one.

After jumping distros a few times I ended up back at Ubuntu 11.10, but have customized it by installing MATE and Cinnamon. I prefer to use some of the MATE (old GNOME) versions of the utilities (such as Caja, the old Nautilus before it screwed up half its features for no apparent reason) but love the new Cinnamon interface. If Ubuntu would release a Cinnamon version I would switch in a heartbeat.

I also don't care much for the software center, it is kind of straying away from the Debian core more than I would like, so I remove it and reinstall aptitude and synaptic. I like them much better. Once you configure it, 11.10 is a very nice distro. It's a shame the default install has turned into what it has though.

Re:What We Really Need (1)

CosaNostra Pizza Inc (1299163) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635295)

I thought Unity is actually very similar to the shell used in Gnome 3. Personally, I think its better than the Gnome 3 shell.

Re:What We Really Need (1)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 2 years ago | (#39638261)

Being better than the Gnome 3 shell isn't an accomplishment -- but being worse would be newsworthy. And that "very similar" part isn't exactly praise.

Re:What We Really Need (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635699)

What we really need is a Gnome flavor of Ubuntu. Still not a fan of Unity, while Gnome 3 is starting to grow on me. Where's my Gnubuntu?

From what I understand, w/ Ubuntu, one has the option of selecting GNOME3 if one ain't happy. The reason the bulk of Ubuntu users went to Mint is that they wanted to stay w/ GNOME2, not go to GNOME3.

Re:What We Really Need (2)

nine-times (778537) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635919)

Personally, I think it makes sens for distributions to begin going their own way. I don't think it's a bad idea of Ubuntu wants to say, "We're developing a Unity-based desktop OS. If you want to install KDE, be our guests. If you want to create a whole KDE-based fork, we have no objections. However, we're just going to focus on making a consistent and coherent desktop environment using Unity."

Different distributions can make different choices. Fedora might make a Gnome distribution and SUSE might make one with KDE. It might be a mistake to think that every distribution has to be all things to all people.

Good (2, Informative)

bacon.frankfurter (2584789) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633791)

Because Unity sucks.

Re:Good (3, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634145)

Because Unity sucks.

About the only things I want from a distribution are a good package manager, a good selection of available packages, and timely attention paid to security.

What comes installed by default is something I'm likely to rearrange anyway. I don't like Unity either, which is why it would be installed for all of a few minutes until I replace it with something else if I decided that Ubuntu/Kubuntu fit my criteria.

So how many Slashdotters really just stick with defaults no matter how much they like something else better? Seems like a total non-issue (and a non-complaint) to me.

Re:Good (1)

reub2000 (705806) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635141)

If it's going to uninstalled in a few minutes, why install it in the first place? It seems like it would be easier to just do a minimal install. I don't know of any distros that don't allow a minimal install. Either that or find a spin with the software that you actually want.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636405)

If it's going to uninstalled in a few minutes, why install it in the first place? It seems like it would be easier to just do a minimal install. I don't know of any distros that don't allow a minimal install. Either that or find a spin with the software that you actually want.

There is a minimal install disk for Ubuntu and it's perfectly possible to go from this to (e.g.) a full (and very clean) system with an alternate DE. But the Debian text-mode installer it uses is much slower than the standard Ubuntu desktop installer, and there are a few less than obvious packages you need to install to get a fully functional desktop-based system. If you like everything about Ubuntu except Unity, it's actually quicker and easier (though not as clean) to start with the standard desktop installation and simply add your preferred DE. This is how I've been installing MATE recently, basically turning the current distribution into a 'traditional' (but up to date) Gnome 2 Ubuntu with very little effort (Unity remains installed in case I'm feeling masochistic). There's no mainstream spinoff that provides this (unless you count Mint, which has diverged much further from standard Ubuntu, or one of the hobby distros that may not be here in 6 months time).

Re:Good (4, Insightful)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635265)

I don't know for other slashdotters, but I can tell you why I care about sane defaults. Support. You see, many slasdotters live in a void where there is their desktop and the rest can just suck it up. I, on the other hand, help other people with their computers.

Ubuntu, until the version 10.04 LTS, was a distribution you could take, drop on a machine, install half a dozen packages (Thunderbird, Restricted Extras, ....) and be done with it. Installation time very quick. This compared to a Windows install which can take a up to a day, including hunting for drivers, software, securing it and finally setting the GUI to sane defaults. It's a complete pain.

Now, assume just for the sake of it that I ddi default installs for my friends and family and let them figure it out, and I do my thing in my corner. First support call, I get from them will put me and Linux in a bad light (either, or... ) and I want neither. Thus, I use the default desktop in order to be able to support them! Eating your own dog food, you know.

