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Sci-fi Writer Elizabeth Moon Believes Everyone Should Be Chipped

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the i'm-sorry-have-you-met-humanity dept.

Privacy 409

Bob the Super Hamste writes "The BBC has an opinion piece from science fiction writer Elizabeth Moon who believes that everyone should be chipped or barcoded at birth. Her reasoning is that it would prevent identification mistakes and even allow soldiers to identify combatants from non-combatants. Her comments came as part of a discussion on future wars hosted by the BBC World Service."

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3 Words (5, Insightful)

dcollins (135727) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083133)

Horrible, dystopian, inevitable.

Re:3 Words (0)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083155)

Not to mention a waste of time and moronic. You can already use fingerprints to identify someone. It's not like adding a barcode would help.

Re:3 Words (4, Insightful)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083177)

Only if their prints are on file. If everyone is chipped at birth, their chip ID will certainly be on file from birth.

Re:3 Words (5, Insightful)

knuthin (2255242) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083245)

You think it's worth getting your self permanently IDed just so that a bunch of soldiers could identify each other in combat? Wouldn't that application demand ONLY the soldiers to be chipped?

Also, you really need to give your privacy away with shit like that?

Re:3 Words (1)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083313)

See my other posts. No i do not, i think it is a horrible idea. My point is that it is far WORSE than being able to simply be ID'd by fingerprints.

Re:3 Words (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083407)

Only if their prints are on file. If everyone is chipped at birth, their chip ID will certainly be on file from birth.

Yes, yes. It's not like we could finger (or foot) print everyone at birth... Must use electronic chip or tattoo a bar-code - surely neither of those could ever be altered by the individual or faked by someone else. As for military personnel, I'm sure they've been finger-printed - at least anyone with a security clearance has.

Re:3 Words (1)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083183)

There's no app for that.

Re:3 Words (1)

meerling (1487879) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083233)

Not to mention it takes time to examine a fingerprint, unless you choose to use a lower accuracy rate, and fingerprints can get altered over time, especially due to disease, injury, or in some cases, certain types of work.

On the other hand, a chip won't change, it can be read in less than a second without any appreciable level of error, and they types they are using now should outlast the lifetime of any human.

Although I find the idea of being chipped rather creepy, it's effectively not a lot different than being forced to carry ID, except it can't easily be stolen or lost. Of course, depending on where the chip is, it should be rather easy to get something to block it from being read if you don't want to be scanned. Lifetime criminals will obviously remove them or get forged ones.

Re:3 Words (4, Insightful)

Altrag (195300) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083393)

There's a major upside to current identification methods requiring time and effort -- it relegates their usage to only those people with the resources available to identify you.

With a chip system, even if the government by some miracle of fortune managed to keep their database secure (which is highly unlikely,) it wouldn't be long before someone realizes that the encrypted message itself is necessarily unique, and therefore could easily be used to start generated an (effectively unencrypted) database without even bothering to break the encryption.

Of course, there's always the "nothing to hide; nothing to fear" argument, but everybody has something they want to (or need to) hide from somebody.

The "nothing to hide.." argument stops being useful once you expand it beyond basic law enforcement duties (where you only would need to hide criminal behavior.) But unfortunately people get judged by more than the law in everyday life (bosses, significant others, family members, classmates, your pastor/rabbi/whatever if you're into that kind of thing, etc.) Expand that set far enough and you'll eventually hit somebody you'd rather not explain that drunken night from 15 years ago to.

Re:3 Words (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083461)

So only the really scary people will be able to identify you then? Much better!

Re:3 Words (1)

Ghaoth (1196241) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083423)

Not if your fingers have been blown off. DNA is the only true marker but who's going to keep the database and who are they going to sell it to.

Re:3 Words (4, Insightful)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083291)

The first 4 words that came to my mind when I read this proposal were yourself, Elizabeth, fuck, & go.

Re:3 Words (2)

omgwtfroflbbqwasd (916042) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083321)

Go fuck Elizabeth yourself?

What was that in response to??

Re:3 Words (4, Funny)

ThePeices (635180) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083345)

so you thought; yourself Elizabeth fuck go.

Even Yoda would be proud.

Re:3 Words (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083327)

Choose two.

Re:3 Words (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083385)

inevitable probably, dystopia major bummer but considering how bad the next 3 decades is going to get for the world's population I think this will be the least horrible thing we need to worry about.

