Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Europe Agrees To Send Airline Passenger Data To US

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the naming-names dept.

Privacy 403

Qedward writes "The European Parliament has approved the controversial data transfer agreement, the bilateral PNR (passenger name register), with the US which requires European airlines to pass on passenger information, including name, contact details, payment data, itinerary, email and phone numbers to the Department of Homeland Security. Under the new agreement, PNR data will be 'depersonalized' after six months and would be moved into a 'dormant database' after five years. However the information would still be held for a further 15 years before being fully 'anonymized.'"

cancel ×

403 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Why? (5, Insightful)

Zapotek (1032314) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743051)

Why comply? What would the US do, deny entrance to all EU citizens?
Anyone care to explain this?

Re:Why? (0)

SecurityTheatre (2427858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743061)

Do you not love your country, citizen?

How dare you threaten our safety for your selfish goals. Freedom... posh...

Re:Why? (5, Insightful)

polar red (215081) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743063)

deny entrance to all EU citizens?

this agreement has the same effect on me - I will never travel to the US.

Re:Why? (4, Informative)

Little_Professor (971208) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743645)

This ruling shares all PNR data collected within Europe. It doesn't matter whether you are travelling to the US or to Botswana, your details have been stored and now will be handed over to the USA.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743065)

Why comply? What would the US do, deny entrance to all EU citizens?

Yes.

Re:Why? (1)

crutchy (1949900) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743485)

they are on the hunt for more ways (other than the patriot act) to cripple their already unsustainable economy and drive intelligent people and companies away. this seems like a fairly natural progression.

makes me wonder what the endgame will be? the US seems like its determined to implode in on itself

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743073)

I was thinking the same thing. Also, US airlines pass passenger information to EU?

Re:Why? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743077)

The article says that's exactly what the US threatened. To require a visa for any European entering the US. I think if I were an EU politician, I would be inclined to threaten to do exactly the same to them. But apparently two thirds of them disagree with me. Pity.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743205)

Two thirds are bought by them.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743089)

Deny entrance and stop European aircraft from flying over US
I have no citation for this but remember reading about it a few weeks ago
If anyone has a source or correction pls do post it

Re:Why? (4, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743203)

Umm... last time I checked my globe US airlines could be hurt by a European No-Fly Zone more than Euro planes would suffer from No-US-flight zones.

In a nutshell, do you really want to fly across Libya to get to Iraq? Or do the trans-sibirian trip to Moscow?

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

peppepz (1311345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743413)

I suspect that for being inside NATO, most countries of the EU have much stronger obligations towards the USA than letting their planes fly over them.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743183)

Why comply? What would the US do, deny entrance to all EU citizens?

Anyone care to explain this?

Screw the freakin yanks bunch of tossers think the own the freakin world they are fuck all but trouble time for a nofly zone over large parts of the world for yanky tanky aircraft ..

Re:Why? (1)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743199)

Because they get data in return. Because half the EU doesn't care at all.

Paranoid (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743225)

The US are paranoid and they are dragging every other country to their level. Someone somewhere has to stand up to these brow beaters . Guess it's not the European wimps.

Re:Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743259)

US carries a big economic stick and uses it liberally, although our days are numbered.

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

polar red (215081) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743349)

the EU's stick is bigger, GNP-wise.

Re:Why? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743533)

But the will to wield it is lesser. Also, you might think me naive but the US acts more often in its own self-interest to the detriment of anyone else than does the EU. The EU tends to negotiate win-win agreements to a somewhat greater degree.

I suspect the EU politicians aren't quite as thoroughly bought yet but that will change. Especially if the representatives from France and Britain are anything to go by.

Re:Why? (4, Insightful)

Another, completely (812244) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743581)

It's an unwillingness to work together. Most European countries prefer to negotiate trade agreements individually whenever possible. Look at the power the EU should have when negotiating with Russia for natural gas, and compare it to how Russia has split the EU up into individual arrangements. If the EU made some general economic move against the U.S.A., then the individual members would see it as an opportunity to make special exceptions in exchange for some sort of return that prefers them over other EU members.

Re:Why? (3, Informative)

Evtim (1022085) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743503)

Economic stick? I think the stick has slightly different nature [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures]

Re:Why? (0)

hsjserver (1826682) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743459)

I imagine that the US could put a lot of pressure on the EU pretty easily with the amount of economic ties the two regions have together. Not to mention that I doubt the Europeans are all that upset about expanding their own security states as this is a convenient excuse for both to do so.

