×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Experts Warn Of Possible North Korean Nuclear Test

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the what-could-possibly-go-wrong dept.

The Military 101

After the recent failure of North Korea's rocket launch test, experts are warning that the country's leadership will likely try to save face by following it up with a nuclear weapons test. According to CBS, "The rocket launch had been hailed as a moment of national pride, but it disintegrated over the Yellow Sea, earning it embarrassment as well as condemnation from a host of nations that deemed it a covert test of missile technology. In a rare move for Pyongyang, the government admitted that the rocket did not deliver a satellite, but it also pressed ahead with grandiose propaganda in praise of the ruling Kim family." The Guardian adds, "Speculation is mounting that the North will attempt to claw back some of its credibility with a third nuclear test. Recent satellite images from the site used for previous nuclear tests in 2006 and 2009 suggested plans for another underground explosion were already in place before the Unha-3 rocket broke apart and splashed into the Yellow Sea on Friday morning."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

101 comments

kaboom !!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39674553)

nukular fp !!!

Re:kaboom !!! (5, Funny)

P-niiice (1703362) | about 2 years ago | (#39674651)

A very Un-ha first post - broke up and fell into the internet.

Re:kaboom !!! (1)

AssholeMcGee (2521806) | about 2 years ago | (#39683687)

Now Kim must kill himself, due to the shame he has brought forth to his family and country. Any attempts they have made were failures so they are going to shame themselves yet again by testing another rocket, which I will surely explode in early flight.

Maybe it was shot down! (2, Interesting)

na1led (1030470) | about 2 years ago | (#39674649)

I bet a satellites in space shot this rocket down, using some form of laser. The technology has been around since the 80's, so why not?

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (5, Funny)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#39674733)

The star wars project was actually a success.  It was only deemed a failure, as to keep our enemies off guard.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39674889)

The tt tag was actually a success. It was only deemed a failure, because people thought it was supposed to be readable.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (1)

DarthVain (724186) | about 2 years ago | (#39676495)

Exactly, it is only the development that destabilizes power, once it has "failed" it is no longer a threat!

Re:Maybe.. (1)

formfeed (703859) | about 2 years ago | (#39677483)

The star wars project was actually a success. It was only deemed a failure, as to keep our enemies off guard.

Exactly the same thing with the North Korean rocket launch. Let the world laugh while the Great North Korean intergalactic spaceship is nearing completion.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (2)

MoonFog (586818) | about 2 years ago | (#39674743)

Given the Norths history of failing to actually get crap off the ground I dont really think a laser to shoot it down would be necessary. Besides, dont you think the NK rulers would be all over a story where someone shot down their missile?

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (1)

na1led (1030470) | about 2 years ago | (#39674915)

There is no way they would know if their rocket was shot down by a laser. It's also a good way to test the technology on someone who doesn't really mater anyways.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about 2 years ago | (#39675325)

You're right. I myself was wondering...have they ever actually had a successful launch of anything ever? Does anyone know?

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39677111)

It's my understanding that the Dear Leader launched the internet.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (1)

cavreader (1903280) | about 2 years ago | (#39683663)

Even thier previous nuke tests had problems. The first one failed completely and the second one did not produce the expected results common to a nuclear detonation. They could have used tons of dynamite mixed with radioactive elements to give the impression that they actually detonated a nuke.

And even if they do have a nuclear weapon they certainly don't have a delivery system unless they want to carry it or use a bomber which would just end up being great target practice for all the various air defense systems in the region. Attaching a nuclear warhead on a missile is almost as difficult as producing the warhead in the first place. The miniaturization of components, guidance systems, and denotation systems would be very difficult for a country like N. Korea to produce. They could probably produce a bomb the size of the first 2 US nuclear weapons. The world would be better off if everyone just totally ignored NK.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (5, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 2 years ago | (#39674773)

The technology has been around since the 80's, so why not?

Why waste the power and confirm that you have the ability to do so on a target that you already knew was going to be crap and fall apart or otherwise not make orbit? IN any case, Japan actually did announce beforehand that they were seriously considering shooting down the rocket/missile if it passed over Japanese territory. And, from what I understand, the other 2 previous launches by North Korea were always followed by a nuclear test ( I remember reading this, but I honestly do not remember where).

