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Wozniak Praises 'Beautiful' Windows Phone

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the what-does-that-guy-know? dept.

Cellphones 362

judgecorp writes "Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak has praised the user interface of Microsoft's Windows Phone, saying that aspects of its user interface are more 'beautiful' than comparable sides to the iPhone. The comments, in a New Domain, follow on from a comment by Forrester boss George Colony who blogged that Apple would decline in the post-Jobs era. Both pieces have kicked off the kind of online argument you would expect."

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Windows Phone 7 (-1, Troll)

TechCar (2628639) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857001)

Apple's co-founder Steve Wozniak isn't alone with this opinion. It's been one of the most common opinions of WP7 phone users. It's true, too. Windows Phone 7 UI is beautiful and even better than iPhone's, not to mention Android. Microsoft really outdid themselves with that. Where MS has failed is to get good partners to actually make the devices as Google has tricked their way in with Android. However, that is about to change now that Nokia will be putting out quality WP7 smart phones. I know I will be getting one soon. The platform has been growing intensely lately, especially on app and developers front. C# and Visual Studio are great for developing for WP7.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (4, Insightful)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857061)

I played with a Lumia 900. It's well thought out but execution is lacking. The thing wouldn't get on the in store AT&T wifi. So I go to toggle it off and see what LTE is all about and the soft toggle for wifi on/off gets stuck in the middle. Err. What? It's a UI element! Really?

Windows phone 7 is full of interesting and good ideas with poor execution and little polish.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (2, Insightful)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857197)

I have a WP7 phone (HTC). I've never seen those issues. I'm guessing they are hardware/driver issues. I'm guessing the UI toggle is tied to the processing state of the action - it stalled in the middle, so it died.

And you can't blame the phone OS if the store can't make their WiFi and phones work together. I've used my phone on my WiFi at work and the Sprint store, and had no issues whatsoever.

WP7 has it's flaws, particularly with the 3rd party dev API, but the issues you mentioned seem more likely to be AT&T or the hardware manufacturer.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857341)

Wow, that's some pretty horrible justifications there.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857639)

Wow, that is some pretty blatant Microsoft bashing there.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

redbeardcanada (1052028) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857325)

Yeah, I played with it too, and it did feel like an early release product.

It was interesting enough though that I would consider it in a year or so. What would make the difference for me will be how they handle integration with MS Office (and OneNote); if this is seamless and intuitive this would make a good business phone. The iPhone (my current phone) is great for everything else I do, but still seems forced whenever it needs to interact with Exchange, and Safari doesn't seem to handle SharePoint sites well (although this is not likely Apples fault). Android also seems to have this issue, and it was non-existent on my BB.

So I'll wait and see...

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

HerculesMO (693085) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857379)

Yes, because anecdotal evidence tends to be more true.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (5, Funny)

localman57 (1340533) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857407)

Yes, because anecdotal evidence tends to be more true.

I've found that to be true in my personal experience.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1, Informative)

Shompol (1690084) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857421)

My relative got W7 phone as her first smartphone. During contact export from SIM card some phone numbers got reattached to wrong contacts. This is exactly what I told her: it is new, raw and un-patched, you bought it at your own risk.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857481)

Well, at least it didn't explode in your "relative's" hand, like an new release iPhone.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (5, Interesting)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857601)

Your complaint is hardly specific to Windows Phone 7 tho - I've not used it (consider that a caveat) so I can't comment on WP7, but I've had my fair share of UI glitches and software slide buttons sticking on both Android (HTC Desire, 2.1 iirc) and iPhone.

I've even had situations where the iPhone wont let me answer a call thats ringing, because the screen isnt responding to the slide - the call goes to voice mail, the screen reverts back to the lock screen, and suddenly everything works again.

I've had situations where I couldn't hang up the call on both the iPhone and Android. Now thats not a great situation to be in!

My iPhone also won't connect to my local pubs wifi, even when Im sat a couple of meters away from the router - won't see it, and if I try and connect manually it won't join the network.

So execution is really lacking all round.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857065)

Yeah, and they've been paying clueless morons to rave about their shit on the internet too. Combined with subpar features and absolutely no interest from the public market, WP7 will make a fucking killing in Slashdot comment threads but nowhere else!

