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'First Base' In Greek Courts For ISP-Level Blocking

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the thought-you-liked-it-that-way dept.

Piracy 86

arisvega writes "At a first level (the lowest court level in the Greek judiciary system) an order has been issued (article in Greek, Google translation is fair enough) for a 'plan on behalf of Internet Service Providers regarding he implementation of technological measures to deny access to internet users for webpages through which illegal copies of copyrighted work are being distributed.' The order seems to be general and descriptive, and is a manifestation of the implementation process for an even more general and vague larger-scale EU directive, which is the common source that caused the rulings recently posted on slashdot regarding the UK, the Netherlands and Finland. This appears to be one of the reasons that prompted Anonymous to launch defacing attacks on Greek government websites some three months back."

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Hew, hew, hew, hewwy hew! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055713)

Around a year ago, I was mindlessly surfing the internet (as I often do) when I came across an enigmatic web page. The page, which looked like a warning from my web browser, informed me that I had a virus installed on my computer and that to fix it, I should install a strange anti-virus program that I'd never heard of (which I found peculiar considering the fact that I already had anti-virus software installed on my computer). Despite having reservations about installing it, I did so anyway (since it appeared to be a legitimate warning).

I cannot even fathom what I was thinking at that time. Soon after attempting to install the so-called anti-virus software, my desktop background image changed into a large red warning sign, warnings about malware began making appearances all over the screen, and a strange program I'd never seen before began nagging me to buy a program to remove the viruses. What should have been obvious previously then became clear to me: that software was a virus. Frustrated by my own stupidity, I began tossing objects around the room and cursing at no one in particular.

After I calmed down, I reluctantly took my computer to a local PC repair shop and steeled myself for the incoming fee. When I entered, I noticed that there were four men working there, and all of them seemed incredibly nice (the shop itself was clean and stylish, too). After I described the situation to them, they gave me a big smile (as if they'd seen and heard it all before), accepted the job, and told me that the computer would be working like new again in a few days. At the time, I was confident that their words held a great degree of truth to them.

The very next day, while I was using a local library's computer and browsing the internet, I came across a website dedicated to a certain piece of software. It claimed that it could fix up my PC and make it run like new again. I knew, right then, merely from viewing a single page on the website, that it was telling the truth. I cursed myself for not discovering this excellent piece of software before I had taken my PC to the PC repair shop. "It would've saved me money. Oh, well. I'm sure they'll get the job done just fine. I can always use this software in the future to conserve money." Those were my honest thoughts at the time.

Two days later, my phone rang after I returned home from work. I immediately was able to identify the number: it was the PC repair shop's phone number. Once I answered, something strange occurred; the one on the other end of the line spoke, in a small, tormented voice, "Return. Return. Return. Return. Return." No matter what I said to him, he would not stop repeating that one word. Unsettled by this odd occurrence, I traveled to the PC repair shop to find out exactly what happened.

Upon arriving inside the building, I looked upon the shop, which was a shadow of its former self, in shock. There were countless wires all over the floor, smashed computer parts scattered in every direction I looked, fallen shelves on the ground, desks flipped over on the ground, and, to make matters even worse, there was blood splattered all over the wall. Being the reasonable, upstanding, college-educated citizen that I was, I immediately concluded that the current state of the shop was due to none other than an employee's stress from work. I looked around a bit more, spotted three bodies sitting against the wall, and in the middle of the room, I spotted my computer. "Ah. There it is." Directly next to it was the shop's owner, sitting on the ground in the fetal position.

When I questioned him, he kept repeating a single thing again and again: "Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped!" I could not get him to tell me what was wrong, but after a bit of pondering, I quickly figured out precisely what happened: they were unable to fix my computer like they had promised. Disgusted by their failure, I turned to the shop's owner (who I now noticed had a gun to his head), and spat in his general direction. I then turned my back to him as if I was attempting to say that nothing behind me was worth my attention, and said to him, "Pathetic. Absolutely, positively pathetic. I asked you to do a single thing for me, and yet you failed even at that. Were I you, I'd be disgusted by myself, and I'd probably even take my own life. Such a worthless existence isn't even worthy of receiving my gaze!"

After saying that, I left the shop with my computer as if absolutely nothing had occurred there. And, indeed, there was nothing in that shop that was worthy of my attention. Still understandably disgusted by their inability to fulfill the promise, I said to myself, "I'll have to take this into my own hands." After getting into my car to drive home, I heard a gun shot from inside the repair shop. Being that it originated from the worthless owner of that shop, I promptly decided to ignore it.

Once I returned home, I, filled to the brim with confidence, immediately installed the software that I'd found a few days ago: MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . The results were exactly what I expected, and yet, I was still absolutely in awe of MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] wonderful performance. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] removed every last virus from my computer in the span of a few seconds. I simply couldn't believe it; MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] accomplished in moments what "professionals" had failed to accomplish after days of work!

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed!

If you're having computer troubles, I highly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . Don't rely on worthless "professionals" to fix up your PC! Use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] if you want your PC to be overclocking, if you want your gigabits to be zippin' and zoomin', and if you want your PC to be virus-free.

