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Ask Slashdot: Why Aren't You Running KDE?

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the what's-your-flavor? dept.

GNOME 818

First time accepted submitter mike_toscano writes "At least some of us have recently seen Linus' most recent comments on his experience with Gnome 3 — he didn't have many nice things to say about it and as you know, he's not the only one. On the other hand, there have been some great reviews and comparisons of KDE with the other options (like this one) lately. Sure, early releases of 4.x were painful but the desktop today is fully-functional and polished. So the question: To those who run *nix desktops and are frustrated by the latest Gnome variants, why aren't you running KDE? To clarify, I'm not asking which desktop is better. I'm really talking to the people who have already decided they don't like the new Gnome & Unity but aren't using KDE. If you don't like KDE or Gnome, why not?"

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Found happiness elsewhere (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283727)

You can’t completely break something for a long time and expect people to jump right back when you fix it. I, like many others, had to go elsewhere when kde3 became impractical to keep running and kde4 was completely broken. What I have now works great, and more importantly, kde4 doesn’t have any killer features that appeal to me that I don’t already have in my openbox/xfce4 setup.

All I really want is good multi-monitor handling (including separate panels for each monitor) and the expected standards for managing windows. KDE 3 provided that with minimal fuss KDE 4 initially didn’t. My openbox+xfce4 setup provides it with a little work and minus all the eye candy I disabled anyway.

People will gradually migrate back. I might give kde4 a try the next time I build a machine... but for now, I’m happy with my setup and have no reason to switch back.

Between Personal Life and Work (5, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283741)

Why Aren't You Running KDE?

Because Xfce (personal use) and no windowing or graphical interface at all (work servers) completely satisfies all my needs?

I use Xubuntu at home on two desktops and a netbook and have yet to encounter the inability to do anything while at the same time requiring very little of my time to maintain it. I'm sorry if this sounds like a plug for Xfce, it's not. I'm simply responding by asking a counter question: what exactly am I missing if I use these machines for web surfing, e-mail and lots of hobby development? I'm forced to maintain a Windows 7 x64 partition for Diablo III, netflix and some other crappy windows stuff I can't shake so maybe I'm unaware that with KDE we can now satisfy some of those things?

Can someone tell me what Linux Jesus means when he says:

Simply because my old F14 comes with ancient X versions that don't contain all the fixes to make intel 3D really work well. And yes, things really do work better on the graphical side.

Intel 3D? Does he have a 3D monitor? Are these more than just novelties now?

Re:Between Personal Life and Work (3, Insightful)

Tribaal_ch (1192815) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283769)

Intel 3d refers to intel graphic cards with accelerated 3d rendering (openGL etc...).

Re:Between Personal Life and Work (4, Interesting)

Rhaban (987410) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283987)

I use xfce on mint (lmde).

I tried several flavors of kde, I really like it, but it just isn't good enough. I had huge problems with Kubuntu (several years ago: kde 4.2, I think): no simple tool available to set up wifi connection, an update that broke my desktop entirely... I decided I'd try it again later.
Some months ago, I installed an opensuse with kde on my work laptop (a dell e6510). I had some performance issues and I didn't know where they came from: some database update scripts took almost 2 times as long as on my coworker's similar pc to complete, and sometimes the load would freeze the desktop for several seconds.
I did not think it was kde, but I tried and installed xfce. The performance problems disappeared instantly. And they came back if i chose kde as my desktop manager when turning my computer on.

More recently I decided to change distribution, and went for lmde with xfce. I don't think I'll try kde again.

and Fluxbox (2)

arisvega (1414195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284067)

Because I run fluxbox- KDE runs a load of crap in the background, which is one of the basic reasons I gave up Windows looooooooong ago.

On fluxbox (and openbox, and blackbox) everything has been customizable for years now (key+click combinations etc, window layouts) which makes it ideal for applications that demand lots of hotkeys. Okay, it might not be flashy and 3D accelerated (unless you really try to make it so) but who cares: the memory footprint of the whole window manager is negligible.

And if you miss your $favouriteKDEapp or $favouriteGNOMEapp, remember that the executable can be launched from a terminal window.

Re:and Fluxbox (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284193)

And if you miss your $favouriteKDEapp or $favouriteGNOMEapp, remember that the executable can be launched from a terminal window.