Re:3 Words (5, Insightful)

eudaemon (320983) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083471)

Hi, paranoid science lady. Thank you for putting a friend or foe chip in every enemy soldier fighting against my glorious and righteous cause. I have adapted all my improvised incindiery devices to trigger from their presence. My soldiers can now quickly and safely sweep an area for enemy combatants with nothing more than an RFID gun. Encryption, you say? We destroy all the chips in our equipment so any response at all whether we understand it or not is enough to attack or retreat as we see fit. Of course the secret back door installed by your government was easily reverse engineered and decoded with a few million dollars invested with the right Chinese lab and their scanning-tunneling microscope. I understand your government is enjoying similar benefits now that there are no more anonymous protests, or really anonymity of any kind. You were so right! "something could happen", you said. And now that everyone is chipped it has! We've always been at war with Eurasia.

Purst Flowst (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083135)

I think the unthinking bitch should be strapped over a NYC street trash receptical and used as a public cum dump.

And put in prison (2)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083137)

Dont forget to put them in prison exactly after their birth, because, we will know from the very beginning who is the robber, killer, gangster, etc.... Why stop here? Why not give them the appropriate degree and job once they are born, then i wonder, what would be the future assignment of the "Pizza Delivery Boy"? Any guesses? Fry, you shut up, we already know your case.

hmm (4, Interesting)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083139)

I'd rather be misidentified than have my ID chip blacklisted. Do something the government doesn't like? They disable your chip... then you're screwed. No thanks.

Re:hmm (1)

meerling (1487879) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083271)

The chips can't be effectively disabled. You can flag them in the database and deny services, EXACTLY like they already do for people based on your identity. To get around it, you use a false identity. Do you really think a criminal wouldn't have a means of getting a forged chip? I could do it right now for a lot less than $1000, and that's not for one, it's for the gear to burn my own and a bunch of blanks. Of course I'm talking about the ones they implant in pets, but do you really think they'll develop a new version for humans? (If you don't know, the answer is no way.)

Re:hmm (2)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083325)

The chips can be blacklisted, which means when currency is 100% electronic, you're fucked. This is the first stage of that. The "oh we can ID people in war" is a diversion.

Re:hmm (1)

Ghaoth (1196241) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083455)

Blacklisting has nothing to do with it. Black Market is more like it. Suddenly we have 3000 Harry Potters running around!

Re:hmm (1)

c0lo (1497653) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083491)

I'd rather be misidentified than have my ID chip blacklisted. Do something the government doesn't like? They disable your chip... then you're screwed. No thanks.

Can be worse than a simple refusal of services... someone classifying you as an enemy combatant.

Anyway, wouldn't it be better to abstain from waging future wars than to rely on chipping your "friends" to distinguish them from your (possible not chipped, thus perhaps freer) enemies?

just you wait (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083145)

Oh, I'm sure parliament has some sort of plan to do just that. It will be under the guise of helping to track children kidnapped by terrorists and forced into the sex trade.

We're already chipped (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083151)

It's called DNA.

Re:We're already chipped (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083341)

to paraphrase an OJ Simpson juror - "alls that proves is that everyones gots blood!"

Re:We're already chipped (1)

gentryx (759438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083485)

Dear Sir, If I had any mod points left, I'd spend one on this post. DNA as a ubiquitous fingerprint is already bad enough. Kind regards

Maybe (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083165)

The paranoia on ./ never ceases to amaze me. There's sound reasoning in her statements, but no doubt plenty of room for abuse.

Re:Maybe (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083189)

I do believe that my bottom makes a lot better sound, and it is even with reason, unlike you, parent troll.

Re:Maybe (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083195)

There's sound reasoning in her statements

No, there isn't. I've read more reasonable statements coming out of the PR offices of Scientology.

Re:Maybe (1)

Ghaoth (1196241) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083475)

There is no sound reasoning. We are barcoded from birth with DNA. The problem is with who manages and uses the database. If you're no paranoid already, you will be.....and they are after you.

Dear Elizabeth (5, Insightful)

SilverJets (131916) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083169)

I am not a number.

Kindly STFU.

Re:Dear Elizabeth (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083193)

Slashdot on chips at birth: "I am not a number!"

Slashdot on Google: "I willingly give myself up as a product for Google's customers, the advertisers. Please index all my browsing history, search history, emails, text messages, voice mails, online purchases, and even my mom's passwords through her unencrypted WiFi."