Re:Why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743549)

I imagine that the US could put a lot of pressure on the EU pretty easily with the amount of economic ties the two regions have together.

That works both ways, the US can't put much economic pressure on Europe without hurting its own economy.

Not to mention that I doubt the Europeans are all that upset about expanding their own security states as this is a convenient excuse for both to do so.

Yes, obviously, if with Europeans you mean those in power.
I won't be going to the US any time soon while your TSA/DHS is still in effect, this is just an extra reason not to go. (Not that I have a reason to go in the first place)

Anyway, if I want to fly a plane in some US buildings, I won't be taking off from anywhere in Europe. Plenty of places to fly from that have no security/security theater, specially when a westerner wants to fly to the US.

Re:Why? (5, Insightful)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743631)

I think they basically blackmailed the EU, threatening to require Visa for all Europeans, announcing special controls and harassment of European travelers if they EU would not comply, etc.

It is well-known European politicians have no backbone and comply to US demands any time when a tiny bit of pressure is put on them. There are numerous examples and this is just one of them. :(

Lisa. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743053)

I would like to buy your rock.

Re:Lisa. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743095)

Let the bears pay the bear tax. I pay the Homer tax!

creepy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743057)

thats creepy...

Good job! (4, Insightful)

Tastecicles (1153671) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743069)

Yet another reason for me not to set foot on an aircraft bound for the United States.

Seriously, you had me sold at having to remove my shoes at check-in.

Re:Good job! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743113)

Hope you don't want to fly to Canada or Mexico either, or any place where you might get within spitting distance of US airspace.

Re:Good job! (1)

siddesu (698447) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743249)

I haven't been on one since I was for the first/last time ransacked by TSA thugs on a flight to Taipei, which I thought was a Taiwanese airline, but turned out to be a Northworst code sharing.

I have survived without problems and look at the huge queues of fat people with opened suitcases with amusement every time I board a plane.

Re:Good job! (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743121)

Hey don't think lots of us don't agree (although fewer that would be required to see a change!). Unfortunately many of us may not have the qualifications to emigrate anywhere, and additionally, many of us who have investigated have found that we'd just be trading one set of sucky rules for another slightly different set, one which we may be less adept at avoiding treading across.

Personally I'm giving it up to another 5 years, but if things haven't dramatically changed by then, there's going to be little hope of finding somewhere safe and freedom loving to move, because thanks to global treaties it's all being equalized out, such that there's no place to run, and an ever dwindling number of places to hide. (Unless y'know, you're a criminal with good connections, rich (with good connections), or just not being worth the trouble to follow (which only works until you suddenly pop up on the radar and you never know what might lead to that, a year making too much money, complaining about the wrong person, voicing the wrong opinion. Or if you're really stupid, going out and being part of a protest.)

Captcha was 'revoke', like when your civilian rights are revoked because they transfer you out of the country to 'question' you.

Re:Good job! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743127)

I thought we had already told the US to stuff it but now they get their way again like a spoiled kid. I hate this. It will be a long time before I will visit the US by plane. I'd rather fly to Canada and drive over the border. Arrogant country, the US.

Re:Good job! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743531)

They fingerprint on land borders as well.

Re:Good job! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743613)

They get access to those records too. They also get access to PNR information that isn't covered by the agreement, but the DHS agrees to delete that information as soon as it is received (yeah right). PNR of flights within the EU or to other countries *are* covered by the agreement, if the airline also flies to the US. In other words: If you fly with an international airline that offers flights in the EU and in the US, the US gets to track you worldwide.

Re:Good job! (2)

davester666 (731373) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743129)

You also have to make sure your flight doesn't fly close to the US or any of it's territories [including 200 miles offshore].

Re:Good job! (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743213)

Who said anything about that data being limited to flights that go to the US?

Not only bound to US? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743251)

The article does not mention that they get data from flights "bound for the US". I would assume they get all flight data to and from Europe.

It's bilateral so we get all data from US flights, but that is not exactly a good deal as Europe does not have similar intelligence needs (being collection of countries) as opposed to US.

What routes? And why transfer data at all? (5, Insightful)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743371)

Yet another reason for me not to set foot on an aircraft bound for the United States.

Might make no difference... The way I'm reading the article, it says "requires European airlines to pass on passenger information", without going into detail about whether that's US-bound flights only, flights within the EU, flights from EU to outside EU (but not US), or even any flight, from/to anywhere, done by an EU-based airline company. It would be good if someone could clear this up.