I'm finding this less and less true as KDE apps become more tied in with each other (kind of like a certain other much maligned OS). They all expect a bunch of services to be running in the background and properly configured. You almost have to setup a kde desktop minus the actual desktop just to run tools like dolphin. Gnome was always this way (I still remember when launching gnome's editor would kick off nautilis).

Because I run XFCE (4, Insightful)

Bananatree3 (872975) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283753)

Thank you, good day.

Re:Because I run XFCE (5, Insightful)

ElPedroGrande (1235420) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283829)

Exactly. XFCE or LXDE are both vastly superior to KDE. Plus, feet are yucky.

Re:Because I run XFCE (1)

ElPedroGrande (1235420) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283955)

But even excluding the whole feet thing, GNOME just feels bloated. So Basically, GNOME KDE LXDE XFCE

Re:Because I run XFCE (3, Funny)

Geeky (90998) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284221)

Hey! Some of us have a foot fetish (you insensitive clod)...

XFCE is... (1)

Lumpio- (986581) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283831)

...like Gnome except without the bloat of Gnome (or KDE). That's why I run it too.

Re:Because I run XFCE (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284019)

Why was this article even posted? "Why aren't you using KDE?" sounds like an advertisement. "You liked Windows Mohave, which is really Vista in disguise. So why aren't you using Vista?" - "Why are you still reading books when you can use Kindle instead?" - "Why didn't you buy an iPhone yet?" - "Have you played Atari today?"

Answer: I'm using Lubuntu which comes with the lightweight LXDE for low-RAM laptops.

Re:Because I run XFCE (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284217)

I've found XFCE to be full of annoyances. e.g. You can't disable the trash. You need to hit a special hotkey to permanently delete something. Similarly, you need to hit a special hotkey to copy from XFCE's terminal program. This would all be OK, if it were easily fixed with some configuration. But it's not.

Really, I just use Fluxbox and RXVT most of the time. EmelFM2 when I need a GUI file manager. What else do you really need your desktop to do?

fwiw (5, Interesting)

stoolpigeon (454276) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283757)

much further down in the thread Linus says, "And for all the people wasting everybodys time with "Why don't you use Unity/KDE/xfce/xyz" - I've tried them. They are even worse, and equally importantly they aren't the normal window manager. I'm really not that odd." - There is a lot more in the comment and if I could figure it out I'd link directly to it - but if there is a way to do it, I couldn't figure it out. Scrolling through this thread made me think there is room for lots of improvement in g+

As for me - I do run KDE and love it. I have for years and stuck with it even through the switch to 4, which was a touch frustrating at times but not nearly as horrible as so many made it out to be - in my opinion.

Re:fwiw (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284183)

I totally agree with that. I have been using Windows since 3.1 through all its incarnations, so I can say I know my way around. I switched to Linux in 2006. I tried Gnome and could not get my head around it, because I could not even figure out how to change the colour scheme. As we all know, everything has been stripped down from revision to revision. So I switched to KDE 3.x which was quite a revelation. I also had to go through this 4.0 fc*kup and currently happily run 4.8.3. Still a little bit quirky but way better than Unity and Gnome 3 :-)

Why am I not Running KDE? (5, Insightful)

carrier lost (222597) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283763)

Because I am Enlightened [enlightenment.org]

Re:Why am I not Running KDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283855)

ohh shiny...

Re:Why am I not Running KDE? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284195)

And I am Awesome [naquadah.org]

Reminds me of Windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283773)

Grossly reminds me of Windows...the one thing I want to stay away from.

gnome2 user (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283775)

Because gnome2 is still supported on Debian Squeeze.When its time to upgrade I'll probably move to kde or xfce.

I am (2)

present_arms (848116) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283777)

Running KDE and I personally have no issues with it :) does what i need when i need to and it isn't slow as most think it might be.

because.. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283779)

K stands for Krap.

I'm running KDE (2)

satuon (1822492) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283801)

Actually I'm running KDE for the last year, since I noticed that Alt+Tab works substantially faster and it generally feels faster than the new versions of Ubuntu with Unity/Gnome 3.

KDE Bloat gnome bloat xfce bloat (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283805)

I want less crap not more.

Because there's no KDE for Win7 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283811)

I work in the real world, and so I run Windows 7. There's no KDE for Windows 7.

If there were, I would try it.

Re:Because there's no KDE for Win7 (5, Informative)

Galactic Dominator (944134) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283937)

There's no KDE for Windows 7.

