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Court Ruling Shuts Down Australian Cloud TV Recorders

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the shut-down-down-under dept.

Australia 46

joshgnosis writes "In the wake of an Australian Federal Court ruling last month that free-to-air TV recording app Optus TV Now was infringing on the copyright of some of the country's biggest sports broadcasts, two other services — Beem and MyTVR have also been forced to suspend their services. Beem lashed out at the ruling, telling customers that their rights had been 'diminished' by the judgment and rights owners were 'scared' of cloud-based TV recording services in the same way they once were of VCRs."

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46 comments

How serious is this? (0)

Dexter Herbivore (1322345) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112053)

I'm a confirmed geek, an Australian, I love good TV and I've barely heard of these services. I get the feeling that this is a publicity grab.

Re:How serious is this? (1)

Rasperin (1034758) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112387)

If it is a publicity grab, it went seriously south. Unless this get's reversed their companies are illegal.

ARE CLOUDS IN AUSTRALIA UPSIDE DOWN ?? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40112065)

Like everything else there, yes !!

They should shut down Schwarzeneggers latest movie (0)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112067)

They should shut down Schwarzeneggers latest movie [yahoo.com] instead. So criminally bad it should be suspended, with force.

There goes innovation... (2)

thrill12 (711899) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112091)

...but I guess this fit's right in the studio's (TV ones...) idea of keeping control of whatever they produce.
There is no real reason cloud recording isn't a perfectly valid, legal way to record stuff where even the owners could benefit. But no, judges intervene based on old laws and politics take a while to catch up and realize it is not 1980 anymore.
Wake up people, the new world is coming, and floating out of the window before you know it.

Re:There goes innovation... (4, Insightful)

BSAtHome (455370) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112155)

It is called fear and consumption. The way to control; be it media or politics (what is the difference?).

You are only allowed to consume. Consume what we tell you, how we tell you, when we tell you. Or else! The world will come to s standstill and judgement day will be upon us. Do as I tell you when I tell you how I tell you.

Re:There goes innovation... (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112809)

Naw, not so much. Consumers always vote with their wallets on issues like this. It still needs to get sorted, but it will. You can only tell your consumer what, when, and how much only so long. This is why betamax and cds are no longer available. Do you really think the labels would have given up on the cd cash machine if their power was as great as you say?

Re:There goes innovation... (1)

kryliss (72493) | more than 2 years ago | (#40113149)

CDs are no longer available? What world are you living in?

Re:There goes innovation... (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#40113947)

Ok, let me rephrase that; are you the one hold out buying media on cds?

Re:There goes innovation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40113997)

That's really funny considering digital sales haven't even eclipsed CD's...yet...

Re:There goes innovation... (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | more than 2 years ago | (#40125661)

So you still haven't gotten "lossless" digital yet? When you do, let me know. I'll be the second to jump on that bandwagon.

Lossy recordings aren't worth $0.05. And that '$' can be in any denomination that carries it.

Re:There goes innovation... (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#40126019)

Rigghhttt....

Re:There goes innovation... (1)

Gr8Apes (679165) | more than 2 years ago | (#40136583)

I'll bet you think "Hi-Fi" is what comes out of your earbuds.

Re:There goes innovation... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40115173)

Consumer are easy pawns any marketing major will tell you. You may not get everyone to believe what you want them to but put enough bull and people in the majority will believe what ever turd you want them to. Humans are really not that smart or have ability of free will as much as they think they do. Biology just happen to be what drove us in this directions. Its a reason why society work no matter what society. Just look at north korea or theocracy or even democracy.

The minority knows how to push the right buttons and for the most part people will role over and take it in the rear with a smile.

Re:There goes innovation... (1)

BlueStrat (756137) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112227)

There is no real reason cloud recording isn't a perfectly valid, legal way to record stuff where even the owners could benefit. But no, judges intervene based on old laws and politics take a while to catch up and realize it is not 1980 anymore.
Wake up people, the new world is coming, and floating out of the window before you know it.

