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Mandrake 8.0 Beta Released

timothy posted more than 13 years ago | from the a-man-a-distribution-a-plant-panama dept.

Mandriva 300

Boiling rumors can now be set aside: Linux-Mandrake's 8.0 beta is ready for grabbing. Before you complain about Version Inflation (Slackware, Red Hat and others should come out with v10 just for fun), read the fine print indicating that by using this beta version, you're surrendering your machine to the winds of time, and French aliens may come kidnap you and your data for sheer sadistic sport. That is, especially if you have a VIA Apollo Pro or KT133 Chipsets and a WD drive greater than 8.4Gb in size. So the real 8.0 isn't ready yet (that will be the time to complain about version inflation proper), but like Red Hat's Fisher, this is a nice way to experience upgrades all around the mulberry bush, including a 2.4 kernel (2.4.2, actually) without building them all yourself.

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Running Mandrake8 Beta now and loving it (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#394823)

I installed Cooker (the daily beta) on Friday and run MandrakeUpdate every day to get the latest packages, so I now have KDE 2.1 as well.

The distro is running nicely except for some crashed of the updater and a missing Flash plugin in Konqueror. The installer is a big improvement over the old one, it's the best one I've seen so far, only problem: Installation on Software RAID seems to be broken.

My personal highlights in Mandrake8 are

  • kernel-2.4.2
  • kde-*-2.1
  • vim-X11-6.0w
  • glibc-2.2.2
  • reiserfs-3.6.25 (as root fs)

i[56]86 sucks! (2)

Christopher Bibbs (14) | more than 13 years ago | (#394825)

Ok, this is a rant and it is a bit personal, but I'm getting sick of all the i586 and i686 packages(especially those) floating around. Now I can forgive Mandrake since that's part of its bag. But why other binary distributions (like mozilla)?

I own lots of Pentia class machines, but I also have some really cool 486 machines that I'd like to use. Yes, I could get the source and recompile everything, but this is my rant and I'm going to enjoy it for a minute.

Thank you.

Re:What in the hell are you talking about. (2)

HeUnique (187) | more than 13 years ago | (#394826)

So goto Redhat's web site and update the damn kernel and, while you're there - grab all the updatess. It's pretty simple to run:

rpm -Uvh *

and thats it! I'm running here Redhat 7 with those updates and it didn't have even a single problem since the update of the GCC

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (3)

Russ Steffen (263) | more than 13 years ago | (#394827)

Actually, I get 10=9 not 9=10. And, by my quick analysis that is in fact the correct answer. Here's why: when the the constant expression is evaluated by the compiler, it can do a couple of tricks to come up with the "correct" answer of 10 (eq. rounding and infinte precision math (like "bc") come to mind). But the variable expression must be evaluated with floating point math, and that's where your difficulty is. 0.3 and 0.7 cannot be accurately represented in the IEEE floating point format. so the equation actually results in 2.99999999... + 6.999999999.... = 9.99999999... . In order to get an answer of 10, the other platforms you tried either (a) use a non-IEEE-standard floating point format. or (b) rounded instead of truncated when casting to an int (which I believe is nat ANSI standard C compliant behaviour).

What the hell is up with Western Digital drives?! (1)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 13 years ago | (#394828)

I mean, this isn't the first time they haven't worked with other hardware or software -- why the hell can't they seem to get things right, every other hard drive company seems to have their shit together. Anyone know what's up with this?

- A.P.

* CmdrTaco is an idiot.

Oracle Installer is broken to begin with... (2)

Wakko Warner (324) | more than 13 years ago | (#394829)

For every OS I've ever used it on (Solaris, Linux, NT 4.0, Win2k), it's died in new and interesting ways. So when I hear "this kernel breaks the installer" or "this distro breaks the installer" or even "this day of the week breaks the installer" I'm never surprised.

- A.P.

* CmdrTaco is an idiot.

Use old machines for things they CAN do (2)

deno (814) | more than 13 years ago | (#394834)

Install LM 8.0 on some old 486 machine, let it start KDE (or gnome, doesn't matter), open star office, maybe netscape too... Then go to cinema and by the time you come back some of the progs may already be ready and waiting for you...

OK, you could go for some lighter GUI, and avoid real slowware, but the sad fact is: old machines are too slow for modern GUI software. So what's the point on installing the newest disto on it?

This said, there are some places where such machines would do a perfect job:
  • X-terminal. No need to install general purpose distribution on machine if it is going to be used as X terminal.
  • firewall/rooter: If you have cable or (A)DSL connection at home or in some small office, install a firewall-distribution on it. Mandrake is working on one [mandrakeforum.com] , and I'm sure there are other out there too.
  • Smalish server on i486 box would be fine too.

