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US Judge Say Kim Dotcom May Never Be Tried or Extradited

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the but-thanks-for-playing dept.

The Courts 345

vik writes "As Megaupload's Kim Dotcom's megafarce trial continues, the New Zealand Herald reports that his alleged offense not only falls below the threshold for extradition, but also that the warrant may not be properly served. 'My understanding as to why they haven't done that is because they can't. We don't believe Megaupload can be served in a criminal matter because it is not located within the jurisdiction of the United States,' says Megaupload's lawyer Ira Rothken. Not surprisingly, Kim Dotcom has a few choice words to say about having his business trashed this way, with 220 jobs lost, and millions left without access to their legitimate data."

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345 comments

frosty piss (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756421)

extradited from my cock to your mouth. Try it today!

Trial and extradition were never the goal (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756435)

He was put out of business and lost tens of millions of dollars from the raid. His punishment has already been served, without trial, and without due process.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (5, Insightful)

BenJCarter (902199) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756461)

Remember who was in charge when this happened and vote accordingly next election.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756481)

What muther fucker would you vote for? BITCH Paul or CLIT HAM FUCKER?

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756517)

Global capital? How do we vote them out of office?

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756623)

Completely cut off the flow of money to the entertainment industry and encourage others to do the same.

Whether you pirate or abstain is irrelevant. What matters is that the flow of money stops.

The behemoth entertainment industry was not created out of thin air by Blofeld. It grew from the ground up when clueless consumers chose to buy its products, unaware or unconcerned with what their purchases were fueling.

The entertainment industry did not fall from the sky. The public created it, nurtured it, and fed it. It is what it is because people are willing to fork over huge sums of money for an intangible product of questionable quality with a near zero marginal cost of production.

These days, telling someone to give up their MAFIAA-backed entertainment is like trying to get a smoker to quit. People are hooked and falsely believe that mass produced entertainment is a necessity. In the brain of the average consumer, not buying a DVD and taking a hike in the park instead does not even register as an option.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756775)

It would be nice but the fact is not all content provider MAFIAA are just content providers...

SONY: Hardware - TVs, Radios, Game Consoles, DVD Players, CD Players, etc...

as well many other have investments to keep them going... it sucks but the real way to handle things would be a general boycott of consumerism entirely but that would also hurt the economy in the process... tough choices.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (2, Insightful)

morari (1080535) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756879)

People still buy Sony products? What worthy product have they even produced in the last two decades?

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757149)

What worthy product have they even produced in the last two decades?

Heh, You kids [sony.com] .. must think that TV grows on trees

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757159)

The original PlayStation was a nice console to program for, once Sony relented and told the developers how the hardware worked.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (2)

lordmetroid (708723) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757007)

In times like these, it is important to ask. For what do you want the economy? Is the continued perpetuance and growth of the economy the goal? I do not see it as such, I believe the goal of the economy is to provide a better life for people and in order to do that any part of the economy that is rotten, absurd and wicked should be cut off and left to wither.

Now when we have everything we could wish for, perhaps it is time to reconsider what could make ones life better, could it perhaps be more materialistic wealth or could it perhaps be more time to enjoy the company of ones peer, to socialize and to enjoy art and culture? Perhaps it is shorter workdays, shorter workweek.

"completely" not necessay -corporatism's weak spot (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757181)

completely cut off the flow of money to the entertainment industry

There's no need to cut off the flow completely - just reduce it sufficiently.

Doing that is simple. Here's the plan: It's not as tough as you believe. [techdirt.com]

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (4, Insightful)

_KiTA_ (241027) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756761)

Global capital? How do we vote them out of office?

Traditionally, With Torches and Pitchforks.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (4, Insightful)

micheas (231635) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756933)

That's why we Americans have the second amendment.

"A revolution every twenty years is good for a country." Thomas Jefferson

The house of representatives was supposed to be about as difficult an office to obtain as city council seats.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757091)

Global capital? How do we vote them out of office?

First, I read your comment.

Then, I laughed out loud.

Then, I sighed.

Then, I cried.

Now I feel like shit.

Thanks :-((

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (2, Informative)

bubkus_jones (561139) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756529)

Yes, because it's ALL his fault, right? The previous guy didn't do ANYTHING wrong and was a perfect saint, a champion of personal freedoms and rights. Voting the other guy isn't going to help, as they end up serving the same masters. You want change, you need to neutralize the power of those masters, and find a way to convince people to vote for someone who won't simply bow to them.

Good luck with that.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (4, Informative)

NeverSuchBefore (2613927) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756587)

The previous guy didn't do ANYTHING wrong and was a perfect saint

Actually, he didn't mention anything about the previous guy...

