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Microsoft Ignores Usability With All-Caps Menu in Visual Studio

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the this-glass-house-sure-is-pretty dept.

GUI 415

mikejuk writes "The recent release of Visual Studio 2012 contained a UI element that few believed could make it into the final version — ALL-CAPS menus. After lots of user criticism and disbelief, Microsoft has moved swiftly to do something about it — by tweaking the typography. '... we explored designs with and without uppercase styling. In the end we determined it to be a very effective way of providing structure and emphasis to the top menu area in Visual Studio 2012.' This must be a new meaning of the word 'structure,' because putting the menu items into all-caps means that they are all the same height. When each menu items starts with a cap then there is structure because you can see the change in height, marking the start of the next menu item. The idea that putting a menu into all caps adds structure is something that is very difficult to see. If you wanted to put structure into a menu, well how about color? Oh wait, I forgot the design department dumped color in favour of the 'everything-is-grey UI.' Developers are the people who invented CamelCase to make sure that the structure of run together words would stand out better — and now we are asked to believe that making a menu all-caps adds structure. I don't think so."

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All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (5, Funny)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244391)

You see, MS is so hip, so ahead of the curve, that they know already that COBOL is about to come back into style in the developer world. Soon everything will be in all caps, mainframes will be all the rage, and GUI's will be passe. Apple will be behind the times with their over-designed software, and MS will be out in front with their all caps, command-line interface only version of Windows 9--renamed "DOS 9 FOR TERMINALS."

GOOD JOB, MICROSOFT!

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244463)

THEY WERE INTO COMPUTERS WHEN THE GREAT RUNES ROAMED THE DISPLAY. YOU'VE PROBABLY NEVER HEARD OF THEM, THOUGH.








(Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING. Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.)

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244865)

Hoo boy. The one singular time where all-caps in Slashdot posts is appropriate. I get this feeling we'll be seeing a lot of lowercase filler text today...

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (5, Insightful)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244465)

alas mainframes (or at least - thin clients attached to remote processing power somewhere on a network) are back, only they called them "the cloud" this time round to make it sound a bit cooler.

Mainframe is really a marketing term. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245095)

Define "Mainframe".

From what I can see, "mainframe" is a term for very expensive ultra performance hardware.

Car analogy: What's a "luxury" car? An Audi is just a Volkswagen with some minor differences but a more powerful engine and other bells and whistles. A Lexus is just a Toyota with some minor differences. tc ...

Today's "servers" or "workstations" would blow the doors off a mainframe from 20 years ago. Some "mainframes" are just massively parrell processed PCs.

Where's the line? Pretty soon, all of that power will be in one chip. And then what?

The cloud .... client/server where the server is a server farm???

Re:Mainframe is really a marketing term. (4, Insightful)

Chirs (87576) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245303)

Define "Mainframe". From what I can see, "mainframe" is a term for very expensive ultra performance hardware.

Nah, it's more than that. It's about redundancy, high I/O relative to compute power, optimization for throughput rather than latency, and high availability.

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245115)

Well, regardless of the 'control' people want it is the right way to do things, if you do it properly and have the bandwidth behind it to push all the pretty pixels around that is.

Tho its true that back in mainframe days bandwidth wasn't a real issue.. but the last time we try the cloud thing the bandwidth wasn't there and it left a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244621)

this is a test

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244717)

it goes both ways... Diablo 3's text is so small and can't be changed that people are now typing in all caps so that you can read what people are saying from further than 1ft

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (1)

pulski (126566) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245093)

Tell me about it... I play sitting 8-10 feet back on my TV and it's really hard to see. WoW had an option right on the chat window to increase the font, which was essential for me. It's not that I have bad eyes, quite the opposite in fact, but it just gets really tiring trying to read the unnecessarily small print.

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245079)

Yeah man. It reminds me of my Commodore 64 days..... no, even that had lower-case menus. Um. The 70s computers??? RETRO is back baby! Yeah baby, yeah! ;-)

BUT AT LEAST IT HAS A MENU.
Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want. Where's the undo function? Find-and-replace? Full justification? I know they're in that mess of Egyptian hieroglyphics, but I have no clue where.