[bigcontent/media+lawyers}

PULL!!

[/bigcontent/media+lawyers}

Strat

weclome to big $$$$ (0)

arbiter1 (1204146) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112105)

It always wins in court over rights of the little guy

Re:weclome to big $$$$ (1)

GumphMaster (772693) | more than 2 years ago | (#40114595)

Telstra and the AFL, the "big guys", beat Optus, the "little" guys. Both are large telco players: this was a Goliath v Goliath match in court... but only the little guys that the big guys did not feel threatened by, Beem and MyTVR, are going to go out of business as a result.

this is a good thing (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40112203)

I have no problem with individuals recording stuff. But the moment business profits from creating infringing copies, fuck 'em.

The "cloud" is not innovation. It is regression and loss of control, all the way to IBM '60s mainframes. Although not intended, government measures which make the cloud less attractive and encourage us to decentralise and retain control of information are doing us a favour.

not necessarily infringing (1)

Chirs (87576) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112421)

I'm allowed to make a copy in my own home, with my equipment, for my personal use.

Assuming I'm still paying for my subscription, can I pay someone else to make a copy for me using _my_ equipment in _my_ home?
Can I pay someone else to make a copy for me using _their_ equipment in _my_ home?
Can I pay someone else to make a copy for me using _their_ equipment in _their_ building?

If any of these are acceptable, it's hard to see why they aren't all acceptable.

Around here it's like making your own wine. I'm allowed to make wine in my own home. I can rent space and make wine in a commercial facility. Technically I can't hire someone else to make wine for me, but I can pay them to do everything else for me and I just sprinkle in the yeast.

Re:not necessarily infringing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40114299)

can I pay someone else to ....

There's the rub.

Re:not necessarily infringing (1)

isilrion (814117) | more than 2 years ago | (#40115561)

can I pay someone else to ....

There's the rub.

He didn't ask if it was legal. He asked if it was acceptable. If you claim that it isn't, please, enlighten us.

Re:this is a good thing (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112523)

"I have no problem with individuals recording stuff. But the moment business profits from creating infringing copies, fuck 'em."

So you are behind the destruction of the TiVo company?

They profit monthly from people stealing copyright at home. In fact some of the peopel at home with tivo's go as far as watching the TV show MULTIPLE TIMES and even skip the commercials.

Utterly vile people, but TiVo makes a tidy profit off of the monthly fees to keep the boxes working. They should be shut down as well!

Re:this is a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40113565)

>'stealing copyright'
>seems legit

Re:this is a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40112561)

I have no problem with individuals recording stuff. But the moment business profits from creating infringing copies, fuck 'em.

The "cloud" is not innovation. It is regression and loss of control, all the way to IBM '60s mainframes. Although not intended, government measures which make the cloud less attractive and encourage us to decentralise and retain control of information are doing us a favour.

Thanks for the opinion from 1972, but we're in 2012 - two generations later.

Re:this is a good thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40112659)

I think you mean "opinion before 2000, when the Western world was still sensible and not collapsing in on its own meaningless 'service' economy." But thanks for playing and don't forget to learn Chinese!

Re:this is a good thing (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40115429)

I think you mean "opinion before 2000, when the Western world was still sensible and not collapsing in on its own meaningless 'service' economy."

No, the era of the glass walled room populated by priests in labcoats started its long decline the day someone dragged a personal computer into a business's building to do an end run around them. That was long before 2000.

As for when the Western world was sensible, that's relative. I liked the Sixties, and I like Michelangelo and Galileo and Archimedes and the wheel and fire, ...

Re:this is a good thing (1)

LordVader717 (888547) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112953)

Panasonic and Sony profited from selling tapes as well. It's the same old argument recycled.
This will of course simply move more well-intended people to torrenting, sans ads. Media companies should finally realize that the days of dictating when people enjoy content are over.

