Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

US Ordered To Hand Over Megaupload Documents

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the hope-you-didn't-break-anything dept.

The Courts 242

An anonymous reader writes "A judge in New Zealand has ordered the U.S. government to hand over evidence seized in the Megaupload raid so Kim Dotcom and his co-defendants can use it to prepare a defense for an extradition hearing. The judge wrote, 'Actions by and on behalf of the requesting State have deprived Mr. Dotcom and his associates of access to records and information. ... United States is attempting to utilize concepts from the civil copyright context as a basis for the application of criminal copyright liability [which] necessitates a consideration of principles such as the dual use of technology and what they be described as significant non-infringing uses.' Once the defense attorneys have gathered and presented their evidence, the judge must decide whether the U.S. can make a reasonable case against Dotcom."

cancel ×

242 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Dear USA (5, Insightful)

overbaud (964858) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152693)

Please leave the rest of the world alone. Thankyou.

Re:Dear USA (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152787)

Much as we would like them too, the american way of life requires that they control the flow of fuel, materials and goods inward and intangible imaginary goods in exchange (since increasingly they produce very little.)

And anyway they are the good guys, god in on their side, and they want it, so there.

Re:Dear USA (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152905)

The US produces very little? It's incredibly obvious to tell you're trolling with statements like that.

Re:Dear USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152933)

since 'statistically' increasingly they produce very little

and regarding the the balance of payments deficit you would say this is indicitive of...

Re:Dear USA (5, Interesting)

baileydau (1037622) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153125)

The US produces very little? It's incredibly obvious to tell you're trolling with statements like that.

Actually from my point of view, I'd have to agree with the GP.

I can't think of a single item I own that was actually made in USA. I own plenty of stuff made by US companies, but as far as I'm aware not on US soil.

At one stage I thought my mountain bike was actually made in the US, but then I found a sticker that disproved that (can't remember where it said now)

A brief survey of most stuff I own indicates that most of it came from China, followed by Taiwan and various other Asian countries.

That's one of the big issues I see with the "first world". We don't actually make the stuff any more that got us to that position in the first place. How long before the rest of the world doesn't need us any more?

Re:Dear USA (3, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153233)

Thats interesting, considering the heritage of the works at the core of this case - or are we limiting the topic to physical goods only?

Re:Dear USA (0, Redundant)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153241)

Are they the property of Columbia Tristar or Sony Music?

Re:Dear USA (3, Insightful)

MrAngryForNoReason (711935) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153245)

That's one of the big issues I see with the "first world". We don't actually make the stuff any more that got us to that position in the first place. How long before the rest of the world doesn't need us any more?

This argument pretty much disproves itself. Other countries need countries like the USA because of the point you are making. Manufacturing products for US companies is a big part of the economy in a lot of countries. As countries like China continue to develop their manufacturing industry they will continue to need Western countries to provide a market for their home grown products.

This is how the world economy works. Different countries economies are based on different things and they trade.

Re:Dear USA (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153393)

The US produces very little? It's incredibly obvious to tell you're trolling with statements like that.

Actually from my point of view, I'd have to agree with the GP.

I can't think of a single item I own that was actually made in USA. I own plenty of stuff made by US companies, but as far as I'm aware not on US soil.

At one stage I thought my mountain bike was actually made in the US, but then I found a sticker that disproved that (can't remember where it said now)

A brief survey of most stuff I own indicates that most of it came from China, followed by Taiwan and various other Asian countries.

That's one of the big issues I see with the "first world". We don't actually make the stuff any more that got us to that position in the first place. How long before the rest of the world doesn't need us any more?

Posts like this are one of the reasons I rarely visit slashdot anymore. The GP is a contentless one-liner marked +5 insightful. The parent says the USA doesn't make anything, when a quick wikipedia search reveals, "The United States is the world's largest manufacturer, with a 2009 industrial output of US$2.33 trillion. Its manufacturing output is greater than of Germany, France, India, and Brazil combined" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States

Then else where in the thread, we have crackpots making grand conspiracy theories about the United States, +5 insightful of course. *Sigh* I think this will be my last post on slashdot.

Re:Dear USA (4, Interesting)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153411)

    The US still exports gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, the majority from imported crude oil. We also export "computers and electronics", which the components are provided by overseas firms. For example, if Dell sells a metric fucktonne of computers from the US warehouses, it was an "export", even though it was assembled in a foreign country with foreign parts. Our other major exports are transportation equipment, chemicals, machinery, and agricultural products.

