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The Gamification of Hiring

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the tope-score-profession dept.

Businesses 203

First time accepted submitter funge writes "The Economist has an article on Work and play: The gamification of hiring about a start-up that lets you play games to show off your talents to prospective employers. From the article: 'The rules of Happy Hour are deceptively simple. You are a bartender. Your challenge is to tell what sort of drink each of a swelling mob of customers wants by the expressions on their faces. Then you must make and serve each drink and wash each used glass, all within a short period of time. Play this video game well and you might win a tantalizing prize: a job in the real world.'"

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203 comments

The Terrorists Won The War (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128681)

You see all those new laws all over the world that allow governments to make anyone they want a terrorist?

The real terrorists won.

Re:The Terrorists Won The War (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128729)

You see all those new laws all over the world that allow governments to make anyone they want a terrorist?

No, I'm sorry, I missed it. Too busy gettin' loaded at work.

Re:The Terrorists Won The War (-1, Offtopic)

couchslug (175151) | about 2 years ago | (#40128835)

The terrorists and governments BOTH win when psych cases make posts like yours.

The only way to avoid government mind control is to free your mind by suicide. Please do so now, for your own good. Your mental difficulties will only get worse and there is no such thing as effective psychiatric treatment, which would be under government oversight anyway.

Dance, monkey, dance! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128685)

Seriously, WTF is wrong with employers these days??

Isn't it enough that I went to college and built a solid base of good work I can point to that shows I can do the job?

If you just want someone reliable who is quick to learn and gets things done, don't put me through the wringer like you're a Bachelorette holding out for Prince Charming!

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (5, Insightful)

The Mighty Buzzard (878441) | about 2 years ago | (#40128887)

Those who can, do. Those who can't, manage.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (4, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40130057)

Well put.

The gag is that they learn just that at those management seminars. I kid you not, I was forced to sit through a few of this. It reminded me a lot of kindergarden. Essentially, what you do is sit around and play silly group games. A bunch of people getting to stand on a tiny carpet and have to turn the carpet around without getting off it. I get it, we can only do it if we work together and if some lead and some follow, can I now get out of the armpit of that fat bozo next to me?

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128973)

Sadly, it doesn't matter that you went to college because universities have fallen all over themselves to devalue your degree. Requiring a degree does help employers reduce the number of job applicants to a manageable level, but the skill range of those left is still incredibly broad. As a result, the interview process has gotten more and more elaborate, and games are now just the latest step in an attempt to reduce the applicant pool.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (0)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 2 years ago | (#40129045)

Demand on their time. When twenty people apply for a job, you can interview them all. When a hundred apply, you have to start examining CVs. But now, thanks to the internet, it's routine to get thousands of people apply for one job. What is an employer to do? They need some way to streamline the evaluation process. Games are another attempt to solve this problem.

Many still rely on the simplist possible method though: Grab half the pile of applications and throw them straight in the bin, because there just isn't time to read so many.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (5, Funny)

Dunbal (464142) | about 2 years ago | (#40129145)

When a hundred apply, you have to start examining CVs.

Of course there's another method: take 50 CV's from the pile and throw them in the trash, and tell yourself "there, I got rid of all the unlucky ones".

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129395)

This is actually a rather "sane" approach, in a way... Who would want unlucky employees?

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (5, Informative)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | about 2 years ago | (#40129437)

Demand on their time. When twenty people apply for a job, you can interview them all. When a hundred apply, you have to start examining CVs. But now, thanks to the internet, it's routine to get thousands of people apply for one job. What is an employer to do? They need some way to streamline the evaluation process. Games are another attempt to solve this problem. Many still rely on the simplist possible method though: Grab half the pile of applications and throw them straight in the bin, because there just isn't time to read so many.

