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History Will Revere Bill Gates and Forget Steve Jobs, Says Author

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the skynet-will-forget-both dept.

Microsoft 679

Hugh Pickens writes "PC Magazine reports that journalist Malcolm Gladwell, author of The Tipping Point and Outliers, has stirred up quite a controversy in tech circles with his off-the-cuff remarks that history will remember Bill Gates fondly while Steve Jobs slips into obscurity. Gladwell likened Gates' charitable work to the German armaments maker Oskar Schindler's famous efforts to save his Jewish workers from the gas chambers during World War II, and added that because of Gates there's a reasonable shot we will cure malaria. 'Gates, sure, is the most ruthless capitalist. And then he decides, he wakes up one morning and he says, "Enough." And he steps down, he takes his money, takes it off the table ... and I think, I firmly believe that 50 years from now, he will be remembered for his charitable work,' said Gladwell. 'And of the great entrepreneurs of this era, people will have forgotten Steve Jobs. Who's Steve Jobs again?' For all his dismissal of Jobs' legacy, however, Gladwell remains utterly fascinated with him. 'He was an extraordinarily brilliant businessman and entrepreneur. He was also a self-promoter on a level that we have rarely seen,' said Gladwell. 'What was brilliant about Apple, he understood from the get-go that the key to success in that marketplace was creating a distinctive and powerful and seductive brand.' Gladwell concludes that the most extraordinary moment in the biography of Jobs is when Jobs is on his deathbed and it's over and he knows it. 'And on, I forget, three, four occasions, he refuses the mask because he is unhappy with its design. That's who he was. Right to the very end, he had a set of standards. If he was going to die, dammit, he's going to die with the right kind of oxygen mask. To him it was like making him send his final emails using Windows.'"

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The big difference here is (1, Troll)

Stirling Newberry (848268) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273533)

that there is a Gates Foundation that might pay Gladwell, and there isn't a Jobs foundation that might.

Re:The big difference here is (5, Insightful)

DemomanDeveloper (2658739) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273599)

But say what you want about Microsoft or Bill Gates, but he sure has helped the world with the fortune he created during his lifetime. He sure is a great person for that reason, and kudos to Bill for that.

Re:The big difference here is (-1, Troll)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273613)

But say what you want about Microsoft or Bill Gates, but he sure has helped the world with the fortune he created during his lifetime.

Nice astroturfing, new account with no other comments.

He sure is a great person for that reason, and kudos to Bill for that.

Yes, let's all be sure to thank him for operating Microsoft anticompetitively and taking a giant shit on all of us for so many years. That's a great idea.

Go ahead, bring on the trollmods. I can afford the fucking karma.

Re:The big difference here is (2, Insightful)

DemomanDeveloper (2658739) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273653)

Yes, let's all be sure to thank him for operating Microsoft anticompetitively and taking a giant shit on all of us for so many years.

Yeah, what were they thinking when they dared to include web browser in their OS so that people could actually get online (and maybe get their favorite browsers' install files). How dare they!

Re:The big difference here is (3, Insightful)

msauve (701917) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273729)

"what were they thinking when they dared to include an 'embrace and extend,' proprietary network platform in their OS so that people might actually be locked into their ecosystem (despite the pre-existence of browsers based on open standards). "

Fixed that.

Re:The big difference here is (-1, Troll)

drinkydoh (2658743) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273765)

"what were they thinking when they dared to include an 'embrace and extend,' proprietary network platform in their OS so that people might actually be locked into their ecosystem (despite the pre-existence of browsers based on open standards). "

Fixed that.

Based on this comment you weren't around then. Netscape (now Firefox) was the one breaking all the standards and IE and Opera tried to play nice and according to standards.

Re:The big difference here is (3, Informative)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273889)

Please remind me again; who at Netscape invented ActiveX?

Re:The big difference here is (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273939)

IE and standards in the same sentence. WOW! Call the NYT, Batman, Superman and David Letterman : we have a new comedy hero in the house.

Hilarious. Any more clueless jokes? Come on. Entertain us, MS shill

Re:The big difference here is (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273735)

Add to that, that Jobs did give money to charity, except Jobs didn't advertise it, while gates apparently did it because it was 'expected' for the billionaires club. Bono said he has given tens of millions to charities under the table but refused to have his name attributed to it.

Which is more charitable in such cases?

Re:The big difference here is (4, Insightful)

fafaforza (248976) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273775)

Right. "Force" people to use computers that were a vast improvement over what they had before, or help all kinds of underprivileged people via an array of humanitarian efforts. Yup, definitely a scumbag. He gave us Windows, after all, and might have prevented other multinationals from making more money than they did.

What a shortsighted nerd view.

Astroturfing accusations without any evidence. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273801)

More and more I'm seeing users here toss around allegations of "astroturfing" or "shilling" any time anybody says something that isn't completely negative about Microsoft, or Apple, or Google, or Oracle, or Facebook, or Bill Gates, or Steve Jobs, or basically any other prominent company or individual.

Worst of all, this is done without providing any sort of evidence that astroturfing actually is taking place. The age of an account and the number of comments posted using it in the past are not evidence, by the way.

Martin Espinoza, please present some real evidence to show that this is indeed a case of astroturfing. At the very least, you'll need to prove that the "DemomanDeveloper" was in contact with a representative or representatives of Microsoft and/or Bill Gates, that an agreement was put in place for "DemomanDeveloper" to fake support for Gates, that consideration (financial or otherwise) was involved, and that Slashdot comment 40273599 was intentionally posted to fulfill the obligations of this agreement. I await your evidence.

