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Best Buy Chairman and Founder Resigns Ahead of Schedule

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the to-spend-time-with-family-no-doubt dept.

Businesses 322

lightbox32 writes with the news as carried by MSNBC that "Best Buy's chairman and founder Richard Schulze has announced his resignation from the board of directors Thursday a year ahead of the planned transition at the helm of the struggling retailer. The resignation of Dunn and Schulze come after Best Buy reported a quarterly loss of $1.7 billion after same-store sales dropped 5 percent." This sounds like a bad omen for people who get their electronic fix there. For all its imperfections and limited range, when I'm looking for computer stuff new, at retail, and in person — meaning it's not at the Goodwill and I need it right now — I'm usually glad to be near a Fry's location. What brick-and-mortar stores make sense where you live?

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He escaped (5, Funny)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 2 years ago | (#40248431)

Good move.

Re:He escaped (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40248653)

I haven't bought a Best Buy product in a long time. As I recall it was an eMachine desktop discounted to $FREE if I signed a 2 year MSN Dialup contract. So that gives you an idea of how long ago that was. (It's a shame ISPs no longer offer contract deals on PCs... like cellproviders do with phones.)

I've found the best bargains are through Staples: I paid $250 for a desktop and $300 for a laptop. Bestbuy charged about one hundred more... no wonder they are losing customers. Maybe in another year they'll have a Circuitshitty-type selloff, and I can acquire more PS3/Xbox/Wii games for $5.

Re:He escaped (2)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#40248747)

That's weird, here at the Tualatin store, it's usually cheaper for more then staples.

Of course, we have a Frys is Wilsonville, but the problem with that is that it's staffed by Fry's employees.

I used to own Frysucks.com, so maybe I'm biased.
I'l go there, but I won't talk to the employees., cause they're stupid.

Bestbuy is making the mistake of being a little of everything, but that's not working so well.
They need to eat into Frys business.

Re:He escaped (1)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#40249271)

I used to own Frysucks.com, so maybe I'm biased.
I'l go there, but I won't talk to the employees., cause they're stupid.

The only place I have ran into truly knowledgeable employees is at Altex, but they don't exactly target the consumer.

Otherwise I tend to avoid all salespeople and don't trust a word they say.

That sucks though (0)

crazyjj (2598719) | about 2 years ago | (#40248677)

Best Buy is the last place left in my area where I can possibly find any computer parts or techie stuff locally. Their selection is for shit and their prices are often ridiculous (god help you if you're looking for cables). But when I absolutely need something TODAY, they're the only place to turn. If they go out of business, all I've got is Staples (and their blu-ray selection sucks).

Re:That sucks though (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#40248771)

If they go out of business, start a local cable resell company out of your garage. Buy a bunch of 99cent cables, resell for 5 bucks.

Re:That sucks though (1)

NeverVotedBush (1041088) | about 2 years ago | (#40249017)

BestBuy has moved away from the tech end and gone more to straight consumer. It used to be you could go in and buy hard drives, ethernet cards, and cables at good prices. Now, if they even have the parts, you are lucky, and the cables are way, way overpriced. They jumped on the Monster bandwagon and never left.

On the other hand, I bought my microwave, refrigerator, vacuum, a 32" Sony LCD, PS3, and carpet shampooer all there. Occasional DVDs. But I only go there when I really need something instead of perusing their computer parts and pieces so they lose the convenience buys from me.

It always seems in the store near me that the staff just stands around and for the most part are really pretty ignorant about what they sell. They either speak without knowing or are simply lying about product features and are less than helpful - they are an outright annoyance. Thankfully they will go away if you tell them you are just looking.

But all in all I have spent a fair amount of money at my local BestBuy. The prices on stuff can be OK if you buy on sale, and having a smart phone handy while shopping so you can compare prices really is handy. I can wait a couple of days if the price difference is good enough. All in all I wonder why they are having so many problems. I think they could do themselves a huge favor if they fired all the minimum wage idiots who probably lose business for them and paid knowledgeable people a good wage instead. I don't need their help but a lot of people are lost in today's world. BestBuy being a knowledge resource could help them out.

What's bad for Best Buy is good for local stores? (5, Interesting)

Gordo_1 (256312) | about 2 years ago | (#40248447)

I dunno, could we see a renaissance in local computer shops as a result?

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248473)

I can hardly wait to be gouged by local owners rather than corporate owners

OR I'll just buy stuff online (which, from my understanding, is what killed BestBuy in the first place)

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (3, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40248529)

Probably not because they have to compete with the Internet too. If the highly-efficient Circuit City or Best Buy could not do it, it's doubtful some mom/pop store could do it.

Small stores might fill the same roll as 7/11 does (quick gratification for purchases needed immediately), but will also have the same higher prices on goods that 7/11 has.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248549)

Exactly. I ran up the street to the local convenience store to get some milk once, big mistake. One day until the sell by date and 150% the price at the grocery.

The Internet doesn't have a tactile showroom (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#40248623)

Probably not because they have to compete with the Internet too.

The Internet doesn't have a showroom that lets me touch the keyboard of a laptop or smartphone before I buy it.

Re:The Internet doesn't have a tactile showroom (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40248729)

Same reason I don't import brides.

(Do you really need to "touch" your new PC or laptop? It's just a generic device nowadays. Like my new $30 microwave I bought sight unseen.)

Re:The Internet doesn't have a tactile showroom (5, Insightful)

Yosho-sama (800703) | about 2 years ago | (#40248869)

Yes. The quality of the trackpad and keyboard matters. You're going to be using this device probably daily for years. It's good to know how it feels ergonomically, plus it's good to get an idea of the weight and size.

Re:The Internet doesn't have a tactile showroom (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248913)

Do you really need to "touch" your new PC or laptop [keyboard]?

Sometimes, yes.