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756937)

Which was the whole point.

By putting all the attention on the current guy, you ignore the fact that the previous guy laid the groundwork in the first place.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

NeverSuchBefore (2613927) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756997)

But that wasn't the whole point. He said it as if he was saying that the guy he replied to was claiming that the previous guy did no wrong. He didn't.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756637)

Are you serious? I get the impression that you believe a Republican would have done better, or more fairly? There really is a "kinder, gentler" way of trashing people's business, I imagine.

Straw man (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757073)

Nobody said that a Republican would do better, only that a Democrat did bad. Yes, they're both totally corrupt..

Re:Straw man (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757199)

True; they both are. And both houses of congress are stuck with silly games too. However, it is clear that one party wants to force their own religious mores onto everyone. Most people don't have any problem with people who hold differing views. But when they try to make those views into laws - yep, that's a problem. I can't vote for a party of religious thugs that want to control women, make birth control hard to obtain, make abortion illegal, and otherwise fuck things up. Other than that and the "small government" vs. "big government" the two parties are the same.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756721)

hahahh, oh Paultards, never change.

Paul would just let Blackwater assassinate KimDotcom.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756807)

It this meant to be funny? Because if not, it has to be the most clueless post of the day.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (4, Insightful)

shoehornjob (1632387) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756909)

That's a good point. As I recall he is responsible for putting at least 5 MAFIAA lawyers in the department of (un) justice. I wouldn't judge him on his choice of lawyers though. I'm sure Mitt would do the same thing. The problem here is that the government works for corporate interests and not the people. It would be nice to see a nice big fat juicy lawsuit (can you say class action) come out of this. Someone needs to put these asshole Mafiaa lawyers in their place.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (4, Informative)

stms (1132653) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757063)

I posted this here the other day but it seems very appropriate to post again. Bookmark this link List of SOPA/PIPA Supporters [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757119)

Hint. It isn't this, nor the other party.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757157)

What? You think Mitt Romney (or any of the Republican candidates) would be any better? Your politcal system is fucked up at the moment. I know you didn't say vote Republican, but the implication was that anyone but Obama was a good choice, when it isn't. Maybe if you vote for a third party and enough other people do it it will register on their radar and influence their policies.

Expect nothing to be done (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756463)

This problem will not be corrected. Too many people neither understand nor care, and too many wealthy and powerful people are keenly interested in retaining this ability to eliminate competition though abuse of the legal system.

Re:Expect nothing to be done (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756681)

This problem will be corrected.

New charges will be filed in order to easily exceed this 'threshold' for extradition.

Re:Expect nothing to be done (1)

rthille (8526) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756769)

Reading "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" leads me to believe that we who care need to make things much worse for those who don't, so they _will_ care. Only then will change happen.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756469)

Yet he still has the right to sue for damages. THAT should be a interesting trial.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

KorrodeAU (1546509) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756641)

Indeed. I'm looking forward to that headline: "U.S. Government sued for damages by MegaUpload, including future loss of business. Total claimed amount is counted in billions.".

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757175)

He'll kick their asses in court if (assuming his lawers don't suck) they never charge him under the statutes they claimed he was violating when killing his businesses.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (4, Insightful)

guruevi (827432) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756485)

Exactly. The *AA and their government goons have never cared about process. Same when you get arrested under false pretenses, the establishment gets off with a 'sorry' while in the mean time you lost your job, lost relationships and regardless of conviction you have a record that keeps influencing whether or not you'll get hired in the future and whether or not you keep getting re-arrested and strip searched for simply existing.

These days, the legal system simply has so much cruft, overbearing laws and process hindrances that simply the threat of getting arrested is enough to make you think about complying with whatever they want, getting arrested will give you perpetual problems in your life and getting convicted even if overturned later will make you an outcast.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (2)

Shajenko42 (627901) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756609)

Exactly. The *AA and their government goons have never cared about process. Same when you get arrested under false pretenses, the establishment gets off with a 'sorry' while in the mean time you lost your job, lost relationships and regardless of conviction you have a record that keeps influencing whether or not you'll get hired in the future and whether or not you keep getting re-arrested and strip searched for simply existing.

I vehemently disagree!

They almost never say "sorry".

FTFY (1)

Finallyjoined!!! (1158431) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756635)

"These days, the US legal system simply has so much cruft, overbearing laws and process hindrances that simply the threat of getting arrested is enough to make you think about complying with whatever they want, getting arrested will give you perpetual problems in your life and getting convicted even if overturned later will make you an outcast."

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

cpghost (719344) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756717)

His punishment has already been served, without trial and without due process.