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857289)

I was given a Windows phone (older Samsung) at a conference to "eval". It does seem nice and all, but there aren't any apps for it yet. Things like - Google Voice - which is a must for me just aren't there. (And no, using the web page to make calls is not a workaround - it is a joke.) So instead of switching to the Windows phone for a bit, I thought I'd just activate it as a second phone for a couple of months. Verizon wanted a minimum of $60 a month more for me to just have a phone to play around with. And that was if I changed my plan (which would cancel my current unlimited data). If I stayed on my current plan they wanted $70 more a month. It just wasn't worth it. But I've played with the features of the phone over WiFi and it seems very nice. Without apps though not too many people will want it.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (3, Insightful)

PoliTech (998983) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857637)

Did you actually mean to say that you think Steve Wozniak is a paid Microsoft Shill? (Not to mention a clueless moron?) Or did you just fail to proofread your trolling?

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857073)

If Virgin Mobile picks up a decent WP7 phone I may be interested, actually.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (5, Insightful)

cptdondo (59460) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857087)

OK, the hyper-coordination between articles praising the WinPhone and gushing first posts is getting annoying.... How about a 15 minute rule between article and first post? Or maybe restrict first post to accounts that have been around for more than 15 minutes?

Re:Windows Phone 7 (3, Insightful)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857177)

Or you should visit the Firehose more often.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (5, Informative)

flibbidyfloo (451053) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857201)

Come on, that's not fair. The first poster, TechCar, has a long history of 8 posts dating all the way back to two days ago! :)

Re:Windows Phone 7 (2)

Yvan256 (722131) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857283)

In Internet time, two days ago is like two centuries! ...wait a minute, we didn't even have computers and internet two centuries ago!!

TechCar is an alien visiting from the future!!!

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857323)

Yeah and like 3-4 of them are raving about some sort of MS product, dissing Linux or dissing Google.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857375)

Well, to be more fair, he almost certainly has a shitload more posts than that going back for quite a bit longer, just spread between a few dozen accounts.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

redbeardcanada (1052028) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857257)

Or restrict first posts to only say "First!", like we always used to do...

Re:Windows Phone 7 (5, Interesting)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857263)

Look, just because his name is similar to other first-posting newly created account names accused of being MS shills (TechNY/TechLA), the account was created just yesterday and he only made pro-MS and anti-Google postings since then doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean anything at all ...

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857643)

Look, just because his name is similar to other first-posting newly created account names accused of being MS shills (TechNY/TechLA), the account was created just yesterday and he only made pro-MS and anti-Google postings since then doesn't mean anything. Doesn't mean anything at all ...

The question is whether this behaviour is actually shilling, or just a troll wanting to wind people up by making them think he's shilling (badly). I suspect the latter.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (5, Insightful)

CowTipperGore (1081903) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857389)

TechCar is the latest iteration of a large group of astroturfing accounts. There's a bunch of high UID accounts with similar style names (two random words smashed together) that shill pro-Microsoft and anti-Google positions. Unsurprisingly, he was born yesterday to post in Bonch's story claiming Google management knew about the wifi harvesting. He shows up to defend a well-established anti-Google (and pro-Apple) shill and has since posted a series of anti-Linux, anti-Google, and pro-Microsoft comments.

Assuming he follows the same pattern as the rest, mods will catch on in a week or two and his karma will plummet. The account will get put to sleep and a new one will be created.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (2)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857493)

And thus completes the circle of life...cue Elton John!

Re:Windows Phone 7 (2)

nschubach (922175) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857549)

The astroturfing and that song have a few things in common... one of which is irritation. It's pretty sad how Slashdot is getting "gamed" so easily by this group. (I seriously don't think it's just one person...)

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857573)

my first thought was Gary Oldman

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

Tawnos (1030370) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857675)

I'm pretty sure that the people doing the first post prepared in advance are just trolls stepping up their game.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857423)

How about growing up, and just ignoring things that bother you on the internet?

It's not like the 50th, 100th, 200th post is insightful. This is slashdot.

They now have a BI section. They think that has to do with nerds and technology.

It is the worst of "IT World", and the worst of fark. The trolls are the only thing I find enjoyable about the site anymore.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1, Insightful)

ThePub2000 (974698) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857129)

I really like my WP7. It's simple and straight-to-the point in how it gets the job done. The MS Office integration between desktop 2010 and WP7 using live is excellent and I don't think it would be easy to live without now that it's something in my phone! My biggest complaint is that lack of "ease" of integration with Windows 7. The Zune software is really crappy. Additionally not being able to link with bluetooth is silly, really the phone should be able to do everything over BT but instead it's a pointless addition to any WP7 handset. Otherwise I have been really impressed by the WP7. I bought it not knowing what I'd get and have been more than pleasantly surprised.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

shugah (881805) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857621)

I'm sure both other WP7 customers share your impressions.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (2, Informative)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857147)

However, that is about to change now that Nokia will be putting out quality WP7 smart phones.