Even if you aren't having any visible problems with your PC, I still wholeheartedly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . You could still be infected by a virus that isn't directly visible to you, and MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will fix that right up. What do you have to lose? In addition to fixing any problems, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will, of course, speed up all of your gigabits until every component on your PC is overclocking like new!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

Re:Hew, hew, hew, hewwy hew! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40057047)

You idiot, if you're going to spam slashdot you have to ensure your links are early enough to show before the cropping limit, or else no one at all will end up seeing the links regardless of moderation filtering.

Re:Hew, hew, hew, hewwy hew! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40069883)

agreed.. although, IMHO anybody that's that incredibly dumb so as to OK drive by installers is way too thick to be on /. anyways, It's a giveaway in that first sentence..

What happened to austerity measures? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055733)

For a country that is in economic turmoil and instituting extensive austerity measures, would it not make sense for these (presumably expensive) 'less urgent civil-type proceedings' to be dropped from the court system. Sure, the *IAA may be able to make a good case for why these rules (and court cases) are needed, but when you have many people going hungry and people setting themselves on fire on the streets, Greece has to ask itself where its priorities are.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (3, Interesting)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055765)

That's a bit silly. It's like telling a kid who has terminal cancer he doesn't need to carry on going to school because there's no point. Cancer kids and Greece have a right to fully functional lives.

There is another issue: if people knew **AA shenanigans could be put on hold if their country was in dire straights, that would be reason enough for people to demand that the government bankrupt the country. Just for the joy of sticking it up the **AAs' collective ass, ya know...

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055921)

The no-school argument actually makes some sense. If a kid is going to die in a year, school really serves no purpose. Why not make it optional, and at least let him enjoy the time he has left more? It isn't as if he needs to study for a career.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (0)

arth1 (260657) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056021)

The no-school argument actually makes some sense. If a kid is going to die in a year, school really serves no purpose. Why not make it optional, and at least let him enjoy the time he has left more? It isn't as if he needs to study for a career.

Here in the US, the answer is "litigation". If the cancer by a long chance is arrested or cured, and he grows up without a full education, his parents will likely sue the state for millions.
And get it. Even if it was their idea and choice.

Even if he is dying, some parents might sue over discrimination, allegedly because of their kid being treated differently, but in reality to get money. Nothing like little cancer sick Billy on the stand to get a jury to award big money.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056535)

Yeah, well you've got a lot of problems over there.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

MacGyver2210 (1053110) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056623)

The parents will not win a lawsuit against the government for decisions they themselves made, and again, it would be the parents'/child's option. Not saying kick them out of school, just no reason to force them to go.

If I were 10 and dying of cancer, I would sure as hell rather play at parks and go to Sea World and Disneyland and shit than go to school and learn about basic math and 15th-century history.

Saying that "the government could be sued" over this is exactly what is wrong with this fucking country. Anyone who sues someone for a reason that is of their own doing should be shot in the fucking face - cancer notwithstanding. Then again, I also think people who have diseases from drug abuse such as kidney/liver failure from drinking, lung cancer from smoking, hep-_ from shooting up, etc should be completely denied medical care. You made your bed, now die in it. /pissed-off rant

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

travbrad (622986) | more than 2 years ago | (#40059063)

"Then again, I also think people who have diseases from drug abuse such as kidney/liver failure from drinking, lung cancer from smoking, hep-_ from shooting up, etc should be completely denied medical care. You made your bed, now die in it."

Interesting that you didn't include obesity and lack of exercise. That is arguably causing a lot more illness and costs to the healthcare system than drinking and drug use, and like alcohol/drugs it is down the responsibility of the individual.

The other issue is that it's nearly impossible to prove an illness/disease was caused by 1 specific activity. Lung cancer rates are much higher among smokers, but when you get down to the individual level it's very hard to prove (a certain number of people were going to get lung cancer anyway).

You also have to decide how much is too much (or a zero tolerance policy). If someone smoked a couple cigarettes when they were 16 should they be denied healthcare for the rest of their life? If that's the case there is virtually no one who would be eligible for healthcare.

How about someone who smoked for a couple months? A couple years? How about someone who smoked a couple cigarettes a year for their whole life (at new years or whatever)?

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056243)

If a kid is going to die in a year, school really serves no purpose.

Your grades don't matter, but if you're in school age then school is where all your friends are. Sure if you'd take time off to go to Disney World that's fine but I think being at home playing all by yourself would just make life seem even less meaningful. I don't know as it's a pretty horrible situation to be in but I think I'd try to maintain normality for as long as possible to stave off the gloom and doom of what's coming. I do feel I'm applying a different standard than I would to myself though, because I'd pretty instantly take leave/resign from my job to do something else than work. Not exactly sure what that'd be, but it wouldn't be sitting at the office...

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (2)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055941)

Comparing piracy to childhood cancer, that's pretty low.

