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YouTube Ordered To Remove Videos, Filter Future Uploads By German Court

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the germany-sets-precedent dept.

EU 215

suraj.sun sends this excerpt from Deutsche Welle: "YouTube was told by a regional court in Hamburg on Friday not to display seven out of 12 contested clips without permission from the German copyright fee collecting society Gema. Gema claimed that its members were losing money every time their music was being displayed on YouTube. A proper licensing fee between the two sides expired in 2009. The Hamburg State Court ruled YouTube would in future have to install an efficient mechanism to filter out such content uploaded by users or face a fine of up to 250,000 euros ($330,000) for each case, or up to six months imprisonment. Knowing that a foolproof filter system looks next to impossible, Gema is now hoping that Google will finally agree to a new bilateral licensing treaty whereby the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched."

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Just withdraw from Germany. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747497)

I hope that Google plays hardball, and simply blacks out Youtube for Germany. The resulting user outcry would then be turned against Gema.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (5, Funny)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747543)

They don't need to go that far. They can just make it so that no matter what video you click on you get rickrolled.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747579)

Never Gonna Give You Up is a licensed work and as such, Google would still have to pay Gema for every Rickroll.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747627)

Yeah, but it'd be worth it to preserve that great song & video for all eternity.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (2)

yt8znu35 (1202731) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747589)

This won't happen.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (5, Insightful)

BenJury (977929) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747685)

Why not? If the income generated from YouTube in Germany is less than the fines they are facing, why not pull out? Replacing the page with how the German electorate can let their elected representative know how they feel about it would work wonders.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747767)

Because FRAND rules would allow *everyone* the same deal, to get a cut of Google's revenues.

Does FRAND apply? (3, Informative)

LordZardoz (155141) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747869)

I had no idea what FRAND was, but a wikipedia search indicates it covers patents. This is a copyright dispute, not a patent dispute.

END COMMUNICATION

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39748121)

Because that would seriously damage the Google brand in Germany and people might start using alternative services for things like maps and e-mail. Remember that Google is supposed to put the user first, even if it doesn't seem so anymore.

--
Fuck Sundar Pichai in the ass!

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (4, Interesting)

Luckyo (1726890) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748261)

Because income from YouTube in Germany is likely multiple orders of magnitude bigger then fine for individual infringement. You're forgetting that country is an economic powerhouse that is one of the very few places in the world that keeps on growing at a decent rate even in current economic climate with a lot of users that are wealthy enough to be desirable targets for premium advertising.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (4, Informative)

rainmouse (1784278) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748049)

This won't happen.

Why not? Something similar already happened in the UK with Youtube regarding music performer royalties and other demands for lots of cash.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7933565.stm [bbc.co.uk]

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

John Holmes (2619159) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747613)

Simply remove it from the Internet: update your /etc/hosts file.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (5, Interesting)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747655)

I hope that Google plays hardball, and simply blacks out Youtube for Germany. The resulting user outcry would then be turned against Gema.

You don't have to go that far. Since they're only concerned about MUSIC, all Google has to do is give German viewers a different audio track. Maybe saying something like (in German and English):

"The audio for this video has been filtered by request of Gema, who may be contacted at <address (street, phone number, email)>."

Have it repeat the entire video length (in both languages). I'd say replacing the audio portion of the video with that message is an efficient filter. YouTube still serves up the video and blames Gema for the mess.

Do it for all videos seen by German viewers.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747733)

Only if you can get David Hasselhoff to sing it.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (3, Funny)

stretch0611 (603238) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748101)

Only if you can get David Hasselhoff to sing it.

Put a few cheesburgers on the floor... he'll do it...

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (0, Redundant)

Terwin (412356) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747661)

If they are just concerned about music, just replace every audio portion that is returned in Germany with a voice explaining that Gema has made it impossible for YouTube to play sounds in Germany for the time being. Here is their contact information.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747723)

Does German copyright law depend on the holder's popularity?

