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German Court Grants Motorola Xbox and Windows 7 Sales Ban

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the google-subsidiaries-may-do-infinte-evil dept.

Microsoft 163

First time accepted submitter Celexi writes "In a surprising move, Motorola Mobility (which is to be taken over by Google), has won an injunction preventing the distribution of Windows 7 and the Xbox in Germany until Microsoft starts paying royalty fees for the patents Microsoft is said to be infringing (two patents used to display H.264 video). The ruling is suspended as of now because of a restraining order, the effect in the rest of the EU and U.S. if the ban is enforced if the restraining order is lifted, is unclear." This could go into effect as soon as May 7th, pending the result of the next U.S. case hearing.

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Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (2, Interesting)

indiegamer (2630493) | more than 2 years ago | (#39867967)

In a surprising move, Motorola Mobility (which is to be taken over by Google), has won an injunction preventing the distribution of Windows 7 and the Xbox in Germany until Microsoft starts paying royalty fees for the patents

They are unhappy that Microsoft is, legally and reasonably, getting almost 1 billion an year from various other Android manufacturers because they are using Microsoft licensed technology. After Google acquired Motorola I've been sure and waiting for them to try to hit back at Microsoft and Apple. Motorola is good for Google because it acts as both proxy in patent wars (so that Google name itself doesn't get the damage) and because then Google can control the whole Android infrastructure from the OS to devices.

It is no wonder that other Android vendors have been worried about Google's plans. At least Microsoft strictly provides the OS for manufacturers to use. Google has its own hardware manufacturer too. If I ran a smart phone making company I would never use Android as Google just can't be trusted. At least use MeeGo or something similar open, or license WP7 from Microsoft. You can also always create your own OS.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868077)

legally and reasonably

Legally maybe, but reasonably?

Microsoft licensed technology

Were you cheering for them as they trolled companies using Linux and demanded they pay for "Linux licenses?"

At least use MeeGo or something similar open

And if you were even remotely successful Microsoft would still threaten you. Patents are just one of Microsoft's weapons to wield against competitors.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868157)

This was dumb, assuming Google bought this patent from Motorolla as MS has a huge patent portfolio. Samsung is fine and wont be assholes to you unless you pull an Apple and try to ban its products. Then it got really nasty.

MS has not threatened Google and its patent fees from Andriod makers are only .02% according to Ars Technica. They have no intention of starting a war. But Google will soon see Redmond firing its guns claiming IP over exchange synch ability, and many other IP and copyrighted standards. Billions lost in defending itself will come next. It is in both companies best interests not to go sue crazy. It is the same thing I did with my exwife when I could have got a lawyer, but so would she and then shit would hit the fans for both of us and both of us would loose.

May God help us if Oracle wins the case and ruling syntax in a clean room implementation is the same as copyright infringement. Simple using something like socket() would be owned by someone else and this would give MS a lot of leverage for any phone but Windows that tries to talk to Exchange or use Javascript (MS bought rights to Javascript from AOL who bought Netscape).

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

dehole (1577363) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868441)

Google's implementation of the Android API's are not a clean room implementation, they actually referenced JAVA's API's while creating it. But if API's are copyrightable... then we have problems.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

RaceProUK (1137575) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869093)

Clean-room in this case means without using any code from Oracle's Java implementation.

It's a bit like how Mono relates to .NET - the surface looks the same, but that's where the similarity/sharing ends.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (4, Informative)

JimCanuck (2474366) | more than 2 years ago | (#39870093)


Clean room software engineering is supposed to be only knowing the inputs and outputs of the piece of software your trying to implement, without any inside knowledge of the source code.

This is how companies like Award, Phoenix and Compaq got away with cloning the IBM BIOS on the original IBM PC's as they used programmers and engineers who had never seen a copy of the code itself, and instead only provided them with "Input Command X results in Y if condition Z is met" type of documentation.

Reading the code and then rewriting it to do the exact same thing has been a violation of software copyrights since the 1980's when many companies tried to do that to the IBM BIOS, the legality of doing what your implying in court cases has already been shown to be illegal for the last 3 decades or so.

patent proxy wars vs divorse wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39870035)

It is in both companies best interests not to go sue crazy. It is the same thing I did with my exwife when I could have got a lawyer, but so would she and then shit would hit the fans for both of us and both of us would loose.