Save the accusations of "astroturfing" and "shilling" for when such incidents can provably be shown to have happened. Otherwise, learn to accept that some people may have opinions that differ from yours, and that just because they support Microsoft, or Google, or Facebook, or Apple, or whoever, it does not mean that they are "astroturfing".

It really degrades the conversation here, Martin Espinoza, when people like you are tossing around "astroturfing" accusations and allegations day-in and day-out, with no evidence or proof of any kind. I'd expect that over at Digg or reddit, but not here.

Re:The big difference here is (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273673)

Lol. The Gates Foundation causes as much suffering as it TRIES to cure.

They invest in Monsanto, chemical factories, oil companies, and everything that promises profits even if really dirty. Their projects are uncontrolled, and Gates uses it as Tax avoidance method. Bing (pun intended) it. There is a LOT of criticism against the B&M G Foundation.

Re:The big difference here is (3, Informative)

gsgriffin (1195771) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273819)

Reference please. Foundations are legally bound to contribute to non profits only. If you're talking about where you invest the money in holding, then DUH, you invest in what is making money. Check every other foundation you admire except the Jobs Foundation, since there isn't one and the selfish guy thought he could take it to the grave and make his life better.

Re:The big difference here is (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273855)

A wonderful aspect to 'history' is its ability to weed out bias of current times. Bill Gates will have his footnote in history but it will be for Microsoft's massive damage to IT development along with crippling the growth of the Internet and for the Gates Foundation's active participation in killing off public education for a segregated, limited access, privatized school system and the boosting of Big Pharma's unlimited growth at the expense of actual health-related problems. Bill Gates has always been a very opportunistic, profit-driven capitalist.

Re:The big difference here is (1, Troll)

Whiney Mac Fanboy (963289) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273619)

that there is a Gates Foundation that might pay Gladwell, and there isn't a Jobs foundation that might.

True, but that's kind of the point isn't it?

Both men were (or are) assholes. Businessmen intent on screwing their competitors, colleagues, customers, whoever to make a buck.

But in the end, Gates is using some of his money to give a false impression of philanthronpy, whereas Jobs is just another dead tycoon.

Re:The big difference here is (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273711)

Thing is : you have no clue what philanthropic work has been done by Jobs. Unlike Gates who like to put his freaking fucking face in each and every camera, Jobs did it privately as it should be done. Do good, and don't talk about it. Gates is an attention whore. Always was, always will be.

Wow. Fucking trolls are up and about early today. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273815)

You need to get a grip on reality since you clearly don't know the history behind your god, Steve Jobs. First off, Steve Jobs didn't do much good, and, in the event he did and I'm just consciously ignoring it, he was able to do so only because he acted ruthlessly and atrociously at very opportune times doing much evil at the expense of others (see this article about Gil Amelio [lowendmac.com] . Second, Steve Jobs treated most of the underlings he worked with like absolute shit, especially the designers and developers who actually did work, and not just directed, and the same really can't be said for Bill Gates, who was one of the more gentle CEOs the industry has ever seen.

Actually, looking at your slashdot handle, Whiney Mac Fanboy [slashdot.org] , I'm really not surprised. Fanboy, indeed.

Re:The big difference here is (4, Insightful)

sed quid in infernos (1167989) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273901)

Gates's talking about it got Buffet to donate more than a billion dollars. There's little doubt that he has gotten others to contribute significant money, too. Jobs was well equipped to do the same, had he chosen to do so. I'm not going to knock Jobs for however he conducted his philanthropy. There are trade-offs involved in everything, and Jobs made his for reasons that presumably made sense to him. Good for him. And good for Gates for deciding to apply not just his money but his prestige to the causes he cares about.

And let's ignore that there are at least some beneficent motives for being public about charitable giving, and assume for a minute Gates is just in it for the attention. So the hell what? It means that society has found a way to channel base motivations to do impressive good. That's a good thing. I prefer a world where attention whores give billions to disease prevention and education to a world in which they do something useless or actively harmful to get attention.

Re:The big difference here is (3, Insightful)

FitForTheSun (2651243) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273905)

Steve Jobs famously publicly eschewed charity. Whether that was a front for secret charity, I don't know, but unless you do know, the parsimonious conclusions is that he wasn't a charitable person.

Re:The big difference here is (1, Insightful)

Real_Reddox (1010195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273769)

But in the end, Gates is using some of his money to give a false impression of philanthronpy

Oh yeah, how dare he use his money to cure malaria, the false bastard

Re:The big difference here is (-1, Troll)

segedunum (883035) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273875)

Oh yeah, how dare he use his money to cure malaria, the false bastard

Curing malaria? No. 'Treating' it forever and a day? Yes. Why? Well, a cure would kind of put a dampener on the gravy train that is the Gates Foundation, especially for all the drugs companies getting money sloshed through it.

Re:The big difference here is (5, Insightful)

Ralish (775196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273827)

How sad and cynical do you have to be to seriously believe that all the time and money Gates has spent, especially post-Microsoft, is some sort of elaborate ploy to make people think better of him? I'm sure he's under no illusion that he can convince certain elements of the Slashdot community, but really, that's far more a reflection on those people than it is him.

Your comment has truly depressed me. Doubly so that it got modded anything other than flamebait.