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

s4m7 (519684) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748191)

no. not YET anyway.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747769)

Everybody already hates GEMA, that would change nothing.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747789)

Right there with you, and I'm in Germany. I have to use tor for about two videos in five anyway, so they might as well block it completely and generate some political pressure against these asshats. Pirate party's already polling at around 10% these days; a bit more blatant censorship will just make the network rights issue even bigger.

They need to do this (4, Informative)

future assassin (639396) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747861)

while its still fresh. Imagine the look on GEMA's face when all videos from Germany are blocked or better yet deleted. The applause Google would get from the rest of the world would overshadow what they would lose from cutting Germany off.

If they don't want to do that then at least

  • put all video from German IP's into a que while they look them over sloooowly for infringement
  • Disable all sound on videos uploaded from Germany with a voice over saying Thanks for GEMA all audio has been disabled ev en on your own personal family videos.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

godrik (1287354) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747863)

Please Google do this. End your monopoly in Germany and allow the rise of competitors!

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

jdgeorge (18767) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747931)

Please Google do this. End your monopoly in Germany and allow the rise of competitors!

So true! If only Bing, Yahoo, Ask, or some other search engine [ebizmba.com] were available there.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

jdgeorge (18767) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747973)

Oops; we're talking about uploading videos, not search engine. My bad.

Not that there aren't LOTS of alternatives [vimeo.com] , but many of them seem to be, shall we say, "specialized".

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747987)

What makes you think that GEMA wouldn't get the German court to force the same compliance on the competitors?

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747877)

Or how about you anarchists let civilized artists make a little money on what they make? Sometimes people on here sound like the banksters they profess to be against.

No (4, Insightful)

Weezul (52464) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748053)

Google should comply wit the court order by blocking these videos. Ideally, they should block them by redirecting users to videos by bands not controlled by Gema with a message as to why they were redirected. If the users like the redirected videos enough, well that solves the problem completely.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (1)

erroneus (253617) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748153)

I was thinking the exact same thing. Let the public do the "lobbying" for Google and get the content publishers to shut the hell up. They're out of control all over the planet and need to be taken out back if you know what I mean.

Re:Just withdraw from Germany. (2)

Nom du Keyboard (633989) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748237)

I hope that Google plays hardball, and simply blacks out Youtube for Germany. The resulting user outcry would then be turned against Gema.

They'd better do that, lest Gema resort to click-fraud/click-jacking to boost their revenues at Google's expense.

Or... (3, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747501)

Or Google could just block access to YouTube from German IPs and let them see what they've really won.

Re:Or... (4, Insightful)

SomePgmr (2021234) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747545)

I'm picturing a brutally honest landing page, explaining why.

The unfortunate part is that they can't afford to do that here in the US.

Re:Or... (0)

John Holmes (2619159) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747565)

Stop fucking using it alltogether, suck like the Facesmurf and Twatter.

Re:Or... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747603)

Knowing that a foolproof filter system looks next to impossible, Gema is now hoping that Google will finally agree to a new bilateral licensing treaty whereby the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched.

Or maaaaaybe Gema and other antique content providers can finally man up and agree to a licensing and copyright system that isn't based off of the technological limitations of the 1950s AND acknowledges the relative ease of modern content production in the hands of the common citizen.

NAAAAAAAAH. MOAR COMIC BOOK MOVIES! REBOOTS OF REBOOTS! NOW!!!1!

Re:Or... (1)

yt8znu35 (1202731) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747605)

And this won't happen either.

Re:Or... (3, Interesting)

The Moof (859402) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748055)

You keep saying that as if it's not even up for consideration. Remember the SOPA blackout day? That can, and did happen. This is just one country, and not even a country that's a primary income source for youtube, so I don't see why they wouldn't do this.

Re:Or... (3, Interesting)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747729)

They already block access to individual uploads. Interestingly they block anything GEMA lays claim to. Even Universal and BMG stuff. Even more interestingly those urge GEMA to cut the crap because they are fine with the deal Google is offering.

GEMA doesn't reprepresent the interests of those abroad they send money to. They don't represent the interests of local labels. They don't represent the interest of local artists.
Their past business model was to sue boozers that didn't pay up, kindergardens and private citizens to fuel their bloated body of wasteful red tape.