Secondly I don't see why passenger data would need to be transferred to US control at all. It's really naive to assume that the US will handle such data as agreed. Good chance it will end up in multiple databases, and possibly used at will (since under US control), in violation of agreement. What safeguards has the EU to the contrary? Any?

Of course the US wants some persons not to board an airplane, why not arrange for the US to provide that watchlist to an EU-controlled organization that checks this watchlist against passenger data? Flag & possibly take action on matches, data for people that don't set off any flags then wouldn't need to be transferred to the US (that is, other than what's done already in US-bound flights).

All this reads to me as: EU doesn't care about its citizens' privacy & lets itself be bullied by the US. Annoying - the EU is not even 1 sovereign nation, it's a whole group of sovereign nations. Combined a bigger population than the US. Our politicians should really show some more backbone.

Fuck this. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743075)

It's bad enough that we Americans are tracked everywhere we go, now my government thinks it's okay to force Europe into submission too?!

Fuck this. Fuck the non-violent protests. Fuck it all. It just may be time for an ARMED revolution.

Re:Fuck this. Fuck EVERYTHING about this (5, Insightful)

Zsub (1365549) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743123)

First Europe sends banking info, passenger info, what will come? And there, for a moment, I believed Europe stopped being America's bitch. I'm voting... No wait, I don't know what or who I'm voting, because all parties I somewhat agree with agree with this shit. Fuck.

Re:Fuck this. Fuck EVERYTHING about this (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743141)

Vore for your local Pirate Party. I've heard they're at 12% in the polls in Germany. Let's repeat that in all our European countries. EU is not a state in the US.

Re:Fuck this. Fuck EVERYTHING about this (2)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743219)

Pretty much the only option, if only because they didn't really make a statement about that crap yet and they're generally in favor of privacy.

Re:Fuck this. Fuck EVERYTHING about this (1)

lxs (131946) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743535)

It's a shame that the majority of Pirate Parties are run by people with no political acumen. Unless they grow up quickly, they will never be more than a single issue party. The German PP for instance seems to be torn by scandal and internal conflict. When pressed on national television their spokesman had to admit that his party had no position on the situation in Syria.
Here in the Netherlands the only noteworthy thing the PP has done in the past three years is putting up a Pirate Bay proxy. If this post comes across as bitter, it's because I feel foolish for having voted for a small activist group that has disguised itself as a political party.

Re:Fuck this. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743547)

Fuck this. Fuck the non-violent protests. Fuck it all. It just may be time for an ARMED revolution.

Typical slashtard; talks big, but probably can't even load and shoot a firearm, much less use one in a real fight.

"Anonymized" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743105)

Commonly when EU says data is anonymized -- it does not mean what you think.
It is a nice sounding word used to quiet criticts. In practice data can be anonymized and later de-anonymized when needed.

Clarify (2)

Ultra64 (318705) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743107)

Is this just for flights coming into the US?

Or all flights in EU?

Re:Clarify (3, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743231)

Take a wild guess.

Hint: If there's a "worse" option in such bullshit ideas, it's the correct one.

Re:Clarify (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743253)

From what I was reading elsewhere this will apply to EVERY flight booked in EU. But soon this will be most of the western countries like AU, NZ, etc. Im in america and hate this. Our country has been taken over and we are all being subject to this shit. Our freedoms/rights are taken away every passing day to the point now that TSA is now being placed in undercover plain clothes on metro buses to do random bus stop bag searches. We are really this bad off to the point if something big enough happens I firmly believe we might see another Nazi type activity. We have a congress whos been bought out a long time ago that is now trying to do the bidding on big corporations and force itself on the rest of the world. Big bankers are behind most of it to take control of things and bring about their New World Order. A single source of money from them being private bankers. Federal Reserve is about as Federal as Federal Express. Federal Reserve is a collection of private bankers who lend money to the USA and then we pay interest to them for it. $1+interest can=$5,$10, or $100. I know you guys think its crazy because it is. Federal Reserve is private. Look it up.

Re:Clarify (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743573)

Well, that's live as one of the goyim! Now shut up and get back to work, servant!

Sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743109)

Actually the US was going to Bar all Foreign Air lines from landing in to the US or Flying over US territory if they did not agree.

Yay for selling out (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743111)

Because we get so much back, of course. Mostly implausibly deemed undesirables on the return plane, but hey, gift horses and all that.

