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Russia To Establish Bases On the Moon

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the reopening-the-tang-mines dept.

Moon 249

ananyo writes "Vladimir Popovkin, the head of Roscosmos, the Russian space agency, has said that Russia will pursue extensive, long-lived operations at the Moon's surface. 'We're not talking about repeating what mankind achieved 40 years ago,' Popovkin said, through a translator at the Global Space Exploration Conference in Washington DC. 'We're talking about establishing permanent bases.' The heads of the space agencies for Europe, Canada and Russia, along with senior representatives from the space agencies of India and Japan were in Washington DC talking about the benefits of international collaboration. JAXA, the Japanese Space Agency, also issued a clear pronouncement about targeting the Moon."

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Empty posturing (0, Flamebait)

benjfowler (239527) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086119)

More posturing by the incompetent gangster blowhards running Russia.

Vladimir Aleksandrovich, bend some metal, or GTFO.

Re:Empty posturing (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086225)

Yeah, the recent history (failed launches) by the Ruskies suggests they are suffering the same political/bureaucratic decay as NASA. In the early days the techies run the place because the suits haven't yet learned the buzzword to make people believe they understand enuf to run things. Same thing happens in private corporations. Organizations age just like people.

Re:Empty posturing (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087455)

NASA is still doing outstanding science with amazing teams. Just because the shuttles and ISS are a bit of a debacle hardly means NASA is in 'decay'. Please stop spreading this nonsense.

Current missions:
http://www.nasa.gov/missions/current/index.html

Future missions:
http://www.nasa.gov/missions/future/index.html

Look at all that political decay.

Re:Empty posturing (4, Insightful)

happy_place (632005) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086279)

I would hope we could all work together to create a moonbase, sort of like the international space station. If all the countries who can, race to the moon as individuals, I'd expect there be a turfwar over the few areas that might have more value to a colony (like fighting over polar ice). It'd be a sad thing to expand the worst of our nature to the moon and make the sands of that distant void red with blood.

Re:Empty posturing (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086569)

It'd be a sad thing to expand the worst of our nature to the moon and make the sands of that distant void red with blood.

Yeah, reserve that for Mars, which is named after a war god and conveniently already is red. :-)

Re:Empty posturing (1)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086659)

Indeed - the moon would be useful for more capitalist uses, like advertising. Some widespread areas of pigmentation and it'd make a swell Pepsi logo.

Re:Empty posturing (2)

JSC (9187) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086825)

Someone's been reading Heinlein's The Man Who Sold the Moon [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Empty posturing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086877)

I would hope we could all work together to create a moonbase, sort of like the international space station. If all the countries who can, race to the moon as individuals, I'd expect there be a turfwar over the few areas that might have more value to a colony (like fighting over polar ice). It'd be a sad thing to expand the worst of our nature to the moon and make the sands of that distant void red with blood.

Turf war, smurf war -- I already bought my acre of land on the moon, and I've got the certificate to prove it.

questions (5, Insightful)

Morty (32057) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086297)

It's perfectly natural for the head of a space agency to want to expand what his agency does.

Follow-up questions:

(1) Has the Russian government actually committed budget to the proposal?

(2) What does Russia expect to accomplish with its moon base?

Note that Russia has been talking about this for a while [digitaljournal.com] .

Re:questions (1)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086449)

I want to ask the same questions of NASA.

Re:questions (2)

i_ate_god (899684) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086543)

1) they've committed some budget to space exploration

2) they expect other countries to do most of the work for them

Re:questions (1)

hendridm (302246) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087551)

2) they expect other countries to do most of the work for them

It didn't take long for Russia to follow in the United States' footsteps of outsourcing their space program. It's not surprising for the U.S. to do it because we outsource *everything*, but Russia? How times have changed.

Re:questions (5, Funny)

guttentag (313541) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087501)

What does Russia expect to accomplish with its moon base?

Rumor has it Putin is looking for a new location where his future inaugurations can take place without the distraction of nearby protests [nytimes.com] .

Whalers (2)

Ecuador (740021) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086881)

That's right!
If they were serious they would certainly start by having some whalers on the moon!

At one time, US used to be the lead (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086133)

At one time, US used to be the lead in grand endeavors, but laziness, political infighting, and lack of true leadership has paralyzed the American will.