You mean like this:

http://windows.kde.org/ [kde.org]

Re:Because there's no KDE for Win7 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283947)

LIAR!

You sir are a stinky poo bum LIAR!

Go to the toilet, wipe up like a good little cookie. When you come back click this link http://windows.kde.org/

Re:Because there's no KDE for Win7 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284025)

We all work in the real world too. Linux is used on the desktop in real world jobs. The entire programming department at my current place uses Linux, both on the server and on the desktop.

I would... (1)

idontgno (624372) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283813)

but it keeps freezing the machine.

Not kidding. CentOS 5.8. I think it's the cmipci sound driver. I installed alsa-kmod, which allows me to use the audio subsystem in applications without freezing; I just need to figure out how to configure KDE to take advantage of this.

FVWM2 (1)

originalLackey (596264) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283821)

The newer releases of GNOME adn Unitity where the final pushes I need to dust off my old fvwm config.
And I must say, I couldn't be happier.

Stingy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283839)

Run LXDE/XFCE because I prefer to use as little resources for my displays as possible.

I am running KDE. (3, Interesting)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283849)

I use KDE 3.5.11 courtesy of the trinity project. I never liked gnome and I despise KDE 4.x.

LK

Well, that's easy... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283853)

When I looked at KDE 1.x it was immitating Windows. I decided that this project is going down the wrong path and never really looked at it again, and have no interest in doing so for so near future.

Running KDE 4.8 (4, Informative)

Thorfinn.au (1140205) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283863)

The early series 4 KDE were appalling, and thin includes upto 4.4.
4.8 is good, you should all come back to the light side.

Until they fuck it up (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284121)

Having seen the KDE people screw this up once already, many aren't interested in having it screwed up again in KDE 5.0 . KDE needs to make people understand that they admit they fucked up before and vow not to do it again.

Re:Until they fuck it up (4, Informative)

Jahava (946858) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284243)

Having seen the KDE people screw this up once already, many aren't interested in having it screwed up again in KDE 5.0 . KDE needs to make people understand that they admit they fucked up before and vow not to do it again.

To be fair, a good deal of that blame lies at the distributions' over-eager hands. The KDE team stated publicly and repeatedly that the initial KDE4.x line was basically a developer preview. They stated that they didn't expect KDE to be in the same realm of usability as KDE 3.5 until around version 4.5.

Nevertheless, Ubuntu, Fedora, etc. decided to be "bleeding-edge" and install the early 4.x developer preview KDE as the default desktop in their newer releases, severely harming KDE's reputation. While the KDE team could have handled the releases better ("beta" label, etc.), the distributions definitely should have known better.

I am (4, Interesting)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283867)

I was using kde 3.x - migrated to gnome. Hated unity. I tried mate, cinnamon, lxde, xfce and then thought I'd given kde 4.8 a try.

It's much improved from 4.0!

Re:I am (0)

Simon Brooke (45012) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284033)

Can I use the classic AOL meme and say 'me too'?

Mind you I adopted the original KDE pretty soon after it came out ('98 or '99) and stuck with it until 4.0, which basically wasn't finished/didn't work, much the position Gnome 3.0 is in today... Doing a major re-engineering on a significant component of the Open Source desktop stack is always going to be painful, but they do, from time to time, need to be done. At least with Open Source we can choose our window manager, unlike the Windows world who are just going to have to swallow Metro and pretend they like it.

Ask Slashdot: Why Aren't You Running KDE? (2)

schroedingers_hat (2449186) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283869)

Because I don't need the bloaty mess of KDE or Gnome?
Configuration? The gui tools seem to change every 5 weeks anyway, so I wind up learning which text files to edit eventually anyway.
Buttons and widgets? Tmux and pentadactyl status bars are enough visual output, for input I already have buttons...they're on my keyboard.
Menus? I have a command line, or dmenu, or just add keyboard shortcuts to dwm for common functions.
One gripe with dwm is that most browsers when combined with certain webpages (mostly flash, i'm looking at you, youtube) seem to fail to figure out how wide their tile is.

Because, who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283883)

I was really hoping we could stop arguing about desktop environments when the world moved to web-based applications and mobiles many years ago. Sure, I use a desktop to open my web browser, run Eclipse, or launch Steam, but once I'm living inside application I could really care less how I launched it.

MATE Fork (1)

rla3rd (596810) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283885)

Why bother learning something new? I just switched to the Gnome 2 MATE fork.