As a European, I for one welcome.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743125)

our new United States Homeland Security overlords... wait..WTF? lol
Fellow Europeans, brace yourselves for Commi Nazi (u deserve it). We spawned them into creation in the first place.

Re:As a European, I for one welcome.. (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743237)

Guess the US won't come this time to "liberate" us. And my hopes for France and England ain't much higher.

Think the Russians might?

Re:As a European, I for one welcome.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743315)

The Russians have a better and more recent memory of what this kind of thing leads to. So not the craziest idea I've ever heard.

And by "depersonalized" and "dormant" they mean... (5, Insightful)

matunos (1587263) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743155)

...absolutely nothing.

Police state (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743157)

I am an european citizen travelling extensively in the US, so I should know a thing or two about the police state.

1.Does this go both ways in equal fashion?
2.Why don't we require visas, or at least iq/civilisation tests for americans anyway?

Re:Police state (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743241)

1. Good one. You're a stand up, right?
2. The idea was on the table, but the tourist lobby whined that then we can say good-bye to any kind of US tourists.

Re:Police state (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743339)

US Tourists are the kind that complain about nudity in old paintings, we can well do without them.

Re:Police state (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743393)

You kidding? That's the reason they come here in the first place!

Sure, they complain about it, but they come and look, so who cares if they're complaining? They have to complain to display their moral outrage while they take pictures for later use... and of course I mean they only want to document the debauchery and perversion.

Re:Police state (0)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743641)

Yanks contribute countless millions of euros a year to your collapsing economy though. :)

Re:Police state (1, Troll)

d3vi1 (710592) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743445)

Most americans will be quite happy with just seeing the Grand Canyon and Hawaii, once in their lifetime, in clear contrast with Europeans that make it one of their biggest achievements stepping on each continent and seeing a bit of each of the now 27 countries in the EU.
At least most of us can name more than half the EU states. Can't imagine Americans being able to name more than 10 of theirs.

Re:Police state (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743595)

Most of you are only good for whining and trying to get useless government jobs or subsidies. Have fun sucking Chinese cock, they won't be anywhere nearly as tolerant of you pansies once they buy half of Europe. European art and bitches will end up in the pleasure palaces in China.

Re:Police state (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743623)

You mean like, say, your companies?

When I look around myself, look at our companies and how they're run, I guess we have less to fear from China than the US. Money ain't everything here, and the Chinese don't have much to offer except money.

As this violates... (5, Interesting)

w4rl5ck (531459) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743167)

... the German "constitution" (actually we dont have one, its called Grundgesetz, but never the less) and some public laws in Germany, I'm curious how the German government is thinking to get away with letting this pass.

In other words: German people have a government guaranty that something like this does never happen with their data. Go one "democratic" level up, and that's gone - cant happen.

I'm curious how far this is in line with the (interpreting of) the EU constitution (which is finally in place for a few years, but that took some kind of precaution to make sure it's vague enough here and there...).

If the pirate party jumps on this, things will likely go crazy.

Re:As this violates... (5, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743245)

Same way the internet police state law (aka "Vorratsdatenspeicherung") was treated. It will be implemented and then they pray and hope it survives the Constitution Court.

Re:As this violates... (1)

bkmoore (1910118) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743323)

The German Grundgesetz as any other constitution is malleable. You can stretch it out when its convenient. In the end, the constitution isn't really worth the paper its printed on. Yes, I'm thinking about the never-ending Euro bailouts, along with all the crazy laws that America is intent on exporting.

Re:As this violates... (2)

cdrnet (1582149) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743347)

It's interesting how a lot of Germans cry out loud when the EU overrides some of their laws and make them give up a tiny bit of data privacy, while at the same time they (together with the French) try very hard to force other EU members like Austria (and also non-EU nations like Switzerland) to completely give up their *banking data* privacy.

Re:As this violates... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743451)

just made me remember my 4chan days...

"scheisse woar so schilling"

Re:As this violates... (5, Informative)

peppepz (1311345) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743517)

This law is about creating an automated database of the movements of every single citizen to be sent to a foreign power, which is known for having little respect for foreigners, to the point of kidnapping people even inside the EU and torturing them.

On the other hand, I can't think of a single reason why I wouldn't want the government to know how much money I have in the bank, unless it's coming from illegal activities. What could a deranged government do with that information? Make me pay taxes?