Due to GEMA unwillingness to get a deal on all things online recent contracts with artists FORBID GEMA TO SPEAK ON THEIR BEHALF TO GOOGLE AND GET STUFF BLOCKED.

Idiocy, red tape, bloated, ignorance. Chauffeur driven Maybachs. For teh starving artists :(

Re:Or... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747981)

Except that Gema only cares about getting their money. Right now they get nothing, so having nobody watch YouTube from Germany loses them no money, and in their minds may even be a "win" (since people aren't listening to the music they think they should be paid for). I agree that they actually get nothing positive (and most likely lots of negative) out of it, but given the path their already on, they probably aren't thinking about that.

Remember, when "old" media thinks about the Internet, all they see is money lost, not free advertising...

Never bet on Google not implementing an algorithm. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747507)

Especially given gross fiscal incentive to doso.

IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747515)

Just like Grooveshark did, google should just block youtube from germany.

You don't like free advertising, GEMA? Now you get none. Fuck the fuck right fucking off. Germany is only 80M ppl. Youtube wouldn't even feel a dent.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747549)

Well, more to the point, once those Gema represented figured out that they had just lopped off their own noses despite their face, it's likely Google would be in the far stronger position at the bargaining table.

At the end of the day, Youtube holds all the cards. It's the most visited video delivery site on the planet. You can be sure that if 80 million Germans suddenly found a message saying "Because of your courts and GEMA you will no longer be able to use YouTube", it wouldn't be long before GEMA came crawling back begging.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (2)

gnasher719 (869701) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747625)

At the end of the day, Youtube holds all the cards. It's the most visited video delivery site on the planet. You can be sure that if 80 million Germans suddenly found a message saying "Because of your courts and GEMA you will no longer be able to use YouTube", it wouldn't be long before GEMA came crawling back begging.

Your logic escapes me. The GEMA is not interested in how many people watch Youtube. They are interested in how much money is generated by Youtube for the music industry. Google, on the other hand, would have a massive loss of advertising income.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (3, Informative)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748083)

The fines are higher than the advertising income.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748311)

Hardly a massive loss, considering Germany is only a small fraction of the total customer base. And it's GEMA's alleged constituency who would be suffering as they would no longer have access, nor would potential customers in Germany, to their performances.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747793)

It's "to spite", not "despite".

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (2)

hvdh (1447205) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748331)

You can be sure that if 80 million Germans suddenly found a message saying "Because of your courts and GEMA you will no longer be able to use YouTube", it wouldn't be long before GEMA came crawling back begging.

Youtube already blocks quite a few current music video clips for german IPs saying "The video is not available in Germany because it might contain music not licensed by GEMA."
There's a firefox plugin (ProxTube) which detects exactly this and reloads the video using a non-german proxy.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747601)

Exactly!

YouTube has had a very powerful and effective content matching system in place for years. They have used it to automatically remove videos though. It's used to inform the copyright holder and let them decide. YouTube strongly recommends not removing videos, and instead using ads and links to places where content can actually be purchased.

Ever noticed how obviously copyrighted videos have many more ads and annoying links? It's not coincidence.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747653)

D'oh - I mean they have NEVER used it automatically remove videos.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (1)

risom (1400035) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747671)

Germany is only 80M ppl.

Germany is the third richest country in the world.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (-1, Troll)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747705)

Germany is only 80M ppl.

Germany is the third richest country in the world.

Well that's only if you count crusty little bread rolls as wealth.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (-1, Troll)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747851)

Only a brown would mod me down.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (1)

camperdave (969942) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747913)

Yes, third... right after the US, China, and Japan [wikipedia.org] ... and maybe India [aneki.com] .

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (1)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747967)

You aren't counting the crusty little bread rolls.

Re:IP wars will lead to scorched earth tactics (1)

risom (1400035) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748019)

Yes, third... right after the US, China, and Japan... and maybe India.

