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If You Resell Your Used Games, the Terrorists Win

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the not-hyperbole-at-all dept.

Businesses 423

MojoKid writes "Game designer Richard Browne has come out swinging in favor of the rumored antipiracy features in the next-gen PlayStation Orbis and Xbox Durango. 'The real cost of used games is the damage that is being wrought on the creativity and variety of games available to the consumer,' Browne writes. Browne's comments echo those of influential programmer and Raspberry Pi developer David Braben, who wrote last month that '...pre-owned has really killed core games. It's killing single player games in particular, because they will get pre-owned, and it means your day one sales are it, making them super high risk.' Both Browne and Braben conflate hating GameStop (a thoroughly reasonable life choice) with the supposed evils of the used games market. Braben goes so far as to claim that used games are actually responsible for high game prices and that 'prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells.' Amazingly, no game publishers have stepped forward to publicly pledge themselves to lower game prices in exchange for a cut of used game sales. Publishers are hammering Gamestop (and recruiting developers to do the same) because it's easier than admitting that the current system is fundamentally broken."

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423 comments

used or bust (2, Insightful)

kimvette (919543) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751319)

I buy ONLY used games for my XBox 360.

Re:used or bust (5, Interesting)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751375)

I almost never buy used games PS3 games, but I almost always wait until a game is part of the "Greatest Hits" collection. That way I'm reasonably certain it's a good game. I'm too cheap to pay full price.

Re:used or bust (5, Insightful)

danomac (1032160) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751663)

The problem here is price. Again.

Most people don't have problems dropping $10-20 on a game. They do have problems with paying $60-70 for a game. It's not rocket science here.

If new games cost a third of what they were now I would suspect the used market would not be nearly as big.

They should take a hard look at themselves before whining. Honestly, if the new consoles are going to restrict used games, I won't buy one and find something else to do with my time.

Re:used or bust (2)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751715)

They must really hate me. I found my PS2 in the neighbour's trash and bought all my games used.

I picked up God of War at a pawn shop last weekend.

Re:used or bust (5, Insightful)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751811)

The problem here is price. Again.

Most people don't have problems dropping $10-20 on a game. They do have problems with paying $60-70 for a game. It's not rocket science here.

If new games cost a third of what they were now I would suspect the used market would not be nearly as big.

They should take a hard look at themselves before whining. Honestly, if the new consoles are going to restrict used games, I won't buy one and find something else to do with my time.

The funny thing is, not only are they $60-70, they honestly aren't of the quality that some $20-30 "indy" companies like Nippon Ichi or XSeed put out, to say nothing about true indy games out there.

Seriously, I get that all that HD graphics and buying hookers and yachts for your CEO and the like are very, very expensive. But the $80 a game rumored price point for the Orbis and Durango titles is insane, and honestly, 99.9% of the titles for all 3 consoles are shovel-ware dressed up with marketing blitz.

If they want to fix game sales, make better games. Fire the executives who keep making shitty decisions. Stop being so goddamned "safe" (read: bland as hell) with your companies. If Notch had been working for a major design studio, there's no way in hell Minecraft would have ever been released.

We're going to hit a point very soon where it doesn't matter how much better the graphics get, the devs won't be able to develop for those, because we're not going to be willing to pay for $80-90 games with $50 of tacked on DLC.

Re:used or bust (2)

schwep (173358) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751391)

Or we can boycot the industry completely for a year. Make them feel the hurt & maybe they'll realize that they're not something important like, say, the food industry.

Re:used or bust (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751437)

Good luck with that...

Re:used or bust (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751875)

It's not hard buy good indie games to show that we consumers value creative games.

Re:used or bust (5, Insightful)

desdinova 216 (2000908) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751631)

Or we can boycot the industry completely for a year. Make them feel the hurt & maybe they'll realize that they're not something important like, say, the food industry.

the only problem with that is the game publishers won't see it that way, they'll blame piracy.

Re:used or bust (4, Funny)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751477)

I borrow my games from the library. Fuck em all.

Re:used or bust (5, Insightful)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751727)

And this entire line of thinking is retarded! hey why don't I get a cut of every resale of every PC I have ever built? Why I could probably lower my price if that happened (but of course IRL I'd just pocket the extra profits) or why doesn't every carpenter get a cut every time a house he built gets resold?