Read these articles (5)

deno (814) | more than 13 years ago | (#394835)

Civileme has been investigating this for quite some time, and he wrote about it on Mandrakeforum. It looks as if WD has severe QA problems, and this time it got a help from chipset and a bug (or at least lack of workaround) in kernel.

Here are the stories: Civileme even claims that WD drives just fake CRC, but it's difficult to say if there is some truth in this or not. One is sure: these beasts cause a lot of trouble.

Re:i[56]86 sucks! (1)

ninjaz (1202) | more than 13 years ago | (#394838)

If you want a truly solid Free Unix for Alpha, I suggest NetBSD. I've been using it there for a couple years after finding that Linux was a bit too rough for my tastes for a production machine. It has been a good couple years for that alpha. :)

Re:Version inflation (1)

YogSothoth (3357) | more than 13 years ago | (#394851)

You know Zico, after seeing about your 15th post whose general theme is "va linux's stock has tanked, ha ha ha" I've been finally become curious enough that I have to ask you why in the world you have such an axe to grind on this topic.

Before you reel off a kneejerk response I'd like you to actually go back and look at your posting history over the last few months or so. Notice how many times the va linux stock issue comes up in your posts (note also how many times you just flat out shoehorn it in whether it has anything to do with the topic at hand or not).

You are seriously disturbed, dude - a normal person just doesn't sling bile and vitriol about other peoples' misfortunes with this level of consistency and enthusiasm. I have no idea why you are the way you are - but I have once encountered people whose behavior is somewhat parallel to yours - you probably know them too, the people who gloated incessantly back in high school when someone else's relationship floundered and never missed an opportunity to heap sarcasm and cynicism on the concept of relationships in general.

Re:Version inflation (1)

YogSothoth (3357) | more than 13 years ago | (#394852)

Fair enough, I definitely remember being exceedingly underwhelmed with ESR's behavior after he became an instant "millionaire" so I certainly can't begrudge you that one ;-).

Fine Print (4)

Doug Merritt (3550) | more than 13 years ago | (#394853)

Since the ftp site is slashdotted, here's the fine print in question:

Applicability: Linux-Mandrake 8.0 BETA 1 WARNING This BETA has the potential to mis- recognize the drive geometry on systems with VIAApollo Pro or KT133 Chipsets and WD drives greaterthan 8.4Gb in size. This leads to massive andunrecoverable data corruption. Do NOT install or attempt to test with these systems. It relates to recently discovered kernel bug which may be fixed in kernel 2.4.2. We expect to have the fix in place for BETA 2 (Traktopel). Thank you for your patience.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

kondrag (3980) | more than 13 years ago | (#394855)

My Mandrake 7.2 was up 74 days until shut it down last night to upgrade the CPU. It has been plenty stable with my hardware.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

drix (4602) | more than 13 years ago | (#394858)

Mandrake has 28% of the market because they were wise enough to sign up with Macmillan to be their publisher soon after Redhat was stupid enough to drop the same. If Redhat was available in KMart & Costco right now instead of Mandrake then they would be shipping that many units too. It really has nothing to do with their distro; it's more like Joe User sees that newfangled "Linux" thing while he's out shopping for groceries and picks it up because it costs 20 bucks. Not to mention that for awhile Mandrake had the same version numbers as RHAT and basically camoflauged their boxes so you couldn't tell you were buying a derivate distro and not the real thing itself.


Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

astyanax (8365) | more than 13 years ago | (#394867)

I assume that is a libc issue and not a gcc issue, since it seems gcc under *BSD does not suffer from this bug. It is still a bit disheartening however, have you notified the libc people about this?

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

James Ray Kenney (9036) | more than 13 years ago | (#394869)

[root@skylark /root]# cat /etc/issue.net
Welcome to %h
Linux Mandrake release 7.2 (Odyssey) for i586
Kernel 2.2.17-21mdk on an i686
[root@skylark /root]# uname -a
Linux skylark..org 2.2.17-21mdk #1 Thu Oct 5 13:16:08 CEST 2000 i686 unknown
[root@skylark /root]# uptime
12:06pm up 2 days, 2:31, 1 user, load average: 1.26, 1.22, 1.18
[root@skylark /root]#

Why is my load average so high on a 900mhz with 512mb ram!