Deviating significantly from default install, increases the initial install time and increases the risk that you forgot to change a tiny GUI setting you use. (Example from the Windows world: you work with extensions turned on, the default is off. You forgot that on you family/friends computer. Try explaining the how to turn it on and why you need it, as it now suddenly deviates from what they are used.

That's my personal problem with the whole debacle. Furthermore, there has to be said something about software quality feels. If you have sane GUI settings from the beginning, your software is perceived as higher quality. That is also very important for the normal user. That we, nerds, can change everything to our hearts desire is not important to them.

As for Unity, I hated it at first too, but the changes in 12.04 beta, improved its usability. It's not perfect, but by now I can see my mom use it. (She's on 10.04LTS) and that /is/ important to me.

Re:Good (1)

Rashkae (59673) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635725)

Does Unity still play Hide the Menu? That might seem like a pet peeve, but I think that right that demonstrates just exactly how much attention is put to "useability" of Unity.

Re:Good (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635977)

Nope, that was one of my biggest issues with it and I must not have been the only one. It's fixed now.

Re:Good (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636021)

Just to make sure, I'm talking about the icon bar at the left side of the screen (They call it dash or somesuch).

Re:Good (1)

Rashkae (59673) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636175)

I should have been more clear. I was talking about the menu bar.

The the previous versions of Unity I tried, the menu bar would be hidden at the top of the screen until you moused over it to see the menus.

Re:Good (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636557)

I'm not at my computer right now, but I'll check for you when I can. It's something I never noticed, so it probably doesn't irk me. I can understand that such small things annoy. Many of those and the frustration adds up.

Re:Good (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39637141)

I just checked. No, it still hides the menu and you need to hover over it to get the options. Weird, I never noticed this before or at least it didn't annoy me. I bet that now I know, it will start to annoy me. *sigh*

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39641525)

the icon bar is visible with the default settings, at least for the compiz enabled version. The 2d version still hides it afaik

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39655151)

Thank you for sharing. I have similar concerns.

I want the OOTB experience to "just work", but also have flexibility to do more advanced configuration.

Re:Good (1)

zoward (188110) | more than 2 years ago | (#39646875)

So how many Slashdotters really just stick with defaults no matter how much they like something else better? Seems like a total non-issue (and a non-complaint) to me.

The problem is that in most distros the default system is installed around the default desktop UI, so just typing

apt-get install xxx-desktop

might get you the desktop, but many apps designed for the new desktop UI only partially work, and some not at all. This is why kubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu end up with their own install discs, even though (IIRC) they use the same repositories (ie, codebase) as ubuntu.

Re:Good (1)

bbbaldie (935205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635491)

I agree. And that's why i eagerly anticipate the public reaction to Windows 8! :-D

hmmmm (1)

flytripper (2540266) | more than 2 years ago | (#39633877)

As long as they don't expect me to use my desktop like a tablet I don't give a damn.

Blue Systems (4, Funny)

Tarlus (1000874) | more than 2 years ago | (#39634075)

Given KDE's (and especially Kubuntu's) affinity for the color blue, this seems appropriate.

Blue Systems? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39634295)

OK, who or what is Blue Systems? The only information on their website [blue-systems.com] is a list of projects sponsored by them.

Re:Blue Systems? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39635291)

A quick whois lookup shows affiliation with IT Works Unlimited GmbH & Co. KG [ http://www.itwu.de/index.html ]

Re:Blue Systems? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636109)

Whoever they are, they seem to be very interested in KDE. All the projects they sponsor are either KDE apps or KDE based OS.
They sponsor NetRunner OS with is based on Kubuntu. So it does make sense when they decided to put their money behind Kubuntu when Canonical made the announcement that they were turning Kubuntu to the community.

Re:Blue Systems? (1)

hobarrera (2008506) | more than 2 years ago | (#39646191)

I agree. Googling it revelead nothing. Does anyone else know anything about this company?

What a relief (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39634815)

Well, after moving my netbook from Ubuntu to Mint six months ago -after a couple of hours of trying to get to grips with Unity- I was considering switching my KUbuntu main desktop to something else. Now, where's the "donate" button for Blue Systems?

Re:What a relief (2)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39635749)

Mint also does KDE as one of its options. So if you've moved to Mint on one front, you can just as well switch your Kubuntu to Mint/KDE.

Who are Blue Systems? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39634919)

Who are Blue Systems? The web page of Blue Systems is limited to a single page. They also seem to be sponsoring a number of other distros. I sounds like great news... Just not sure who they are!

hot air (1)

jjohn_h (674302) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636097)

When Canonical was supporting Kubuntu it allowed one of its developers to work on it as part of his job. And the guy happened to be the soul of Kubuntu.