I never interview 20 people for a vacancy. I never interview more than 5, and I try to keep it to 3. It's simple to narrow down the field of applications. Our typical announcement will say something like,"Submit cover letter, completed application, resume, and three letters of reference before 3 pm Friday, June 25." Somewhere between 40-60% will fail to have all of those, and they go immediately to the reject pile. If I still have a huge pile, the next sort is made on some relevant criterion. We might have said, "College degree in Industrial Hygiene or related field preferred." If it's an entry level position, I cull out those without a degree. Then I read cover letters. Can you communicate clearly in standard, written English. Spelling errors are fatal. If you don't care enough to press F7, you don't care enough to be trusted with our work product. Now I'm down to a manageable group, which I score on a matrix. Usually there will be a clearly defined top group of 2-5, which I interview. The interview is almost all about how the person will fit into our group, because the finalists can pretty much all do the job. If not, we go back through the pole or go out again. I learned long ago that the wrong hire is hugely worse than an empty chair.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129487)

...Spelling errors are fatal. If you don't care enough to press F7, you don't care enough to ... [post on our forum] ....If not, we go back through the pole or go out again......

Please live up to your statements and kill yourself.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

tycoex (1832784) | about 2 years ago | (#40130329)

Because everyone knows posting on an online forum carries the equivalent importance of a job application.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | about 2 years ago | (#40130167)

will fit into our group

Be careful with that ... A sociopath is much better at playing the "social game" than a good professional whose only fault is being shy or reserved. And I believe you do not want to hire the sociopath.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | about 2 years ago | (#40130381)

You're quite right. One of my more successful recent hires is quite shy. I'm looking more for similarity in professional outlook rather than social skills.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40130261)

You are a poster child for the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (2)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 2 years ago | (#40129997)

When a hundred apply, you have to start examining CVs. But now, thanks to the internet, it's routine to get thousands of people apply for one job. What is an employer to do?

One option is to run them through a spell checker. That will cut the pile in half. People who don't even bother to proofread their own resumes, will probably do a sloppy job at anything.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (5, Interesting)

pitchpipe (708843) | about 2 years ago | (#40129233)

Seriously, WTF is wrong with employers these days??

It's corporatocracy at its finest. With fewer and fewer jobs, and more and more wealth being concentrated in the hands of the few, it is not surprising to see our corporate masters starting to act like the feudal lords of old. We are there for their entertainment.

Because corporations are gathering power over our lives that used to belong only to the government, we need a bill of rights that covers interactions between corporations and individuals, their 'corporations are citizens too' bullshit notwithstanding.

I, for one, do not welcome our corporate overlords.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (5, Insightful)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 2 years ago | (#40129703)

Because corporations are gathering power over our lives that used to belong only to the government, we need a bill of rights that covers interactions between corporations and individuals,

Corporations are gathering power over our lives that never belonged to the government.

There was actually a time when there was something of a balance between the aggregate of labor and the aggregate of capital. People like my grandfather got their heads bashed in so that future workers could have this balance, but an organized, systematic attack on workers' rights by an unholy alliance of the biggest corporations and the corporate royalist politicians like Ronald Reagan and Mitt Romney has created the arena-like atmosphere of today's workplace, where the question is not how small will my annual raise be, but how much of my compensation will I be required to give back to the employer. And those give-backs are certainly not because the corporations aren't profitable, in fact they are profitable at all-time historical levels. Rather those give-backs are meant to create greater separation between a self-appointed elite and the people who actually make the machines go. It wasn't the result of market forces that created this situation, it was the belief that money accumulated is morally superior to money earned. And that sociopathic worldview has destroyed families, communities and sickened society to the point of near collapse. The reason workers are making less, we are told by the likes of Mitt Romney, is because workers are not willing to make less. And tribalism is engaged in the most cynical ways to get people to stand up and demand to not get a pension, to demand to not have the right to collectively bargain, to demand not to be treated with respect. Meanwhile, the "capital management" elite are laughing up their shirtcuffs while voting each other obscene rewards.

And that balance between the power of capital and the power of labor was not only good for the union workers, but it was good for the entire economy, the entire culture. We had an unprecedented period of growth, where workers at all levels of society could have a small measure of dignity, and expectation of a little better life for their kids.