    That ignores the real problem though. The components use to make most of those are manufactured out of country. The US has gone from being an industrial source, to being an industrial middle-man. So, you will find stickers indicating almost everything you buy was manufactured in foreign countries. Quite a bit of the food you eat was grown in foreign countries. The car you drive, or at least the components, came from foreign countries.

    Being an industrial middle-man has benefits for the corporations based here, but for few others. They already know it's cheaper to manufacture overseas. They can have their call centers overseas. Since the US economy is down, they sell overseas. That leaves fewer and fewer jobs in the US, less consumer spending capability in the US, and is drawing us down into the collapse of the US economy.

Re:Dear USA (5, Insightful)

The Master Control P (655590) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152909)

You know, manufacturing in the US has actually kept going up ever since the 80s. It just doesn't employ anyone any more because it's more cost effective to pay an engineer here to design an automated shop that employs 10 people instead of 500.

Re:Dear USA (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152941)

Or use Apple's approach. Do the design in the US, where you have a ready supply of the highest skilled workers in the world, but do the manufacturing somewhere like China to take advantage of much lower costs for unskilled and low-skill workers.

Re:Dear USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153085)

"supply of the highest skilled workers in the world"

Can you prove that claim?

Re:Dear USA (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153109)

Have you tried to use a puck mouse?

Someone HAD to be high for that one.

Re:Dear USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153147)

but do the manufacturing somewhere like China to take advantage of much lower costs for unskilled and low-skill workers.

Are you really implying that Chinese workers in those warehouses are unskilled? Are you fucking nuts? Try going there and work in the skin of one and then tell me again who is unskilled.

You Sir, are fucking moron. I also have my PhD and I'm doing office work but that doesn't mean I have the right to judge other people doing manual labor.

It is because of people like you that we have the first-world / second-world delimitation.

Re:Dear USA (4, Informative)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153277)

first-world / second-world originally meant US-aligned vs Soviet-aligned countries. The third-world meant unaligned countries.

Re:Dear USA (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153267)

Keeps going up but I don't have anything manufactured over there anymore... I used to.

Re:Dear USA (5, Insightful)

mechtech256 (2617089) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152875)

New Zealand is responsible for what they do in their own backyard with their own police forces. If they want to surrender their sovereignty to a bunch of RIAA/MPAA hacks who have paid off the right people, that's their prerogative. It's obvious that they've realized the mistake and are trying to make things right, but in the end it's NZ that screwed up here.

Re:Dear USA (5, Interesting)

boundary (1226600) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153153)

It is absolutely not our (the New Zealand people's) prerogative. This whole situation occurred because the NZ Police (none of whom are elected) thought they could get some international glory from a big case. They failed to do their research. They failed to follow proper procedure. They failed to use appropriate force. They failed on every account. And now they look like the try-hard asswipes that they are. If this was a one-off I'd be mildly surprised, but it has happened before, and it's making me feel quite nauseous. For example the NZ Defence Force has been caught on numerous times sucking up to the yanks just to improve their chances of being involved in military exercises, which was in strict contravention of the orders they received from the NZ Government at the time. They are out of control. So are the cops. Small men in large uniforms, thinking their dicks will grow bigger if they chum up to the big boys. Everyone, without exception, that I have talked to about this in NZ is absolutely disgusted with the way things have turned out. Blaming NZ is a total cop-out. The cops are at fault, for sure, but how about the US taking the requisite amount of blame for creating the conditions where their entertainment/copyright assholes are running riot across the globe, and the US government is materially supporting them?

Re:Dear USA (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153287)

NZ are guilty of bending over and saying "please sir, some more please" to the RIAA/USA megalomaniacs. Spineless sheep (go figure: 4 million people and 16 million sheep).

Re:Dear USA (2, Insightful)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152901)

Please leave the rest of the world alone. Thankyou.

You're far too polite.

Re:Dear USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152907)

Europeans: Stop making reflexive anti-American statements at every opportunity. Thank you.

Re:Dear USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152989)

Europeans: Stop making reflexive anti-American statements at every opportunity. Thank you.

Not a chance in hell.
Now if we could get those trashy Ukers to actually stop considering themselves the 51st american state in all but name that'll be a good day.

Re:Dear USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153081)

I thought our government (canada) was vying for that position.

Re:Dear USA (0)

JWSmythe (446288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153445)

    I thought the US already annexed Canada. Statehood will come later on, when it has a strategic interest. Don't worry, it'll be done properly on paper once we need your fresh water and oil reserves.

Re:Dear USA (0)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153135)

Europeans: Stop making reflexive anti-American statements at every opportunity. Thank you.

