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Dish Network Announces Prime Time TV With No Ads

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the best-skip dept.

Advertising 283

Hugh Pickens writes "Forbes reports that Dish Network has announced a new feature called called Auto Hop for its satellite TV subscribers that will let you automatically skip all commercials for prime time television from the four major broadcast networks — when you watch programs the day after they are first aired. 'Viewers love to skip commercials,' says Vivek Khemka, vice president of DISH Product Management. 'With the Auto Hop capability of the Hopper, watching your favorite shows commercial-free is easier than ever before.' Craig Moffett says it's going to be hard for Dish to maintain good relationships with its programming affiliates when they start offering a feature intended to cut out the bulk of the affiliates' revenues. Whether the auto-skip feature can withstand legal challenge remains to be seen. 'Given the already long list of industry-unfriendly features promoted by Dish, one wonders if Auto Hop will be the final straw that provokes legal action from the broadcast networks,' says Moffett. 'We suspect Auto Hop probably uses some sort of bookmarking insertion based on automated recognition of commercial inserts (called "fingerprinting'"), which if true could certainly be argued to be a manipulation of the content stream by the distributor.'"

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283 comments

I work in the advertising industry (-1, Troll)

SilverDeveloper (2636597) | about 2 years ago | (#39963125)

I work in the advertising industry and it is outrageous how far people can go to abuse others. It isn't free to make all those good tv shows and in my opinion authors should get paid for them. Mostly this is based on advertising on TV. If you don't want advertising, go buy the DVD boxes which don't have them. But have some decency and let people get paid for their hard work. Dish Network is bunch of assholes.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963137)

cry me a river.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (4, Insightful)

SilverDeveloper (2636597) | about 2 years ago | (#39963167)

Slashdot is also almost completely supported by advertising. As many users on this site block them, they have moved to more subtle advertising like paid stories on Ask Slashdot, sponsored polls and their jobs site [slashdot.org] . All you are doing is shooting yourself in the leg. Moves like this will only introduce more subtle advertising, using psychological ways like those 0.1s flashes of products in between and product placement. Is that better then? Now you at least know when you are being advertised something. Then you won't, but your mind will, subliminally.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (3, Insightful)

rev0lt (1950662) | about 2 years ago | (#39963207)

Slashdot is also almost completely supported by advertising.

I really don't care. Sometimes some ads are interesting. Sometimes they aren't. I have the option to turn them off, but I choose not to. I like to see what's out there, because sooner or later - if it is relevant - I will need to have an informed opinion about it. Or just dont't, and have a good motive for that. Because in IT, clients don't like to hear "I've never even heard of it" from their consultants.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963361)

I wouldn't mind the Slashdot ads if they used girls with big boobs in bikinis to get your attention.
It would be fair: the advertiser gets my attention, and I get to see something beautiful.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

Jason Earl (1894) | about 2 years ago | (#39963633)

There are plenty of sites that are happy to use boobs to sell you stuff. Part of the reason that I don't turn of the ads at slashdot is that I don't need boobs to be interested in the things that tend to get advertised here.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963729)

You obviously support Obama's gay marridge stance.

good for you.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963711)

I prefer big boobs out in the open.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

umghhh (965931) | about 2 years ago | (#39963809)

informed opinion based on commercials? You must have been brainwashed. I admit that watching commercials is more entertaining that the crap the dish serves you anyway so turning them off is not really helpful. Then again I hardly watch TV because it pisses me off when my wife jumps to another channel during commercial break. When she is not there and I am bored with the crap being served n-th time during a show I wanted to see I turn on my sport watch and do interval training. You sweat a bit and you did something for yourself. You can of course go for a beer but if you do that every break you cannot drive next day....

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

tlhIngan (30335) | about 2 years ago | (#39963389)

Moves like this will only introduce more subtle advertising, using psychological ways like those 0.1s flashes of products in between and product placement. Is that better then? Now you at least know when you are being advertised something. Then you won't, but your mind will, subliminally.

Well, TV shows have started countering the DVR trend of skipping ads by doing more and more product placement. Where there was once a generic computer, there's a Dell or Apple. A cellphone, a Sprint Android or an iPhone. Generic canned drink? Now cola.

Hell, networks have even gone to the point of editing the TV episodes and adding their own product placements where the first time, there was none. It will also only be a matte rof time when you'll have audio ads interspersed with the TV show. Or we'll have scroller ads that take the bottom 10% of the screen (the TV networks are getting particularly obnoxious about this).

Hell, I'm betting once stuff like this gets common, the studios will figure out how they work and do the necessary distortions to mess up the programming - have the DVR on ad-skip mode? It'll automatically randomly skip through the programming for you, courtesy faked distortions the machine interprets as ads.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (4, Informative)

Zuriel (1760072) | about 2 years ago | (#39963469)

The TV shows on The Pirate Bay will have all the obnoxious shit cut out, once again giving pirates a better product than paying (ad-watching) customers.

This is the Internet age. You only need one bored nerd to manually cut ads, crop video, edit the soundtrack and start a torrent.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0, Flamebait)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | about 2 years ago | (#39963681)

Are you fucking insane??? The pirates don't have a "product." Are pirates producing TV shows now? No, they're splicing out a few minutes of a TV show that you're only getting to see anyway because the rest of us are sitting through those commercials.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963721)

The pirates are supplying a market for goods. Those goods may be declared illegal by the political masters, but it does not stop them from being goods.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (3, Funny)

ThePeices (635180) | about 2 years ago | (#39963751)

"Are you fucking insane..."