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (1)

na1led (1030470) | about 2 years ago | (#39675049)

My guess, is that North Korea will never be successful launching a big rocket, as it will mysteriously explode for no reason. Usually when something goes wrong, the rocket will veer off course, or you will see something brake apart before it explodes.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (1)

formfeed (703859) | about 2 years ago | (#39677571)

And, from what I understand, the other 2 previous launches by North Korea were always followed by a nuclear test

If you are into spelunking I would avoid freshly dug out caves in North Korea.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39679339)

Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57413634/north-korea-may-follow-up-failed-rocket-launch-with-more-provocative-nuclear-test-experts-say/

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (1)

mblase (200735) | about 2 years ago | (#39675193)

Considering the cult of ignorance North Korea has maintained among its own people for decades, this is probably exactly what the locals believe.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (2, Insightful)

cusco (717999) | about 2 years ago | (#39676557)

For this thing to fail was the **LAST** thing either Brainwashington or the Pentagram wanted. Even Americans are starting to notice that the US spends far more on its military than the entire rest of the world combined, and if they can't point at even ONE remotely-viable threat on the entire planet it's going to be increasingly difficult to justify the annual military budget increase. Already some budget items are getting moved off the books into the Black Budget, and I don't see the trend decreasing any time soon as the social programs that keep children and the elderly from starving get slashed.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39677359)

"Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin

Freudian slip? Yeah, you're an idiot.

Re:Maybe it was shot down! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39683045)

I'm sure American government will find somebody that dresses differently or worships a different God or has a resource that America wants. Then they will make sure there are lots of articles in the media going on and on about how evil those people are. After a while, the American people will go to war quite willingly.

I'd love to know how they spun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39674691)

the launch failure, does anyone have any DPRK media link with their take on the story?

Re:I'd love to know how they spun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39675043)

Unless you're in DPRK, no one can provide you a link. North Korean media has websites, but they're not actually on the Internet. The "internet" in DPRK is basically just a nationwide LAN, you can't access it from the outside (and unless you're a high ranking official you can't get out from the inside).

Re:I'd love to know how they spun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39676997)

A LAN is a single broadcast domain. It is exceedingly unlikely you'd implement a single broadcast domain an entire country. The term you're looking for is "Intranet".

Re:I'd love to know how they spun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39677247)

A LAN is a single broadcast domain.

That statement is not remotely accurate, nor has it ever been. I can (and do) have multiple broadcast domains on a single switch with a single host attached. Are you actually claiming that single switch and single host represent multiple LANs? A single broadcast domain is a subnet. There is no technical definition of a LAN.

General interest news on a tech news site? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39674719)

Why is there a flurry of general interest news on a technical news web site? N. Korea nuke tests, Treyvon Martin shooting, Rick Santorum articles. Can we get back to posting articles about technical issues, please? We can get general interest news anywhere. News and discussion about technical items and open source software and hardware is harder to come by, which is why I come here. It's what makes Slashdot appealing. If you take that away then you take away the reason to come here over, say, NPR [npr.org] 's web site.

Re:General interest news on a tech news site? (4, Informative)

GodInHell (258915) | about 2 years ago | (#39674801)

*cough* "News for nerds, stuff that matters.

That includes more than just the latest in gadgetry. Also -- Rockets and Nuclear bombs -- how is this not tech related?

-GiH

Re:General interest news on a tech news site? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39675025)

Look how many comments on the Trayvon articles. It's about getting page hits - which is about beating the living fuck out of the latest trendy horse, even if it's long since dead.

It's a business which is about page hits and ad revenues, no more a forum for nerds and tech-folk - though it used to attract many of them.

Lately the comments are approaching the wit and insight of typical youtube or foxnews comments, though. It's attracted more traffic, but driven away many of the worthwhile users.

Like any other business, it's about the money. If you can't get more users, you need more page hits. You do so by appealing to the lowest common denominator. The same as any mainstream media outlet - only here it comes off clumsy and hamfisted because the editors are fucking morons who fail at basic grammar and punctuation.

Slashdot was completely willing to alienate it's userbase, if it means upping it's stats in Google Analytics. And they've done so.

Re:General interest news on a tech news site? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39675773)

Slashdot is more of a political nerd site than a technical one these days. If you want technical news and links to articles about programming, mathematics and so forth, best to read Hacker News. Ars Technica is also great for more general technology news.

What Tech Site? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39676531)

Why is there a flurry of general interest news on a technical news web site?

Wake up man! This is not the old Slashdot family. They broke up, left town and went their separate ways for good. Taco himself moved out long ago and sold himself out to "Big Media Inc."

