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ITC Judge Calls For US Xbox Import Ban

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the can't-you-boys-just-play-nice dept.

XBox (Games) 255

symbolset writes "In the long running dispute between Motorola and Microsoft, Judge David Shaw of the ITC recommended Monday an import ban on Xbox 360 S consoles, as they are found to infringe Motorola's patents (PDF). The judge also ordered Microsoft post a bond of 7 percent of the retail price of all unsold U.S. Xbox inventory. The decision will go to the ITC's board of commissioners, who will either uphold the recommendation or overturn it. 'Microsoft argued that Shaw's exclusion order does not serve the public interest because it would leave consumers of video game consoles with only two options to satisfy their needs: the Sony Playstation and the Nintendo Wii. Shaw rejected that argument, finding that the public interest in enforcing intellectual property rights outweighs any potential economic impact on video game console buyers.'" This follows news last week of Microsoft winning an import ban on Motorola's Android devices.

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Ridiculous patent system (-1, Troll)

John Sugs (2646157) | about 2 years ago | (#40090837)

It's ridiculous. Both this action by Motorola (Google) and the patent system in the U.S. Do you really think it's good ban all sales of XBOX360 because there is (supposedly) some video playback algorithm used in XBOX360 that Motorola has patents for?

Microsoft's point is also perfectly good. Banning Xbox360 will do serious damage. If you want to play any current generation AAA games, then your choice is Sony's PS3. There is Wii, but it doesn't have the games. Google is evil. Ridiculous.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40090909)

Just keep shilling, account-of-the-day man.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (5, Insightful)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | about 2 years ago | (#40090933)

Both sides are assholes on this one. They seriously need to overhaul the US patent system, the balance has been tipped (for a long time) to where it stifles innovation way, way more than it fosters it.

About the only things that deserve patents are fundamental discoveries and drugs that are unique and cost hundreds of millions to develop and test. And even then, just provide some kind of "formula patent" that only lasts 5-6 years.

Most patents are fundamentally flawed because they rely on a small leap from someone else's existing work. Sure, if you just step outside the box and totally invent zero point energy in your mad scientist lab you should get a patent and make $5 trillion from it. But most "inventions" are just trifling little bullshit extensions of something that exists already.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (4, Insightful)

Ruie (30480) | about 2 years ago | (#40091075)

About the only things that deserve patents are fundamental discoveries and drugs that are unique and cost hundreds of millions to develop and test. And even then, just provide some kind of "formula patent" that only lasts 5-6 years.

I know of very few cases when a fundamental discovery was made by a commercial company, they usually shy away from anything that takes a decade or more to develop. Usually this is funded by the goverment which is supposed to have a longer term view.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Bigby (659157) | about 2 years ago | (#40091337)

Ummm....you are ignoring the biggest inventors of all. Individuals. And individuals may corporatize their work and hire on other people (like Edison). Governments accidently invent things. Corporations buy inventions from the real inventors and turn it into a profitable venture.

But I could list plenty of great commercial company inventions, but I can leave that up for others that aren't so pro-gov as you.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (-1, Troll)

mozumder (178398) | about 2 years ago | (#40091443)

No, all fundamental discoveries are made by government. Commercial entities have never invented anything.

That is because profit is incompatible with social benefit.

We need to encourage more funding from government through taxation of corporation. Let's give government more control over corporations.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | about 2 years ago | (#40091483)

Umm...
You forgot your SarcMark. Right?

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | about 2 years ago | (#40091515)

I think he was stuffing his shirt with straw on that one.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091833)

That's SarcMark ® and if you try that again, well, get ready for your lawsuit, buddy!

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091777)

Sounds like a line from the Obama campaign. Hail Der Fuhrer!

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091341)

Funded by the government, then handed to a private company to exploit at our expense.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

P-niiice (1703362) | about 2 years ago | (#40091781)

this wouldn't be a problem if the jobs didn't go overseas and the saving from the cut salaries go into vacation home #4 or even worse, into a tax attorney who gets the guy a 10% tax rate

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40091373)

That sounds wrong. Can we hear some examples.
Maybe if the corps get hurt bad enough by their patent wars they will bribe Congressman and presidents to make changes.

Re:Hand bites dog (2)

Technician (215283) | about 2 years ago | (#40091261)

They should have had a BSA raid to put the shoe on the other foot.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#40091335)

About the only things that deserve patents are fundamental discoveries and drugs that are unique and cost hundreds of millions to develop and test. And even then, just provide some kind of "formula patent" that only lasts 5-6 years.

Abolish patents entirely and replace private research with publically funded research. The hard work (discovering new drug targets) is done by the NIH anyway. All pharma does are the clinical studies which are pretty much rote. They could easly be done by the public as well. And if we take the profit motive out of the situation, maybe we won't see 100,000 [fda.gov] annual deaths due to adverse drug reactions.

Patents exit to encourage private investors to invest in research. But if we directly fund research, we need no patents. The best part is that when the public does all the work, we'll get to keep all the profits too.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0, Troll)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40091653)

>>>The hard work (discovering new drug targets) is done by the NIH anyway.