Dude, calm down. He is not fucking insane, he is taking it slowly and has not yet reached the sexual relations stage with insane.

They have barely reached the kissing stage.

Its not a race. What are you... jealous or something?

Re:I work in the advertising industry (4, Insightful)

SeaFox (739806) | about 2 years ago | (#39963767)

Cable companies are just distributors, not show producers, yet they're always referring to their pay-TV as a "product". How is that any different than pirates offering the same "product" as television without ads delivered over the Internet for free?

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

solidraven (1633185) | about 2 years ago | (#39963663)

It's still very easy for software or hardware to detect such tricks. Remember what they tried with their analogue content protection system in the day for DVDs? You can't exactly call that a huge success, and that's considerably more tricky to eliminate than what you're suggesting now.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about 2 years ago | (#39963799)

Product placement does not annoy me. Actually, the reverse annoys me - covering the manufacturer logo with a sticker or something like that.

Also, ads do not really annoy me ... the first time. After that, I do not want to see that ad ever again and if I do, I get annoyed really quickly, because i hate this kind of repetition. Watching an ad once can be informative - I may find out about a product that I did not know before, but the second time is annoying.

This once happened with my ISP - whenever I call support (because the connection is down, so I'm already ticked off) the operator offers their digital TV service which I do not want, I of course decline. However, once the ISP called me to ask my opinion about the "calling support experience", so I told them (politely) that the operator was polite and solved the problem OK, but that it is pointless to continue to offer the service to me - if I declined 5 times already the probability that I will decline the 6th time is really high and I already know that the service exists, I just do not want it. I did not receive that offer since. I call support, they log the problem and that's it.

Also, I just record TV shows on VHS and can then fast forward trough the ads - no need to rely on the software (detecting ads is kind of like detecting spam - not that easy for computers to do) and the VCR can fast forward smoothly (and I don't need to buy a DVR and the tapes last longer if I want to keep what I recorded).

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

million_monkeys (2480792) | about 2 years ago | (#39963821)

Or we'll have scroller ads that take the bottom 10% of the screen (the TV networks are getting particularly obnoxious about this).

I don't know who decided those were a good idea. I don't really mind commercials, but blocking part of the screen while the show is on is obnoxious. And anytime a show has dialogue in a foreign language, they put the translation at the bottom of the screen - where it's blocked by an ad reminding me about some stupid show or special. I don't know why they think the best way to get me to watch some other show on their network is to ruin the show i'm currently watching on their network. My sympathy for networks is pretty low because they pull stunts like that.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963441)

Butthurt advertiser is butthurt.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963459)

Except subliminal advertising doesn't work.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963501)

Uh-huh. I suppose that's why I'm always rushing out to buy shit I see in commercials--oh, wait: I'm not.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963535)

Experience shows that whatever you can throw at us, you throw at us anyway. If we didn't filter ads, you would still add the product placement and whatever else you can come up with to create revenue, because more money is always better.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

mister_playboy (1474163) | about 2 years ago | (#39963603)

Slashdot is also almost completely supported by advertising. As many users on this site block them, they have moved to more subtle advertising like paid stories on Ask Slashdot, sponsored polls and their jobs site [slashdot.org] .

A very curious assertion coming from a brand new user... I have to assume you are actually a /. employee.

This also makes me wonder if all the "shills" popping up here aren't actually a creation of the site owners themselves, trying to increase traffic via controversy.

licensing fees? (3, Insightful)

bigtrike (904535) | about 2 years ago | (#39963153)

Doesn't Dish already pay licensing fees to the networks as well?

Re:licensing fees? (5, Interesting)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about 2 years ago | (#39963289)

Doesn't Dish already pay licensing fees to the networks as well?

Exactly.

Dish pays millions of dollars a year to the networks for the "right" to carry their programs. If Dish completely cuts out commercials on every channel they carry, the networks still get money.

Re:licensing fees? (4, Interesting)

im_thatoneguy (819432) | about 2 years ago | (#39963367)

Yeah I think advertising has a place: free TV.

I think it's outrageous that Dish has to *pay* local companies for the right to broadcast what the Over-The-Air companies give away for free.

The local affiliates' demands for payment for acting as essentially a beneficial service was always an unreasonable accommodation. I fully support Dish giving the local channels the giant middle finger by cutting off their revenue stream for those customers.

They can either be happy that Dish is spreading their marketing sponsored content or they can charge Dish for the rights to broadcast it commercial free. I don't see why they get to do both.

Re:licensing fees? (1)

ThePeices (635180) | about 2 years ago | (#39963771)

"If Dish completely cuts out commercials on every channel they carry, the networks still get money...."

Thats not the problem. The problem is that the networks are not getting *more* money.

Would you be happy if you were getting less money than you were getting before?

Replacement advertising. (4, Interesting)

goombah99 (560566) | about 2 years ago | (#39963317)

If dish can skip content then there is no reason why they can't replace content. THey could start inserting their own ads.