But... but... without the trillions dollars of statutory damages from copyright infringement, the Entertainment Cartel will certainly go bankrupt. Would anybody please think of the MAFIAA executives' children?

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757051)

Say hello to a billion dollar lawsuit from Dotcom - that he will win...

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (1)

Chas (5144) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757101)

Winning is one thing. COLLECTING is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

Re:Trial and extradition were never the goal (4, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757213)

Welcome to the new 'justice' system. Isn't it grand?

Wasn't that the point? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756455)

If their goal was to shutdown his site and put him out of business, they seem to have succeeded.

Shit Like This... (5, Interesting)

darthdavid (835069) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756465)

makes me embarrassed to be an American. I'll be voting Socialist come November and encouraging everyone I know to vote third party, not that it will make a difference. The unwashed masses will continue voting keep voting for Ds and Rs because "anything else is a wasted vote...", and the Ds and Rs will keep sucking corporate cock at every opportunity because they know where their bread is buttered.

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756487)

This would have never gone down with a liberatarian administration.

Re:Shit Like This... (3, Insightful)

cyber-vandal (148830) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756545)

Nope, instead the MAFIAA would've sent goons from Pinkerton's in to wreck the hosting company's offices and server rooms.

Re:Shit Like This... (5, Insightful)

anwaya (574190) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756591)

This would have never gone down with a liberatarian administration.

You may be right: for example, the extremely wealthy backers of the MPAA and RIAA would simply pay top dollar to a platoon of mercenaries, who would level the data centers and murder everyone that provided the services. If there were still a DoJ and Court system, they would already have bought off all the prosecutors and judges. Case closed.
Or do you think this wouldn't happen under a Libertarian administration either? If so, what do you understand to be the Libertarian proposal for a system of justice?

Re:Shit Like This... (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756629)

And you're telling me you do?

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756647)

If you're claiming that corruption would kill the libertarian utopia, then consider the OP was claiming he would vote socialist.

Re:Shit Like This... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756785)

First: You misunderstood him; understandable, since "liberatarian" is not a word, but he meant a librarian administration, not libertarian... ;)

Seriously: "Libertarian" doesn't identify a unique philosophical or practical viewpoint; it refers to one or several fairly broad families of thought focused on similar (in some ways) principles. In the US, libertarians are almost always capitalist, but note that there are also "socialist libertarians", more common in Europe; I'm going to disregard them from here out and take libertarian to mean "capitalist libertarian", since AFAIK that's what you and GP meant.

Many (IMO most) people who describe themselves as "libertarian" don't even go so far as to support what's known as "minimalist government" or minarchism, i.e. that the only legitimate branches of government are military, courts, and police (note there's not even a legislature -- the notion being that all the truly necessary and proper laws may be written into the constitution, and that if times change enough that that needs changed, you can always abolish the government and start over. As I said, many/most don't even go that far -- and yes, a few go even further, suggesting that one or more of those three branches (commonly the military) may be replaced by private sector and/or self-organized action. But about time their ideal government doesn't have a court system, they usually identify as anarchist rather than libertarian.

And even if there is no government court, the (IMO dubious) assumption is generally that a system of private-sector courts will provide justice, and in every treatment of this concept I've read, the party purporting to be harmed (i.e. Kim Dotcom, his business partners, and/or his surviving family) get to choose the court in which they bring suit. So unless they've bought off every private court in the land, and keep buying off new ones as they come up, we may presume that the suit would proceed in one of the non-bought-off courts -- makes it worse, not better, for your thesis.

And as to buying off prosecutors and judges -- what stops that from happening now? Oh, yeah, it's against the law, so the next layer of prosecutors and judges will throw your ass in jail and/or fine you heavily for it. (Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Well, theoretically, if/when corruption gets bad enough, the people revolt, usually followed up by installing an even worse government; life sucks that way.) Same exact mechanism applies to most libertarian conceptions of the state. And sending mercs (or doing it yourself) to murder anyone would be a serious crime in any libertarian ideal I've ever heard of. So it's really hard to see how the scenario you propose would play out any differently at all in a libertarian state than in what we have.

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

Toonol (1057698) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757225)

This is a bit like criticizing Obama because he is selling our secrets to the Martians. Making successful arguments against something which is NOT AT ALL TRUE is not hard, but it also isn't any form of victory. It may feel like a victory, but that's simply a consequence of your own faulty understanding.

Let me put it this way: Why should we listen to you, a wife beater and crack cocaine user? Wife beaters and crack cocaine users are bad.

Do you understand?