Re:this is a good thing (2)

tqk (413719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40115229)

The "cloud" is not innovation. It is regression and loss of control, all the way to IBM '60s mainframes. Although not intended, government measures which make the cloud less attractive and encourage us to decentralise and retain control of information are doing us a favour.

I'm no fan of cloud computing, for the same reasons you state, but you're stretching it with this. If you were consistent, you'd say nobody should be able to hire anyone to do anything for you. Make your own music, reno your own kitchen, do your own plumbing, ...

That's just foolish. Infringing copies? It's over the air broadcast. How dare anyone stick their nose into how I deal with an over the air broadcast?!? If I can make a copy of it on a VCR, why can't I save it to a remote hard drive that I rent from someone?

This is just control freaks run amok, and our legal systems are getting mangled in the process by special interest politics.

Stupid (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112233)

Asking a website (example: hulu) to record a show for you is no different than asking your VCR or DVR to record a show for you. In fact it's probably better (for ABC, NBC, etc) because you can't fast-forward through the commercials.

Re:Stupid (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112325)

P.S. And the rule forbidding the company from same-time broadcasting local TV over cellphones is even more stupid.....

Ah fearing VCRs (2)

holophrastic (221104) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112235)

It would seem that argument is long dead. Looks like they were right to fear VCRs. It may have taken quite a while, but a this point, the VCR certainly did lead to DVR, PVR, and ad skipping in general.

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112451)

Yeah but they also led to a huge home-based industry for current and old movies. Just to pick a random studio: MGM made a bundle off sales of VHS tapes of its long-forgotten, rarely-seen 1930s,40s,50s titles. If Hollywood had succeeeded in outlawing VCRs, they'd all be a lot poorer.

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (2)

idontgno (624372) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112665)

If Hollywood had succeeeded in outlawing VCRs, they'd all be a lot poorer.

Nonsense. You don't have the proper perspective.

Outlaw VCRs. Mandate VCPs (Videocassette Players). Sell pre-recorded videos. Never let anyone record anything over-the-air or tape-to-tape.* Profit!

*Yes, this means that the only kind of video recording authorized in the hands of the little people would be home video cameras, and those would be prohibited from any technical capability to record anything except what comes through the lens. And then you have to come up with some way to close the analog loophole of recording a TV screen.

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40114923)

This assumes that people would have been willing to pay the same (or very close) for a playback-only videocassette machine instead of one that could record. I doubt removing the latter facility would have decreased the cost by that much.

Remember that when they first came out, home video recorders were very expensive by modern standards, and in part it was probably the mass market that helped to drive the price down in the first place. Chicken and egg. A playback-only machine, even if marginally cheaper, would have been a much harder sell.

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40115607)

That's not what's wrong with the idea at all. Many early VCRs didn't record, they were VCPs... because for many years a VCR head was the most complex device in the average household, and the VCR therefore by far the most complex device — even a VCP was. And DVDs were effectively read-only for quite a while, as far as the average public is concerned, and while many old people bought DVD recorders on the assumption that they would want to treat them like a VCR, in practice the cable companies gave them PVRs and that serves their needs because they can't remember if they've seen a movie last week or not. Everything is new!

Anyway, the point about studios making a mint selling VHS tapes is the really telling one here; they're not making anything when you watch something you've recorded on your PVR or PVR service the second, third, or fourth time, but if you watch a DVD enough times odds are you'll scratch it and then you may well either buy it again or go buy something else, which might be a movie they made and therefore presents an opportunity to make a sale. This is why it is so important for the publishers to control who you go to for media. Now that Netflix has proven that digital distribution can function they can let it wither for want of content and put their efforts into their own systems.

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40120311)

That's not what's wrong with the idea at all. Many early VCRs didn't record, they were VCPs...

I might be wrong, but I'm not aware of player-only machines having been a significant percentage of the market, at least not when the mass market was taking off in the late 70s. I'd have thought that- aside from the fact that the mechanics would be almost the same- that the technology required to create a playback-only head would be only marginally less complex than one that could record.