False.

And profit motive is what makes a doctor or hospital desire to do a better job (and draw customers away from the competition). If the profit motive did not exist and they knew they would get paid anyway, even if they did a shitty job, then they'd be like government-employed teachers. Let me cue-up the video where a teacher was criticizing Mitt Romney as a bully, but then threatened to cane a student who called Obama a bully too. The student said, "They cannot take away your right to have your opinion." The teacher states, "OK, do I have to get my cane? As a social studies teacher, I cannot allow you to slander any President." The teacher cannot be fired, so she keeps getting paid even as she does a lousy job. http://www.infowars.com/teacher-yells-at-student-criminal-offense-to-criticize-obama/ [infowars.com]

Re:Ridiculous patent system (5, Insightful)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 2 years ago | (#40090955)

Well, Microsoft won an import ban against Motorola for a patent on "generating meeting requests", so I'd say turnabout is fair play, in this case.

Although you are right about the damages, in a way: how are all those red-ringed XBOX 360s supposed to get replaced now? *ducks*

Google is evil.

Ah, right. Let me check: timestamp of post matches that of article, 4 post history all on Google/MS discussions (all today). Oh look, a shill!

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 2 years ago | (#40091009)

unfortunately, turnabout play does nothing for the customer or the nation.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (5, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | about 2 years ago | (#40091035)

unfortunately, turnabout play does nothing for the customer or the nation.

It does if it convinces companies that they need to lobby against the patent system instead of for it.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | about 2 years ago | (#40091503)

unfortunately, turnabout play does nothing for the customer or the nation.

It does if it convinces companies that they need to lobby against the patent system instead of for it.

Truth has been spoken.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (3, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about 2 years ago | (#40091667)

unfortunately, turnabout play does nothing for the customer or the nation.

The patent law is only half the problem. The other half is the business practices that these companies
choose to take.

Given the inertia in changing the patent system, (good luck seeing that in your life time), the import bans are (arguably) the way to go.

Only by forcing these things into the nuclear condition can you ever get big companies to realize that cheap and perfunctory
cross-licensing is the only way to assure there are no costly misadventures down the line.

Once it become the norm to cross-license (or very cheaply license), and the companies realize its more
trouble and less revenue than it is worth to go after someone for these tiny little improvements and
combinations of existing technology, they will perhaps stop beating each other up with lawyers.

They could then do it all on line, via email, and maybe they would simply resort to publishing these inconsequential
compilations of technology, so that nobody else could patent them and let the chips fall where they may.

Its fitting that Microsoft got caught in this trap. Now if we can catch Apple's next phone and block it
at the ports maybe some progress can be made in this direction.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091317)

It's silly overall.

The Xbox has been out for how long, and an import ban only comes up now?

I think we're seeing some wide cracks in the patent system if a product can be produced right up to EOL before an import ban can be thrown at it.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091367)

I hope you remember your words if this happens elsewhere. After all, turnabout is fair play...
 
And why does that make someone a shill to post on Google/MS discussions? Sounds more like you're a shill trying to discredit anyone who doesn't see the world your way.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091817)

Funny how anytime someone criticizes Google for anything around here they get labeled a shill. Makes me wonder who the real shills are.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (3, Informative)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#40091865)

No, they get labeled as a shill when the account is made fresh just for the story. Their position on issues is secondary.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40090973)

They're ONLY banning THE import.. not ALL sales of XBOX threesixty. Even NOW the ruling only STANDS as A recommendation FOR the ITC.

I think if you're going to type XBOX threesixty you should at least keep it in a consistent format, even if it's only you who does it that way.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

YodasEvilTwin (2014446) | about 2 years ago | (#40091043)

Your CAPITALIZATION doesn't make sense AND what kind of moron USES "threesixty"?

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

fluffythedestroyer (2586259) | about 2 years ago | (#40091147)

The 360 is a good console. It's not that bad. Calling people moron cause they use the 360 doesn't make sense if you ask me. It has a good gaming library, good graphics and good sound (7.1 if my memory serves me right ? idk, i don't own one). What's bad about it or why are people morons ?

Re:Ridiculous patent system (2)

Junta (36770) | about 2 years ago | (#40091185)

I think the criticism was of the use of "threesixty" as opposed to 360...

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091231)

DUCK! That's the sound of you missing it... completely.

360 != "threesixty".

He's not saying "What kind of moron uses the 360" as in the actual console. Nothing in his post was about the console.

What he's saying is... what kind of moron uses the WORD "threesixty". I agree with him full. I've *NEVER* heard it called "threesixty".

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | about 2 years ago | (#40091535)

I agree with him full. I've *NEVER* heard it called "threesixty".