It's just a generic device nowadays

Not really. Keyboards can vary from model to model and brand to brand. And key layout, how shallow or deep the keys are in a resting state and in a depressed state, the actual hunk of plastic that makes up the keyboard body, all dictate whether a particular keyboard is actually usable to me. Now for me personally I can mostly determine just from a picture if a keyboard will work for me. But yes, for some people, I can easily see it being beneficial to actually look such simple devices over in person. Nevermind more complex devices like monitors and printers, or those mice designed to conform to ones hand. I could not tell if a particular mouse would work for me just by looking at a picture, and thanks to Best Buy, I found out that it would not.

Re:The Internet doesn't have a tactile showroom (1)

v1 (525388) | about 2 years ago | (#40248735)

Even that isn't saving them. A lot of consumers now go to Best Buy etc brick'n'mortar to "window shop", find what they want, write it down, and go home and amazon it etc. The brick'n'mortar stores are tired of being the window shopping of the online clearance stores.

We've got a Best Buy in town, they moved in when Circuit City left. I don't know if I will miss them much. I've bought stuff from them before, and the get-it-the-same-day is a nice convenience, but it always comes at a cost. But sometimes it's worth it. I don't like to wait 4-5 days for a replacement hard drive when a slice in my raid takes a dump and it goes on grace. At times like that, another $10-20 is a lot easier to swallow.

Probably the best feature that a local store can offer is ease and speed of returns. One HDD I bought from Best Buy started doing a very convincing imitation of a circular saw 2 weeks after I bought it. I took it in, they had to test it, (which was quite entertaining, rrrRRRRRR!!!! whoa, guess that IS bad!) and got an immediate replacement. If I had bought that online it would have been a much bigger headache and taken probably a week.

Wish we had even one more electronics store in town. I'd like to see a Frys. Right now really the best alternative I have after Best Buy here is WalMart!

Re:The Internet doesn't have a tactile showroom (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | about 2 years ago | (#40249067)

Even that isn't saving them. A lot of consumers now go to Best Buy etc brick'n'mortar to "window shop", find what they want, write it down, and go home and amazon it etc. The brick'n'mortar stores are tired of being the window shopping of the online clearance stores.

Yep...even easier than writing stuff down, just use one of the many barcode scanners, and bang..you record what you want, model# and all...and a listing of best prices to be found locally or online.

Another big reason you don't actually buy at BB, especially if a big ticket item....to avoid the sales tax!!

I know...everyone is supposed to pay the use tax on it [rolls eyes]......but let's be realistic about this, that just doesn't happen.

Snark (0)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 2 years ago | (#40248785)

The Internet doesn't have a showroom that lets me touch the keyboard of a laptop or smartphone before I buy it.

Smartphones don't have keyboards anymore, perhaps that is Best Buy's problem. You just need to run your finger along a plane of glass before a purchase now.

As for laptops, you now have two general buyers:

1) People buying a Macbook so they already know what it feels like.

2) People hell-bent on buying the cheapest damn laptop and so who cares what it feels like? It feels cheap. That is the point.

If Best Buy were at least the store that had cables I needed on occasion I might go there sometime, but they couldn't even do that right.

Personally I think they should transform the whole store into selling Kinect only games along with paid hourly rentals of same (that you play at the store) and turn the rest of the place into the widest selection of iPad covers ANYWHERE!

Re:The Internet doesn't have a tactile showroom (1)

jd2112 (1535857) | about 2 years ago | (#40248893)

Probably not because they have to compete with the Internet too.

The Internet doesn't have a showroom that lets me touch the keyboard of a laptop or smartphone before I buy it.

I was on best buy over the weekend and the phones they had on display were plastic models. (this however may varry by store.) On the other hand I wouldn't think of buying a TV without seeing it in person.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248625)

I'm one of those people who eschews chains in almost all of my shopping, but still I've not been tempted in many years to "go local" when it comes to tech because it's the exact same thing as online but more expensive.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (5, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40248649)

Best Buy wasn't always so bad.

Circuit City was poorly managed and loaded with debt. It is not the internet per say, but rather management losing their focus. BB had its doom when it acquired GeekSquad. Since it was a ripoff and such a high margin they strong armed their managers into making sure it was bundled with every computer since customers would have to use it anyway etc.

Then the warranties could only be serviced at geeksquad. Then components were geeksquad insured. Then the cashiers were required to meet quotas, now BB wont even sell gaming keyboard and mice because they are not wireless which means no geek squad protection. Even their car audio and home entertainment installers are called geeksquad and are pushed. These are not real computer geeks

Now they sell things people do not want because they can bundle geeksquad, customers get hassled as employees need to piss people off just to keep their jobs, their greed makes them sell expensive things so you are more likely to buy a geeksquad protection. Their credit cards are a terrible deal too and they are hitting on those.

They lost what they are known for and that is great products at a reasonable price. Metrics can ruin many companies and CEOs who chose other lucrative markets devalue their assets. They are a retailer and not a computer shop.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248895)

"If the highly-efficient Circuit City or Best Buy could not do it, it's doubtful some mom/pop store could do it."

In most cases a smaller business will run more efficiently, have less overhead, and complications. The big business gains the advantage in costs by buying much larger quantities than the smaller stores.

BTW: I have never seen anything efficient in CC or BB.. Is CC even around anymore? They closed up shop in NE/NW Ohio.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (0)

crazyjj (2598719) | about 2 years ago | (#40248707)

could we see a renaissance in local computer shops as a result?

Best Buy's selection and markup were already bad enough. I can only imagine the piss-poor selection and crazy markup in a low-volume little storefront.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (1)

MrEricSir (398214) | about 2 years ago | (#40248781)

Gonna have to call bullshit on this one. Have you ever noticed the absurd markups at Best Buy? Even the one location mom n' pop shops can beat their prices.

When I bought my GTX 680 I looked at Best Buy. Turns out Best Buy doesn't sell high-end graphics cards (or any high-end components, really.) Then I checked NewEgg and Amazon -- both were sold out. Then I went down to my local shop, and they not only had it in stock, but their price was the same as NewEgg.

tl;dr: Best Buy was always a joke for computer components, and their selection and prices are both easily beatable.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#40248927)

It is my understanding that, in broad strokes, retail locations are forced to accept smaller margins on pricier electronics and make it up on accessories and services.

