Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Software Engineers Remain Top US Job

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the back-to-back-champs dept.

Businesses 140

D H NG writes "In a study by Careercast.com, software engineers retain their position as having the top jobs in 2012. The #1 and #2 positions remain the same from last year. One surprise entry was human resources manager in the #3 position. The worst job was lumberjack, beating out last year's roustabout."

cancel ×

140 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

they got one thing right! (1)

sribe (304414) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686239)

The worst job was lumberjack...

I own some mountain property. Beetles, fire danger, blah, blah, blah. I play lumberjack a couple of weeks a year, and it is hell what it does to your body!

Re:they got one thing right! (4, Funny)

azalin (67640) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686335)

Wonderful, now I got the Monty Pythons song stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

Re:they got one thing right! (1)

sribe (304414) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686909)

Wonderful, now I got the Monty Pythons song stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

Now imagine having it stuck in your head for 2 weeks. And your SO singing it to you when you come inside ;-)

Re:they got one thing right! (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687725)

They need an "OUCH" mod

Re:they got one thing right! (0)

Dogbertius (1333565) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687961)

And your SO singing it to you when you come inside [sic] (-)

I see what you did there.

Re:they got one thing right! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39689343)

And I'm okay with that.

Re:they got one thing right! (4, Insightful)

u38cg (607297) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686929)

Hmm. I work as #2 on the list, and all I can say is that when the list went round the office the methodology was rather robustly challenged :p

This is just a PR stunt from some careers website. I wouldn't get overexcited about it.

Re:they got one thing right! (2)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688445)

4 Dental Hygienist

Rly? I suppose its a great job for people who like to talk a lot without being interrupted.

Re:they got one thing right! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39688553)

They do get to use lasers these days...

Re:they got one thing right! (1)

justin12345 (846440) | more than 2 years ago | (#39689451)

I have a feeling that the study's methodology might have involved cold-calling a lot of HR reps. That would explain "HR Manager" being #3. Who wouldn't prefer to be their boss?

Re:they got one thing right! (1)

JoeMerchant (803320) | more than 2 years ago | (#39689475)

The worst job was lumberjack...

I own some mountain property. Beetles, fire danger, blah, blah, blah. I play lumberjack a couple of weeks a year, and it is hell what it does to your body!

Chainsaws are fun, as long as you can walk away when you've had enough.

toot my own horn dept... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686243)

From the "toot my own horn dept"

Lumberjacks (4, Funny)

SchMoops (2019810) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686297)

I don't know about that worst job. I mean, I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.

Re:Lumberjacks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686307)

not that kind of lumber jack !

Re:Lumberjacks (3, Insightful)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686427)

I don't know about that worst job. I mean, I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK.

Yeah, I thought I saw you in a bar last weekend.

Re:Lumberjacks (1)

flyneye (84093) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686541)

Some would say Circus Geek . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_show [wikipedia.org]
So now it would be considerate to call them Circus engineers.

Here is a more in depth look, with a bit included from Harry Anderson. http://whatellenknows.hubpages.com/hub/Its-All-GEEK-to-Me-Analysis-of-the-Sideshow-Geek [hubpages.com]

Party on!

Re:Lumberjacks (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686977)

He's a lumberjack, and he's OK. He works all night, and he sleeps all day!

Re:Lumberjacks (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686985)

Beats the hell out of software development, too. I mean, at least you get to sleep all night.

Re:Lumberjacks (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687195)

and he gets to skip and jump, and wear high heels, suspenders and a bra

Re:Lumberjacks (2)

tomhath (637240) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687537)

Not suspenders. Suspendies, i.e. a garter belt.

In other news... (2)

DataDiddler (1994180) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686299)

... sys admins, DBAs, and network engineers have it so bad that they cannot even be mentioned by these types of surveys, apparently.

Re:In other news... (1)

TheLink (130905) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686461)

FWIW, Web Developer is lower on the list at #15 and Computer Programmer is #34 on the next page.