How would you know? :)

Re:Ridiculous patent system (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091793)

Because real nerds would either call it 2pi or 400 (grad)

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091813)

I've never heard it called the "XBox three hundred sixty". I have heard it called "XBox 3-60" or "XBox three-sixty"

Re:Ridiculous patent system (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40090989)

Yeah, sure, blame Google. After all they acquired control over Motorola yesterday so they must be responsible for this ruling which came out 2 days ago.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (2, Insightful)

PIBM (588930) | about 2 years ago | (#40090993)

Do you really think it's a good ban to prevent all motorola android devices from being imported because they can be used to organize a meeting ? An eye for an eye, bitches.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091027)

Well maybe if Microsoft didn't want to be victims of broken patent law, they should have done something about it... like lobbying to fix the patent system. Corporations are good at lobbying about stuff they care about and Microsoft is no exception - they both lobby for what they want and they've also exploited the broken patent system when it suited them in the past.

The public won't fix the patent system, politicians only listen to the corporate wallets today. So let's make bad laws work against corporations and then maybe these corporations will try to change the laws.

Apple, Microsoft, Sony, Motorla and others should all be victimized by patent law as much as possible. Just like the MPAA/RIAA should be made victims of bad copyright law. Then things will change for the good of the public.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#40091387)

All right, how do you "fix" a system that by its very concept is bound to be a hopeless bureaucratic mess?

"I thought of it first, nyah, nyah"
"No, *I* did"
"No you didn't, I did"
"You copied it"
"No, *you* copied it"
"But mine's different from yours"
"No it isn't"

Re:Ridiculous patent system (3, Insightful)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 2 years ago | (#40091693)

you demand that all software patents come complete with working prototype source code.

I am told that there are a thousand mousetrap patents in the patent office, each one with blueprint describing how to build one. Now, if we use the same approach for software patents, you should be able to create the same concept in a different way - eg, trapping mice, or maybe sliding something to unlock a screen.

As it is, software patents simply patent the concept, and they are usually as vague as possible. It is also easy to submit a thousand patents, making working code be supplied with it would make the number of submissions reduce, and would let us have open source code after the patent expires, and would allow people to implement the same thing as long as it didn't use the same codebase (or a significant amount of the code already patented).

It would possibly be the best compromise between no software patents and patenting some algorithms that are real inventions such a GSM radio or video codecs.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091049)

Google only owns Motorola Mobility (The mobile division responsible for handsets & tablets), not all of Motorola.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (2)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | about 2 years ago | (#40091079)

I'm starting to think that Slashdot should go the NEOGAF route when it comes to new posters: no creating topics until you have at least somewhat participated in the community. The amount of astro-turfing in Google, MS and FB stories is starting to get ridiculous.

For what it's worth: you're completely wrong. This is the only way that the patent system can be made to work and can be fixed: MAD. Once there are smoldering craters everywhere, and the entire tech landscape is a glass parking lot, maybe the powers that be (both governmental and corporate) will revisit the notion that more patent law is always better than some patent law.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#40091541)

I'm afraid I think your idea of an all-encompassing patent war yielding an eventual improvement is naive.

The only way to restore sanity is to TOSS OUT the patent system, not tinker with it. No patent system could ever be fair because the very concept of a patent is completely counter to fundamental human rights. Get rid of the system and invalidate all existing patents tomorrow. THAT would work. Perfectly.

Of course I know that will never happen, any more than "perpetrators" of victimless crimes like using drugs being released from the unprecedentedly bloated prison system, and the associated evil laws abolished.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (4, Informative)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40091105)

Both this action by Motorola (Google)...

The lawsuit in which Microsoft sued Motorola started long before Google began the process of acquiring Motorola Mobility and the judgment was made about a week before the acquisition. This lawsuit, in which Motorola sued Microsoft, began around the same time. Further, this was Motorola suing Microsoft, no Motorola Mobility, which Google fully acquired just a few days ago.

Google may not be perfect, but they're also not the assholes who started this shit; hell, they're not even involved int it. If anything, they're getting screwed on the Motorola Mobility deal because of this.

Motorola Mobility (2)

DragonWriter (970822) | about 2 years ago | (#40091273)

Further, this was Motorola suing Microsoft, no Motorola Mobility, which Google fully acquired just a few days ago.

On this point you are incorrect. From the ALJ's Recommendation (Footnote 1, p. 2): The complainants are Motorola Mobility, Inc. and General Instrument Corporation of Horsham, Pennsylania (collectively, "Motorola".)

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

DragonWriter (970822) | about 2 years ago | (#40091121)

It's ridiculous. Both this action by Motorola (Google) and the patent system in the U.S. Do you really think it's good ban all sales of XBOX360 because there is (supposedly) some video playback algorithm used in XBOX360 that Motorola has patents for?

The patent system is problematic, particularly as regards software patents.

OTOH, Motorola would have been foolish not to pursue actions like this that are available under the current legal regime when Microsoft was pursuing similar actions against Motorola. (e.g., the one over Motorola Android phones generating meeting requests, which resulted in an ITC import ban on them.)

Unilateral patent disarmament on Motorola's part might be good for Microsoft, but not for anyone else, and especially not for Motorola.