Re:i[56]86 sucks! (2)

Phexro (9814) | more than 13 years ago | (#394873)

blatant plug, since i'm a debian developer:

have you looked at debian [debian.org] ? the last stable release [debian.org] , potato, supports alpha.

if you want cool new stuff, you could even give the testing [debian.org] distribution, aka "woody" a whirl. and if you want a broken, but bleeding-edge system, go install unstable.

Re:Fisher (2)

Syberghost (10557) | more than 13 years ago | (#394877)

So you're using RedHat 4.2, 5.2, or 6.2 then? Those are the supported versions that use a "standard" compiler.


Fisher (3)

Syberghost (10557) | more than 13 years ago | (#394878)

RedHat may still say Fisher on their web pages, but Wolverine (Beta 7.0.91) is already out, and has been for a week.


Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (2)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 13 years ago | (#394882)

dev-ehopper 924 $ cat fred.c int main(void) { int a = 60, b = 6, c = 10; printf("%d = %d\n", (int)(((60/6)*0.3) + (10*0.7)), (int)((( a/b)*0.3) + ( c*0.7))); exit(1); } dev-ehopper 925 $ gcc -march=i686 -O2 fred.c dev-ehopper 926 $ ./a.out 10 = 10

*shrug* Floating point is tricky. I would class your post as a clever troll. I think gcc, by default, is not strictly IEEE compliant.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (3)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 13 years ago | (#394883)

This is a silly reason. It's a slight different in how floating point calculations are done on the two platforms. Floating point calculations not involving powers of two are going to have some error in them. For some reason, with gcc under Linux on the x86, the error results in the second calculation giving a result very slightly less than 10. The (int) typecast does not round.

This more proves the lesson that you shouldn't expect exact results out of floating point calculations that it proves whether or not any particular OS is better than another.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (2)

warlock (14079) | more than 13 years ago | (#394887)

If you've got a minute, and one of those 'bleeding edge' OSes, try compiling with no optimizations and running this for fun:

int main(void)
int a = 60, b = 6, c = 10;

printf("%d = %d\n", (int) (((60/6)*0.3) + (10*0.7)), (int) ((( a/b)*0.3) + ( c*0.7)));


(BTW the lameness filter defies logic, that was the best I could do with the C snippet)

A friend was tortured for a few hours doing an assignment until I took a look at the code and realized the problem boiled down to something that can be reduced to this snippet.

I compiled this with default compiler settings on every platform I could find. This means Digital Unix 4.0, OpenVMS 7.2, Solaris 8, IRIX 6.4, HP-UX 10.20, FreeBSD 4-STABLE, OpenBSD 2.8 and various Linux distros, from ancient to cutting edge - both with gcc and any commercial compilers that happened to be available at each box.

On all Linux distros, and only on Linux distros, ranging from an ancient Slackware setup to the latest Red Hat, I get 9=10. On everything else, I get 10=10. Go figure, and remember that the whole OS is compiled with that.

I think I'll just stick to FreeBSD as far as my intel boxes are concerned.

Version inflation (1)

Zico (14255) | more than 13 years ago | (#394888)

But if you're going to complain about version inflation, why would you wait? At least this way they might change their minds. If you wait until 8.0 is actually released, it's a little late.

On a side note, more seriously: I know there's been a lot of joking around anf flaming, but VA Linux really is going down for the count, isn't it? The stock's dropped another 12% down to $4.41/share, and it doesn't seem to be bottoming out. I'm curious what's going to happen to Slashdot and Andover -- whether they'll just be turned loose, another company buys them, or whatever. Anyway...


Re:Version inflation (1)

Zico (14255) | more than 13 years ago | (#394889)

Well, according to the letter that Larry sent out on Feb 20 (when he axed 25% of the staff), they had $126 million left in the bank. They had a net loss of around $13 million last quarter, with no hope of being profitable any time soon. Now, if anyone can look at their business model and tell me how they can turn a profit goign up against the Dells of the world, I'd love to hear it.


Re:Version inflation (1)

Zico (14255) | more than 13 years ago | (#394890)

Nah, I just find it funny that ESR has to eat his words after his little gloat about how much better he was than his worshippers. As for the Slashdot guys, I might rail on them, but I don't want their site taken away from them. As a matter of fact, if you want to go back further in my posting history, you'll see that I was congratulating Bates and Malda on great stock market fortunes they were earning (American dream and all that good stuff) while plenty of other posters were calling for their heads for being sellouts. I've got no axe to grind, I just come here for a laugh and to occasionally educate and to occasionally be educated.


