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Senators To Unveil the 'Ex-Patriot Act' To Respond To Facebook's Saverin

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the why-schumer-is-my-least-favorite-congresscritter dept.

Facebook 716

An anonymous reader writes "Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., has a status update for Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin: Stop attempting to dodge your taxes by renouncing your U.S. citizenship or never come to back to the U.S. again." See this earlier story on Saverin's plan to make the leap out of the U.S. tax system.

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Will timothy avoid marriage to CmdrTco? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031063)

And risk never coming in his bung hole again?

I understand, but... (1)

Xander85 (1224448) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031075)

don't we have much bigger things to worry about? This isn't a common case....well, it might be if things continue the way they are going.

Re:I understand, but... (5, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031213)

don't we have much bigger things to worry about? This isn't a common case....

Doing it as an individual is novel. However, it is a very common case for companies to do this - take all the benefits of incorporating in one place, then set up shell corporations to book all your profits elsewhere wherever taxes (and services, but it doesn't matter) are minimal. But then when somebody infringes their rights, they come crying to the powerful government where they incorporated (which actually has expensive stuff like courts and diplomats and armies to impose a global Intellectual Property regime... It's especially common among high-tech companies.) So if you include that, it is actually a large issue.

I'm not too comfortable with this particular law for some reason. I think I'd rather see nations work together to close the inter-government loopholes in corporate taxes instead.

Re:I understand, but... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031519)

It's *NOT* novel, and as I pointed out in the last article's comments page, there's already law on the books that you're liable for 10 years of federal taxes when you expatriate. So in fact, you're already on the hook even if you leave, they just may have been lax in enforcing this before.

Re:I understand, but... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031551)

Exactly. All the massive companies have their main corporate body elsewhere in a tax havens, and you get bet the main shareholder have their wealth set up in a similar manner.

Perhaps the politicians would be better off serving the public and not setting up laws to facilitate the above for a quick back-hand in their own self interest.

Re:I understand, but... (1)

squidflakes (905524) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031239)

Wait, what? If marginal and capital gains tax rates keep falling, more people will leave the US for lower taxes? How does that work exactly?

Re:I understand, but... (3, Insightful)

bkmoore (1910118) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031487)

don't we have much bigger things to worry about? This isn't a common case....well, it might be if things continue the way they are going.

From the article, "Last year 1,700 people renounced their U.S. citizenship." YES, for a nation of only 313 million, 1,700 people renouncing their citizenship in a single year is a major problem. I for one am glad our Senate is on it.

Why is the solution to every problem (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031079)

A) More government/laws

B) More Taxes

C) More War

D) All of the above

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (4, Interesting)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031175)

There's a reason why Texas' legislature only meets every other year (excepting emergency sessions)

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (-1, Troll)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031373)

They are not smart enough to find the building any faster?

Considering the oppressive laws they come up with it can't be much else.

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031445)

Texas is far less oppressive compared to more liberal states.

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031543)

Only when you're so fucking twisted you actually consider things like environmental standards, community programs designed to help the needy, and taxes of any type 'oppressive'.

But don't you worry...the first-world manner in which we live will survive, despite the selfish efforts of people like you to torpedo it for their own personal gain.

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (3, Insightful)

Chemisor (97276) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031343)

Because of whom you are asking. When you ask the government to solve your problem, the government can only offer solutions it can implement - the ones in its job description. That job includes passing laws, collecting taxes, and maintaining the military. So why are you surprized when the help it offers you includes doing its job?

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031465)

Because he is another /. libretardian.

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (2, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031417)

Just a hop, skip and jump away from building a WALL armed with "shoot to kill" orders on anyone who tries to leave??? Wake up America, the Democrats are NOT the Dems of yesteryear. They have morphed into tyrant wannabes.

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (5, Informative)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031503)

Wake up America, the Democrats are NOT the Dems of yesteryear.

Sure they are! [wikipedia.org]

Seems to me, the problem is that at some point people got this crazy notion that certain groups of politicians aren't selfish dicks...

Re:Why is the solution to every problem (0)

Homr Zodyssey (905161) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031535)

Pretty soon they'll start throwing people in prison without trial and torturing them!