'Nokia' and 'quality' should not be put in the same sentence.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857491)

Hey! "Indestructible" is a quality.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857515)

Hey! "Indestructible" is a quality.

Yes... and it's one Nokia phones lack.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0, Troll)

Andreas Mayer (1486091) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857155)

Bah.
Yet another obvious Microsoft shill.

As to the story: There's a reason, Woz has been an engineer and not a designer at Apple.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857243)

shutthefuckup apple fanboy... ...go back to lighting a candle for your dearly departed messiah

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857157)

Dude! You're totally right! Once I get this and Windows 8 I'll be like completely stoked!! And oh yeah, send me that sweet Bill Gates wallpaper, bro!

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857167)

Have fun with your windows phone and its 3 Apps.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857251)

I don't think the app count is the issue, there are a lot of apps.

The app usefulness is the issue - the API, is at bast, extremely lacking in a lot of areas. There are some modern things that are very useful for apps, that just can't be done effectively with it. Outside of single player games, and some trivial stuff, there's not much interesting, in a modern sense, that you can do effectively with it.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857525)

How is the overall stability? With my android phone running Samsung/AT&T OEM Android Gingerbread I suffer about three hard lock-ups a week requiring a battery pull to reset the system. I hate it. A factory restore a month ago made things better for a while but I'm back to lockups again. I just disabled Javascript in the browser, hopefully that'll help. I use the phone for light to moderate web browsing, text messaging a lot and making phone calls. It seems like it can't handle a lot of fast app switching and fast switching from standby to on and back. Or maybe the user input queue gets hosed. It locks up a lot when I get a key bounce on the "on" button and double stroke it by accident.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (5, Interesting)

ByOhTek (1181381) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857171)

I think your post misses one huge flaw with WP7
The developer API, it's too restrictive. No good way to get your apps to share data between each other. Only network connection allowed is HTTP. No single source of online storage (last I checked the SkyDrive API wasn't opened, so you can't use it, by the developer contract).

Yes, it has a clean and effective API, but in terms of functionality from 3rd party apps, it lacks, and would still lack, even if it had all the developers of iOS and Android combined.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857223)

Pretty much everything you just complained about is not true anymore. When they released Mango it allowed for more than just http requests and also the SkyDrive API is quit open. You should give it another gander because things have changed drastically in the last year.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (-1)

KlomDark (6370) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857239)

And besides HTTP, what do you see it needing? What can't be done with HTTP?

What are you babbling about? Come, come, elucidate!

Re:Windows Phone 7 (4, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857445)

HTTP is not a replacement for every other protocol. I am sick of the brain dead thinking it is. We have other protocols for a reason.

As a simple example, http sure is not enough for an ftp client, ssh client, etc, etc, etc. 7.5 of course will let you do all these things.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

afidel (530433) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857527)

Sure HTTP/S can replace ftp, even SCP, and there are plenty of implementations of the common uses for an SSH client that use HTTP/S. The biggest problem is if you are trying to connect to a service that you don't control, in that case you'll need clients designed for a specific protocol which would make things difficult with a locked down phone platform.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

JustSomeProgrammer (1881750) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857463)

secure data transmission. Assuming Http is the only thing allowed that would mean https is not allowed.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857467)

Just the first thing that pops into my head... SSH?

Unless you're going with the notion that everyone should rent a VPS and run their own IP-over-HTTP tunnel through it, which somehow seems unlikely to go well with the mass-market...

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857497)

And besides HTTP, what do you see it needing? What can't be done with HTTP?

What are you babbling about? Come, come, elucidate!

For example, I have security cameras at home. I cannot access them via port 80 due to my ISP, I must access them via a different port that I "port forward". I could still access via the browser, but not the app, I would assume, but the app is nicer than the browser interface. But that's just me, not the person you are talking to...

Intelligentia? Is that you? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857193)

Are you still shilling for your MS overlords?

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

catmistake (814204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857253)

It's true, too. Windows Phone 7 UI is beautiful and even better than iPhone's, not to mention Android. Microsoft really outdid themselves with that.