Whereas the article says a Software Engineer "Researches, designs, develops and maintains software systems along with hardware development for medical, scientific, and industrial purposes".

My thoughts on this (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686327)

The article specifically mentions being a software engineer at a startup or startup like environment is a great job to have, because you get to sit in cafes with your macbook air all day.

As a software engineer at a startup, I understand that sentiment. I do have a lot of flexibility. I can work from anywhere, come in at any time, leave at any time. The work I do is fun, and considering that there the management hierarchy is essentially flat, I get to make important customer facing decisions AND implement them.

There is a big downside to this. There is a very high risk when you work into startups. You could be rolling in success one month, and the next month you could be forced to shutdown. TFA and most comments on startups looking inside out, don't often write about the stress that comes with this kind of risk. And you know what? We have a lot of fun, but we have plenty of 60 hour weeks too, when shit hits the fan.

Re:My thoughts on this (2)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686469)

The article specifically mentions being a software engineer at a startup or startup like environment is a great job to have, because you get to sit in cafes with your macbook air all day.

As a software engineer at a startup, I understand that sentiment. I do have a lot of flexibility. I can work from anywhere, come in at any time, leave at any time. The work I do is fun, and considering that there the management hierarchy is essentially flat, I get to make important customer facing decisions AND implement them.

There is a big downside to this. There is a very high risk when you work into startups. You could be rolling in success one month, and the next month you could be forced to shutdown. TFA and most comments on startups looking inside out, don't often write about the stress that comes with this kind of risk. And you know what? We have a lot of fun, but we have plenty of 60 hour weeks too, when shit hits the fan.

I miss the days when my workweeks were only 60 hours...

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686485)

i work 65 a week every week for 8 bucks an hour with 2 B.S.'s from an ivy league school. shut the fuck up

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686513)

Wow, what do you do for a living?

Re:My thoughts on this (4, Funny)

voidphoenix (710468) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686685)

Maybe he's a lumberjack's assistant?

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686769)

Probably retail, fast food, or telemarketing since there's no market for those degrees he was assured would provide him/her a good career!

This economy sux.

Re:My thoughts on this (1)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688463)

i work 65 a week every week for 8 bucks an hour with 2 B.S.'s from an ivy league school. shut the fuck up

Wow, what do you do for a living?

Proofreading.

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686553)

That's sad

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686703)

I work 40 hours a week for $23.50 an hour with no degrees. I'm an Microsoft Certified Information Technology Specialist at an IT service provider.

And I'm a pothead and alcoholic. I think you might have fucked up at some point in life.

Re:My thoughts on this (1)

luis_a_espinal (1810296) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688641)

I work 40 hours a week for $23.50 an hour with no degrees. I'm an Microsoft Certified Information Technology Specialist at an IT service provider.

And I'm a pothead and alcoholic. I think you might have fucked up at some point in life.

And if you had a degree, you would be making $35.25 an hour (that's around $25K extra a year)... for starters. Put 8-10 years of good work, and you could be making a $100K+ a year (and that is not the ceiling.) Props to anyone that can make a good living with or without a college degree, but it is worth nothing that there is typically a price to pay in terms of lost salary when you are not equipped with one.

On another note, I call bs on the AC claiming to have two degrees from an Ivy League college and making $8/hour. That's what you make flipping burgers (btw, I used to flip burgers when in college, back in the days when the minimum wage was $4, so this is not a jab on people working behind the grill, just a statement of fact to get some perspective.)

Even in this economy, a college degree, even if it is one that doesn't get you a job in the field of study, it opens doors for, say, administrative assistant jobs, loan processors, clerical work, things like that that can pay from $15/hr (about $31K/year) to $18/hr ($37K/year)... and sometimes $40K and more as one climbs up the office ladder.

Either that or a college education (be a AA or a BA/BS) should provide the person with analytic skills to reinvent herself and start a business. Not that I'm saying these analytic skills cannot be seen in people without a formal college education. However, I say that they are the most precious thing one should get out of a college education.