The GDP does not measure wealth, but income. Sure, China and maybe India have a higher GDP for 2 years now IIRC, but they are still quite poor in comparison, i.e. the amount of stuff _saved_ over the years is still much lower.

The amount of wealth per capita available right now is probably more important for a decision from Google than potential wealth in 15 or 20 years.

YouTube hasn't been the same since Google takeover (1)

John Holmes (2619159) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747531)

Let's face it. How many videos and comments have been censored by the allseeing eyes of GGle? They use copyright as an excuse all to often. If you want to see stuff, you have to use alternatives. Try Gibiru for instance.

Re:YouTube hasn't been the same since Google takeo (3, Insightful)

denis-The-menace (471988) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748113)

That's because opponents see YouTube as a piggy bank that you can shake and make it rain money.

If not filterable... (3, Insightful)

Teppy (105859) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747535)

If they can't automatically filter the videos, how can they automatically detect them to calculate the "fixed fee each time the copyright-protected videos are watched?"

Re:If not filterable... (4, Insightful)

wvmarle (1070040) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747663)

Gema will do that for them. It's a very simple calculation after all: something like 90% of the videos will have some Gema affiliate copyrighted music (if not more, if you ask them), then take the number of hits to YouTube from German IP addresses, well 90% of that number times a license fee of say E 0,50 a song (still give or take a 50% discount on the iTunes price) gives the number Google must pay.

OK, I think the "pull out of Germany" option might be the cheaper one after all. Never mind.

Re:If not filterable... (2)

MozeeToby (1163751) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747745)

The reason that filtering the videos is difficult is because they get rejected if the filter flags them. That encourages an arms race between the filtering software on one side and the users on the other, an arms race that the users are always going to win. If users aren't annoyed by the filtering there's nothing to encourage them to change the fingerprint of the video and writing a piece of filtering software, even with very high accuracy, becomes relatively simple.

Re:If not filterable... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747843)

I think Google is being disingenuous when they talk about the difficulty of filtering copyrighted content. How do you think people find these videos to watch and listen to? They type the name of the song or artist into the Google search bar, and the YouTube usually shows up with the thumbnail view on one of the first few pages of hit.

Sometimes (2)

phorm (591458) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748317)

That's for video's specifically targeted at sharing the "infringing" content.

But they also take issue with people uploading their own videos /w copyrighted soundtracks, and how about if I upload a video of myself singing "Song X" (I'm not sure if this is considered "fair use", though it may considered "cruel and unusual punishment" given my singing ability).

Logic? (1)

kid_wonder (21480) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747537)

This is either a sign of complete, magical belief in technology or judicial incompetence.

Unfortunately I lean towards the latter.

Or its just Germans being German.

Why is the EU flag on this story?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747551)

This is a German state court decision, there's no connection to the EU in this story here at all.

Editors, please fix this.

Re:Why is the EU flag on this story?? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747597)

Because if one state in the US is a jackass, it makes us all look stupid.

Guess who looks stupid now.

Re:Why is the EU flag on this story?? (2)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747647)

Come on, everyone knows that the true name of the E.U. is "Scheinheiliges Römisches Reich Deutscher Nation"

Extortion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747577)

Were YouTube to agree to a fee paid for each viewing, wouldn't this give Gema an incentive to have bots upload and "watch" their videos so as to line their pockets? What's to prevent that from happening?

No self promo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747583)

If they get a fee per 'click' then it has to be all the way to the end and not originate from an IP of a member. Oh. Then you have to publish those to Google too. There.

Germans Obviously Upset (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747593)

The Germans are obviously upset with all of the Downfall parodies.

And then ... (5, Insightful)

LoudMusic (199347) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747607)

"... the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched ..."

And then start paying people to watch the videos.

Profit!

Re:And then ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747691)

Would they have to pay people?

I'm sure a botnet would be able to appear as legitimate traffic as well. Even if GEMA didn't do it it seems some one would just to mess with google.

Profit! (1)

dougman (908) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747651)

"Gema is now hoping that Google will finally agree to a new bilateral licensing treaty whereby the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched."

1. Get YouTube to give you two cents each time one is watched
2. Go to a third world country/botnet and pay a penny per click to get viewers
3. Profit!