If somebody is dropping $500 on a graphics card, or $1000+ on a TV, or what have you, they are likely to comparison shop. Even a few percent markup over the next-cheapest guy will look sufficiently large, in absolute terms, to drive the customer away. The retail guys have to suck it up and then try to sock you for a few hundred percent on that displayport->DVI adapter or gold-plated Belkin USB cable on the way out...

(Also, while the quality can be variable, the better class of local PC shop is is a hell of a lot better as a resource for non-techies than the geek squad, and sometimes easier to find than a convenient nerd relative...)

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (1)

Virtucon (127420) | about 2 years ago | (#40248823)

That's a good point however with more and more states pushing for Internet Sales taxes, (California, Texas etc.) the Internet price advantage will not be as aggressive. In Texas, they're starting to collect sales taxes from Amazon as part of a deal, meaning with shipping and taxes etc. would a local store be able to compete more in terms of price plus the benefits of being able have a tactile experience as well? I don't know, but for a long time the "Internet Sales Tax" holiday has done quite a bit more in terms of electronic store consolidation than anything. In my area we still have Fry's but I hate their service and return policy (as mentioned as well by other posts) and Micro Center is just another Fry's, so what's left?

Also, Best Buy isn't disappearing but yes they also have to change their business model a bit. The whole return policy has been troubling for years, i.e., labeling people who return items as bad customers etc. That's one of the reasons I won't shop there, the ridiculous policies that somehow limit my choices and minimize me as a customer. With Amazon for example, if I want to return it, I take it to a UPS place, with a pre-paid label and it's done. No hassles no putting me on "Bad Customer" lists etc.

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (1)

k6mfw (1182893) | about 2 years ago | (#40248861)

Local stores are nice, I miss Action Computers on Lawrence Blvd in Sunnyvale, CA (next to HRO). Mainly used PCs but they used to have bins of various cables, connectors, accessories, boards, cases, housings, etc, etc, etc. and for very competitive prices. And they used to have old computers, got a Pentium2 PC for $30, loaded up Win98 OS and works great for programming old stuff (i.e. two-way radios). But lately (appears from new owners) have streamlined the store by getting rid of a lot of crap so the place is much cleaner. Problem is along with the junk they no longer stock, they also got rid of lot of misc stuff. I used to stop by to "stock up on supplies." It seemed every month or so I'm short of a VGA, s-video, serial, or a "special connector" of sorts. Now, I don't really bother and go to Frys or Microcenter to get stuff (new, meaning money that will go to China instead of staying here).

Re:What's bad for Best Buy is good for local store (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#40249013)

action moved. they are no longer next to the subway hoagie shop (yes, that's right, I said hoagie. deal with it!) but are next to st. johns burgers; the place that takes 3 hours to get past the lunch line.

Micro Center (5, Informative)

a_nonamiss (743253) | about 2 years ago | (#40248451)

If you're lucky enough to live near one. They provide the "I need this thing right now" fix, while matching NewEgg's prices. Their sales people aren't perfect, but they're generally a tick or two above the TV salesman at Best Buy. You can't buy a washer/dryer combo there, but I count myself as fortunate to live near one. They're always busy, so I truly hope they're making money.

Re:Micro Center (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248489)

Yeah, I bought a processor from them that was hard to find anywhere else, even online. I was very happy, and the price was just right too.

I had to drive 30min to get to the store, but it was worth it.

Re:Micro Center (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248571)

+1 for MicroCenter... we routinely send customers down there when it turns out someone forgot a component for their datacenter migration/installation.

Re:Micro Center (1)

P-niiice (1703362) | about 2 years ago | (#40248611)

I love my local Microcenter, but they suck at cable prices. I do monoprice.com for those, but Microcenter is great for everything else.

Re:Micro Center (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248805)

And, if you live in ChicagoLand and you don't want to go to Microcenter, making a trek to CDW in Vernon Hills can be cool, too. Order your stuff on the CDW website then drive out to Vernon Hills to pick up your order. CDW has a very limited amount of stuff in their "showroom" to see/touch.

Re:Micro Center (1)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about 2 years ago | (#40248637)

I'll second that. They have a good inventory and their sale prices are competitive with NewEgg (non-sale items tend to be priced at full retail). There are some small things that could be improved, like putting all of the compressed air in one place instead of spreading it around three or four different spots in the store, but it's a good place to get stuff that you need quickly.

I went in with my brother when he was buying a computer. The salesperson recognized me (I had purchased a computer there a few weeks earlier), asked what I had paid for the computer I bought, and then refunded the difference because the price had been lowered. I wasn't expecting that at all.

Re:Micro Center (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248663)

-1 for microcenter, I drive by one everyday to/from work. I don't know what you're buying but for odd little things (stuff I need now) like little adapters or cables they are always more expensive than newegg/amazon.

And the sales people drive me nuts. Yeah at best buy you'll get some highschool kid from car stereos in the tv section but at least he doesn't have a vested interest in selling you the most expensive piece of shit there. The microcenter sales staff spends half their free time memorizing buzz words from the packaging and the other half sticking those little fucking commission tags on everything within their reach.

Re:Micro Center (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248697)

I sort of like them to. Pushy salespeople and guarantees that make me cringe.

Open box specials are rip-offs.

But I'm with you. Although that bullshit of wanting your phone number on checkout is annoying. As well as the email address - I hate lying - Obama is getting a shit load of Microcenter "specials".

I wish all marketing people would be sent to concentration camps, btw. They are the people who will destroy freedom in the World.

Re:Micro Center (1)

amaupin (721551) | about 2 years ago | (#40249055)

Although that bullshit of wanting your phone number on checkout is annoying. As well as the email address - I hate lying - Obama is getting a shit load of Microcenter "specials".