"Class warfare" they accuse, when any mention of their ugly willingness to break the social contract. "Class warfare!". They should only get a taste of real class warfare. Maybe that's the only thing that would make them re-think their destructive ways: actual class warfare. Because it makes one reconsider the errors of one's ways when the head of a colleague ends up on a pike.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40130079)

If it's any comfort to you, it usually ends with the elimination of some heads. It just takes time.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40130309)

We already are in the middle of class warfare. It' s undeclared, and the the 'power elite' don't want the rest of us to know. That's because they are already waging war on the other classes.

If you go back and study the history or the last 50 years or so, one pattern you will see is how the progenitors of the self appointed elite have appropriated language. An example of this idea is that white males are being 'oppressed.' (I'm one). We are, but in quite different ways and to a much lesser degree that say, young black males. Affirmative action had made it harder for a white male to be hired in some situations, but I'm pretty sure I have much less chance of suffering from police harassment or brutality.

I propose that us non-privileged non-elites fight back and do some of our own language appropriating. Every time you hear the boogeyman of "Class Warfare," point out how the upper 1% has been waging war on the rest of us since, I dunno, Saint Regan (sarcasm) was President.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | about 2 years ago | (#40129317)

>Isn't it enough that I went to college and built a solid base of good work I can point to that shows I can do the job?

That is exactly what I look for when hiring. A couple of relevant references would be nice, and depending on the position, I will give you a test when you come in for an interview.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (4, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | about 2 years ago | (#40129377)

I think you're missing the point. The job market for programmers is changing, in Silicon Valley there are now far more positions than programmers. These guys aren't trying to rule out bad programmers, they are trying to attract good ones. (note: if you're going to reply to me saying you still can't find a job, the problem is you not the market).

When kids from college hear that sort of thing, they think, "cool my job interview is a game!" Then they tell their friends, who are immediately jealous. Remember these are kids who've grown up most of their life playing games, have spent much more time playing games than working. It appeals to them. They want to dance.

Note, when I say they are trying to attract talent, I mean they are trying to attract cheap college students, not actual experienced programmers. This kind of thing drives me crazy.

Someday I want to start a company with a bunch of old, experienced, very very good programmers. We will all write solid, readable code, and get things done in an eighth of the time it takes everyone else. It will be wonderful.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

hughbar (579555) | about 2 years ago | (#40129661)

Ha! I'm 61 still programming, having demoted myself back to freelance coding and I'll come and work for you. Just joking, I get plenty of work, for the reasons in your last paragraph, I turn up at the right time each day and get on with it. Also, I've seen plenty of stuff to have fairly good intuitions about what's going to be problematic before we're three months in.

As for the subject of the post, do these HR/cool-corporate trends never end? We're through the bean-bag and table football now, I guess. So, my suggestion for the next cool thing is piggy back races in a room partially filled with jello [that's jelly to us, I'm a Brit] whilst yodelling something appropriate from Britney's back catalogue. Now, there's a test of stamina, multitasking and musical talent.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

bickerdyke (670000) | about 2 years ago | (#40129801)

Well... if THAT fit's your job profile, I'm oik with that.

OTOH, if your job requires some fast respones to external stimuli and remembering stuff, then that game might really do a good job sorting out applicants.

But that's not that type of skillset that you aquire by studying for your master degree.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 2 years ago | (#40130157)

Exactly. Old guys rock! (Assuming they know how to program). And they're experienced so they know how to keep going through the rough patches without burning out (life balance, sense of perspective, and all that). The only reason I can see for hiring a bunch of young programmers is because you can't find enough experienced programmers.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 2 years ago | (#40130393)

There are good reasons and bad reasons for hiring inexperienced programmers. The bad reason is that they're cheap and willing to put up with a lot of crap. The good reason is that they haven't picked up very many bad habits yet. It's usually easier to teach someone good habits than it is to persuade someone to unlearn bad ones. If you're willing to put in effort in terms of mentorship and training, and then make sure that your work environment encourages them to stick around so you reap the rewards, then hiring inexperienced programmer can be a good idea. I can think of a very small number of companies that do this, but they tend to do well. Of course, this requires that you also hire some good, experienced programmers to bootstrap the process...

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (3, Informative)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 2 years ago | (#40129541)

Seriously, WTF is wrong with employers these days??

Isn't it enough that I went to college and built a solid base of good work I can point to that shows I can do the job?