Yes, but you and your wife acted in your own best interests, corporations don't. Remember, such issues must go to "legal" who has a vested interest in empire building and increasing their importance. Had you consulted a lawyer to ask if you should get a lawyer, what do you think his answer would be?

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0, Troll)

indiegamer (2630493) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868223)

legally and reasonably

Yes. Microsoft is spending billions an year for Microsoft Research. It's the largest R&D center on planet, and they have made some remarkable things. Note that this isn't only about software patents, it's also hardware and true technical research. On the other hand, Google has never really done any R&D of their own. Their only own services are search engine and their advertising platform. Everything else is bought in, including youtube, google maps, gmail and so on. Hell, just recently Google banned one of their employees from publishing research on social networking on internet [thinkoutsidein.com] , even after initially approving it (and why he wrote it in the first place). He left and went to work for Facebook instead. But he still is not allowed to publish that research paper.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (-1, Offtopic)

Jeng (926980) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868519)

You are either delusional or a shill.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (-1, Offtopic)

gparent (1242548) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868681)

Look at his posting history, he looks hired by Microsoft.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868747)

Look at SLASHDOT's history.

Looks like it's owned by a company with financial ties to Linux. Thus, Slashdot as a whole can't be trusted.

I mean, who would take serious a website that posts images of the world's biggest philanthropist as some sort of evil Borg?

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869327)

Works for me!

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869879)

Look at SLASHDOT's history.

Looks like it's owned by a company with financial ties to Linux. Thus, Slashdot as a whole can't be trusted.

I mean, who would take serious a website that posts images of the world's biggest philanthropist as some sort of evil Borg?

The Borg aren't evil, they just want to assimilate everyone else.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Jeng (926980) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868803)

For that account, if you look back at any google story he posts the very first post, before anyone else is able to even comment, but he uses a different account each time, sometimes with names that have to do with the issue in question.

He used to post under his own account, but I can't remember it offhand.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869105)

Yeah I didn't bother looking if he was the same guy, but if it's that Techsomething retard I get who you mean. Mods seemed to do the job..

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (2)

O('_')O_Bush (1162487) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868991)

In what world do you live in that publishing proprietary information on the internet doesn't get you fired? Google isn't in the habit of firing employees on a whim, so while might have thought he had approval, he clearly didn't from the people that mattered.

As for M$'s "research", most of it involes solving problems they created, or trying to clone Google's technologies. This is largely why you don't see any innovation coming out of their R&D, just Microsoft branded rehashes of existing and better things.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

Paradigma11 (645246) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869109)

In what world do you live in that publishing proprietary information on the internet doesn't get you fired? Google isn't in the habit of firing employees on a whim, so while might have thought he had approval, he clearly didn't from the people that mattered.

As for M$'s "research", most of it involes solving problems they created, or trying to clone Google's technologies. This is largely why you don't see any innovation coming out of their R&D, just Microsoft branded rehashes of existing and better things.

You got to be kidding me: http://research.microsoft.com/apps/dp/areas.aspx [microsoft.com]

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869667)

So? IT's a list of things. What has come to fruition? Yes, RnD is RnD and much of it won't come to fruition. But when you spend twice as much as the next guy, but hardly release anything new you go to kind of wonder what's going on there? I suspect the person in charge of RnD doesn't know how to run RnD.

How many robotic cars has MS on the road? There portable media device was how successful? The Gaming console has what level of errors? Their table was how successful?

With the money MS is putting into RnD they should be changing the world, instead they are running around like a bunch of clowns' Which is a shame.
There was a time I wanted to do RnD for MS, but the people I met, and the culture regarding RnD is not one striving for success.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869547)

"and they have made some remarkable things. "
such as...?

"Google has never really done any R&D of their own. "
Lie.
MS spends about 13% of it's revenue in RnD, Google about 12.5 % 8 billion and 3 billion.
Google also has a ton more to show for it.

"Everything else is bought in"
That's you argument for MS? Word, excel, Dos, Access, and most of their software was originally brought in.
That's a stupid complaint.

I lie how it went from book to research paper?
Paul Adams is a hypocrite, and a guy who gto famous talking about what everyone else was talking about at the time.
So I wouldn't be too quick to jump on just one side of of the issue if I where you.