In the turbid angry seas of opinion, personal choice, and inclination, its always refreshing to finally find some cold hard incontrovertable, academically provable, undeniable truth in a slashdot comment, without all the irrelivant and superfluous mucky muck editorial.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857261)

There's a difference between the UI and the OS.

Even if the WP7 UI is better it doesn't make it a better phone if the underlying OS is still a POS.

We need the stability and features of iOS, the openness of Android and the interface of WP7!

Acronyms are fun!

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857385)

Quality phones?
When are they going to get 720p displays? I upgraded from 800x480 and I would never go back.

Not that windows phone is for me anyway. I am not going to be locked into one market and no real ROM scene since there is no source available.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857475)

Wow all those posts about TechNY / Bonch / Tech** being an utter shill werent jokes. You really are the biggest shill in the world.

How much are they paying you to do this? Have you ever criticized anything MS, or complimented anything Apple or Google? How many sites do you troll, looking for opportunities to drop your poison comments on?

Posting anon so I can mod your comment appropriately.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (0, Flamebait)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857655)

WP7 phones do look very sleek and if you were new to smart phones you'd probably be enthralled by all the fancy graphics and whizzy effects. However if you come from Android land you'd quickly find it superficial. Android allows interactive widgets, folders, shortcuts to apps and users, multiple desktops, interactive wallpapers and all the rest. You can even customize which app you use for browsing, dialling, inputting characters and pretty much anything if you wish. It does all this from a simple attractive user interface.

Windows Phone is a pale imitation by comparison. You get tiles, some which show non-interactive information and you can rearrange them in a vertical list. Oh and set your screensaver wallpaper. Otherwise what you get is what you're given with little other customization possible.

It's pretty weak and reflects the OS as a whole. It's probably fine if you don't know any better but if you do then the flaws become apparent very quickly.

Re:Windows Phone 7 (1)

MrHanky (141717) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857669)

I have to laugh at the fanboys who modded this down.

Good thing its a Microosft.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857067)

...because if it was a Microsoft phone this would look bad.

Re:Good thing its a Microosft.. (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857095)

Maybe thats the gray market Chinese import version.

Re:Good thing its a Microosft.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857121)

Leave it to some Chinese hacker to make the prettiest interface!

Go Microosft, Go!

Microosft's (0)

ryanmc1 (682957) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857079)

"Microosft's"
Proofread much?

Online argument? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857089)

"Both pieces have kicked off the kind of online argument you would expect"... I expect the kind that has all the /. trolls and shills locked in I-wish-it-was-mortal combat for the next, say 12 hours.

Too bad they both suck, Maemo 4evah!!

/me's work here is done...

Who is this Wozniak guy? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857119)

Probably some Anti-Apple shill.

And.....? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857127)

So what if Woz praised something a competitor produced? He's entitled to his own opinion, negative or positive, and it says nothing about the state of Apple. Is Apple going to decline without Jobs? Who know, but Woz having an opinion is hardly a sign one way or the other. The only thing it does is dispell any notion that he's an arrogant prat who couldn't possible even deign to glance at a competitor's product without vomiting.

Maybe this sort of thing gets to me too much, but I'm really fed up of this "you must be 100% for whichever brand-tribe you join!" guff. If he liked bits of another product then so what, that's competition for you.

Re:And.....? (4, Insightful)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857345)

Well, I'm curious to know Woz's opinion on things. Woz may be associated with Apple, but he's a smart geek who's been in computing since the beginning, and he's not a fanboi of any particular technology despite his Apple connections.

Would you have written something similar, or considered it non-newsworthy, if the subject was Dave Haynie, Richard Stallman, Chuck Peddle, or James Gosling?

Re:And.....? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857543)

he's not a fanboi of any particular technology despite his Apple connections.

Which I think is something which appearss to be missing in large chunks of the general population these days (at least, the population who actually care about technology). If you take a glance down the comments sections of many sites it's a perpetual argument-to-the-death for their own personal preference. I even know people who are like that in person when it comes to tech, but why? Why are people so obsessed with insisting that what they have is the absolute best ever and don't you dare disagree with me? At which point did people stop being consumers and start being believers?

Would you have written something similar, or considered it non-newsworthy, if the subject was Dave Haynie, Richard Stallman, Chuck Peddle, or James Gosling?

That depends on the context. Stallman has heavily criticised Apple for their ethics, which is something I'd be interested in hearing about. Would I think it's shocking and newsworthy if Stallman picked up an iPhone and said "You know, I really like the aluminium body they give these things"? No.