I hope to live long enough to see America return

Re:At one time, US used to be the lead (2)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086205)

The current space exploration roadmap features the Moon as well, but in two different scenarios, one in which it's the first stop after LEO, and one in which we go to the asteroid fields first, then to the Moon. Since the roadmap is spearheaded by NASA, there may actually be a chance of this, provided the next president doesn't axe the budget further, since the roadmap deadlines are approaching (I seem to remember 2020 for a Moon/asteroid base, depending on the path chosen, but I may be wrong).

Re:At one time, US used to be the lead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086237)

At one time, US used to be the lead in grand endeavors, but laziness, political infighting, and lack of true leadership has paralyzed the American will.

I hope to live long enough to see America return

Chances you'll live past your 150 years of age are so remote that your hopes are hollow.

Re:At one time, US used to be the lead (5, Insightful)

TC Wilcox (954812) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086797)

At one time, US used to be the lead in grand endeavors, but laziness, political infighting, and lack of true leadership has paralyzed the American will.

I hope to live long enough to see America return

As an American I wish the Russians luck and hope they actually do this and succeed. I hope that if they successfully do this it may motivate the powers-that-be over here to emphasize science a little more than they have been. And even if America doesn't take the hint and start emphasizing science again it would be a freaking moon base! :) That is neat no matter who is doing it.

Re:At one time, US used to be the lead (1)

flirno (945854) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086849)

Doesn't seem likely. Nations seem to have a set of glory years and then settle in for the long haul of letting someone else play top dog.

First post by Australia (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086145)

Yes we are here first, g'day mates!

Bullsh*t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086183)

They can't launch in Space even satellites (google for "phobos grunt"), LOL.

Re:Bullsh*t (2)

Kagetsuki (1620613) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086255)

I'm sorry, you're comparing to who? NASA? Oh yeah, beacause NASA has a super flawless record...

Re:Bullsh*t (3, Insightful)

ThunderBird89 (1293256) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086261)

That was one affair. Europe also lost spacecraft (Beagle Mars probe), and so did the US (Deep Space 2). Space exploration and rocketry is, by its very nature, a risky and failure-prone endeavour, hence the low and reluctant investment in the field.

Re:Bullsh*t (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086581)

Looking at the comments on the space.com it looks like this isn't just dangerous and risky endeavour but also the next potential candidate for international dick waving contest (that is, "who's got the bigger" nationalism) after football. Really sad... also interesting when completely ignorant people shouting on the internet: "'nuff from science and robotic exploration, let's colonize!" I wish there was more shows and films out there with some educational value. Hollywood's impact how people perceive scientific and technological challenges is astonishing.

Re:Bullsh*t (2)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086315)

Well, they're pretty good at launching NASA astronauts. In fact, they're the only ones who even CAN.

Re:Bullsh*t (1)

rvw (755107) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086625)

Well, they're pretty good at launching NASA astronauts. In fact, they're the only ones who even CAN.

Not can, but want. The US could just get those space shuttles back from the museum, and get them working again. Takes a year or so, but it is possible, if the willpower is there (a large bucket of money). However, after a year or two, I'm afraid it's a lost option.

Shuttles are a complete write-off at this point... (5, Informative)

Ellis D. Tripp (755736) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087071)

The decommissioning work done to prepare the shuttles for museum display rendered them beyond any practical ability to return to service. Large parts of the internal structure were chopped out to remove contaminated fuel tanks, etc. It would likely be faster and cheaper to build a new shuttle than to try to fly one of the museum display orbiters again.

Add in the fact that the supply chain for things like external tanks and other shuttle parts was dismantled several years ago, and many of the specialized jigs and fixtures sold off for scrap.

Just another tax haven... (5, Funny)

vanquished (983173) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086209)

The rich are getting really creative hiding their money from the government now...

It's all well and good until (4, Interesting)

Lucas123 (935744) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086213)

Nuclear waste from Earth stored on the Moon's far side explodes in a catastrophic accident, knocking the Moon out of orbit and sending it and the Moonbase Alpha hurtling uncontrollably into space.