I need a guide (1)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868509)

SO many of these patent claims seem to be the same ones. Didn't motorola just get slapped down for trying to impose restrictions on FRAND granted H264 patents in some other case? it's all so confusing. I need a chart.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869211)

Worth noting that Google had nothing to do with this, Motorola was in this legal dispute long before they were acquired.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868091)

You can also always create your own OS.

You'd certainly save money that way by not needing to create and app store or even publish an API due to zero demand.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868093)

Are you pot high? Microsoft installed their own man as nokia's ceo and now nokia is microsoft's mobile hardware arm.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868219)

are you pot high?

executives move to different companies all the time. so if i work for MS i'm not allowed to change jobs? Did novell install their man in google to make google novell's software arm? Did compaq install tim cook at apple to help them?

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868583)

In this case, though, it's not that an MS employee left MS and found a new job elsewhere. He pretty much packed up his desk at MS one Friday and unpacked it at Nokia the following Monday. Nokia is now Microsoft's bitch, that's the complete reason why Nokia ran to embrace WP7 long before anyone had even seen it running. If you insist otherwise, you're the one who needs to look around.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869691)

True, but you need to ,look at what happened. IN this case it's pretty obvious. He completely changed nokia direction to favor MS, and it outrages a lot of people.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (2, Informative)

poetmatt (793785) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868147)

Wow, you really don't put much effort into the pro-MS/anti google posting, huh? Couldn't even hold until the 9th word, doing the first post on the article, *and* couldn't hint about being pro-microsoft about 4 times, right?

using a patent shakedown for extortion with manufacturers is legal and reasonable? Getting a billion a year though would certainly be in the realm of antitrust concerns though. Why do you think MS just settled with B&N for more than B&N was worth? Hint: it wasn't to work with them, and had everything to do with getting B&N to drop the case when they had MS by the balls.

Android vendors were worried google would give preference to Motorola, not "google's plans". As of so far, google is simply carrying on doing what it does day to day and not giving Motorola priority. Had they given Motorola priority you'd hear of every manufacturer aside from Motorola jumping ship faster than you could post an article about it.

I would never use MeeGo or WP7. MeeGo is just not developed enough and WP7 is from a company that violates antitrust on a daily basis (and has been convicted). Why would anyone consider either of those?

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868527)

They really didn't have Microsoft by the balls in that case as they lost all of their initial claims and the antitrust case was pretty much dropped. I think Microsoft just wanted it to go away and they ended up finding someone who would be fine with shipping Microsoft products. B&N never cared about Android, they just wanted so sell devices and compete with Amazon in e-books, and Microsoft just wants someone to sell their software so that they can still feel relevant.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869187)

I would never use MeeGo or WP7. MeeGo is just not developed enough and WP7 is from a company that violates antitrust on a daily basis (and has been convicted). Why would anyone consider either of those?

Because they don't care about the shiny more than about having principles. Isn't that obvious enough?

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869495)

Why would anyone consider either of those?
 
Friggin A, man! Why would anyone use a product from a company that violates antitrust? But I'll wink at the concept of using products made in China where a recent critic of the state's wife was threatened with being beaten to death if the critic didn't return to face his punishment by the Peoples Republic of Corruption.
 
I love how people keep stuff in perspective around here. If being a violator of anti-trust is enough to get you to boycott than having the spouse of someone who was daring enough to (gasp!) open his mouth about the state should surely bring about a boycott in your mind. If you're going to act like you're taking the high road here I suggest that you start by boycotting China and that machine in front of you. Have a nice day.

They will never give Motorola priority (1)

DrYak (748999) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869953)

Android vendors were worried google would give preference to Motorola, not "google's plans". As of so far, google is simply carrying on doing what it does day to day and not giving Motorola priority.

Google will very likely never give preference to Motorola, not because they are pure hearted and follow their "Do no evil" motto, but more because this isn't their primarry market.

Google at its core is a *search company*. A company whose skill is matching keywords to the best suited results, and it monetises these skills by turning them the other way around: by bringing the most relevant and likely to be useful ad to the users. They profit from ads.