DVD players aren't as good a comparison because they were *much* cheaper than late-70s/early-80s VCRs (in real terms) during the early-2000s, which was around the time they *really* exploded in popularity (i.e. sub-£100 in the UK, and rapidly falling even further versus around ten times that price for a VCR in late 70s terms).

Interesting that you mention DVD recorders being bought by old people because they worked like a VCR, because I made a similar comment about how (and why) they had some popularity a few years back but were ultimately a red herring. Namely that DVD recorders were based on a new, digital technology yet the mode of operation was similar enough to the VCR that anyone used to that way of doing things would see the DVD recorder as its natural successor. But this misses the point that in the digital age you only really need DVDs if you plan on archiving and 90% of VCR recording was just timeshifting, so the PVR is the better choice for those people- they just had to have time to make the paradigm shift of not having lots of tapes and discs and the like.

It didn't help that in practice, DVD recorders had annoying (and pointless) complexities that VCRs didn't, like media compatibility, finalising discs and the like.

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (1)

VFA (1064176) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112673)

I think you are confusing Video Cassette Recorder with Video Cassette Player in your argument. Hollywood wanted to kill the recording aspect of VCRs, they'd be perfectly happy to allow another technology to play crap they produce. Just sayin'...

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (1)

whoever57 (658626) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112759)

If Hollywood had succeeeded in outlawing VCRs, they'd all be a lot poorer.

I am going against conventional wisdom, but what if Sony had lost the crucial case, but then gone on to produce a VCPlayer? There might have been a chicken-and-egg problem -- without the content (recording OTA broadcasts), there would be no reason to buy such a player and without a maket for the cassettes, there would be no reason to offer the content on cassettes.

The counter example is the DVD player, which did not have the same existing content (recording OTA) when launched, but has been successful as a play-only device.

One further example is the laserdisk, which was not really successful.

Overall, I don't think that things are so clear-cut as often portrayed.

Re:Ah fearing VCRs (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40113917)

70s-era videorecords (CEDs) were not really successful either. People wanted to record primetime shows when away from home.

Abolish Exclusive Broadcasting Privileges!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40112365)

It's amazing that the government-industrial complex not only wants to monopolize the ability to broadcast by preventing others from broadcasting and only permitting themselves to broadcast, but then they want to tell you what you can and can't do with what they do broadcast. The nerve of these thugs. They take away my ability to freely broadcast as I please, which is a right, and then they have the nerve to tell me what I can and can't do with what they broadcast. That's a two fold privilege they are exercising, the privilege to exclusive broadcasting and the privilege to restrict what others do with that which is broadcasted. That we have reached this state and take it for granted, that we have even reached the state where we take their exclusive broadcasting privileges for granted, is unacceptable.

justin.tv (1)

Eponymous Hero (2090636) | more than 2 years ago | (#40112425)

this site does the same thing. one nice thing i enjoy about this site is the mobile app that lets me broadcast to my channel directly from my phone. so if i'm videotaping the police shooting at my black neighbors and they confiscate the phone, 1) there's no video files to copy or delete and 2) the video is already showing live to viewers of the channel, and recorded by the justin.tv site itself. i can login from any computer and rebroadcast or retrieve my video.

Fa1lzors (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40113445)

approximatelY 90% they want you to numbers continue with any sort Kreskin

So that startup idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40113739)

The hosted MythTV thing would probably be a bad idea huh?

This just in... (1)

jmerlin (1010641) | more than 2 years ago | (#40114319)

Australia sucks. Your women are welcome to venture over to the USA, though :).

Re:This just in... (1)

tqk (413719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40115897)

Australia sucks. Your women are welcome to venture over to the USA, though

The USA's media barons are the ones exporting this insanity to other countries. I'll be happy to spit in your face for allowing that to happen. Fix your government.

oh well another decade then maybe (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40115063)

The old guard can not die off soon enough for me, I am impressed we have as much innovation with the power so many of these companies have over the courts.

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