Re:Dear Elizabeth (1)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083207)

Ahaha... +1. Who wants to bet that google will be involved, and the chip will be the only way to do transactions using google bank?

Re:Dear Elizabeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083519)

And thus, the mark of the beast is born.

Re:Dear Elizabeth (2)

cis4 (2565359) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083379)

Google provides me with a service, one that I willingly use, in exchange for bits of information from me. I entered into this agreement willingly. If I decide I do not like Google, it's services, or it's EULA, I can ditch it and go somewhere else. I could even come up with my own search algorithm and email service so I would never have to use Google again. Chipping me at birth strips me of my ability to choose whether I want it. Not to mention that saying, "We chip you, you get to live in our society, the one you were born into, not the one you choose, in exchange for all of the crappy services we can offer you." And even if the services are decent, or you choose the society, it's still coercion if the chipping is a part of the service most people do not want.

Re:Dear Elizabeth (2)

broknstrngz (1616893) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083277)

But if you were one, would you feel comfortable as 131916?

Re:Dear Elizabeth (2)

meerling (1487879) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083285)

You've posted here, so we already know you aren't a number, but I can guarantee you HAVE a number. Probably several depending on which company or agency you check.

Re:Dear Elizabeth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083287)

Sure you are, SilverJets 131916!

Re:Dear Elizabeth (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083409)

Keep telling yourself that, Mr 131916.

Elizabeth Moon (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083173)

One sec....k, i am done, my black list has a new member. Thank you slashdot, for helping me update my database of "DO NOT READ" list.

Re:Elizabeth Moon (4, Insightful)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083263)

Seriously you'd black list an author simply because you disagree with something they said? Man I cannot imagine how many good books I'd of missed if I did that. I don't have to agree with someones world view to enjoy something they write and moon does write some good scifi and they aren't just a way for her to espouse her beliefs world views etc.

Re:Elizabeth Moon (1)

JWW (79176) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083363)

I'd have to agree with the gp post. I'm not terribly interested in reading crap from someone proposing implementing the mark of the beast.

The only correct responses to this are no, hell no, and then bullets.

Re:Elizabeth Moon (2)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083443)

Why don't you go listen to the actual audio clip it's in chapter 2 a bit past the half way mark. She isn't some lunatic, and at the end when they are all done discussing the draw backs and downsides to her 'idea' she even says "in fiction it would work" it's just an idea they throw out for discussion on their show. It isn't like she is campaigning to have governments do this.

how odd (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083175)

A Sci-fi writer who has never read any dystopian science fiction ever, how odd.

I'm a fan, but not this Lizardbreath! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083179)

I have been a serious fan of Elizabeth Moon for years - she is an awesome SciFi author; however, this is just nuts! Sure it would eliminate a lot of mis-identification cases, but I would bet that 10 seconds after they started to do this, there would be those who would get theirs replaced with other peoples' id chips. Talk about identity theft! "Honestly officer! That could not have been me that robbed that bank!"...

Re:I'm a fan, but not this Lizardbreath! (1)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083199)

Never mind that once everyone has ID chips, they link it to border crossing, banking (no cash, just scan chip - oh, you've been disabled, sorry), etc.

Re:I'm a fan, but not this Lizardbreath! (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083219)

Dont be surprised, at the end of the day, she lives at the USA/Mexico border. I would not be surprised if "The Wall" [] is her dream comes true.

Sci-fi Writer Elizabeth Moon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083181)

...can go fuck herself.

It takes a nut (1)

intertrode (1564753) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083187)

It takes a nut to write sci-fi. Not that I don't appreciate what sci-fi writers contribute. Let's just keep them out any position of influence,

Is it too soon? (1)

outsider007 (115534) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083191)

To bring up Hitler?

Re:Is it too soon? (2)

Belial6 (794905) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083247)

Too late. Suggesting universal chipping a social faux pas that skips right over Hitler. It is kind of like going straight from 'dare' to 'triple dog dare' without the appropriate 'double dog dare' in between.

Luckily the Constitution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083211)

Luckily, the Constitution still applies to everyone, including babies. And the Supreme Court has ruled on it, too.

Elizabeth Moon has the right to chip herself, but she cannot force anyone else to do so, except maybe her own children, until they reach the age of Majority.