No...wait...that was the other guys....

Well this is retarded. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031085)

1) Leave
2) only come to the country on holidays
3) have others do the work for you.

Why are your senators always so mad?

Re:Well this is retarded. (4, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031209)

Why are your senators always so mad?

It makes them look busy.

Because they're jealous... (5, Funny)

earls (1367951) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031409)

That someone is successfully abusing the system better than they are.

Re:Well this is retarded. (1)

gstrickler (920733) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031539)

Why are your senators always so mad?

Because this means less money for them to spend.

Not Just Saverin (4, Insightful)

WrongSizeGlass (838941) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031103)

Why target only those evade their taxes by renouncing their citizenship? Shouldn't these politicians take a good look at themselves? How many of them use every loophole (or sneaky, illegal tactic) they can find to evade their taxes? These people are not above reproach. Most, if not all, are just as guilty of evading their taxes.

Re:Not Just Saverin (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031129)

No, they're not. Stop the nonsense false equivocation and handwavy accusations at "politicians" as an anonymous but easily vilified class.

Re:Not Just Saverin (5, Insightful)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031159)

Most of them are lawyers. There's an entire field of law dedicated to tax avoidance. Gaming the rules is what they do. Whining that someone else is doing the same is remarkably disengenuous.

it's envy (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031281)

I think they're pissed off because it's the most uncomplicated way (and fully legal) of avoiding taxes. You don't even need to hire expensive lawyers or anything, like many of them senators probably have, in order to evade taxes. It's ENVY!

Re:Not Just Saverin (1)

Ashenkase (2008188) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031189)

That's right! You should be focusing your hadwavy accusations at the lawyers.... wait... most politicians are lawyers.... nevermind.

Re:Not Just Saverin (5, Interesting)

Lynchenstein (559620) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031195)

And extend this to the "other" people, AKA corporations that do this. Apple, Coke, Microsoft...the list goes on. If you don't like the loopholes, then close them. But start from a position of honesty and integrity before criticizing others.

Re:Not Just Saverin (2)

Githaron (2462596) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031235)

I simplified tax code would do wonders. No company should need lawyers to look over their taxes. It should be straightforward.

doesn't work like that (2)

mbkennel (97636) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031379)

A simple tax code, without flexibility in interpretation (which means that IRS just says "no you can't do that" even though there isn't any specific justification in the code), means giant loopholes and tax evasion in practice.

A substantial fraction of the tax code is the way it is because they are patches done to attempt to preclude diversions of income which were not intended by the simple code.

All sorts of very simple appearing programs in fact have egregious security bugs in the corner cases.

Re:Not Just Saverin (4, Interesting)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031253)

The easiest way for a corporation to avoid corporate income taxes is to "increase its costs" - that is, hire more people, raise salaries, and generally do all the things a good citizen of a corporation should do.

Corporate income taxes aren't like personal income taxes. The biggest "loopholes" aren't really bad things.

Re:Not Just Saverin (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031341)

yeah, it's fucking ludicrous that they whine over some guy evading $67M out of billions when there are 234321423 companies not paying shit thanks to convoluted taxation loopholes.

Re:Not Just Saverin (5, Insightful)

niado (1650369) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031283)

I'm not familiar with all the details of this particular case, but there is a difference between paying as little tax as possible (everyone should be attempting to do this...) and committing tax fraud.

I definitely agree our tax system is junk and should not have so many loopholes that are exploitable by huge corporations and the wealthy but I really can't fault anyone for doing whatever they can as long as they are acting within the rules.

Re:Not Just Saverin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031507)

Why target only those evade their taxes by renouncing their citizenship?

Because the United States actually taxes its citizens on the income that they earn while outside of the United States. No one would bother renouncing (for tax reasons) otherwise. Do other nations do this?

So like the Soviet Union? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031105)

Like the Soviet Union where you can't leave?

Or like Nazi Germany, where you can leave, but not bring any of your valuables?

Re:So like the Soviet Union? (2, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031201)

It's not about preventing people from leaving, it's about preventing people from leaving solely because they're doing it as a way to cheat the system that is partially responsible for where they are in the first place.