Because that isn't how reality works and only arrogant game designers and the MAFIAA would try to push that insane bullshit upon us. If you want to charge for MP because you need to pay the server costs? Not a problem but frankly i'd rather host my own so don't be surprised if I buy the one that lets me host instead of yours, but news flash game designers YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL and don't deserve to have the entire rules of commerce rewritten because you think everyone that views your precious IP should have to give you a cut even after you have sold it.

Just remember everyime you support douchbags like this you are siding with those like Sony that think you should have to pay a nickel to play a song or give them the price of the CD over again if you want it in a different format. Your imaginary property rights don't and shouldn't trump ACTUAL property rights. the most ironic part is while douchenozzles like this rail for more American laws they then go to china to hire cheap coders. Our laws are good enough for these dicks but not our workers. fuck them and the horse they rode in on, if they block first sale I'll pirate every damned thing rather than give a cent to pricks like this!

Re:used or bust (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751845)

If you win and the system changes, sir, you are a patriot, but if you lose and the system remains, sir, you are a terrorist.

So.... (5, Insightful)

bobwrit (1232148) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751337)

How is a broken retail model related to terrorism? I don't see the connection. And I have RTFA.... still says nothing.

Re:So.... (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751425)

Methinks submitter was attempting to be clever.

Re:So.... (4, Informative)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751429)

*whoosh*, as they say.

Appending "the terrorists win" to a sentence implies it's a load of bullshit, as popularized by countless anti-terrorism pundits since 9/11.

Re:So.... (4, Insightful)

chispito (1870390) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751609)

*whoosh*, as they say.

Appending "the terrorists win" to a sentence implies it's a load of bullshit, as popularized by countless anti-terrorism pundits since 9/11.

That doesn't make it any less stupid.

Re:So.... (4, Funny)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751865)

That sounds like something a communist sympathizer would say!

Re:So.... (1)

desdinova 216 (2000908) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751693)

it's almost like "terrorist" is the new Godwn.

Re:So.... (2)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751853)

It is. Right now. I'm calling it Desdinova's Law.

Re:So.... (1)

jhoegl (638955) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751431)

Perhaps it was a play on that commercial which claimed SUVs support terrorism because gas profits in part go towards terrorists?
Although, I love the in article statement that games would be cheaper had resellers never ventured to sell used games... BAHAHAHAHA.
These guys are just money grubbing assholes, which I equate to the RIAA and MPAA.

Re:So.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751575)

Perhaps it was a play on that commercial which claimed SUVs support terrorism because gas profits in part go towards terrorists?

I think Bush [google.com] started that meme in 2002.

Re:So.... (3, Interesting)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751587)

Are you old enough to have grown up with a pre-nine-eleven mindset?

Re:So.... (3, Interesting)

SonofSmog (1961084) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751729)

Yesterday the RIAA-produced video In Trial, which covers the societal dangers of music piracy, made its way out to torrent sites, and among its contents are instructions on how to get RIAA investigators qualified as expert witnesses, a guide to identifying pirated CDs, and the above bit, about the links between people who profit from pirated music and people who deal weapons, populate terror cells, and murder their fellow man for sport. Here: http://idolator.com/359196/riaa-murderers-terrorists-and-other-criminal-minds-may-be-graduating-to-pirating-music [idolator.com]

Re:So.... (1)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751781)

The title of RTFA does refer to terrorists, but there is nothing in the actual quotes even remotely suggesting it. If it was an attempt at humour, it's crap; if it was an attempt to steer the opinion of its readers: likewise. We have enough reason to hate publishers without making shit up.

yes, Braben (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751341)

If you can re-sell games then they may cost more initially.

But people are more likely to buy them because they know they can re-sell them.

See also Apple.

And Apple are doing rather well, aren't they?

TLDR (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751345)

"no game publishers have stepped forward to publicly pledge themselves to lower game prices in exchange for a cut of used game sales"

Nuff said.

At this point, I support the terrorists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751349)

I'm sure the black helicopters will be after me soon.