Be real : Greece doesn't need this now, they first need to get back on their feet.
There is nothing copyright groups can achieve by this : if you don't have enough to buy food, you are not going to buy music/videos just because you can't pirate them.

I suspect a different reason : using the 'piracy' excuse to block websites, it opens the door for blocking any website. For example any website which provides a dissident voice to the government, or is used announce protests/rallies , etc... As the country is in chaos, they will have no problem doing this, and the EU will turn a blind eye on this one, as it suits them well.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (3, Insightful)

gnasher719 (869701) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056019)

Comparing piracy to childhood cancer, that's pretty low.

He wasn't comparing piracy and childhood cancer. He was comparing the state of the greek economy with childhood cancer. There's a chance of survival, put it is a painful and frightening experience.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

kdemetter (965669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056753)

You are right. Mixed up the analogy.
Sorry about that, I guess I shouldn't comment before I am completely awake.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (3, Interesting)

buchner.johannes (1139593) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055793)

The EU works like this: ministers from all countries come together and decide on certain directives -- a description of how the laws of all countries should behave. Then they make a contract on behalf of their country with each other to adjust the laws of their country to adhere to this standard.
The contracts say that you have a certain time for implementation, and whoever doesn't implement the law is being fined (there is a chain of measures, which you can also appeal to).

Since Greece agreed to the contract, they have to implement it.

With the (expensive) data retention directive -- which has been ruled unjustified in some countries already -- countries have a chance to make a good case to the EU for rejecting it. But then the directive has to be overruled and the contracts have to be cancelled in some way -- ideally without anyone losing face.

When the ministers agree a directive would be a good idea to implement, and then when it's time to implement the consensus is that the directive is a bad idea, the blame has to go somewhere. Usually the ministers make themselves small in the country, and everyone blames the EU for imposing bad laws on the innocent countries -- disregarding that the countries agreed to the very same law and made a specific contract with each other.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055831)

I notice something you never mentioned in the process - citizens voting. Presumably this is because the entire process is antidemocratic.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055903)

EU countries are democracies. The citizens vote in representatives, who in the end vote to decide what the country will do. A bad system if you ask me, but at least it limits the bad choices of the citizenry to once every few years.

Just because you don't like it doesn't makes it antidemocratic.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056833)

Actually those representatives can't do much : they don't have legislative iniative ( they can't create laws ) , they can only reject, amend or propose legislation

Only the European Commission can do that, and the members of this commission are not elected by the people, but proposed by the European Commision , and elected by the European Parliament.

Simply put : if you don't like the laws the EU is making , you can't punish the lawmakers for it, because you can't elect them.

Also, while the European Parliament can block laws being passed by the European Commission , how like are they going to do that, knowing that they lose all chance of ever being proposed to join the European Commission.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

dkf (304284) | more than 2 years ago | (#40057143)

Actually those representatives can't do much : they don't have legislative iniative ( they can't create laws ) , they can only reject, amend or propose legislation

In your haste to vent, you've neglected to mention the Council of Ministers, which is absolutely the most powerful of the lot since nothing happens without their approval. (The Council is made up of the relevant national elected representatives of each member state in the relevant area; e.g., for agricultural business, it is made up of agriculture ministers.) Since they have the power to kill any proposal stone dead, the Commission always tries to make sure they're happy before bringing any proposed directives forward for approval; they don't try nearly so hard to keep the Parliament happy.

The real process is one of eternal tedious discussion until everyone in the Council agrees to vote for a proposal brought forward by the Commission (though sometimes a population-weighted majority vote is enough, it is common practice to try for unanimity). This makes decision-taking very slow, especially when some states are particularly intransigent on some topic (witness the Greek crisis, which has a lot of its roots in the inability for EU states to agree on anything rapidly).

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

antientropic (447787) | more than 2 years ago | (#40058391)

Actually those representatives can't do much : they don't have legislative iniative ( they can't create laws ) , they can only reject, amend or propose legislation

Which means they can do a lot - if the EP doesn't like it, it doesn't become law. Having the right to initiative would be great, but lack of it doesn't make the EP powerless (especially since they can (try to) amend proposals in the co-decision procedure).

Only the European Commission can do that, and the members of this commission are not elected by the people, but proposed by the European Commision , and elected by the European Parliament.

Simply put : if you don't like the laws the EU is making , you can't punish the lawmakers for it, because you can't elect them.

If national governments or the EP don't like what the Commision is doing, they can refrain from giving them a second term. Also, the EP can dismiss the Commission (and has done so in the past [wikipedia.org] ).

Also, while the European Parliament can block laws being passed by the European Commission , how like are they going to do that, knowing that they lose all chance of ever being proposed to join the European Commission.

What a strange thing to say. Do you have any example of this? It's not even plausible - Commissioners are nominated by national governments, so if an MEP makes himself popular at home by blocking some legislation, why wouldn't they nominate him?