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (4, Funny)

beachcoder (2281630) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245285)

Freaking Office 2010 with the ribbon crap confuses the heck out of me, because I can never find the function I want. Where's the undo function? Find-and-replace? Full justification? I know they're in that mess of Egyptian hieroglyphics, but I have no clue where.

CTRL+Z, CTRL+H, CTRL+J?

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (1)

dcollins (135727) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245171)

They're just taking the Federal CIO seriously -- "Federal CIO Steven VanRoekel quipped, 'I'm recruiting COBOL developers, any out there?,' sending Federal CTO Todd Park into fits of laughter (video)... So what are VanRoekel and Park looking for? 'Bad a** innovators — the baddest a** of the bad a**es out there,' Park explained (video), 'to design, create, and kick a** for America.'"

BAD A**!!!!!!

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/05/26/1658227/us-ciocto-idea-of-hiring-cobol-coders-laughable [slashdot.org]

Re:All part of their retro-COBOL strategy (1)

Dishevel (1105119) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245259)

I do not know about the all caps thing.
But I never had more fun with Microsoft than when I used DOS 6.22 w/ 4DOS.
The OS was FAST. Only other programs could slow it down. When I wanted graphical I could type a command and get graphical.
When I had an issue I knew that my problem lied in either the config.sys or the autoexec.bat files.
I even had color directories.

well, after all... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244431)

it is from MicroTard, so whadja expect?

Re:well, after all... (3, Interesting)

TWX (665546) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244619)

it is from MicroTard, so whadja expect?

Regardless of one's feelings on Microsoft, that company has consistently and continually tried to make their user interfaces as attractive and easy to use as is possible. They've gone through the effort to develop fonts, to determine how to add pseudo-3d effects, how to space things and how to define icons and sizes. Whatever your beef with Redmond, the UI is the one thing that I will wholeheartedly disagree with you about in almost all circumstances.

If they dropped the ball here, then that's absolutely amazing. Literally amazing. They've built a company and made some of the richest people in the world on how pretty and easy to use their software products are, at the expense of what those interfaces run on for lower level code. If they're losing touch with UI now, that doesn't bode well for them for the long term. They certainly won't disappear, but their non-OS products would lose market share and once people stop being locked in to their non-OS products, they have little reason to stay with the OS itself if other vendors have multiOS versions of competing products.

Re:well, after all... (1)

DrXym (126579) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244785)

I think they're just trying to (lamely) skin their developer studio with a Metro like theme to put Devs in the mindset of developing to that . Problem is that DevStudio is a classic windows app and until such time as it runs on Metro itself it should look and feel like other classic windows apps.

Of course it may be that they put an idiot in charge of the look and feel for their developer tools. Given how they've already been one through one firestorm of criticism for using monochromatic icons that could well be the case too.

Ribbon menu (5, Interesting)

avandesande (143899) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244793)

How come they haven't created a 'ribbon menu' for Visual Studio? Perhaps this is tacit admission that the Ribbon Menu sucks and is inefficient.

Re:Ribbon menu (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244987)

Ssssshhh! Don't say stuff like "'ribbon menu' for Visual Studio", Microsoft might hear you!

Re:Ribbon menu (5, Funny)

avandesande (143899) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245011)

I used to code .NET but am a manager now. Suddenly a VS Ribbon Menu sounds appealing! ;-)

Re:Ribbon menu (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245135)

The only people that find the Ribbon Menu appealing are those not using it.

Re:well, after all... (2, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244849)

Regardless of one's feelings on Microsoft, that company has consistently and continually tried to make their user interfaces as attractive and easy to use as is possible.

Which only proves that trying hard does not mean you will necessarily succeed.