Re:Shit Like This... (1)

M1FCJ (586251) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756671)

Libertarians with their extreme capitalist views would do anything to protect MPIAA and RIAA. Dog eat dog capitalism. When they talk about 'liberty', it's liberty of abusing others, protecting everything you own (with weapons if necessary) and pure freedom to do anything.

Re:Shit Like This... (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757001)

Yeah I can talk about of rediciulous crap too. GTFO.

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757003)

Intellectual property is incompatible with libertarianism. (See: http://mises.org/journals/jls/15_2/15_2_1.pdf)

Re:Shit Like This... (2)

NeverSuchBefore (2613927) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757021)

What? From what I've saw, libertarians in the US are generally pro-free market. Copyright doesn't allow for a free market at all.

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756731)

No, private security agents would have been dispatched to rub him out. Of course, you don't actually pay attention to what they REALLY care about.

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756789)

I'll be voting Socialist come November and encouraging everyone I know to vote third party, not that it will make a difference.

I've decided that this election, I am not going to vote.

Instead, I am going to write a letter to each and every candidate on the ballot pointing out and explaining exactly why I did not vote for them specifically.

I don't mind if they assume that means I voted for the other party, assume I voted for no one, or assume I don't matter.
But I want them to know why they have failed me on an individual level.

As you say, voting literally does not matter. They will rig things how they want them to be, and with their new MS access voting machines that can be over written by inserting a flash card, there is no uncertainty they WILL get the results they want. Fuck that noise.

If each candidate sleeps a little less well at night knowing how they have failed us all and seeing exactly how worse off they have made the world, then I will consider my efforts to have had more effect than a single vote could any day.

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756863)

So... You find none of the third-party candidates acceptable?

OK... So don't vote for them, and by all means write those letters. But not voting at all? That's just crazy. Write-in exists for a reason -- write yourself in, or if you're concerned with the privacy loss, write in "Guy Fawkes", "Thomas Jefferson", or perhaps the satiric choice "Nehemiah Scudder" (particularly this year!). Most districts are not contested enough to be worth fucking with the results and the entailing risk of scandal. If yours chances to be one of them, and you didn't vote, then the only signal you send is the letters, where you could have sent an additional signal for very little effort by voting. Personally, I have always found one or more of the third party candidates acceptable (not going to go into which, as that's beside the point), but if you don't, fine -- a write-in still gets counted as a vote that wasn't for any of the parties.

Re:Shit Like This... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757305)

Voting for the interregnum of the prophets (Nehemiah Scudder) would probably fall on deaf ears... If enough voted for that name to even get the attention of Faux News, they would just spin it as "see, people do want a religious theocracy run by a prophet". Whilst the rest of us would understand satire, they might get a movement off the ground to actually make that happen. I shudder to think that someday Europeans or South Americans or someone might have to actually debate organizing an action to "liberate" the USA.

Re:Shit Like This... (1)

Anthony Mouse (1927662) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756913)

I'll be voting Socialist come November

That'll show them.

Voting is necessary but not sufficient. The vote comes too late: If the incumbent wins, he thinks he's got a mandate to keep doing what he's been doing. If the incumbent loses, the new guy thinks he's got a mandate to do whatever he wants. In no event does voting send the right message, unless your vote actually changes the outcome of the election -- and good luck with that.

You need to make sure they understand what you need them to do before the election, that way they can actually do it. We didn't stop SOPA by voting anybody out of office -- we stopped it with millions of letters and phone calls, threatening to vote them out. If it actually comes down to you having to make good on the threat, you can certainly vote them out if you have the numbers, but by then it's already too late.

You can't just make a credible threat and then execute it. You're missing the most important part, which is to make sure they understand that you're going to kick them to the curb if they don't do what you want. So get off your ass and write a letter to your congress critters.

Re:Shit Like This... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757139)

Doesn't matter who you vote for, the entire political system is outdated. Half a century ago a 4-year term was ok, but in this fast-paced world 4 years is like writing someone a blank cheque. The only fix is turn the political system upside down, make candidates sign contracts with penalties, post bonds, do something to make sure they don't break promises and behave. Shorten the terms, if only to give people a chance to "review" the government annually and say "good enough, keep going" or "no, fire them now an hire someone else."

Alas, the Americans have so much hubris that they will let get things much worse before they realize their precious "democracy" is totally outdated.

Be thankful, Kim. (4, Interesting)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756483)

"...having his business trashed this way, with 220 jobs lost, and millions left without access to their legitimate data."

Kim, you should be thankful that this attempt to bring democracy to your country ended with so few casualties. The United States is generally far more aggressive regarding its use of military forces to support economic (corporate) policies. You could have been picked up by a bounty hunter, or kidnapped by operatives. I wish I could say I was joking here -- several federal legislators and officials have stated that they consider filesharing and copyright infringement to be supporting terrorism.