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

antientropic (447787) | more than 2 years ago | (#40058273)

Why is it undemocratic? The Council of the European Union has a democratic mandate because they're representatives of democratically elected governments (and can be sent home by voters if they don't approve), and more importantly, directives have to be approved by the European Parliament, who are elected directly. (Obligatory link [wikipedia.org] )

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (3, Insightful)

Kjella (173770) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056131)

Well, first of all your process better describes the EU under the previous Maastricht Treaty than under the current Lisbon Treaty that came into effect in 2009. Now both the European Commission and the European Parliament - which is voted in directly - has to approve of directives. Secondly, there is a problem here with time. For example here in Norway we're required to implement the Data Retention Directive that was passed in the EU in 2006 but we still haven't done it. And no matter how much we vote now for different politicians and new ministers it's impossible for us to get out of this agreement. Our own parliament has been effectively neutered so it can't actually do anything. If the government passes a bad law, we can elect a new government and change the law. If they agree to a bad EU directive, we're fucked.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

davester666 (731373) | more than 2 years ago | (#40057749)

Hey, Germany knows what's best for you. Just lie back and enjoy it.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

arisvega (1414195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40070901)

For example here in Norway we're required to implement the Data Retention Directive that was passed in the EU in 2006

How so? Norway is not in the EU.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (2)

Znork (31774) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055929)

If anything, invalidating intellectual property laws is a good way to increase competitiveness, something that Greece needs badly. It's also a very cheap and painless way to go about it.

It's not random chance that economies like China or India that don't cater as much to the monopoly damage of IPR tend to grow much faster. The odd thing is that many supposedly free-market proponents actually seem to believe that implementing what is in effect a significant private taxation system on the economy is somehow going be beneficial.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056553)

It's not random chance that economies like China or India that don't cater as much to the monopoly damage of IPR tend to grow much faster.

Yes it is.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

arisvega (1414195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40070919)

It's not random chance that economies like China or India that don't cater as much to the monopoly damage of IPR tend to grow much faster.

Yes it is.

Why?

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056967)

It's not random. They are copying us - thus they don't want IP laws (China more so then anyone else.).

Brazil, India and China's is based on convergence. Get the basics right (education, infrastructure, workable business law & regulations), then all you have to do is copy what the west has already done. The majority of China's growth is not sexy - it's basic industrialization that the west has already done.

Now, jump forward 0 to 40 years depending on the industry.In order to grow China et. al will have to innovate in order to grow. All of the easy copying will have been done. Which means pouring huge amounts of dollars into R&D. I don't think China would look kindly on other people using that R&D.

Re:What happened to austerity measures? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40057121)

If you read Naomi Kline's Shock Doctrine you would understand.

Radical capitalists realise the only way to get change through is during times of disaster. It just so happens that the GFC is a brilliant opportunity to dismantle 'socialist' Europe. Almost as if it had been done on purpose...

Platform judiciary system (3, Funny)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055739)

At a first level (the lowest court level in the Greek judiciary system) an order has been issued

At the last level, you have to kill a boss and say "I'll rip your head off and shit down your neck" to win the court case.

EU's anti-democratic face (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055747)

This is the most blatant expression of EU's anti-democratic face.

The Council is just a bunch of bureaucrats, removed from the constituents by two- to three levels of administria, who feel most cozy with all those lobbyists buying laws from them.

Re:EU's anti-democratic face (5, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055773)

You just noticed? How quaint.

I have news for you: in pretty much every country, politicos and powers-that-be mostly care about (1) lining their pockets and (2) being reelected to carry on lining their pockets for a few more years. Oh and yes, a sizable bunch of them also get off on power and control, and seeing their own faces on TV. At any rate, precious few care about their constituents...

Re:EU's anti-democratic face (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056303)

Cynicist be gone!

Re:EU's anti-democratic face (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40057185)

No. The "general principle" as you state it is well-known. Still, there are different abo^H^H^Hincarnations. The EU Council is one of the especially evil kind.

And yes, I still think it's good to get worked up about that and from time to time to even try doing something about it.

Winston, are you listening?!? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055771)

ISP Level blocking in China or arab spring countries: BAD BAD BAD
ISP Level blocking in Europe: WE LOVE IT. ++good..

Re:Winston, are you listening?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40057905)

Until I saw the "++good", I thought you were invoking Winston Churchill.

Internet censoring (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055809)

What we see here is the way they are going to censor the Internet for when they go back to the dracma(people is going to loose a lot of money and is not going to be pretty).

Which directive? (2)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055817)

"The order seems to be general and descriptive, and is a manifestation of the implementation process for an even more general and vague larger-scale EU directive, which is the common source that caused the rulings recently posted on slashdot regarding the UK, the Netherlands and Finland."

Can anyone point to the larger-scale EU directive referred to in the summary? I've missed the news on any such directive having been passed. To date I was under the impression at EU level, all such directives have been in quite the opposite direction so I'd be intrigued to see where this one came from.

Re:Which directive? (1)

lennier1 (264730) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055871)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Retention_Directive [wikipedia.org]

This and similar attempts are one of the main contributing factors to the support for local Pirate Party chapters in several EU nations.