Anything else they develop is ancillary, and from a financial point of view, only makes sense as a way to bring ads to more end-users. That's why they don't have any problems financing a 3rd party browser (Mozilla Firefox) even being their top source of financing, while exactly at the same time they develop their own browser (Chrome/Chromium). There's no conflict of interests in there, as their interests aren't in selling browsers (or bundling them with other software they sell). They just need as many users as possible surfing to google's online services and thus exposed to google's ads. As long as said users are provided with modern browsers following up to date web standards, it's okay for google, no matter who wrote said browser.

Same with handsets. They are not in the market of selling phone embed OS, the OS it self is available as open source, even under a permissive license (although they can marginally earn some money through the license they sell for bundling their closed source applications). They are not in the market of selling actual handsets neither (although they could get some margins once they finish acquiring motorola). What they need it to have people buying apps from the android marketplace, and people surfing to their on-line services. That's where they will be getting their money from. If the phone was made by them or not is irrelevant.

The only advantage of making their own OS is that they are sure to have a nice platform with a nice up-to-date browser to get the users to google's source of revenue. The only advantage of having their own manufacturer, is that they can release "perfect handsets", hardware that is optimised to make most of the available OS and vice verse (unlike some of the cheap chinese cloners who basically slapped the opensoruce edition on some dead cheap underpowered piece of crap).

But they don't have any argument to disadvantage concurrent handset makers. Making other hardware manufacturer "second class citizens" would divert revenue from google.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868225)

If it's "reasonable" for MS to extort money using patents (at a cost higher then what they sell their entire os), how is it not reasonable for Motoralla to do the same to MS? Logic fail? Also, Google does NOT own Motorola yet.

Also, Android (while spearheaded by Google) consists of a large group of companies. What Google sells is not android but the platform on top of it (Google apps integration). They can all EASILY fork Android if they feel uncomfortable with Google. That said, phone manufacturers are hardware companies, not software. The thing is, most cell phone hardware are pretty much the same more or less and most users take much more notice of the software. They need something like Android in order to compete so it's not like they will abandon Android rather then rolling out their own. Using something like MeeGo lack the marketing already in place (meaning spending an insane amount to match it) while having a great risk. The same goes for windows currently though that may change if MS steps up the game. That said, there is no risk to using Android(other then MS patent trolling) while having a mature platform that lets them compete *NOW* rather then the uncertain future.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1, Insightful)

awrowe (1110817) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868263)

Oh yeah, cos Microsoft can be trusted, they have proved that repeatedly over the years.

Good ole trustworthy Microsoft

I'm neither a Google fanboy or a Microsoft shill. I like Google as a company and I enjoy a lot of their products and I use a lot of Microsoft products as well. The only thing these companies can be trusted to do is look after their bottom line. Any other community based action they take is a plus and has an expected life span of about a millisecond. You could turn around and find it gone with no explanation or comeback whatsoever.

As far as Android goes, I would choose it over iOS and WP7 in a heartbeat, simply because I like the platform. I am currently waiting for Windows 8 to come out so I can plant it on my Acer W501 tablet, where I think it will excel. Kinda wish I got the A500 though, cos it looks a better platform again.

Don't talk about trust when it comes to companies. The word is almost meaninless when applied to them.

Hello Mr. Troll (3, Funny)

Jeng (926980) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868269)

Ok, so you submit stories under one name, create a new account, and then post the very second the article is submitted.

We get it, you have an agenda you want to promote, but you don't want to do it under your own account because it is already known you are just a shill and this makes it harder to ignore you.

I just have one request, fuck off.

Slashdot Editors, if you continue to be apparently complicit in helping him push his agenda then people will quit having discussions on this site. It will badly damage /.'s reputation and in the end your bottom line.

Re:Hello Mr. Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868791)

It will badly damage /.'s reputation and in the end your bottom line.

You should try threatening to leave - that would be much more effective.

Re:Hello Mr. Troll (0)

Jeng (926980) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868857)

ROFL, yea, that is very effective.

The AC's dramatically declaring that they are leaving are probably the funniest.

The thing is, if this continues, it's not about me leaving, it's about this site becoming irrelevant if they continue to support shills.

This site is only as good as it's community and the community hates this asshole. It's part of why he no longer posts using is main account.

Re:Hello Mr. Troll (-1, Troll)

Rockmelody (2630517) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869113)

The community, who is all about support free speech and open discussion, hates me for my truthful opinions because it's against Google? Do you understand how ironic that is?