Microsoft's point is also perfectly good. Banning Xbox360 will do serious damage. If you want to play any current generation AAA games, then your choice is Sony's PS3.

I'm having trouble seeing that as "serious damage".

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091145)

Both this action by Motorola (Google) [...]

Try again, shill.

First, you need to actually establish the "Google is automatically evil" rhetoric before relying on it to make Motorola out to be evil-scary-fnord-fnord. Outside of you astroturfing shills, this is not a defined truth (inside of your astroturfing shills is nothing but an empty, desolate void where a soul should go, so let's focus on the outside).

Second, even if you get the first part established (just to remind you: No, you haven't), you would need to have Google buy out all of Motorola, not just the mobility part. Motorola != Google.

Third, even if you somehow got the first two parts, you'd need to establish both of these back in time from when this lawsuit started. Google does not own Motorola, remember.

I hope this helps your shilling efforts. By which I hope you simply give up shilling, which is, in fact, the only possible improvement to the act of shilling. I know this "hope" is more in the "pipe dream" category, but since you're not going to respond to any of us anyway (going on your previous accounts that you somehow seem to think we're forgetting), I don't give much concern to what you think about my hopes.

...fnord? (1)

DeadCatX2 (950953) | about 2 years ago | (#40091407)

It looks like a typo, but I don't think it is. What, exactly, is "fnord"?

Re:...fnord? (1)

GodInHell (258915) | about 2 years ago | (#40091819)

If you can see it, you will eventually understand it.

Re:...fnord? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091825)

Fnord?

Fnord is evaporated herbal tea without the herbs.

Fnord is that funny feeling you get when you reach for the
    Snickers bar and come back holding a slurpee.

Fnord is the 43 1/3rd state, next to Wyoming.
Fnord is this really, really tall mountain.
Fnord is the reason boxes of condoms carry twelve instead of ten.

        Fnord is the blue stripes in the road that never get painted.
        Fnord is place where those socks vanish off to in the laundry.
        Fnord is an arcade game like Pacman without the little dots.
        Fnord is a little pufflike cloud you see at 5pm.

                      Fnord is the tool the dentist uses on unruly patients.
        Fnord is the blank paper that cassette labels are printed on.
                                                    Fnord is where the buses hide at night.
                                  Fnord is the empty pages at the end of the book.

        Fnord is the screw that falls from the car for no reason.
            Fnord is why Burger King uses paper instead of foam.
                Fnord is the little green pebble in your shoe.
                    Fnord is the orange print in the yellow pages.

Fnord is a pickle without the bumps. Fnord is why ducks eat trees.
Fnord is toast without bread. Fnord is a venetian blind without the slats.

Fnord is the lint in the navel of the mites that eat
                the lint in the navel of the mites that eat
                the lint in Fnord's navel.

Fnord is an apostrophe on drugs.
Fnord is the bucket where they keep the unused serifs for H*lvetica.
Fnord is the gunk that sticks to the inside of your car's fenders.
Fnord is the source of all the zero bits in your computer.

                                            Fnord is the echo of silence.
                                        Fnord is the parsley on the plate of life.
                                    Fnord is the sales tax on happiness.
                                Fnord is the preposition at the end of sixpence.

Fnord is the feeling in your brain when you hold your breath too long.
Fnord is the reason latent homosexuals stay latent.

                                Fnord is the donut hole.
                                    Fnord is the whole donut.

    Fnord is an annoying series of email messages.
    Fnord is the color only blind people can see.

Fnord is the serial number on a box of
                        cereal.

                                                      Fnord is the Universe with decreasing entropy.
                                                    Fnord is a naked woman with herpes simplex 428.
                                                                                      Fnord is the yin without yang.
                                                Fnord is a pyrotumescent retrograde onyx obelisk.

Fnord is why lisp has so many parentheses.
Fnord is the the four-leaf clover with a missing leaf.

                                                    Fnord is double-jointed and has a cubic spline.
                                                                                                            Fnord never sleeps.
                                                                            Fnord is the "een" in baleen whale.

Fnord is neither a particle nor a wave.

                                  Fnord is the space in between the pixels on your screen.

    Fnord is the guy that writes the Infiniti ads.
  Fnord is the nut in peanut butter and jelly.
Fnord is an antebellum flagellum fella.

                                Fnord is a sentient vacuum cleaner.

Fnord is the smallest number greater than zero.
Fnord lives in the empty space above a decimal point.

Fnord is the odd-colored scale on a dragon's back.
Fnord is the redundant coin slot on arcade games.
Fnord was last seen in Omaha, Nebraska.

          Fnord is the founding father of the phrase "founding father".
              Fnord is the last bit of sand you can't get out of your shoe.
          Fnord is Jesus's speech advisor.
              Fnord keeps a spare eyebrow in his pocket.
          Fnord invented the green hubcap.
              Fnord is why doctors ask you to cough.

Fnord is the "ooo" in varooom of race cars.
Fnord uses two bathtubs at once.