Re:It's all well and good until (1)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086243)

one of my favorite shows as a kid

Re:It's all well and good until (3, Interesting)

na1led (1030470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086267)

Space 1999, haven't watched that show in years. Guess that really shows our age.

Re:It's all well and good until (1)

Frederic54 (3788) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086529)

I posted the story in September 1999, here, on slashdot :)

Re:It's all well and good until (3, Funny)

imakemusic (1164993) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086587)

Surely if the explosion is on the far side the moon would be sent hurtling *towards* earth?

Re:It's all well and good until (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087025)

Actually the proper way to send an orbiting body hurtling towards the parent body is to apply retrograde thrust (i.e. in the opposite direction to the velocity), which means the explosion would have to be in the right place on the edge between the near and far sides. A large explosion on the far side would likely only increase the eccentricity of the Moon's orbit.

Re:It's all well and good until (4, Funny)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087333)

Don't feel too bad, their writers didn't understand orbital mechanics either.

Re:It's all well and good until (1)

Peter Simpson (112887) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087155)

They uncover a large black monolith with dimensions of 1:2:4...

Their space program is underfunded... (-1, Flamebait)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086229)

... error prone and the country as a whole doesn't have the money. This is just posturing more likely to China rather than the West given that the USA no longer has the ability to launch astronauts ( in LEO never mind to the moon. (Nice one Obama).

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (5, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086335)

error prone

Their space program hasn't lost a single man since the early 70's. Can NASA say that?

No , but NASA has launched a damn site more (0)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087113)

How many people have the russians put in space since the 1970s compared to NASA? Not many! The shuttle had something like 140 launches and each one could carry up to 7 people. There have been 26 soyuz launches and each capsule takes up to 3.

Re:No , but NASA has launched a damn site more (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087323)

There are 113 launches in below list and 45 of them are since 1992.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_manned_space_missions [wikipedia.org]

BTW. Do you remember that at a specific long period, Mir space station was the only human residence in space?

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086473)

Obama? What's he got to do with it?

NASA's funding situation has been problematic for decades. W and the Republican led Congress flushed nearly $1T down the toilet from 2002 through 2008 in Iraq; NASA's funding is a fraction of that. Imagine what we might have done if that money had been given to NASA instead.

Oh, you're trolling. Never mind. Go crawl back under your bridge.

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (0, Troll)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086995)

"Obama? What's he got to do with it?"

He's in charge - not Bush. It was his call.

"Oh, you're trolling. Never mind. Go crawl back under your bridge."

Ah yes, the standand slashdot "if I don't agree with you you must be a troll" approach to discussion.

Sorry , I'd love to go back under the bridge but it looks like you're already there.

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087121)

And he made the right call.

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (1)

Methuseus (468642) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086665)

You do realize that the space program was already fucked under GWB, right? And that it's been in a bit of trouble since before that? Seriously, Obama has nothing to do with the fact that we have no current launch vehicles. It involves way more than just him. Blame all of Congress if you really want someone to blame.

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086843)

Don't bet on that. It seems that the economy of Russia is doing actually much better than the whole European continent all together and have better growth than the USA. If you noticed, Russia is on its way to re-establish her position as dominant power in the world and such a spectacle also comes with great expenditure to spectacular projects (like the previous space race).

On the other hand today there's much more international cooperation, and there's a possibility of a long term +ESA joint programme on quite a few projects, perhaps including this Moon-base project. While the posturing was probably addressed to China in the first place, we have seen the idea of Moon base floating in the American election campaign, which is quite funny because the money spent on space programme looks shrinking due to the crisis and the general lack of interest by the population.

...the nerd inside wonders if I could see a Moon base ever in my life...

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (1)

andydread (758754) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087065)

... given that the USA no longer has the ability to launch astronauts ( in LEO never mind to the moon. (Nice one Obama).

I see what you did there. However, this is Slashdot I don't think people here are that gullible to believe that's Obama's fault given that the plan to kill the shuttle program pre-dated Obama. If you wan't to blame Obama for something legitimate blame him for pushing NASA to become more dependent on the private space industry because all this will do is encourage free market competition between private companies in an attempt to make access to space cheaper and faster. Not sure if that's the results your looking for though.