Re:So like the Soviet Union? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031361)

Not seeing a distinction there. That's just a mealy mouthed way of saying "we want to take all your shit, and we got guns so pay up".

Re:So like the Soviet Union? (5, Insightful)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031413)

No, it is method of saying you used the things our taxes paid for to get rich now pay it back or GTFO and don't come back.

Do you think a welfare recipient who wins the lottery should be able to avoid paying back what they took by leaving?

Re:So like the Soviet Union? (1)

tommy8 (2434564) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031389)

U can leave, u just can't come back

Re:So like the Soviet Union? (3, Insightful)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031443)

Pretty much the opposite:

You can leave, and you can take all of your valuables out of the jurisdiction of the United States, and give up your obligations and rights as a citizen, but once you do, you can't come back or bring any of the valuables back.

Re:So like the Soviet Union? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031461)

Yes.

God this is stupid (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031111)

How American do you think a guy with a name like "Eduardo Saverin" is, anyway? He's better off not living anywhere near vindictive dickheads like Schumer anyway.

Oh well, there's $67 million that won't go to crack-addicted she-boons, investment banks, and other welfare dependents.

Re:God this is stupid (0, Troll)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031205)

Probably more "American" than someone named "Rahm Emmanuel" or "Barack Obama".

Re:God this is stupid (2, Informative)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031245)

This is America... the big melting pot and all that... names are the last thing that tell you where people are from here. I live in the area that Schumer (unfortunately) represents. We have hispanics with Polish names, Russians with English names and blacks with Irish names... and most of them are at least third generation Americans.

Tax rates (2)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031115)

The move was likely a financial one, as he owns an estimated 4 percent of Facebook and stands to make $4 billion when the company goes public. ...
Saverin’s move, which they dub a “scheme” that would “help him duck up to $67 million in taxes.”

You're telling me he only has to pay 1.6% on $4 billion? Goddamn the rich have it good.

Re:Tax rates (4, Informative)

hierofalcon (1233282) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031215)

Reduce taxes by $67 million != only pay $67 million.

Re:Tax rates (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031431)

Presumably he bought his 4% stake and it cost him some amount of money, so that might be part of it. But for 67 million to be a 30% tax rate he would have had to pay 3.7 billion for that 4% stake. Even at 10% it's still over 3 billion of original investment.

There has to be something I'm missing.

Re:Tax rates (2)

Myopic (18616) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031269)

Indeed.

"Investment income" is another way of saying "income you don't have to work for". To me, it seems that "getting free money without having to work for it" is enough of an incentive to invest, without also requiring a lower tax rate.

What America needs is an incentive to work. Let's make sure earned income is taxed at no more than half the rate of unearned income. Let's find whatever rates we need to, to pay for government, and also incentivize working for a paycheck.

Re:Tax rates (5, Insightful)

Shatrat (855151) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031369)

Investment income is the reward you get by risking your money by investing in a business. Investing in a business gives them capital to buy assets and hire employees.
It is not something that should be discouraged, unless your myopia extends to economics.

Re:Tax rates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031509)

Then people wouldn't "invest", then you wouldn't have "companies" because there would be no money to fund them, and then you wouldn't have a JOB. So you wouldn't have your "income" in the first place.

Re:Tax rates (4, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031287)

So what you're saying is that $64.0 mil should be enough taxes for any government?

!(Patriot Act) (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031133)

was kind of hoping this was to cancel out the patriot act...

This is a common practice (1)

derrickh (157646) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031135)

Many athletes from other countries with very high tax rates (Sweden for example) would become naturalized US citizens because the US was well known for having tons of tax loop holes for the wealthy.Now that those loop holes are closing, the flow of greedy rich people of flowing the other way. It's really not a big deal now that globalization has devalued citizenship for the most part.

D

Re:This is a common practice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031481)

Even the king of Belgium keeps his money in the US.

The nerve (1, Insightful)

Bodhammer (559311) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031137)

The nerve of Saverin to think that it was actually his money! What was he thinking?.