Also as far as implementing this goes, there's no need to auto-detect commercials. just pay some mechanical Turk to do it. sounds like an easy job to watch say 8 hours of TV and mark the commercials. It's only 4 or 5 channels so that's like 20 people to pay.

Re:Replacement advertising. (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963509)

I work in the biz. They (all major content providers) already do this. By replacing ads on the set top box (STB) there are three tiers of advertising: nationwide ads, regional ads and local ads. This allows them to maximize profits without having nationwide advertising for business that may only operate within a locality. Those hard drives in the STBs are being used for a lot more than just storing your DVRed content these days.

Re:Replacement advertising. (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | about 2 years ago | (#39963601)

Also as far as implementing this goes, there's no need to auto-detect commercials. just pay some mechanical Turk to do it. sounds like an easy job to watch say 8 hours of TV and mark the commercials. It's only 4 or 5 channels so that's like 20 people to pay.

Hell, the commercial breaks on just 4 channels of prime time can be tagged by just one guy if he has a tool that lets him fast-forward and rewind.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

rev0lt (1950662) | about 2 years ago | (#39963155)

So, what you're saying is that 30-minute long publicity WILL NOT pay for content they air (but they will still be able to afford the shows), but instead will focus on other revenue models? I can see why you are upset. Welcome to the 21st century.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (5, Insightful)

Kangburra (911213) | about 2 years ago | (#39963165)

I work in the advertising industry and it is outrageous how far people can go to abuse others. It isn't free to make all those good tv shows and in my opinion authors should get paid for them. Mostly this is based on advertising on TV. If you don't want advertising, go buy the DVD boxes which don't have them. But have some decency and let people get paid for their hard work. Dish Network is bunch of assholes.

Fine but don't then fill the DVD's with crap about piracy and advertising other shows, I just bought them to avoid getting the actual show I want to see in an uninterrupted format, let me have it!

Re:I work in the advertising industry (5, Interesting)

SuperCharlie (1068072) | about 2 years ago | (#39963169)

Look.. if you give me free content, pay for it with advertising. If I pay you for content..or like Dish does, then cram your advertising..k?

I am old enough to remember when cable was new and shiny. At first I was..wow! Great! I pay you and I get to see shows without commercials right? Bzzzt.. no.. I get to pay you AND see commercials..how silly of me.

Personally, I would rather pay and watch 98% pure crap than "prime" content with 3-4-5 minutes of ads blaring every 10 minutes. For me..yes..I would pay for you to just go away.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

z0idberg (888892) | about 2 years ago | (#39963657)

I am old enough to remember when cable was new and shiny. At first I was..wow! Great! I pay you and I get to see shows without commercials right? Bzzzt.. no.. I get to pay you AND see commercials..how silly of me.

This exact issue pisses me off immensely. When "pay" TV first came to Australia one of the big selling points was you pay for the service and get sport and show without ads.

Then they realised that TV shows without ads only went for about 22 minutes so didn't fit together too well. So ads for other pay tv programs started to get wedged in. Then ads for other pay tv channels. Now its a free for all with more ads than show.

Now generations growing up with advertising filled pay TV from the start of their TV watching days think this is fine and the norm. When all I see is a massive double-pay.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

SeaFox (739806) | about 2 years ago | (#39963177)

This is happening only when you watch shows the day after they air. A consumer can do the same thing right now with a DVR. Simply record all the shows and watch them the next night, fast forwarding through all the commercials. Dish is simply automating the process.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

PhrstBrn (751463) | about 2 years ago | (#39963245)

You can do it the same day, even with a DVR. You don't have to wait that long. A 30 minute TV show is ~21 minutes long once you cut out the commercials. Wait 8 minutes after the show normally starts, and you can watch your show commercial free, with a minute of fast forwarding.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Artea (2527062) | about 2 years ago | (#39963247)

This is happening only when you watch shows the day after they air. A consumer can do the same thing right now with a DVR. Simply record all the shows and watch them the next night, fast forwarding through all the commercials. Dish is simply automating the process.

Be careful, if they knew that, there will be a push to make such features on devices illegal, or every time you press fast forward it inserts a 30 second advertisement!

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

andydread (758754) | about 2 years ago | (#39963687)

This is happening only when you watch shows the day after they air. A consumer can do the same thing right now with a DVR. Simply record all the shows and watch them the next night, fast forwarding through all the commercials. Dish is simply automating the process.

Be careful, if they knew that, there will be a push to make such features on devices illegal, or every time you press fast forward it inserts a 30 second advertisement!

Why in the world would congress want to make such features illegal? [slashdot.org]

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

SilentChasm (998689) | about 2 years ago | (#39963181)

1 It's just making it convenient to do what users can already do with their DVRs anyways.

If you don't want advertising, go buy the DVD boxes which don't have them.

2. It isn't always the case that there aren't ads in the DVDs. Some are quite annoying playing before the menus and after each episode ends.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963183)

GO FUCK YOURSELF.

Sincerely,
everyone who's ever watched TV ever.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (4, Insightful)

lightknight (213164) | about 2 years ago | (#39963191)

F*ck that noise. This isn't about being paid for hard work, this is negotiations over just how badly they can sell the customer.