Re:Which directive? (1)

Xest (935314) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055917)

This doesn't say anything about web blocking though? It's just about data retention?

Re:Which directive? (1)

lennier1 (264730) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055967)

Because that's just one of several.
Basically, because several governments couldn't establish stuff like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugangserschwerungsgesetz [wikipedia.org] on a national level under the guise of terrorists/drugs/aliens/ponies/kiddie porn they're now using the the EU level to push through directives like above, active participation in ACTA/TRIPS or they just take a chance and simply enact bullshit taken straight from this week's MAFIAA newsletter (e.g. Spain).

Re:Which directive? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056561)

Greek law article mentioned [wikisource.org]

references this directive (2001/29/EK or 2001/29/EC):

2001/29/EC [europa.eu]

I'm no lawyer though...

Only geeks will save the Greeks! (1)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055843)

Along with the rest of us. it is pretty obvious that the cartels are gonna take the Internet and turn it into a home shopping network. Of course the politicians will be happy to do this because not only will they get to cash some MAFIAA checks but after the Arab Springs they are naturally afraid that some tea party or occupy style movement might actually get all the screwed over public to demand they do more than bullshit and cash checks.

So what we need here isn't public outcry, we have seen how worthless that is. They will just sit and wait for the public to get tired and then cash the checks and do it anyway so that just doesn't work. What we need is more work on projects like Freenet and Tor so that we can simply bypass the Internet proper, otherwise the net is gonna end up nothing but astroturf and shopping channels.

What is sad to me is that the west is frankly becoming as much of a shitty, controlling, nasty, elite controlled craphole as the old USSR was. Kinda sad that we survived the cold war only to become the thing we were fighting against.

Re:Only geeks will save the Greeks! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055897)

.. otherwise the net is gonna end up nothing but astroturf and shopping channels.

Since Google messed up their search results to supposedly reduce bogus results, I notice that search results are actually much less useful and return more shopping crap and other spurious marketing junk.

Re:Only geeks will save the Greeks! (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056047)

Since Google messed up their search results to supposedly reduce bogus results, I notice that search results are actually much less useful and return more shopping crap and other spurious marketing junk.

It's not only me who has noticed that, then?
Where we used to find wikipedia and real articles at or near the top, there's now pages up and down with shopping results for anything that could possibly resemble the search term. And it suddenly got far worse after the latest overhaul.

With the dumbing down of the search line for iFolks, with quotes, plus and minus no longer doing what they did, it's really hard to avoid it.

In Google's world, it would be ideal if only advertisers and potential advertisers could be found. With the former on top, and the latter getting automated e-mails showing how many people didn't see them in the search results because they haven't paid the bridge troll.

Re:Only geeks will save the Greeks! (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056155)

It was one of the reasons I switched to DuckDuckGo. The zero-click box at the top usually contains the wikipedia article and a few other relevant links (e.g. code search results, IMDB), and the rest of the results are about as relevant as Google's are now, although not as good as Google's were a few years ago.

Re:Only geeks will save the Greeks! (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056615)

I thought results like "Shop for great deals on non-specific urethritis!" and "Find best prices for erectile dysfunction" had been around forever.

Those are just examples. Purely hypothetical. Honest.

First Base (3, Interesting)

DerCed (155038) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055869)

Idiomatic expressions like "First Base" are unfortunate for international readers. Oh, wait, I forgot we don't actually have editors. I'll retract my criticism.

Re:First Base (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055911)

I agree. Anybody care to explain what "first base" means?

Re:First Base (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056003)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_metaphors_for_sex

First base – mouth-to-mouth kissing, especially open mouth ("French") kissing involving the tongue.

Re:First Base (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056061)

I have lived in the US for thirteen years now, and had no idea that "first base" meant kissing.
So yes, using baseball metaphors might not be a good idea..

Re:First Base (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056139)

I have lived in the US for thirteen years now, and had no idea that "first base" meant kissing. So yes, using baseball metaphors might not be a good idea..

No, you need to finally go out on a date.

But don't worry. Thirteen years old is about normal for most kids.

Re:First Base (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40059367)

What is baseball?

Re:First Base (1)

Wandering Voice (2267950) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056691)

It's a polite way of using another slang phrase, 'Rim Job'.

Re:First Base (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#40057745)

No, I think that's called "thrown out trying to steal third".

Re:First Base (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055925)

Oh come on, you don't have to be from the US to imagine a Greek judge making out with a music executive.

Re:First Base (1)

arth1 (260657) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056065)

You're begging the question.

See, to even think about "making out" you have to already know that it's related to making out.

Re:First Base (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#40057723)

I'm not begging the question, I'm making a joke.

Not every post on slashdot requires you to to try to apply your favorite logical fallacy, you know :)

And besides - as CmdrTaco used to say whenever people whined about this sort of thing - this is a US-based site. As such it sometimes focuses on American technology and politics. And it inherently uses American English idiom, so get over it.

And to even think about making out you have to already know what "making out" means. (hmm, I meant that as another example of American English idiom, but I suppose it could be taken as the usual slashdot commentary...)