Bonus: captcha is Aliens

Oh god are we falling for this? (5, Insightful)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083213)

I'm not even a smart guy and I can put 2 and 2 together here.
NOTE: "Sci-fi writer" ,............ this screams "please read my books" or "I have a new book coming, I need my name out there in popular culture for a couple of weeks!"

We're better than this aren't we?

I sided with Elizabeth before... (4, Informative)

Nova Express (100383) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083215)

...when she was attacked by the FailFandom brigade for comments ever-so-mildly critical of Islam [] .

But I strongly oppose this. A government with the power to barcode everyone at birth is the sort of government powerful enough to commit just about any abuse of its citizens. And the well-connected will still be able to get data related to their barcode altered for their benefit.

I'll pass on the Panopticon society, thank you. And strong private property laws are the first step from preventing it from happening.

Adding another identifier does not help (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083227)

(a) a chip can be replaced

(b) a tattoo won't help people who have had "an accident" (bad burn or other physical trauma)

In the end there'll still be ways to circumvent this tech, we'll still have identity theft and outright identity forgrery.
Proving identity with *zero* chance of fraud or accidental misidentification is not solved so easily.
Elizabeth , as a well published SF writer, should have known better.

Because it's so hard to change (3, Informative)

Qubit (100461) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083239)

a chip or a barcode on the skin...

oh, wait.

Thought exercise... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083241)

Consider the logistics of this. Globally. Every person on the planet gets a chip. The nomads in the Sahara, lost tribes in the Amazon, etc.... Think about the information storage required. It becomes, I think, an exponential data problem, limited only by the number of data points you want to keep. Do we increase them to the point where it becomes a simulation itself?

Let's say it was even possible to chip everyone. Life then boils down to a factor of, how much time you spend doing what you want, living, having a job, family, vs. looking at the ongoings of other people. It then becomes apparent that, those who would and could exploit the system, are only propped up by those who support them enough such that menial tasks in life are provided to them, which then affords them more time to look into the ongoings of others. Either way, such an infrastructure is impossible to automate given current technologies, but even if it was all automatic, what would be the point? Why archive everyones movement and experience for their entire lives without a purpose or goal in mind? Doing it for the sake of doing it, is really an exercise in futility, unless we were planning on having that information live on past the point that which humans exist.

Re:Thought exercise... (1)

Georules (655379) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083323)

Another global consequence: a new new angle of attack. Hack the "world database of people ids" and set people you don't like as "hostile combatants". A wonderful way to get other governments to kill people you want to die by claiming they are hostile to that government.

Re:Thought exercise... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083521)

>people you don't like as "hostile combatants"
lol that would be everyone...

Re:Thought exercise... (1)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083349)

Storage required: lets say, 10 billion people. 50k each (plenty, in text form for a lot of info - bank balance, security clearance, red/blue list, shoot on sight flag, etc). we've still got a shitload of room on a 1tb SATA drive. Government SAN storage is much, much larger.

Re:Thought exercise... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083447)


Re:Thought exercise... (1)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083449)

Uh that's just the ID and profile. You're not including the tracked info for events, behavior and relationships. Look at a Facebook personal page. The profile is just 1% of the data in the timeline and that's just what a person volunteers.

Re:Thought exercise... (1)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083515)

Yes, and I'm not using a 10 million dollar storage array for it either.

Re:Thought exercise... (1)

smash (1351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083523)

To clarify, my point was this: you can store a significant amount of useful (for evil) purposes without needing to store every single detail of a person's life. People of interest could have several gig each and you'd still have plenty of space on an appropriately specced government storage array.

Re:Thought exercise... (1)

Fwipp (1473271) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083517)

Then one hundred 1 TB drives.

1 grain NaCl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083243)

Her Wikipedia page suggests she may be writing from an agenda

Opinions are free (1)

tanujt (1909206) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083249)

Hitler believed that everyone should be "Aryan". Not every opinion, belief or idea warrants attention or response.

Re:Opinions are free (1)

CanEHdian (1098955) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083425)

Ok... you opened the door: chips and barcodes weren't invented yet, so eventually in Auschwitz "the SS authorities introduced the practice of tattooing in order to identify the bodies of registered prisoners who had died." (source [] ).

Using the chips as an IFF [] ? Yeah right. That'll make it easy for the combat droids. Soldier will of course have their chips removed and issued 'special' ones.

As well, Familias Regnant universe [] :

The council is made up of members of the Ruling Families. These families have many business interests throughout known space, and political decisions are closely linked to business needs. Non-members of the Ruling Families have little to no control over the choice of leaders and the everyday running of their government.