Horse hockey... (4, Insightful)

raydobbs (99133) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751379)

The real secret for cutting down on reselling used games (can't eliminate it entirely) is to provide an incentive for the customer to retain it. New content, re-playability, tie in with future products that open new avenues of gameplay, rewards for brand loyalty, etc. You make a nice single player franchise, have there be some sort of in-game reward for owning other products, having played them, or even still having the original disc and manual.

Oh, and don't shit in your own sandbox when you go werewolf on the series - destroying everything and everyone just because you want it to be 'though provoking' when it all comes crashing down (looking at you Bioware / EA...).

You continue to make another Call of Duty / Battlefield clone with a crappy five hours of single player action to make a quick buck - your game will get resold to Gamestop, that's just a fact. Multiplayer 'passes' prevent resell of a multiplayer game, but it won't do donkey dick to prevent those who are tired of owning your product from selling it off. Just accept that this will happen if you make shitty games.

Re:Horse hockey... (1)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751497)

Whoooo MAAAADENNNN!!!!

I love you BRO!

Re:Horse hockey... (2)

HairyNevus (992803) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751567)

I like the idea of tying in with future products, right now the farthest that's gone is MW3 showing your multiplayer rank since CoD4 in your profile. The problem is, the real way developers try to make people keep playing single-player games is shovelware. Fallout 3 & NV did it, and NV got more and more glitches the more you bought, essentially leaving you with a $100 broken product they have no intention of fixing. The other way to make people keep the game, of course, is continuing multiplayer experience. But CoD's new "Elite membership" seems to be trying to bleed all of that dry as well.
Game makers are tired of people selling off their games after a while/not buying 'til they can get it used for cheap? More like gamers are tired of financially backing these people without getting an acceptable return.

Re:Horse hockey... (-1)

DerekLyons (302214) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751733)

The real secret for cutting down on reselling used games (can't eliminate it entirely) is to provide an incentive for the customer to retain it. New content, re-playability, tie in with future products that open new avenues of gameplay, rewards for brand loyalty, etc.

That's what downloadable content is supposed to do - but the howls from players are loud and long over paying more money for more stuff. ("I bought the game once, why do I have to keep paying more money".)

Unless of course, you meant the publisher should do that work gratis, in which case - ROTFL,

Ever bought a used car? (5, Insightful)

Zaphod-AVA (471116) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751387)

If Mr. Browne has ever purchased a used car, borrowed a book, DVD, or CD, then he is a hypocritical schmuck.

Re:Ever bought a used car? (2)

fatalGlory (1060870) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751487)

Sweet merciful crudcakes, I wish I had modpoints. +1million

Re:Ever bought a used car? (2)

dufachi (973647) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751505)

If Mr. Browne has ever purchased a used car, borrowed a book, DVD, or CD, then he is a hypocritical schmuck.

To be fair here, the Movie Industry and the Recording Industry BOTH want dib dollars on resells of those product. Car manufacturers get money from parts (even the off-brand ones).

I will however agree on books. Publishers aren't going all crazy-talk about how used book stores are ruining the industry and a reason to sell the first-day hardcovers for double the price they should be.

I still call shenanigans.

Re:Ever bought a used car? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751613)

To be fair here, the Movie Industry and the Recording Industry BOTH want dib dollars on resells of those product.

Then perhaps they should provide a way for people to earn some money returning used products for resale.

If they don't, then someone else will.

Re:Ever bought a used car? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751739)

I will however agree on books. Publishers aren't going all crazy-talk about how used book stores are ruining the industry and a reason to sell the first-day hardcovers for double the price they should be.

I still call shenanigans.

That's because they're already selling first-day hardcovers for double the price they should be. Ever compared a hardcover price to a paperback price?

Re:Ever bought a used car? (3, Insightful)

Dracophile (140936) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751857)

When I buy a car I expect it to wear down and need repair from time to time. I do not expect the same of a right to watch a movie / listen to music / play a game.

Car manufacturers do not get anything on resells. Nobody should. First sale doctrine and all that. And yes, I know that publishers claim that they license a right to use software instead of selling that right. But I rather suspect that all falls over when you want to exchange a scratched CD/DVD; you'll have to pay for the license all over again.