Seriously, pull out of Germany and let the people tell their politicians how they really feel. I imagine they will be welcomed back when a few rules are tweaked.

Re:Profit! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747727)

Seriously, pull out of Germany and let the people tell their politicians how they really feel. I imagine they will be welcomed back when a few rules are tweaked.

The law is not the problem. I presume you can't copy music and videos in other countries for free, just because you feel the copyright owner wants to much money.

"Bilateral"??? (2)

Omega Hacker (6676) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747675)

Sorry, but when Gema is using the courts to force Google into a "licensing" agreement that they've defined on their own, knowing that what the courts have mandated is outright impossible, that's called "UNILATERAL".

Re:"Bilateral"??? (4, Funny)

idontgno (624372) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748003)

It's perfectly bilateral. There's a meeting of minds and consideration on both sides.

Just like when Vinnie and Mr. Sung agree that (A) Mr. Sung will pay Vinnie 1/3 of the gross till of Mr. Sung's convenience store, or $2000 (whichever is more) each week; and (B) Vinnie agrees that Mr. Sung's convenience store won't accidentally burn down.

the vulnerability of single gatekeepers (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747677)

This is the problem with allowing single entities (no matter HOW they are intentioned) to be the gatekeepers to the internet. It makes the entire system vulnerable to censorship. The more diverse it is, the more resilient it is.

So remind me again: why is it that we seem to want to allow a few giant companies like Facebook and Google to control all our content?

Re:the vulnerability of single gatekeepers (3, Insightful)

Tanktalus (794810) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747785)

Because when you have dozens of smaller players, none of them have the warchest available to defend your rights and will, instead, capitulate to the smallest demand. When you have mammoth agencies who are interested in protecting the internet (more Google, less Facebook), you will also have the mammoth warchest to fund it.

If you had a dozen smaller players competing for video bandwidth in Germany, you'd get some paying the licensing fee, others pulling out, with a net effect that Gema gets money while there is no outcry from German citizens. WIth Google/Youtube, you first got an actual court case, and pulling out of Germany becomes a real, viable response that will likely result in a lot of complaining by German citizens, which is much more likely to get the government of Germany to look at legislative options to tone down Gema and entice Youtube to return.

Re:the vulnerability of single gatekeepers (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747957)

available to defend your rights and will, instead

So your assertion is that youtube cares about defending my rights?

*blink*

Uhhh.. sure they do.

They'll do what causes them least financial harm, and that is all. Big companies have a long history of caving into censorship demands. The ONLY viable defence is to not put all our eggs in one basket.

I can't understand Germany (1)

WOOFYGOOFY (1334993) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747715)

I just can't understand Germany lately. This is a great country with really enlightened people running it for the most part but their positions on IP - software patents (legal in Germany) and draconic copyright measures are just counter to everything else the Germans do in terms of forward thinkingness.

I am guessing it's because they've drunk the IP Kool-Aide and think that all these measures are somehow making for a stronger economy ... or something....

Re:I can't understand Germany (-1, Flamebait)

sir-gold (949031) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747845)

well, they did kill millions of jews and destroy a large chunk of europe in the pursuit of "a stronger economy", so this news should not come as a surprise

Re:I can't understand Germany (1)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747943)

well, they did kill millions of jews and destroy a large chunk of europe in the pursuit of "a stronger economy", so this news should not come as a surprise

Wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong!

They did it for "living space".

Re:I can't understand Germany (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39748013)

Unlike the US, where they only almost wiped out a whole branch of the human race (wars/mass murders, reservations, infected blankets, ...)?

Re:I can't understand Germany (1)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748123)

Von Amerika lernen heißt siegen lernen.

Re:I can't understand Germany (2)

dave420 (699308) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748219)

"They"? No. Previous Germans did that. Don't tar the current lot with the same brush.

Re:I can't understand Germany (4, Interesting)

silanea (1241518) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748095)

Not Germany, the single most retarded court in the whole of Germany. Hamburg is to copyright suits what Texas is to patent suits. The decision will almost certainly be struck down in the next round. They virtually always are.