I always tell them my email address is a secret. Works every time. They ask for personal information but don't require any.

"What store make sense?" (3, Funny)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 2 years ago | (#40248453)

Answer: any that aren't Best Buy.

Re:"What store make sense?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248739)

Would that include RadioShack?
I always love $6 single switches that melt when you try to solder them.

Geeksquad protection + credit cards (5, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40248465)

Maybe if they did not obsess over metrics written by some MBA by hounded customers on geeksquad protection plans and credit card sales there would not be any drop. I went to a job fair yesterday to get some extra part time work under my belt and all the retailers are doing this. At JCPenny you can not be a cashier unless you have experience selling credit cards at 25% to poor people and that is the only metric that follows.

With 1 trillion in debt people are no longer consuming because of shady deals like this are strangling their customer base for those who are dumb enough to use them. Geeksquad is a ripoff and it is so annoying when all you want is a job.

The upper management are really clueless and they make sure all mice and keyboards are wireless only because they can then bundle geeksquad protection plans. IT is just an insane customer experience when you want a wired gaming mouse and they can not even carry it.

Re:Geeksquad protection + credit cards (1)

Xenx (2211586) | about 2 years ago | (#40248657)

I've purchased multiple wired gaming mice from Best Buy. The selection was only about as limited as you would expect from a B&M store. A few razer mice, a RAT 7, and then the "normal" mice. The reality is, they stock what sells.

Re:Geeksquad protection + credit cards (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40248725)

Mine stopped carrying them this year. They did have a razer keyboard which had the worst ratings and they stopped carrying the cheaper Logitech ones which are better all because you are statistically less likely to buy a protection plan with it. Not because of demand as low cost items always have the highest demand. BB thinks it is the only retailer so they can warp the supply and demand curves to their liking and management can get this bonus etc.

They are greedy idiots. The customer is part of the equation too which is why they are looking at alternatives. BB assumes its online stores so they now bundle malware BB media store on all laptops and pcs it sells.

Re:Geeksquad protection + credit cards (2, Insightful)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#40248701)

I received a $25 gift card for Best Buy, I needed a wireless mouse keyboard combo.

The cheapest one was @ $45 and was an absolute piece of shit. I would have spent the same and got better quality if I had tossed that gift card and just bought a cheap keyboard+mouse from Fry's.

Re:Geeksquad protection + credit cards (4, Informative)

rgbscan (321794) | about 2 years ago | (#40249143)

I did a holiday stint at clothing retailer last year for the discount and to make some holiday cash. Cashier's were required to finagle 11 new emails - that's new, never before collected emails, and 2 approved credit cards per shift. Those that made the goal got to stay on permanently. Those that did not were not offered a permanent position. The store was going to try again with the next batch of temp workers around easter, than again during back to school.

Customer survey scores only mattered if you routinely got negative scores. Bagging well didn't matter. Speed at the register didn't matter, in fact you were encouraged to slow down the line and were trained with all kinds of "countering" sales lines to say to people that declined the credit offer. Going slower gave you more time to work them over. You were supposed to keep trying until the customer firmly said no (basically when they reached the point of being pissed). They even had little charts and tables taped to the cash register so you could quickly estimate they 15/20/25% off so you could tell the customer that even just applying for the store credit card would save them 'x' amount of dollars right now on this purchase. The store talked a lot about advancement opporunity and growth through store provided training, but it was all just sales hype videos.

So don't get mad when they hound you at the register.... their job depends on it. Even if it is exactly the opposite of what you actually want in a retail experience.

Re:Geeksquad protection + credit cards (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | about 2 years ago | (#40249263)

Maybe if they did not obsess over metrics written by some MBA by hounded customers on geeksquad protection plans and credit card sales there would not be any drop. I went to a job fair yesterday to get some extra part time work under my belt and all the retailers are doing this. At JCPenny you can not be a cashier unless you have experience selling credit cards at 25% to poor people and that is the only metric that follows.

With 1 trillion in debt people are no longer consuming because of shady deals like this are strangling their customer base for those who are dumb enough to use them. Geeksquad is a ripoff and it is so annoying when all you want is a job.

Actually, those cards can prove to be a GREAT value!! They often, like the BB Rewards Zone, give you points or $$ to be used on other purchases. You just have to pay them off.

I don't generally buy anything I don't have cash in pocket for....I bought a 59" plasma from BB, and used their card. I got a new one for that which like doubled the rewards points...etc. I paid it off in cash when first bill was due...and out of that, I got basically a 'free' nook color which I'd been wanting to get and root into a nice tablet.

People's debt problems...are their own problems, not the CC purveyors. I have tons of credit...but use it judiciously. I do, on occasion on a big ticket item (my recent purchase of a loaded up mac pro)...take advantage of the 12 mo interest free financing which is a great deal!! Basically using their money to finance your purchase. I was able to get my mac a little earlier as that I'd only saved about half the price...so, I used the 12 mo financing (apple store)...first payment, I paid off what I had saved up for the mac, and calculated the remaining payments for 10 mos, and set my bank up to pay it about 2 days before due electronically automatically. Voila, computer is mine, and I don't even need to worry about the payments (although I do open the bills when they come in the mail, and routinely check my bank account when paying most of my other bills manually).

People getting into debt over their heads is their own stupidity....don't buy what you can't afford!!!

It doesn't get much simpler than that.

Local stores (3, Interesting)

jimwelch (309748) | about 2 years ago | (#40248483)

If we loose BB, all I have left is Target, Wal-mart, Staples, Office Depot and of course the INTERNET. My last 3 laptops came from Staples. Good Prices, Good Selection and NO pushy salesman! AND no LOUD music.

Re:Local stores (3, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40248515)

I used to work for them. THey are now pushy as they make all their money with their high interest rip off credit cards. At least it is not as bad as BB where you will be hassled 3x about the latest credit cards and geeksquad protection plans.

Sadly all retailers are doing this and it pisses customers off, yet the beancounters do not see this way.