No, that's not enough. Employers want you to be a lot more humble than that. Your solid base of good work and education only means that you'll probably expect to be treated like a human being of value instead of someone desperate, sniveling, insecure.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (2)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 2 years ago | (#40129947)

Isn't it enough that I went to college and built a solid base of good work I can point to that shows I can do the job?

No. That is not enough. I have interviewed many, many people with degrees in computer science who cannot write a program to sort an array of ten integers. Those with a "solid base of good work" often cannot explain any of it, and will eventually admit it was done as a team project.

If you want to work for me, you will have to prove you can write code by writing code.

Re:Dance, monkey, dance! (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40130099)

This. A billion times this.

Throw away your resume and your diploma. I don't want to see either. I want to see your code. If I want anything besides that, I want you to swear that you did it yourself and didn't crib that, because if I wanted that, I could look at your diploma. Hell, how do you think I got mine? :)

But seriously. I've seen far too many people holding degrees that should mean something only to discover what you did: They can't code their way out of a paper bag.

But for that, I don't need them to jump through hoops and beg properly when I hold a doggy biscuit in front of their nose. I need to see their code. Sadly, it's not that easy for HR, so they use doggy biscuits.

The USA is a degrading place to live (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128717)

Let's burn it down and start over.

Re:The USA is a degrading place to live (1)

lennier1 (264730) | about 2 years ago | (#40128947)

The rest of the world isn't that much better. Just nuke the whole fucking planet and call it a day.

Re:The USA is a degrading place to live (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129049)

Can we start with your home town?

Re:The USA is a degrading place to live (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129341)

> Just nuke the whole fucking planet and call it a day.
It's the only way to be sure.

I guess that makes sense (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#40128727)

We've been asking for a meritocracy for a long time, now. How do you expect to prove your merit without some kind of testing?

On the plus side, if you try to go to work for a beer bar you can always just play tapper. Or the minigame in Fable.

Re:I guess that makes sense (3, Insightful)

Shoten (260439) | about 2 years ago | (#40128781)

A meritocracy is about the merits of what you do...this manifests itself in the hiring process as a 'resume'. Obviously, if you haven't been hired yet, you can't stand on the merits of what you have done for the prospective employer yet, so instead it's all about the merits of what you have done for past employers. But this has nothing to do with playing a video game, especially one that uses a fairly arbitrary skill to determine success. I agree that it'd be useful to have fair, objective and broadly applicable metrics for hiring decisions. But at the end of the day, jobs differ enormously, and so do the required skills, suitable temperaments, and even desirable personality traits. And often those factors differ for the same job, when different companies are compared, due to cultural or organizational differences.

Re:I guess that makes sense (4, Insightful)

blackraven14250 (902843) | about 2 years ago | (#40128945)

The thing is that the example in the summary has a clear application to a specific job (bar tending), not general applicability to all jobs. I could see lots of games like this being created for different professions, and used as a skills check before letting someone work. For this one in particular, it answers a couple of the most important questions for a bartender. Can you manage a bunch of people's needs at once effectively? Do you know the mixed drinks? Those two are the sorts of skills that are hard to quantify via an interview alone, and someone can exhibit them for the employer to see while playing the game.

Re:I guess that makes sense (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 2 years ago | (#40129357)

depends on what your future employee wants, if they want someone who will do anything, no matter how ridiculous the request, and never even bat an eye, this this monkey yes-man test is perfect.

The one I went though recently though is much more realistic, working though a temp agency with no promises for 4 months to prove I could do the job and that I was a good fit ... not that I could fuck off on a computer playing video games.

I am now a full employee

Re:I guess that makes sense (2)

Man of E (531031) | about 2 years ago | (#40130091)

There is a startup called Hire Art http://www.hireart.com/ [hireart.com] that's doing something similar without the "gamification". Instead of playing a game like in the article, or going to the other extreme and requiring full-scale work samples, they have smaller-scale tests related to the required skills, including reading comprehension, basic numeracy/statistics, and more technical tests. An employer can choose modules and put together a short test to identify the skills they're looking for. Some tests can be graded automatically, and others are reviewed by humans.