I understand that you want to have your little circlejerk where only anti-MS and pro-Google/FOSS comments are allowed, but I hope you would even understand how stupid your reasoning for it. The instant someone posts anything that is good about Microsoft or that is bad about Google he gets modded down. Seriously, look at this story or any other. The moment I realized this I can't just take you basement jerkers seriously. YOU are the ones destroying intelligent discussion on this site, with your ENDLESS HATE towards any opinion that doesn't align with yours. Is it so big surprise that John Carmack and other old schoolers don't post here anymore? You FOSS fanatics destroyed it yourself.

Reddit has been much better for years already, anyway.

Re:Hello Mr. Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869189)

You're the reason I'm bailing this fucking joint!

Fuck! I hate slashdot any more. Everyone bitching and bitching and bitching about this and that. And then someone calls someone for being a troll, and if said troll is pro-(MS/Apple/Google/anything really) while anti-(insert competition), then assholes like you come in and bitch about the person calling troll on them.

Fuck this. Goodbye slashdot. Goodbye all of you stupid shits. I'M NEVER COMING HERE AGAIN!!!!!

Re:Hello Mr. Troll (0)

Jeng (926980) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869195)

I don't give a shit about the position, it's the tactic that pisses me off.

Re:Hello Mr. Troll (1)

Rockmelody (2630517) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869285)

So would you rather have tons of "first post!1!" messages as first, or intelligent, reasonable and investigated messages as first posts? Because I would rather read the later ones, those including from Tech* guy.

Re:Hello Mr. Troll (0)

Jeng (926980) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869391)

If it wasn't full of shit it would be a great first post.

Posting obviously biased bullshit does not counter obviously biased bullshit, it just makes more of it that we have to filter to find the nuggets of wisdom.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (2)

norteo (779244) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868301)

As a software developer, I say, so far, "Reasonably" and "microsoft" have never really made sense in the same sentence. Microsoft is dieing on his own poison. Microsoft may not have its own hardware manufacturer but has control over many. why does everything come installed with windows? I would say the ones creating their own OS are Microsoft. Windows is the different one. And it is a design choice. Prety much everything else si some form of unix derivative. That includes Apple OSX. I do not think It is "reasonable" to say that at any point microsoft is more open than google.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868321)

You look a lot like a shill right now, brand new user with two wildly pro-MS comments.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1, Interesting)

nschubach (922175) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868423)

Maybe Slashdot needs to make an update to the posting algorithm:
You may not respond directly to a story unless your karma is excellent. You can respond to other posts, but never to a story.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869411)

So then we get shills posting off-topic replies to the first post. It doesn't really solve much.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (0)

nschubach (922175) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869887)

Eh, it does sort of solve the anonymous first posters and these shill accounts. They can be modded off-topic pretty easily and the experienced users would have a way to steer the conversations a bit more than relying on the first troll.

Re:Google has lowered itself to patent proxy wars (1)

JamesTKirk (876319) | more than 2 years ago | (#39870111)

You can also always create your own OS.

Apparently, you can't, since you will be sued to death by either Microsoft or Oracle. It looks like every feature needed for a useful OS is already patented by someone else.

Litigate rather than Innovate (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868033)

Nice to see Apple yet again resorting to the courts to... What's that? It's not Apple using the courts to stifle competition? It's sweet-and-dear Motorola/Google? Oh... Awkward...

Re:Litigate rather than Innovate (3, Informative)

Galestar (1473827) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868111)

It's awkward that they are fighting back? Do you have any idea why Google started purchasing Motorola in the first place? So they can counter strike against MS and Apple. I for one cheer them on - maybe now that MS and Apple are under attack maybe they can come to some sort of compromise, get out of the courts and get back to building products.

Re:Litigate rather than Innovate (2, Informative)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869071)

No, it's Motorola. Google hasn't bought Motorola yet, and there's no evidence they're either in favor of Motorola's actions or against them.

I know, you already knew that, I'm correcting you so that people who don't know who paid for your post know it.

Re:Litigate rather than Innovate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869595)

First, if you think that Google isn't involved in the big-picture decisions that Moto is making, even though the purchase hasn't been completed, then you're delusional. You don't commit to a $12 billion purchase without some degree of oversight.