To have not one, but two college degrees and be stuck at a 60 hr/week at $8/hr, that's bullshit. If it is real, then it is either complete stupidity or some very terrible personal circumstances, the type that makes such a case an anomaly that does not represent the status quo.

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686747)

So what? Absent of context, your statement means nothing. For instance, I'd happily work those hours for that pay if my job description was "condom tester for vivid entertainment".

Wait, that might be a real job... --checks want ads--

Re:My thoughts on this (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687013)

And having attended such a lofty institution of higher learning, pray tell us what you majored in.

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687085)

I thought I was underemployed as a CNC machinist (program, set-up, and operate, not just a button-pusher), with two B.S.es from a good local university at $15/hr, but I work ~60 by choice (time-and-a-half is cool, but Sundays are double-time, fuck yeah!)

Then again, my degrees are in engineering, not lumberjackery, so I guess it sucks for you. I'll remember to say "hi" next time I swing by Wendy's, ok?

Re:My thoughts on this (1)

rubycodez (864176) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687203)

now you know why they call it BS. MS is More of Same, PhD, Piled higher and Deeper

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687497)

i work 65 a week every week for 8 bucks an hour with 2 B.S.'s from an ivy league school. shut the fuck up

Dude, you must have royally fucked up. I grew up in utter poverty, was at times homeless as a child, ran away from home, dropped out of HS, have no degree and I now make 200K/yr as a software engineer. If only I could have gone to an Ivy League school -- I could have had class; I could have been a contender; I could have been somebody!

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39689375)

"with 2 B.S.'s from an ivy league school."

That's your problem: Too much BS.

Re:My thoughts on this (4, Informative)

TheLink (130905) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686521)

Your job title might say "Software Engineer" but are you really one as defined by the survey?

From the first page of the article it says a Software Engineer "Researches, designs, develops and maintains software systems along with hardware development for medical, scientific, and industrial purposes."

If you're a Computer Systems Analyst
it's #9 on the list, Web Developer you're #15, if you're a Computer Programmer it's #34. So which category do you really fall in?

Re:My thoughts on this (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686597)

Ha ha! At startups (and I assume most big companies too), there are no such demarcations. If I take the definitions that they specified, the time spent in each role in descending order would be "Software developer" > "Computer programmer" > "Computer analyst" >> "Web developer".

That could change any time, but some people are better in certain fields than others.

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686761)

Software Developer doesn't even make #200 on the list.

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687579)

Exactly right. One company calls every software engineer a "Software Developer", in another company it's "Vice President". It's what you do and what you are responsible for that matters.

Re:My thoughts on this (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686671)

I agree. They also don't mention that the pay at startups isn't always great. The potential payout can be great, but the actual pay is often on the lower end of the scale.

Still, I love working for startups and small companies, so much less BS to deal with.

Re:My thoughts on this (3, Insightful)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687057)

Did they mention that part of the reason you are in the cafe isn't for the atmosphere, but because the logistics involved in transporting that much caffeine and sugar to the office are untenable? How about the part where you begin cutting the caffeine with nicotine and other stimulants as you try to make a product deadline?

Let's be honest: it appears a romantic job, being able to do what you want, having no dress code, and still being paid. But reality dictates that if it were easy, there'd be more Software Engineers than there are.

Re:My thoughts on this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39689501)

Somebody in the comments was whining about CEOs, which they roundly deserve, but CEOs do not have a low stress position - they have to make the appearance of being overworked all the time... you can't be a CEO and just loaf about, you've got to make your recreation time look hard core [racingsportscars.com] , if you want to keep that uber-shark cred.

I'm a lumberjack.. (2)

Dynamoo (527749) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686345)

..and I'm OK.

Sorry.

Re:I'm a lumberjack.. (1)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686477)

..and I'm OK.

Sorry.