Re:The nerve (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031227)

He went into it knowing the tax burden, and benefited from the stability of an economy from which he now plans to thieve. Stick your self-righteousness up your ass... you know as well as Saverin exactly what he's doing.

Re:The nerve (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031477)

Man he sure has some nerve for coming to this country and then renouncing his citizenship last year before the IPO was planned. And he really has some nerve paying his exit taxes when he renounced his citizenship and then not paying them after he was already not a citizen. Reading some of the better written articles on the topic today you should know that since he plans to become a citizen of Singapore where he lives and has lived for the past few years you have to renounce your other citizenships, which is exactly what he's done.

Re:The nerve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031233)

In the absence of a system of government that recognizes the value of a dollar, he has a pile of very ineffective toilet paper.

Re:The nerve (1, Insightful)

similar_name (1164087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031241)

As long as you don't mind making up the difference. Sure government should be smaller and we should be spending way less but if you justify others dodging taxes just remember you or your grandchildren will have to make up the difference.

Re:The nerve (3, Insightful)

MachineShedFred (621896) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031249)

Because he didn't make any of that money based on Government-subsidized infrastructure, did he? Like, for example, the protocols and research necessary to create the Internet?

This is like someone making shedloads of money with a trucking company, and then doing everything possible to not pay for roads.

Re:The nerve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031531)

It appears to me (I could be wrong) that you've never been outside the US...

There are many unique conditions here in the US that made Facebook possible. He went in knowing that there would be tax implications. Try to live in another country for a while and you'll understand the situation better -- the complete lack of infrastructure, the government messing up with the laws constantly and screwing companies left and right (yes, USians believe it is hard in here, they have no idea)... Would you say facebook would have existed had it started in Singapore or another country?

It's annoying to see laws being abused, but in this case, I'd say it serves him well.

Re:The nerve (1)

Necroman (61604) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031259)

It was money made in the US, and people in the US that make money legally need to pay income tax on that money.

If Saverin want's to go make billions in another country and pay taxes there, let me. But I don't think he should be able to enter the US, be part of a team that builds a business in the US, then when he makes a lot of money on it, leaves without paying his share of taxes. I'd say he's exploiting the opportunity he was given in the US without paying his share of income tax.

Re:The nerve (1)

SteelKidney (1964470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031521)

This is why capital gains taxes are... well, to avoid inflammatory rhetoric, let's call them "odd".

Facebook revenue gets taxed. Income put into the stock market is (generally) taxed. Yet, when the profits of a company get divided up among stock holders, the money gets taxed yet again. The infrastructure FB uses has been paid for in taxes a few times- corporate income taxes and payroll taxes come to mine immediately, but given how the federal government has never met a tax it didn't like, I'm sure that there are others.

A more interesting question, I think, is one of pragmatism. If the U.S. wants to continue to have a tax-based revenue stream, is it doing itself any good by fostering a tax system that is causing billionaires (not just this guy) and even some companies to leave the U.S. for better tax structures?

Re:The nerve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031297)

Yep, Facebook didn't benefit at all from that internet infrastructure that the government developed in the first place. Or the roads that their employees drove on to get to work, or the police force that kept their building and corporate secrets safe from break-ins, or the electrical infrastructure that was built to allow for power to reach their server farms, or the land grant universities that were built that many of their employees attended, or the regulations that will keep their upcoming IPO from being scammed on day one. Seriously, they made all that money and owe none of it in taxes.. We should all just pay no taxes and see what happens to all the above.. I mean, c'mon, it's "My Money".

Re:The nerve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031327)

It's not his money.

It's everybody else's, and he's just in the lucky place where he can benefit from the labor of others in enticing other people to get their money.

He didn't do anything to make Facebook what it is, and contributed nothing to its value except being a source of funds.

Stop acting as if he's some great entrepreneur who is being chided away from the country.

Besides, how much benefit is he getting from this country being the source of wealth that it is? The productive society with money to spend on the stocks?

A lot.

Why let him get the benefits for free, then walk away?

Do you run a store where you let the customers come in, and abscond with the inventory?

Re:The nerve (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031335)

What was he thinking?

About sleeping on top of a pile of money with many beautiful ladies.