On the upside, your sacrifice may bring additional business to New Zealand, as well as prompt a review of disaster recovery with an emphasis on protection against foreign governments. Again, I wish it was a joke -- ten years ago, disaster recovery plans centered around the damage backhoes and hurricanes could do. Today, those risks can be cheaply mitigated thanks to cloud architecture and data centers in almost every major city worldwide. The biggest threat which cannot be managed by a business anymore is the threat posed by a rogue foreign government such as the United States. Though I am hardly singling them out -- the UK, China, Iran, North Korea, India, Iraq, France, Germany and Egypt join them on the list of foreign governments who have attempted to destroy businesses extrajudicially.

Re:Be thankful, Kim. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756577)

Sounds like you've been watching too many american movies... unless you are thinking of Osama's assassination?

Re:Be thankful, Kim. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756743)

Two companies popped into my head:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Corporation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Fruit_Company

These companies serve as an example how US government can overthrow newly elected governments because some US corporation requests it.

Re:Be thankful, Kim. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756781)

Sometimes reality is more scary than the movies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition_by_the_United_States [wikipedia.org]

This has been going on for almost 2 decades now and you still believe it was a myth... :S

Assange and dotcom (1, Redundant)

barv (1382797) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756923)

Heroes of the fight against control of information on the www.

Legislators will use any excuse to put in place the mechanism of web censorship. Kiddie porn, terrorism, copyright theft; they are all excuses.

What they want is the power to censor negative comment about themselves...

Whoops! (1)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756491)

Ah well, no harm done!

I wonder if he will be able to sue the US government for the millions/billions lost in buisiness.

Re:Whoops! (4, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756643)

if there were justice, he would be able to sue the .nz officials(who failed to do their duty), the fbi officials(who failed to do their duty) and the RIAA posse who misinformed those officials.

and all customers should be able to too.

in case someone is wondering, apparently the .nz officials failed to serve the company mega upload with a notice - a notice that would have probably allowed their lawyers to fight. furthermore it seems the intent of the american officials was to sue the individuals who had assets in megaupload for conspiracy instead of suing megaupload(it seems copyright violation is 4 years max in .nz, which wouldn't qualify for extradition - though even more likely is that the original real plan was just that dotcom would do a plea bargain.. ).

Re:Whoops! (1)

Kotoku (1531373) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756723)

Not without appearing in U.S. court which I HIGHLY doubt he wants to do! Its a catch 22 that allows his business to be wrecked without recourse.

Re:Whoops! (2)

Zocalo (252965) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756847)

Wrong target. He needs to sue the New Zealand government since they were the ones that really allowed this to happen in the first place. If they'd been a little more circumspect about allowing the US to tell them what to do, or even told them to get stuffed and released Kim without charge as soon as the US started to blatently try to screw with due process, this farce wouldn't have got to the scale it has. While I personally think Kim is guilty as hell of the charges of willfully encouraging copyright infringement, if this leads to goverments being a little less willing to let the US extend its laws so far out of their jurisdiction in future then that's just great.

Well, probably just great, because any cooling in legal co-operation will probably apply to other matters as well. It's going to look really good if they manage to miss bagging some criminal or terror kingpin because some foreign governement was double checking the paperwork to avoid another Kim Dotcom style mess.

For crying out loud (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756611)

It was a WAREZ website, everyone knew it. They actively encouraged (paid cash to) people to upload more and more warez.

Please stop whining about how unfair it is to that sweet wonderful Mr. Dotcom.

Use your time to work on something meaningful, not whining about your tragic lost warez website.

Re:For crying out loud (5, Insightful)

Cederic (9623) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757293)

It may or may not. I don't know, and I can't tell because it hasn't gone to trial.

What has happened is that someone's had their business disrupted, and their customers have had their personal data stolen from them, all without due process of the law.

There has been a crime here, and even copyright infringers deserve a fair trial. Those trying to deny it to them need prosecuting.

Seems Poetic (0)

brit74 (831798) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756657)

> "has a few choice words to say about having his business trashed this way, with 220 jobs lost"
While the legality of the move raises questions, I have to admit, there seems something poetic about someone who earned a fortune on ill-gotten, pirated material complaining about having his business trashed and jobs lost.

Re:Seems Poetic (4, Informative)

billcopc (196330) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756831)

The argument will always be that he merely offered a service that was in huge demand. What the users did with it cannot be blamed on the operator. At least, not when you stick to basic common sense and not U.S. protectionist copyright laws.