Some typical newbie know-nothings moved into the hollow empty old character-filled mansion and wanted to flip it for big bucks (after they saw what Ari the Greek did), so they proceeded to tear it to the ground and rebuild it into this shiny new cookie-cutter me-too site for the Internet 4.0 (tm) generation.

Look, Slashdot jumped the whole school of sharks, died, was flushed down the toilet bowl and plugged the pipes ages ago. Didn't you hear the massive flushing and plunging noises?

That's why I (5-digit UID) NEVER log in anymore - who the fuck in their right mind would want to be recognized here?

The real Slashdot died long ago This is just a web site with tons of "eyeballs" for advertisers. Mark my words: it will be flipped, destroyed, drop dead or be bought by the "twatthead.com-of-the-month " within the next 3 years.

I mean, come on - post to tittheads or fuckfacebook? You mean you can't smell the piles of horse-shit showing up everywhere?

Flag as Inappropriate? You've GOT to be kidding. The REAL Slashdot never removed a single post except once when they had their asses sued by the space-ship nutcase morons. The modding was less Draconian back then, too.

I used to have /. open in a window for 10-12 hours/day. Now I come here for maybe 3 minutes a week, just to scan the headlines and drop a snide anon remark or two. And I am seriously thinking of dropping it completely.

Time marches on ...

Re:General interest news on a tech news site? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39681485)

Gee - a new and highly 'controversial' country enters a space race - or perhaps is developing nuclear weapons.

Nope - no technology here! nothing to see - please move along to the next NASA article where you are not complaining about this.

orly? (2, Funny)

Idimmu Xul (204345) | about 2 years ago | (#39674737)

We'd better invade then, just in case.

Re:orly? (1)

GodInHell (258915) | about 2 years ago | (#39675677)

We're still at war. This can be done without congressional action. Make it so!

Re:orly? (1)

mug funky (910186) | about 2 years ago | (#39676687)

no resources... why bother? save their starving people? security for US allies in the region? naaah.

also it'd piss China off to no end.

Re:orly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39677409)

also it'd piss China off to no end.

China can suck our cock. Going to call in our debt? Sorry.. can't pay.
Going to "sell" our debt? No buyers. Smoke a dick. Kthxbye.

Re:orly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39682185)

Not to mention that we have the naval presence necessary to blockade China completely and destroy their harbors and shipyards, and the instant we stop buying, they have tens of millions of workers out of jobs, who will be able to rightfully point the finger at the government for that one. Exports halted, worker riots, and the end of fast growth all at once could signal to the Chinese people that the Communist Party "lost the mandate of heaven," and that it's time for another revolution. Cue the Republic of China across the strait...

Re:orly? (1)

GodInHell (258915) | about 2 years ago | (#39700183)

A few quick corrections:

Going to call in our debt? Sorry.. can't pay.

Can't be done. China hasn't made block-loans to the U.S. Treasury, they've purchased U.S. treasury bonds. Those bond (T-notes) are payable on specific dates. You cannot call them in early, even if you're a sovereign nation.

Going to "sell" our debt? No buyers.

There is a VERY active market for treasuries. If China decides to dump them, they will take a bath and the value of U.S. treasuries will drop with it (that will make it hard for the U.S. Gov't to sell new bonds without offering a better rate of return) . . . but I'd buy those babies, Treasuries pay out when due.

-GiH

Re:orly? (1)

formfeed (703859) | about 2 years ago | (#39677509)

We're still at war. This can be done without congressional action. Make it so!

It was a police action.

Sigh (4, Interesting)

Intrepid imaginaut (1970940) | about 2 years ago | (#39674745)

Really at this stage its gone well beyond a joke. I have friends in Japan who were quite worried about this, to say nothing of the sheer evil of the regime itself. Maybe its time to bite the bullet and just cut off food aid to North Korea so they are forced to reduce the size of their army and actually feed their own people? Or would Kim go for a full on invasion of the South in reality?

Re:Sigh (4, Informative)

ATestR (1060586) | about 2 years ago | (#39674867)

forced to reduce the size of their army and actually feed their own people

Don't think that it would have this effect... NK has been generally starving the people for decades in favor of military might.

Re:Sigh (1)

dunezone (899268) | about 2 years ago | (#39676145)

Don't think that it would have this effect... NK has been generally starving the people for decades in favor of military might.