Re:The nerve (1)

squidflakes (905524) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031383)

Probably that all of those roads he drove on, the police and firefighters that protected his property, airports that serviced his private jet and the Air Traffic Control system that kept it safe, along with the initial investment in the infrastructure that was required for him to make his billions was somehow free.

Yeah, the nerve. (1, Insightful)

pkbarbiedoll (851110) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031403)

Who puts Saverin's house out when it is burning out of control?
Who paves the roads and repairs the bridges that Saverin's luxury cars utilize every day?
Who delivers the mail that Saverin relies on for his business and home operations?
Who manages the pipes and treatment of the shit that Saverin dumps down his toilets every day?
Who patrols the streets that Saverin lives and works on, protecting him from crime?
Who watches and protects the nation of America when terrorists and other countries seek to destroy Saverin's way of life, property, and business interests?

In Saverin's mind (and yours) all of these are freebies.. entitlements. No responsibility to maintain them whatsoever.

People like Saverin are half of what's wrong with America today. I will be glad when we are one less "Saverin citizen" when he departs for Singapore. We don't need trash like that here.

Re:The nerve (1)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031525)

Except it wasn't really his money, it was the government's, as decided by a democratically elected legislature. You might not like taxes, but try having a civilization without infrastructure. You can live in Africa for a few years and then we'll talk.

Worst bill title ever (1)

detritus. (46421) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031139)

Great. First we have the McCarthyist Enemy Expatration Act [govtrack.us] and now the Expatriation Prevention by Abolishing Tax-Related Incentives for Offshore Tenancy. Two really different things, the first being far more egregious than the latter. This is how you get clueless people to think they are supporting something good when all they can remember is "that expatriation bill".

Why doesn't it read... (5, Insightful)

ravenscar (1662985) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031157)

Senators to drastically simplify the tax system and eliminate loopholes?

Instead, these two people are going to overreact to the publicity received by this particular individual and create a bill to address him and the people like him (I believe under a couple thousand people over the last few years). It will do little to impact the nation as a whole.

Imagine if they were to put their effort into fixing the root of the problem...

Re:Why doesn't it read... (1)

squidflakes (905524) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031421)

Where it will die in committee due to other Senators and House members that are in the pockets of corporations and wealthy individuals who depend on those tax loopholes for their ivory back-scratchers and cheap labor. So, either way, it sounds like wasted time.

Complete crap. (1)

multicoregeneral (2618207) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031161)

Doesn't solve the problem of unfair taxation, and makes a bad problem worse. Why are we still voting for these idiots again?

Re:Complete crap. (1)

Eponymous Hero (2090636) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031393)

who else is there to vote for?

I have to ask (4, Funny)

SteelKidney (1964470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031171)

With asshats like Chuck Schumer in office, what makes him think Saverin (and many others) *want* to come back? It's a little like a hotel manager banning you from his hotel after you complain about the fact that someone took a crap on the room's bed.

Re:I have to ask (2, Insightful)

squiggleslash (241428) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031395)

Or it's a little like a hotel manager banning you from his hotel after you took a crap on the room's bed.

Saverin has two points against him, thus far:

1. He co-created Facebook. Not a cure for cancer. Not an amazing new product that resulted in the net creation of jobs (I don't want to hear that Facebook employs people - sure it does, but so did the websites FB competed against. Job creation? nil.) But a privacy sucking website that was a mere incremental improvement on the sites it replaced.

2. He thinks the world owes him simply because that same world gave him a lot of moolah.

If Saverin wants to "Go Galt", let him. He's exactly the kind of whiny overpaid jackass that gives the super-rich a bad name.

There are many super rich assholes I have more respect for. Hell, even the Koch brothers can call themselves job creators with a straight face. The Facebook crew aren't even in the same ballpark.

Re:I have to ask (0)

multicoregeneral (2618207) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031401)

Just think about what this guy did. He created an industry, spawned jobs for millions, helped the feds track criminals more easily, and made a lot of money. Rather than kick him out of the country, they need to give him a freaking medal.

Re:I have to ask (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031475)

And all without any government assistance. He used not a single road, did not use the results of DARPA research to make his product exist nor did he ever expect police protection!