Re:The big difference here is (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273847)

Both men were (or are) assholes. Businessmen intent on screwing their competitors, colleagues, customers, whoever to make a buck.

Yes, they were faithful worshippers of the God of Ego. Get ahead, screw everyone else, throw to your lapdogs and underlings only as many scraps off your table it takes to keep them from walking away. That's what we select for. That's what Western culture is all about. The only reason the Soviets and the USA needed a doctrine like M.A.D. is because this mentality needs a *selfish* reason not to blow up the planet.

Re:The big difference here is (2)

trptrp (2041816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273669)

Exactly. Wasn't there an article on slashdot some time ago where somebody showed how much money from the Gates Foundation was almost wasted by investing it in an inefficient way into the amercian school system!? It was a lot of money.

Re:The big difference here is (1, Interesting)

sycodon (149926) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273701)

Kind of hard to build a legacy when you're DEAD.

PC Magazine was always in the tank for M.S. anyway.

Re:The big difference here is (3, Insightful)

Haedrian (1676506) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273919)

Its not like he (and apple) weren't rolling in cash before Jobs died...

On the other hand... (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273813)

there is a Gates Foundation that might pay Gladwell, and there isn't a Jobs foundation that might.

Bill Gates has had impact on people way beyond the realm of consumer technology and Steve Jobs did not.

One took his money and looked around to see what needed to be done, the other sold a whole bunch of shiny shit to people who (mostly) couldn't afford it.

Re:The big difference here is (2)

fooslacker (961470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273831)

I don't think it's likely related to money in this case. Full disclosure...I'm not quite a fanboy but I do own several apple products, haven't bought a PC in probably 5 years or more, and prefer OSX or Linux to Windows.

I think he's saying we remember folks who make large humanitarian or health contributions to society for longer because it's more relevant to more people for longer than products we consume. We remember some industrialists because they so far outshone their contemporaries and had an effect for more generations. With the speed that technology now improves that seems less and less likely to happen in todays cycle without a major fundamental breakthrough in physics but health related discoveries continue to remain relevant because humans don't change that fast physically. If Gates cures malaria (or rather people Gates has funded) he's probably correct in that he will be remembered longer and in a positive light.

That said the use of the word "revere" is a bit of poetic license on the part of the author of the original article. Gladwell actually claimed the 3rd world would revere him and raise statues to him for curing malaria but even that is silly in my opinion. I mean where are the statues of Jonas Salk (and I don't mean one sitting in his home town or at a university, I mean in all the various places polio was a problem)? I think Gates end up in text books and be remembered longer than Jobs as the driving force that found a cure but it will be in books and schools that his name is mentioned not in the streets like Gladwell predicts. All of this of course is moot if his folks don't find a cure.

What the Author is Saying... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273833)

The author is not really saying that Bill Gates will be known for Microsoft or Intellectual Ventures. Yes, his software were extremely flawed. Yes, he contributed greatly to the nightmare that is the Intellectual Property system of the U.S. But all of that doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter because Bill bought a "Get out of Jail" card with the Gates foundation. The ignorant masses will remember him as they remember Alfred Nobel. Ask the average idiot (defined as non-Slashdot reader) what they know about Nobel and they will immediately say "Peace Prize". The average idiot will not know about his relation to the development of dynamite and other explosives, his production of armaments, or even the death of his brother.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Nobel

Frosty Piss (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273535)

Bitches

error in submission (5, Interesting)

alphatel (1450715) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273539)

..it was like making him send his final emails using Windows

The problem is twofold. First of all, sending an email using Windows is actually better than using a Mac, which treats email like some archaic throwback to the dark ages.
The second is that Jobs hatred of Windows was as much a blessing as it was a curse. There was nothing wrong with giving people a decent car to drive. So what if it is not god's gift to mankind. It is amazing that Steve did what he did but it was driven by his perception of what is better. Ultimately both were businessmen who did well. One left to focus on something else. Both will be dead. Both will be remembered. And it's unlikely that either will fade.

Re:error in submission (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273557)

"email... mac.. blah blah..."

You like making stuff on the fly do you ?

Re:error in submission (1, Troll)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273571)

There was nothing wrong with giving people a decent car to drive. So what if it is not god's gift to mankind.

You can't make a car analogy here, because it would be retarded. The problem with Windows has always been that Microsoft abused their position. They abused their position as an OS vendor by tweaking products to be less interoperable with their competitors' software. They abused their thus-gained monopoly position through all manner of anticompetitive practice. This resulted not only in a dearth of customer choice (necessary for a healthy marketplace) but also in actual negative financial impact to human beings.

There are plenty of reasons to hate Microsoft products, but the biggest reason not to pay for them is that the money will just be used to fuck the industry some more — and thus, all the users.

Re:error in submission (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273681)

"They abused their position as an OS vendor by tweaking products to be less interoperable with their competitors' software. They abused their thus-gained monopoly position through all manner of anticompetitive practice. This resulted not only in a dearth of customer choice (necessary for a healthy marketplace) but also in actual negative financial impact to human beings."

Wait, are you talking about Microsoft or Apple here?

Re:error in submission (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273719)

Wait, are you talking about Microsoft or Apple here?

I'm talking about Microsoft, but give Apple time and success and you'll likely be able to reuse the quotation and apply it to them. Apple does not and never has had a monopoly, not even on apps for iDevices, although I do think their attempts at lockdown are anticompetitive.