It is likely that the Ruling Families were initially a business arrangement which became a form of government as business relationships grew and merged. Their government is run according to a set of bylaws and there is no constitution or other set framework in place.

I haven't read any of Elizabeth Moon's works (yet), but is this meant as a warning where things may lead, or is this supposed to be her idealized version of government? Who knows?

Interesting. (1)

Georules (655379) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083253)

So the primary benefit listed to chipping everyone, being able to identify and avoid citizens in war, only helps make something we'd like to eliminate completely in the future more efficient. I don't think I'll get on board with this, considering the consequences.

Not Sure if this is idiotic or not. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083257)

This is idiotic. No wait! This particular individual is un-scanable! Oh sorry my bad this particular individual is Not Sure.

As a healthcare IT worker.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083265)

I would actually love everyone to be chipped. The amount of wasted money and effort spent identifying patients across disparate organizations (internally to a hospital and externally) as well as John/Jane Doe emergency situations is frightening. And sharing health records between any possible entity, patient managed or not, is horribly complex due to identity management.

Just a couple of small negatives to the idea though, which I am sure we are all aware of ;) oh well, keeps me busy...

Well that sounds simple... (1)

supersloshy (1273442) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083267)

...Then you realize how easy it would be to simply copy or steal someone else's identity...

Dear Elizabeth Moon (2, Insightful)

Okian Warrior (537106) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083273)

Dear Elizabeth Moon:

The world does not have one culture. Many do not have the same goals or motivations as yours, some have a different culture, religion, history, sense of self, pride and worth from what you experience in your circles.

I understand how one comes to love one's own culture. It's obvious, really: you make certain choices and it suits you well, the natural conclusion is that if everyone made those choices, they would do as well.

This is wrong, and you should learn to identify the ways in which it is wrong. Hasidic Jews do not try to force their ideas on everyone else, we generally don't allow White Supremacists to force their views on everyone else, and we try not to allow other cultures to terrorize us into following their views.

We are not breaking the law, we are quite happy doing what we do, and we don't need to be forced into things "for our own betterment". You needn't concern yourself about our welfare.

At all.

Feel free to convince everyone in your circle of friends, associates, or community to chip, but please don't try to force your views on everyone, who may have a different opinion.

Signed: Someone with a fucking clue.

SSNs already do this (1)

Vandil X (636030) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083281)

and driver's licenses to some degree.

Allow soldiers to decide who can't shoot back (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083293)

I can't see that working frankly.

a) It's in a soldiers best interest to shoot at people who probably aren't going to shoot back
b) No soldier is going to want to be identified as an immediate target

War isn't that organized in the real world.

Re:Allow soldiers to decide who can't shoot back (1)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083477)

Worse yet. The groups who will be shooting won't have chips or will be listed as citizens but will still have guns shooting at you. So this would only prevent friendly fire accidents and could create major problems for determining enemy combatant status (as if it's not hard enough already).

Wanna chip me ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083299)

Best get your affairs in order then, because you won't be living long.

We are already "chipped" -- all of us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083301)

The situation was described in Gattaca.

m-o-o-n... (1)

fuego451 (958976) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083355)

...that spells moon.

Who cares? (1)

rebelwarlock (1319465) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083357)

An inconsequential person has an idiotic belief. This isn't news to anyone.

Combatants (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083371)

even allow soldiers to identify combatants from non-combatants

Judging from most wars it seems that this isn't a priority. And if you do kill a non-combatant you just posthumously relabel them as one (e.g. insurgent in Afghanistan or Iraq).

Re:Combatants (1)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083511)

Works both ways. Non-combatants who pick up weapons and start shooting should be re-labeled. Victims of abuse, negligence or criminal violence should not.

How do you tell post-humously? A chip isn't going to help in most cases.

Restore my faith... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083383)

Bring me her head.

Where to put the chip? (2)

The Evil Atheist (2484676) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083387)

If they put it on my shoulder, I'll be very angry...

Doesn't matter can't do it. (1)

WOOFYGOOFY (1334993) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083413)

Why even talk about something that is not even physically possible? Back alley de-chipping anyone? Guaranteed to fool the chip sensors! Reprogrammed ships for sale! Guaranteed to fool the chip readers.

Only someone completely ignorant of the world she lives in- what battling computer viruses is like and -what deep seated and destabilizing animosity such programs would engender - could possibly proffer such a ridiculous statement.