Re:First Base (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40057971)

You're begging the question.

See, to even think about "making out" you have to already know that it's related to making out.

I learned the meaning of "making out" from playing the sims. I expected it would mean "ending the relation", as in Dutch "uit maken" has that meaning.

Re:First Base (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055931)

"Unfortunate" in which way? I, for one, was rather confused over what does making out have to do with Internet censorship.

Re:First Base (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055951)

I have no idea what making out, copyright and the military have in common. Someone care to explain?

Re:First Base (1)

Pubstar (2525396) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055963)

Unless they're from Japan. Then they would get it.

Not that hard to figure out (1)

aepervius (535155) | more than 2 years ago | (#40055989)

But I have to wonder what kissing/making out has to do with ISP blocking web site.

American Readers, Not International (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056415)

I think you'll find that only applies to American readers, not international readers. You do understand that "First Base" means nothing to people outside the US?

First base in itself is just confusing, first level would be a better description for this article.

Re:American Readers, Not International (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056765)

You do understand that "First Base" means nothing to people outside the US?

Oh bullshit. The world is much more aware of American idioms and customs than Americans are of anyone else's.

Re:American Readers, Not International (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#40057777)

Just as your entire post means nothing to people who don't speak English, big deal.

No matter what language you speak, you inherently use idiom all the time. So, hey, you learned a new one today! Congrats.

That's if ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40055885)

.. this ever gets implemented. Even clear, unambiguous laws passed by Parliament for implementation by government departments take *years* to trickle down to local offices because the Greek system is so inefficient. And then there seems to be no such thing as an "unambiguous" in Greece. Greeks debate and argue everything. They argue vociferously with traffic cops giving tickets for 10 or 20 minutes in a manner that would have you thrown in jail in other Western countries. Greeks are enormously file of file sharing. Many people have enormous collections of pirated mp3s, movies and software.

And Greece has a civil law system in which rulings don't necessarily set precedents in the same manner of common law systems. Will other courts follow this ruling or it will it be ignored? Greek lawyers please inform us.

Re:That's if ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056721)

Even clear, unambiguous laws passed by Parliament for implementation by government departments take *years* to trickle down to local offices because the Greek system is so inefficient. And then there seems to be no such thing as an "unambiguous" in Greece. Greeks debate and argue everything. They argue vociferously with traffic cops giving tickets for 10 or 20 minutes in a manner that would have you thrown in jail in other Western countries.

And every few years they have to go cap in hand to the Germans.

You know that shabby guy who always comes straight out of the payday loan place and into the bar? If he was a country, he'd be Greece.

Pass evil laws when the people are down (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056013)

I see the usual pattern of passing evil laws / precedents when the people are too busy worrying about something else (say, like food and the roof over their heads). As the economic crisis in Greece continue to unfold, expect more unjust but relatively minor (from a purely survival point of view) laws to be passed, simply because the people don't care. It's okay if you take away some of our rights so long as we get food on the dinner table

Re:Pass evil laws when the people are down (1)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056305)

Greece doesn't have precedent law, this is a judgement based on an earlier law.

Not the first by any means (1)

giorgist (1208992) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056023)

The last paragraph simply states "similar decisions have been implemented by other member states that protect intellectual rights without restricting user rights "

In any event, it is simply an arms war ... any child in primary/high school knows how to get around blocking Facebook and other sites. So effectively the message is

"Good luck with that"

In fact the funniest part of the whole thing is that it appears that the public with their vote is actually pressuring governments to let them pirate, hence the last bit in that sentence. I wonder how the various RIAA will fight that ? Any wins are very short term.

Going back to the dark ages (1)

morbingoodkid (562128) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056141)

Don't you guys get the feeling that we are moving backwards.

Instead of embracing new technology we try and kill it.

What really sadens me is that copying is such a fundamendal part of our human existence without it none of us would be able to survive. We cannot even learn language without copying. Now we want to artificialy control it.

Interesting but sad.

Greece is out of the Euro, maybe the EU is next? (2)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#40056259)

Greece is out of the Euro. Whenever so many politicians say, "We would like for Greece to stay in the Euro, but . . . ", they are really just wiggling around the truth a bit. It is similar when they say they all want peace, when the tanks are already rolling.

The whole matter is going to be rather unpleasant for all parties involved. And even for those not involved. The EU taxpayers (especially in France and Germany) will lose billions. The Greeks will need to readjust their wages to be internationally competitive again. In other words, right now they cost way more than they are worth. See "The Economist" for details on this: www.economist.com .

So leaving the Euro, will also mean repudiating international debts to fund the new Drachma. And nationalizing industries, including foreign owned ones. This has all been threaten by Alexis Tsipras, leader of the radical left Syriza party, who will probably end up leading Greece after the elections next month. The Greeks can't bear the austerity measures any more. They want the Euro, but they can't afford the cost of staying in. Unfortunately for the Greeks, they don't realize that things will be worse with the Drachma, because the government will have no money to pay them. Since the foreign banks won't lend them any more money, they will just have to print more, causing inflation, and making the currency worthless on the international market.