Re:Local stores (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248553)

The music isn't that loud. You can avoid sales people with ease.

The selection of every Staples I've been to (Western Washington) has sucked, as have the prices, worse than Best Buy.

Re:Local stores (2)

houghi (78078) | about 2 years ago | (#40248997)

I see your subject. Read what you wrote. So what has one to do with the other?
None of them I would call a local store. For me a local store is a store that is owned by a local person, doing local business. Not something that happens to have a branch in the state or even in the county.

Re:Local stores (1)

tverbeek (457094) | about 2 years ago | (#40249185)

I live in a metro area of half a million, and since the demise of Circuit City and CompUSA, when it comes to new-hardware-in-hand-today, the only options are: Best Buy, Office Depot/Max, the Apple Store, Radio Shack, and the electronics sections of the grocery/department stores.

From time to time I drive past the little shop where I bought the printer, modem, and other gear I needed to go with the C64 I got for high school graduation back in '83. Last I looked it was a tattoo studio. The days of the local computer shop are gone. {sigh}

Re:Local stores (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40249277)

How often do you buy laptops?

One good one (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248485)

What brick-and-mortar stores make sense where you live?

Not many honestly. We don’t have Fry’s here in Nova Scotia (Atlantic Canada). A basic rundown of the geeky stores in my area:

- The source (basically circuit city/radio shack) go there if you want to have a teenager try to sell you a big screen TV or a high end power cord made by monster cable.

- Future shop (basically best buy but the employees are on commission which makes shopping their support annoying). They are basically the place to go for cables (they have monster cable too... but they also have reasonably priced stuff), memory sticks, or if you really need a hard drive.

Those are the “mainstream” ones. We also have some smaller local shops:

- Greenlyph / robotnik ... small hole in the wall computer shop. Very shallow inventory. Rarely have what you want in stock.. so they have to order it for you. Sometimes worth it to get a case or other heavy item through them.. but for the most part may as well buy online. Greenlyph is also really bad when it comes to getting back to you on parts coming in. They actually lost my business because of this. Very annoying to call for an estimate on when something might be in and finding out it’s been sitting there for 3 days.

- Jentronics – This is the one positive one on the list. Local electronics (resistors, diodes) shop. Great people who know their stuff. More expensive than digikey or mouser... but I still tend to shop their first. This is how you compete with the big online guys. By accepting you can’t beat the prices or selection and focusing on the service. They don’t try to up-sell me there... in fact they’ve down sold me a few times (“that’s overkill.. this would work”). I go there because I _enjoy_ the experience of browsing the isles and talking to the staff there. I avoid future shop because I can’t walk down an isle without 3 commission hungry kids attacking me (and then when I find something.. they want me to check it out immediately so they get credit for it..).

Re:One good one (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#40249209)

Oddly that sounds like most of Canada. You've got the source, future shop, maybe a bestbuy. Random local small in the hole computer shops. Though if you have no problem ordering online, try Canadacomputers or Tigerdirect. Also NCIX(though I hate them with a passion). CC will pricematch anyone in Canada though.

Salvation (4, Funny)

Sarten-X (1102295) | about 2 years ago | (#40248497)

Here's an idea that could definitely save these retailers.

People need entertainment, right? And they want something they like, right?

We'll hire a bunch of college kids, call them the "Media Squad" and have them review movies, video games, and music, and recommend them based on each customer's particular tastes. By sheer coincidence, they'll recommend things most that are brand new, and stuck with a high markup. To prevent the kids from getting any silly notions like recommending Hulu or other things we don't make profit on, we'll give them sales quotas.

What could possibly go wrong?

I don't go to Fry's often due to their return poli (2, Interesting)

firex726 (1188453) | about 2 years ago | (#40248505)

I don't go to Fry's often due to their return policy.

I've had far too many instances of them blaming a defective product on me and wanting to charge me the restocking fee.

The item will have the security/warranty tape on it as an indicator of tampering but they will say I took it off and broke it, then put a new piece on. BB is no questions asked pretty much.

Also BB is MUCH better for browsing for newer movies. Fry's has a bigger selection, but with them so cramped you can't just browse.

Re:I don't go to Fry's often due to their return p (4, Interesting)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 2 years ago | (#40248577)

Anecdote is anecdote, but I have never had an issue returning stuff to Fry's, My volume of sales is pretty high, they can see it when doing the return and im sure that reflects how they handle my requests. My only issue with Fry's was when i returned something as defective and I saw the kid put it in the "return to shelf' bins. I had to remind him that I was returning it as manufacturer defective.

Re:I don't go to Fry's often due to their return p (5, Funny)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40248867)

There are ways around stores that refuse to issue a refund on a broken item:
- Put the item for return in an envelope w/ delivery confirmation.
- Mail it back to store.
- Wait 30 days and then call the credit card company & file a dispute that you returned the item but never received a refund.
- CC company issues refund.

Re:I don't go to Fry's often due to their return p (1)

MobyDisk (75490) | about 2 years ago | (#40248951)

As they say "posession is 9/10ths of the law." I too can attest this works, but I did it differently:
- Try to return the item nicely
- If that fails, leave the item on their return counter along with a copy of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
- Take a picture of them both on the counter.
- Record a video of you leaving.
- File a complaint with the Better Business Bureau.
- Issue a chargeback. (I did this via mail I think.) In the chargeback letter, include the pictures, the letter, why you returned it, and a copy of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

Perhaps I was overdoing it a tad. In my case, it was a small vendor with a "NO RETURNS" sign (also took a picture of that). Like the other poster, it took 30 days but they sided with me. It was a small vendor, so maybe a larger vendor would fight it?

Re:I don't go to Fry's often due to their return p (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40249139)

You only got a refund because the store decided not to fight the chargeback.

Visa, MC, Discover, and Amex rules say a store can have a "no returns" policy as long as a sign is clearly posted.