Second, I love how the new method of disagreeing with someone on /. is to claim that the differing opinion was paid for. Here's a secret - I'm paid by nobody to post anything on the internet. Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean my disagreement was bought.

f*** (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868035)

the skull of M$.

Not really. (2, Insightful)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868039)

In a surprising move

I don't see what's so surprising about it.
Google has proven quite a few times as of late it's just as bad as every other company.
So why wouldn't they pull a move often used by every other bad company?

Re:Not really. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868275)

I'm sure if Google(Motorola) unilaterally disarms MS and Apple would retreat from their lawsuits/demand for trivialities from Android phone manufacturers.

I think everyone on Slashdot agrees that the end game should be patent reform. If that's not achievable, detente. But the problem with this foolishness is that the only way to defend your company from it is more foolish lawsuits.

Whaaaaaaa (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868317)

Microsoft gets $15 per Android handset for patents so weak they won't reveal in public. So if Google sticks it to Microsoft the world is a better place and good on them.

To use Microsoft's own phrase "Whaaaaaaaa".

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

Re:Whaaaaaaa (1)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | more than 2 years ago | (#39870061)

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see Microsoft get a taste of their own medicine.
I just fail to see why anything in this news is "surprising"

Re:Not really. (1)

darkmeridian (119044) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868353)

What are you talking about? You do believe in self-defense, right? Microsoft has been running around suing Android manufacturers for patent infringementâ"that's why MS paid $300 million to BN for a share of the Nook business: to settle the lawsuit. Google has to stop Microsoft from hindering the development of Android so why not fight fire with fire?

Re:Not really. (4, Insightful)

jkrise (535370) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868371)

So why wouldn't they pull a move often used by every other bad company?

The bad company here is Microsoft, making billions on Android, an OS which it did zilch to build. So Google is hitting back in self defense. Don't get our panties in a twist, yet.

Re:Not really. (1)

ArhcAngel (247594) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868591)

Microsoft has been threatening to sue hardware OEMs that sell devices loaded with Android despite the fact Google/Linus own the licenses of the software Microsoft is alleging infringe on their IP. If Motorola/Google can get Microsoft into a cross-licensing deal it would indemnify anyone using Android and Microsoft couldn't nickel and dime each and every OEM. I'd say it was to be expected.

What would you do if a bully was scaring and shaking down all of your customers?

Re:Not really. (1)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868883)

I'd kick him out of my store, that doesn't mean I'd go to his store and do the same.

Re:Not really. (2)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869407)

They aren't shaking down MS customers. They had the decency to go directly to MS.

Re:Not really. (1)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869091)

For the love of...

GOOGLE. DOES. NOT. OWN. MOTOROLA. YET.

it even implies it in the summary. WTH?

Re:Not really. (1)

StormReaver (59959) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869383)

So why wouldn't they pull a move often used by every other bad company?

Has everyone on this thread gone brain dead? Microsoft sued Motorola for patent infringement, so Motorola sued back. Microsoft lost, as it should, as it is the company who always chooses to litigate rather than innovate.

Microsoft has no one to blame but themselves.

Re:Not really. (1)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | more than 2 years ago | (#39870091)

I did not understand that it was a counter-suit (so thank you for that), but I never once stated that Microsoft was in the right either.
Seems most comments here misinterpreted my comment as saying such.

For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (5, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868065)

All I have to say is I told you so.

Like Motorolla would be happy letting you download and use a HTML 5 browser for free. Obviously you simply can't.

With this and the potential ruling that merely syntax is copyrightable in the Oracle VS Google case 2 things will happen. Either people will see how rediculious patents and copyright are and change. Or the bribery will continue and no one but big pockets will compete. Hell, MS has big pockets and still are getting nailed. This is getting nuts.

It seems China and India are the only ones not crazy here.

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868345)

God forbid people start using that as an excuse to say that Google was really trying to show that the industry needs to be changed and they were "doing it for the people"

People need to accept Google are just as corrupt as other companies and will use patents to their advantage.

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (1)

Canazza (1428553) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868921)

I don't think it's corruption. Peer pressure perhaps. Escalation of arms certainly. Corruption implies something more sinister than simple incompetence.