Re:well, after all... (2)

TWX (665546) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245117)

True, but their consistent domineering market share in OS and productivity suite markets does speak to their general success. Even their arguable failures like Microsoft Bob and Windows Vista have given them things that could be integrated in to other products or could be revised as whole products.

Iâ(TM)m horrified. (5, Funny)

Frosty Piss (770223) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244439)

Iâ(TM)m horrified. Absolutely shocked. I tell you, this is the final nail in Microsoft and Visual Studioâ(TM)s coffin. Oh, and âoeMy eyes, it burns! The goggles do nothing!â

Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. (1, Troll)

Shinaku (757671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244501)

Last nail in the coffin of one of the most used development environments in the world?

Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. (1, Flamebait)

FranTaylor (164577) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244613)

Since when does running a batch file count as "using" the development environment?

Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244783)

er, really? What planet are you from?

Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244655)

Oh great, another interface screwed up by the design department.
Someone should fire a few UI designers stat!

At least it's not the worst graphical interface sold at retail.
That honor goes to Lotus Notes [mac.com] .

Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244591)

Iâ(TM)m horrified. Absolutely shocked. I tell you, this is the final nail in Microsoft and Visual Studioâ(TM)s coffin. Oh, and âoeMy eyes, it burns! The goggles do nothing!â

Your post burns my eyes.

Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. (5, Informative)

VGPowerlord (621254) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244943)

IÃ(TM)m horrified. Absolutely shocked. I tell you, this is the final nail in Microsoft and Visual StudioÃ(TM)s coffin. Oh, and ÃoeMy eyes, it burns! The goggles do nothing!Ã

Your post burns my eyes.

I assumed the joke was that he typed that text into Word, then copy-pasted it into his web browser and submitted it.

Re:Iâ(TM)m horrified. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245003)

Iâ(TM)m horrified that you canâ(TM)t seem to find a simple apostraphe button on your keyboard. (here's one you can borrow ' actually, here's a bunch ''''''''''')

MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode now (5, Insightful)

Viol8 (599362) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244475)

Previously barring a lot of eye candy that could be turned off , MS did generally get their UI about right. Now with spillover effect from Win8 they seem to have completely lost the plot and this is simply an example of them reloading the gun once more to take aim at whatever is left of their feet.

Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode (5, Insightful)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244883)

Mod up! This is absurdly true. Office got a new interface that it didn't need that seems no better (just different) from its last interface. Now the same thing is being done for windows. Why not just add a "Tablet/Phone Shell Mode" and be done with it? I'd me much more interested in a faster file system, fast, usable search (still waiting, Microsoft), fewer blue screens, Azure presented in such a way that anyone can host any windows application, legacy or not (Once again, they miss the obvious).

In the last 20 years, Microsoft has been busy solving problems nobody I know seems to have had. I guess they're just going to continue the tradition.

Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode (5, Funny)

c (8461) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245227)

> In the last 20 years, Microsoft has been busy solving
> problems nobody I know seems to have had.

That's not entirely fair. In the last 10 years, Microsoft has been very busy solving problems they themselves created in the previous 10 years.

That being said, Windows 8 is looking like they're ready to start another 10 year cycle of creating new problems.

Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245001)

The are trying to pull off an Apple - they think if they impose a UI of some "stylish artsy type" and enforce it (eg. Metro), that then somehow that will translate into their stock prices going up 100x.

They forgot that Apple's UI has that thing called usability while being "stylish artsy type" too.

Re:MS are fully into change-for-its-own-sake mode (2)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245053)

They make change for change's sake, like car companies. I still hate the icon-based Office 2010.
The pictures are meaningless for user "discovery", AKA the process where people figure out what is where. So it offers nothing over purely text-based menus and just uses up valuable screen real estate. I love having all those fat bars taking up a grand total of almost 50% of the screen space, crowding out the actual data.

"Oh! You can reduce them! Just go into blah blah blah cmd prompt tar -xvf..."