If Wozniak thinks the Microsoft phone is beautiful then fine. If someone wants to report "comments from a guy who knows about these things on #upcomingtech" then fine. But trying to tie that in to an article about someone claiming that Apple is in decline as if the two are somehow linked and therefore Steve must be about to jump ship? Come on.

Re:And.....? (3, Insightful)

JustSomeProgrammer (1881750) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857629)

I honestly can't imagine Richard Stallman saying anything positive about anything Microsoft produces due to him never giving it a shot because of his personal beliefs of how software should be.

I wonder what kind of phone he actually uses...

Its not surprising that Wozniak stuck to tech (5, Insightful)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857163)

Its not surprising that Wozniak stuck to tech rather than going into management. He gives his honest opinion, saying what he believes to be true. There is no place for this sort of thing in the boardroom.

Re:Its not surprising that Wozniak stuck to tech (1)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857215)

Its a shame he will more than likely be shunned and skinned alive by the Church of Apple, as they have now found their Lucifer, their angel fallen from grace.

Sad, too, he's assumed to be an Apple mouthpiece.. (5, Interesting)

King_TJ (85913) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857359)

Just because Woz originally helped found Apple Computer in the 70's doesn't mean he's a shill for Apple 30 years later, long after having worked as one of their employees, and after the company changed names (simply "Apple" today -- with the "Computer" part purposely deleted).

I really do think the man speaks honestly about technology he uses, no matter which vendor it comes from. He often likes Apple's products, and when he does, he'll tell you so. But the media seems to assume he's "supposed to be saying that" and jumps to conclusions whenever he says something good about a competing product instead.

As a big fan of the iPhone myself, I'd agree with Woz about Windows Phone 7 too. It *does* have a refreshing and attractive-looking UI to it -- something I'm doubly impressed came out of Microsoft, after their LONG standing belief that everything they designed should have a START button in the corner. (Even their embedded systems for such things as vehicle navigation systems still required developers to purposely code the software to completely hide the OS's UI underneath, because nobody wanted a touchscreen in their car or truck to look like it was just another PC running a version of Windows, with icons to double-click.)

Re:Its not surprising that Wozniak stuck to tech (2)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857411)

While MS and the WinPhone proponents will jump all over this, it's not that big of a deal. Woz is a tech geek, his technical abilities are/were top notch. But I've used the UIs he designed/implemented. Frankly, his opinion on a UI doesn't carry much weight.

He has also praised things about Android in the past.

What does all that mean? Simply that the iPhone doesn't get every detail "perfect", other phones do some things better.

But rather than take my word for it, here are Woz' words (from TFA):

“The iPhone has a lot of beauty and simplicity, and you don’t get lost as much in it, but it is more awkward to use (than Windows Phone 7.5 Mango).
...
“iPhone is my favourite phone. I did give my opinion that the Windows Phone had superior visual appearance and operation cues that were also more attractive. In my opinion, it sets the mark for user interface. I would recommend it over my Android phones, given that it doesn’t yet have the breadth of apps,...”

Monumental failure. (5, Interesting)

GauteL (29207) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857183)

The UI may be great and the development environment good, but Microsoft, in a misguided attempt to lock developers to the platform (that only works when you have them to begin with), made it impossible to use c++ and OpenGL on them meaning every part of an Android or iOS game/app has to be rewritten to work on Windows Phone 7.

When you make it too hard, developers will stick with the platforms where the customers are; Android and iOS

Re:Monumental failure. (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857235)

Except Microsoft will eventually have tons of developers on the platform, unless you are suggesting that no one is going to pick up development for Windows 8. Once you start making Windows 8 desktop apps, they should be easy to convert to Windows 8 mobile apps.

Re:Monumental failure. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857351)

I sure hope the apps won't be too easy to port. Keyboard and mouse interface do not translate well to touch. Nor does many open windows translate well to only one window open at full screen like on a phone.

These two environments are so different that trying to move applications over without at least replacing the entire user interface will only end in pain.

Re:Monumental failure. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857533)

Nor does many open windows translate well to only one window open at full screen like on a phone.

These two environments are so different that trying to move applications over without at least replacing the entire user interface will only end in pain.

Look, it's okay not to care about Windows 8 at all, but if you're ignorant, don't go saying things like this.

Re:Monumental failure. (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857615)

Windows 8 will allow multiple open tiles, I thought. You can even run explorer in one then run apps for it in that. Is this not how most current applications will be supported on windows 8?