Re:Seems Poetic (-1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757117)

And that argument is pure bullshit or wishful thinking. The guy used to run a warez BBS and pay uploaders for it! You think he didn't realize he was running a warez website now and paying uploaders for it?

Re:Seems Poetic (4, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756903)

While the legality of the move raises questions, I have to admit, there seems something poetic about someone who earned a fortune on ill-gotten, pirated material complaining about having his business trashed and jobs lost.

Yet who was it that claimed that Megaupload's principle use was copyright infringement? Megaupload had large numbers of law-abiding users, including people within the Justice department and even more ironically, within the entertainment industry. You might as well claim that ISPs are built on "ill-gotten, pirated material" -- after all, practically all downloading activity takes place on the Internet.

An indictment is not a conviction, it is a preliminary accusation backed up with some amount of evidence. If indictments were conclusive, we would never need trials.

Re:Seems Poetic (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757125)

Yet who was it that claimed that Megaupload's principle use was copyright infringement?

Anybody with an iota of common sense could tell that, long before they were raided.

Millions left w/o access to their legitimate data? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756665)

Millions left without access to their legitimate data?

More like

Millions left unable to stream pirate video. Millions left unable to download pirated software.

The idea that MegaUpload had "millions" of legitimate customers is simply absurd. If an actual breakdown of legitimate versus illegitimate files on MegaUpload was released I think people would be shocked.

Read the indictment (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756691)

They will extradite him, he will be prosecuted in the USA, anyone who thinks otherwise should read the indictment it's damning.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/78786408/Mega-Indictment

Fake take down notices, fake accounts to keep copyright material posted, instructions to ignore copyright takedowns not politically connected, money laundering. It's pretty damning stuff, so you can say "Megaupload wasn't given notice of server seizure" etc. but that won't stop a judge reading the indictment and extraditing him. 220 jobs lost? I'm wondering how many of those 220 will also end up behind bars after reading the indictment.

Re:Read the indictment (2)

NeverSuchBefore (2613927) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756873)

They will extradite him

Yes, for copyright infringement. My heroes! The US, the world's police force, has saved us all from such a heinous criminal. Think of all the bits that they stopped from being copied! Totally worth all of this taxpayer money being wasted.

No (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757085)

Copyright infringement would be if he'd violated copyright. Read the indictment, he went so much further.

Re:No (1)

NeverSuchBefore (2613927) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757153)

Yeah, but it ultimately comes down to intellectual property nonsense. Even if it didn't, the US absolutely should not be involved.

Less of a criminal than Hollywood + government (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757251)

Even if he is a criminal, those "crimes" are all against bullshit laws created by a corrupt government fully paid for by a endemically corrupting film and entertainment industry.

Compare the ill effects caused by one versus the other and MegaUpload is a saint. They don't give hundreds of thousands of our youngsters criminal records when all they want to do is share their culture.

He's certainly profiting from it all, but when it comes to good versus bad and fighting against the Luddites in power, he's on the side of good.

Don't feel sorry for him or his business (1, Interesting)

kyrio (1091003) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756719)

I don't feel sorry for him or his business. He was knowingly running a warez hub. On top of that, he was running it as a for-profit warez distribution website. What his external marketing showed is meaningless compared to what actually occurred behind the scenes.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who uploaded their only copy of their files to Megaupload, either. It's no one's issue but the uploader's if he was dumb enough to not have multiple physical backups of files that he definitely couldn't lose. Anyone dumb enough to also pay money to share their files on a site that is filled with ads also gets what's coming to him. There are at least 10 sites out there that provide you with a clean, easy to use and efficient service - even for free - for sharing files without any ads.

This whole situation is just children, Brazilians and the mentally challenged just whining about not being able to get their warez, or losing a couple of dollars to a company that shut down and didn't give them a refund. I didn't see any cries from the people who lost hundreds or even thousands of dollars when Etology scammed every advertiser and publisher, last summer.

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756823)

You do know that even your government stored files there? Their only copies even?

Then again, you mentioned the mentally retarded...

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756843)

^This.
You'd think if file sharing had no effect on the industry, the surely stopping the file sharing would also have no effect...

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (4, Insightful)

NeverSuchBefore (2613927) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756855)

I don't feel sorry for him or his business

The US government very likely didn't follow procedure, as we see here. Do you not see how dangerous this is to allow them to do as they please? Whatever you think of Kim and Megaupload, think of yourself and others first. If they can do this to him, they can do this to anyone. They can ruin anyone's business. That's not good.

I don't feel sorry for anyone who uploaded their only copy of their files to Megaupload, either.

Sorry that everyone isn't as technologically minded as you are.