Not a chance in hell. Now if we could get those trashy Ukers to actually stop considering themselves the 51st american state in all but name that'll be a good day.

You might get your wish. If Scotland gets independence then we may well consider ourselves the 51st and 52nd state.

Re:Dear USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153151)

I'm pretty sure the Scottish plan is to somehow join Scandinavia, at least that's how one of them explained it to me.

I'm not entirely sure how they plan on pulling it off but sure seems ambitious.

Re:Dear USA (5, Funny)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153161)

Bombs along Hadrian's wall and the a LOT of rowing...

Re:Dear USA (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153201)

I'm pretty sure the Scottish plan is to somehow join Scandinavia,

I'd be interested to know what the Scandinavians think about this!

Re:Dear USA (0)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153321)

I'm pretty sure the Scottish plan is to somehow join Scandinavia,

I'd be interested to know what the Scandinavians think about this!

Re:Dear USA (1)

sander (7831) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153457)

They are rather positive about this. Why would they not be?

Re:Dear USA (2)

Coisiche (2000870) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153209)

I'm pretty sure the Scottish plan is to somehow join Scandinavia

You have seen the Swedish women's beach volleyball team, right?

Re:Dear USA (4, Interesting)

Coisiche (2000870) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153259)

More seriously, the SNP did hold up the "arc of prosperity" of the Republic of Ireland, Iceland and Norway as the shining examples of how small Atlantic nations could be amazingly prosperous and how much better it would be if Scotland was independent and part of that...

Fast forward a couple of years and Ireland is tanked by being one of the loser economies in the Euro (a currency which basically only works for Germany and while the French might think it works for them too, I think they have a surprise brewing) and Iceland banks got shredded by their exposure to toxic assets forcing the whole nation to the brink.

Which basically just leaves Norway doing well out of the original "arc of prosperity". So the current SNP line is "things would be better if we were like Norway".

Re:Dear USA (2)

sa1lnr (669048) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153031)

Europeans: Stop making reflexive anti-American statements at every opportunity. Thank you.

Last time I looked Australia and New Zealand were not part of Europe.

Re:Dear USA (1)

ciderbrew (1860166) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153093)

No, but they do belong to the Queen. And the Commonwealth has slightly more money down the back of the sofa that Europe at the moment. But geographically you are CORRECT!

Maybe he was just making a general request.

Re:Dear USA (1)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153159)

And the Commonwealth has slightly more money down the back of the sofa that Europe at the moment.

No its still smaller. Without India it would be a lot smaller

Re:Dear USA (1)

ciderbrew (1860166) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153427)

I've not been able to find the collective debt of the commonwealth. I'm sure Europe can still be proud of the amount it holds.

Re:Dear USA (1)

rossdee (243626) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153307)

In the Geographical sense Oz and NZ are as far away from Europe as you can get (NZ is exactly opposite Spain in fact) but in terms of Intelectual Property they are included in Europe (for example DVD region codes)

Re:Dear USA (3, Informative)

Adrian Harvey (6578) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153437)

Sorry, the DVD region code for NZ is 4. The UK and Europe is 2 (see wikipedia [wikipedia.org] ). Fortunately enforcing the suppliers use of region locking on DVD players was ruled a breach of our competition legislation (which explicitly makes parallel importing legal) and our copyright act explicitly excludes region locking as a proctection measure See here [legislation.govt.nz] So almost all DVD players are sold unlocked.

Re:Dear USA (0, Flamebait)

Mr. Underbridge (666784) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152969)

....until the next time we really, really need you to bail us out of a jam.

Hey, the US has tried to play isolationist a few times, it seems to be Europe that keeps begging us back out of retirement. Just sayin'.

As an example, I'm assuming that Europe absolutely will not be seeking any sort of economic assistance from the US as part of the sovereign debt problems that seem to be facing 2/3 of that continent. And I'm also certain that Japan, SK, and Taiwan would be A-OK with us removing any and all support that has helped stabilize that region. Admittedly we've fucked up the whole middle east thing, but it was sort of our turn since everybody else has over the last couple thousand years.

As an American, we're used to the "Go away until we need your resources to solve our problems, at which we will act like ungrateful bastards about it" thing. Keep it up.

Re:Dear USA (0, Troll)

lexa1979 (2020026) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153023)

Yes, we need your resources to save our asses from the problems you created first. Capitalism and Freedom, the American way, is NOT what humanity needed, but it is what you exported during numerous wars all over the world these last 2 centuries. Your only goal is to "buy" new customers, you convert them to your culture either by war or by advertisements, then you don't understand why they can't continue to pay ? Hell, you're doing everything to be the only one to sell stuffs on the "converted world". And I participate in this... An ungrateful bastard.