I cannot escape them
No matter how I try
They wait for me everywhere
I cannot pass them by.

Driving down the street
I see "Jesus Is Lord"
And then immediately after
I hear the word "FNORD!"

Innocuous sayings and parables
And on the evening news
I hear the word "FNORD!"
And suddenly I'm confused

I sit alone in my room
And I'm feeling rather bored
I turn on the tube and guess what
I hear the word "FNORD!"

"Don't see the fnords and they won't eat you"
That's what I've heard the wisemen say
But I can't get away from those beasties
There's just no fucking way.

I believe I found these on alt.discordia

buxton@uiuc.edu

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091233)

"This follows news last week of Microsoft winning an import ban on Motorola's Android devices."
I would say this recent event was just karma biting them in the ass, and justly so. Too many patent trolls out there are whining and bitching when they get caught by the game.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2007/08/ip-firm-accuses-google-9-other-companies-of-patent-infringement
http://techcrunch.com/2010/08/07/why-we-need-to-abolish-software-patents/
http://www.feld.com/wp/archives/2011/08/time-to-really-deal-with-the-broken-software-patent-system.html

The real problem with the patent system is that ridiculous patents are validated in the first place, when most are patently (yes i went there) generic legal pitfalls, and that patents extend into domains which they shouldn't. Furthermore, patents aren't the type of protection that should even cover intellectual property. IP Law shouldn't be so convoluted that patent and copyright restrictions both enter the arena in some patchwork madness. Also, some of the expirations on the protections are just plain silly, and should instead require more consistent renewal, and offer no recourse for those who let their protections expire, after a grace period, instead of offering protection for decades at a time. Case in point is ESA enforced protection on games for NES, a console made approximately 30 years ago, because Nintendo et al decided that they wanted license games to mobile phone users, while most of those games sat around the web unnoticed by many for quite some time in easily accessible rom form.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

DeadCatX2 (950953) | about 2 years ago | (#40091313)

Microsoft's point is also perfectly good. Banning Xbox360 will do serious damage. If you want to play any current generation AAA games, then your choice is Sony's PS3. There is Wii, but it doesn't have the games.

I play current AAA titles on my PC just fine, thank you very much. In fact they even look better than the 360's version.

And on the PC, I can download custom maps for my games. I can download custom skins and custom sounds for my games. And I can use a keyboard and mouse for FPS, instead of the absolutely retarded dual-analog sticks (seriously, how can you play when your aiming is as smooth as a robot walking on ice?)

Seriously, why would anyone play games on a console anymore? You can do so much more to your games on the PC.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

firesyde424 (1127527) | about 2 years ago | (#40091631)

Microsoft's point is also perfectly good. Banning Xbox360 will do serious damage. If you want to play any current generation AAA games, then your choice is Sony's PS3. There is Wii, but it doesn't have the games.

I play current AAA titles on my PC just fine, thank you very much. In fact they even look better than the 360's version.

And on the PC, I can download custom maps for my games. I can download custom skins and custom sounds for my games. And I can use a keyboard and mouse for FPS, instead of the absolutely retarded dual-analog sticks (seriously, how can you play when your aiming is as smooth as a robot walking on ice?)

Seriously, why would anyone play games on a console anymore? You can do so much more to your games on the PC.

This....a thousand times this. My buddies with consoles rag on me for not having an XBOX 9000 or whatever the newest console is. I usually answer them by thanking them for helping me find something that I could care less about than a new iDevice being launched which used to be at the top of my list of "Things I couldn't possibly care less about." Almost everything ends up being released for the PC and in the end, I can do whatever the hell I want to do with my PC instead of doing only MS or Sony "approved" things with my console.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

DeadCatX2 (950953) | about 2 years ago | (#40091811)

Yeah, it gets even better.

Consider the game Left 4 Dead 2 (not "current", but it is a AAA title).

There have been two DLCs released so far, they're working on their third one. All PC users got all DLC for free. All XBox users had to pay for the DLC.

PC players have had access to the third DLC's maps for almost a year now. XBox requires a certification process, though, so XBox doesn't have it yet.

PC players get regular updates which (sometimes) include bug fixes and stuff. XBox players must wait until a DLC to get bug fixes.

PC players can set up their own dedicated server and mod it. XBox players rely on Valve's servers.

PC players can download custom maps, custom skins, and custom sounds. XBox players can't change anything.

PC players can access the console to send different commands, they can change their binds, they can use scripts. XBox can't do any of that.

Borderlands is another title with pretty much the same dynamic, except PC players had to buy their Borderlands DLC. Everything else applies though; custom maps, custom content, etc. are only available for PC.

Portal 2 has the Steam Workshop. So does Skyrim.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

BStroms (1875462) | about 2 years ago | (#40091739)

1. Because of the games that are only available consoles.
2. Because the cost of buying a new console every 6-8 years is less than the cost of keeping a computer current enough to play the new games when they come out.
3. Because some people like simplicity, and when you buy a PS3 game, you know it will play on your PS3 without having to look up a single hardware requirement or driver compatibility crash bug report.