One application open at a time is not how most people use computers, and for good reason.

Re:Monumental failure. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857329)

There are developers compiling their C++ to dlls and writing an interface layer in Silverlight. In addition, this [liveside.net] .

Re:Monumental failure. (2, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857441)

made it impossible to use c++ and OpenGL on them meaning every part of an Android or iOS game/app has to be rewritten to work on Windows Phone 7

You meant "Java" and "Objective C", right? Because regular apps aren't programmed in C++ on either iOS or Android (although I believe the former supports it for regular apps, it's just most are Objective C anyway given the OPENSTEP API); yes, games on Android usually require a stub written in C++, but again, it's not the recommended way to write an app except for extreme circumstances.

Also, I must admit to genuine confusion (I'm not saying you're wrong here, I'm asking...): If WP7 is .NET based, can't you use a C++ compiler that compiles to the CLR? Or have they prevented that in some way?

In the end, I have to say I don't see what you're saying is a problem. I rather like the fact that Apple, Google, and Microsoft are doing their own thing. It's been a long time since we saw major tech companies implementing different visions of how computers should be - to me, personal computing died with the bankruptcy of Commodore, and we're finally, FINALLY, seeing a break in the idea that all platforms should be the same.

Not a Good Judge of the Market (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857191)

(Posting AC because I'm at work and I don't log in from work)

I love Woz as much as the next geek (and I'm an Apple geek so I love him even more) but he is not a good judge of the market's desires. That's what made the Woz/Jobs partnership so successful. Woz was the hardware geek who loved to tinker with the guts of a machine and play with it and Jobs was the marketing genius who knew how to direct that passion into making a highly marketable product. Woz is brilliant but he likes to get to the guts of a machine. That is about as far from what "the market" wants as possible.

I'm not saying he's wrong - I haven't played with a WP7 phone at all so I have no personal experience with one - but I think people need to remember who's making the comments and what his passion is.

Buyer beware! (5, Informative)

MCSEBear (907831) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857203)

Since multiple industry journalists have stepped forward saying that current Windows Phones will not be eligible to receive an upgrade to Win Phone 8, it's difficult to think of current models as more than a scam.

The one Windows Phone evangelist who claimed the current devices would be upgradable, quickly walked those statements back.

Microsoft developer evangelist Nuno Silva apparently confused applications with devices when he claimed that users of Windows Phone 7 (aka Mango) would be able to upgrade to Windows Phone 8 (aka Apollo).

Offering a mea culpa on his blog today, Silva said he was trying to echo Microsoft's own statements that existing Windows Phone apps would run under Apollo. But for some reason he gave the impression that current devices themselves would also be able to run the next version of Windows Phone.

"I mistakenly confused app compatibility with phone updateability, which caused the rumors we saw yesterday," Silva wrote. "I did not intend to give the impression I was offering new guidance on any products under development or their upgradeability."

The developer aroused hopes among the Windows Phone faithful by leading them to believe that Mango devices would be eligible to receive the Apollo upgrade. But various sources have been insisting for a while that there is no upgrade path.

Source here [cnet.com] .

If you buy one of these "beta test" phones, you will soon be stuck in a multi-year contract with a device that will not be upgradable to the current version of the OS. There is nothing beautiful about that. Do not buy before Win Phone 8 is released!

Re:Buyer beware! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857275)

Yeah because Microsoft paid for WP8 phones to be manufactured before they started the project and every developer working on them, or software to go on them, is using a secret pre-release phone and not one person has ever mentioned online.

Or, maybe, just maybe, WP8 runs fine on WP7 phones. I'm sure its one of the two.

Re:Buyer beware! (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857311)

Or maybe they just use an virtual machine like everyone does these days?

Re:Buyer beware! (2)

WolfgangPG (827468) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857337)

He back tracked on his comments, but didn't say it wasn't happening. Microsoft has already demoed Windows 7 running on hardware weaker than current WP7 hardware and demoed full Windows 8 running on WP7 hardware in 2011. I believe all current WP7 phones will get upgraded to WP8. They will probably lack features like iPhone 4 doesn't have all the iOS features than iPhone 4s does, but iPhone 4 does run iOS 5.