Re:error in submission (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273869)

>Wait, are you talking about Microsoft or Apple here?
LOL kids...

Re:error in submission (0)

Stormthirst (66538) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273683)

Welcome to capitalism 101.

Re:error in submission (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273899)

Monopoly is to capitalism what cancer is to humans. It's not 101 at all.

Re:error in submission (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273715)

Yeah, let's ignore how completely incompatible Macs have been to other OSes and between macos revisions, till osx came out... Your mac is 6+ months old? End of the line; rebuy your software.
And let's ignore how Nokia, RIM, etc have been screwing their customers, too. (extreme incompatibility, inexcusably slow/unusable UI)
And then the devtools ...

Re:error in submission (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273851)

Yeah, let's ignore how completely incompatible Macs have been to other OSes and between macos revisions, till osx came out... Your mac is 6+ months old? End of the line; rebuy your software.

The only Macintosh computer I have is a SE with a Radius accelerator in, which runs some kind of System 6 and has Word 5.1 on it. I use it as a doorstop. I even have an AppleCD 300 that I don't use.

My computer (as in, my main machine) is an X-Blade case with a GA-MA770-UD3P v1.0 in it, carrying a Phenom II X3 720 (about to upgrade to the 2.7 GHz X6, bought used, in the mail) and a 240GT. No component cost over $100 (even have an Intel X25-M 80GB coming that I got as new open box for $80) and it's a seriously, seriously old PC now. I am running Ubuntu Precise, but I am considering moving to something else because suspend/resume is broken again, whiskey tango foxtrot. Now THERE is a problem that Mac users don't have to fucking contend with.

I briefly considered an AppleTV for the living room, when the big loud PC that I got for $125 at a yard sale with a 20" LCD (Gateway GT5475E, IIRC) cacked. Pretty sure it's the motherboard. I bought a Acer Boxer MB.SAR01.002 Motherboard with the OEM cooler for $30 via eBay, and swapped the Athlon 64 X2 4000+ and my upgraded 2GB of RAM over and dropped in an 80GB 2.5" SATA disk I had lying around. The case is a wooden art supply carrying case that my Fiancee got at a yard sale for $5. Card reader and power button from the gateway. $10 slot-loading Sony DVD-RW (I know, Sony, but it was way cheap) and $3 SATA to Mini-SATA cable from Dealextreme for the optical capability. I just need to finish the front bezel to make it look pretty, and shore the optical drive and so on up properly, and I'm done. Stick-on cork feet cut from a sheet bought at Daiso in Daly City for $1.50.

I go into this excruciating detail to point out that I am a cheap fucking bastard, so there is no way I am an Apple lover. I used macs "back in the day". My mother is a graphic artist and she got a Mac IIci with a Mac two-page mono display back when the fastest mac was the IIfx, almost exclusively to run Pagemaker 4.2. I had an '040 Performa for a while. Later I put netbsd on that IIci (and a cache card in) and still later I threw the whole thing in the garbage. But then I got a 386DX40 with 8MB for $30, got a 120MB IDE disk for $80, got a 1MB Trident VGA card for $20 or so and a super-crap XGA monitor for $20 and added a stack of slackware floppies... the rest is the present.

Re:error in submission (5, Insightful)

realityimpaired (1668397) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273645)

The article is right, though... 50 years from now, Steve Jobs' chief contribution will have been the creation of a design company that hasn't actually come up with a new idea since a couple of years before Jobs' death. I would be surprised if Apple is still in existence in 50 years. Jobs will end up as a footnote in history. I would be equally surprised if Microsoft is still in existence in 50 years, but they do have a better chance because they're ruled by committee. How many people remember what Douglas Engelbart did for computing? This place is populated by geeks, and I'd lay odds that several people reading this don't know what he did, even though modern computers couldn't work the way they do without his contributions. 50 years from now, Jobs will be in the same category.

Here's the thing... the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is set up as a self-perpetuating trust. They are spending gobs of cash, but they're only spending the interest and are actually profitable despite the amount of money they're spending on charity work. Barring some kind of global economic meltdown orders of magnitude worse than the one in 2008, 50 years from now the Gates Foundation will still be around, and will still be doing charitable work. For that reason alone, Bill Gates will be better remembered by history.

Remembered like the Rockefellers (2)

k(wi)r(kipedia) (2648849) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273929)

I suspect that Gates will be remembered more as a foundation than as a person. I'm not sure how Bill Gates the person will be remembered by history.

Re:error in submission (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273753)

>sending an email using Windows is actually better than using a Mac

ROFLCOPTER. Never heard something this ridiculous in my 27 years of IT.
You have no clue about what you are talking.

The drag-and-drop functionality of Windows is sub-par and vastly inferior, I would even call it dysfunctional.
Attachment handling is horrible
Unicode encoding is a nightmare.

Go back under your rock MS-shill.

PS : Yes, I know windows. Very well. I am accustomed to Windows, Linux, OSX, Solaris, AIX, *BSD and a bunch of others.

I disagree.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273543)

Steve Jobs will still be remembered as one of the most ruthless names in business, not just in Silicon Valley.

He will not be remembered for anything more than that, though.

Re:I disagree.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273791)

Changing 6 industries, being named as the CEO of the century and having made the most astonishing growth and come-back story in the economic history EVER isn't enough apparently.

Apple haters are really disillusional.

BTW : The WWW you are currently using was invented on NeXT computers (by Sir Berners-Lee)...built and created by Steve Jobs.

Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (4, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273555)

I was just discussing this on G+ where it was claimed that Billy boy has wiped out Polio in the third world. To which I said, Uh, No.

Bill Gates has temporarily suppressed Polio in certain parts of the third world and helped sell it out in the process. In order to get vaccinations you have to provide strong IP protection to Big Pharma. So strong that if your people are dying and you make the medication to save them instead of buying it because you can't afford it that the WTO will end up owning your asshole. Meanwhile, they're not going to get into every nation, which is what it actually takes to eradicate a disease. Instead they are lending a false sense of security while creating a ticking time bomb.

Meanwhile, the foundation makes for-profit investments in industries literally killing the people they are vaccinating. When caught in this they first announced that they would review their investments for ethics; the next day they took down that press release and put up another one saying that they would not be reviewing their investments' ethical nature because it would be difficult and expensive.

The Gates Foundation is not and never has been about improving the world. The money that went into its foundation belongs, by rights, to the American people, because Microsoft was found to have illegally abused its monopoly position by the USDoJ, which had a profound effect on essentially every player in the computing industry. However, Bush's dog Ashcroft announced that there would be zero repercussions, and the Gates foundation was founded, and now does the work of Big Pharma and the WTO.

And of course, let us not forget that Gates is personally, massively invested in pharma; the operation of a nonprofit which was created with illicitly-gained money and which exists to spread the laws desired by Big Pharma is therefore a clear conflict of interest. You may start with the LA Times article "Dark Cloud over Good Works of Gates Foundation" and perform your research from there. Bill Gates has never done anything for the benefit of mankind. If you fell for the Gates Foundation, you need a course in critical thinking in the worst way.

Anyone who believes that Bill Gates is trying to save the world probably also believed that Larry Ellison just wanted to reduce crime in the USA when he was backing that unified national ID program, too.ï

(quick comment since I was JUST talking about this and just had to do a bit of edit and reformat, not an appropriated copypasta.)

Re:Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (-1, Troll)

DemomanDeveloper (2658739) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273621)

I was just discussing this on G+

Nice astroturfing there again, drinkypoo. Everyone knows that nobody actually uses Google+.

It's nice you have given it a nickname of G+ too. We have a real shill here, people.

Re:Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (0, Troll)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273643)

Nice astroturfing there again, drinkypoo. Everyone knows that nobody actually uses Google+.

Ah yes, now you have two comments. Congratulations [google.com] .

Re:Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (2, Informative)

dissy (172727) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273689)

We have a real shill here, people.

Says the person who created an account just for trolling this one story, with no comments prior [slashdot.org] ...

Does Microsoft pay well? I hear the benefits are pretty nice.

Not to the outworkers... (1)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273849)

I think Microsoft employees are above such stuff. There is plenty of cheap Indian labour to work for their PR astroturfing companies. (Note that the GPP post is not only an account specially created for the job, but the English is poor.)

Re:Not to the outworkers... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273893)

Interestingly, there are apparently plenty of mod points, too. All of the comments pointing out that this new account is an astroturfer (except yours, so far) have been moderated troll.

Re:Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (2)

cellocgw (617879) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273667)

^This.
Unfortunately, history is written by the winners, and dead people don't win. Plus these days, history is written by the rich.
I have to wonder about Gladwell. He started out writing interesting science articles, descended into cherry-picking data to support odd claims, and now this? If it weren't for Jobs, we'd still be running our PCs off the DOS control line (or maybe IBM OS-2.x).

Who will remember Gladwell? (2, Interesting)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273909)

Gladwell, and let me emphasise that this is my personal opinion and I am willing to be persuaded otherwise by evidence, always strikes me as a journalist who has risen without trace, is treated as some sort of philosopher god by a coterie, and yet, like the old Chinese meal joke, ten minutes after reading one of his articles you forget that you read anything and want some intellectual sustenance.

For a real world example though, the biggest medical charity in the world is possibly the Wellcome Trust. Its single biggest achievement is, in effect, preventing Venter from patenting the human genome and thus keeping almost all modern medical research open. How many people know or care who founded it?

Re:Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273837)

You are insane.
Irradicating polio in a nation even if only for a while is only a good thing. Maybe they only need 20 years before they are developed enough to sort themselves out.

Is anyone dying because of drug patents? Im struggling to think of a life saving drug that isn't available generically. They'd recieve a lower standard of treatment but more or less every painkiller, antibiotic, class of heart medication and vaccine is available generically.

Strong IP protection for big pharma is currently extremely necessary.
Drug development isn't cheap. It's not like programming where one nerd and a $1000 dollar computer can generate something of worth. Even if you were to blunder across a molecule of interest that needed minimal modification to be deliverable to the target organ, the testing will cost millions with no guarentee of sucess.
Pharmaceutical patents are also some of the shortest lasting. They last only 14 years and the inventing company has even less time to make money on it since testing can take a while before it can go on sale.

Now if we were in an ideal world where all drug development was funded generously by tax and not private enterprise i'd agree that patents would be counter productive but at the moment they are the only reason to spend billions on research.
Big pharma is dying because of the short patent term, lack of new blockbuster drugs and the increased strictness of testing (aspirin wouldn't make it to market as a painkiller in todays world because of reyes syndrome) so something will have to be changed by the industry or by governments. I wish they'd start by making all drug advertising illegal then maybe they'd have a bit more money to work with.