Well given your predeliction for wearing women's garments, it's no surprise that your career choice isn't faring well in the US. Perhaps you should move to a more enlightened country?

Lumberjack?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686357)

Being a lumberjack [youtube.com] is ok!

lol (3, Funny)

Black Parrot (19622) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686419)

It's not all lattes and coding in pajamas, though. If there's a glitch in a program's codes, Mr. Hilkert might be up past midnight searching for solutions.

Oh, the Humanity! Up past midnight looking for a bug in a program!

Re:lol (1)

davek (18465) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686767)

It's not all lattes and coding in pajamas, though. If there's a glitch in a program's codes, Mr. Hilkert might be up past midnight searching for solutions.

Oh, the Humanity! Up past midnight looking for a bug in a program!

I'm an engineer and I'm OK...
I work all night, and I sleep all day.

Re:lol (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687087)

Indeed. It's more along the lines of "the product was supposed to enter QA a week ago, the client is harassing your product manager, and it's been a week of hell, during which you slept for 6 hours every other day." And sleep doesn't come easy, as you have trouble resting when your mind is throwing up new possibilities, trying to explain that bug and how to fix it.

Re:lol (1)

jon3k (691256) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688729)

We call those First World Problems [youtube.com] .

To be perfectly honest... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686447)

Human Resources Manager wouldn't be a bad job if the pay wasn't so insulting. Outsourcing you overpaid, egotistical shits? Hell yes.

Not sure how it ended up at #3, won't bother reading the article to find out.

High School Course in Software (4, Insightful)

wdhowellsr (530924) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686463)

I started programming in High School thirty years ago and yes it was GW-Basic but it was programming. There is such a high demand for developers that companies are starting to hire junior developers with two years experience in .Net and C#. We need to start offering programming as an elective in all US schools, even it it is just html, javascript and css as a starter.

You start teaching High School freshman using Microsofts Express software, by their Junior year they will be interning at Fortune 500 companies and very likely will start working at graduation. Depending on their abilities and especially if they are a natural programmer, there is no limit on what they can make.

This should also be true for any other language currently being used in the business world.

"How do you know if you've never tried it?"

Re:High School Course in Software (1)

broken_chaos (1188549) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686755)

The emphasis on training (not learning) what businesses want and being replaceable cogs in the machine was something that drove me away, very quickly, from software engineering.

Re:High School Course in Software (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687331)

The emphasis on training (not learning) what businesses want and being replaceable cogs in the machine was something that drove me away, very quickly, from software engineering.

Actually, that whole "replaceable cog in the machine" thing is every job and every business. Human resources are no different from fleet vehicles, computers, printers, or any other commodity a business needs to operate. They try to acquire what they need as cheaply as possible, maintain them as long as they are useful, and dispose of them as economically as possible when they are no longer needed.

You can be upset by this or you can accept it as business reality; that's the choice you get to make.

I accept it. I also use turnabout is fair play. I want money, to increase my skills, and to work with nice people. So I acquire a job with as little effort as possible. I maintain my work ethic as long as I'm being paid, my skills grow, and the people aren't toxic. Then I leave the job as quickly as possible after a paycut, training opportunites stop, or the people become toxic.

Re:High School Course in Software (1)

drkstr1 (2072368) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688451)

The emphasis on training (not learning) what businesses want and being replaceable cogs in the machine was something that drove me away, very quickly, from software engineering.

You must not be talking about actual "software engineering." Software engineers are most certainly not replaceable cogs. They are hired specifically for their critical thinking and ability to solve new problems. I personally spent a great deal of effort trying to recruit and retain a talented software engineer to manage the "cogs".

Re:High School Course in Software (1)

Ryanrule (1657199) | more than 2 years ago | (#39689485)

"There is such a high demand for developers that companies are starting to hire junior developers with two years experience in .Net and C#." You mean a demand for devs who will work for 45k a year?