You know what's funny, though? While they may not have had an expectation that their data would stay there forever, I'm almost positive Megaupload would have informed them if they were going to legitimately shut down their website. That would give them time to get their files. But here, thanks to the US government, it was shut down instantly and without notice. Very nice.

This whole situation is just children, Brazilians and the mentally challenged just whining about not being able to get their warez

Uh... what about people with legitimate data hosted there? You even mentioned them in the above paragraph. I have a feeling they're "whining" about it, too. Probably whining that it's the US government's fault.

Nice generalizations, though.

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756885)

I don't feel sorry for him or his business. He was knowingly running a warez hub. On top of that, he was running it as a for-profit warez distribution website.

This is Slashdot. He was shut down by a government (doesn't matter which). Therefore, your argument is invalid.

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756925)

so what you're saying is that you only get to complain if you lost more than a certain dollar amount. how...1% of you... I suppose we should just eliminate children, Brazilians and the mentally challenged too? Sieg Heil!

you work for a *AA don't you?

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (4, Interesting)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756961)

He was knowingly running a warez hub

Which was also used by the United States government, the recording industry, and an enormous number of other law abiding people.

On top of that, he was running it as a for-profit warez distribution website

So why are ISP operators not behind bars as well? What, do you really think that broadband service is not targeted at people who upload and download copyrighted material without permission? Let's not get caught up in external marketing here.

This whole situation is just...

...a demonstration that due process of law, common sense, and technological progress are all killed the moment the copyright lobbyists start whining.

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (1)

Goaway (82658) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757143)

So why are ISP operators not behind bars as well?

Probably has something to do with how ISPs don't pay people to upload copyrighted material to their servers.

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (1)

Oakey (311319) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757147)

Meanwhile, Usenet providers (who are mostly US operated companies by the look of it) continue unhindered. I wonder how many people are paying $20 a month to the likes of Giganews for 1000day binary retention, fast connections, etc for legitimate purposes?

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (2)

HornWumpus (783565) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757289)

First rule of usenet! Mod parent down.

Re:Don't feel sorry for him or his business (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39757185)

I feel sorry for you losing dollars when Etology shut down last summer *hug*

Millions of legitimate users? (0, Troll)

gnasher719 (869701) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756749)

Really? Millions of users who used megaupload for backups, or for distributing their own material and nothing else, _and_ who have no other copy of the data? Might the submitter be just slightly exaggerating?

Re:Millions of legitimate users? (4, Informative)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756877)

Really? Millions of users who used megaupload for backups, or for distributing their own material and nothing else, _and_ who have no other copy of the data? Might the submitter be just slightly exaggerating?

Unlikely. Apparently, there were 15'000 premium accounts from the US army alone. Millions of legitimate users sounds quite reasonable. Also take into account that there is only so many movies and software that can be shared and music does not take a lot of space. Compare that with the size of the Megaupload storage and it sounds quite possible that the majority of data was actually legitimate. Of course, a major part of the Megaupload profits were from copyright infringement, but that is not the fault of the legitimate users.

Re:Millions of legitimate users? (1)

10101001 10101001 (732688) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757025)

Millions of users who used megaupload for backups, or for distributing their own material and nothing else, _and_ who have no other copy of the data?

And why the "_and_ who have no other copy of the data"? If you used megaupload for backups, well, now you've lost access to your data for that purpose. If you used it to distribute your own material to others, well you've against lost access to your data for that purpose. Sure, you can setup a new backup service somewhere else, but that still means you've been inconvenienced and under questionable justification. Having said that...

Might the submitter be just slightly exaggerating?

And to this, I agree. I doubt megaupload itself had millions of users for backup and distribution (although I could be wrong). But, I don't doubt that megaupload and other similar services have lost millions of users for those purposes, due to the chilling knowledge that without even the ability to charge and extradite them under US law, they still can be shut down at will; hence, any free or semi-free service for file sharing or backup is now quick to tuck its tail and try to limit access and to make even legitimate access arduous enough that the pretext of "for the children^Wpiracy" will even be more clear, presuming that will protect them. So, there are those who are inconvenienced by the loss of megaupload directly and indirectly and further inconvenienced with the possible inability to find alternatives.

Now, one could argue that such services inherently have the property that they'll be used by pirates, their owners will inherently be enriched by them, and hence such a market for free/semi-free file sharing shouldn't commercial exist--meanwhile, fully commercial and well filtered sites can remain because they have the resources to monitor and block offenders*. I am not quick to argue for that, however, as the same logic could be used for all sorts of free/semi-free services like photo sharing sites, email, etc. It's already enough of a poison pill that other, non-legal speech can be used to shut down services without adding yet another arm when it's even harder to qualify or quantify. After all, both sides can say whatever numbers they like, but we have no third party with either the ability or the desire to track down the users (both uploaders and downloaders) of sites like Megaupload; nor, am I aware, of efforts to do the same for photo sharing sites, email, etc, to have some base of comparison. But, then again, maybe we do have the scholarly work to back up one side or both in their assertions. That, to me, would be much more interesting and informative than hearing lawyers squabble over something that there seems to be no evidence for currently and might not exist.