Re:Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273921)

You are insane.

Ad Hominem.

Is anyone dying because of drug patents?

Seriously? You're really going to ask that question? You don't actually want the answer, do you? AIDS drugs are expensive largely because of patents, and 30 children die every hour because of AIDS-related complications. That's one illness.

Strong IP protection for big pharma is currently extremely necessary.

[citation needed]

Drug development isn't cheap.

The vast majority of Big Pharma's expenditure is on advertising. Much of the funding to create their drugs actually comes from the taxpayer, because the fundamental research is carried out at public universities.

Now if we were in an ideal world where all drug development was funded generously by tax and not private enterprise i'd agree that patents would be counter productive

Great. Let's do that. There's no reason we can't do that; the fundamental research is already done at universities. Now the trials will have to be done by the universities instead of private firms that find it much easier to hide inconvenient results.

I wish they'd start by making all drug advertising illegal then maybe they'd have a bit more money to work with.

Well, now you have found something on which we can agree 100%.

Re:Probably. But he doesn't deserve it. (1)

segedunum (883035) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273923)

I was just discussing this on G+ where it was claimed that Billy boy has wiped out Polio in the third world. To which I said, Uh, No.

Bill Gates has temporarily suppressed Polio in certain parts of the third world and helped sell it out in the process. In order to get vaccinations you have to provide strong IP protection to Big Pharma. So strong that if your people are dying and you make the medication to save them instead of buying it because you can't afford it that the WTO will end up owning your asshole. Meanwhile, they're not going to get into every nation, which is what it actually takes to eradicate a disease. Instead they are lending a false sense of security while creating a ticking time bomb.

I'm pleased to see this has been modded as it should be. I've said something like this in the past and the usual suspects (those with their hands in this very large cookie jar when you have a look at their 'blogs') were out in force. There is a lot of money sloshing through this 'foundation' and that makes it a magnetic for all kinds of sordid schemes from the pharmaceuticals. You have to be exceptionally naive to buy the whole 'philanthropic for the good of mankind' image that has been put up around this. Alas, most people are that naive when it comes to charities. That's what makes them a good vehicle for being above any kind of scrutiny.

No one will remember Malcolm Gladwel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273559)

Or his predictions.

bill gates destroyed more than he created (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273569)

In 50 years history will understand bill gates destroyed more than he created.

Of course (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273575)

Malcolm Gladwell will have sunk into obscurity long before either of those guys.

perhaps he saying don't fordet? (1)

blagooly (897225) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273605)

Perhaps it is because the Bradbury quote about "why 451" is fresh in my mind? I take from this that the author is saying, don't forget this guy. Describing a future he sees, and does not like? Gates may in the end get the "better man" historian vote, if this requires some recognition of others, some societal requirement. Some discovery of the world around him. Jobs was an almost mythical, legendary, individual force of nature.

hello? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273609)

so what did Bill do? run away with his money. For what innovation or invention will he be remembered for? Windows? lol If you know well about how the system works, this donation thing and personal foundations is a tax evasion scheme. All his life he was the bad guy...people forget easily.

Ignore the douchebag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273611)

People will remember Steve Jobs. No one will remember the author, and that's what he really wanted.

They will both be forgotten (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273615)

In the same way that everyone remember Columbus, but no one remembers his financial supporters, I don't think Gates will be remembered for curing malaria or whatever else he gives money too.
Leading a successful company just isn't interesting enough for you to be remembered for hundreds of years.

Inverse? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273627)

If anything, Gates has taken more of a backseat publicly in recent years, where as Jobs was out and about before his untimely end.

Reasonable chance we will cure malaria? (5, Interesting)

Shoten (260439) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273631)

Not in the DRC. A friend of mine is a producer for National Geographic, and they've just finished filming a documentary there. Those mosquito nets that Gates is paying to have distributed? Most people use them...as nets to catch fish. This is one of the big problems with non-profit groups. They often seem to be more focused on how hard they are trying than about how effective their actions really are.

But not in the textbooks (0)

michaelmalak (91262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273633)

50 years from now, there will be a chapter, or at least a paragraph, of Jobs' handiwork in an industrial design textbook (or eBook). No one will care what Gates did because the environmental condition that permitted his tactics -- closed-source, closed file-format, vendor lock-in, intentional incompatibility with competitors -- will never exist again.

Re:But not in the textbooks (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273697)

Obviously they will both end up in textbooks. Jobs for his marketing and design probably, and gates because he started the company that dominated the OS marketplace for years.

Re:But not in the textbooks (2)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273785)

50 years from now

50 years from destruction of Microsoft, not from now.

Bill who? (0, Troll)

longk (2637033) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273659)

Sorry, I didn't catch it. Too busy playing with my iPhone.

Half Right, Half Wrong (3, Insightful)

whisper_jeff (680366) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273677)

He's right - Gates probably will be remembered fondly in time. Gates is using his vast fortune to do a lot of good things now and it will make an already-memorable man more so.

He is, however, entirely wrong that Jobs will be forgotten. Jobs is, simply put, the most successful CEO in history. I don't think that can even vaguely be debated (at least not intelligently). Some could even argue that his success as a CEO makes him also the most successful _leader_ of all time. Of course, some will argue against that theory. Regardless of your thoughts on it, however, you will be discussing him and thus he will not be forgotten, at least not for many, many generations.

And, no, I didn't read the article - I refuse to read any article that so obviously utilizes inane controversy to generate page views and bump of ad revenue.