We Need the Newest Releases (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283887)

I am running KDE on Debian Sid and it's great, but many stable systems (Cent, RHEL, Debian) have older versions and the polish of KDE really stars to shine with 4.6. Backports for everyone!

Because GNOME is too stupid and KDE is too slow. (4, Interesting)

Uncle Warthog (311922) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283903)

I completely gave up on GNOME back in the 2.x range as I saw features get continually moved, removed, or just made harder to configure. I loved KDE3 and tolerated KDE4 between crashes (now, thankfully, gone in newer versions) until I realized that as KDE versions got newer and newer, they also got slower and slower on my, admittedly aging, hardware. I've since switched to XFCE and haven't looked back. Much.

Re:Because GNOME is too stupid and KDE is too slow (1)

Giftmacher (2621375) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284043)

Yeah I've noticed the KDE slow down too, I briefly switched from GNOME recently as I just couldn't deal with the GNOME 3 training wheels set up. Now I'm in a kind of desktop limbo, I'm warming to GNOME again for it's minimalist looks but slowly moving towards XFCE and LXDE as the more lightweight alternatives... Back to the topic in hand though, as stated above Linus most certainly isn't championing a switch from GNOME to another desktop.

It's a matter of workflow (-1, Troll)

hamvil (1186283) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283913)

KDE's workflow is outdated and most of all IS WRONG. I do not want to see every moment the list of active windows. I do not want a ugly and complex application launcher. In gnome 2 the first things I did after a fresh install was to remove the bottom bar, add a dock (e.g. docky) and enable the expose-like plug-in for compiz. That is the workflow that works for me, and gnome 3 is supporting exactly that, plus the default alt-tab and alt-` is absolutely wonderfull.

Re:It's a matter of workflow (1)

hamvil (1186283) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284001)

... oh and I forgot one thing: frames, why all those frames and borders and padding?

Look and feel of QT (1)

dejanc (1528235) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283921)

After Gnome 2, I switched to Mac, so running KDE is not (really) an option. But the main reason I never used KDE was that I couldn't get used to QT's look and feel. I know that's not a good argument against KDE, but I'm not arguing. I just never could get used to how it feels. Also, having Firefox not integrate as well as it does with GTK environments was an issues (again, just look and feel).

Maybe in future, after I forget how GTK feels like, I may give KDE a try. I hope I like it, because I really like the functionality of KDE.

because i use OS X (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283925)

i don't need some half-assed open source desktop

KDE is not what I want. (4, Informative)

gallondr00nk (868673) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283929)

For me, Linux or BSD is about performance. If I wanted an integrated desktop experience with bells and whistles, frankly I'd stick with Windows XP or maybe go for XFCE.

Personally, I use Openbox. It's fast as hell and exceptionally customisable. I've ran it on machines ranging from modernish laptops to a creaking old 233MHz Thinkpad 600 and I cannot fault it. For me there is nothing missing that cannot be added (i combine mine with LXpanel and PCManFM).

Openbox doesn't get in the way or chew up system resources, and IMO that is the whole point of a window manager. I'm glad KDE exists, but it simply doesn't interest me.

Unwilling to (re)implement --geometry (5, Interesting)

kmahan (80459) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283933)

KDE would be more usable for us developers if the KDELibs crew would (re)implement the basic --geometry command line feature. Removed in KDE 4, available everywhere else. It has been listed as a bug since the release of KDE 4.

https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=165355 [kde.org]

Please vote for this and maybe the KDE developers will take notice.

E17 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283943)

Faster, Lighter, Prettier.

That is all.

Meh... too tired to switch now (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40283961)

Former big KDE fan (since 1.0) but switched to GNOME after the KDE 4.0 release. Several comments. KDE fanboys have been saying KDE 4.x is now polished and usable for every point release since the initial 4.0. After believing them and trying each new version out for quite awhile before giving up, you'll have to excuse us for being sceptical.

I was personally very frustrated by the ego of the developers and the way they responded to the negative feedback to KDE 4.0. They basically just ignored it and said they are right. When a user has years submitting bug reports and commenting on the desktop to help make it better, it feels like a smack in the face to be ignored. Plus, it used to feel like KDE was evolving somewhere. What's the point of contributing to make something better when at any moment, things will just change arbitrarily?