VA Linux's death throes (2)

Zico (14255) | more than 13 years ago | (#394891)

LNUX has dropped over 40% since the market closed last Tuesday, though, while NASDAQ's only lost about 5%. Same pretty much holds true (as far as LNUX bleeding way more than the market as a whole) whether you look at the last 5 days, 10 days, whatever. Stick a fork in this company, it's done. On the bright side, ESR's original $41,000,000 worth of LNUX stock is now down to about $550,000, and his gloating sounds more comical everyday.


Re:Version Inflation (1)

yobtah (16795) | more than 13 years ago | (#394893)

It's Mandrake's "convention" because it's RedHat's convention. Don't forget that Mandrake is simply a tweaked and repackaged RedHat. They generally follow the RedHat version numbers.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 13 years ago | (#394902)

[applvis@home applvis]$ gcc -o test test.c
[applvis@home applvis]$ ./test
10 = 9
[applvis@home applvis]$ uname -a
Linux home.wseb.com 2.2.17-21mdk #1 Thu Oct 5 13:16:08 CEST 2000 i686 unknown
[applvis@home applvis]$

Damn, i guess Mandrake 7.2 is broken!

Funny this happens. I run Oracle Applications under several linux boxes. Wouldn't it suck for any business of any size to be running production erp applications to have some critical numbers off becuase of a flawed arithmatic algorythm in the standard libc libraries?


Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 13 years ago | (#394903)

well, after reviewing the correcting posts, does linux do this under all platforms or just x86?

Was 7.1 so good? (2)

SpinyNorman (33776) | more than 13 years ago | (#394914)

I'm running 7.1 at home, and it seems a bit flakey - not sure why. Maybe because I'm using reiserfs?

It was OK for a while, but the slocate and logrotate cron jobs now just chunder on forever (I've now disabled them), and sometimes the system just goes into a CPU killing disk-swap downward spiral (I've got 64MB RAM, but two swap regions totalling a lot more - maybe 128MB or 256MB).

Any ideas? Anyone else have problems with 7.1 that went away with 7.2?

I think I'm gonna give 8.0 a try anyway - got a partition reserved waiting for it!

Re:i[56]86 sucks! (1)

Tower (37395) | more than 13 years ago | (#394920)

Yeah, I've used FreeBSD on the system for a while, and I was hoping that I could get some newer Linux iso images to test out on the one system, to see how things have improved for Alpha. The older RH installs (6.2) worked fine, but since there's been a lot of improvements in the x86 space, I was looking forward to a lot of goodness in the alpha arena. Some of the previous problems I hope would have been cleared up, since they were pretty basic (and seemed to be distro based, rather than kernel-based).


Re:i[56]86 sucks! (2)

Tower (37395) | more than 13 years ago | (#394922)

Note my other comment that Mandrake 7.1 seems very broken on my Alphas, and there hasn't been a release of 7.2 for Alpha... leaving me short of options.

I may be on the road to Turbolinux, but their Alpha distro looks even more dated...

Alpha versions? (3)

Tower (37395) | more than 13 years ago | (#394925)

I wish somebody had a current distro for Alpha. The latest I can find is RH7.0 (brokenish) or Mandrake 7.1 (won't reboot after install - can't find libreadline5). Kind of a pain for those of us running Alphas... I'd love to see a distro release with 2.4.x sometime in the near future.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (2)

EnderWiggnz (39214) | more than 13 years ago | (#394926)

only if you dont count europe :-)

suse may end up the #1 distribution because... well, europe LOVES it... germans especially...

and, i think that suse may actually be /profitable/, even... something that is unheard of for US distribution companies...

yeh yeh... their american division got fscked... but there is more to the world than the good ole US of A...


Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (2)

nijhof (44330) | more than 13 years ago | (#394931)

> printf("%d = %d\n", (int) (((60/6)*0.3) + (10*0.7)), (int) ((( a/b)*0.3) + ( c*0.7)));
[..] On all Linux distros [..] I get 9=10.

Repeat after me: Floating point calculations are imprecise. It seems like you've got it the wrong way around, by the way: the calculation that is done at compile time is "exact".

You can simplify the above further to
int c = 10;
... (int) (3 + c * 0.7)

which gives you 9 -- because 0.7 happens to be rounded down in binary! (60/6) is an integer calculation, so that gives you exactly 10 -- but with floating point calculations you get rounding errors.

That the first expression, which is calculated by the compiler does result in 10, is because that is done by the optimised compiler, which calculates the whole expression in the FPU without storing intermediate results. And the i386 FPU uses 80-bit numbers internally, so that it does work out OK in this case. Or perhaps you're just plain lucky.