If a TV network has the option of providing a show, and making $40 million off of it (ad free), or $60 million off of it (with ads), they will always choose the latter. As both the customers, as well as the eyeballs being sold (thanks guys), we have the right to tell them that it's enough. Enough of these ads, enough of the chronically shortened programming, enough of the bullsh*t where you trot out an actor earning $500,000 / episode, and tell the rest of us that the network will go bankrupt if they listened to the viewers for once in their goddamn lives.

And while we are on the topic, bring back Firefly.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0, Troll)

SilverDeveloper (2636597) | about 2 years ago | (#39963217)

You can already tell them that enough is enough by not buying their services. No one is forcing you to.

And what's wrong with paying actors $500,000/episode. I am on normal wage too, but if there's demand for those actors and the price goes up there, isn't it just fair they get that? It's capitalism and business in work. Or do you think we should mandate the payments with some kind of law and force them to work?

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963373)

It's capitalism and business in work.

A business, Dish, found a better way to deliver a service in order to make more money than their competitors. You don't like that because you are part of the old way. Who is anti capitalism/business here? If I am legally allowed to skip adds via a button then you go ahead and add product placement. I don't mind at all when someone is drinking a Pepsi in a show I watch, or demanding someone "Pass the Pringles" during a joke about stress eating, as long as it isn't painfully obvious, no posing for the camera just to show me the product please. I have seen a few of these bits lately that I thought were funny, and I assume were paid for, but they didn't hurt and in some cases were solid jokes.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2)

glodime (1015179) | about 2 years ago | (#39963505)

No one is forcing NBC to sell to Dish network.

But I might choose to only watch NBC via the Dish network if Dish provides it without commercials.

BTW, I already have car insurance via a mutual insurer that doesn't advertise; they simply have the best rates; everyone in my state knows it. So, it seems I don't need most of what the advertising industry is selling.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963195)

Better idea: how about just abolishing TV advertising. Replace it with a small levy including in existing tax collection methods - sales tax / VAT / GST.
The fund would then pay TV broadcasters according to ratings. Costs would go up for the stations though, as they'd have to put maybe 55 minutes of programs in an hour instead of 40. Most of the ads are just trying to convince us to buy one brand of crap over another. They serve no purpose to society. Just an annoyance, and an outdated funding model which cannot last much longer anyway.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963285)

This would have the same problem as the way the US pays for roads. Everyone has to pay for road construction out of income tax, which them makes it seem very to cheap to drive once the roads are already built. Then everyone bitches that trains are expensive (Which is just because they are less subsidized). Point being - People who don't drive shouldn't have to pay for people who have 3 cars.

Moving on...

If they charged tax for everyone to pay for TV shows, then taxes would go up quite a bit for everyone, even people who don't watch much TV.

I think that for most things, price should be approximately related to use as much as reasonably possible. (I'm not suggesting you charge people for the street lamp electricity by tracking how much they go out at night or anything...)

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

nprz (1210658) | about 2 years ago | (#39963341)

then taxes would go up quite a bit for everyone, even people who don't watch much TV.

I agree.

I don't even have a TV. I'd be pretty pissed having to pay a tax so we don't have advertising. Even if that were the case, they'd just put advertising directly in the show (more than they already do). It would feel worse than watching an infomercial.

I'm also surprised that Canadians don't complain about having to pay a CRIA tax on recordable CD/DVD media. Over my childhood I bought so many spindles of CDs and DVDs for backups or moving data (high bandwidth, high latency). I'd be pissed if that was making lawyers rich.

How about people just pay for what they use and stop offloading it to the government to manage.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 2 years ago | (#39963667)

Further, highways are important national infrastructure, beyond YOUR personal use, bu alsot necessary for the functioning of the nation. So yes its fair for someone who walks everyone to pay the same amount of income tax on highway funding as the person who owns 3 cars ( who can only drive one at a time mind you)

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963637)

Keep in mind that won't free you from ads. Too many movies are nothing but a lengthy ad for half a dozen products, as I'm sure you must've noticed.

Advertising is unethical. They can try to trick people in believing it isn't, but helping sell crap that people don't need to people who barely have the money to pay for it is unethical, if not criminal.

By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no fuckin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil fuckin' presence. - Bill Hicks.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (4, Insightful)

TheInternetGuy (2006682) | about 2 years ago | (#39963203)

Exactly, how is it abuse to skip commercials on recorded content? I do understand that that the producers need money, but you can not force viewers to watch content they do not want to see. Do you want to make it illegal to go to the loo during the commercial break as well? Perhaps the producers could try a humble attitude and a "Donate" button instead of advertising companies?

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963205)

Please. If I'm watching it the next day I'm skipping the commercials anyway. DVR has fast-forward, you know.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963221)

You're not entitled to getting business. If this takes off and the industry doesn't adapt, it won't survive. It's called capitalism, and this kind of thing has happened many times before, and will definitely happen again.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963225)

Shouldn't that post have been in all caps?