*Consider the situation with Youtube and Gema, and how difficult it is to reasonably find and block even repeat offenders, even if one wanted to. And consider the story of IOS being a safer market presumably because it's tied to accountability through credit cards; yet, Android has a similar setup with credit cards, so does that really help? Of course, that story is quite is unclear on what "policies that enforce accountability" mean and how viable it really is if you took credit cards or a similar cost/identification out of the equation; maybe they enforce accountability some other way. And for all we know, Megaupload had a similar policy in place as Apple. But even if they were "lax", even presuming that's how Google is, is there any real serious talk of legally holding Google as an accomplice in malware infections (or guilty of neglect) anymore than we could hold MS legally guilty for their platform being favored for the same? Of course, in the end, intent does enter into it. Ie, if Megaupload actually wanted for there to be copyright infringement... But, a policy of rewarding sharing on a site devoted to sharing being used to implicate Megaupload is absurd as seeing Youtube's (and hence Google's) policy of the same being used to implicate their desire to elicit copyright infringement; in truth, it's good business and seen as ethical to reward the popular users precisely because they're the ones who draw in business, be it being paid in advertisement revenue or premium accounts. It'd seem clear that actual evidence of intent would need to be provided, not merely conjecture and supposition. :/

Re:Millions of legitimate users? (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757041)

I actually would not be surprised if the number of "legitimate" (i.e. attempts at being law-abiding) users numbered in the millions. Megaupload provides a bunch of bandwidth and storage, so if you need to distribute gigabytes of data to multiple people it is a reasonable system to use. I have seen scientists using Megaupload and similar services to share data sets. The US Department of Justice used it, and there were members of the recording industry who used it. I have seen open source projects distributed on services like Megaupload, with links posted on forums to help provide more reliable downloads than the project's own servers (an ad-hoc sort of mirroring).

Millions seems like a reasonable estimate to me.

Wah wah... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39756865)

He was paying people to upload pirated content and they have proof of it. He can DIAF

The IP Nazis made an "Example" of him (1)

dryriver (1010635) | more than 2 years ago | (#39756871)

The IP Nazis know that fighting a battle against the entire internet is difficult, costly and unpopular (not that they care the least bit about that last point). So they resort to a much cheaper, age-old, yet highly effective scare-tactic instead: Making "examples" of people. They try to identify high-profile Super-Nodes amongst the filesharers - like the guy who ran MegaUpload dot com. They then put into effect a "America will fuck you up bad regardless of where you may be in the World, pirate-boy" tactic. The message it sends to ordinary people is clear: "We don't care who you are. We don't care where you are. If you pirate our corporate IPs, we will land some law enforcement muscle in your location, and fuck you in the ass with an electrified baton". --------- This is one - probably illegal - way to fight against piracy. Unfortunately, it will eventually backfire on the MAFIAA's asses, and with it also on America. Everybody who watches movies or plays games these days is pretty aware that the quality of said products is going in one direction with each year that passes - down, down, and down more. Everybody knows that the people who produce this stuff don't give a shit about anything but profit, and that they are crooked enough to buy good reviews for bad produce. So eventually, sales of the latter will collapse not because people were pirating so much of it, but rather because people don't want to spend their hard-earned money on it anymore. Its time for functional alternatives to Hollywood and GameWood to arise. I personally believe that will actually happen eventually, when people discover that there are viable alternatives to U.S. made movies and games. As for Kim Dotcom... even if he's not extradited and sentenced to hard prison, people who run operations similar to his are scared of becoming "the next Kim Dotcom". ------- But scare strategies rarely work sattisfactorily in the long run. In the long run, the Movie and game industries will have to try to create a better product sold at a fair price (not the case currently). Or they will eventually face the same fate as MegaUpload - here and thriving today, gone and bankrupt(ed) tomorrow.

millions? (1)

Shavano (2541114) | more than 2 years ago | (#39757015)

I really doubt that millions of people were more than slightly inconvenienced. Smart people didn't put their only copy of any data they thought was important there. A service like that is for backups and exchange with other users. Unless either you were stupid or list your original due to a crash, you can just re-upload to another service.

Otherwise only Megaupload itself and Carpathian are really up a creek.

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