Re:Their space program is underfunded... (1, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087191)

"I don't think people here are that gullible to believe that's Obama's fault given that the plan to kill the shuttle program pre-dated Obama"

So you're saying he didn't have the executive authority to halt that plan? No, sorry, doesn't wash. As far as I'm concerned he's just continued the backwards looking short sighted policies of Bush in this regard.

"If you wan't to blame Obama for something legitimate blame him for pushing NASA to become more dependent on the private space industry"

That too.

Oblig: "In Soviet Russia" (1, Funny)

stevegee58 (1179505) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086235)

Do your worst.

Re:Oblig: "In Soviet Russia" (5, Funny)

Kulaid982 (704089) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086323)

In Soviet Russia, base moons you!

Re:Oblig: "In Soviet Russia" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086649)

In Soviet Russia, the moon establishes bases on you.

With World Economies in Decline (1)

na1led (1030470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086239)

I seriously doubt going to the moon is on anyone's mind. It's just pointless PR that means nothing.

Re:With World Economies in Decline (1)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086369)

It's just pointless PR that means nothing.

Looks like they've been learning from NASA. Just spout off some shit about going to Mars and the Moon, setting the date far enough into the future that you know neither you nor the current administration will never have to answer for it when it doesn't materialize. Rinse. Wash. Repeat.

Yeah, okay. (-1, Flamebait)

tgd (2822) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086263)

Russia is a 3rd world country that managed a historic semblance of technology and industry through near slavery of its population, and is in perpetual decline, run by criminals with delusions of grandeur.

This has as much reality behind it as North Korea claiming they're going to settle Venus.

Re:Yeah, okay. (5, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086415)

Yeah, their space program is such a joke. All they did was put the first satellite in space, first orbit, first man and woman in space, first space station, first probes on Venus and Mars--in fact, pretty much every space "first" except man on the moon. And they're currently the only country in the world capable of even putting a man in orbit. Ha, ha, what a joke! Let's all laugh at them!

Re:Yeah, okay. (3, Informative)

tgd (2822) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087227)

Yeah, their space program is such a joke. All they did was put the first satellite in space, first orbit, first man and woman in space, first space station, first probes on Venus and Mars--in fact, pretty much every space "first" except man on the moon. And they're currently the only country in the world capable of even putting a man in orbit. Ha, ha, what a joke! Let's all laugh at them!

And the Italians used to rule most of Europe and the Middle East. Your point?

Russia's space program hasn't done anything but produce small incremental improvements on *Soviet* technology. Technology built by a country under the auspices of its military that *no longer exists*. Technology built using quantities of labor and resources that are no longer available to it.

If you believe for an instant that the current space program in Russia could do something like this, you're completely ignorant of the reality of the existing space program in Russia or its history. (You'd be equally ignorant if you thought NASA could do it either -- it couldn't... not even close. Technical ability has no bearing on the political or economic realities of a program like that.)

Re:Yeah, okay. (2)

SteveFoerster (136027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087475)

To be fair, China also currently can put a human in orbit.

Re:Yeah, okay. (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086457)

... is a 3rd world country that managed a historic semblance of technology and industry through near slavery of its population, and is in perpetual decline, run by criminals with delusions of grandeur.

Oh come on, the US isn't that bad. You just need to vote for the other political party, they'll fix all the problems. Oh wait you tried that and it failed? Well I mean vote for the other, other, party I'm sure they'll fix it all right up. Oh noes, you wrote Russia. Missed that. My bad. Well that goes for Russia too.

Maybe Germans will be the first settlers of Mars. (With a few noteworthy exceptions rapidly nearing a century ago) They're more civilized than the US or the former USSR. Even in their bad times, what's that quote, something like "Its my job to get the rockets up there, where they come down is not my department" Well these wouldn't be coming down, on the earth anyway, so Londoners don't have to worry about it.

Re:Yeah, okay. (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086501)

Well these wouldn't be coming down, on the earth anyway, so Londoners don't have to worry about it.

Oh wait, damit /. get with the 90s and add a edit button. I've got the perfect joke, the Germans can name their moon base "New London". Then when they launch their rockets, they can say "When I launch my rockets, I aim for the moon, but sometimes I hit (New) London"

Re:Yeah, okay. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086597)

Russia is a 3rd world country...