So what will they care about claims of piracy? Go ahead and try to collect any money from them. The simply will not be able to pay.

This is all not going to sit well with the rest of the EU. The repudiation of debts will lead to private law suits, and Greece will find itself afoul of EU laws. So a bigger danger, is if they will be able to stay in the EU itself any longer.

So this legal issue is just like "fireflies before the storm," when compared what is to come.

Greece Is Not Out Of The Euro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056427)

Greece is in the Euro, for good, there is no doubt as far as the leaders of France and Germany are concerned. This is their goal and what they paid for.

The Greek people themselves also want to stay in the Euro.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18115664 [bbc.co.uk]

Your speculation is far from certain.

Re:Greece Is Not Out Of The Euro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40057139)

The Greek people want it all their own way though. They want to stay in the Euro but not honour their financial obligations or deal with the financial problem that the governments they have voted for have got them into.
If they won't pay their debts, then it is time for them to leave the Euro. To leave the Euro they must first leave the EU, as there is no other method for leaving the Euro.
Good riddance.

Re:Greece Is Not Out Of The Euro (2)

arisvega (1414195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40057931)

To leave the Euro they must first leave the EU, as there is no other method for leaving the Euro.

You got yourself confused- I wont even link wikipedia because it is trivial to click a bit, read and see for yourself that the Eurozone, the Euro, and the EU are not connected the way you might think.

E.g. an area may use the Euro without being part of the Eurozone and/or the EU; a country may be part of the EU without being in the Eurozone; a country may have special trading agreements with EU countries without using the Euro OR being in the Eurozone, or without even being a member of EU; and perhaps a few other details that I don't really have the time now to check on your behalf.

A major reason why Greece won't just "leave the EU" is because it is one of the community's oldest members (1981), back from the 'veto days', where EVERY member state had veto powers. Also, "leaving the Euro" is not an option, since if this happens fingers can be pointed saying "see? It didn't work. The Euro didn't work": no technocrats upstrairs want this to happen.

Re:Greece Is Not Out Of The Euro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40058027)

Long but informative point of view post follows...

Contrary to popular belief, there is no mechanism to eject a member of the Euro out of the currency union, unless the member wants to get out. Even then, there are a lot of problems to solve, since there are no discreet currencies anymore. As for Greeks honoring their financial obligations, it's quite optimistic to be pushing a country towards recession and expecting to get paid...

What about all the bailout money you might ask? Well, only one fourth of it entered Greece, the rest went to repay old debt, i.e. to the lender countries' banks (that's one big misconception, nobody has been helping Greece all this time, they are bailing out their own banks!) Even the percentage that did enter the Greek banks, never got allocated to the real economy, but was used as collateral from the Greek banks towards the European Central Bank (ECB) to better their financial standings...

But, what about the recent default-that-is-not-a-real-default? The biggest losses belong to the Greek state, since a huge percentage of the restructured debt belongs to the Greek public insurance funds, that someone will sooner or later have to fund in order to cover the losses! Back to square one...

Each country has its own problems, Greece is unorganized. Always has been, even in ancient times. The only way to organize Greeks is to persuade them or present them with an external threat. Being starved is not a way to be persuaded towards a goal. Greeks also have a proud history of not doing what logic dictates; when faced with an external threat they tend to go against the odds (you can use this as a prediction for the upcoming Greek elections).

Of course Greek people are not blameless. When you import most things, money has to come from somewhere and this means borrowing. Everybody knew that, but few cared. Even so, with all the mismanagement and spending, Greece was able to refinance and keep paying its debts, without defaulting or restructuring. What changed now?

The elephant in the room is that this is a Euro crisis, not a Greek crisis.

Please, do read about the economies of Ireland, Spain and Portugal. Then compare them with the economy of Greece. Then take a look at Italy, France, Austria, the Netherlands. These are all different economies that are taking or starting to take a beating. The reason is simple if you go past assigning blame; Euro has a central bank without the ability to protect its own currency. Member countries welcomed the Euro and just hoped that when difficult times came, far in the future preferably, someone else will have made all the necessary adjustments for it to be viable. Nobody did and here we are.

Put simply, you can't have a common currency but discreet debt between countries, as you enlarge instead of diminish the differences between the various economies. The ECB needs to be able to vouch for Euro members' debt and refinance if necessary. Either the Eurozone integrates furthers (good luck convincing the Germans to let go of their banks' special treatment towards their export industry) or the Euro will fail. The consequences of the latter will not be nice for any country, Greek Drachma and Deutsche Mark economies included. The world is not the same place as it was before the Euro and that is true for everybody.

Disclaimer; I live in Greece, feel free to ignore everything above if it does not fit your preconceptions. But do think for a moment; if it was simple to allow Greece (or Ireland, or Portugal, or ...) to fail, an excuse would have been found (European solidarity be damned) and everyone would be along their own merry or not so merry way.