Hands Off (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244493)

My fucking tools and workbench are not you damn designer plaything Microsoft, we're developers not plebeians. we can navigate the damn interface as it is and the things wrong with it can't be fixed by bloody changing case of menus. Go screw around with OneNote if you want to experiment with new user interface workflows and readability. I hate vendor lock-in.

Re:Hands Off (1, Insightful)

TheNinjaroach (878876) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245073)

My fucking tools and workbench are not you damn designer plaything Microsoft

As long as you continue to purchase your tools from Microsoft, that's exactly what they are!

Are you surprised? (5, Informative)

LizardKing (5245) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244509)

This is the company that gave us the ribbon. Otherwise known as the chaos strip, since it seems to randomly rearrange itself to ensure that function you're looking for is never less than half a dozen clicks away. It's a bit like a supermarket, where they deliberately move stuff around in order to make shoppers seek out the things they usually buy in the hope they might chance across - and end up buying - things they haven't seen before.

Re:Are you surprised? (1, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244709)

I would have used the example of, "This is the company that gave us Windows 7." Where they deliberately move stuff around in order to make users play hide and seek or hunt and peck in the hope they might chance across what they are looking for.

Re:Are you surprised? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244721)

They just upgraded us to office 2007 (yeah I work at one of those companies).

All I can say is, nailed it on the head with the chaos strip. Fuck that thing is annoying. I mean the old way of doing things was painful, but we were used to it.

And yeah, it's like they sat down and made a list of the most commonly used features, then made damn sure they would all be on seperate tabs.

I work on fairly complex (actually out of scope for word.. but it's what has been dictated) documents with a lot of sectioning and page magic .. and I feel like I have to re-learn all my old hacks and workarounds.

Re:Are you surprised? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244747)

Oh jesus. Let's all act like it's the end of the world... together now!

It's caps on a topmost menu. Like you'll have a hard time reading " DEBUG " the second time. The visual structure decision does make more sense for something you're only going to active "read" once in your life. Because after that, it's effectively an icon.

Besides, they'll probably make it an option.

Re:Are you surprised? (1)

excelsior_gr (969383) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245193)

I really don't mind clicking, this is not what is wrong with the ribbon.

The problem with the ribbon is that you have to think in order to use it. You have to take a moment and think what you want to do so that you can figure out where you have to click in order to find the appropriate tool. It is actually rather well structured if you consider that it is a hard thing to group abstract menu items and tools in a meaningful way. It will work in favor of someone with little or no previous experience, but it is a pain for a trained used.

In this particular case, thinking is bad! When I write a document, I want my mind to be with what I am writing. In the old-fashioned way you could connect functions with locations and motions that, after a while, would come to you as natural. For example, if you place the picture toolbar on the lower left corner of the window, then every time you want to edit a picture in Word, your hand will automatically move the mouse in that direction. You don't have to explicitly think about it. It is kinda like driving a car or playing a computer game. You don't actively think while stirring, it just comes in a natural way.

With the ribbon, I very often get annoyed that I have to take my mind away from what I'm doing in order to find the stupid menu buttons. And I find working with it much slower and counter-productive. Yes the old menu took up space and looked ugly, but it worked for me.

All of the "new UIs" (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244513)

It seems that all of the newest UIs - whether they are from Microsoft, Google, Apple, etc. - all suck. They are flat, colorless, abominations where you can't even tell what the user interface elements do or if they are even supposed to be user interface elements. I spent a good amount of time yesterday and today in Visual Studio 2010 and it has a very nice UI. I know they need to "newify" everything in order to say "new and improved" - but damn. All upper case, all grey, all lame.

Re:All of the "new UIs" (3, Interesting)

Anrego (830717) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244963)

Totally agree.

I think it's being driven by the cell phone / tablet craze. Everyones trying to make their desktop look like their cellphone. I too think it's a major step backwards.. and I think a lot of the UI design guys are out of touch with what people actually want.

Relearning... (5, Interesting)

Atzanteol (99067) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244533)

As I understand it road signs (or many of them) in the UK used to be in caps but studies showed that mixed-case was much easier to read (which mattered more as cars got faster) since we're looking for familiar patterns.