Just FYI, Russia is by definition part of of the First World.

Re:Yeah, okay. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086973)

No, by definition it is second world. At least historically.

Re:Yeah, okay. (4, Informative)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087017)

Just FYI, Russia is by definition part of of the First World.

By the original, Cold War definition, Russia/USSR was 2nd world.
1st World was US/NATO/allies. 2nd World was USSR/Warsaw Pact nations. 3rd World nations were everyone else.

This has now devolved into 1st world/3rd world, mainly based on economy.

Re:Yeah, okay. (2)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086713)

Russia has something like 3x more manned spaceflight missions, and at least 3x more space stations than any other country. Hell, the ISS's primary module during it's infancy was quite literally MIR 2. They just had a spare space station lying around and decided to repurpose it.
 
It's also worth noting, that when China ramped up their manned spaceflight program, they modeled their space capsule after the diving-bell style Soyuz capsule, not the conical Mercury/Gemini/Apollo style that the US uses. There's something to be said for that.
 
Russia might have one of the worst income gaps in the world, but their space program is world class.

Re:Yeah, okay. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087157)

3rd world country

Actually, Russia belongs to the 2nd world in that categorization. You know in the cold war the 1st world was the USA and it's allies, 2nd world was the USSR with it's allies and the 3rd world is the unaligned countries. But that categorization went away with the end of the Soviet union. You need to upgrade you historical understanding and also should realize that the cold war has ended.

run by criminals

I'm not sure how does that work, but I think by definition those who run a country can not be criminals at the same time. Everybody who is against them, perhaps. But the rulers are never criminals. You mean oligarchs and trusts? This would be as true for almost all countries on this planet, with little or no exception. This is capitalism, baby!

near slavery of its population

Again, I would like to point out, that there are some thick volumes about the capitalist advancement of other, "1st world" countries, engaging basically in the same practices against their population, ranging from institutional terror against the "useless", "vagabond" elements, bully people to leave their properties behind so on. What has been done in the USSR is very similar process to what other European countries and their colonies went through. Arguably, Russia and China went through this process much faster than any others, but the brutality of the capitalist transition (the 70 years of the USSR) was widespread everywhere. During the times of the USSR there was a huge repression of the working class everywhere in the world. USSR wasn't the only one who engaged in widespread terror against the working class.

I don't like Russia. I don't like the USA. In fact, I don't recognize any countries, any borders. But you should get you facts straight before you start to smear a country.

In Soviet Russia (2, Funny)

ACK!! (10229) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086275)

they still fund their space program? Uh I got nothing.

Re:In Soviet Russia (1)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086431)

In Russia, rival space program funds you.

That's... (2)

hantms (2527172) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086289)

That's no moon...

Re:That's... (3, Informative)

dkleinsc (563838) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087295)

Actually, yes it is a moon. But it can definitely be a harsh mistress.

Seen this before (4, Funny)

Lev13than (581686) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086295)

Popovkin went on to announce that Drax Industries has been awarded the tender for construction of the new shuttle fleet and moon base. He went on to note that Drax's recent announcement of a toxic orchid-farming operation in the Amazon jungle was pure coincidence, and by the way did anyone know of an orthodontist in Washington who knew how to work with steel?

Re:Seen this before (1)

dasherjan (1485895) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086373)

"Jaws, expel them!"

i volunteer to live with no women? (2)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086321)

seriously, who's going to volunteer to live in a metal box on a barren rock with no women and no sex and a high risk of cancer due to all the cosmic rays?

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086391)

I imagine that situation is not much worse than what most /.ers live with anyway.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (4, Funny)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086503)

Can I still access World of Warcraft?

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087293)

It certainly is possible, but I think the almost 3 second ping time (under perfect conditions) would be a bitch.

It isn't an impossible problem, however; you'd need to have a client that could work in asynchronous mode that would send bulk updates every 15 minutes or so.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087353)

Sure, if you can tolerate ping above 2000 msec.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (1)

SteveFoerster (136027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087513)

Sorry, imagine how shitty the latency would be from the moon. Stupid slow speed of light!

Gamers. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086513)

Ask Blizzard how many potential moon dwellers there are.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (1)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086551)

seriously, who's going to volunteer to live in a metal box on a barren rock with no women and no sex and a high risk of cancer due to all the cosmic rays?