If you want the answer to be 10, just change int c = 10; to double c=10.0000000000001;.

When it comes to numerical mathematics, lesson one is: You cannot trust the rounding of floating point calculations.

Jeroen Nijhof

As the old saying goes.... (1)

robl (53384) | more than 13 years ago | (#394934)

"I grew up on ( insert choice of distribution here ) , and then I grew up."

I have used Slackware 96, RedHat 5.2, and I switched to Mandrake. I thought that Mandrake 6.1 and 6.2 were okay, but then problems with 7 forced me back to RedHat.

But before we go back into a distro war here, each of the distributions does fill a niche. Slackware is nice for developers, RedHat and debian are nice for a production server due to their ease of upgradability. And mandrake... well... yes it's easier to use and setup for the home user. But a serious user will feel short-changed with stability and overal usability.

10=9 on SCO OSR 5.0.5 w/GCC (3)

CrayDrygu (56003) | more than 13 years ago | (#394939)

For what it's worth...

# uname -a
SCO_SV hol504 3.2 5.0.5 i386
# /usr/local/bin/gcc -v
Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/i386-pc-sco3.2v5.0.5/2.95.2 /specs
gcc version 2.95.2 19991024 (release)
# /usr/local/bin/gcc test.c
# ./a.out
10 = 9


European Mirrors (1)

MrEd (60684) | more than 13 years ago | (#394941)

Are they trying to damp the insatiable demand of North Americans for new software? What's with the Europe-only release? Good thing the trans-Atlantic cable is watercooled.

Re:WD SCSI drives? (2)

levendis (67993) | more than 13 years ago | (#394952)

I'm sure its just ATA, since the problem is actually with the chipset driver


Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

binner (68996) | more than 13 years ago | (#394955)

Debian 2.2/with some woody thrown in...

bdwalton@binner:~$ gcc -v
Reading specs from /usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-linux/2.95.3/specs
gcc version 2.95.3 20010125 (prerelease)

bdwalton@binner:~$ a.out
10 = 9



Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

mr. roboto (85479) | more than 13 years ago | (#394964)

You're right, as far as I can tell.

On my Mandrake 7.2 system:
10 = 9

On a random AIX system:
10 = 10

Could someone please explain this?

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (2)

jmv (93421) | more than 13 years ago | (#394967)

...and BTW, I tried on solarix x86 with gcc 2.95.2 and also got 10 = 9, so this is not even an OS issue. It's all about a bad programming practice that produces bad results with a certain compiler/CPU combination (using the same gcc version on solaris/SPARC gives 10=10). That's all there is to it.

If a certain program doesn't produce the same result with different compilers/platforms, the most like cause is not a bug in the compiler, but an undefined behaviour caused by a badly written program.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (5)

jmv (93421) | more than 13 years ago | (#394973)

The value of: (int) (((60/6)*0.3) + (10*0.7)) can be either 9 or 10, depending on when the float values are moved in/out the floating point registers (which are 80 bits instead of 64 bits for a double). Your compiler cannot guaranty the result and you should no assume that the result is 10, unless you round to the nearest integer (instead of casting to an int, which is equivalent to a floor).

Therefor, it's not the compilers fault it this problem happens, it's your fault if you make those kind of assumptions (It's the same reason why you should almost never use == when comparing 2 floating point numbers).

Re:KT133 & 2.4+ (1)

mberman (93546) | more than 13 years ago | (#394975)

I'm using an Asus A7V (which is KT133) and 2.4.1 with no trouble at all. I have an Ultra160 drive, as well as a few ATA66s, and they've all worked fine with 2.4.x since the day 2.4.0 came out.

So when can we expect... (1)

galego (110613) | more than 13 years ago | (#394988)

Mandrake 2010 or the like? Seems there's some real aversion of software reaching version 10 (and admitting it)...Mandrake's getting close, they're going to have to come up with something else.

Even Apple made it X...ten,but not Mac OS 10. Anyway...just thinking outloud with my finers. I'll be curious to see what Apple does on revs...
X.04 ?
X.1 ?
X.5 ?

OK...now mod me down for off-topic ramblings...



Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

Tuzanor (125152) | more than 13 years ago | (#394997)

There is a Mandrake Corporate you can get now. it's supposed to be geared towards the server arena, but i haven't tried it myself....

Re:French *AND* ugly? (1)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | more than 13 years ago | (#394998)

Haven't you seen 'Mission Impossible'?
Because there is a nice specimen of French and not ugly in it (and no, it's not Jean Reno).