Looks like Microsoft will need to re-learn this lesson...

Re:Relearning... (2)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244635)

since we're looking for familiar patterns.

ALL CAPS WILL BECOME FAMILIAR. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED!

(Side note: I typed half of that sentence before remembering that there was a caps-lock button... I think it is the first time I've used it.)

Re:Relearning... (0, Troll)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244887)

I DO MILITARY DRAFTING SO CAPS LOCK IS ON ALL THE TIME.

WELCOME TO MY WORLD BITCHES

Oh, due to the Slashdot filter assuming ALL CAPS is offensive, I have to fill the next three lines with cursing.
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

About your side note... (2)

alexhs (877055) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244915)

"Obligatory" bash quote [bash.org]

Re:Relearning... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245237)

RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. WE WILL ADD YOUR BIOLOGICAL AND TECHNOLOGICAL DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. WE ARE THE BORG EHM WE ARE MICROSOFT.

yes yes it's yelling.
yes yes it's yelling
yes yes it's ywlling
yes yes it's yelling.
yes yes it's yelling.
yes yes it's yelling.
yes yes it's yelling.
yes yes it's yelling.
yes yes it's yelling.

Re:Relearning... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244781)

one of the two people who made the original road signs for the uk highways was on topgear, and she did indeed explain that mixed case was chosen because reading it was faster, since reading fast is more about recognizing the "shape" of a word than reading the individual letters

Re:Relearning... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244817)

It's not a question, simply the existence of lower case letters proves it. Why would they ever be invented?

Re:Relearning... (2)

khr (708262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244961)

which mattered more as cars got faster

Maybe Microsoft is trying to slow down the speed of development.

Blog author knows what they are talking about (5, Insightful)

chaidawg (170956) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244545)

Only someone who has a website with such bad usability can truly see horrible usability in others' work.

Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244795)

haha seriiiously

Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244845)

I wish I had modpoints...

Re:Blog author knows what they are talking about (5, Informative)

hjf (703092) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245005)

You beat me to it. The guy is whining about "usability" and yet:

his website is a horrible mix of:

  • Late 2000's Rounded edges
  • Late 1990's Awful Blue and thick lines
  • Early 2000's OS X style rounded button menu
  • Text in the buttons not vertically centered
  • Corners around the silly rounded "logo" aren't transparent
  • I had to move the jQuery picture window to see the stuff, and scroll horizontally to close it clicking on a tiny X
  • "Picture window -> click X to close". Really, usability guy?

I could go on but I think I've pointed enough mistakes. I can't believe someone with a website like that has the nerve to criticize Microsoft (or anyone) for using uppercase menus.

Structure (3, Interesting)

Talderas (1212466) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244553)

When each menu items starts with a cap then there is structure because you can see the change in height, marking the start of the next menu item.

Call me blind. But this rant is blown out of proportion. He's complaining about structure, yet there is a very clearly delimited blank space between menu items a blank space which is much large than present in the mixed case version. In fact, I find it a lot easier to read the menu item word in the all capital version compared to the mixed case most based on the large spacing alone.

Re:Structure (0)

perryizgr8 (1370173) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244671)

yeah, i hate the double standards people have when its microsoft software. take the color issue for example. whole of macos is gray, but its a beauty imagined by the greatest artists that ever walked on this humble planet. the new visual studio is gray, microsoft is stupid, even though its probably the best ide that exists.

Re:Structure (1)

iMadeGhostzilla (1851560) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245141)

Agreed. If you take a look at your screen right now, you will find few, if any, all-caps words. So those that are attract a bit more attention, and not too much more. (You don't want them screaming in different colors.) Just enough to shave off a few milliseconds in navigation every time you need a menu command.

CamelCase (4, Informative)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244589)

"Developers are the people who invented CamelCase"

I think chemists has developers beat by a century or two. Now please pass the NaCl.