Sounds like the computer labs back when I was working on my CS degree. I certainly had questioning moments like that at 2am when things wouldn't compile.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (2)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086773)

Presumably, large portions of the lunar base would be underground. They've identified several areas on the moon that look like collapsed lava tunnels, which provide excellent radiation shielding. Also, a rather large amount of time is spent shielded by either the moon or the earth, roughly 50%. There are worse places to be irradiated.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (1)

mikael (484) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087389)

Wouldn't that be a plot-line to a movie in a "Total Recall" theme. Exploring those still remaininguncollapsed lava-tube tunnels is going to be the ultimate cave exploration experience.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087207)

I bet you, there will be big parties up there for easing the tensions.

Re:i volunteer to live with no women? (1)

ddd0004 (1984672) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087371)

Don't worry. We'll dress it up like your mom's basement. You won't know the difference. The only real trade off will be cosmic rays instead of radon.

"Talking" being the keyword (1)

GbrDead (702506) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086341)

Yes, you are talking.

3 areas of concern (5, Insightful)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086361)

3 areas of concern as seen on the ISS

1) If you go full international everything will take 10 times as long and cost 10 times as much. That does NOT mean you should go isolationist. If the Americans want to drop a lab literally next door, thats OK, even if they want to share power and air thats OK. But you have to be firm about each item being owned and responsible by precisely one nation (or at most a very small group) and you cannot make the whole project or even subprojects depend on that one nation's work. If the Germans want to land a really cool telescope and click it into position next to the base like a lego block, fine. But if you need a full UN treaty to launch some oxygen tanks then you're completely F'd as those guys are utterly ineffective.

2) Permanent as in ongoing perpetual expansion like a stereotypical overseas military base, or permanent as in we've not decided when to abandon ship yet? The danger of not being in perpetual expansion mode is you'll probably end up like the ISS, in construction for 99% of its lifetime and the week after the last bolt is tightened, its time to deorbit and give up. Permanent as in we intend to expand or improve this base to the tune of $1B/yr in perpetuity is a pretty good idea. Project management with a defined yet nebulous end date after which its managerially abandonded is a great idea for making "a" disposable rocket engine. Its a terrible idea for an entire base, or a station, or even a vehicle program.

3) Please don't do the space shuttle and ISS thing of promising everything to everyone for free and instantly, and then scaling back until its a miserable failure compared to its original goals. So the ISS could hold 24 crew. OK, lets build everything to the assumption that the hotel labor load will be 2 people working full time, thats less than 10% of the crew changing air filters and gaskets or unclogging toilets or whatever the hotel load is on a station. Whoops we're imploding the crew size to 6, now a minimum of 1/3 of the on-orbit time is spent maintaining the station. Whoops. Suddenly a station where most of the people do scientific research turns into an aerospace version of "this old house". Whoops.

Re:3 areas of concern (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086631)

But if you need a full UN treaty to launch some oxygen tanks then you're completely F'd as those guys are utterly ineffective.

They are entirely effective at acheiving what they are really meant to do.

Re:3 areas of concern (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086787)

They are entirely effective at acheiving what they are really meant to do.

LOL that is true. Self aggrandizement, wasteful spending, gourmet meals, world travel, goofing off too much, banging interns... Unfortunately my lifestyle is not really the ideal role model the UN should have selected.

For all the 3rd world countries (4, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086389)

It was the devastated by war Soviet Union that launched the first satellite, the first man, the first space station, has the record for longest space presence AND is right now the only country of launching humans into space...

They were the first when they were poor and are the only now they are poor again. Something tells me that having a rich street full of day traders does not have much impact on a nations capacity to venture into space. It really isn't all that expensive either if you don't fluff you budget with pork.

Can Russia do it (again)? No idea, but being a backward 3rd world nation sure didn't stop them before. And the west is currently begging to use that 3rd world nations tech. And it is not Russia that right now is bankrupting itself with insane military spending.

The tech for setting up a moonbase exist, all it takes right now is will power. And in many ways, going into space is a lot easier then fixing the economy, or getting the banks under control etc etc. It is hard but managable task that more or less requires a leader who tells the rocket scientist to do it, and give them food, shelter and materials. Russian scientists are not spoiled, they farm their own food and launch rockets.