More then likely the food that is given to them goes directly to the military. If you cut off the food then the military starves as well as the people. Depending on how loyal the military is, once people with weapons start to starve crazy things can happen. Its one thing to be dealing with an angry person, its a whole another level when they're angry and hungry.

Re:Sigh (4, Insightful)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#39677737)

Keep in mind that you're talking about the country with universal conscription that can last up to 10 years - about 20% of the entire adult male population is in the military. Every male citizen would have served there, and most would have kids serving. So there's no clear dividing boundary between army and civilians.

Re:Sigh (2)

manaway (53637) | about 2 years ago | (#39678003)

NK is not alone in funding a military industrial complex instead of providing people with the basics of a good life .

Re:Sigh (3, Interesting)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 2 years ago | (#39674925)

Maybe its time to bite the bullet and just cut off food aid to North Korea so they are forced to reduce the size of their army and actually feed their own people? Or would Kim go for a full on invasion of the South in reality?

He would probably just let his people die. The problem is, if we did cut off the food aid to North Korea, the government would use that as an internal propaganda tool by saying we were trying to kill off everyone, or something. The sad thing is that most North Koreans would probably believe it, because they have been isolated and indoctrinated for so long. North Korea is really like the old lady with all the cats that lives a few doors down from you. She's crazy as hell, but basically harmless. On top of that, no sane, rational person would want the deaths of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of innocent people from starvation (and if you read stories, most of them are on the brink of starvation already) on their conscience. It really is sad when governments hold their own people as hostages just so they can stay in power.

Re:Sigh (1)

poity (465672) | about 2 years ago | (#39676589)

She's crazy as hell, but basically harmless.

Well, not if you care about cats. Or if you are a cat.

Re:Sigh (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 2 years ago | (#39676703)

She's crazy as hell, but basically harmless.

Well, not if you care about cats. Or if you are a cat.

Good thing neither of those apply to me :)

Re:Sigh (2)

Paul Slocum (598127) | about 2 years ago | (#39677349)

harmless

How is 1 - 3.5 million dead from starvation harmless? Here's [wikipedia.org] what happens when you starve to death.

Re:Sigh (1)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 2 years ago | (#39677485)

Notice I already talked about how North Korean citizens are on the verge of starvation? When I said harmless I was obviously talking in an international sense. The only think outside the borders of North Korea that they can legitimately threaten is the global level of cognac purchases. And even that has probably gone down now that Kim Jong Il is dead. Reading comprehension, dude. It's important.

Re:Sigh (1)

Hentes (2461350) | about 2 years ago | (#39678863)

North Korea is really like the old lady that lives a few doors down from you with all the cats AND A NUCLEAR ROCKET.

FTFY

Re:Sigh (1)

MiniMike (234881) | about 2 years ago | (#39675515)

They would probably just increase their already massive weapons export business [bloomberg.com] to compensate. Maybe we ought to be paying attention to stopping that. They have also allegedly been caught selling donated food, but I can't find a link to that on a legitimate website. If anything maybe we should increase the food donations to a level that embarrasses the North Korean govt. Like saying "We can afford to feed your entire mismanaged starving country from our extras, in your face (literally and figuratively)". Make sure the people know where the food is from. Allow nothing else in or out of the country. Their leaders would lose face, lose funding for the army, and nobody would starve (ok, maybe only in my world).

Re:Sigh (5, Insightful)

DrgnDancer (137700) | about 2 years ago | (#39675621)

CNN had a fairly coherent opinion piece on the question of why no one wants to piss of North Korea any further despite obvious provocation (this rocket launch isn't the first, nor even the worst provocation they've performed). Basically the guy's point boiled down to a three tier deterrent used by North Korea's government to make them immune from serious attack:

1) They're fricken nuts. No one knows exactly how nuts they are, and no one particularly wants to find out. Even by the standards of repressive totalitarian regimes, the North Koreans are in a class by themselves. Most of South Korea, and all of Seoul is in range of North Korean artillery. It's widely accepted that unless China were willing to engage in open war in support of the North (unlikely), they'd be pounded into dog meat in short order by combined US, South Korean, and (probably) Japanese troops. That won't stop them from shelling Seoul, possibly with chemical weapons, and maybe hitting Tokyo with some medium range missiles before they go down. They're willing to let their own people starve to death in mass numbers to keep themselves in power, they sure aren't going to be concerned about "enemy" civilians.