Re:Dear USA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153335)

We created? You guys are the ones that decided to create the Euro to compete with us and failed to take into account the fact that there's more than just one government involved.

In the US we're doing just peachy. There are still issues, but they're resolving themselves, and I'd thank you guys not to flush us down the toilet with you this time. You wouldn't be having these problems if they were just of American doing.

Re:Dear USA (2)

cpghost (719344) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153025)

As an example, I'm assuming that Europe absolutely will not be seeking any sort of economic assistance from the US as part of the sovereign debt problems that seem to be facing 2/3 of that continent.

Considering that the US's sovereign debt is already way higher than most of Europe's; the only way the US can help is by having the FED keeping up with the ECB in printing fresh new more and more worthless money (so the USD exchange rate to the EUR won't climb way too high). And this, the FED is doing on its own, without Europe even asking for it.

Re:Dear USA (2, Insightful)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153359)

The theory the FED operates under is that they are actually hurting Europe doing that. They think it protects the US export market by keeping products affordable for Europeans. To some simplistic extent they are correct.

Don't be fooled into think they are doing you any favors though. Its not about defending American jobs, and they ignoring the consequence to the average Joe with a passbook savings account. This is really about protecting the equity, derivative, and insurances bets made by them member banks.

End the Fed

Re:Dear USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153053)

It has happened in the past and it may happen again in the future. But *this time*, you bitches need something from us. And we're still figuring out if we'll give it to you or not.

Regards,
New Zealand.

Re:Dear USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153133)

Seriously, go learn about some actual REAL history and stop swallowing constant US propaganda and rewritings.

I honestly don't care enough to point you in the numerous directions you so obviously need to investigate and I'm sorry to say that the vast majority of USAians I've encountered in person/online/via their media are exactly the same type of jingoistic, propaganda swallowing suckers.

Basically when you think 'AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!' please understand the rest of the world* thinks 'AMERICA! OH FFS! NOT AGAIN! WHAT THE FUCK?!?! KEEP YOUR NOSE OUT... JUST FUCK OFFFFFF!!!'

*citation: go fuck yourself.

Re:Dear USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153205)

Which shitty country are you from? Tell us all about your third world hell hole. Why are you commenting on an American website supported by ad-revenue from mostly American companies. Kindly fuck off.

Re:Dear USA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153319)

How about YOU kindly go get fucked by your couple-of-hundred-year-history country while I get fucked by the country that explored the world and found/settled your (current)shithole. We got over the 'RULE BRITANNIA FUCK YEAH' with some big doses of reality - which is what you'll be receiving seeing as you country has passed the apex and is in an obvious, frantic decline.

The point is: 'USA FUCK YEAH!' only applies in USA... everyone else is tired of it, you fucking terrorists*

* what else do you call people who fight against their own govt and take control?? Never mind what happens in this day and age...

Re:Dear USA (0)

geekymachoman (1261484) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153221)

Mr Underbridge. With all due respect, please stop meddling in other people's affairs. I hate to repeat myself, but there's always one like you showing up on each topic like this. And it will be like that for a long long time. When you're imperialistic gov crumbles, new guys will spring up, and in no-time... our children will have the same discussion as we do now.

I understand that your perception of your country is different from perception of outside observer, but when it comes to "your foreign policy", outside observer has more to say then you, because your "foreign policy" affects _us_ more then you. I also reckon that you don't leave your country much, and if you do, you don't go out for long to notice what's really happening, if you did.. you wouldn't write what you just did.

If you want to comment, and propagate your opinions around, please make an effort to inform yourself at least, and by make an effort don't just turn on cnn/whatever, rather do some independent research. If you don't care for that, then please stfu. I don't care about gardening, and I ain't sticking my nose on gardening topics and annoying people there. Get the point ?

And last but not least... _please stop helping us, please_.

Re:Dear USA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153227)

Just try to remember WHO helped you get your independence.
Otherwise at this rate you'd still be an english colony, and France would have a third of the continental US and Spain/Mexico the rest.

Re:Dear USA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153005)

Please leave the rest of the world alone. Thankyou.

Yes, we should withdraw from the U.N, halt foreign trade & aid programs, and cut all travel / communication. A+ firstpost from the apologist for the fat douchebag

Re:Dear USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153239)

If the US cuts all of that along with all those wars, abuses and imperialistic actions, yes, do that for whatever price.