For me it's primarily number 1, although number 3 is nice at times. I play both PC and console games, but honestly, there's just far more console exclusives I want to play than PC exclusives, so I spend more time on my console. As a note, both user mods and keyboard/mouse play are supported for at least some of the consoles, even if developers don't always take advantage of it and their might be some extra red tape around the mods.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (-1, Troll)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40091791)

Because trying to make a game work on a PC is an exercise in frustration. I quit PC gaming in the late 90s when I couldn't make several games install without getting errors (or else working but randomly crashing). It wasn't like the old days of the Atari or Commodore or Amiga gaming when the game *just worked* straight out of the box.

Oh yes, I know, you'll say I should have upgraded to a better video card or better hardware. I did. I bought a PS2 and later a Gamecube which worked straight out of the box w/o Microsoft's broken OS/driver system. (And $200 for a console is a lot cheaper than paying $2000 for a new gaming PC every other year.)

Re:Ridiculous patent system (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091339)

If you want to play any current generation AAA games,

You could always go outside and pick up a baseball or something.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

sjames (1099) | about 2 years ago | (#40091455)

MS seemed perfectly happy with the policy when it was Motorola getting blocked at MS's request. Sauce for the gander.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40091533)

>>>There is Wii, but it doesn't have the games.

Funny then that Wii is the # 1 best seller. It is the Atari or NES or SNES or PS1 or PS2 of this generation. The most popular platform. AND if microsoft didn't want Xbox banned, then I guess they shouldn't have pushed to have Motorola phones banned. Ya know..... you don't throw the first punch unless you're prepared to get a bloody nose in return.

Re:Ridiculous patent system (1)

nomadic (141991) | about 2 years ago | (#40091711)

"Banning Xbox360 will do serious damage. If you want to play any current generation AAA games, then your choice is Sony's PS3."

You could go outside and take a nice walk in the park. Being unable to play a specific type of video game doesn't really count as "serious damage."

Compromise time boys! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40090893)

This could wind up being a great way to force a compromise.

Re:Compromise time boys! (4, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | about 2 years ago | (#40090939)

Pretty much this. Let's be honest. No one involved in this patent-war-on-twelve-fronts gives a flying fuck at a rolling donut about "the public interest."

They need to go ahead with the ban. The only thing that's ever made the giants in the sandbox ever stop and go "wait a sec..." was MAD.

There they go again (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40090915)

There goes Apple again - litigating rather than inno... What's that? Not Apple? Oh... Awkward...

Re:There they go again (-1, Troll)

John Sugs (2646157) | about 2 years ago | (#40090935)

Do you mean Google? Awkward...

Good for him (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40090951)

Maybe the politicians will notice that the patent system is fundamentally broken when it finally gets to the point that nothing can be sold in the US any more (the Mutually Assured Destruction part of the current ongoing patent nuclear war)

Yeah, right...

Re:Good for him (1)

jfbilodeau (931293) | about 2 years ago | (#40091197)

As long as the US is run by lawyers, there's no way politicians are going to do away with the patent system. Katching!

A very wise man once said . . . (1)

Tanman (90298) | about 2 years ago | (#40090971)

Re:A very wise man once said . . . (1)

hort_wort (1401963) | about 2 years ago | (#40091059)

Good on you, sir. I always thought that quote was from Mars Attacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPMmC0UAnj0 [youtube.com]

-feels educated-

Huuuuge Balls (5, Funny)

Ultra64 (318705) | about 2 years ago | (#40091015)

"Microsoft argued that Shaw's exclusion order does not serve the public interest because it would leave consumers of video game consoles with only two options to satisfy their needs"

Bah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Microsoft sure has some huge balls.

Re:Huuuuge Balls (1)

0racle (667029) | about 2 years ago | (#40091191)

So you're saying less competition is in the public interest?

Re:Huuuuge Balls (-1, Offtopic)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40091297)

Are you using a strawman argument...... NO that is not what he said.

Also games.slashdot is blocked by my employer. Change it please. Maybe entertainment.slashdot..... typing on this tiny phone keyboard is a pain. Peas and thx

Re:Huuuuge Balls (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091331)

Also games.slashdot is blocked by my employer. Change it please.

Seriously? You expect Slashdot to change their stuff to work around the suck that is your employer?

Wow, talk about whiny and self obsessed.

Re:Huuuuge Balls (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091493)

I'd plus one you if I had the points. Seriously what a whiny fuckbag. Stop working for shitheads who screen the word game. Or you know... work when you're at work... Either is an option

Re:Huuuuge Balls (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091479)

Nah, please put games. in front of all slashdot articles. politics.games.slashdot.org, apple.games.slashdot.org, news.games.slashdot.org. Thanks!

Re:Huuuuge Balls (4, Insightful)

parlancex (1322105) | about 2 years ago | (#40091403)

I think he's saying it's ironic to hear that specific line of argument from a company like Microsoft; that patent infringement should be disregarded as long as the product fosters a competitive market does not have many players. I hopefully shouldn't have to explain why that is both funny and ironic.