2) No one wants to deal with the repercussions. Assuming we (for a value of "we" intended to mean the US and some portion of our Asian allies) go in, wipe the floor with the North Korean Army, and they don't manage to do to terribly much damage to Seoul in the process... then we have North Korea? Yay? The country is more or less without any infrastructure. A good portion of the population is starving. They're mostly brainwashed. The only thing that's had any resources at all dedicated to it in the last 50 years is the military we just presumably smashed... The quagmire's in Iraq and Afghanistan will seem like positive fun times in comparison. As the author put is (I'm paraphrasing), "You're looking at a generation worth of South Korean time and treasure just to get the place to where it could be functional". Nobody wants to deal with that.

3) They have nukes. See also (1) & (2). No one knows if they're crazy enough to use the nukes as a last ditch "take the world down with us" strategy, and no one has any idea how many there are or where. When the inevitable chaos of (2) starts, any nukes not flung at Seoul as a last spit in the eye have a high potential to become rogue. Not a pretty picture.

I can't seem to find the article now, which is a bit annoying, but it seems to be pretty well thought out. The typical reason for doing nothing about North Korea is China, but honestly at this point I don't think even the Chinese really like them. They'd just rather have a broke and desperate North on their border than a unified and strong Korea.

Re:Sigh (1)

HBI (604924) | about 2 years ago | (#39676109)

Despite the lack of link, this is congruent with all discussions about the matter i've ever had. No one wants to deal with the mess. That's why the NKs get away with what they do. The problem is when you think longer term, the idea that the regime won't last is wishful thinking, and their capabilities just keep getting larger in the WMD sphere. Doing something about them later is going to be even more painful than doing it now.

Re:Sigh (1)

sosume (680416) | about 2 years ago | (#39676163)

My hope is that China, which is modernizing rapidly, will soon come to the conclusion that supporting the regime in Pyongyang harms China's global image. When that day comes, this will all be over quickly and without much bloodshed. Perhaps they can offer exile to the current leaders.

Re:Sigh (3, Insightful)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about 2 years ago | (#39676529)

I doubt China would ever do that. Consider this analogy: think of the international community as a night club, and China is going in there looking to get picked up by someone. Now, China isn't the best looking person out there, but China is ok. So they bring along North Korea, their ugly friend. Suddenly China looks a lot better, and is much more easily accepted by everyone there. Now, to break the analogy, as long as North Korea stays, well, North Korea, China has someone they can always point to and be like "hey, look, we're not as bad as them" as well as always have a way to garner some good will; "hey, we just sent them a whole bunch of food and medical supplies, see how nice we are?"

Re:Sigh (3, Interesting)

hedley (8715) | about 2 years ago | (#39677961)

I was chatting with a mainland Chinese fellow the other day and he said that China keeps them as a friend because they piss of the US. That is useful to China. So, as long as China keeps DPRK's actions to their palatable threshold, China is OK with it. Esp, if the US is unhappy.

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39678735)

Remember that "modernizing" is relative when you have a society that hands out death sentences simply so they can harvest organs from the "just shot through the heart and still twitching" near corpse and goes out of their way to do so especially with regards to ethnic minorities (Uigurs especially) and "political prisoners". Some poor kid in his 20s will be arrested and sent through a kangaroo court; if his blood type is correct (especially if there are rich or Party officials in need of transplants) he'll be given a death sentence as a "revolutionary, separatist, terrorist et al", injected with an anticoagulant before his death is carried out, and basically vivisected without anesthesia. Before the Beijing Olympics this became a convenient process to get the poor, non-Han, and other unfortunates out of their hovels. It doesn't matter how many tall buildings or high-tech sweatshops are built, China is a nation of institutionalized barbarism wrapped in nationalist "We are the first man of Han and we're always right" justification.

Re:Sigh (1)

Chibi (232518) | about 2 years ago | (#39676631)

For those who do not know, Seoul and Pyongyang are actually quite close to each other. They are 120.90 miles/194.56 Kilometers apart. If a major war were to ever happen, the damage to Seoul would be pretty staggering.

Re:Sigh (1)

jafac (1449) | about 2 years ago | (#39677231)

So, the alternative, is waiting until they get nukes, and then REALLY being forced to deal with them. Sounds like a great plan.

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39677581)

Or waiting for unknown possibilities that may come around? It's not a given that they will go bat-shit crazy eventually and destroy the world or part of it. It's just what we see as a high probability scenario. I admit, I doubt we'll see the population revolt as the indoctrination is too strong, but maybe something that we can't think of will come around eventually.