BS, but look at the definition (2)

PJ6 (1151747) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686497)

I've seen so many clucterf***s in software development that I called BS, but here's their definition of Software Engineer -

Researches, designs, develops and maintains software systems along with hardware development for medical, scientific, and industrial purposes.

Guess that's different. It's quite narrow. Maybe the rating is actually accurate for that niche. But the rest of the industry? Not a chance.

Re:BS, but look at the definition (4, Informative)

dkf (304284) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686817)

I've seen so many clucterf***s in software development that I called BS, but here's their definition of Software Engineer -

Researches, designs, develops and maintains software systems along with hardware development for medical, scientific, and industrial purposes.

Guess that's different. It's quite narrow. Maybe the rating is actually accurate for that niche. But the rest of the industry? Not a chance.

That's what a real SE does. The rest? Well, they're either called Programmers or Code Monkeys, and they tend to be people who don't care about what it really takes to produce programs for the long term and that solve real people's problems. The SE might have some CM underlings, or might not: depends on the organization where he/she is working and the nature of the project. (Remember, "industrial purposes" can have quite a wide interpretation.)

Re:BS, but look at the definition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687175)

"Any fool can program and many do." They are by definition computer programmers anyway.

Software engineering is what's practiced at Google, IBM, Oracle, and the like. Maintainablility, documentation, reliability, usability, security, QA, etc. are front and center at all times. If you think the software they make is buggy, unreliable crap, just imagine what it would be like if the average programmer were building it instead.

Re:BS, but look at the definition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39688253)

sounds like embedded engineer which is good work. all that remains is shitty web technologies. And who the fuk wants to work on that shit?

Re:BS, but look at the definition (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39689703)

How about people who can use proper capitalization and spelling? And who don't start sentences with conjunctions?

Define terms please (4, Insightful)

wombatmobile (623057) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686505)

"Software Engineer" can mean so many different things. It could be heaven. It could be hell.

Re:Define terms please (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686833)

It could be heaven. It could be hell.

The best way to tell is if your boss's tail is as pointy has his hair.

Top Jobs of 2032: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686515)

Best Job: Oligarch
Worst Job: Servant to Oligarch

P.S.: These are the only two jobs.

Re:Top Jobs of 2032: (1)

lightknight (213164) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687095)

And guess which one most people get?

become a bioinformatician (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686519)

data is being created faster than it's being analyzed

Re:become a bioinformatician (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686783)

Mod parent informative, please. Data visualization firms can get HUGE bucks... if you have an eye for aesthetics and know your way around Processing (easy-peasy, right?) you can do very well for yourself.

Most relevant quote *is* from the lumberjack (1)

OzPeter (195038) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686529)

(Kirk Luoto) .. "There were times when I thought maybe I should do something different," he says. But he quickly realized he wouldn't be happy in some of the higher-ranked jobs, especially the cubicle-based ones. "I don't like desks," he says.

There is a lot to be said about understanding what you like an don't like to do.

I don't see "infographics designer" on the list... (1)

jeffb (2.718) (1189693) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686531)

...and I'm not surprised, given that they apparently laid off the ones who were supposed to handle this article. Anybody want to take a crack at correlating the category scores with the green-bar indicators?

Re:I don't see "infographics designer" on the list (1)

wombatmobile (623057) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687043)

You can see an interesting thing about infographics design at the NYT here [goo.gl] .

dunno about roustabout (2)

Trepidity (597) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686537)

I'd put in a good word for layabout as an enjoyable occupation, though.

University of Florida to Destroy CS department (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686559)

This is ironic, as the same day I am reading that the school I attended is looking to slash its Computer Science program. See link:
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=107291847&gid=87185&commentID=76608150&trk=view_disc&ut=3T3QmAZFiDn5c1

UF is shotting itself in the foot. Please visit this site http://saveufcise.wordpress.com/ to sign a petition to oppose the budget cuts!