Re:Version Inflation (1)

ahknight (128958) | more than 13 years ago | (#395000)

Not just Mandrake. Redhat went 5.0, 5.1, 5.2, 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 7.0. Seems like people don't want to get stuck in a specific major version for long.
Hell, Apple's worse! 6.0, 7.0, 7.1, 7.5, 8.0, 8.1, 8.5, 9.0, 9.1, 10! They not only skip up to the next major version (from 6.0 to 7.0), they mutilate the minor as well (ever heard of a x.2 release?)!

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

Strog (129969) | more than 13 years ago | (#395001)

Corporate 1.0 is based on 7.1 with a customization wizard helping you setup everything the first time you logon. Seemed pretty handy to me but I moved on to 7.2 and set it up myself.

Re:Finally, a distro with a 2.4 kernel (1)

-=OmegaMan=- (151970) | more than 13 years ago | (#395014)

Mandrake 7.2 comes with an optional 2.4 kernel. Just set "hack" as your default boot kernel.

Re:Alpha versions? (2)

SquadBoy (167263) | more than 13 years ago | (#395022)

Have you looked at the testing branch for Debian. It does not come with 2.4.x by default but you can apt-get it and AFAIK it is working very well at this point?

Sweet. (1)

meff (170550) | more than 13 years ago | (#395026)

Now I can try it once more and compare to Debian.. I always end up going back to Debian though ;)

Version Inflation (1)

kikta (200092) | more than 13 years ago | (#395037)

Actually, my understanding is that Madrake's normal convention is to go from X.1, X.2 to the next X.0. So, since they have released 7.2, it is their normal procedure that the next one will be 8.0. Frenchies, go figure.

Options during install - Workstation, Server (1)

ZzeusS (206483) | more than 13 years ago | (#395041)

Shrug? They install what is most important for the default bundle you choose. Out of all the distros I've used, Mandrake has been the most stable and easy to use, both for Workstation and Server. With Ximian, I can then load up all the extra junk I want without chasing down broken dependencies.

Categories (2)

TheFlu (213162) | more than 13 years ago | (#395043)

Mandrake has always struck me as an odd distro. I'm not really sure where to place the thing. Is it geared for home users (and another poster mentioned), servers, hobbyists or what? Out of curiousity, I installed 7.2 on a dual proc machine here a while ago, and while I was impressed with some of the features (native ReiserFS and HPT360 support), their whole setup seemed rather "cutesy" to me.

I'm not sure what better way to describe it, but I just didn't care for the way they setup certain items and the entire look and feel left me somewhat annoyed. I realize things like wallpapers and icons can be changed fairly easily, and I'm certainly not knocking having multiple distros, as I do enjoy having the latest and greatest kernel/software releases included with Mandrake, but I'm just not sure who I would recommend Mandrake to. Perhaps I'm just biased because I've been using a certain other version of Linux for so long.

Compiling kernels the old fashioned way. The Linux Pimp [thelinuxpimp.com]

NOT complaining about version bloat (5)

MCZapf (218870) | more than 13 years ago | (#395046)

They're using a whole new kernel version. I think that's enough reason to call it Mandrake 8.0.

I have a perfect machine for this one! (1)

AFCArchvile (221494) | more than 13 years ago | (#395047)

There's an old Dell Optiplex XM 590 lying on my floor. It has a Pentium OverDrive chip inside, an Intel 430NX chipset, an S3 Vision 868 video chipset (which was pretty good back then), and 48 megs of RAM. That sounds like the perfect Linux guinea pig system.

Re:Sweet. (4)

Bob Abooey (224634) | more than 13 years ago | (#395049)

I would like to go on record here as saying that debian users are turning into the BSD's of the Linux distro's. They are pompous and annoying and 31337 and probably all descendants of Amiga users.

I am therefore going public with an official statement:

I Bob Abooey, am hereby and do officially proclaim that I will never ever ever, ever, use debian Linux. If debian is the only Linux distro left on earth I will drive to Best Buy and give my last dollar to the wild eyed clerk for a copy of Microsoft Windows. If debian was the only OS left on the planet I will chop down a tree and build an abacas. In fact from this point in time I refuse to even acknowledge the rumor that debian even exists. And lastly, all of you apt-get-morons can kiss my big hairy white arse.