Re:Ever bought a used car? (2, Funny)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751819)

Or, going the other way with this, I don't like the fact that I only get paid one salary for my job. If producers can claim resales as well as the first sale, they're getting paid multiple times for the same product. I should be able to do the same thing and get paid multiple times my current salary for doing the same job.

Lets help them go under. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751395)

If you own a game console - Pledge to only by pre-owned games (Preferably not from the goons at Gamestop, they've got their own issues)

Your broken business model does not supersede the right of firs sale doctrine.

Re:Lets help them go under. (1)

Githaron (2462596) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751815)

If enough people did that, no one would have console games.

I invoke... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751405)

The first sale doctrine.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine [wikipedia.org]

Game Prices are High? (1)

mugetsu37 (1485997) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751407)

They're lower than ever! In the 90's you would spend the same amount of money on a game, $50-$60, that you spend now. Video games are one of the few things that inflation has barely touched, which is probably why the industries crying over not being able to stuff their coffers. Even consoles were selling for close to what they cost now, what with the SNES and Genesis costing around $200, the Playstation around $300, and the Saturn around $400. It's not used games that are killing the market, if anything it's a market that hasn't changed in almost 20 years that's killing it.

Re:Game Prices are High? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751521)

Exactly. My copy of Phantasy Star IV for the Genesis ran me $99. I believe there were Final Fantasy games in the same era that were priced in an equally ridiculous manner. And we're talking $99 back in the '90s, before our government completely boned our economy and enacted its grand plans to make the dollar worthless.

Back then, there weren't any serious competitors to the established players. Any game worth playing came on the market in the $50-60 range.

Today? Shit, you can log into Steam, blow $60, and have enough games to last you a few months. Quality games. And that's what's got these tools worried. Their market is being eroded by indie developers.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go order some pre-owned games from GameStop. I'm not a fan of GameStop - I believe they're a terrible company, but the enemy of my enemy is worth doing business with. These sorry sops and their baby *AA mewling makes them the enemy of gamers everywhere.

Re:Game Prices are High? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751559)

One possible reason for that is because disposable income hasn't increased, or if it has, there are more choices on which to spend it.

If you make the games too expensive, people will spend their "entertainment money" on something else, like more games for their phone.

Re:Game Prices are High? (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751563)

The problem is the market is VASTLY wider then it was then so we should be seeing even lower pricing through volume.

Re:Game Prices are High? (2)

Culture20 (968837) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751891)

Nope. In the 90's, a $60 game was unheard of, and $50 games were very rare. $40 games were the top tier, and $30 games were the norm. $20 was my price point. I remember these prices because that's when I stopped buying due to DRM. Now I replay all my old games that still work without server authentication and limited installs. Of course, Richard Browne thinks I'm not worthy since I want to play any game for longer than his company says I should be able, thus I wouldn't buy every new game they made. Sure, they would make a profit off me, but not the amount they want, so they'd rather go scorched earth and alienate their sometimes-customers.

I can't sell my steam games (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751411)

If that is true why isn't MW3 cheaper in Steam?

Re:I can't sell my steam games (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751529)

sudo mod this up!

Re:I can't sell my steam games (5, Informative)

bartoku (922448) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751615)

You can sell your Steam account, although I would not let Steam know you are doing so... I open a new account for each game I buy, that way I can sell them off one buy one.

Re:I can't sell my steam games (1)

zlives (2009072) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751719)

Ditto

Re:I can't sell my steam games (0)

Esteanil (710082) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751621)

Mod parent up

Re:I can't sell my steam games (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751843)

Ok, so MW3 isn't cheaper on Steam.

However, pretty much every single other game on Steam is cheaper.

So yeah.

Oh, good grief (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751415)

Braben goes so far as to claim that used BOOKS are actually responsible for high BOOK prices and that 'prices would have come down long ago if the PUBLISHERS were getting a share of the USED BOOKSTORE REVENUE.'

Continuing memes, (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751419)

"For every 5 used-game sales, one 8 year old girl is sexually abused! Stop used game sales to stop child abuse!"

I did a LOL (2)

Mike Mentalist (544984) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751433)

'prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells

Did anyone else?

We Have a Word for That... (0)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751443)

prices would have come down long ago if the industry was getting a share of the resells.

It's called extortion.