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (0)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868361)

I tried playing WebM on my iPod, generic Bestbuy player, radio, CD/MP3 player, and TV.
Didn't work. Didn't work. Didn't work.
Didn't work. Didn't work.

I would no sooner adopt WebM than I would throw-away my VHS VCR and go buy Betamax?!?!? As for this ruling the REAL surprise is that a U.S. judge has the power to overrule and "restrain" a German court's decision. When did Germany become a protectorate of the U.S.? Is this some leftover from the war? (In the same fashion the U.S. forbade Japan to have any army beyond a "defensive force".)

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (1)

Eirenarch (1099517) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868553)

The US judge cannot overturn the German judge decision. He can however fine Motorola in the US if they enforced the ban in Germany. This is exactly what he needed to do to prevent Motorola's strategy of "get products banned in a big market and force them to settle for the whole world despite the fact that we would ultimately lose if they wait it out"

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868675)

I tried playing WebM on my iPod, generic Bestbuy player, radio, CD/MP3 player, and TV.
Didn't work. Didn't work. Didn't work.
Didn't work. Didn't work.

Why, thank you! Your snarky whining does, indeed, go a long way to show the GP's point that big-media and big-money entrenchment is a major part of the problem!

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868911)

I would no sooner adopt WebM than I would throw-away my VHS VCR and go buy Betamax?!?!?

The 80's called - they want their analogy back.

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869457)

I tried playing WebM on my iPod, generic Bestbuy player, radio, CD/MP3 player, and TV.

Most of those devices weren't designed to play html5 video. So, while we can agree that h.264 is more widespread it's not such a big deal if we start using something else for the web.

Re:For all those who bashed webM/Mozilla (2)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869839)

Like Motorolla would be happy letting you download and use a HTML 5 browser for free. Obviously you simply can't.

Well, you can if you use the built-in licensed decoder.

An interesting question is the details - h.264, unlike cellphones, is licensed under a patent pool. That you, you can either do like we have in cellphones and license all the patents one-by-one (have fun!), or decide to license the whole group of them together in one fell swoop. This is done because the MPEG standards group created the MPEG licensing authority (MPEG-LA) that basically has the authority to license the patents used all at once.

Pay that license fee, and you're done. If Motorola's patents are in that patent pool, then Microsoft would already HAVE a license since they're paying for the other h.264 patents anyhow.

So something is not quite adding up here. They're effectively FRAND patents (since anyone can come up to the MPEG-LA, say they want to license to do X with h.264, pay the fee (on the fee schedule) and walk away), so...

As for WebM - it never had a chance. It was announced and standardized only a couple of years ago. Thing is, it takes YEARS for it to make it in hardware. The first GPUs with WebM support would probably hit late 2012-2013, with expected mass shipments by holiday 2013 (i.e., when you and I can buy stuff with it in).

Yes, it takes that long - hell, I was playing with h.264 back in 2003 (when DivX reigned supreme).

So something is not quite right here - if Microsoft paid their h.264 licensing fees, the Motorola patents should automatically be included as part of the deal.

Software patents (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868087)

As funny as this is, It really is just a further argument for why Software patents should be eradicated once and for all.

Re:Software patents (3, Informative)

AwaxSlashdot (600672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868343)

Those are not software patents. WiFi and H.264 are not software.

How ironic, (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868227)

The open source community is highly reluctant to use h264 because they are concerned that Microsoft (Among others, but princibly their historical enemy Microsoft) would do something like that. Now Microsoft is on the receiving end.

So I thought H264 was better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868255)

So I thought H264 was better because you were secure from being sued for patent infringement, unlike WebM?

Nonsense (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868271)

The ruling is suspended as of now because of a restraining order

It would probably be wise for Motorola not to seek enforcement of the injunction, given the US ruling. However that isn't the same as the ruling being suspended.

Doesn't mean jack (4, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868279)

Seriously, ponder for a moment what would happen if Nebraska decided to ban MS products. Well? Right. People from Nebraska wanting MS products will buy them outside Nebraska.

It's not much different for the EU.

Motorola is not Google yet (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868315)

The Motorola / Google deal hasn't closed yet, until it does Google can not control legally Motorola. Let Google take control of the company before you start blaming them. Motorola is struggling tech company with a lot IP so it really shouldn't surprise anyone that it turned to IP litigation just like so many other tech companies on their way out. Until Google takes over this is Motorola hedging in case the merger falls through.