Re:i[56]86 sucks! (1)

joestar (225875) | more than 13 years ago | (#395050)

I agree but Mandrake has released special versions (of 7.0 in particular) for 486 processors (and for SPARC and Alpha as well BTW), and releasing for i586 by default gives the major coverage of users and provides them better performances than a Linux distro compiled for i386.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

joestar (225875) | more than 13 years ago | (#395051)

Also my 7.2:

$ uptime
6:55pm up 8 days, 18:12, 2 users, load average: 0.19, 0.23, 0.20

I went out for the week-end 10 days ago :-)

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

joestar (225875) | more than 13 years ago | (#395052)

It's FUD. Look at Linux counter - you'll see that Mandrake has more users than SuSE.

Re:i[56]86 sucks! (1)

joestar (225875) | more than 13 years ago | (#395053)

You're wrong - I've done some benchmarks (I don't remember the name of the tool :-( ) and there is a *real* difference between 2 and 15% gain more, depending on the category of tests.

Version inflation? Sorry, it's not the case... (2)

joestar (225875) | more than 13 years ago | (#395056)

Latest Mandrake was 7.2, so it's quite natural to have the new one called 8.0beta! Ok, in the past they have jumped from 6.1 to 7.0 (this was the *real* version inflation), but in a still older past, they did a 5.3 after 5.2 :-) Anyway, I've tried to download the two ISOs - I've followed and contributed to the development of this new Mandrake on the Cooker-list and while there are not many extra features from Mandrake itself this time, there is Kernel 2.4 an, KDE 2.1 and Gnome/Evolution and Nautilus. So I'm very impatient to test this release candidate!

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (2)

joestar (225875) | more than 13 years ago | (#395057)

I disagree for server use: I have several machines serving thousands HTTP request per day, with MySQL database calls and Mandrake is great for that: excellent performances (i586 optimizations + SGI optimization in Apache-Extranet-Advanced-Server). And also they have the high security levels: I put the highest and have not cracker breaking my servers. That's very confortable. And really, for stability: did you test it intesivly? It's *really* not unstable. And they are very reactive with security patches.

Re:roofl!!! (1)

bigjames (229455) | more than 13 years ago | (#395063)

linux can support drives up to 8.4 gigs now?! whoop scrub!

Er, that's referring to a problem with this beta recognising WD HDDs of > 8.4GB

AFAIK [linuxdoc.org] there are no capacity limits. Besides, it's an OS without so much bloat, you only need the space for MP3s. So go and slag off someone else's OS.

(did I just feed the troll?)

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

StarTux (230379) | more than 13 years ago | (#395064)

None of them are ready as most of your average user base is not even ready to use a computer, let alone any distrobution. A lot of these users would be better off sticking with M$ windows...

When I worked those contract jobs at people's sites and homes, well they could hardly turn the darn thing on, let alone really use it.

I have heard people rant how great CUPS is on Mandrake, yet on there CUPS website either some of the most common printers were not supported outright, or you had purchase the drivers, or your colour printer could only print in b&w. Ok, this is more of a CUPS issue rather than a Mandrake.

With Mandrake (if you can get over all those stoned looking Penguins) I have gtk crash so often....SuSE too is bleeding edge, yet there's is far more stable...What gives?

I would not believe that there single distro sales, but rather combining the sales of MacMillan books too.

Re:Fisher (2)

StarTux (230379) | more than 13 years ago | (#395066)

Why is it called Wolverine one may ask...? I think I have the answer...There will be some new alpha program that will Bite everyone up the a@#! Those Wolverines are vicious, they may look cute and cuddly... Everyone is already getting bitten by the effects of GCC 2.96 with code that will not compile on other distrobutions!

KT133 & 2.4+ (2)

LtFiend (232003) | more than 13 years ago | (#395068)

Has anyone gotten the KT133 chipset working with ANY HD's? I have a Abit KT7-Raid and after compiling 2.4 I get MASSIVE drive corruption. I've tried turning DMA off and it seems to help a little but last night the ystem locked again and now it won't complete a fsck. (same as what used to happen very quickly when DMA modes was on? FYI I'm, using a maxtor DMA-100 Drive that I'd like to use on the HPT370 Controller once I solve the corruption problems.

Quality: so-so (1)

OlympicSponsor (236309) | more than 13 years ago | (#395071)

On the one hand, it's nice to see people using the old "my distro is better than yours" standby.

On the other hand, distro wars are pretty old hat now.

Anyway, good luck starting your "discussion".
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot

Re:As the old saying goes.... (1)

rppp01 (236599) | more than 13 years ago | (#395072)

I dunno. I reinstalled my linux box a month ago and put mandrake 7.2 on it (I wanted ReiserFS support out of box) and the only problems I had were with XFdrake (read: why the hell don't they include XF86Setup?).

I do pull a few rpms down, but now I mostly compile any software I download. You are right, rpm's suck shit for dependencies, but if you can ignore these and compile your own shit, its all good.