Corporations are making treaties now? (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747719)

Last I checked, treaties are between governments. Between corporations, those are supposed to be contracts.

The difference is that treaties and governments are supposed to supersede any contracts (e.g. you can't expect a contract of indentured servitude to have any force in the US).

Re:Corporations are making treaties now? (2)

sir-gold (949031) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747897)

yes, but who is actually writing the treaties that governments are signing? My guess is that the corporations are the ones writing the treaties, just like they already write US laws

Nazi Germany! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747721)

Nazi Germany!

Google has to do something (5, Interesting)

cmptrs4now (1149799) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747801)

This is an interesting dilema for Google. In my opinion google should appeal the descision asking GEMA to provide a filtering algorithm that meets GEMAs demand. If GEMA cannot or will not supply the algorithm the Google should be able to ask the courts to reverse the decision based on the evidence that GEMA has asked google to do something that GEMA themselves cannot do.

Err, Umm.... (1)

msobkow (48369) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747829)

if they can't identify the videos, how are they supposed to count the video views?

*baffled*

...whereby the collecting society would not get an annual lump sum for the contested videos, but a fixed fee each time copyright-protected videos are watched.

Re:Err, Umm.... (1)

Shadow99_1 (86250) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748315)

They simply take a cut of each video that GEMA claims breaks their copyrights, this is more or less what happens now (but with a yearly lump sum to cover any possible infringement until 2008). GEMA is the one that selects what videos fall under that currently (& if other companies are any example they will claim stuff even if they don't own the copyrights).

Losing money each time watched... make me laugh (4, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747881)

Without youtube most of these people's works would have faded from public view or remained obscure.

Who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39747889)

I promise I'll never download Gema stuff. I never heard of it, obviously they don't want me to see, so fine.

Easy, fun fix. (1)

irving47 (73147) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747893)

Re-direct all german traffic to servers in the US. Turn off the German ones for a while and save some power.
Only allow those requests to view the 240 version of all videos. Not only will it be lower resolution, but slower than usual, too.
Put a nice big banner above the videos explaining why, with contact information of GEMA.

Re:Easy, fun fix. (1)

Red_Chaos1 (95148) | more than 2 years ago | (#39747933)

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I'm sick of the money grubbing and trying to put the problem of copyright on people who shouldn't have to worry about it. Gema doesn't want copyrighted crap on Youtube? Then use the process in place, just like everyone else.

Re:Easy, fun fix. (1)

Lithdren (605362) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748169)

Agree to this liscence agreement they want, and request the copywrited material so that they can review videos.

Then pay these people for every view for every video that matches the audio 100%. If its even 0.001% off, dont count the hit. Alternatly let the GEMA try to figure out what videos infringe and get clearance with Google to agree before paying up.

In other words make it a huge pain in the neck for GEMA. Make it cost more for them to figure out what videos are actually infringing than any value they may actually get out of them. See who runs out of money first, GEMA or Google.

Filter Future Uploads By German Court (1)

Anomalyst (742352) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748021)

I do not have a problem with Google blocking all uploads by German Court (whoever he/she is).

Screw them (1)

Tmann72 (2473512) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748027)

Come on Google. Just block the entirely of Germany!

Youtube can't even build a decent Frontpage... (-1, Offtopic)

dryriver (1010635) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748063)