After GNOME made the EXACT same mistake as KDE. I'm frustrated with them too. My loyalty has been broken to both GNOME and KDE. I'm still tired after learning GNOME. I don't have the energy to switch again and if I did, it would be to one of the up-and-coming desktops.

Because ROX (3, Interesting)

oGMo (379) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283963)

Because I've been using RiscOS on X [roscidus.com] for awhile and see no reason to change. It's not "gnome" (though it uses gtk). It's interactively very fast even on slow hardware. It's functionally very fast; apply all sorts of filters, selections, and commands to the current window, or bring up a shell in the window's cwd by typing "x". It's an augmentation of the terminal, not a UI for casual users. It's extremely screen-space efficient, since I can do everything and keep all the menubars and toolbars off, and the icons small. It offers a nice direct-manipulation-oriented interface (i.e., comprehensive DND).

Even if KDE offers all of this, it would have to offer quite a bit more in addition to make it worth switching.

Worst "start" menu ever (2, Insightful)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283971)

I used it for a short time. Couldn't get over how poorly designed the start menu is. All I really want is (1) the ability to start programs and (2) the ability to switch between said programs. KDE does (2) well, but (1) sucks. Maybe this has been fixed by now, but GNOME's ctrl+space+"fi"+enter is significantly faster than KDE's click+click+click+click+...

Re:Worst "start" menu ever (4, Informative)

cozziewozzie (344246) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284213)

What's wrong with Alt+F2+"fi"+enter?

It's been there for at least a decade, you know?

Re:Worst "start" menu ever (1)

Tanktalus (794810) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284229)

I've tied a key to the KDE menu. For my most-commonly-used apps, they're on the front page, so "My Favourites" (yeah, I have a MS keyboard) -> up/down arrow to get to the right place, enter. For others, MF+"ktor"+click. Admittedly, that last click is annoying. I've been meaning to open a bug report on it (I think it used to work with arrows/enter to select from the dynamic list). Either way, no, it's not click+click+click+click+... if you know what you're looking for, which presumably you do if Gnome's Ctrl+space+"fi"+enter is working for you.

Finally... (5, Funny)

Galactic Dominator (944134) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283975)

I had been waiting some time for a comment section completely devoid of any technical argument.

I left KDE for GNOME... (3, Insightful)

Wubby (56755) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283977)

because with KDE 4 they change the fundamental design philosophy of the project. I didn't want easy of use, I wanted control, which I why I originally left GNOME for KDE before that.

Now with GNOME making the same design choices, I'm left with MATE, which is just a fork of the the GNOME I want to use, but it's still lacking right now.

I understand that they want the interface to be easy for anyone to approach, but what about those of us who want to do more than just browse the web and share pictures of the grandkids?

I'm loosing all the features of the Linux Desktop that I left Windows for in the first place. *sigh

Tried KDE (1)

eljefe6a (2289776) | more than 2 years ago | (#40283983)

I tried KDE 4.7 for about 2 weeks. I ended up going to XFCE. Not because of bloat, etc, but because it did exactly what I wanted. I do miss some of the widgets and GUI goodness, but those don't merit a switch.

Two words: nepomuk and akonadi (5, Informative)

pgfault (796282) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284003)

We're a Linux shop with around 400 desktops and have been running KDE for a decade. KDE3 was rock solid. KDE4, not so much. The KDE4 direction of "let's index everything" with nepomuk and akonadi doesn't work so well when home directories are NFS mounted. In fact, it killed our fileserver. Further, why on earth would I want 400 instances of mysql_community_server running and creating a 128MB DB for each user in their home directory just to index their PIM?

In general KDE login times have been getting longer and longer, and the overall flakiness of KDE up to 4.6 have led us to dump KDE in favor of XFCE. Initial feedback from users has been very positive, and we'll be completing the transition this summer.

KDE4 may have some features that are fine for a standalone desktop at home, but it took a giant step backward from KDE3 in terms of usability in a networked environment at work.

Re:Two words: nepomuk and akonadi (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284197)

It's not just that nepomuk and akonadi are poorly implemented, I personally don't like the idea of a semantic desktop. Why index everything? In years of use I've never had the need. These things need to be optional. Without them I would try KDE and I am one of the guys who was abandoned by gnome (happy xfce user now).

I have tried to but it's too weird (5, Insightful)

Cthefuture (665326) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284011)

KDE is one of the few environments that actually works with my setup of four monitors in a dual twinview (xinerama) configuration. Unity and GNOME3 do not work at all with this setup, they render only on half the screens, the mouse doesn't work at all, and other problems.