Oh wait, no he got all those things and now he does not want to pay for them. What a typical libertarian.

Sour Grapes (4, Insightful)

StikyPad (445176) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031173)

Capital gains are already due when you renounce your citizenship. Placing the burden of proof on someone to prove they aren't renouncing for tax purposes is ridiculous, and possibly unconstitutional. Why would I need a "valid" reason to renounce my citizenship? And adding a clause to bar the person from reentry for life is just petty. Blaming people for leaving when we have laws and policies they disagree with is pointing the finger in the wrong direction. Either we don't want those people here anyway, or else we're the problem.

Re:Sour Grapes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031339)

In most cases, that's quite true... and you would be correct. To go after the few who abuse the system, though is where we get silliness like this bill. Since politicians have big hammers to go after small nails (like this facebook guy, who clearly is doing his best to avoid taxes... seems pretty obvious, actually) we will never get anything out of this bill but fallout and false positives... and it won't affect Saverin at all.

I won't renounce my citizenship because I was born here. They'll have to pry my citizenship from my cold, dead fingers. :)

Re:Sour Grapes (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031411)

Capital gains are already due when you renounce your citizenship. Placing the burden of proof on someone to prove they aren't renouncing for tax purposes is ridiculous, and possibly unconstitutional. Why would I need a "valid" reason to renounce my citizenship?

You don't need a valid reason to renounce your citizenship.

OTOH, non-citizens have no general right of entry to the US, its a privilege granted to them by the citizens of the US. I can't really see any principle.

That said, to address this issue in law it would be simpler to just pass a law that renunciation of citizenship has no effect on tax liability (and, therefore, on civil and criminal liability for non-payment, evasion, etc.)

Re:Sour Grapes (2)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031423)

The capital gains due when he renounced his citizenship were based on the valuation of his assets at the time of his renunciation last Fall, as opposed to their value following the IPO. Since most people seem to be of the impression that Facebook's stock will increase in value, that means he stands to gain quite a bit since he won't have to pay any taxes based on the increase. I saw one estimate saying that if Facebook's stock doubles before he decides to sell, he'll be saving $600 million in taxes.

That said, I don't disagree with you. I think what he did is slimy, but I think it would be dangerous to try and enforce the sort of things they're talking about.

Purchasing tax loopholes would have been cheaper (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031181)

The senators are just angry because they didn't get their cut of the action.

I have nothing but contempt for tax cheats but (5, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031191)

Expatriates from every country have family, friends, and historical ties to the country they came from. Denying visitation for that reason is morally wrong. Moreover I'm universally opposed to bills of attainder and ex-post-facto laws. They were stupid and contemptible back during the ACORN stupidity, and they're still an unreasonable abuse of legislative power now. If this act applies in any way to Saverin, it would be an undermining of the rule of law.

Re:I have nothing but contempt for tax cheats but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031397)

I agree, ACORN was stupidity. They know that parts of them did many illegal things but actively tried to hide it. They cared more about the ends, then the means.

Re:I have nothing but contempt for tax cheats but (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031441)

Expatriates from every country have family, friends, and historical ties to the country they came from. Denying visitation for that reason is morally wrong.

When you sever ties in order to save a tiny fraction of your total wealth, you don't deserve consideration on moral grounds. He can pay for those people to travel to another country if he wishes to meet them.

As for ex-post facto, no, this is not an ex-post-facto law. No non-citizen/non-permanent resident has the right to enter the USA -- it is a privilege that can be revoked.

Re:I have nothing but contempt for tax cheats but (1)

medv4380 (1604309) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031517)

Unless they have a boat load of money in Capital Gains that they never paid taxes on, they won't be affected. People like Saverin who have no intention of paying taxes on their Capital Gains wouldn't be allowed back in, or they would be risking arrest as a tax dodger. Also this only affects Expatriates that renounce their citizenship. Expatriates just means that you're living in another country, and many of them still have their US Citizenship and still Vote.