The method in the article is tricky, because creating games for specific jobs is going to be quite time-consuming and psychologically complex. These games are good for hiring bartenders, but what if you want to hire drivers, or data-entry staff, or IT professionals? All different skills and you can't expect to know every business as well as the hiring manager.

So the HireArt approach seems like a good middle ground me: the tests are a slight barrier to the applicant so they don't send millions of copies of their resume hoping to "get lucky" on a job that isn't a match; anyone qualified shouldn't have trouble passing. Meanwhile, both the employer and applicant get a chance to make a first impression without taking too much of each others' time.

From what I hear, it seems to be working quite well so far. Applicants who get interviews are more likely to be good fits.

Disclosure: I know one of the company's founders

Globalization (5, Funny)

mwfischer (1919758) | about 2 years ago | (#40128733)

Muslim... water
Buddhist... water
Hindu... water
Seventh Day.... water
Mormon... actually lost, needs directions

What do I win?

fuck me, this is retarded (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128741)

who's the idiot psychologist who put them onto this shit?

Was TFA ... (3, Insightful)

PPH (736903) | about 2 years ago | (#40128745)

... referring to a job interview for a job as a bartender? Otherwise, what's the point?

Re:Was TFA ... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40130153)

Well, if you can remember a hundred cocktails and recite the ingredients without looking them up, chances are that you're drinking a lot and that I don't want to hire you because it's likely you'll come in on Mondays with a hangover.

And how (3, Insightful)

Janek Kozicki (722688) | about 2 years ago | (#40128757)

is that related to any skills you might need at work?

Re:And how (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128767)

Obey stupid commands, do meaningless tasks and amuse your superiors?

Re:And how (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128901)

Do you get hired if you don't bother washing the glass for someone who is obviously drunk enough not to notice?

Re:And how (1)

artor3 (1344997) | about 2 years ago | (#40129847)

Depends on the job, obviously. Doctors probably get asked questions about lymph nodes, which I'm sure is equally irrelevant to your work. Would you like to complain about that, as well?

My personal experience (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128817)

For years my quiz bowl teacher tested membership based on an untimed written test. I made the quiz bowl team each time, and was captain during the one time when I can recall spending a lot of time after everyone else had finished putting down my answers. Our team only performed remarkably well during its first existence, when it was a different teacher and the team had been composed of a different set of people (I can't recall the evaluation process). I was on that team, but contributed no answers to a 2nd place tournament finish. Whereas the best we ever did after that was 4th. In fact, during one of those days with the new teacher, I can recall that we had a fun match between quiz bowl players and other kids in the gifted program and we got beaten. So in this case, the untimed written test served as a poor evaluation for who would be actually good at playing quiz bowl.

Hence, I would imagine this game would serve as a great way for someone to recognize faces and memorize drinks, but would be a poor way to evaluate whether a clumsy person could actually tend the bar.

Re:My personal experience (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40130127)

Yup. Saw the same thing with our team. Those who were thoughtful and took care to hear, understand, and correctly answer a question got clobbered by those who blurted out the first thing that came to mind.

But this line in the article caught my eye:

Bain & Company, a consultancy, is to run a pilot: it will start by getting current staff to play the games

How interesting would it be to do a blind test of staff and compare their performance reviews with the results of this test?

Domino's PIzza game - job (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128819)

Late to the game. Domino's in my area already advertises an iPad game where you "make" a pizza. I guess if you are "good" enough at some point that qualifies as both the job application, interview, and job offer.

Sad.

Re:Domino's PIzza game - job (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128937)

What's sad, the low educational level of the average Domino's employee or the fact that even though they are poor, they buy iPads?

Re:Domino's PIzza game - job (1)

jittles (1613415) | about 2 years ago | (#40129827)

Please. Domino's pizza has used video games to hire people for YEARS! If you can't beat Avoid The Noid, you don't belong at Domino's! Enough said!

Re:Domino's PIzza game - job (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40130131)

Hey, it weeds out the people who can't hit the pizza with the pepperoni.

Sadly, given the qualification of the average employee, that's necessary to test...