Re:Motorola is not Google yet (1)

AwaxSlashdot (600672) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868369)

However, in the current acquisition process, Motorola can take no action without the explicit consent of Google, especially for legal actions (suing or granting licenses) because those actions would be binding to Google after the acquisition.

Re:Motorola is not Google yet (1)

FreeUser (11483) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868417)

However, in the current acquisition process, Motorola can take no action without the explicit consent of Google, especially for legal actions (suing or granting licenses) because those actions would be binding to Google after the acquisition.

True, but didn't Motorola start this litagion before the merger was agreed? In which case, they wouldn't have needed, or sought, Google's approval.

Re:Motorola is not Google yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868435)

dur herpa derp

oh, if only.... (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868381)

oh, if only there was a patent-free video codec [webmproject.org] available for general use instead of that horrible h.264 system that evil companies like Microsoft want to force other companies like Google to use.

oh, wait... umm. Well, at least this gives Google some ammunition to prove that they should convert all of Youtube to WebM before they get sued by, umm. errm... oh lord, it's so difficult to know which way's up in the world of IT now!

Re:oh, if only.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868769)

WebM is not more patent-free than H.264. I'm sure someone, somewhere, can claim that at least some parts of WebM are patented. Just because Google claims WebM is parent-free doesn't make it so.

Re:oh, if only.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868931)

You're wrong and I will provide as much proof and sources as you: ...

Texas Courts? (0)

thomasw_lrd (1203850) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868387)

Is Germany the Texas courts of Europe? Seems like every other day, one tech item or another is being banned in Germany. Soon, the 3rd Reich will rise again, just so they can play with their tech toys.
I welcome the cleansing of all lawyers from the earth.

Retalliation (5, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868415)

Aren't Motorola acting in self defense? As i understand it, MS has been trying to shake down android handset manufacturers for a while and motorola are one of the few that refused to give in to their demands.

And in the end... (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868905)

Everyone will have prevented everyone else from selling anything.

And we'll all end up living in caves eating rats.

And paying Monsanto for the privilege thanks to the rats having mutated from ingesting Monsanto-proprietary DNA.

Re:Retalliation (1)

Eirenarch (1099517) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869037)

They are but their position is weak (using FRAND patents)

What I want to know is... (3, Interesting)

jonwil (467024) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868483)

how a court ruling in a US court has any bearing on the German legal system and why the German legal system (and whichever authorities are responsible for enforcing the decision by the German judge) has to even care what the US court said and cant just say "screw the US, we are going to enforce the ban starting right now"

Or is there some sort of international treaty that applies here?

Who wins here? (1)

apcullen (2504324) | more than 2 years ago | (#39868829)

I'm thinking that, in the end, nobody really comes out ahead in these tit-for-tat lawsuits.

Re:Who wins here? (1)

theswimmingbird (1746180) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869039)

nobody really comes out ahead in these tit-for-tat lawsuits.

Except for The Pirate Bay.

Re:Who wins here? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39869255)

Gonna download meself an Xbox using a Torrent, yes I am...

Re:Who wins here? (3, Insightful)

rachit (163465) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869353)

Er, the lawyers?

Microsoft double standard for you and them (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868847)

So... I can't torrent a copy of Microsoft Publisher 2010, but they can use someone else's copyrighted/patented technology??

German Court = Kid US Court = Parent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868953)

The ruling itself is not even the craziest about this story.

The CRAZY thing is that some US court has a veto on what a German court can do about things happening in Germany.

What the F??

I wonder what the German Pirate Party has to say about this.

Software patents in Germany? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#39868959)

Microsoft must license MPEG patents in Germany? EU? What about the famous "software is not patentable in EU" thing?

Another example of fine english on /. (1)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869323)

I'd ban the "Motorola Xbox" too! It doesn't sound like a legitimate product to me,........

Obligatory (1)

matthew_t_west (800388) | more than 2 years ago | (#39869375)

"NO MICROSOFT FOR YOU!" -- The Software Nazi

M

PS - I tried all caps, but I got a filter error telling me, "Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING" What if that's what I want to do? Apparently adding this post script took care of my yelling issue.

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