Currently I have to run a bastardized mix of XFCE and OpenBox to get everything to work because the XFCE window manager doesn't work correctly either. MATE (GNOME2) desktop seems to work and I have been thinking of switching (back) to it but it seems kind of buggy. It will probably end up being what I use though.

But on topic, I would love to just use KDE because it works right out of the box without me having to tweak or worry about anything. BUT, it's just too weird and often has annoying bugs/crashes (sort of like Opera actually). It looks weird and doesn't work like I think. I can't really explain exactly what it is other than "weird". It feels confusing and hard to use. If I could pick one example application that showcases the weirdness of KDE it would be the Amarok app. Good grief that thing is bizarre. The UI is so funky and doesn't work anything like what I need. For me that app is a good reflection of KDE as a whole. Bizarre, ugly, and unintuitive UI. I can't get any work done in that.

Mouse pointer jumping around (1)

BELG (4429) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284013)

I have 3 monitors, and when I last tried it (4.8.3, or rather kubuntu 12.04), my mouse pointer started jumping around like an idiot.

I didn't spend all that much time trying to figure it out, and the only information I could dig up was trying to tell me my mouse was broken or that my X config was bad. Great, except it works just fine with both XFCE and GNOME.

It didn't let me get far enough to form an opinion other than "nope".

GTK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284015)

I always thought it had something to do with so many popular applications being based on GTK. KDE has improved it's "integration" of GTK apps quite a bit since.

Otherwise, I find KDE aesthetically displeasing. Some elements are too thin. There are too many bubbly brushed effects on things by default. The icons, especially for the animated cursor, are simply ugly. It really has an ugly retro linux thing going that I personal hate.

Still prefer Gnome 2, now Mate (3, Insightful)

caseih (160668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284017)

Now that Mate is available on a somewhat stable basis for Fedora 16 and 17 (external repo), I have no reason to change. Gnome 2 worked well for me, and I like the look and feel.

KDE still doesn't feel right to me somehow. Personal preference, obviously. And part of it might just be the way Fedora packages it. Oddly enough KDE apps look and feel great with the Gtk theme when run under the Mate desktop.

If I was stuck with Gnome 3, I'd give KDE a serious look, but since there are now good alternatives (XFCE, Mate, Cinnamon), I'll be trying them first.

There's options, that's why (1)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284023)

If you feel Gnome 3 is too much but you don't want to part with your GTK+ apps you might be willing to try XFCE [xfce.org] or Cinnamon [linuxmint.com] .

I have a love-hate relationship with Gnome 3 right now. There's some things about it that i love and others i loathe. Working with multiple windows, for example, is a pain in the ass. I might go back to XFCE soon, which in many ways is Gnome 2 without all the Gnome crud.

I'm not running KDE because... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284027)

Windows doesn't support it.

what a noob! (5, Funny)

czmax (939486) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284035)

I don't know who this "Linus" guy think he is. Just because his name looks kinda similar to "Linux" doesn't mean he has the right to be jerk. The community should flame him off the forums because he apparently doesn't understand the open source ethos.

If he was a real programmer he'd just dig into the code and fix these problems. This is why linux desktop hasn't taken off -- all these moochers who just want their computer to work without putting any effort into understanding the underlying system and not being willing to chip in and help the effort.

... because KDE is almost as bad as GNOME ? (1)

redelm (54142) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284039)

A bloated race to the fattest!

Personally, I use xfce or ice for a "heavyweight" WM. And often run without any, only launching xterm or rxvt in .xinit . Most of the app bloatware (firefox) has their own routines for resizing, etc.

Because I don't like Linux (2, Insightful)

The123king (2395060) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284049)

GNU/Linux is great, don't get me wrong. It's secure, highly customisable, fast and stable. It's found its niche's and that's important, but don't force me to use it on the desktop. Why? Because it doesn't work on the desktop. With all the choices of desktop environments, from Unity, to GNOME, to KDE, to XFCE, you end up with the horrible world of fragmentation. Things aren't consistent, and consistency is something you need in a desktop environment. There's no point giving me a .DEB compiled for Ubuntu if i'm running Fedora, as even if i do get it converted, it won't be tightly intergrated into my DE if it even runs at all.