Re:Half Right, Half Wrong (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273777)

Do you know how much money I didn't steal from society through abuse of monopoly that I didn't obtain because I am a decent person? How many projects I didn't destroy? How many areas of human thought I didn't shit up by forcing thoughts-destroying frameworks on people involved there?

Any reasonably decent person, myself included, contributed to the development of society hundreds of billions dollars more than Gates ever will. Hell, even Jobs counts, and he is only a half-decent person.

Both will be remembered (4, Insightful)

medcalf (68293) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273691)

Gates like Rockefeller, and Jobs like Ford. And I suspect each would be content with that.

Re:Both will be remembered (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273799)

Jobs was a Nazi?!

Eh, I wouldn't say that. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273699)

Jobs will be remembered for being one of the most successful businessmen of this era.
He still manages to, despite the handicap of being DEAD, sell stupidly over-priced products simply on brand name alone. And this will continue for probably a good decade or 2.

Apple OSes only had one thing over others, and that was in the past when they were on Power hardware and x86 was absolutely abysmal for performance.
So this made them godlike (what, that is a word? Surely it needs a hyphen?) for producing virtual content such as games, CG, movies and audio.
That is no longer the case anymore. x86, through some sort of miracle actually managed to get better, and IBM got lazy. (IBM seem to have been on a course of suicide for the past couple decades it seems)
The only advantage they have now is that the OS is used less than Windows, so less targeted by hackers and crackers.
BUT, this now incorrect fact is still spread around and people still believe it.

Personal opinion, but it saddens me seeing students waste money on these things and seeing entire lecture halls filled with them.
Even more so if it is that absolutely terrible excuse of hardware called Mac Air.
If you are going to get a Mac, get a real Mac, don't get some stupid gimmicky crap.
A netbook has more worth. Raspberry Pi has more worth!
And just in general people moaning about having no money... on the INTERNET. Priorities!

Hate to point this out (1)

NotSoHeavyD3 (1400425) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273707)

because of Gates there's a reasonable shot we will cure malaria.

I guess I'm just totally jaded at times but I figure this will end up not working once the anti-vax nuts rear their heads. (You know, like how they supposedly had polio on its last legs and oh crap the anti-vaxers showed up and it got back out.)

No one remembers brialliant self promoters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273723)

Just look at PT Barnum or Walt Disney. Who ever heard of them?

Steve Jobs' name will live on. If you study computers, it'll live on. If you study business, it'll live on. If you study phones, it'll live on. If you study retail, it'll live on. It you study accessibility, it'll live on. If you study If you study comebacks, it'll live on.

Butthurts (1)

Fuck_this_place (2652095) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273733)

The butthurt is very strong in this thread. It's as if a million poor, virgin nerds cried out all at once and nobody cared.

Well also perhaps because.... (2)

Yew2 (1560829) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273741)

imho Jobs shed his hippy roots and became not just a ruthless capitalist himself but made Apple pretty imperialistic - yes we all know the complete control over hardware and software was a pro vs. con of apples over PCs but apple pushed the line into making some consumer choices not just with the app store but what was "allowed" on the platform itself. I found it shocking that even though we all know Microsoft does little things in Windows to give its app layer products the edge over its competitors compatibility was always there, one way or another....in my eyes Jobs was a ruthless dictator and the Microsoft counterparts were like modern democracy (if you pay, anyone can play)

Bill Gates caused irrepairable harm to mankind... (0)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273743)

...on par with Catholic Church and its Inquisition. His little "charity" is nothing but a continuation of his attempts to control people who are superior to him in every imaginable aspect.

Re:Bill Gates caused irrepairable harm to mankind. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273835)

...on par with Catholic Church and its Inquisition. His little "charity" is nothing but a continuation of his attempts to control people who are superior to him in every imaginable aspect.

Erm what? I'd like to hear you explain how Bill Gates has been as bad for humanity as the dark ages.

Re:Bill Gates caused irrepairable harm to mankind. (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273853)

We ARE in the dark ages of technology, you moron!

I'm not so sure about that... (0)

supremebob (574732) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273755)

I figure that being of the CEO of a company who created both the first tablet and the first smartphone that didn't suck has to be worth a few lines in the history archives a few hundred years from now.

His Pixar work probably deserves a blurb as well... along with his incredible salesman skills that made everything else he did seem far more important that what it actually was.

Gates is just trying NOT to be remembered as CEO of the company who created Windows and Office, two of the most hated software products of all time.

but what about Richard Stallman? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273759)

will anyone remember him?

Apple: A Force of Will (1)

Tempest451 (791438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273767)

In some sense, the OP is right. We can see it now that there isn't much in the way of real innovation coming down the pipe since the death of Jobs. It seems that Jobs himself was the driving force for the company. I don't expect much more in the way of SIRI and sadly it will be a case of falling into pace with other PC and phone company developments, never really breaking new ground.

i'm afraid (1)

KingBenny (1301797) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273771)

unless you're a serious mass murderer to the point of genocide or at least millions have died in your name, you'd have to be some kind of truly enlightened figure to last at least one Thousand years so from my unique pov down here i'm afraid neither of them will last long enough to call it history tell me who's von neumann?

Malcolm Gladwell is a Pseudointellectual (4, Interesting)

tirefire (724526) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273773)

I read Gladwell's book Outliers a few months back. I thought he made some reasonable, if somewhat obvious points, until he went completely off the rails when he discussed differences in math schooling between China and the US.