Err.. yeah.. no. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153177)

Stop stealing American movies, music, software and games. Why are you guys so desperate for American made stuff? Should we just arrange for some pity donations of CDs and other media so you can enjoy some decent entertainment? :D :D

Didn't see that one coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152695)

Oh goody, a THINKING judge has got the rubber-stamping MPAA/RIAA bribed USA attorneys by the nuts!

Re:Didn't see that one coming... (1)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152711)

But does it have to be in behalf of Kimmy? Of all the poor bastards that got into the crosshairs of the US copyright mafia? I really start to wonder if that guy just has too much luck or whether something else is going on.

Re:Didn't see that one coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152769)

The easiest way to get the law working for you is to be rich. The MPAA is rich. Kim Jong Dotcom is rich. Quite the conundrum.

Re:Didn't see that one coming... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152777)

He's got enough money to fight it, most poor suckers get bent over a barrel. They thought megaupload would be a soft target but he has the money for his lawyers to argue due process.

Re:Didn't see that one coming... (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153291)

Only if he wins. All of his money was seized by the New Zealand, Dutch, British, Hong Kong, and American governments. He's actually poor.

Wow (1)

Scoldog (875927) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152735)

This is going to be interesting. Considering how the US has been handling these file sharing cases, do you think they would willingly hand over the evidence (anyone know what the evidence is exactly?) or not hand it over, but keep making noise about it being illegal (maybe throw out the IP argument).

As cynical as I am, I reckon they would hand it over. The US lawmakers would be frothing at the bit to get him to the States, and I doubt they'd try and stuff it up.

docs need to prove conspiracy.. (4, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152753)

docs need to prove conspiracy for extradition.

however, the defense would like it's hand on the evidence so they can show the police fucked up(afaik the computers are supposed to have security cam footage from the raid).

this is also a test if the fbi/etc can even hand over the evidence(I suppose they should have also had something prior to the bust to prove the conspiracy)...

Re:docs need to prove conspiracy.. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152851)

INAL but from what I've been reading it's more complex then that, the conspiracy/ racketeering and money laundering charges only stick if they can show criminal copyright infringement. Problem is copyright infringement is civil issue in NZ AND they need to show probable success of conviction for crimes with at least a 5 year jail term in NZ before extradition can even go ahead.

Conspiracy to commit a crime carries a maximum penalty of 5 years so qualifies, but they need to show both likely hood of conspiracy and the original crime.

A laymans example would be: I think you and your friend conspired to cheat on a test. I may have emails showing you conspired but I can't just have you extradited by showing conspiracy, I have to convince a judge that cheating on a test is a criminal offence first. A much taller order.

Also remember that the judge has already stated his displeasure with the failure to follow due process in the initial arrest and has required the crown to guarantee to cover costs and lost income if kim dotcom is not found guilty.

-Kactus

Re:docs need to prove conspiracy.. (4)

ciderbrew (1860166) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153143)

I like reading about a decent Judge. It's like hope for the world.

Re:docs need to prove conspiracy.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153449)

Also remember that the judge has already stated his displeasure with the failure to follow due process in the initial arrest and has required the crown to guarantee to cover costs and lost income if kim dotcom is not found guilty.

-Kactus

The crown? That is, the NZ government, not the US one? Brilliant.

- A Kiwi (albeit expatriate)

Take note (1)

distilate (1037896) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152759)

If this happened in Australia Kim would altready be in US custardy.

NZ purposly made legal mistakes and are now intentionally hindering the US!

Re:Take note (1)

RzTen1 (1323533) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152775)

NZ purposly made legal mistakes and are now intentionally hindering the US!

Wouldn't that also imply that they purposely killed megaupload? What would they gain from that?

Re:Take note (5, Funny)

QQBoss (2527196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152883)

If this happened in Australia Kim would altready be in US custardy.

NZ purposly made legal mistakes and are now intentionally hindering the US!

It is distinctly possible that the USA would jail Kim for as long as they could, but it is highly unlikely they would ever attempt to turn him into a creme brulee.

Wait, NOW!?!? (4, Insightful)

MrDoh! (71235) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152761)

The NZ authorities didn't have this information before? They've destroyed a company, cost the 'innocent until proven guilty' person great harm, and NZ hasn't even seen the evidence yet to allow the raid? Good grief.

Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (4, Insightful)

Captain Hook (923766) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152853)

The NZ authorities didn't have this information before?

They aren't saying they haven't seen enough evidence to say Dotcom is guilty of a crime, they are saying that he has a right to defend himself against extradition and that defense needs to be able to review evidence for and against that charge.