Youtube is a site in severe decline. Every time I go to Youtube.com, the Frontpage - which has a horrible layout - features a seemingly random selection of videos. Some are genuinely popular with a few 100K views (like SexyPhil, FPS Russia, MyFavoriteMartian and a few other regulars). Quite a few, on the other hand, are random new videos that - always - have been watched by exactly 302 Viewers. For mysterious reasons, the view counter on these videos stays stuck at 302 Views until the video gets a few 100K views. And these videos seem to hang around the frontpage for 1 - 2 days, with no explanation whatsoever as to why they are frontpage material. Does the Youtube staff pick them? Are they selected by an algorithm of some sort? Nobody knows, nobody tells. Oh, then there is the viewer statistics that Youtube offers for your videos. Works sometimes. Refuses to work at all at others.-------- The whole of Youtube sometimes seems to be a patchwork of functions that barely hang together to make a working videosharing site. ---------- And then there is the old Youtube-Future Conspiracy Theory: That Google is growing Youtube's viewer count patiently, until so many video afficionados visit the free site daily, that it becomes feasible to start putting non-free Pay-Per-View content like Hollywood films and popular TV Shows on it. Youtube would partially transform into a kind of online "Blockbuster Video Store" or plain "Online Video Rental Service", where you pay to view premium content like recent Hollywood Blockbusters. The community aspect of Youtube - teens going online to -OMG- watch the latest Justin Bieber/Rihanna/Katy Perry - would deliver a steady stream of willing-to-pay customers to Youtube's premium service. Youtube may currently be a visually cluttered semi-mess, without a good business model, or good management. But that may change one day, and Youtube may either require payment to watch certain things, or stop interrupting free videos with video advertising.

Actual vs. intellectual property (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39748081)

People still fail to grasp the essential difference between actual property and intellectual property.

If you take my actual property, you are a thief, because I make a loss that I didn't consent to (meaning you have a definite negative impact on my life), and you are responsible for it.
If you take my intellectual property without me consenting to it, you might gain something in the same way as with taking my actual property, but the important part is I don't necessarily lose anything. Thus you had a neutral impact on my life. Now obviously I prefer you to have a positive impact on my life, but really, can I demand that to the extent that I can dictate the terms? Only to the extent that I have to work in order for you to get the intellectual property, i.e. if I have to run the server you download it from, or I have to read or explain or sing it to you. But if somebody else gives you that intellectual property, I don't work for that AT ALL. So I can't demand anything at all, either!

Then the only negative impact you have on my life then depends on my values, on my view on life. Just like when gays fuck each other and some anti-gay person knows about it. He might not approve of it, it might even anger him, but that still doesn't mean he has a right to deprive them of their fun. So you, dear artist, may not like me enjoying your music without giving you the moneys, you may complain about it, but you still don't get to deprive me of that joy just because you would like to.

You are used to surely get compensated by giving your stuff away to some distribution company which will pay you over time. That worked when they could piggy-back your bill on the money they get for doing actual work, like printing a book, pressing a CD, distributing it to stores, hiring people to guard the stuff and taking people's money in exchange for the actual good. I.e. it worked fine when buying plastic disks or packs of sliced trees were the only ways to get your stuff. But that is over! Now the delivery is so cheap and easy that everybody can do it from their own home, free of charge, without thinking about it. Yet you still give your stuff away before you get compensated for creating it. And then you whine about people not giving you any money, people you never signed a contract with, who never agreed to it, as opposed to the labels and publishers. No, there's just a law on your side that basically auto-creates a contract, i.e. without anybody having any chance to define the terms for themselves. That's a pretty weak basis.

You have to come up with something new. YOU have to make sure you get payed for your *actual* work (performing and recording your songs, writing your books) in some other way. Distribution is now essentially free, so don't piggy-back it on that. Find something else. Say how much you want for you *one-time* work, get people interested in paying a portion of that by providing samples of your work, wait until enough people promised to give you their money so you get your money's worth, and only *THEN* release your stuff in its entirety. If you still get donations afterwards, out of shear gratitude, good for you! But you won't need them anymore, cause you got compensated before already. So you also don't have the urge to demand it from people. And call them thieves if they don't comply.

Imprisonment? (1)

Jason Levine (196982) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748167)

YouTube would in future have to install an efficient mechanism to filter out such content uploaded by users or face a fine of up to 250,000 euros ($330,000) for each case, or up to six months imprisonment.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but how would they imprison YouTube? Would all the videos have bars in front of them? Are they going to round up all of Google Gerrmany's employees and send them to prison? Would just the head of Google's Germany office get sent to jail? How exactly do you send a company to jail?

Filter Future Uploads By German Court (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#39748187)

Why the fuck is a court uploading videos?

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