Re:As this violates... (1)

El Torico (732160) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743643)

On the other hand, I can't think of a single reason why I wouldn't want the government to know how much money I have in the bank, unless it's coming from illegal activities. What could a deranged government do with that information? Make me pay taxes?

How about seizing your assets? It's only a matter of time before governments resort to massive confiscation in order to pay for itself. In the US it's already being done in the name of "The War on Terror" or "The War on Drugs". In Europe it's done as "Tax Enforcement".
Soon governments will be auditing and seizing the assets of anyone who isn't powerful enough to either move their money and themselves quickly out of harm's way or use influence to redirect the terror against someone else.

Fucking LIES (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743197)

All data, no matter how inane, once it enters the Defense department is kept verbatim forever. Any claims of altering this information after a period of time, is a complete lie.

Sounds like a disaster (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743217)

This sounds like a complete and utter disaster.
We already saw how well the "No Fly Lists" worked. Those did nothing except horribly inconvenience the lives of many innocent people who happen to have the same names as terrorists.
This will just end up with random people with unlucky names getting the Jack Bauer treatment.

Robbery - or exchange? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743223)

What did EU get in return? There seems to be much focus on what went to the US, but what went the other way - visa-free travel?

Good news for non USA-based conference facilities (4, Insightful)

knarf (34928) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743239)

This should be good news for conference facilities (hotels, etc) outside the USA, and - conversely - bad news for USA-based operations. When faced with the choice of where to locate a conference or other mass gathering of like spirits, it will be much less attractive to choose a location within the USA, simply because there will be fewer attendants willing to subject themselves to these laws. Since these laws seem to apply to USA air space as well - meaning that any flight which enters USA airspace has to have its passenger details registered with the USA authorities, even if the flight never lands in the USA - I guess Canada and Mexico are not good alternatives.

I foresee a booming business for Iceland-based conference facilities :-)

Good news for non USA-based conference facilities (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743433)

I missed the part in the summary and in my cursory glance of the article where they said this was limited to passengers traveling to the U.S. I suspect this is the case (that only data for passengers to the U.S. is required), but the article never actually says that.

Re:Good news for non USA-based conference faciliti (1)

Kergan (780543) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743651)

It also applies to Canada and Mexico. The US gets your data if you travel to either from the EU, regardless of whether you fly over the US or not.

Europe "agrees" ... (1)

yvesdandoy (44789) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743285)

did they really have the choice ???

Agreeing is accepting to do something when you are asked "please", right ?

This is not agreement, this is bending under pressure, which is quite different.

Only one-way transfer? (5, Interesting)

Rotaluclac (561178) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743317)

Europe sends data about all financial transactions to the US. Does the US send data about all financial transactions to Europe?

Europe sends data about all airline passengers to the US. Does the US send data about all airline passengers to Europe?

Long ago I thought we were equal. Obviously, one of us is more equal than the other

Re:Only one-way transfer? (2, Interesting)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743555)

Long ago I thought we were equal. Obviously, one of us is more equal than the other

The degree of equality depends on the size of the stick you carry and whether or not you have a spine to make tough decisions. Our recent crops of leaders in Europe have been and still are a bunch of pussies, which has been amply demonstrated by the way they have handled all manner of crisis over the last few years starting with the how they let genocide go on for several years in the former Yugoslavia (before the Americans finally kicked them in their collective ass and forced them to solve that problem in the only way Milosevic and his ilk respected) and right up to the current Euro crisis. They seem to have no spine to do what is staring them in the face which is kick Greece and other countries that are incapable of fiscal responsibility out of the Euro zone before it disintegrates.

Re:Only one-way transfer? (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743609)

In that case you should kick France and Germany out of the Euro zone as well, since they were among the first to break the fiscal responsibility pact they wrote themselves!

Re:Only one-way transfer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743621)

I actually agree with Your first sentence and strongly disagree with the part about the Balkan war. There was no genocide, there were war crimes (like in the american war as well). The massive bombing of Serbia did not solve the problems which caused the war, it actually prolonged its duration, so it lasts in little colder manner until now.

Re:Only one-way transfer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743561)

Is there anything in US history that would make you think that any agreement it enters into would be equal?

Even half the comments here on /. whenever someone points this out are something like "it's not a popularity contest" and "every state acts solely in its own best interest", both of which are quite brilliant insights into how americans think.