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963255)

I work in the go fuck yourself industry and it is outrageous how far people can go to abuse others. It isn't free to view all those shitty adverts and in my opinion viewers should get paid for them. Mostly this is based on conveniently skipping the shitty adverts on TV. If you don't want to go fuck yourself, go get a job which isn't full of lies. But have some decency and let Dish Network pay viewers in convenience for their strictly rationed time. The advertising industry is bunch of assholes.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (5, Insightful)

anglico (1232406) | about 2 years ago | (#39963297)

The problem isn't just the commercials, it's all the annoying ads in the lower corners of my screen, advertising all the other shows they produce. It distracts from the show I'm watching, and sometimes it blocks something I needed to see that was relevant to the show I was supposed to be focusing on. The networks are shoving more and more advertising down our throats and people are tired of it. Personally I would rather product placement, as long as it isn't the 1950's cheesy way, I'd rather see a Budweiser than a can that says "beer". The 'stars' and the executives are all paid too much and the majority of shows suck. Let's not even talk about reality shows, I really doubt those cost a fortune to make. So I will restate the earlier post "cry me a river"

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

superdave80 (1226592) | about 2 years ago | (#39963371)

What's the difference between skipping the commercials via DVR or...

...changing the channel, or...

...getting up to get a snack, or...

...getting up to go to the bathroom, or...

...watching the ads that you guys put together nowadays that are funny and entertaining, but forgetting what the ad is actually for because modern advertisers seem to forget to mention the product until the last half second of the ad, or...

Re:I work in the advertising industry (3, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | about 2 years ago | (#39963393)

You make money out of making everyone else's life worse, but only just enough that they still put up with it to watch their shows.

People are learning how to cut you out of their lives. I hope your whole industry shrivels and dies as a result of people realising that you and people like you just make everything worse, insinuating yourselves into every aspect of human life and communications like a plague, a plague of serial liars.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963423)

I work in the advertising industry

I might have took your comment more seriously if hadn't prefaced it with that. Even saying "I work for a major broadcast network" would have sounded less needy.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (3, Interesting)

GumphMaster (772693) | about 2 years ago | (#39963485)

No, it is not free to make TV shows but the end broadcasters pay the producers to make them in order to fill broadcast hours and provide a vehicle for their revenue earner: advertising. The broadcasters are in turn paid for the insertion of advertising material into their transmission, and by re-broadcasters. This advertising is sold on the basis of the number of eyeballs that could potentially see it since there is no accurate measure of the number of people that actually see it (live or delayed), and even less of a measure of those that actually absorb it. That potential number of people is completely unchanged by this action which is, ultimately, no different to people using DVR skip, making a coffee, surfing the 'net, or having a pee during the advertising breaks. Everybody in that chain is fully paid by the time of broadcast except the end viewer who, understandably, does not feel in the slightest guilty for not watching the advertising material. This is also the end viewer who, having paid for a DVD box set, would still be bombarded by unskippable warnings containing half-truths that effectively call them a 'thief' and, in many cases, advertising. The industry is, as usual, trying to have its cake, eat its cake, and have a piece of everyone else's cake too.

If a legal challenge is mounted on the basis that creating external metadata, such as an index of positions in the stream, is a breach of copyright in the stream then it will be one of the more memorable attempts to overreach copyright law. If such a thing were allowed to stand then the act of creating an index card for a DVD library listing the length of the feature and extras would be a copyright violation, bookmarking a position in a movie your are watching would be a violation: clearly an idiotic proposition and counter to the public interest. I suspect, as usual, copyright holders will attempt to circumvent the actual copyright law by using contracts to do an end-run.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

SeaFox (739806) | about 2 years ago | (#39963507)

Consider that Hulu gives people access to shows when they want to watch them just like a DVR, except you can't skip the ads.. Yet we keep hearing about the television networks, the very people who own Hulu, and the very people who want to make money from advertising inserted into their content, doing things [slashdot.org] with the company that will drive people away and kill it.

Don't know if you work in the television advertising industry, but if so have you ever thought of asking your clients "Do you guys really have a clue?"

Re:I work in the advertising industry (3)

Libertarian001 (453712) | about 2 years ago | (#39963541)

No, I'm not going to go look it up and yes, I'm sure it's been asked before. What, exactly, am I paying a monthly subscription for?*

*Actually, I'm not. I just moved and I elected to not transfer my service. There are better things to do with my time than watch TV. That includes reading Slashdot. Let that sink in. Posting on message board is a more worthwhile endeavor than watching the tripe spewing from Hollywood. You, personally, have made it such a miserable experience that I'm simply no longer willing to put up with your garbage. So, on a personal note, thank you.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (5, Insightful)

EdIII (1114411) | about 2 years ago | (#39963591)

Desperation is a stinky cologne.

Nobody is going to have any sympathy for you because you need to realize one simple immutable fact:

nobody wants the shit you are responsible for making. nobody. everybody hates you with the burning passion of a thousand suns. the only way for you to get advertisements in front of people is by the lack of choice .

Therefore, you are already deeply unethical in any attempt to sue somebody out of existence like Dish Network that is providing what the customer wants (Sonicblue), and deeply disturbed and sociopathic with your successful attempt to ruin television with disruptive overlays during programming.

The only way you can survive is by continuing to make sure the consumer has the lack of choice, and then you sit there with the unmitigated gall to complain when choice is provided.