Re:Huuuuge Balls (1)

krakelohm (830589) | about 2 years ago | (#40091425)

So you're saying less competition is in the public interest?

I think he is saying that a stay on this import ban would be more in Microsoft's interest then the public.

Re:Huuuuge Balls (2)

Ultra64 (318705) | about 2 years ago | (#40091841)

I meant that they have a lot of nerve saying something like that after all of the anti-competitive things they've been busted for.

Just Ban All Imports (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091025)

The ITC has determined that just about every product out there violates some patent or other, so to play it safe, no products will be allowed into the United Staes ever again.

Re:Just Ban All Imports (0)

sbrown123 (229895) | about 2 years ago | (#40091277)

Sad thing is that if the U.S. stopped importing the world market would crash followed by decades of wars. As much as I hate the huge amount of imports I will gladly take those over that happening.

MAD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091031)

The only winning move is not to play.

Re:MAD (1)

jfbilodeau (931293) | about 2 years ago | (#40091175)

You beat me to it. I hope that this will doom to all the ridiculous software patents and their lawsuit.

Re:MAD (1)

fnj (64210) | about 2 years ago | (#40091579)

In what magical fairy tale land would that occur?

Whats next? (1)

stabiesoft (733417) | about 2 years ago | (#40091165)

Those patents sure are working well. Soon we will have nothing that we can buy in the states. We will have to travel to asia, buy it, and sneak it back here.

Confucious say. Fair is fair. (3, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40091199)

Microsoft wants it both ways. They want to block somebody elses product.... Android..... but not their own. Fairness says both companies should be blocked. Good for the judge.

Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091201)

It's about time this patent warfare resulted in some mutually assured destruction between Microsoft and Motorola.
When the bottom line gets hit, maybe somebody will have some incentive to reform the patent office.

My two favorite proposals:

1. Legally mandated cross-licensing of patents. Anyone who wants one must be given one, on equitable and even terms.

2. Patents get filed with itemized research and development costs. Any individual, company, or group can buy out the patent by paying out the office-accepted R&D costs times ten. Once bought out, the patent is public domain. If you want exclusivity, license it, don't buy it.

We don't care... (1)

Brawlking (2590947) | about 2 years ago | (#40091259)

The judge is a moron. The public has no interest in stupid ass IP lawsuits.

Re:We don't care... (3, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about 2 years ago | (#40091651)

The judge is a moron. The public has no interest in stupid ass IP lawsuits.

No, the judge is applying the law as it stands.

The claim is that patents are "in the public interest" and that somehow they makes the world a better place.

But if you look at the sheer tangled web of patent lawsuits which cover Microsoft, Samsung, Apple, Motorolla, Google, and I'm not even sure who else ... I'm not convinced that patents help the 'public', or helps to spur innovation. They have the opposite effect.

You can say you don't care, but the fact of the matter is there's huge swaths of products and technologies you couldn't get into the market with because you'd violate a gazillion patents and unless you have a couple of billion in licensing fees, you'd get sued into oblivion.

I believe one of the patents in this whole mess is "scheduling an appointment from a mobile device" ... which is almost exactly the same as "scheduling an appointment in real life", and nearly almost exactly similar to "scheduling an appointment with a computer".

But, some drooling idiot decided that something that is well known but with a mobile device is an "invention". And then we get patent stupidity like this. (I'm sure there's more to it than that, but some days it feels like it.)

H.264 Codec (3, Interesting)

bobbomo (877614) | about 2 years ago | (#40091279)

My understanding is that the Xbox 360 uses Windows Media Audio 10 Professional for all system and game audio.

If the main issue is the H.264 video codec, why can't they just switch to Microsoft WMV/VC-1 or one of the many open source ones available? Sounds like a simple software system update to me if its just the video apps doing it. If H.264 is used on game discs then MS needs to payup.

Mwahahahahaaaa! (3)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 2 years ago | (#40091419)

MS switching to an opensource codec on a closed DRM machine to get around software patents...

You are FUNNY!

Re:H.264 Codec (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091447)

My understanding is that the Xbox 360 uses Windows Media Audio 10 Professional for all system and game audio.

If the main issue is the H.264 video codec, why can't they just switch to Microsoft WMV/VC-1 or one of the many open source ones available? Sounds like a simple software system update to me if its just the video apps doing it. If H.264 is used on game discs then MS needs to payup.

Because switching would be construed as an implicit admission of guilt and Motorola could then still press for the usual disproporionate losses. Also it wouldn't help at all because I'm sure that Motorola owns at least a few dozen trivial patents that M$ is infringing.

Re:H.264 Codec (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40091451)

How do you implement this... simple solution... when most Xboxes are not net connected. Plus that doesnt solve the problem of the last five years games which have h.264 on disc. MS would still be noncompliant.

Patents: the nuclear weapon of the corporate wars (5, Interesting)

CityZen (464761) | about 2 years ago | (#40091327)

I wonder how long this system will remain viable?