Having said that, I think NZ sleep walked into a political quagmire which they would be very happy to get out of with the least amount of embarrassment. It would be very useful for them to find a reason not to extradite Dotcom because then they could say they followed the International Treaties with the US that they had to but their own courts also protected someone from illegal extradition.

Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (5, Interesting)

X.25 (255792) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153323)

They aren't saying they haven't seen enough evidence to say Dotcom is guilty of a crime, they are saying that he has a right to defend himself against extradition and that defense needs to be able to review evidence for and against that charge.

Various news outlets in NZ tried to talk to just about everyone (PM, Crown, etc) and find out whether FBI presented evidence (and what evidence was that) before raid was ordered, who exactly authorized the raid, negotiated with FBI, etc.

Everyone refused to talk to media about these issue. As if they're not public servants paid by taxpayers' money, but working in a private company and can decline to comment.

In short - noone (except police, I guess) knows what evidence NZ police has seen before the raid. They might have not seen any evidence, for all we know.

Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (4, Funny)

BlueStrat (756137) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152899)

The NZ authorities didn't have this information before? They've destroyed a company, cost the 'innocent until proven guilty' person great harm, and NZ hasn't even seen the evidence yet to allow the raid? Good grief.

See, you weren't there for "the call".

US DoJ: OK, this Dotcom guy has to be raided.

NZ official: But you haven't even presented us any evidence against him whatsoever!

US DoJ: Speaking of evidence, did you know that US SIGINT is the best on the planet? Did you know we have recordings/copies of all the emails, phone calls, and other electronic data, including photos and videos, sent and received by all the top NZ politicians and government officials? In fact I remember seeing something with your name on it concerning a string of calls to a "transvestite escort service", I think it was?

NZ official: What time do you want us to hit the bastard?

Strat

Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (2)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152991)

I highly doubt NZ acted with 0 evidence, there are obviously 2 different categories of evidence. The evidence that lead to the raid, and the evidence from the raid. No different than say a drug bust, prior to a drug bust the police would have video, etc... showing things being trafficed into and out of the place in question. After the bust they would have say, a warehouse full of drugs, documents detailing the suppliers/customers etc... Both would be used in the case against the person, the first is enough for arrest, and in theory the 2nd should be enough for conviction. I'm pretty sure allowing the raid meant NZ had the equivelant of the former, the latter is certainly needed in order to secure a conviction, and both should be reviewed by the defendant if he is to have a fair trial.

Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (4, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153265)

well, if you count going purely on fbi agents word then they didn't act with zero evidence. if they had gone with something more substantial the raid wouldn't have needed to be in such a hurry and could have gone through the proper procedure - but as it is the warrant could probably have been fought against legally - had they been given the chance.

obviously the nz authorities assumed that fbi wouldn't be bullshitting so badly but they were, full knowing that the actual suspected crime wasn't enough for extradition even.

and the fbi agents thought they could get kim to settle "for less jailtime" regardless of the actual crime since that's the standard in usa - and now they're in trouble because they would need to come up with some real evidence to show that it's actually a criminal case that should be tried in usa.

Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (4, Insightful)

Zocalo (252965) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152993)

This would be information seized during the raid, so no, the NZ authorities obviously didn't get to see it before approving the raid. As far as I am aware, a fair trial in the US, and presumably NZ, requires that the defence team have access to all of the data gathered by the prosecution so there's a potential for this to backfire on the US big time. By all accounts Kim seems to be something of a scumbag, but so far, in this matter at least, he is still innocent until proven guilty; since there are growing grounds for a mistrial due to withholding evidence it's entirely possible that the NZ judge could react to further shenanigans by simply throwing the case out and denying extradition. That would leave Kim unable to travel to the US or certain other countries with favourable extradition treaties, but given some of the alternatives I doubt he'd be complaining too much.

Re:Wait, NOW!?!? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153237)

apparently nz authorities didn't get to see any evidence before the raid either and fucked up handing over the warrant to megaupload too so they(mu) could have asked for it. it seems from the reports that usa authorities before the raid made up kim look like a financial conspirator, something much severe in legal terms than copyright infringement. the nz authorities went with just fbi agents word on the case and are now starting to hopefully pay the price(and so fbi/nz relations too).

(too bad usa is wasting more resources on this than actual financial conspirators)

No shit (0)

oldhack (1037484) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152827)

Kiwi judge tell the US government: "Hand it over, mofo, or else"

The US gov't: Go ahead, punk, make my day.