Can't really compare jobs (1)

joe_frisch (1366229) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686633)

"work environment" is completely subjective. Some people like busy active interaction, others like to work alone. Some like to talk to the public, others don't. Stress is also difficult to quantify: If an airline pilot screws up, hundreds of people die - but its really unlikely. If a software engineer screws up he gets fired - but he is much more likely to screw up than the pilot. As far as physical demands - some people would prefer a job where they get exercise working outdoors - being a lumberjack is OK

I wonder how porn star would rate on their list......how would you rate the "work environment".

As someone who has been in startups since the 80s (3, Insightful)

perpenso (1613749) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686655)

What is interesting about software engineering right now is that we are at a point where someone, solo or with a couple of buddies, can realistically develop a product and reach an audience. We have not been able to do that very easily in a while.

In the stone ages of personal computers, the 1980s, a few guys working out of their garage could literally develop software, put a 5.25in floppy in a ziplock baggy with a xeroxed manual, and take it to the local mom-and-pop and brick-and-mortar computer shops that were around back then. Some friends and I *literally* did the above. You could talk to the manager, do a quick demo, he'd often buy a few put it on the shelf and after they sold give you a phone call to order some more. Repeat as necessary, increasing your geographic coverage.

Then came a couple of decades where the small computer shops were replaced by big chain stores and later online. During those times it was really difficult to reach customers. Even with the internet you were still largely limited to selling to a relatively small technically inclined niche. The general public did not get onboard until very recently.

Today with the general public largely accepting pure digital distribution via the various app stores the little guy(s) can actually reach a decent audience. For example Perpenso Calc for iPhone iPad [perpenso.com] , a calculator app offering RPN, scientific, statistics, business and hex functionality. A product like this shows up in a store search right next to HP and TI offerings. So yes, its a pretty good time to be a software engineer.

Well, that explains it... (1)

xyourfacekillerx (939258) | more than 2 years ago | (#39686667)

With so many so-called "software engineers", that explains why there is just so much bad software out there. Not everyone has the discipline to turn their software development practices into engineering work. In my experience a lot of software engineers are really just, well, ... coders... ?

Variability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686695)

There is so much variability in jobs that these types of lists don't really say a whole lot - except for maybe informing incoming college freshmen on what fields to stay away from. For example, I work in IT. I make more than a "Corporate Executive (senior)" and just less than "Military General" (well, with my variable bonus I actually get more than the General) according to this list. But I have no direct reports and a Technical Lead. Variability. Someone in a different location with a lower cost of living and maybe less experience doing what I do would make significantly less. Am I an outlier? Yes. I understand that the lists are trying for averages and shouldn't tempt people to go into a certain field by showing the highest possible pay.

Software Engineer best? Doubtful... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686715)

I'm a software engineer, and I doubt it's the best job. I even doubt that there's much "science" in how they determined best.

I'd say my top 4 jobs would be:

4) company CEO
3) TV show host
2) professional athlete
1) lottery winner

And before you say that lottery winner isn't a choice/profession, just remember that the chance of a teenager becoming one isn't *that* different from the chance of becoming a mathematician or engineer.

Re:Software Engineer best? Doubtful... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39686795)

I see what you are getting at. But those professions really depend on you hitting the lottery. The probability of being successful in those professions are extremely low, although there is no limit to how successful you can become.

For a person who wants to lead an essentially peaceful and happy life, I wouldn't recommend any of those.

hm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687029)

If you graduated from Carnegie Mellon at the top of your class with an MS in Software Engineering, would you have it just as hard as someone who just got by with their BS from Susquehanna University, or would the field look really good?

Top job... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687107)

...meaning top salary we want forced down by flooding the market with graduates.

norm macdonald disagrees (2)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687193)

And for the third year in a row the worst job is.....CRACK WHORE.

Re:norm macdonald disagrees (1)

cschepers (1581457) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687639)

except for that one year, when the worst job was "crack whore trainee."