Either way, I don't think the west can come in gun blazing. From what I read and saw(documentaries, tv, etc) of people living in North Korea, they are born and told how evil the west is. The west is the devil and most likely blamed for all the problems they have. I can't help but think that they must see themselves as Fremen versus the evil Harkonnen of the west. Just think how any soldiers on the allied front would feel about having to fight a whole civilian population given guns and willing to use them against the west, including kids.

Re:Sigh (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 2 years ago | (#39680511)

1) They're fricken nuts.

Not really. They have a cult of personality, but it is only maintained by internal politics and not any kind of genuine brainwashing at the upper levels. That is why the current Kim is having to consolidate his power somewhat - it isn't completely automatic.

Plus NK is not gripped by religious fundamentalism. Suicide in the name of God and an afterlife filled with virgin pussy isn't their motivation. They won't start WW3 because the leaderships knows they will all die.

2) No one wants to deal with the repercussions.

South Korea has shown itself to be willing in the past. The US would also love a foothold in the Far East as it "pivots" towards China. Plus even though Iraq turned out to be a to be a disaster for Iraq, it did make US companies piles of cash.

3) They have nukes. See also (1) & (2). No one knows if they're crazy enough to use the nukes as a last ditch "take the world down with us" strategy

Presumably they are, otherwise what is the point of having them? The whole point of MAD is you retaliate, in fact you make sure there is no way to prevent the retaliation (e.g. if the President dies the missiles can still launch). I imagine NK must have a similar system in place.

Re:Sigh (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 2 years ago | (#39682665)

but honestly at this point I don't think even the Chinese really like them

They don't. The Chinese were blamed for a failed coup in North Korea some decades back which led to the border being almost completely closed since. There is a huge North Korean refugee population in China. The situation appears to be that North Korea just hate China a little bit less than everyone else and that China will trade with anybody (especially since they sell oil to North Korea at a huge markup).
China doesn't want millions of starving xenophobes that worship a dead revolutionary as a God and they also don't want the chance of going in from the North and running into US and South Koreans coming in from the South and escalating the situation even more. A Chinese Korean from just over the border (in China) told me a lot of people there think about the only way to deal with North Korea is to wait until the wind shifts the right way, nuke every inch of it, and pretend it never existed - and that's from someone that might have relatives lost in there somewhere. Of course that is also insane but any proposed solution imposed from outside would involve a lot of death and problems extending beyond a generation to any nation that attempted to impose it as well as North Koreans. The place is an isolated basket case even compared to Afganistan.

Re:Sigh (3, Funny)

phantomfive (622387) | about 2 years ago | (#39676089)

Really at this stage its gone well beyond a joke.

It was never a joke. Many people have died. It's dead serious.

Which isn't to say we can't laugh about it. Though any joke I can think of will fall as flat as a North Korean rocket.

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39676335)

This shouldn't just apply to North Korea. Why would anyone, live anywhere, where they do not have sufficient food resources for the local population? The human population needs to under go some (typically natural) load balancing. Yet another side affect of cheap oil/rapid transport induced "free trade."

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39680041)

Were you dropped?

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39681529)

This shouldn't just apply to North Korea. Why would anyone, live anywhere, where they do not have sufficient food resources for the local population? The human population needs to under go some (typically natural) load balancing. Yet another side affect of cheap oil/rapid transport induced "free trade."

Were you dropped?

Were you? Ask yourself: Would I like to move to Egypt? Would I like to move to North Korea?What would your answer be? Likely it would be no, for various reasons, including their lack of ability to feed their nation. So what then should the people do when living under the rule of a government without the ability to feed its peoples? Under normal circumstances the obvious answer is to move. Humans for a long time have had shelter and food as their two primary concerns. How, in this day and age, would people not thus want those two things first and then whatever other goals they have for themselves next. If a government such as that in North Korea cannot help provide those two things why should it continue to exist? Why should its people not be able to overthrow it?

Distraction Technique (0)

Caratted (806506) | about 2 years ago | (#39674783)

I've oft thought that if I were to rob a bank, I would first engineer a massive explosion around some densely populated area on the other side of town, a few minutes beforehand.

Re:Distraction Technique (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 2 years ago | (#39680859)

You think too small. Leave toy robots and lite-brites with Mooninite artwork on them around the city.