Re:No shit (2)

Rakshasa-sensei (533725) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152847)

I hear judges the world over are very receptive to being told to fuck off. It makes them warm and fuzzy inside.

Victory for this battle is to MPAA (4, Insightful)

rgbe (310525) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152829)

Regardless if the US produce evidence or not. The Megaupload saga can be considered a success by the US authorities, MPAA, etc. Because they have destroyed Megaupload and all alternate providers like Megaupload are shaking in their pants. They have one this battle. But the war rages.

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152857)

Regardless if the US produce evidence or not. The Megaupload saga can be considered a success by the US authorities, MPAA, etc. Because they have destroyed Megaupload and all alternate providers like Megaupload are shaking in their pants. They have one this battle. But the war rages.

But what if they rise again? And become the biggest? Doesn't sound sound like a win, but a big fail. This means the mpaa can be beaten at their own game.

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (4, Interesting)

xenobyte (446878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152921)

Actually - as this thing is going it is more than likely that the US will loose and fail to get any extradition or other conviction.

Remember, everything hinges on thumped-up charge of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement which is ludicrous because MegaUpload did not sell access to the illegal stuff, nor did they ask or otherwise entice the pirates to use their services. They were just one of many cloud storage and sharing service providers that both pirates and everybody else used. You paid for longer storage time, more storage space and more bandwidth to access/download. Access was free otherwise, which means that downloaders didn't pay for access but paid for ease of access.

Oh, and when the US loses this case, I can't wait for the counter-suit for damages. I would laugh my pants off when the US government is ordered to cover the damages incurred during this farce of a trial. I hope Kim Dotcom takes them to the cleaners and take everything to the max. Get them to pay so obscene amounts that heads will have to roll and the collaboration with the copyright MAFIAA is dropped like a hot potato.

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153281)

one

loose

Gotta love International Engrish...

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153381)

There are a few bullet points in the US case that are against DotCom (I don't juge their actuel merit or relevance, I'm no lawyer, but they were raised when the raid occured).

* there are internal emails about content they knew was pirated (like "hey, I want to see a movie, what's hot ?" "well every one is getting this cam version of this blockbuster movie that was just uploaded").
* they didn't really do due diligence when removing infringing content. The same (infringing) content could have multiple links to it. When a content owner reported a link, they remove just the link, not the infringing content.

Those 2 points are somewhat relevant to a "safe harbour" defense for content hosts because you are supposed to remove content ASAP whenever you are aware of one. The 1st point is about content the employees are aware of. And the 2nd point is about knowing that the content is infringing, whatever link is used to retrieve it.

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153055)

If he wins then whats to say he won't start a megaupload.co.nz and all those alternative providers moving to New Zealand?

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153181)

Unless of course Kim wins, fucks them up and gets Megaupload back online. Then it'll just be another case of The Pirate Bay but for the first time (?) with a file locker.

If there is pretty much no evidence anywhere, they are going to get smashed so hard over this.
Nothing will happen, admittedly, because the law in the good ol' US of A is corrupt as high hell. Satan would be proud.

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153295)

They have one this battle.

"One"? Seriously?

What is going wrong with this site's constituency?

Re:Victory for this battle is to MPAA (1)

cardpuncher (713057) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153391)

alternate providers ... are shaking in their pants

I think that proves that enough porn has already been downloaded for their further services to be unnecessary.

I observed an unusual tone in the statement... (4, Interesting)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152891)

"A judge in New Zealand has ordered the U.S. government to hand over evidence seized in the Megaupload raid so Kim Dotcom and his co-defendants can use it to prepare a defense for an extradition hearing..."(bold/italics mine)

Usually, it is the US that orders other jurisdictions to hand over stuff...not the other way round! This leads me to one conclusion:

It will not work! This request is DoA! Moot...name it!

Re:I observed an unusual tone in the statement... (4, Insightful)

PARENA (413947) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152975)

Well, if they don't hand it over, then I reckon the case for extradition will be thrown out and Dotcom is free to go. Not to the US, obviously... So it's in the their best interest to provide the requested evidence.

America, fuck yeah (3, Funny)

Psychotria (953670) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152893)

Actually I would like to correct that: America, fuck you.

Re:America, fuck yeah (1)

psiclops (1011105) | more than 2 years ago | (#40152971)

theres nothing wrong with the parts of america that aren't the US

Re:America, fuck yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153397)

There are no such parts, unless you're one of those idiots that doesn't know anything about context.