What are they measuring? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128847)

They only thing these games will find are people who are good at playing video games based upon a real job. It would be like hiring pilots on how well they play a flight simulator.

Unfortunately, this will probably take off - business folks follow trends like teenagers follow fads. All you need is one bigshot to say that this is so great and everyone will jump on the bandwagon. For example, the hiring fad of asking stupid questions to see "how the candidates thinks". Like this one time, this recruiter asked, "How many disposable diapers are sold per year?"

What do you think the right answer is?

1. Google it or google how many children under the age of typical potty trained age.

2. Or, pull a number out of your ass about how many babies are born every year and how many are under a certain age, make up a percentage of who wear disposable diapers and do the math.

Answer 2 was the "right" answer. Personally, if someone working for me made shit up and invested resources on numbers out of their ass, I'd be pissed.

Anyway, employers are always looking for that magic bullet to find the best of the best of the best.

Re:What are they measuring? (1)

bunratty (545641) | about 2 years ago | (#40129071)

If you can't come up with a resaonable estimate yourself, how can you trust the information you get from whatever website Google pulls up? I'm glad that employers are starting to see whether prospective employees can actually think for themselves. It's the same reason I'm glad the SAT has a writing section, and the GRE has a section on analytical reasoning that isn't just solving contrived puzzles.

They're NOT reasonable that's thing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129763)

If you can't come up with a resaonable estimate yourself, how can you trust the information you get from whatever website

EVERYONE came up with numbers that were ridiculously wrong; which showed the screening technique is horribly flawed and moronic.

I'm glad that employers are starting to see whether prospective employees can actually think for themselves.

Having someone solve a puzzle would show that - pulling numbers out of your ass doesn't.

It's the same reason I'm glad the SAT has a writing section, and the GRE has a section on analytical reasoning that isn't just solving contrived puzzles.

THOSE problems give data and numbers to solve - as if you were to look them up on google - there isn't any guessing involved. Two different things. If you did what those folks did asking questions like the diaper one above, you would FAIL those exams.

Good grief. That was a very poor attempt at justifying a ridiculous hiring process and makes me glad - even with the extremely difficult time I going through now - that I'm running my own business and that I don't have to put up with such idiocy anymore.

Re:What are they measuring? (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40130145)

I cannot come up with a reasonable estimate of the amount of diapers being sold because it's something I never ever had to consider. I can discriminate between insane and sane answers (It will neither be 10 nor 10 trillions), but aside of that, how should I know? I don't give a shit about babies, even less about baby shit.

pilots use full size flight simulators (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#40129153)

pilots use full size flight simulators and you can simulate lot's real work in them.

Brogrammers wanted (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40128851)

Applicants will be tested on their knowledge of cocktails and lines from road trip movies.

Spotted under the useless "You May Like To Read" (1)

pongo000 (97357) | about 2 years ago | (#40128873)


Gaming Cliches That Need To Die
Submission: Gamification of Hiring

How apropos.

The Last Starfigher (5, Informative)

severett (38602) | about 2 years ago | (#40128891)

In other words someone watched The Last Starfighter. Not exactly a new concept.

Re:The Last Starfigher (1)

cffrost (885375) | about 2 years ago | (#40129617)

In other words someone watched The Last Starfighter. Not exactly a new concept.

Considering the human degradation involved here, I thought maybe these employers had watched Bumfights [wikimedia.org] .

Re:The Last Starfigher (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129629)

No, but between that one and Tron, I spent way too much time on a C64 and at the arcades hoping one or the other would prove true ^^

Re:The Last Starfigher (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 2 years ago | (#40129921)

In other words someone watched The Last Starfighter. Not exactly a new concept.

Also recall the Stargate Universe pilot.

What about learning? (5, Interesting)

utkonos (2104836) | about 2 years ago | (#40128911)

Do you look at how the candidate plays the game after three or four times? Or perhaps you let the candidate play the game for a day, then look at their performance the next day. Are they still not very good at the game, or have they mastered the game?

I would be much more interested in hiring someone who can master the game in a short period of time than someone who passes some lower standard instantly, but stays at that level.