Microsoft had Windows 7 running on a phone weaker than all current WP7 devices in prior to 2010. http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/microsoft_had_windows_7_running_arm_two_years_ago [maximumpc.com]

Full Windows 8 OS running on a 1.2 GHz, single core Qualcomm chip at Computex 2011, all of the way back in June 2011.
http://www.windows8release.com/2011/06/qualcomm-ti-announce-arm-chips-which-supports-windows-8/ [windows8release.com]

Re:Buyer beware! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857517)

Being that WP7 only really runs on one chipset, i'd wager large sums WP8 will support every single phone. I would be extremely supprised if Microsoft hadn't got airtight contracts on all OEM's, meaning all the manufacturers will make their hardware work with WP8.

The telco's on the other hand, have always had Microsoft by the gentlemans parts, and call the shots. I'd wager Microsoft are having to beg and bribe all the telco's to allow WP8 upgrades, and to approve them in a reasonably timely fashion. Which is why Microsoft can't announce 100% upgradability.

Telco's hate Apple for the power they have over them, yet i'd bet there are very few consumers, who like the telco's having the power.

Re:Buyer beware! (1)

MCSEBear (907831) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857561)

As a reminder, this is the same thing Microsoft did when they refused to provide upgrades to Win Phone 7 from devices that ran Windows Mobile 6.5. Even for devices which had the same basic specs at the Win Phone 7 devices.

Owners of HTC’s highly-praised HD2 touchscreen smartphone will be unable to upgrade the device to Microsoft’s new Windows Phone 7 software when the OS is released towards the end of the year. Despite the HD2 meeting many of the criteria laid down in Microsoft’s ‘Chassis 1’ spec – including a 1GHz Qualcomm processor, high-res capacitive touch display, 5 megapixel camera and 3.5mm headphone jack – the phone will be ruled out for the simple reason that it has five buttons instead of the three mandated for all Windows Phone 7 devices.

Source. [apcmag.com]

Here are links to some of the sources saying the same thing is going to happen to current Win Phone 7 device owners:

The Verge [theverge.com]

Mary Jo Foley [zdnet.com]

Ars Technica [arstechnica.com]

no surprise (4, Insightful)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857229)

Wozniak is a nerd's nerd. He isn't the general public, and what woz thinks is awesome is not likely to be what Joe average wants to use. That is not meant to be an insult by the way, the man is a genius. But he's a technical genius and not a genius with regards to what people want (that was Jobs).

I'd say that getting a glowing review by wozniak is just as likely to be the kiss of death as it is to be the harbinger of iphone doom...

Call me a grump... (2)

mlts (1038732) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857241)

When MS bought out the Chevron utility and built it as an option, it made the platform attractive -- no worrying about rooting or jailbreaking. A recent XDA article showed that that functionality is going away soon.

I wish it weren't the case, but I am tired of locked down platforms, and find Android the one that sucks the least. For example, if I want to block calls/texts with iOS [1], i'm forced to jailbreak. At least with Android, I can use Mr. Number or a root-level blacklist and be done with it.

What would be ideal would be a system similar to the one used for unlocking Nexus phone bootloaders -- an obstacle that will make Joe Sixpack go "hmm, maybe I shouldn't do this", but for someone who knows their stuff, would be trivial. That way, people who don't know what they are doing are protected by the phone's security and the gatekeeper at the app store, while people who are more interested in customization can do what they want.

[1]: Yes, there are apps that supposedly do blocking, but a lot of them do nothing except create a new contact entry with [Blocked] in it.

Since 1984... (5, Insightful)

sycodon (149926) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857247)

George Colony who blogged that Apple would decline in the post-Jobs era.

Since day one of the Macintosh, or you might say day one of the IBM PC, people have been predicting the demise of Apple. With every new model and every new OS, legions of entrenched industry analysts stood up and said with certainty..."whoa, this may be the end of Apple".

I guess if they just keep saying that, one day it will be true and they can pat themselves on the back for being so prescient.

it's been little more than a decade (1)

Thud457 (234763) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857321)

people seem to have forgotten the old days, which may well be back now that Jobs is gone -- " Apple computer, proudly going out of business since 1977 "

Re:Since 1984... (3, Insightful)

tgd (2822) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857391)

George Colony who blogged that Apple would decline in the post-Jobs era.

Since day one of the Macintosh, or you might say day one of the IBM PC, people have been predicting the demise of Apple. With every new model and every new OS, legions of entrenched industry analysts stood up and said with certainty..."whoa, this may be the end of Apple".

I guess if they just keep saying that, one day it will be true and they can pat themselves on the back for being so prescient.