Wisdom follows, pay attention! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40152949)

> A judge in New Zealand has ordered the U.S. government to hand over evidence seized in

Corrected for you:

A judge in New Zealand has expressed his utmost respect for the federal government of the USA and the great military might it possesses and most respectfully asked the USA to hand over evidence seized, if and when they see fit.

You see NZ has no air force, since their communist govt scrapped even their few jets to pay welfares and now they suck on the tits of AU and US for defence against chinese fleets coming to their shore. China is very, very interested in the fertile lands of NZ and as an unsinkable aircraft carrier for use in a backstab attack on AU.

NZ really can't demand military protection from US and AU while stealing from the tax-paying Hollywood and Broadway entertainment industry. Why should USA protect the antisemite, who steal from the pockets of american jewish movie and music tycoons? P2P is the digital Holocaust!

Re:Wisdom follows, pay attention! (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153057)

Your 'wisdom' makes me glad the fools are running the planet.

Reminder (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153045)

I'm all for due process, but this [picturestack.com] is whom you are defending

The UK would have caved already. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153071)

Interesting to note that the UK has extradited 2 citizens recently without having to view the evidence against them. Good on New Zealand for standing up to the US.

Missing the point (5, Interesting)

cbope (130292) | more than 2 years ago | (#40153073)

I believe the most significant quote from the statement is this:

"United States is attempting to utilize concepts from the civil copyright context as a basis for the application of criminal copyright liability [which] necessitates a consideration of principles such as the dual use of technology and what they be described as significant non-infringing uses."

In other words, the NZ government realizes this is a misuse of the justice system to allow the US government to prosecute a civil case as a criminal one without giving the defendant access to evidence. The significant problem here is that the rights of the right-holder is being held to a higher standard than the rights of the defendant in this case.

I'm not attempting to say Mr. Dotcom is completely innocent in this case, but the US legal system has destroyed his business, confiscated his assets and likely taken away his future without due process and without a conviction of any crime at this point. Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?

Re:Missing the point (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153231)

Innocent until proven guilty, anyone?

ROFL. You really don't believe the world honors that principle in the post-Gitmo era, do you.

Bread and circuses. Soon it's the olympics, there's nothing to see here, move on.

magazind (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153339)

magazin [magazind.net]

moda [magazind.net]

magazin d [magazind.net]

magazind [magazind.net]

magazin haber [magazind.net]

magazin haberi [magazind.net]

magazin haberleri [magazind.net]

This article is very beautiful, I really get very beyendm text files manually to your health as you magazin [magazind.net] very beautiful and I wish you continued success with all respect ..

oakley sunglass Wholesale Sunglass or Prescripti (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153341)

oakley sunglass Wholesale [discountsalejerseys.com] Layers of heat are sweeping the street. Have you thought about adding some cool factors into your dazzling summer? Designer sunglass must be the first choice of many fashionista. However, are the designer sunglasses really worth the money you pay? Walk around the different kinds of sunglasses counters, varies forms of sunglasses as well as the attractive salesperson make you lost. You have to pay nearly $500 to buy a pair of Prada or Bulgari without any prescription lenses. Whats more, you have to pay a couple hundred bucks to buy a pair of sunglasses of moderate brands like Ray-Ban or REVO. Designer sunglasses are important and big business nowadays. A lot of sounds discount oakley sunglasses [discountsalejerseys.com] say that the sunglass will be thrifty. Nevertheless, the sunglasses counters have never showed any sign. The whole chain stores of Luxottica also has Lens Crafters, Pearle Vision and Sunglass Hut. They are all processionals. Since your eye doctor tells you that you need a new pair of glasses, the sales people helping you choose one, and the people who design and make the glasses all come from the one company. 2. One company produces more than one kind of sunglasses. Have you thought of the "quality" of Bulgari is better wholesale cheap jerseys [discountsalejerseys.com] than Dolce& Gabbana? Do you believe that Ray-Ban is better than Oakley, or Salvatore Ferragamo is better than Prada? Dont be ridiculous. They are all come from the same company. We have never heard of Luxottica, one of the biggest consumer companies from Italy, which produces various kinds of branded sunglasses including Donna Karan, Paul Smith, Versace, Vogue, Persol, Miu Miu, Tory Burch, Tiffany, Versace, Polo Ralph Lauren Chanel and Burberry.

They Forgot (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40153453)

This was just an oversight, the US has forgotten that you are supposed to have evidence for criminal trials. With the Bush and Obama doctrines, NSLs, GItmo, and the national security exception this idea of evidence is a rather quaint and archaic notion. I'm sure they are sending the evidence now to their less enlightened allies.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>