No risk in the backyard?! (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | about 2 years ago | (#39674795)

Why test in the backyard? Even if it involves a risk (www.google.com/search?q=underground+test+nuclear+risk+assessment)?

I guess that given that NK is a small country I can understand their willingness to do it in the backyard and that they have come to the conclusion it must be a fairly low risk.

But, still? What if they screw up like they did with their rocket?

Re:No risk in the backyard?! (1)

bistromath007 (1253428) | about 2 years ago | (#39676137)

They don't need to be concerned with their backyard. They're doing this right at the border during dust season. This basically comstitutes a major attack on South Korea and Japan.

So is there anything that might be recoverable? (1)

kimgkimg (957949) | about 2 years ago | (#39674843)

Any chance we could locate and recover anything? I think the capsule would be of particular interest...

Re:So is there anything that might be recoverable? (4, Interesting)

ShooterNeo (555040) | about 2 years ago | (#39675155)

How so? It's not like there would be anything new to learn. More than likely, the capsule was a poorly designed, cobbled together collection of components, with most of the designs stolen imperfectly from russian and chinese sources. Maybe U.S. sources.

The point is, a great artist isn't going to learn anything by going to a kindergarden art class and watching 6 year olds scribble with crayons. Nor are the engineers at Lockheed Martin likely to learn much, either.

As for the purpose of the capsule : obviously it's intended to deliver a nuclear bomb. Again, nothing new there. Obviously once the North Koreans have such a capability, they won't have to worry about being invaded.

Re:So is there anything that might be recoverable? (1)

kimgkimg (957949) | about 2 years ago | (#39675413)

Well really to see if there was in fact a functioning "satellite" loaded.

Re:So is there anything that might be recoverable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39675605)

How so? It's not like there would be anything new to learn. More than likely, the capsule was a poorly designed, cobbled together collection of components, with most of the designs stolen imperfectly from russian and chinese sources. Maybe U.S. sources.

The point is, a great artist isn't going to learn anything by going to a kindergarden art class and watching 6 year olds scribble with crayons. Nor are the engineers at Lockheed Martin likely to learn much, either.

As for the purpose of the capsule : obviously it's intended to deliver a nuclear bomb. Again, nothing new there. Obviously once the North Koreans have such a capability, they won't have to worry about being invaded.

I'd like to say I lean towards your beliefs that NK is working on a bomb delivery device of some sort. That said, do you have a source for all of your statements that include the word "obviously"? I feel that major media has a role to play in the dissemination of information. so whatever information the public gets can be really whatever. I intentionally leave this open to interpretation.

Also, I think there'd be something important to learn. Individuals could study the components to see how far technologically the NK has come. Are they really copying from Russian and Chinese sources? Or is it really some Middle East country that has had access to (downed) weapons? Or, did NK fire off their rocket intending for it to fail (i.e., a just-functioning-but-really-a-dummy rocket), so to distract from their real intent (if there is one)? Whatever the answer, it gives the rest of the world a clue.

Re:So is there anything that might be recoverable? (1)

ShooterNeo (555040) | about 2 years ago | (#39677449)

The obvious comes from a simple analysis of motives. Imagine you are the leader of the North Koreans. Life is pretty good (for you). But you're among one of the few remaining world dictators in a country that is civilized. (obviously, a lawless wasteland like many of the African countries hardly counts)

You're well aware that the West has put an end to your compatriots, through invasions by force or with mass media. How do you ensure your security?

The answer couldn't be any more obvious. If you had just ONE functioning nuclear warhead, and a credible delivery vehicle, you could make a credible threat sufficient to ensure that no world power would EVER invade you. No one is going to risk an attack if there's even a 10% chance that your weapon would work and kill a million people.

Re:So is there anything that might be recoverable? (1)

Spykk (823586) | about 2 years ago | (#39681095)

The point is, a great artist isn't going to learn anything by going to a kindergarden art class and watching 6 year olds scribble with crayons.

Well, unless you count modern art.

Re:So is there anything that might be recoverable? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39681583)

Riight.. because we don't have any interest in the state of their technology, and you couldn't ascertain anything by dissecting their most advanced works

The 'great artist' in kindergarden would likely learn quite a bit about the childrens scribbling skills.

You sir, are a dolt.

NK fessed up? (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#39674871)

I found that to be bigger news then the actual failure.

I could interpret this action that North Korea want to get out of its cycle, but it needs to slowly get its citizens to think for themselves. By having the government admit that they could fail, can spark the idea to the public that they don't have to blindly trust the government. 