Re:We Have a Word for That... (2)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751699)

The thing is that these games retail for a huge price, usually $60 now for PC. That's too much. But the price does not go down very fast except in brick-and-mortar stores where there is incentive to push old product off the shelves. Online prices do not go down as fast and publishers can maintain their inflated idea of a game's worth. Print, stamp, wrap, ship and stock a boxed PC game and there's a lot of overhead, so then why are online games selling for exactly the same price as a store bought game? If you've got cost reduction you need to pass along some of that to the customers. (a coworker made this point earlier how some people naively assume that higher margins means higher revenue, whereas you can make much more money by reducing margins if that increases sales)

Lies. (0, Troll)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751447)

'...pre-owned has really killed core games.

Yeah, in the same way used CDs killed the music industry, used cars killed the automotive industry, giving food past its due date to food shelves led to the collapse of agriculture, and used computers destroyed the technology industry.

Bitch please.

Re:Lies. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751541)

Yeah, in the same way used CDs killed the music industry

The music industry invented CD's and pretty much embraced it from the start. There were some audiophiles, then and now, who denounced CDs and digital music as a travesty, but there will always be those folks (same situation with beer sold in cans instead of bottles).

Napster and BitTorrent were different, the industry certainly did complain about that. Let me put it to you, what do you think of the creativity of the music industry over the last ten years compared to what it was before the Internet (pick a decade)? Do you think it's more exciting to go out and listen to live music now, or back in the day? Personally I think a lot of would-be garage rockers have decided to do something else with their lives instead. The upside is mostly gone except for musicians who fit the "American Idol" mold.

Re:Lies. (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751579)

Looks to me like Core Games [coregames.com] is doing OK.

Seriously though, what is a "core game"? Is it short for "hardcore"? Then what's that? Is it a hard game? Is it a complex game? Is it a flashy blockbuster game?

Steam Sales are a Better deal than used games (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751451)

You can usually buy a game on Steam for less than the cost of the console version's used game if you wait a few months.

Instead of paying Gamestop (which is a very sleazy company), you pay the developers directly.

I like that business model much more than these used game shenanigans big chain stores like to exploit.

A used game usually only even saves you $5. And for what?

So the profit can go to the sleazy retailer instead of the developers who wrote the game? Count me out.

What about the past? (1)

mehrotra.akash (1539473) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751453)

Games have been sold with just an offline serial check and were resellable for quite a few years
Did the industry see a significant increase in income after complicatiog these parts?

Uhmm... Node locked license? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751457)

Other software uses node locked licenses. Thats all that game developers have to do. Sell the media at cost. Let the reseller market do it's thing, They still have to come for the node license.

The article author gets it. (4, Insightful)

RanCossack (1138431) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751467)

The game developers calling for a share of used market profits are advocating the death of First Sale doctrine in the name of perpetuating a doomed business model.

Maybe I should RTFA more often.

BS (2)

guspasho (941623) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751481)

The used market has flourished since time immemorial, probably more so in the past than now. It isn't responsible for the lack of creativity in games. Blame the state of the industry, dominated by risk-adverse mega-corporations like EA that take over or muscle out the plucky independent game studios that used to characterize the industry.

Re:BS (1)

zlives (2009072) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751783)

FTFY "plucky independent core-game studios"

Perspective, people, perspective... (5, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751489)

What I really loath about the special pleading of the 'content industries' is not so much its frequent-though-not-total dishonesty; but it's sheer lack of perspective.

Is it, quite possibly, the case that used game sales are bad for aspects of the game creation business. However, the right of first sale is a fairly fundamental aspect of people actually being able to 'own' things. Guess what, guys: Even if your direst predictions are true, this is a case of video games vs. meaningful property rights. A sense of scale would be in order.

The same thing goes for assorted other 'IP' issues. Is piracy hurtful to the music and video industries? Quite possibly(though history suggests that their estimates of how much so should be taken with a grain of salt that would stun an ox...); but can that possibly matter more than such minor quibbles as 'due process' and 'innocence until proven guilty', which are trampled on by most of today's more enthusiastic anti-piracy schemes? Even if it were true that the whole damn industry would burn without such legislation, what of it?