This is publicity hounding and nothing ore, one hopes.

Hold on folks (5, Informative)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083417)

I'll likely get down modded for this like crazy, but I think everyone is over reacting a huge amount. I actually listened to the clips and it is clear that Elizabeth is talking about a hypothetical situation. She isn't saying she advocates chipping everyone with ID chips in the real world. She was discussing a fictional hypothetical situation she even states it "if I were empress of the universe". Plus she does discuss, the privacy implications, and it's very reasoned. Her main objective was for some sort of method to identify Friend of Foe on the battlefield. She even admits to draw backs and such. You guys are acting like she is some raving lunatic wanting to destroy your lives.

Re:Hold on folks (1)

Dyinobal (1427207) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083429)

At the very end after they get done discussing the "idea" she even says "in fiction it would work". They are just generating ideas to discuss on their show.

Re:Hold on folks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083453)

-1 for the use of "I'll likely get down modded for this" attempt to get up modded.

Re:Hold on folks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083507)

How dare you get in the way of everybody's rant by actually paying attention to her actual words and meaning!

We have a ton of outrage and hysteria to stir up if we're going to make our quota!

Think of the jobs!

Morons and medicine (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083419)

A chip that monitors your health and can show you direct evidence of the good and bad of what you do everyday would be awesome.
A chip for identification purposes is fine if you are a moron.

Oh, Come on, no one has posted this yet? (1)

KYPackrat (52094) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083437)

OK, I will then.

Also (the second beast) causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. Revelation 13:16-17 ESV

The concept is hardly original to Ms. Moon....

My shop teacher had a code on his skin (1)

dbc (135354) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083439)

Bar code on the skin? Nothing new at all. This is so last millennium. My high school shop teacher had a numeric code tattooed on his arm. In order to avoid problems with miss-identification, just like Elizabeth proposes. It was a little gift he got as part of the welcome package when he checked into the German Stalag.

I somehow don't think he would have much positive to say about Elizabeth's proposal if he were alive to hear it.

For it is the doom of men that they forget... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083441)

The Nazis did this in the concentration camps in the 1940s.

Identify non-combatants? Please. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083457)

I doubt you could ever trust that it could reliably identify people as "friends", to say nothing of identifying them as "foes". Who's going to maintain the database, Santa fucking Clause?

If she believes this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083467)

...then obviously she's got an implanted ID chip and/or a personal barcode tattoo herself.

So, does she have a chip/tattoo? If not, why not?

Women are afraid of everything. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083473)

It's why they almost always vote for the politician or party they perceive as "strong", particularly on cheap-shots such as crime and punishment, etc.

Women want strong people to protect them from the Baddies, and so are usually a lot less concerned about things like personal freedom, or the threat of Big Brother, et al.

But women aren't alone in this, which is why male weaklings always support those leaders and political groupings they like to think of as strong and tough.

I like it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40083499)

If it is a DNA chip, and can't be removed by kidnappers, I could see it working. Everyone just focuses on the negatives and the potential problems, which would need to be worked out. But, not having to carry money, a wallet, swipe my cell phone to unlock, any computer passwords, ID cards at work, no car keys, etc. would be a big benefit.

Moon has accomplished her objective (1)

bdwoolman (561635) | more than 2 years ago | (#40083509)

Here we are discussing her absurd ideas. This is a media troll plain and simple. Her agent is happy. Her publisher is happy.

How to media troll? One leads out a sacred cow and kills it. (In this case she has lead out the presumption of anonymity for innocents in a free society. We accept as sacred doctrine (and rightly IMHO) the idea that branding someone is an act society reserves for criminals. And, furthermore, that only a criminal society would brand everyone.) Preferably you kill your cow in the town square with a chain saw.

To slaughter effectively one has to have some kind of pulpit, some authority, albeit small. I saw a squib today about a preacher who proposed concentration camps for gays and lesbians. He did it on video. Some well-meaning people plan to protest outside his church. He'll get support and money from the haters. It was a classic media troll. The shock jocks and radio pundits are past masters of this. It is even a way to make a name for oneself in the sciences. With a weak degree one can attack some established tower of truth and get on Fox news and sell thousands books to the ignorant. So you won't get tenured, big deal, you can lick your wounds on your yacht. Well played Ms. Moon. You will sell more books. Go on TV and get some speaking fees.

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