Re:Greece is out of the Euro, maybe the EU is next (1)

JimCanuck (2474366) | more than 2 years ago | (#40058581)

Unfortunately for the Greeks, they don't realize that things will be worse with the Drachma, because the government will have no money to pay them. Since the foreign banks won't lend them any more money, they will just have to print more, causing inflation, and making the currency worthless on the international market.

Your forgetting something very important, something Tsipras understands better then you do. If Greece as one of the oldest EU members, drops out of the Eurozone, it will push more people to do the same.

Fact is the way the Euro dollar was introduced was flawed from the start, having a pan-European currency and everyone's prices regulated to make them equal, and yet wages were never adjusted, nor was the conversion between the various currencies and the Euro to make things more evenly adjusted.

The Greek drachma was valued at 350 drachmas to the Euro dollar, people kept the same wages based on this conversion, so were their pensions, making Greece the lowest paid country in the Eurozone, and yet, the prices for the basics such as food were standardized under the law, which meant selling food for less then what was regulated was illegal and many got punished for it at the start of the Euro dollar. So a German making a average of 45,000 Euros a year has nearly the same cost of living as the Greek average of 23,000 Euros.

A cup of coffee in Greece before the Euro, was 80 drachmas, with the introduction of the Euro and the regulations to level prices, it became 1 Euro, or 350 drachmas, or 4 times the cost over night, without any kind of government method to allow people to deal with this jump in prices.

Beyond the costs of living jump, one must remember that the Germans and the French stood to profit the most from the loans the smaller governments were taking out. When the Greek PM "started" this entire "problem", it was not to ask for money, but to ask for a lower interest rate. A interest rate that between Eurozone countries was to be prime, and yet at the time the prime was 2%, and German and French government loans and private investment loans undersigned by both of those governments to Greece were at 6%, all he asked for was 4%, not bail out money, not support, just a interest rate that was still above what was the initial Euro agreements for. Only when the PM made the German parliament look like idiots over this did Germany start talking about "bail outs".

Fact is, unlike the then PM, Tsipras knows that he can push the Eurozone and actually get what is best for Greece, they wont allow Greece to drop the Euro dollar and all of this "push Greece out" talk is thin threats, the kind of threats that the former PM bowed down to, and accepted a worse faith then just economic collapse, a faith of being pushed down and kept down by the people who have meddled into Greek political affairs constantly for the last 200 years. If Greece leaves the Euro so will others, so far since before the introduction of the Euro, Greek politicians only cared about lining their pockets, and it is easiest when your a "yes man" to the people willing to give you the money.

Tsipras may be somewhat foolish playing a game of poker, but he isn't the one bluffing at the moment.

Re:Greece is out of the Euro, maybe the EU is next (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40064329)

Oh! Are we making facts up now?

Fact is, Greece needs to get its shit together. They are a bunch of tax dodgers and panhandlers.
Fact is, they will need to give up entitlements in order to get their debt under control
Fact is, they are fucked. Their populace will not accept a drop in government services, they also will not fund it.

Fact is, I spent just as much time and backed the above with just as many 'facts' as you did.

Re:Greece is out of the Euro, maybe the EU is next (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40062181)

See "The Economist" for details on this: www.economist.com .

"The Economist" is not exactly a beacon of objectivity. They've been trashing the eurozone any way they can for years.

Re:Greece is out of the Euro, maybe the EU is next (1)

cpt_koloth (688593) | more than 2 years ago | (#40062531)

Unfortunately for the Greeks, they don't realize that things will be worse with the Drachma, because the government will have no money to pay them. Since the foreign banks won't lend them any more money, they will just have to print more, causing inflation, and making the currency worthless on the international market.

You are buying right into goverment & systemic propaganda, 100% of the money in the assistance package go to the banks and for repaying the debt. Salaries and pensions have for years being paid by tax money and other income. All these years the borrowed money was channeled to banks and dubious private investments. The fear of being unable to pay public sector salaries and pesion is fueled by the goverment and the ruling class in order to limit resistance towards the austerity measures.

here we go (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40056569)

greeks are gonna not allow this mark my words and its an attempt to cut off communications when they fake and steal the election and hten no one knows what happened

Is this really a priority for Greece right now? (1)

php_krisp (858209) | more than 2 years ago | (#40057291)

Okay - I barely ever post... but I saw this and just thought... "Really?" With the current Eurozone crisis, the fact that Greece have practically already defaulted on their debts, and the ever increasing likely hood that they will exit the Euro, is this really something which they should be working on? Personally, I'd just like to see them put a little bit more effort into reclaiming the billions of Euro in taxes owed due to a majority who aren't declaring their income... Just my 2 (euro)cents...

Remember what happened in Haiti. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40058141)

Short term payouts aren't worth long term loss of EVERYTHING.

Next elections (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40059739)

...time to vote for the Pirate Party of Greece: http://www.pirateparty.gr/

A Red Herring (1)

SoothingMist (1517119) | more than 2 years ago | (#40063579)

Given the fundamental financial issues Greece faces, it is amazing they would fall for the red herring offered by RIA and others.
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