It looks like the answer here ... (3, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | about 2 years ago | (#40128915)

It looks like the answer here is to keep HR away from the bartender and cut off the cocaine supply to those that let them run with this idea.

I know, RTFA is taboo here, but FTFA . . . (3, Informative)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 2 years ago | (#40128997)

"Happy Hour, which will be unveiled to the public on May 28th, is one of several video games developed by Knack, a start-up founded by Guy Halfteck, an Israeli entrepreneur. The games include a version of Happy Hour in which sushi replaces booze, Words of Wisdom (a word game) and Balloon Brigade (which involves putting out fires with balloons and water). They are designed to test cognitive skills that employers might want, drawing on some of the latest scientific research. These range from pattern recognition to emotional intelligence, risk appetite and adaptability to changing situations."

"According to Chris Chabris of the Centre for Collective Intelligence at MIT, a member of the Knack team, games have huge advantages over traditional recruitment tools, such as personality tests, which can easily be outwitted by an astute candidate."

"Some firms seem to see the potential. The GameChanger unit of Shell, which seeks out new disruptive technologies for the oil giant, is about to test if Knack can help it identify innovators. Bain & Company, a consultancy, is to run a pilot: it will start by getting current staff to play the games, to see which skills make for a successful consultant. (The ability to charge a lot for stating the obvious is presumably not one of them.) “If someone can materially improve our ability to select the best talent, that is worth a lot to us,” says Mark Howorth, a recruiter at Bain. And if not, at least the process will be fun."

This might clear up some questions about what this is all about.

Personnel selection is hard. (2)

slasho81 (455509) | about 2 years ago | (#40129009)

Personnel selection is an extremely hard problem. Sorting out people for jobs is one of the most important problems organizations face. It's almost always unrecognized in its complexity, and the majority of decision makers are unaware of the current process's inefficiency and ineffectiveness.

The solution the startup in the post offers is preposterous and obviously ineffective. It's also downright insulting to prospective employees. A degrading selection process will have a negative effect on the quality of the prospective candidate pool you'll have.

If you take into account current research findings and practicality, the best you can do today to select someone for a job is:

1. Only consider candidates with a respectable educational certificate (i.e. those with quality education, either academic or vocational).

2. Let candidates perform a sample of the job they're interviewing for. Score their performance objectively. Select the highest performers.

That's it. No interviews, assessment centers, theoretical exams, references, past job experience, resume screening, etc. They're all worthless and impractical.

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (1)

Surt (22457) | about 2 years ago | (#40129135)

I've always found past job experience + #2 for confirmation to be best. Better, even, than #1 + #2, for anything other than entry level.

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (1)

slasho81 (455509) | about 2 years ago | (#40129257)

The problems with past job experience:

  • * It's hard to verify and therefore heavily fudged. If you select using a heavily and easily fudged indicator, you're just fooling yourself.
  • * Unless the job position is exactly the same as was previously occupied, which is rarely the case, the past experience may not be relevant and it usually isn't.
  • * The fact that candidates have past job experience doesn't indicate whether they were any good at the job. They could have been terrible at the job and got fired, which is why they're now applying to your organization.
  • * And finally and most importantly, requiring past job experience deters or outright rejects capable candidates. Those candidates can be just as capable as those with job experience and they're way cheaper (they're young and eager).

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (1)

Red_Chaos1 (95148) | about 2 years ago | (#40129215)

#1 is retarded. The guy fresh out of school with a piece of paper will not have the breadth and depth of knowledge a guy who has been doing it for over a decade will. Real life knowledge generally trumps book knowledge.

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (1)

slasho81 (455509) | about 2 years ago | (#40129303)

See my other reply regarding past job experience.

The purpose of respectable credentials is to serve as a general quality cutoff point for filtering the candidate pool. Sure, we've all seen great workers without any credentials and terrible workers with plenty of respectable credentials, but those are exceptional anecdotes, not the rule. The group of candidates with respectable credentials are, as a group, much better on every dimension than those without. So it's practical to use respectable credentials as a filter to get the candidate pool to a manageable size.

For job positions which attract only few candidates, you can't and shouldn't use credentials as a filtering tool, obviously.