Your papers please (4, Insightful)

subreality (157447) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743325)

... Now without paper or even needing to ask.

things are worse (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743337)

There is a worse problem concerning data exchange between the US and some of the EU countries. The exchange of criminal records are a lot more troubling than this. On one side it helps to undermine international organised crime, on the other side it is quite easy to get a police record in some countries. Just drive to fast and voila insta police profile. Get your own bike stolen, and tell it the police, and again, the americans get your data...

Anonymous Cowards (1)

r0ball (1848426) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743363)

I've never seen so many anonymous posts...it's almost like you don't trust us. Them! I mean trust them.....

Re:Anonymous Cowards (1)

Kergan (780543) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743665)

Maybe the US is becoming the new China?

They'll take a copy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743411)

The idea that this data will be discarded is some kind of joke. They'll just take a copy and anonymize the copy that EU is aware of. No country will ever follow such gentlemens agreements when they spend trillions capturing as much data as possible ON THEIR OWN CITIZENS and their own laws permit secret information gathering on foreigners. Treaties are not laws, there is no penalty to them for copying that data and putting it into the big database they've built.

Also if you look at US legislation they're passing, they want to make it easier for them to trawl all data held by US ISPs. Do you think they won't just trawl the credit card database the way they ALREADY do now?

I read tfa (1)

fortunato (106228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743439)

So I read the freaking article and I don't see what the U.S. is giving in return. It's all about what EU has to give up as far as info and such. I find it hard to believe this passed on the EU end without the U.S. sharing at least the same information. Is there an article somewhere that explains the whole deal? Or is this all there is?

Keep piling on the pressure to US businesess (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743441)

Keep piling on the pressure to US businesses: each time I get an invite of a US business for a seminar, conference etc I email them back: sorry unable to attend as a result of TSA and government rules: despite the fact that I would like to visit, invest and holiday in your country, I am NOT willing to subject my family and myself to cancer, sexual harassment or criminal measures (giving bank details and fingerprinting? That is for criminals only!!).
I also mention that eg Israel does not use these scanners or TSA nazi tactics ...

As far as the US data go: they get the same treatment as the EU: new bank account and address (PO box) every year and lots and lots of third party payments ... deal with that bitches.

We, the free people, can win this, but we need to stick together and we need more leverage: what we need is a new religion, based upon freedom, privacy and respect a religion that requires third party payments for all payments and that forbids fingerprinting or harassment/invasion of privacy ... all I need now is a cool name and then we need to get some puppets to push for recognition of this religion ... (if scientology can do this, so can we!)

Bully (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743447)

This reminds me of the David and Goliath story. Currently I am waiting for David to appear. Then tits up for the bullies.

Most people won't care: they love America (3, Interesting)

fantomas (94850) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743465)

Most people coming to the USA on holiday to see Mickey Mouse won't care. They really won't spend too long thinking about it, and it won't bother them too much. They trust the US government. They've already bought into the American Dream, they are coming for their holidays because they believe the USA is a wonderful place. The thing that will really bother these people will be if they feel unduly harrassed entering the country by customs etc.

The second large group coming to the USA will be business people, and they will be pragmatic: they will put up with the hassle and the sharing of information if it wins their company business.

I think only a small minority of people will object: those that can are sufficiently bothered and are able to take their business elsewhere (can find a US equivalent to work with) or will want to holiday elsewhere because they are unhappy with this information sharing. I don't think this is a large group of people. I suppose the important question is whether their loss to the USA is important to the well being of the USA.

Re:Most people won't care: they love America (4, Insightful)

Cimexus (1355033) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743519)

I only "holiday" in the US because half my family is there and it's nice to see them once in a while. Of course, I always have to visit them ... they can never visit me because US employers seem to give them 30 seconds vacation time every decade or some such and they can never get off work to visit.

It does piss me off that only one entity on earth has my fingerprints - the US Government. Notwithstanding that fingerprinting is reserved only for criminals in the rest of the civilised world, not even my OWN government has mine - but that of a foreign country does? Grr.

Re:Most people won't care: they love America (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743553)

By now the whole world has your fingerprints. I'm sure they share official with some countries. But under the radar your fingerprints are all over the place.

Sorry.

Re:Most people won't care: they love America (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743661)

My concern is that the big consumer tech companies are helping to facilitate the spying on everyone.. unlock your phone with your face, have Siri listen to your words and learn what you are interested in and sound like, have the search engines know what you are interested in, phone and payment card companies log and report where they are each second of the day etc.. I had a friend in a senior government position of a wealthy asian nation who told me that one lunchtime the nerd in the office across the hall showed a computer screen which displayed records of every activity, location and interaction my friend had engaged with the previous day.