Mandrake (1)

iomud (241310) | more than 13 years ago | (#395074)

Kid tested, mother approved.
It's an operating system not a cartoon guys can we mature the graphics a little? I am and probably always will be a loyal debian [debian.org] user.

Re:Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (1)

theridersofrohan (241712) | more than 13 years ago | (#395076)

however stability doesn't really matter so much on home machines. As long as it can stay up for a couple of hours then it is good enough.
Funny, I thought that the instability of windows as a desktop OS is one of the major factors pushing people to Linux.
Three hours stability is unacceptable to me. My laptop's uptime at the moment is 27 hours.

Betas? Version numbers? (1)

imevil (260579) | more than 13 years ago | (#395092)

I though that beta distribs and high version numbers were a Windows characteristic.

Global linux beta distribs began about 1 year ago (not sure, please correct me if the case!), but you can find a pioneer in that: RedHat produced some kind-of-betas something like 2 years ago.

I think that says a lot about the linux trend.

I can't find a distrib I completely like anymore.

... heavy ... holes ... sec holes ... too much useless stuff ... Debian!
No, that's hard to install...


Finally, a distro with a 2.4 kernel (1)

mjfrazer (305120) | more than 13 years ago | (#395100)

Time to upgrade from 7.0 distro.

[mark@pacific mark]$ cat /etc/issue.net
Welcome to %h
Linux Mandrake release 7.0 (Air)
Kernel 2.2.14-15mdk on an i686
[mark@pacific mark]$ uname -a
Linux pacific 2.2.14-15mdk #3 Sun Jan 30 15:38:24 EST 2000 i686 unknown
[mark@pacific mark]$ uptime
12:45pm up 372 days, 3:37, 10 users, load average: 0.15, 0.14, 0.09
[mark@pacific mark]$

Mandrake 8.0 beta is best for the home (3)

Urban Existentialist (307726) | more than 13 years ago | (#395103)

I have tried many distros, including SuSE, Debian, Red Hat, Corel and Caldera. Out of all the distro's I have tried, it seems clear to me that Mandrake is best for the home user. It not good for business or in a server environment due to stability issues (it is so bleeding edge it is untrue), however stability doesn't really matter so much on home machines. As long as it can stay up for a couple of hours then it is good enough.

One wonders why the other distro's have so much difficulty equaling Mandrake in this arena? People like Debian and Red Hat are too purist in their respective fields to ever really become popular in the home, however as their users have accepted this it does not matter, I suppose. Still, such lack of ambition in the arena is startling.

The bleeding edge and easy to use nature of Mandrake is why it has 28% of the marketplace. More power to them, I say, and hopefully other distro's will take a leaf out of their book.

You know exactly what to do-
Your kiss, your fingers on my thigh-

Re:Fisher (1)

jpetzold (319053) | more than 13 years ago | (#395109)

who cares I am not using Red Hat untill they are using a stadard compiler. gcc2.96 is full of fetures that will not be supported in 3.0 and will therefore break any program that uses it, if the person wants to move that program to another machine.

Re:What in the hell are you talking about. (1)

jpetzold (319053) | more than 13 years ago | (#395111)

what do you mean "what the hell am I talking about?"

there was a whole discusion on that back when RH 7.0 was released.

Re:Version inflation? Sorry, it's not the case... (2)

MentalPunisher2001 (320024) | more than 13 years ago | (#395117)

None of it worse than 3.11 -> 95 (Windows) There's a hell of a jump. Or maybe 4 -> 2000 (Windows NT).

2.4 Kernel (2)

UnfrozenCavemanCoder (320750) | more than 13 years ago | (#395119)

I'm just a caveman. I fell on some ice and later got thawed out by some of your scientists.

Your world frightens and confuses me! When I order an espresso at StarBucks, I think that the foam on top is the saliva of a rabid mammoth! Sometimes when I drive my Ferrari at the racetrack on weekends, I wonder, "Are there little men inside running really, really, fast?"

My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts. But there is one thing I do know -- the 2.4 kernel still does not support my Zip Drive or USB joystick. This is really annoying to me, a primitive caveman, because I it makes it difficult to work on my flight-control systems source code from work under a familiar UNIX-style environment. Instead, I have to copy the code from my Windows machine with a working Zip drive, copy over the gigabit ethernet in my primitive, caveman home, and then copy the compiled executables back in order to test the tolerances. Even my feeble, confused mind can recognize that USB support in the 2.4 kernel is a necessity!

Thank you.

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