Now how is the support by Blue Systems supposed to help? The guy would resign from Canonical and work freelance or what?

Re:hot air (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39639503)

When Canonical was supporting Kubuntu it allowed one of its developers to work on it as part of his job. And the guy happened to be the soul of Kubuntu.

Now how is the support by Blue Systems supposed to help? The guy would resign from Canonical and work freelance or what?

Actually, yes. After 12.04 is released, he is leaving Canonical and will be employed at Blue Systems.

Excellent News! (4, Interesting)

Wattos (2268108) | more than 2 years ago | (#39636325)

This is really awesome!

I was always a Gnome fan and Ubuntu fan. Have been using Ubuntu since Ubuntu 6.4. When Unity came out, I wanted to give it a fair shot and I did. However things like the total lack of customization and general slowness when opening dash turned me off (gnome-do + docky offer a much faster solution). I also tried gnome-shell for a bit. This is also somewhat limited in the ways you can customize it (e.g. what about 2x2 workspaces?) and general problems with graphic drivers ( I was getting hard freezes 1-3 times a day, which made it impractical)

So couple of months ago I tried KDE 4.7. I Instantly liked how it is very similar to the desktop Im used to, but also offers interesting things like plasma widgets and is very customizable. I would not want to go back to gnome again.

So now I have a choice of distributions to pick. There is the Chakra project, which is totally awesome (I tried it for a while), however, it is not yet ready for prime time (things like installing non-KDE is very cumbersome and requires a lot of time). Kubuntu on the other hand comes with the awesome packaging system from ubuntu which makes installing applications a breeze. Moreover, almost any project out there, has an ubuntu repository (if its not already in the default repositories) making it the default choice if you dont want to start compiling applications for yourself.

When I heard about Canonical dropping Kubuntu, I was worried at first that it might go under. But this development makes a very happy camper and am looking forward at the next releases of Kubuntu!

Re:Excellent News! (1)

wirelessduck (2581819) | more than 2 years ago | (#39639963)

Have been using Ubuntu since Ubuntu 6.4.

That must have been the Cranky Caribou edition. So cranky that they didn't bother telling anyone about it...

Re:Excellent News! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39656637)

This is really awesome!

I was always a Gnome fan and Ubuntu fan. Have been using Ubuntu since Ubuntu 6.4.

There is no ubuntu 6.04, dapper drake came out two months late, getting a 6.06 version number.

A new trademark is in order. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39636537)

Too bad "Blue Kube" is already taken.

Please ditch 4 and use TRINITY!!! (2)

scurvyj (1158787) | more than 2 years ago | (#39639215)

Yeah well can they please ditch the utter DISASTER that is KDE4 and go with TRINITY!! Pleaaaaasse!!!!!!

Kubuntu sucks (1)

Cherubim1 (2501030) | more than 2 years ago | (#39639487)

Kubuntu is one of the worst KDE-based Linux distros around. No wonder Canonical wanted nothing to do with it.

Re:Kubuntu sucks (1)

blackpaw (240313) | more than 2 years ago | (#39641149)

Hear that said occasionally, never seen anything to back it up.

Re:Kubuntu sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39728921)

I can recall some stability/packaging issues back in 2007, which is---according to my experience---a long time problem of Ubuntu and their repositories. For example: I needed Anki last year, but it was broken right after apt-get install... without any user actions.

LOVE THAT KUBUNTU (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39640625)

Typing this on x64 natty. So what you say ? Kubuntu finally allowed me to leave windows for good !
Now there is no going back. I experimented for many years with all different distros. There was always
somegodforsaken problem with network or sound or dependancies. About 2 years ago i put Kubuntu
on my Laptop and for the first time everything just worked. It allowed me to get confident with the linux
environment, i got my iphone to sync and then it was my main desktop, and then i was converting friends

I too got worried when i heard that canonical dropped support, but now im looking foward to future with this good news !

Thanks Kubuntu !

Name Change (1)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | more than 2 years ago | (#39642257)

Surely, they will have to change their name to Blue K Systems...

Re:Name Change (1)

unixisc (2429386) | more than 2 years ago | (#39691565)

Since the OS will no longer be connected to Ubuntu or Canonical, it would seem more appropriate to rename it to something else other than Kubuntu.

Choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39645165)

Choice quote:

"more resources than were available by previous sponsor Canonical"

What? KDE needs more resources than GNOME after all?
(I kid, I kid ;^)

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