Well, to be fair, the first post-Jobs era at Apple did almost sink the company. Microsoft, ironically enough, is a big part of the reason Apple made it out of the mid 90's in business. And if you talk to their shareholders now, most of them will tell you that, while the post-Jobs era now has been good from a stock value and revenue standpoint, its been pretty damn concerning from a mid-term to long-term innovation and investment standpoint. Look at the pace of "real" innovation that was happening at Apple for the ten years before Jobs' departure, and look at the pace now. That should have people worried. "Innovation" now is "hype up the technology developed by a company we're suing (Samsung's high-resolution panel)" and "we're in 150 markets". Software innovation is dried up -- they're rolling out largely features that came from Android and WP7, implemented in the jailbroken community, and absorbed much later by Apple.

Apple and MS have swapped roles now -- Apple is coasting on customer hype and its near monopoly, and Microsoft is the nimble innovator. And as someone who has a lot of stock in both, I have this lingering sense of dread that both companies are going to somehow screw this up.

Re:Since 1984... (3, Informative)

Uberbah (647458) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857591)

Microsoft, ironically enough, is a big part of the reason Apple made it out of the mid 90's in business.

Microsoft's role is somewhat overblown. The 150 million from MS was to settle a lawsuit and represented 7.5% of Apple's cash reserves at the time.

Upgrade path to WP8? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857265)

I understand that none of the current phones can be upgraded to WP8 when it is released.

If this is true then what is the point of anyone buying any of the current phones at the moment?

If Microsoft were really, really serious about phones then they wouldn't restrict their hardware like they seem to want to do.

Even Apple with its Walled Garden upgrade two year old phones to the latest version of IOS.

How can anyone like metro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857293)

One word "Ugly".

Color scheme is right out of Hot Dog On a Stick. Icons look like my 3 year old drew them. If that is what is facing me every time I use my phone I think I'd be sick.

Granted Apple's icons are more polished, but the usability of iOS leaves much to be desired, they really need to redesign the flow and usability. Same with Android.

I'm not sure anyone is doing it right so far. HP WebOS was starting to look and feel promising, but we all know how that worked out.

Oh well, I'll just deal with these cruddy UI's until these companies actually do some usability studies before releasing garbage.

Re:How can anyone like metro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857501)

Indeed. The WP app launcher is just a plain list of icons. Ok, you can't do much with an app launcher, but "beautiful"? Really? The Woz should have tried an N9 if he wanted to see what an actual innovative phone looks like.

And you people decided to stir (0, Troll)

Ranger (1783) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857303)

the shit by posting this article. What are you a sophomore high school tabloid? Why, yes. As a matter of fact you are.

Out of sincerety? I think not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857343)

What's left unsaid is often as important as that which was uttered aloud. Windows Phone being the most beatiful, and iOS having the most apps leaves Android not being special in any significant way, which I think Woz was aiming at, all along.

I still think Harmattan is the fairest of them all.

That's one of the things I like about Woz (4, Insightful)

Lucas123 (935744) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857381)

He's not an Apple fanboy. He just likes good technology regardless of who makes it.

--
The mill's closed. There's no more work. We're destitute. I've got no option but to sell you all for scientific experiments.

Quality is irrelevant (3, Interesting)

captain_sweatpants (1997280) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857457)

It really doesn't matter how good (or not) Windows phone are:

1. The intersection of MS fanboys and people with widespread credibility is exactly 0.
2. Nobody (apart from MS employees and shareholders) wants it to succeed. - Most people who care about tech gear want MS products to fail so the company will die and be replaced by several other, better companies.
3. We all want competition, good products, and good value, but nobody associates any of those things with microsoft. We all reasonably expect competitors products to be at least as good and better value.
4. We'll happily take an apple/google duopoly over another MS monopoly anyday.

So unless the phones are both outstanding compared to the competition, and much better value, nobody is going to care about them. This seems unlikely.

If MS wants people to care about it's brands and products, it needs to split itself up into it's various divisions. Smaller, independent businesses would be forced to compete and innovate instead of relying on marketing and monopoly to ensure success. If WP7 became a genuine underdog, it might actually get some credible supporters. But since this won't ever happen, it will simply die a long, painful and expensive death. So props to MS on the strategy so far.

Just wait. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39857477)

Until people start getting a BSOD while calling 911.

Hologram (1)

arunce (1934350) | more than 2 years ago | (#39857597)

In 48 months there will be a Steve Jobs hologram.

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