Get a clue. Get a different career. I suggest Ambulance Chasing Lawyer or the guys who provide fresh meat for Hostel-like entertainment packages in Eastern European countries. You know.... something with a little more heart.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963631)

people that are in advertising are scum

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963675)

Thanks for reminding me I need to install ad blockers on some family laptops when i visit for the holiday coming up

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963733)

lol kill yourself. advertising is a fucking plague.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about 2 years ago | (#39963739)

If you don't want advertising, go buy the DVD boxes

... and sit trough unskippable ads.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

zmollusc (763634) | about 2 years ago | (#39963745)

I agree that people should get paid for all the hard work they put in creating adverts, but you must realise that your industry is paid for by the advertisers and those advertisers make money by selling products.

Scenario one: I watch TV and (by various means) skip the ads, then go shopping and may buy products whose companies have paid the advertising industry $millions .

Scenario two: I watch TV and have to see ads, then go shopping and avoid products whose ads I have seen because I associate them with pushy jerks who interrupt the shows I like.

Take the money, make the ads, let me avoid the ads and it will all work out.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963753)

SUPPOSEDLY once upon a time it was all our paid tv fees what paid for all that shit when we moved to cable back in the 70's and 80's BECAUSE it had no commercials. And then you ad assholes got greedy again. (suprise suprise) and now we have more commercials now than ever. AND pay for cable. Then it was sattelite tv we paid an arm and leg for. And that had no commercials. Once again that didn't last long at all. And now all channels are jam packed full of more commercials than ever.

Just admit you assbags are greedy. No money will ever be enough to 'pay' for tv.

And now look what people like you have done to the internet. Turned the greatest medium ever invented into yet another commercial with some content.

I personally hate you and wish you were dead. advertising and marketing people make the world a worse place. you are leeches on the asshole of society. you produce nothing. you serve no useful purpose at all. IF YOU ALL DIED TODAY NOBODY WOULD CARE TOMMOROW!

Please do the world a favor and either find a new line of work. Or at least shoot yourself in the head. You can not justify what you do to anyone whos not also a greedy fuck useless waste of space.

I'm serious. Drop dead asshole. Improve the world.

Tone it down?! (1)

BenJCarter (902199) | about 2 years ago | (#39963781)

One tailored advert three times per hour is cool. 20 minutes/hour of tampon adverts fails my viewing threshold. Get smart, or get bypassed.

Re:I work in the advertising industry (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | about 2 years ago | (#39963841)

I work in the advertising industry...

Bill Hicks would say,

By the way, if anyone here is in marketing or advertising...kill yourself. Thank you. Just planting seeds, planting seeds is all I'm doing. No joke here, really. Seriously, kill yourself, you have no rationalisation for what you do, you are Satan's little helpers. Kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself now. Now, back to the show. Seriously, I know the marketing people: 'There's gonna be a joke comin' up.' There's no fuckin' joke. Suck a tail pipe, hang yourself...borrow a pistol from an NRA buddy, do something...rid the world of your evil fuckin' presence.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but I'll point out that since you work for an industry that is Pure Concentrated Evil, no one here gives a damn what you have to say.

15 minutes of dead air... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963139)

15 minutes of dead air for every hour of programming? Nice.

Re:15 minutes of dead air... (2)

jamesh (87723) | about 2 years ago | (#39963437)

What if they just moved the ads to the end of the show? That would suck less than having it constantly interrupted and the advertisers still get eyeballs on their content (in theory).

It's gotten to the point in Australia where the commercial channels clip the content before the ad break so for stuff like the simpsons you often don't get to hear the punchline. No wonder people download the stuff.

The Next Thing You Know .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963145)

There will be some whiner complaining about AdBlocker on FireFox ....

ReplayTV (5, Interesting)

jimmyswimmy (749153) | about 2 years ago | (#39963211)

I had a ReplayTV years ago that did this, which used to be a competitor for Tivo until they lost the pricing war (didn't take long!). Actually until a few months ago I still used it regularly to tape standard def TV shows, but then my "lifetime" subscription ran out... (let THAT be a lesson to you)

Anyway they had two incredible features on these boxes, from around 2003 until the service shut down. The first was commercial skipping, which worked reasonably well. The second was the ability to share recorded shows. Several communities sprung up around this capability, so you could request a show that you had missed from someone else who had taped it.

Predictably they were sued and that did not help their already troubled business model. But it's not such a new thing for commercial skip to be available in COTS consumer devices. And man I miss it!

Re:ReplayTV (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963353)

Oh. You didn't realise that they reconsidered and continued the service after we all bitched at their plans to discontinue? By the time they did that I'd switched to running against SchedulesDirect provided schedule served up by WiRNS (same data that replaytv serve up), and since that works so well I haven't bothered to switch back. If you've still got your boxes, I suggest reconnecting them. :)

I couldn't live without my 2 replaytvs. I use them to record everything - standard or high def in medium quality. Setting the HD output of the cable box to anamorphic allows you to exceed SD - I'd estimate I get to about DVD quality. I willingly sacrifice 5.1 surround and that extra bit of visual definition for the awesomeness that replaytv otherwise provides. Automatic commercial skip is the dogs bollocks.

IIRC, I think it was DishTV that bought out the IP once ReplayTV was sued into oblivion.

Breaking Through Your Backdoor - it feels good! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963227)

You'd be surprised how much hardware and software have back doors built into them, much of it legally.

GOOGLE: Cisco routers back doors

and you'll find hours of reading material alone just for one company.

WIKILEAKS: published information on dozens of companies making spyware for hardware and software and selling it to governments.