Why the need to save face. . (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39675021)

This KIM grandpa rode on a giant whale and killed giant sea squid , he was also born on top of a mountain protected by a magic bird and there was 100`s of rainbows in the sky when he was born .

Thats pretty fucking amazing if u ask me , a nuclear test every nation in the world can do it ,

pffff move along theres nothing to see.. . .

We need an updated Berlin Airlift (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39675213)

Except this time we drop the food in directly to the people on little parachutes (of course the North would claim that it's poisoned or some such) and continue doing so until it's accepted / acceptable, then mix in a bunch of Liberator pistols in childproof boxes.

The U.S. really should've kept those 'stead of dumping them into the Pacific Ocean --- warehoused them and warned dictators that they'd be airdropped to their people when deemed necessary.

woo-hoo, damn the checklists, do it now! (1)

swschrad (312009) | about 2 years ago | (#39675521)

bad enough they play rocketeer before they have worked out their controls. we know they've been setting up for another nuke fizzle with assets watching them mess about their underground test site for months.

to jump boldly ahead with another fizzle ahead of schedule to try and save face... well, shall we say, unpredictable results shall ensue. this time they might have an explosion before they get the bomb out of the handcart.

best way to kick them in the balls now (1)

bitt3n (941736) | about 2 years ago | (#39675609)

would be for the US to actually go ahead and give them the food aid they threatened to withhold if NK launched a satellite

On the plus side (1)

BigSlowTarget (325940) | about 2 years ago | (#39676297)

At least they don't have rocket scientists any more. I doubt any of them survived the rocket explosion by more than an hour.

Why underground? (1)

Danathar (267989) | about 2 years ago | (#39676411)

If they are doing stuff to stick their middle finger up at the world and feel great I'd do an above the ground test. It's FAR more impressive.

yes..radiation, destruction, etc are are a problem. But just sayin if you are going for something to be impressive the above ground test is better than watching a massive sinkhole get made in a moments notice.

You F4il it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39676511)

design approach. As And shouting that there are real problems FreeBSD project, Baby take. my hot on the heels of

Credibility (2)

subreality (157447) | about 2 years ago | (#39676853)

attempt to claw back some of its credibility with a third nuclear test

Perhaps domestically, but internationally they can claw back some credibility by not having a third nuclear test.

The ball's in your court, Jong-un. Your father burned all his credibility, but you have an excellent opportunity. Don't waste it trying to show off.

Re:Credibility (1)

Hentes (2461350) | about 2 years ago | (#39678967)

They don't want to be considered credible they want to instill fear for their extortions to work.

Great plan (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 2 years ago | (#39677921)

Yeah, that's smart. After you fail on a well tought rocket test, you simply rush a nuclear test so that people will forget the first one. Bonus point if all your well tought nuclear tests also failed up to now. Don't worry, this time things will work out ok, there is no pression or anything.

Ok, I can belive they are planning that. If their leader have a bad idea, it will come through execution anyway... But it isn't an automatic thing like the summary implies.

Harder than it looks (1)

gelfling (6534) | about 2 years ago | (#39677941)

Sure on paper it sounds like all you need to do is take a late 1950's early 1960's edition Chinese CSS-2 Scud variant and bolt a second stage made out of another Scud-C on top of that and then build another rocket, a smaller one, using a Chinese SRB and bolt that atop your ghetto rigged second stage. But in practice getting all that stuff to work right in your poor broken down slave society driven by terror is a lot harder.

Experts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39678117)

Please name the ALLEGED experts.

Yours In Minsk,
K. Trout, C.I.O.

One less... (1)

Aphrika (756248) | about 2 years ago | (#39678183)

...nuke to lob at someone. Seriously, this is why nuclear technician isn't up there with brain surgeon and rocket scientist.

Funny! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39678385)

So, they don't have the ability to attack anybody else because their rockets / missiles don't work, but they have the ability to blow themselves to bits.

I don't feel threatened by that.

Laser Satellite (1)

AnotherAnonymousUser (972204) | about 2 years ago | (#39679739)

There's joking talk on the comments today of the laser missile shield taking this down. Joking aside, as a technical question: assuming they could/did shoot at the missile, I'm curious - is there a signature people would be able to detect a laser with?

No rocket, no problem! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39681391)

North Korea intends nuclear test to show that even though they can't blow anybody else up, they could still explode themselves if they wanted to. Glory to the great nation!

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...