Re:CamelCase (2)

Dynedain (141758) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244775)

No kidding. CamelCase is just plain ordinary Title Case with the spaces removed because programming languages expect names to be OneWord.

I LIKE IT (0)

RGladiator (454257) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244607)

I actually like the all caps menu structure. Going by the screenshots in the linked article I think I'd find the new version more useful. It makes the items stand out without taking up more of the screen.

Backronyms. (2)

khr (708262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244609)

Maybe we can come up with backronyms for each of them, that way, like the SQL menu, they can all be acronyms that require capitalization.

Re:Backronyms. (4, Funny)

dcollins (135727) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245225)

Even better: Circular backronyms!

FILE -- FILE Input Listing Element
EDIT -- EDIT Document Interface Tool
VIEW -- VIEW Interface Element Window

etc.

And suddenly, I have a strange... (1)

logical_failure (2405644) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244617)

... desire to migrate my team to Eclipse.

The answer is simple (2)

JAlexoi (1085785) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244637)

The answer is simple, the person that was dictating the names of the menus was a very loud one. So his assistant wrote exactly what he was DICTATING!!!

Justification? (2)

wbav (223901) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244647)

At what point did Microsoft need a justification for anything they do? They just do what they want and expect others to live with it. Look at Windows ME. Look at Vista. It is only when users won't pay they back down.

The article, which is based on a blog post, mentions that it is not obvious how to change the case. If you read the blog post it says they haven't settled on how Microsoft will expose a change of case feature. My guess is you'll have to customize the menu, just like what's been done in Visual Studio for years.

New in IE10 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244657)

What's next? Bringing black the blink tag?
Clippy 2.0?

Re:New in IE10 (1)

dingen (958134) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244951)

The blink tag never left, just like the marquee tag. Seriously, try them out. They work in almost all browsers.

VS is horrible (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244675)

We all know VS is and always has been the worst IDE in the world. I really don't know how anybody can develop serious software with this tool. If you come from Eclipse or even IBM VA for Java, it's like a 10 year step back into stone age.

Project Direction (4, Insightful)

brningpyre (2114648) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244683)

This is such a laughably bad decision, I can't see it making its way into the final product. I even tried to type this post in all-caps, but /. reminded me that it was wrong. When it comes to something people have known and taken for granted for years, it seems very odd that Microsoft would go backwards and decide on this. Exactly where is the leadership for this project?

Visual Studio and Usable? (-1, Troll)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244729)

Maybe I'm missing something here but I've never considered Visual Studio to be any kind of usable or even semi decent IDE. Whats wrong with a strong text editor ( Vim, Emacs ) and a good compiler like gcc? All the same function, a fraction of the foot print and actually higher overall productivity. This combo works for serious programmers, but if you want someone to hold your hand and treat you like a 5 year old then sure Visual Studio works just fine, just not very well.

Big Fing deal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244755)

Its a single control, if you dont like it you then have two options.

1) Dont use it
2) Roll your own. (Pretty simple)

Or is this just a reason for MS haters to piss and moan?

"Microsoft Ignores Usability" (1, Flamebait)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244765)

Historically speaking, you really could have stopped right there.

Mountain out of a molehill (0)

dittbub (2425592) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244767)

Does it really matter? Why all upset over a menu? Caps or no caps its still quite easily workable as a fucking menu.

Re:Mountain out of a molehill (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244825)

First world problems.

Glasshouses (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244831)

Usually a site either has a horizontal scrollbar (if the web designer thought everybody had a screen as large as his), or horse blinkers (if the web designer thought everybody had a screen as small as his, or was just envious of those people who enjoy a larger screen).

This guy here somehow has managed the feat to have both... and then has the gall to pontificate about usability!

Congratulations!

Don't use it if you don't like it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244833)

Well, if you guys dislike it that much, then stop using it. Oh.. wait..

Anyway, it's the best development environment EVER -unless you're a sissy web app programmer, I wouldn't know about developing that- and the awful all-caps menu doesn't make any difference to me. It's just ugly, that's all.