In short, he said that the way chinese count gives them an edge in learning calculus, because the chinese say the number 13 as "three and ten", building the number out of simpler, more fundamental numbers, whereas in the US children must learn an entirely new word: "thirteen". He ignored how studying calculus concepts like differentials and integrals at a young age (I think around junior high age) is the norm in China, whereas in the US, students only get a watered-down "pre-calc" in their senior year of high school unless they're really ambitious and they take AP classes in their later teens.

There's an excellent review of Outliers that was published in The New Republic available here [powells.com] , for those with a lugubrious interest in learning precisely why we should ignore Gladwell.

Re:Malcolm Gladwell is a Pseudointellectual (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273825)

Gladwell is right but for the wrong reason. Part of the reason the Chinese excel at math is because learning the Chinese language requires massive memorization of formulas essentially to learn how to write 2000 different characters. So after that learning a couple dozen math formulas is nothing. Meanwhile American kids only have to memorize 36 characters or so which means they're memorization discipline is weak by the time they get far enough in to math were they have to memorize heavily.

The other reason the Chinese are good at math is because they don't have excuses. In China you can't say "Oh, I'm just not good with numbers" and expect to be taken seriously as a person. That's just not a cop out you can use. Meanwhile every American kid who didn't study enough and forgets some algebra formulas just figures "Hey, I'm just bad at math" and then goes and does a literature degree or whatever.

Apple II (1)

Jetra (2622687) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273783)

I love how everyone on this forum forgot how Steve Jobs was the first to make Personal Computers affordable to the general public. Him and Steve Wozniak should be remembered as the PC Pioneers, not the iPod empired that they created. WIthout them, we wouldn't be on here arguing over this and we would also be without hundreds of great PC games.

What has Microsoft done? Just copy everything and everyone else, changing their OS very minimally every time, and are forcing thousands of XBox users to pay on a monthly basis for Live. Come on, MS, you make billions a month, how much harm could it be to make Live free?

Memories (0)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273789)

Bill Gates? Yeah, I remember him. Steve Jobs? Hard to forget.

Malcolm Gladwell? Who the hell is that?

This guy is full of shit (1)

phillymjs (234426) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273793)

The Gates Foundation exists solely to whitewash his reputation for the history books. Gates is nothing more than a latter-day robber-baron. The ruthless tactics he used to line his pockets and squelch any perceived threat to Windows set computing progress back decades.

It sickens me how everyone seems to conveniently forget that, and lines up to kiss his ass because he decided to take the ill-gotten gains amassed via twenty years of unscrupulous business practices and buy respectability for himself.

~Philly

Re:This guy is full of shit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273915)

You've made a lot of extraordinary claims. Now back it up with extraordinary facts.

Question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273797)

Who is this Steve Jobs guy again?

Re:Question (2)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273935)

You know how a pizza is flat and has round edges? He invented that.

Who ? (1)

mbone (558574) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273803)

I always get lost with these references to ancient history.

Actually. (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273839)

I see both being forgotten eventually.

Jobs won't let us forget him. (1)

zarmanto (884704) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273841)

I'm completely convinced that Gladwell is wrong -- but there is one factor which might theoretically play to Gladwell's advantage, in a small way. Bill Gates left us the legacy of Windows, and is currently trying desperately to redeem himself for that pain, through his philanthropic works. Steve Jobs left us with MacOS and iOS -- but in contrast to Gates, Jobs also left us with a company filled with people who are constantly trying to live up to Jobs' legacy. So here's the factor: If Jobs can ever be seen as "forgettable" fifty years from now, it will have nothing whatsoever to do with Gates; it'll most likely be attributable to Apple post-Jobs having successes which eclipse those of Apple with Jobs. Because this will prove that Apple can actually continue to succeed without Jobs.

So, in my opinion, the one factor which might genuinely make us forget him, is also the one factor which will cement his legacy in the annuls of history.

You InseNsitive clod? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273861)

Naturally (1)

Snaller (147050) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273887)

Jobs was just another greedy fuck selling snakeoil who didn't ascend in Maslows pyramid of needs, whilst Gates has, to the point what it is important for him to save the world.

History (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40273891)

History is a lie told my a fool to people that for the most part, need someone to explain things more complicated than car keys to them.

"History" insists that Lee De Forest was the father of radio, when Edwin Howard Armstrong had a much better claim on it. Newton alone invented calculus, except that Leibniz was in there somewhere, as I recall (we use his notations, too.) Copernicus 'invented' the heliocentric universe. Europeans invented math. America was empty when invaded genocidally by Christian explorers. Americans have always done nothing but good. Christians are ethical and good and Muslims swarthy and evil. "History" has a spotty track record.

The tech history I will remember is that Jobs started a ball rolling that changed the world, for better or worse. Were he still here, he still would be kicking it along a little faster, but anyone who lived through the era of NO microprocessors and NO operating systems will appreciate certain milestone events and people. Jobs was one. So was Gates. I'm in no hurry to discount or forget the contributions of either. But then again, I know who Edwin Howard Armstrong is and respect his contributions enough to make up for the billions who don't. Malcom G. on the other hand... he'll probably fade faster than the covers on his hardbacks in the bargain bin in a few years. Arguably, Jobs did more than he has or will.

Godwin? (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40273917)

I don't want to godwin this, but it isn't just nice people that are remembered in history.

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