That is what really gets to me. Yes, it is also true that these industries have a history of mendacity about the real damage inflicted by various things that they don't like; but that is a petty footnote: When it comes right down to it, the thing that they don't like(used game sales) is derived directly from a right more important than the entire video game industry. GameStop can rot in hell, they are a thoroughly parasitic and inefficient middleman; but meaningful ownership of property is far more important than video games, even if the direst predictions of their self-interested proponents are taken at face value.

Braben (3, Interesting)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751493)

He produced the Frontier games, didn't he? My experience of those was:

Frontier: copy protection so bad that you had about a 25% chance of being able to start the game until you removed it.
First Encouters: required a patch to run at all, then crashed. I think I played about an hour before I gave up.

So I doubt he has to worry about anyone wanting to buy a used copy of either.

Kickstarter (2)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751509)

There are people out there willing to pay millions of dollars in aggregate for single player games that don't even exist yet, and pre-owned games are killing the market for single player?

Re:Kickstarter (2)

squidflakes (905524) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751711)

Just like there were people willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in aggregate for a game that was released to the public in a very rough alpha.

Seriously, any time a spokesperson representing a large game company laments how their industry has been ruined by something other than their own arrogance or lack of desire to innovate or really any reason other than "we want to leverage an existing property that has already been paid for many times over to create a long string of best selling titles that require the absolute minimum cost and produce the absolute maximum profit." I just look at Minecraft and laugh.

Re:Kickstarter (1)

zlives (2009072) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751817)

but to earn their business... you gotta produce a game worth playing, and who has the time to do that :)

Stop Whining ... (2)

Githaron (2462596) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751511)

And create games that are so good that no one bothers to trade them in. Also, we have a right to resell our property. Deal with it.

Re:Stop Whining ... (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751769)

Too many new games are essentially movies with a tiny amount of interactivity. There's very often little replay value. The customer base has shifted as well to the point where they don't care and are treating the game as a movie anyway, they play once and then move on. You even see it in the marketing, they'll show cut-scenes only or detailed high resolution trailers but no actual in-game footage or game play, implying that it's all just a theatrical event.

Re:Stop Whining ... (1)

zlives (2009072) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751829)

I still have my original Wing commander3 and tie fighter :)

Used homes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751513)

Used homes are killing the construction industry. Please stop now!

Well, how about this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751535)

How about game sellers meet buyers halfway? Buyers stop reselling used games, and sellers charge the price a used game would fetch? That way there is no reason to sell used games and so nobody does it.

Re:Well, how about this... (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751545)

That's called Steam, isn't it? I don't remember the last time I paid more than $5 for a game there.

Re:Well, how about this... (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751887)

Then you're not getting current releases. Steam is not that cheap unless you're getting indie games or old releases. Skyrim is still $59.99, exactly the same price it had when released on day one, and exactly the same price as it is in the stores (ok, the local store has $59.96 :-). New on Amazon it is $49.99. Fallout New Vegas is still $40. The original Fallout is selling for $9.99 and that's what you could get it for 5 years ago! Checking a sample of RPG games I saw none under $9.99 until I got to the third page (not counting "free to play"). I don't expect any of these are cheaper than what I can get by going to Frys and searching the bargain bin.

Driving Price Down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751551)

Wouldn't driving the initial cost down help kill the secondary market. If the price of a new game is low enough I'm not going to buy it used.

Bull (2)

hibiki_r (649814) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751561)

The used market softens the ridiculous price of games when they come out. If Joe buys a game for $60, and resells it for $10, , he can use those $10 to buy another game. If reselling used games becomes impossible, then Joe might be short $10 the next time he tries to buy a new game, and will not be able to afford it. He could just wait until it's on sale.

The one place where the game industry loses is because of the friction of the used market: The cut that the intermediaries take. If they want to make that friction go away, why not allow reselling of games, right within their platforms? Why not lower prices to spur sales at full price. I sure have not bought a game for $60 in many years.

And then there's also the model followed by this guy called Gabe Newell. The best ROI his company ever got did not come from extremely expensive games that people can't resell. It came from making a game free to play, and instead of making people pay to get advantages in game, he just got his Australian sidekick to sell digital hats. Since people loved the game, they also bought the hats for Gabe's free game.