When is the last time you checked the firmware on your PCI devices and network card?

Your router?

Dumped and checksummed/debugged your BIOS lately?

Why aren't the anti-malware companies like Symantec and others climbing over each other in an effort to invent the technology and utilize it via the cloud to create GIANT databases of legit firmware for hardware in the fight against the most serious of root kits? Are they in bed with big bro?

How many so called remote exploits were patched this week in Windows? This month? This year? Since its release? Start from the beginning of the Windows version release and count all of the remote exploits up to present day and compare that to OpenBSD for example.

##

U.S. govâ(TM)t wiretapping laws and your network
â" https://www.networkworld.com/news/2007/012307-us-govt-wiretapping-laws-and.html [networkworld.com]

âoeActivists have long grumbled about the privacy implications of the legal âoebackdoorsâ that networking companies like Cisco build into their equipmentâ"functions that let law enforcement quietly track the Internet activities of criminal suspects. Now an IBM researcher has revealed a more serious problem with those backdoors: They donâ(TM)t have particularly strong locks, and consumers are at risk.â
â" http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/03/hackers-networking-equipment-technology-security-cisco.html [forbes.com]

Re:Breaking Through Your Backdoor - it feels good! (0)

rev0lt (1950662) | about 2 years ago | (#39963349)

Start from the beginning of the Windows version release and count all of the remote exploits up to present day and compare that to OpenBSD for example.

Please also compare funcionality. Please do tell me how many OpenBSD versions offer MAC control.

How many so called remote exploits were patched this week in Windows?

And X/Xorg or related libraries? Or local exploits? What features does OpenBSD provide in that regard that no one else does? How will OpenBSD make my computer impervious to a specific libjpeg attack? Or a zip bug?
...And yes, I'm both an OpenBSD user and enthusiast, and a windows user. You are absolutely right on the point that people take for granted base technology, but you lose it on the creepy side. And given the non-trivial IPSEC OpenBSD allegations, you can have only one certainty - if you worry that much, trust no one.

First of all... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963241)

Of course they are "manipulating" the content stream. Even the act of transmission is a type of manipulation. They will also be re-compressing, buffering, etc. Inserting markers isn't required, since they could be sent in a separate stream if required.

At any rate, I haven't had cable TV or similar for more than 20 years (and I am only in my early 30s), because... I think the cable companies are huge rip-offs. The original idea I remember from the 80s was:

Cable: More channels, no advertisements! (but it's more expensive...)
But they got greedy. They wanted money from subscribers AND advertisers. Why should I pay for TV with ads?! It doesn't make sense.
I do pay now, for Hulu (Hulu.jp), but it's relatively cheap and no ads. The minute they start running ads is the minute I will cancel my account.

You might say "Ah, but what about local stations? They are free and need the money from the adverts!" Well... yeah, and then they try to charge the cable companies for carrying them. As long as they are running ads, they should be paying the cable companies, since they are basically acting as a huge giant broadcast tower by piping the TV with ads and all into everyone's home who might not even have reception otherwise.

Advertising (4, Interesting)

girlintraining (1395911) | about 2 years ago | (#39963261)

When cable TV was originally created, it was promoted as an advertisement-free alternative to regular TV. The subscription fee was the replacement to advertising revenue. Many people seem to have forgotten that -- today, it's just a foregone conclusion that you have to suffer advertising on everything. But it's a lie; And if there's millions of viewers on DishTV's network, then it doesn't matter how loudly advertisers scream... Dish can just pay the content producers directly and tell them to suck dick. The only one that loses here are advertisers who have to suck dick instead of forcing theirs down their subscriber's throats. :O

Re:Advertising (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963291)

Actually if you watch a number of cable channels on dish it looks like dish does adds in the places the local cable companies would use. (When a commercial is cut into with another after 3 seconds its a sign this is happening and it happens a lot on dish). Note that this does not apply to the cable channels as dish would then be cutting its own throat, only to the local network stations because dish can't cut the local commercials out for its own.

Re:Advertising (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963355)

girlintraining, I'm unclear, is sucking dick a good thing or a bad thing. Does that depend on training?

Re:Advertising (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963689)

I think the answer will change once s/he has finished his gender reassignment.

Advertising never ends (4, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 2 years ago | (#39963359)

The real problem for most people is that advertising never ends, it never seems to be enough. For Americans it might just always have been there, I am old enough and European enough there are alternatives. Germany has a very odd mechanic where they seems to show all the ads on one TV station for about half an hour and that is it. Belgium occasionally has one. The BBC has none and Dutch TV didn't have to use any on Sunday so they had to add cartoons to make programs run a full hour. Battle Star Galactica (The original) followed by Bugs Bunny and then the news.

But if you watch some American TV (and may god have mercy on your soul) you will see ads EVERYWHERE, every five minutes, they have popups during the program, on the first seconds as the program comes back on after a commercial block and in the program itself. The logic seems to be that if 1 ad works, a 100 will work even better.

The reasoning when applied to sex (hey, I can't always use car anologies) would be that since your gf likes a small penis inside, she would REALLY like a big one so why not have her fucked by a whale and make her really happy. And then you wonder why she ain't happy, because you just make your gf explode into a thousand gooey bits from being banged by a volkswagen (oh okay, one car analogy) sized penis! HAPPY?