Re:Most people won't care: they love America (1)

Vlado (817879) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743543)

I partially agree with you.

I don't think that people love America, necessarily. They simply don't care about this kind of reporting or they may not even know that it's going on.

When the fingerprinting and photo-taking at the border entry started to take place there was indignation. How may fewer people are going to the US because of that?

When TSA related issues have started to become more and more publicized there was indignation. How many fewer people are going to the US because of that?

Now we have this. Again there's indignation. Does anyone seriously believe that there is going to be any noticeable drop in amount of people visiting US after this?

I don't think so.
Like you said: people will either go for vacation and not really care or they will HAVE to go there for business and suffer through it, because they won't have a choice.
And on top of it: do you really think that the information that we're talking about here is not something that the US is getting from you anyway? When you enter the US you have to fill out the registration form or apply for visa. They get all the info then. When you are at the border they scan your passport, fingerprints and take a photo of you.
what happens now is simply that they may have some of that info slightly earlier than they would otherwise.

I'm not saying it's right. I don't believe that this is something that should be required. Especially from the country that is supposed to be all about freedom.
What I'm saying is that I don't see a good way to change it and on top of it people don't really care...
So it will keep on happening. :-(

Re:Most people won't care: they love America (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743559)

I suppose the important question is whether their loss to the USA is important to the well being of the USA.

No, the important question is how long will it take for the people to wake up and get rid of the puppets that passed this agreement. By approving this Europe shows once again it is nothing but a vassal of the US.

Re:Most people won't care: they love America (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743565)

I think you are underestimating the growing dislike for the US laws. I already stopped taking vacations in the US year ago when one of your laws restricted a friend of mine to enter your country. He had been a member of a left wing political party for a few years. Which seemed to be enough to condemn him, like your own senators and US born babies, as a terrorist. And i'm not the only one i know who will not go to the US anymore because of it's way of thinking. I can garantee your tourisme is suffering, even if the average american might think we all love you guys. And as more of these kind of 'deals' and laws are made public, more people will just choose other locations to go to.

My company also restricted travel to the US to essential travel only. The administration requirements just aren't worth it. It also doesn't help that one of our most senior managers spend 2 months getting approved to get into the US because his name is arabic. I fully understand the need to protect the US against outside attacks, but too many 'normal' people are disproportionately burdened and hindered.

Re:Most people won't care: they love America (2)

l3v1 (787564) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743579)

Most people coming to the USA on holiday to see Mickey Mouse won't care

It's not about who doesn't care at the moment.

It's about: if things are going in this direction now, what will we have in 10-20-30 years? See, now that's what's scary

Now, my feeling is that all this data collection can hurt much more the average traveller, than the bad guys. Think of people who fly a lot here and there (including me, lot inside the EU and quite frequently to the US), and suddenly this automated tracking system they have pops their names up for one or the other reason (e.g. fly too frequently, spend too little time in one place or the other, god forbid they happened to go to some "suspicious" country, and so on) and from then on their lives will be miserable if they want to go to the US.

As always, thjis won't bother the bad guys, because they can probably do the necessary precautions, as always. But those hundreds or thousands of average people who can get hassled because of some algorithm with 0.x percentage error rate, now that won't be fun.

We should just fire all the EU's p*sy poiliticians who won't even consider applying the same standards towards other countries and their citizens that they are being subjected to.

Enough already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743591)

Why is the USA trying to turn the whole world into a totalitarian state?

If their own citizens don't rebel in a civil war soon then I hope the rest of the world will invade this upstart and knock them out of the picture.

email ... (1)

giorgist (1208992) | more than 2 years ago | (#39743627)

Well at least on the email front, I may not supply my legitimate one.
On the other hand, all they have to do is identify me, match that the email I supplied is not my proper one and flag me

damned if you do ...

Screw it ... I will never go, if I have the option

I don't care, I'm not coming to the US (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39743629)

Why should I? Salaries are low, at least if compared to my country (Sweden), they don't have a decent welfare and healthcare system, they're full of immigrants from the third world and their women are usually fat and ugly.

It's so funny to see a country where the government is so obsessed with security issues, while the average income is only 35K per year. It's like a factory worker who is concerned about inflation in the prices of yachts.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?