Title doesn't mean what you actually do (1)

techhead79 (1517299) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687351)

The companies that give the software engineer title to actual software engineers...of course they are happy and content. Their company probably doesn't try to screw them over. I'd like to note that many companies have programmer analysts doing the work of a software engineer just so they don't have to pay them what a software engineer gets paid.

104. Commercial Airline Pilot (1)

jbwolfe (241413) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687431)

Thumbing through, I find this one (my own career choice) to be rated higher for "stress" than any of the preceeding careers. The methodology apparently looks at the following: Travel, Outlook/Growth Potential, Deadlines, Working in the Public Eye, Competitiveness, Physical Demands (stoop, climb, etc.), Environmental Conditions, Hazards Encountered, Own Life at Risk, Life of Another at Risk, Meeting the Public.

Can't see why it would rank so high in stress when those are the factors. If I want to "get away" i can retreat to the cockpit and close the door: that removes "Working in the Public Eye" and "Meeting the Public" quite easily (depending on how those are defined), not that people stress me out. "Outlook/Growth Potential"- don't get me started on the age 60/65 retirement issue: it's been five years of stagnation on top of a bad economy and 9/11. "Environmental Conditions"- I do walkarounds in the winter, but I get to control the temp in my workspace to warm back up. Oh yeah, polar crossings are prohibited during solar events, but I do get the equivalent of a couple extra X-rays per year in cruise. If "Own Life at Risk, Life of Another at Risk" are considered important, maybe they could add a few dollars to my pay to sooth my nerves... a surgeon is paid 3-5 times what I make but he only holds one person's life in his hands at a time, I've got hundreds."Hazards Encountered"- that's fairly open ended. Maybe you should ask Clayton F. Osbon's [usatoday.com] copilot about that. "Physical Demands (stoop, climb, etc.)"- I'm not 20 pounds overweight from physical exertion, but lethargy is its own physical demand. "Deadlines"- I'll move when I'm damn well ready to, and not a moment sooner. At least safety is still both under the pilots control and his responsibility.

What stresses me out isn't even considered: 1) being paid half what I used to and working twice as much, and 2) not having had a pay raise for 9 years and 3) having managements tell employees "We're very committed to getting a deal with the pilots too. But it has to be fair; fair to them and fair to us." [chicagotribune.com] while they continue feed at the trough. Still love my work, just eager for some rewards to return to the profession.

Re:104. Commercial Airline Pilot (1)

Wovel (964431) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688021)

You should blame the flight attendants and their union. They drove AA into bankruptcy and routinely out negotiate the Pilots. Bizarre really. Despite all oftheir claims about being there for passenger safety, they have very little to do with it.

Re:104. Commercial Airline Pilot (1)

bzipitidoo (647217) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688257)

Upper management is to blame. Why should flight attendants settle for peanuts when executives are raking in millions? No reason I can see. Crandall, former head of American Airlines, once persuaded everyone to take a pay cut for the sake of the airline. Then he turned around and accepted a huge bonus for negotiating the cuts. Needless to say, the employees were infuriated. After Crandall left, management did it again in 2003. Huge pay cuts for the rank and file, big bonuses for themselves.

Until executive pay returns to sane levels, let the unions go for it!

Re:104. Commercial Airline Pilot (1)

jbwolfe (241413) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688377)

Not sure if you're trolling or not. Ok,I'll bite...

If you going to blame the flight attendants, why not the pilots too? Let's add the mechanics and the rampers while we're at it. Shit, let's be honest and assign all the blame for all the economy's problems to all of labor. They are the real problem here, and everywhere. Who needs the middle class, Why did we bother bailing out Detroit? Lazy autoworkers don't deserve to mop up after they shutter the industry. Let them find jobs at Walmart like everybody else...Let them eat cake.