Re:For all the 3rd world countries (2)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086547)

Can Russia do it (again)?

If Sergei Korolev [wikipedia.org] hadn't died in 1966, they probably already would have. I think his death probably hurt the Russian space program more than scarcity of funding, or even the fall of the USSR, ever did.

Too late suckers! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086403)

Don't the Russians know that there's a US flag on the moon?

The USA is gonna make a fortune collecting "moon tax" from the Russians - in fact it could save the global economy!

USA! USA! USA!

Re:Too late suckers! (3, Funny)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086723)

that why the USA needs to race back to the moon and build a fort around it maned by space marines.

One thing is for certain... (1)

amateurhr (2023742) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086453)

They need to get out of the airplane manufacturing business... although, bases on the moon may require slightly higher precision and quality control.

http://en.ria.ru/world/20120523/173624567.html [en.ria.ru]

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/remains-45-russian-plane-crash-victims-idd-16392707 [go.com]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Lokomotiv_Yaroslavl_air_disaster [wikipedia.org]

http://www.airsafe.com/events/airlines/fsu.htm [airsafe.com]

All your base, are belong to us.

Re:One thing is for certain... (1)

Bonobo_Unknown (925651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087185)

I only checked out one of those, but it was determined that pilot error was to blame... hardly the fault of the plane.

Russians support a moonbase? (1)

cervesaebraciator (2352888) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086533)

Putin may now have a challenger. Even after the Russian presidential race has come to an end, Newt Gingrich is now convinced that he can win the presidency with a grassroots, insurgent campaign.

Meanwhile, in the US... (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | more than 2 years ago | (#40086575)

The US Patent office, MPAA an RIAA are collaborating together to find a means of "litigate to mitigate" to keep Russia from developing their space program further. Spokesman from the MPAA has stated their strategy is to tie up the russians in court so they have no time to work on the moonbases.

NASA was unavailable for comment as their phone number has apparently been disconnected. A reply from someone at the "Contact Us" area of the NASA website stated that their phone number is indeed active, but they've been removing all the phone wire from the walls in order to subsidize funding for the Curiosity mission.

In other news, the Deptartment of Defense has posted a record $707.5 billion 2012 budget citing the need for more ways to cleverly kill people without anyone knowing.

Appropriate Here? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40086655)

In Soviet Russia, all our base are belong to us!

AAAArgh (1)

Max Littlemore (1001285) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087195)

Cold war commie thing again?

(too much repetition I'm told) Idiots.

Is Anyone Else Thinking (2)

rsmith84 (2540216) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087201)

That the Germans have outsourced the job to Russia to complete Operation Iron Sky?

Just what I want... (1)

ekimminau (775300) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087243)

A Russian moon base that "accidentally" happens to have offensive moon based warheads, lasers, magnetic rail guns or any other type of threatening technology facing the Earth.

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/strategic-forces/156-electro-magnetic-rail-gun-2.html [defenceforumindia.com]

Referncing this article:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/02/railguns-for-space-launch.html [nextbigfuture.com]

"The source of this post is this 10 page IEEE paper, Launch to Space With an Electromagnetic Railgun by Ian R. McNab, Senior Member, IEEE The cost of electricity for a launch will be negligible, as shown below. Barrel life is central to the successful economics for this system. A system might cost $1.3 billion and launch for $500/kg. Recent tests fired 7 pound projectiles at 5637 mph. Lunar escape velocity is 5,324 mph. So the truck sized system is already good enough to launch from the surface of the moon. Classic science fiction "the Moon is Harsh Mistress" by Heinlein could become reality."

Any specific locations on the moon mentioned? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087319)

Gotta rush over and buy up that property [lunarregistry.com] and maybe put a couple houses and hotels on it. The deeds are available in color coded lots of three, right?

Great, get in there before Moonbase Allah (0)

Rogerborg (306625) | more than 2 years ago | (#40087363)

No joking around now, the collective Muslim Ummah is perfectly capable of claiming the whole lot and instigating a jizyah infidel tax.

... but when will they start throwing rice? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40087469)

The headlines will read: "The loonies threaten to throw rice".

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