But it's easier to blame piracy, or used games, or the Wicked Witch of the West than it is to build a very solid product first and figure out how to get paid later.

Someone needs to open the eyes!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751571)

Yes, someone needs to open the eyes and those are the ones in the game industry!
Persons that buy 2nd hand games don't have money to pay from € 50 to € 60 per each game. If they kill this 2nd hand
market, they will only get less gamers in the world, and no increase in their profit.

Also the game industry don't care about the programmers or their creativity. They only care in make clones of the genre that
it's becoming the standard for a game: The first person shooter!

Indie games is where the creativity exist, period!

Hmmmm, if only we had a compelling car analogy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751573)

I'm sure that Mr. Browne has never sold a used car that he was tired of driving in order to subsidize the purchase of a new car (or better yet, a beautifully maintained, low mileage used car). I mean, "...pre-owned has really killed [strike]core games[/strike] new car sales. It's killing [strike]single player games[/strike] sports car sales in particular, because they will get pre-owned, and it means your day one sales are it, making them super high risk."

Make up your fucking minds (4, Insightful)

Fned (43219) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751595)

Are you selling us an object that we own, or are you asking us to pay you for convenient access to a system that you own?

You can't have it both ways.

Economics Fail (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751601)

If new games suddenly stop competing with used games, prices will go down? Huh?

Say what you want everybody (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751605)

But it is a cold, hard fact: The 2nd hand market in ANY industries damage them to various extents.
Yes, they do, your opinion isn't a fact.
Piracy doesn't even dent the 2nd hand market losses in most industries.

In the case of the game industry, the main problem stems from stores not buying new stock from their initial purchases because they resell the same games over and over again at a much lower price.
This in turn led to an increase in prices of games, which forced more and more people to buy 2nd hand.
It is a continual spiral of losses and is going to end up crashing hard if something doesn't happen soon.

And here, this is what happens, this happens. They might be rumors and never come to fruition, but it will happen eventually unless the industry crashes again.
The games industry is MUCH more fragile than the car, music or movies industry, before some smartass comes in with his "used cars never killed the industry", perhaps you should also look again at the MASSIVE bailout of a car company that happened in the not too distant past.
A single failed game can kill most game smaller companies. Most companies in the car industry are already "EA-levels" of rich (wrt game industry) and are "too big to fail".

It is about damn time people wake up and smell that foul smell that has been stinking out the place.

Solutions:
Lower prices would allow far more people to buy games who'd have normally went for 2nd hand games after a couple weeks.
Lower prices also mean more games in general.
If it is at a certain key price point, the losses from the higher price point will be made up simply due to the larger sales overall.
Let the stores deal with the problem. They made it.

Re:Say what you want everybody (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751677)

The games industry is MUCH more fragile than the car, music or movies industry, before some smartass comes in with his "used cars never killed the industry", perhaps you should also look again at the MASSIVE bailout of a car company that happened in the not too distant past.

Used cars didn't kill GM, poor management did.

How many people do you think would put up $20-30,000 to buy a car if there was no used market?

before gamestop the pawn stores resold games (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751639)

before gamestop the pawn stores resold games some times at high prices as well.

ok, then fuck off. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751667)

ok, then fuck off.

ill go buy used games from kickstarter.com

well then (1)

ticktickboom (1054594) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751675)

them tricky terrorist found a way to get money out of gamestop. so, i cant sell a game i have in order to stop a suicide bomber. that means that gamestop supports suicide bombers. and suicide bombers need used games. as posted earlier, they need to stop selling crappy games with no ability to play over and over. they also need to make it so you dot need a broandband connection to play a single player game. i really liked fallout. but i couldn't play fallout vegas, it used STEAM. i had to wait for the cracked version before i could play it. thanks ripping groups! if that game was made so anyone could play it, they would have made another 65 bucks from me. same with civ5, and many others. i cant buy games anymore, all of em use Steam. or, i could buy them, buy couldn't use them, and now i cant sell them cause that would support a suicide bomber, somehow. how come every chance people have to make a lil bit of money, someone there is ready to shout out for the companies. i mean, are there really people out there so shallow and separated from the world that they actually think what their doing is right?