It's like a retard bomb exploded in Redmond (1)

BenJeremy (181303) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244843)

Somebody nuke it from orbit before the madness spreads to the rest of the country.

I'm no Apple fan, but somebody on another forum made a great point... Apple doesn't force iOS-like interfaces on desktop users... so WTF is Microsoft so hell bent to do this? It's like they have a perpetual hard on for anything Metro now.

Is there something I'm missing here? I do not want Metro on my desktop. Windows 7 does everything pretty well, and Windows 8 adds NOTHING that I would care to add to Windows 7.

Windows 8 is not an enhancement, it's a terrible compromise that isn't needed in the first place.

Now we developers are being forced to wallow into the mind-numbing Metro-style crap, just to use the latest tools, even if we stick with Win7. Really?

A registry hack for this already exists. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244851)

it's been circulating on teh internets _atleast_ since late May.Once VS start reporting back that more and more people are reverting back to regular style menus they'll make it an option inside VS itself, albeit hidden behind some rarely used obscure menu. Nothing to see here, carry on.

Re:A registry hack for this already exists. (1)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244985)

it's been circulating on teh internets _atleast_ since late May.Once VS start reporting back that more and more people are reverting back to regular style menus they'll make it an option inside VS itself, albeit hidden behind some rarely used obscure menu. Nothing to see here, carry on.

You mean like how they removed the registry entry to turn off Metro and have a normal desktop?

--
BMO

The last refuge of the unimaginative (0)

jlv (5619) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244855)

We’ve chosen to use uppercase styling in the top menu for two main reasons: 1) to keep Visual Studio consistent with the direction of other Microsoft user experiences, and 2) to provide added structure to the top menu bar area.

"Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative." - Oscar Wilde

Re:The last refuge of the unimaginative (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245087)

You are absolutely right! I WilL NoW sToP BeInG SoO ConSisTaNt!

Did they run out of things to fix? (2)

excelsior_gr (969383) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244873)

Seriously?

What happened to the "if it's not broken, don't fix it" motto? Did anyone complain that the menu list, that everyone knows where it is and what is there to expect, did not stand out enough? Or that it lacked any other visual property? At least with the ribbon they tried re-thinking the topic "menu" and took a shot at providing something different (whether you like it or not is another topic). What exactly were they trying to achieve with this modification? What a horrible waste of resources...

For the record, I find it a bit childish and old-fashioned in caps, but, actually, I couldn't care less.

Screen Readers (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40244899)

This is going to break compatibility for most modern screen readers. "EFF EYE ELL EE" is going to old pretty quickly.

ESL (2, Interesting)

xdor (1218206) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244907)

Developing software for a global bank many moons ago, the software recipients preferred/required capitalized menu items and input fields. As English was not their first language, they explained that CAPS were easier for them to read.

So either Microsoft's focus group is global or their developers are

Why Terminals used to use all-caps (0)

Mozai (3547) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244939)

There's an old story that hackers tell each other 'round the fire. Long time ago, when line-printers were being built, the engineers didn't have enough space for the hammerheads for a full typewriter set, and they had to decide to use upper- or lower-case letters. The engineers agreed that lowercase serif was best, because it was more readable than upper-case and had enough difference between letters to recognize mistakes faster. A manager stopped them, and said "no, we must use upper-case letters, because it would be disrespectful to output the name of our Lord Almighty in lower-case letters."

And interfaces since then have suffered because of one manager's insistence that religious observances are more important than useful function.

Blog Author Ignores Usability With Page Layout (1)

meheler (193628) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244967)

Author of notorious blog "I Programmer" ignores usability and readability by cramming entire articles into a fixed-width page and using only 1/4 of that fixed-width for content.

The all-caps menu is irksome and MS has gotten plenty of vitriolic feedback about it. Why does /. feed that horrible blog's hits with this pointless article?

addin can fix it? (1)

caywen (942955) | more than 2 years ago | (#40244975)

I wonder if a simple adding can fix this. Just walk the menus and change the labels?