When the middle class is gone there will be nothing left to hold up the economy. What will the "1%ers" do then- all that money and nothing to do with it. Shame really, 'cause they had nothing to do with running companies into the ground- absolutely nothing, flawless business decision making acumen and under appreciated management skills. They really should be paid more. $40 million dollars simply isn't enough. The only good thing about AA bankruptcy is that when they exit chapter 11, the executives will be made whole again- just like it never happened...and those miserable labor pukes will get what the deserve- stolen pensions, 50% paycuts, and doubled workloads. Social darwinism is real. You believe in it, right? You believe its just a matter of time before you join the ranks of the 1%, because you're a real hard worker, and real hard workers get rewarded? See ya on the other side...

Re:104. Commercial Airline Pilot (1)

Smallpond (221300) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688617)

You should blame the flight attendants and their union. They drove AA into bankruptcy and routinely out negotiate the Pilots. Bizarre really. Despite all oftheir claims about being there for passenger safety, they have very little to do with it.

Flight attendants are making 20 - 80K depending on seniority, and the only battle going on is management trying to fire the older ones and somehow convince young people to come in and put up with low pay and horrible working conditions. Flight attendant pay accounts for less than 10% of the cost of your flight, fuel over 50%. I don't think unions had much to do with AA's problems.

I plan to rectify this problem (2)

istartedi (132515) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687473)

I'm working on a programmable chainsaw.

Love my job (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687597)

I started life as an oyster picker which I would rate down below logger. I can say with 100% certainty that I'm very glad I'm now a Software Engineer.

Complete nonsense (1)

excelsior_gr (969383) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687723)

How come "Software Engineer" and "Actuary", both desk jobs according to their descriptions have different scores for "Physical Demand". Especially when the later is measured according to the weight one is expected to lift while performing his duties (ok, they say they also take "pulling, pushing, standing, walking, stooping, kneeling, crawling, climbing, crouching or reaching" into account, but still... click the "Jobs Rated Methodology" link). And what do the green bars mean? They don't seem to be scaled according to the scores...

Re:Complete nonsense (3, Interesting)

Wovel (964431) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687989)

The whole study is silly so it does not matter what the green bars mean. However, I see your point. The premise is false. The methodology is flawed. I am sure we should expect to see this study all over the national news.

permission to read (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39687735)

I would like to add to and learn from the experience of your web

Garbage (2)

Wovel (964431) | more than 2 years ago | (#39687967)

What a silly list with no basis in reality. I suppose if you have no ambition or drive that is a good place to start. Otherwise, do something you love. Besides, the #1 job in the world is CEO. Requires no skill, little formal training, and the pay is pretty good.

I disagree... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39688283)

Lumberjack > Assistant Crack Whore

Bogus stress definition (1)

sleepypsycho (1335401) | more than 2 years ago | (#39688419)

If you read the methodology page http://www.careercast.com/jobs-rated/2012-jobs-rated-methodology [careercast.com] then a lot of the problems are obvious. One that stands out to me is that the stresses are almost all elements of other factors, especially work environment. The stress criteria are not what comes to my mind when I think about work stresses. I can see where they are legitimate but not if they are already reflected by other categories.

WOW (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39689057)

This article is so bad that I would label it spam. Please remove this crap. It's not remotely factual. Put it in Science-fiction, perhaps

No future for Americans in IT (1)

walterbyrd (182728) | more than 2 years ago | (#39689061)

Yeah, I know, there are some high paid IT jobs.

But I would not expect those jobs to last. Employers are offshoring as fast as they possible can, and the few jobs that cannot be offshored, are being filed by foreign visa workers. There is just no way for Americans to compete with third world wages.

China, and India, are cranking out about 600,000 tech degrees a year. And the US is not even able to place it's own tech graduates.

Remember how manufacturing was offshored? Well offshoring IT is far easier. With IT, you don't even have to ship anything, just zap files back and forth over the internet. Practically all IT jobs can be offshored, and that is clearly the trend.

You say your manager likes your work, and would never replace you with a foreign worker? When your department gets offshored, your manager will lose his/her job as well.

Sorry, but it's a no-brainer, offshoring work saves money. So what do you think US companies are going to do?

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>