Fuck them... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751689)

Fuck the videogames industry. Seriously fuck the developers, artists the whole enchilada. I have never known a bunch of more self obssesed dorks as these guys. All in all they are worse than the MPAA and RIAA put together.
All the problems they have are a consequence from the Hollywood style type of financing. Spending tens of millions of $ for a single game and then hope it does well enough to finance lesser known projects. The system is not sustainable. The pricing structure is too rigid, you can't seriously sell top of line games at 60 $ and then shit games at 60 $ either. They have embraced 100% closed systems that don't offer the versatility of the pc. What did they think would happen ? Screw over your customers and sooner or later you'll have your upcommance.
As for price reduction, what bullshit. Am I the only one to remember when years ago the publishers and developers were screaming from the top of their lungs that doing away with manuals and other goodies would bring down the price of videogames ? Of course it never happened.
What happened was shit boxes (same quality as your run of the mill pirate dvd box) with a single black and white sheet and a dvd started appearing. All for full price. Later on we would be sold what they termed "extreme editions" that were basically normal editions (old style) for an even greater price. And should I mention the crusade for dlc and nickel and diming everything. You buy a full price videogame and you have to spend even more for content that's already on the disk.
Seriously fuck them. I don't have sympathy for those dorks anymore.

A non-issue (1)

kamapuaa (555446) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751703)

I have no problem with this, as long as they make it clear what they're doing. If you don't like the idea, don't buy them. If nobody buys such game, they won't be sold any more.

Dude is right. Video games are a competitive marketplace. If more people bought the games new (because less people bought used), there'd be more games published, there'd be more pressure to lower game prices, etc. Games aren't made as charity or on a government quota, they're made with the hope of financial returns.

All the "I am a Slashdot nerd, and my armchair financial analysis is more valid than people who are trained and well-studied and have full financial data" posts are such nonsense. It's a little self-serving that the best financial plan (according to Slashdot) happen to be "allow unlimited torrents and cheap used games and and Kickstarter re-makes of 80s games and 20 hours of gameplay for $20!!!"

Valve is drooling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751709)

Steambox is going to wipe their ass with the current console market because of this sort of backasswards thinking. Like the iPhone did to the cell phone market.

Now where's my popcorn...

Re:Valve is drooling (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751855)

Uh... Since when can you sell your games second-hand on Steam?

I mean, Steam is the main thing proving the guy right, here.

If anything. (1)

Truekaiser (724672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751713)

This means that it's about time for another video game industry crash.
customers were treated about as bad now as they were before the last one. it took the crash at least for a short while to treat their customer base well. i think they need to relearn that lesson.

I never buy games when they first come out (3, Insightful)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751725)

I guess me and Amazon are killling the games industry together by paying 15GBP for a game after 6 months to a year instead of 40GBP right away. PS to game developers (looking hard at Bethesda) don't release very buggy software if you want repeat customers.

What are we paying for? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751751)

Games should be a good, not a service.
Unfortunately the way of the future is this cloud-stored DRM garbage, because of the same people who feel that 1000 $100 games being torented is exactly the same as a $100000 loss in profits. If people don't want to buy your 'good' anymore for whatever reason it's up to the business to adapt it's product or die. A single player game is not unsellable if you, for instance, provide access to a significant amount of of DLC and goodies for it. Also, if the game is quality then it will sell; Dead Space managed to do quite well...

Pah. (1)

Kingrames (858416) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751753)

Complete Bullshit. We still pay full price for good, new games.
The availability of old games I had to pass up because I couldn't afford them on my allowance at the time doesn't change that.

Cars too (1)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751759)

Look at all those used cars that get sold. Taking money away from our American Automobile industry. That is just as bad, and should be outlawed. No one should be allowed to buy used cars, they should have to support the industry that created the cars by buying new cars. I'm sure that is just as likely to bring down car costs and improve quality as banning or preventing used game sales will clean up the game industry.

solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39751797)

Buying a new program is aiding terrorists, so don't buy it in the first place. Oh no, not getting it somehow, just ignore them. There are plenty around, who don't threaten you for buying their products.

If they're not $60 a game... (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#39751861)

...people are less likely to buy them used. At very least, it'd cut down the "Hey, that looks coollllllgaaaah maybe not" sticker shock.

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