You were supposed to return the item to the manufacturer.

local store (4, Funny)

SebNukem (188921) | about 2 years ago | (#40248517)

I put on my hat, replace my wallpaper with a high res picture of the brick wall, and head off to newegg.com.

An interesting comment near the end of the article (4, Insightful)

guido1 (108876) | about 2 years ago | (#40248541)

"I continue to believe in Best Buy and its future..." Schulze said in a statement.
followed immediately by "Schulze also said he was exploring options for his 20.1 percent stake in the company." and an accompanying article from here [forbes.com]

Looks like he's getting out as much as possible now.

Hurray for Microcenter?

Re:An interesting comment near the end of the arti (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40249009)

I think Best Buy is dying, mostly because they can't offer me (and lots of other people, it would seem) any reason to buy from them..

But the guy is retiring. That a) means diversified holdings are a lot more attractive now that he doesn't have a hand in running the company and b) stable, fungible assets are higher priority holdings. Even when you're quite wealthy, it sucks to wake up and find out that your paper worth took a huge drop because most of it is a single equity holding run by someone else.

I don't find the comment to be particularly interesting. At least, not when balanced against multibillion dollar losses. That's far more interesting and indicative than a retiring guy not being interested in maintaining an investment.

TV Sales (1)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | about 2 years ago | (#40248563)

I think Best Buy is just another victim of the low low margins on TVs. As a store selling TVs it's future is grimm.

Re:TV Sales (2)

Daniel_Staal (609844) | about 2 years ago | (#40248695)

It's not just the TVs. Or any one section of product. It's the customer service. The local Best Buy has eliminated checkout lanes. To actually buy something you need to get in line behind the people returning items (in a poorly laid-out fashion, which extends into the store), and wait while the person in front of you explains that, no, really, the dog didn't chew on his new game, it was just damaged in the packaging. And then wait as they go through some ten-step process to actually process the return.

I'm not sure what they actually want you to do at this point. They've reduced their selection so it's not worth looking at items, they've made it hard to actually give them money for things, and they've made getting service for something you've bought slow, for bad service. So, um, what's supposed to be the business model here? Step three being question marks doesn't work all that well in the real world...

Re:TV Sales (1)

aaarrrgggh (9205) | about 2 years ago | (#40248751)

I would argue they are another victim of the loss-leader business model. They effectively take a loss on everything in the hopes of making it up on extended warranties and overpriced Monster cables. The only time I shop there is when shipping will be a challenge and my time is more valuable than my money. With that mindset, I willingly pay twice what I think something is worth and try to get on with my life.

While Fry's is at the midpoint in my 3-mile daily commute from home to office, I rarely end up buying stuff there of any value. (Over the past six years I have spent on the order of $4k there (mostly for work), but aside from a few TVs, I doubt many tickets have been over $30. The number of times I have left empty-handed is more dramatic. They really need to work on merchandising, althoughg they have made big progress in organization compared to 4 years ago.

Instead... I have spent a good bit lately at Target! Got a few Sonos components, a Dyson, and a few other toys. Maybe not as much spent there as at Amazon, but a good bit.

Re:TV Sales (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40248993)

Have you seen BB prices?

They are not a loss leader, but rather the opposite. They overcharge and buy the bottom of the barrel out of date things for a high price, then try to nail the customer with geeksquad, then high interest credit cards, then have only one checkout so you are stuck behind a wall of overpriced candy and other items you are likely to buy while you wait and having 1 cashier saves money too.

They are greedy. However supply and demand dictates you either have a low margin and high volume ala Walmart, or you have high margin, low volume like a car dealership. BB is trying to have it both ways by being high volume and high priced for low quality items and are shocked it is not working out! This is why they push GeekSquad to make up for the loss. The last 2 CEOs bombed the company as they were former sales people who can not see the trees from the forest with an emphasis on sell sell sell only and not why and what does the customer want?

Re:TV Sales (1)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | about 2 years ago | (#40249243)

Hasn't Best Buy always been that way though? Wasn't that their strategy from the start? I think they got a big boost from the switch from CRT to LCDs. Then they coasted on TV's being important. A customer went to Best Buy to get a better selection of TVs. Now LCDs are a commodity and TV's still take up a thrid of the store.

Re:TV Sales (1)

Deadstick (535032) | about 2 years ago | (#40249219)

As a store selling TVs it's future is grimm.

...and another perfectly good English word loses its identity because a TV program was named after its homophone...

all other eletronics chains gone here (1)

peter303 (12292) | about 2 years ago | (#40248581)

We dont have Frys or MicroCenter. Just best Buy Walmart, Target, Sears. Cone are Circuit City, Compuware, Ultimate Electronics ...

Re:all other eletronics chains gone here (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248733)

I live in a small town. Here there's a Radio Shack and a recently added WalMart. Nothing else to speak of.

If I'm desperate, there's a Micro Center two cities away. I think I'd go there before I'd go to Best Buy, even though it's only one city away.

Oh goodness...you know what this means? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248593)

He's angling for Mitt Romney's VP Slot!

It's the only explanation.

Next, Zuckerberg and Facebook (1)

Animats (122034) | about 2 years ago | (#40248605)

Why should Schlutze stay to the bitter end? It makes sense to get out now. Especially if he has a good exit deal. He still owns 20% of the company, and is "exploring options" for unloading it.

I wonder if Zuckerberg will ever come back from his honeymoon. FB stock is in a screaming dive (it just dropped through $26.50). Revenue per user is down. Traffic stopped growing in mid-2011. A new study indicates that 80% of Facebook users never, ever buy anything from a Facebook ad. This would be a great time for Zuckerberg to leave and pursue other interests.

(So much for using users' personal information for ad targeting. There's getting to be a consensus in the targeted advertising community that the only really valuable info is what the user has previously purchased. Amazon and eBay have such info, but Facebook does not.)

Re:Next, Zuckerberg and Facebook (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40248923)

>>>Revenue per user is down.