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129343)

He did not say "fresh out of school with a piece of paper." He said have "a respectable educational certificate." One can have a respectable educational certificate even if one is not fresh out of school. You are comparing apples (experience) to oranges (education).

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129463)

Real life knowledge generally trumps book knowledge.

Is just something retards with low IQs say.

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40130181)

My last IQ test wants to have a word with you.

I have both, a well rounded education and quite a bit of experience, but if I had to choose between them, I'd take the latter. Anyone can get that sheet of toilet paper called master's degree.

I notice it in every other job interview...

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129315)

Personnel selection is an extremely hard problem.

Only if you are not able to sort out the job the applicant needs to do yourself.

Re:Personnel selection is hard. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129769)

It's easy to tell you've never hired anyone before; your process fails to screen for personality dysfunctions.

Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster (1)

drumlight (1244276) | about 2 years ago | (#40129027)

I've never failed to get a job after serving the interviewer with a Gargle Blaster and despite the reoccurring dreams noticing I'm half naked in the middle of the interview has never been a hindrance.
On the other hand being over qualified, under qualified or just plain nervous have been problems. I'm glad it turns out that in these cases the interviewer was in the wrong rather than myself.

what about more apprenticeships / tech schools (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#40129037)

what about more apprenticeships / tech schools where you can test people on real skills and have tests based on real work.

Also you don't want tests that people can ace by cramming but don't know about stuff the test covers.

also don't use Degrees (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#40129047)

so what happens when you get people who get a good score on the test but then get told they don't have a Degree so you end taking some with a Degree and a very low score on the test.

personality tests can trip up good peopel with the (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#40129073)

personality tests can trip up good people with there odd questions.

OK now asking the same thing over and over is there to see if you answer the same why but some times changing the question can change the answer.

also border line questions are hard to find out what they want the answer to be.

Basically WTF (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40129299)

WTF is this load of bollocks other than exactly that a load of bollocks getting a job is fuckall to do with a game some right wanker needs his dick removing and shoving donw the windpipe it would then become a wankpipe very apt

Interesting concept with one small flaw... (1)

interval1066 (668936) | about 2 years ago | (#40129655)

Sounds very similar to OMG POP [omgpop.com] , ostensibly a geek singles site wherein contestants play games for the right to woo the game hoster. Members (free reg) can host "game rooms" populated by up to about 5 or other members, and the "hoster" can pick from a large list of games. Popular is a game very similar to "Draw Something" for smart phones. The problem was, at least for me, even after winning a game it wasn't clear to me how to contact the "hoster", nor how to even know that I was inteterested in the user. These "game rooms" come and go very quickly, so doing research on the "hoster" is a bit of a hurried chore. I quickly grew tired of it opting for more traditional singles sites. Interesting concept but not really practical in my opinion.

On a different, but related note, employers who use a complex task/test to filter out canidates put them selves at a disadvantage for a very similar reason; while looking for gigs I recently was asked by one prospect to build a PHP shopping cart apllication from scratch. After spending several hours on the project I got a call from another prospect whoh just wanted me to jump in and get something done. Guess which employer I picked?

End run around the ADA? (3, Insightful)

subreality (157447) | about 2 years ago | (#40129777)

Your challenge is to tell what sort of drink each of a swelling mob of customers wants by the expressions on their faces

That sounds to me like they want to filter out Aspergers / autism spectrum applicants, but they can't actually say that since it'd violate the ADA, so this test lets them accomplish that in a legally deniable way.

Discrimination suit waiting to happen... (2)

He Who Has No Name (768306) | about 2 years ago | (#40129935)

...from somebody who doesn't drink or go to bars and therefore has no familiarity with mixed drinks or the culture of bar attendance. Like, say, Mormons, Muslims, or... eh, me.

Re:Discrimination suit waiting to happen... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40130193)

Is "the way you like to party" a protected class?

Discrimination (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40130071)

Sexuality has no place in hiring.

The gamification of... (2)

gagol (583737) | about 2 years ago | (#40130355)

Or how to manage a peter pan generation that just don't want to grow up and work.
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