It as as when your gf asks you to spank her, what she means is that she wants you to make her hiny glow a nice pink color. NOT to beat her until she is a thin red paste on the wall and the cops are hauling you away, yet again (and now you know why on /. we use car analogies, because the other kind are just to revealing of the inner workings of the average analogy using slashdotter). There is a line between advanced sex play and first degree murder and there is a line between advertising that works and advertising that doesn't work because there is just to fucking much of it.

People are lazy, that can lead you to believe you can push them and stop until they start to react. The problem is that while people have a great deal of inertia, once they stop moving, they are unstoppable. Once people have started using time-shifting and ad-blockers, you can't get them to stop again. I started using ad blocking because a series of ads just pissed me off enough to take the effort and now all ads are blocks and screw you if your website dies because of it.

I think the real problem is that TV execs don't eat their own dog shit (calling TV food is just to ridiculous) they don't have to sit through their own ads to watch their own content. They don't get just how fucking annoying it gets and the people that stop watching don't show up on their statistics until suddenly, advertising on TV doesn't have as much effect in generating sales. You can see it in the advertising industry, they know they aren't reaching customers anymore but are at a loss of coming up with a solution. There are still viewers but they are the cattle that lack the income/knowledge to go elsewhere, the high income viewers are gone, unreachable. So... MORE ADS! That will get them back!

Free market (2)

yesterdaystomorrow (1766850) | about 2 years ago | (#39963395)

There is nothing more "industry unfriendly" than a genuine free market. Despite propaganda, no businessman ever wants to compete in freedom. What you want is to control the customer and the competition, not let them control you.

Dish without commercials (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963465)

It is questionable if Dish initiates action, but if Dish puts an option on the DVR to record without commercials and customer chooses to activate this option then it should be legal. Customer has right to record only what they want to see under fair use rules as long as for personal use.

New consumer paradigm. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963479)

There will be a transition period, but this is at least one example of an actual commercial firm realizing the major shift in how the consumers want to access media content.

Censorship. (1)

Alex Belits (437) | about 2 years ago | (#39963587)

As a long-time advocate of censorship in mass-distribution media, I have to remind everyone that this is also a form of censorship.

I believe, it would be great if government ensured availability of media in such ad-stripped form, and provided a way to compensate the providers with subscription fees even if those providers refuse to implement such service on their own, or do not like the fees that users are willing to pay.

Re:Censorship. (1)

SeaFox (739806) | about 2 years ago | (#39963815)

As a long-time advocate of censorship in mass-distribution media, I have to remind everyone that this is also a form of censorship.

Which part is censorship?

The part where consumers get to opt-in to a service to skip ads, continue watching TV with ads as they have before, or continue to DVR it and make up their own minds then? Or the part where the owner of the content wants to sell advertising inserted with the product and not have a reseller editing the final item without their say-so?

War is Peace.
Freedom is Slavery.
Choice is Censorship.

AD: Viewers love to skip commercials (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963655)

No, they don't love to skip commercials, the reason is WAAAAY TOO MANY commercials per 1 hour block!!! Of 1 hour block, commecials make up to 12-13 minutes of time, sometimes even 15-17 minutes of time. That is easily about 25% of each TV hour filled with utmost garbage, AND THAT HAPPENS EVERY BLOODY 10 MINUTES! Who on Earth would love to watch a show chopped in tiny inedible bits, like it happens with USA TV channels! No one, with an exemption for true masochists. I suggest cut the friggin' commercials down to 3x per hour a no more than 8-10 minutes and their TV shows will again be watchable.

Ever wondered why EU TV channels present their USA-based shows with 3-4 scene fade-outs before true commercials appear? That's how commercially over-fed are the USA TV shows.

TV/commercial breaks too long (2)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | about 2 years ago | (#39963723)

This is something that really bugs me. When I was a kid, I can remember the exact pattern of commercials. There were exactly 4 commercial breaks with 4 commercials each 30 seconds long. So, you had 22 minutes of content for 8 minutes of advertising. Even the placement was exactly the same in my favorite shows. Two breaks were interspersed during the show with 2 breaks mixed in between show intro-outros. I don't know if the ratio is the same, but the breaks on network TV are definitely way too long and far too much for my patience.

I stopped paying for Cable for a number of reasons (2)

Phlow (2488880) | about 2 years ago | (#39963731)

One of which being that I was fucking tired of PAYING to watch advertisements. It's one of the biggest scams of all time. Everywhere I go, I'm inundated with ads. The rare time I go to watch a movie at the theater, now instead of just movie ads, I'm watching ads for soft-drinks, cars, TV shows... Keep going Entertainment Industry. Keep annoying the shit out of me. See how far it gets you.

Re:I stopped paying for Cable for a number of reas (1)

Gordonjcp (186804) | about 2 years ago | (#39963811)

Exactly. Why would you *pay* for TV services, and then have adverts shown all the time? American TV is the worst for this, with about five minutes of programme for every ten minutes of obnoxiously loud adverts.

I don't really watch a lot of TV, but loud intrusive adverts put me off watching what little I do watch. BBC iPlayer is just about perfect.

Bathroom break time folks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#39963755)

When I see an ad, I get up and go to the can, simple eh?

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