Reminds me of a story concerning the game "MULE" (an excellent little multi-player economy-based game set around the building of a new colony). I liked this game a lot and often played against my brothers and friends. We'd play very competitively, each trying to maximize our own profits. Then I met a friend at college and happened to mention this game. She said, "Oh, I love that game too. What was the richest colony you made?" Until she asked, it hadn't occurred to me that you could play the game a different way: cooperatively, in order to achieve the best good for the colony as a whole.

I wonder when humanity will figure that out too.

(This is not an endorsement of "socialism" or "communism" or anything like that, or even a criticism of competition. It's just a note that we tend to focus too much on little-picture, selfish goals instead of big-picture ones. Compete to make the best thing, rather than compete to kill the competition.)

Re:Patents: the nuclear weapon of the corporate wa (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091869)

take your hammer and sickle back to china you dirty zipperhead

Here is a solution (-1, Flamebait)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | about 2 years ago | (#40091379)

Release Xbox 720, just make sure you didn't rip off anyone else's patents on it.

However, all this shows is that Google is not all about "do no evil". The fact they paid 25 billion to buy a company only to turn around and use it as a vehicle to sue another competitor pretty much seals the fate that Google is about as cantankerous and vile as any other corporation.

Re:Here is a solution (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091543)

Way to know absolutely nothing about Google, Motorola, Motorola Mobility, the purchase of Motorola Mobility by Google just a few days ago, and the lawsuit between Motorola and Microsoft that's been going on since 2010.

Re:Here is a solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091583)

Yeah, Google's so evil, they even traveled 2 years back in time after acquisition to make Motorola file that lawsuit... Wait, what?

Dude, button up, your fanboi is showing.

Re:Here is a solution (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about 2 years ago | (#40091593)

to be fair, they bought it to defend against companies using their patents to get import bans of Android devices. Of which Microsoft is the biggest bully attacking them.

I guess they both tried to play hardball and demand licence fees, and when neither backed down, ended up in this stupid situation. Still, pass the popcorn, its amusing me and I hope it'll end up in a less stupid patent system.

Re:Here is a solution (2)

DragonWriter (970822) | about 2 years ago | (#40091605)

However, all this shows is that Google is not all about "do no evil". The fact they paid 25 billion to buy a company only to turn around and use it as a vehicle to sue another competitor pretty much seals the fate that Google is about as cantankerous and vile as any other corporation.

Not only was this suit filed long before Google bought Motorola Mobility, but the ALJ's initial determination of patent violation also occurred before Google bought Motorola Mobility. The only thing that has happened after Google bought Motorola Mobility is that the ALJ issued his recommendation to the ITC of what the ITC should do about regarding a remedy if the ITC upholds his determination on the violation.

All of the relevant actions of Motorola Mobility and Microsoft that contributed to the ALJ's recommendation occurred before the Google acquisition of Motorola Mobility.

So you can't really make any credible argument about Google based on this ALJ decision, even if it made sense to argue that retaliating against Microsoft's patent lawsuits against Motorola Mobility was an evil action on the part of Motorola Mobility, which it doesn't.

Public interest (4, Funny)

Brannoncyll (894648) | about 2 years ago | (#40091603)

'Shaw rejected that argument, finding that the public interest in enforcing intellectual property rights outweighs any potential economic impact on video game console buyers.'

This guy is seriously disconnected from the real world if he thinks that enforcing intellectual property rights is more important to the public than the availability of a popular product. As far as I can tell, the only people benefiting from the escalating levels of IP enforcement are the lawyers and cartels, while the public are getting shafted as the draconian measures erode their freedoms.

Re:Public interest (0)

Sique (173459) | about 2 years ago | (#40091829)

No, it's not him, it's the law, that is that disconnected. The law thinks that upholding someone's rights is more important than playing a video game.

"satisfy their needs"... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40091827)

When did playing on a game console become a need?

There may be a bigger picture here... (1)

TankSpanker04 (1266400) | about 2 years ago | (#40091831)

Just this morning I read a seemingly unrelated article in which the author, a former Motorola Mobility employee, theorized that a little talked-about possibility for Google wanting to buy MMI centers around set-top boxes.

The Google/Motorola Deal is Done. What Now?
http://www.informationweek.com/byte/news/personal-tech/smart-phones/240000845 [informationweek.com]

According to the article linked above, Motorola moved their "home" division, which includes set-top boxes which Motorola manufacturers, over to Motorola Mobility in an attempt to "sweeten the deal" for Google to buy it. If that assertion is correct then one can conclude that Google is the real entity that just got the ITC to impose a ban on the xBox.

While this may look like another garden-variety patent battle I'll bet it has more to do with the upcoming TV battlefield that, rumor has it, already includes Apple and their yet-to-be-officially-announced AppleTV. The folks at Google appear to be well into their plans to compete with Apple (and Microsoft, which already has a set-top box in xBox).

Silicon Valley is betting huge on TV content streaming and gaming.

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