Sometimes Facebook shoots themselves in the foot. I browse facebook using my Kindle, which has a full-sized web browser just like a tablet, and loads all of Facebook's ads (which generate revenue). About a week ago facebook started redirecting my kindle to mobile.facebook which has NO ads. So basically facebook is losing money every time I visit. If they had any sense they'd turn-off the redirect to the ad-free site.

Micro Center (1)

landofcleve (1959610) | about 2 years ago | (#40248619)

Micro Center [microcenter.com] Though the only thing I regularly buy there is blank optical media as the shipping costs offset the frugality of buying it online, unlike many other things.

If you're in Wisconsin... (1)

Kozz (7764) | about 2 years ago | (#40248627)

You could do a lot worse than check out Milwaukee PC [milwaukeepc.com]. Reasonable prices, knowledgeable staff. Even if their website does suck. ;)

Re:If you're in Wisconsin... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248715)

They are a decent enough shop. I pick up the random cables, fans, etc there - but they have some limited hours and limited stock. The website is dismal, for sure.

Best Buy is still the local retailer where I can view the selection and usually (and I have to stress usually) can get the stuff I need. Unfortunately, since mid last year, it seems their ability to replace stock on the shelves or offer reasonable prices has drifted.

I once tried to get a job at a Best Buy when they had a career fair. Their computer flagged me or something, so they refused to even speak to me in person. Ah joy.

ABT in Glenview, IL is a good place to get TV's / (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#40249223)

ABT in Glenview, IL is a good place to get TV's / home theaters / home appliances.

and they care about the workers there.

Good for local computer stores (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248639)

Here's my order of preference:
1. Local computer shop, few dollars more, but great service, and great at building customized solutions for me.
2. Microcenter, about 15 miles out of my way, with nearly everything, however, untrained staff and horrible wait in line.
3. Best Buy

2 near me (1)

NetNinja (469346) | about 2 years ago | (#40248655)

Fry's and Microcenter.

Bestbuy? What do I need them for again?

Re:2 near me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248713)

Fry's here as well. I used to buy all of my stuff from computer shows, but I'm not even sure if they have those any more.

Too bad Best Buy sucks... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248679)

I don't like Best Buy. They are overpriced and their selection sucks. Fry's on the other hand has had a great selection, good prices, but their customer service sucks. I can't imagine it would be that hard for some investor to create a similar model to Fry's and offer them some competition. If only I won the lottery ;)

What makes sense? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248699)

At odd hours, Best Buy and Future Shop (same store, actually).

Otherwise, Canada Computers.

That's about it. If Best Buy goes bust, Canada will have no nation-wide electronics chain at all (well, at least not a box store chain, there will still be the ghost of Radio Shack now "The Source" or "Bell Store").

Re:What makes sense? (1)

Anrego (830717) | about 2 years ago | (#40248885)

In an absolute pinch there is staples... but you gotta be all out of options and really need the hardware.

The future shop / best buy thing is weird. As you said, same owner, same basic store.. but slightly different. Biggest difference here is future shop runs on commission and best buy doesn't. This puts future shop at the absolute bottom of the list. You go there and are immediately decended upon by their sales guys. For someone who likes to casually browse this is insanely irritating. If you do take their help.. you are rewarded by being pressured to pay for it immediately (so they get the commission). The whole things makes for quite a bad experience imo.

Not because of profits! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248717)

He was pushed out of his position because the board uncovered an affair he was having with an unknown woman, and didn't want to be embarassed by the scandal. It has nothing to do with poor performance, which was projected and expected.

- Posting anon for very obvious reasons

Re:Not because of profits! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248983)

Are you the "other woman" or the ex-wife?

Bestbuy sucks (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 2 years ago | (#40248719)

Why on earth are you buying anything at BestBuy? They charge $30 for an HDMI cable. The only stuff that makes sense to buy locally are things that are so cheap that it doesn't make sense to pay the shipping on them. But BestBuy price gouges on the very things that might get me into the store so heavily that it's usually cheaper for me to buy the cable from newegg and get next day air shipping. A few weeks ago my wife lost the cable for her iPod, so I stopped by Bestbuy... they wanted $20. So I went to walmart: $5 (almost paid that) then I checked amazon and got it for 50 cents, free shippnig.

Now, when I walked out of BestBuy, angrily I might add, I had to drop a mouse pad, some speaker wire, and a book light that I had almost impulse bought. Way to go Bestbuy. I could have spent about $20 at your store, but because you decided you wanted to make 1000% profit on a 2 foot cable you're going to go out of business instead. Congrats.

Best Buy is garbage. (1)

MaWeiTao (908546) | about 2 years ago | (#40248731)

There aren't many physical store where I'd go for my electronics needs, with the exception maybe Costco, the Apple store and a handful of stores in the NYC area. The rest over-charge and are staffed by feckless incompetents. I've gone into Best Buy, and like Circuit City or CompUSA before them, always had the impression that no one, including management cared about offering any kind of service or value. Walk into those stores and there's this persistent sense they're trying to scam people. It's something your average consumer can sense, numerous little details, and sometimes big ones, all rubbing them the wrong way.

Having worked with clients on the other side of the process, companies carrying product in these stores, it's evident they're also being screwed in much the same way. They've got all these little schemes, payment structures and whatnot for guaranteeing shelf space. And even then you're banking on employees actually investing any effort into keeping shelves neat and stocked.

It doesn't take a genius to see that the American retail model has some serious problems. Thinking back a decade or more, even before I knew what I know now, I could see that it was only a matter of time before these stores were out of business. What's surprising is that Best Buy has stuck around this long. They're losing money hand over fist, but they had the money to spend on a tacky commercial featuring big name internet entrepreneurs, playing up the same selection of mobile phones everyone else carries. Just think about it, they're so incompetent that they couldn't even capitalize on the failure of Circuit City and others.

Re:Best Buy is garbage. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248853)

the Apple store

I stopped reading there.

Re:Best Buy is garbage. (2, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40249071)

the Apple store

I stopped reading there.