Re:I have nothing but contempt for tax cheats but (3, Insightful)

squidflakes (905524) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031523)

Which is why this bill won't go anywhere. Hell, it hasn't even been introduced to committee according to the article. I agree with you that a bill designed as a spiteful measure has no place in our code of laws.

are we solving already solved problems once again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031257)

I'm not really sure what the big deal is. Yeah, we shouldn't let people dodge taxes like that, but this is a non issue. We've already got laws that handle this. When someone gives up their citizenship, they are required to pay taxes on the value of all assets as of the day they give up citizenship. And we've already got laws that permit denying future reapplications for citizenship. So I'm not sure what more you could reasonably ask.

how appropriate...captch is "absurd"

Exactly backwards (1)

sideslash (1865434) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031263)

The legislature should not be trying to build "walls" to keep people from leaving, but should rather work on making the USA a desirable place to live. If a few rich people expatriate, it's not the end of the world. I think bitter politicians like these Dem senators give the USA a bad image.

Guess Schumer didn't get the check (1)

Moonrazor (897598) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031267)

It's funny that Schumer, who campaigned AGAINST closing tax loopholes for "investment managers" in 2007 now is snarking against this guy for a similar dodge. Guess he didn't send a big enough check to Schumer's office before announcing his plan.

Why WOULD he come back? (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031271)

Why would he bother to come back? There are plenty of decent places to live in the world, especially when you have money.

Nation of immigrants (4, Insightful)

bkmoore (1910118) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031289)

As a nation of immigrants, I sometimes wish say China or another major country would try to pull the same thing with their citizens who have emigrated to the U.S. We would hear all kinds of politicians going high and right about human rights and violations of national sovereignty, etc.

One could argue that what FaceBook co-founder Eduardo Saverin did was unethical, but despite all of that, the right to emigrate and ex-patriate is a basic human right that is enshrined in U.S. and in international law. Punishing individuals who exercise a basic human right is by definition tyranny.

Re:Nation of immigrants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031457)

You're really suggesting that US politicians would go on a tear about human rights if China enacted legislation making it impossible for those who renounce their Chinese citizenship to return to the country?

That's the left for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40031295)

Before I emigrated, when I complained about high taxes and bloated socialism the left would tell me 'if you don't like it, leave!'.

When I told them I was emigrating they would tell me how evil I was for leaving and not staying there to pay high taxes to fund their wonderful government programs.

You just can't win.

Deep breath and...... (1)

Atomus (2500840) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031357)

"Ex-PATRIOT” – “Expatriation Prevention by Abolishing Tax-Related Incentives for Offshore Tenancy”

Holy smokes! I needed to catch my breath after saying that...

Senate Vs Individuals (2)

RearNakedChoke (1102093) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031419)

Would the damn Senate please GTFO of meddling in individual cases, please? Terry Schiavo, Eduardo Saverin? Dear useless fucking politicans, please address the problems of the HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of citizens first. And if you must legislate over 1 "person", do so for the fucking "corporations are people too my friend".

I hope he gets away with it (4, Interesting)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031459)

Not that I sympathize with this slimy tax-dodger, but I hope he gets away with it.

The value of his demonstration on how the rich view the world is worth more to the world (and the American public) than the taxes he owes. I don't want that demonstration stopped.

Seems fair (2)

OrangeTide (124937) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031489)

I don't see why we should ever approve visas to any naturalized citizen who renounces their citizenship.
I don't care about the tax reasons, that's a red herring as far as I'm concerned.
As far as I know, it was US policy in the past to refuse visas to ex-citizens, it's a good policy and we should continue to have it.

It is not a right for foreign nationals to visit the US, and visiting can be regulated with almost no restriction (I can't think of any limitations, maybe for diplomats)

US SR? (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#40031501)

This was done by the USSR, Jews wanted to leave for Israel? Not before you settled your debt which strangely non-jews just didn't seem to have.

Mind you, another version of it could be extremely radical. Any refugee from a country who goes back to that country on holiday, can stay there... instant end to economic refugee's.

This plan makes sense if you truly believe in the free market and capitalism. It is basically just one hotel saying that if you pay in another hotel, you can't sleep in their rooms. But who believes in the free market and capitalism anymore.

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