Sam Says It's Sleight Of Pussie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245027)

Distract you with pussie and hid problem at hand of sleight.\

Change is bad. Need structure (1)

Cyko_01 (1092499) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245049)

Sounds like someone forgot to take there OCD meds.

Microsoft researcher even proved it was bad! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245061)

Microsoft researcher even proved it was bad!
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/ctfonts/WordRecognition.aspx
Left hand, meet right hand!

This reflects .... (4, Funny)

PPH (736903) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245065)

... Microsoft's attitude towards its users. Yelling at them.

Next up: They are going to replace Clippy with a flying chair.

Micrognome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40245125)

What are they thinking? Have they hired the designers from Gnome 3?

Menus OK, but icons? (2)

michaelmalak (91262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245139)

The uppercase is deck chairs. The uppercase does make it look a little cleaner; yes, and the tradeoff is a little harder to read. Not a big deal either way. But if you've read any of the Windows Metro philosophy papers, the "chrome" was supposed to go away and be replaced with blank panels, clean typography, images, and animation -- in short, give desktop apps the same clean appearance as iPhone apps. Then why is there still a strip of little-used icons? Does anyone really click the floppy icon to save? No, of course, not. You either click CTRL-S, or, since it's Visual Studio (and I don't know why Borland and Eclipse don't do this), you just click "Build" and it saves automatically. And all the other icons, I still don't know what they do after 20 years of using Visual Studio.

After reading the Metro philosophy papers, I was initially excited. I was eager to see how Microsoft was going to adapt its products to the new philosophy. Now I see that has gone the way of Longhorn WinFS. And besides, I've since realized that it's better to target HTML5 (with Canvas -- pixels finally come to HTML) than Metro anyway.

SO WHAT?? (1)

backslashdot (95548) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245273)

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH ALL CAPS TEXT!!!!!!! IT DOESN'T MAKE IT SHOUTING!!!! NEITHER DO EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!! THEY ARE JUST EXTRA PIXELS ON THE SCREEN AND DON"T GENERATE ANY NOISE!!!!@!$!# YOU IDIOTS!!@!%!*!(!)p0!-!!!

loppity loppity lpooity loppity loppity loo loppity loo tru-da loo bopppity boo boppity Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Aenean augue est, venenatis nec porta a, pellentesque commodo quam. Vestibulum elementum velit commodo mauris accumsan tempus. Ut sagittis feugiat dui ac vestibulum. Morbi ut mi eu nunc fermentum lobortis. Pellentesque vitae est arcu, id vestibulum lorem. Ut nibh felis, semper vel lobortis sed, fermentum in dui. Etiam nec lacus viverra nisl varius fringilla a et tellus. Suspendisse vitae purus eget leo vehicula euismod eget quis metus. Proin dapibus velit non turpis aliquet adipiscing. Aenean in pharetra dolor. Morbi hendrerit dolor nec tortor laoreet sagittis. Proin vel tempus enim.

Grow up, Microsoft (1)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#40245279)

In the 90s, when mass computing was new, software from Microsoft was designed by young, arrogant 20-somethings with no thought for usability or the needs of customers, usually business customers. It's 2012 now, not 1992. The world changed - Microsoft hasn't. Users got older and less tolerant of giggly nonsense and unstable systems. They don't want to learn new stuff. They want to get their tasks done. Period. Businesses need results, not the latest and coolest anything. Cobol still exists for a reason.

Apple got this, and succeeded, and even stayed culturally cool. Their software is about the task, not the software itself. Microsoft still hasn't got it. The culture of arrogant, don't-give-a-shit-about-you-if-you-can't-figure-it-out, cool, 20-something males is still very much in evidence in each release.

Grow up Microsoft. Nobody cares about you or your software. The moment there's a better, equally affordable alternative (which Linux could be if marketed correctly), there we all go. Make it easy, be polite and never, never patronize and you might have a chance at survival, but I'm not betting on it.

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