Why? THe Apple Store is how to do it if you sell expensive items. Walmart is how you do it for low margin items. The Apple Store pays its employees well, wont push you, gives you an excellent experience for the price.

Blame all around (3, Insightful)

Radres (776901) | about 2 years ago | (#40248763)

Just like when Circuit City went down, they're going to blame everyone but themselves. Circuit City's differential for years was that it had commissioned salespeople who were actually knowledgeable and gave a shit. Then they pulled their commissions, and when the economy started to falter, they died. They then turned around and blamed it on the recession, when everyone knew that their stores just sucked. So is it with Best Buy. In smaller markets, Best Buy is the only electronics store in town. You can count on walking the store and seeing many of the shelves empty because the merchandise is not in stock. They pay the salespeople diddly squat with no commissions, so you can count on having to browse the store yourself with little to no help from anyone. The only time you do get help is when you checkout the cashier will try to sell you an extended warranty that you don't need. Everything is overpriced, and most of the items they stock are of inferior quality.

I don't think anyone will ever try it, but here's an idea for how to run a store:

1) Hire people who know technology, and pay them adequately/treat them well to work the floor. Keep track of how much time your average customer walks the store without anyone offering to help, and work towards reducing that time.
2) Don't insult your customers with insane markups on things like cables, or with bullshit warranties, credit card offers, etc.
3) Instead of offering a wide range of choices with many of them shit, offer choices that someone has actually vetted as working properly, and keep them in stock. Don't waste the consumer's time and money with having to buy crap. In turn, you can expect your loss from returned merchandise to go down.
4) Make it a pleasure to shop your store and I might actually go there. Right now, it's a better experience to shop online. I can get reviews of products, narrow down my selection to the best possible one, and have a pretty good idea of what I'm buying. Much better than wasting time browsing some store. This is before considering that shopping online is actually cheaper. If when I went to your store I saw the same salespeople who had offered me good advice on other purchases I had made there before, guess what? I'd keep coming back because I'd value their input. The prices should be fair, meaning only a slight markup over what I could get online + shipping,

Amazon... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40248903)

...with Prime. It gets here in two days. One if I'm REALLY desperate for $3.99. I used prime way more than enough to get my money's worth. Not to mention they threw in free streaming to sweeten the deal. I was happy as can be to watch the Best Buy near my house go under. I went in the get a micro USB cable and they wanted something like $10. Staples was even more ridiculous, which is why I went across to Best Buy. But really, $10+ for several inches of cable.

And that doesn't even include the horror stories I have heard people tell me about Geek Squad rates. Inane. It _might_ be worth it if they were any good, but again from the stories I get regaled with I'm betting not so much.

There is the whole supply and demand thing. If you jack up the price enough they will go elsewhere or just stop buying. It's seriously Economics 101 and they don't get it. Their version is we demand money and you supply us with it; it just does not conform with reality. No, no pity for them. I'm glad the store near my house closed, so I could point and laugh. And if/when Amazon gets too greedy and someone else takes their place I'll point and laugh at them too.

Hard choices (1)

das3cr (780388) | about 2 years ago | (#40248931)

I've been burnt by BB in the past with their service. Since then I have not purchased a single item from them. Having said that they where one of my few choices. BB, Office Max and if I'm up for a drive ... Fry's.

I might have to find a local shop to start a relationship with. If I can find any with personality I like.

I shift to old, used gear; not so much new gear (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#40248949)

What brick-and-mortar stores make sense where you live?

ok you asked. for the bay area, my 2nd home (it seems) is halted (hsc electronics). excess solutions, weirdstuff, maybe some other lesser known bay area surplus electronics stores. but a special place in my heart for halted; great people and just a fun place to browse.

now, you won't find new chinese made-to-export gear there. this is a 10-50 year old surplus equipment store. lots of dust, resistors and ic sockets all over the floor aisles, etc. the same clerks seem to have been there for the past 25 years or so (about as long as I can remember going to the store).

its about the farthest thing I can imagine from the blatant consumerism crap you find at worstbuy. I dread having to buy new things, these days. I know the quality (inside) will suck compared to the old school stuff I am used to and grew up on. I do NOT relish having to even set foot in a worstbuy or even a frys, for that matter.

I'm not their target audience (worstbuy) but I lost interest in things 'new' since they are built progressively worse and worse each year. knowing how they should be built and seeing what you get for your money, it just makes me a little sick.

I escape to the past in the surplus stores. and I avoid 'the malls'. but you asked, so I answered.

Frys/Microcenter/TigerDirect, **PLEASE** expand... (3, Informative)

MetricT (128876) | about 2 years ago | (#40248967)

I live in Nashville, TN, and the only physical stores we have are Best Buy and Radio Shack. Our former CompUSA franchise was the high-water mark of sophistication before it went under.

Last week my brother and I traveled to San Diego on vacation, and since I was in the neighborhood, I decided to stop by Fry's and see what the hubbub was about. It's the frickin' geek Promised Land. I felt like a 10 year old kid wandering around the starship Enterprise.

Why can't we have nice things too? Atlanta has *2* Fry's, *2* Microcenters, and a TigerDirect. Nashville has precisely bupkis (BestBuy equals zero for any value you plug into it).

MBA's love to cluster because they assume their competitor sees gold in them thar hills and it's harder to be blamed for a bad decision when your competitor is doing it too. But doesn't it make sense to open a store somewhere else, someplace where you would *BE* the market?

Reality (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40249107)

BestBuy failed and continues to fail because their business model continues to be based on selling to people who don't know any better. When the market moved to a point where the person walking into BestBuy is more intelligent, more informed, and more able to gather correct information from the Internet than they get from the 18 yr old sales clerk, BestBuy became irrelevant.

Newegg.com and Amazon.com, even Walmart.com provides better selection, better information and better customer service. The question isn't why BestBuy's sales dropped 5%, it's why didn't it drop 25% or 75%. It's only a matter of time.

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