And that's why i follow Haiku. It's fast, it's consistent and there isn't a billion distro's to worry about. Until all the GNU/Linux distro's can agree on one solid OS to focus on and cure the massive problem of fragmentation from one platform to another, i'll stick to Haiku.

fvwm (4, Informative)

hymie! (95907) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284061)

Because fvwm does exactly what I want it to and need it to.

Re:fvwm (4, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284203)

Same here. Since being exposed to the fvwm-pager more than 20 years ago on SunOS, I am not happy without at least 3x2 desktops and usually have 3x3 with edge scroll. I also use the auto-raiser, tuned exactly to my reflexes.

Why people go for eye-candy over functionality in a tool is beyond me.

kpanel and kmail (1)

davros74 (194914) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284063)

I upgraded to KDE-4.5 only when I upgraded my slackware distro to 13.37. This version is already quite dated, it's usable, but I still miss some kde-3.x features that still do not exist (that I am aware of) in KDE-4.

Sounds silly, but I really miss kpanel the most. It is the best virtual desktop manager I have used (from 3.5.x series), showing thumbnails of all applications (can recognize by sight), proper desktop backgrounds, and ability to move windows from desktop to desktop from inside the panel itself. KDE's (at least as of 4.5.5) panel app doesn't let me move windows, and it doesn't show image pixmaps of wallpapers or applications. Usually the text of a window doesn't fit, and it's quite unusable to be able to tell one window from another.

I also used to use Kmail heavily, but the new one seems so much more bloated, requiring SQL (is that akonadi?). Don't know why I need an SQL server running to read my email off an IMAP server (messages stored on the IMAP server, not "fetched" to the local KMAIL app).

I also don't quite get the Activities and Plasma stuff, would prefer to just have a plain virtual desktop like KDE-3.5.10.

I've thought about Trinity, but Slackware-13.37 isn't officially supported (despite being more than a year old)... maybe it would work, but I haven't had time to try yet. Probably makes more sense to try and upgrade slackware-13.37 from KDE-4.5.5 to a newer version.

I also must be one of those "older" folks who prefers the standard drop down cascaded menus. I don't need a "start" menu that isn't big enough to show me everything, and require scrolling a menu (what a stupid concept, thanks Windows7), or requires typing to find what I want. At least KDE can still be customized better than Windows7 can be.

I also prefer the older Konqueror file manager over Dolphin. Just from a user "experience", there seems to be more visual polish on KDE-4 but less functionality than KDE-3.5, in my opinion.

Is there a Subversion plugin for Konqueror or Dolphin yet (TortoiseSVN equivalent)? That's one thing that is sorely lacking from KDE-3.5.x series since SVN was only taking off about then.

I ran KDE for over a decade (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284069)

..and switched to LXDE. Simple reason, KDE started getting toooooo much garbage. The last straw was Akonadi [kde.org] . There was no way to completely disable it and it would randomly pop-up error messages even after tic'ing the checkbox to "disable" it.

I don't care much about what Desktop I use, I'm just glad there are alternatives so when the one I'm using starts to suck ass, I can easily find something else. You can't do that with Windows or Macintosh.

I'm running KDE too (1)

hugortega (721079) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284079)

And please, KDE is not a windows clone, if people say that clearly they are not using KDE since years. Of course, there are themes of community trying to mimic windows look, but that is another history, and part of the power of KDE.

KDE is a really good Desktop environment, with a lot of good things for power users... I mean, a *lot* of customizations options, which is not good for everybody, but IS a big difference for many others. But, at the end, the most important thing is that people feel comfortable with their own desktop environment, whatever the name is. Be free is, also, let others be free.

Because I hate using a mouse (5, Insightful)

Snodgrass (446409) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284085)

I don't like the requirement of moving my hand off the keyboard and over to the mouse just so I can navigate.

It's i3 for me.

Plus, the start menu paradigm is retarded, and the last time I bothered trying KDE they were just trying their hardest to be a shinier, blingier Windows.

The Fonts (1)

niftydude (1745144) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284087)

Both KDE and Gnome3 have various annoyances and missing features which are so bad that I've stopped trying to convert people to linux.

But Gnome3 is slightly less ugly, and I find the default fonts far more readable, so that is what I use for my computers.

I am (1)

TheGoodNamesWereGone (1844118) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284089)

I AM running KDE, you insens....

Egads...Gnome 1.4.6 all over again... (1)

YankDownUnder (872956) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284097)

There are things you just "get used to" - actions, window actions, menu actions, whatever. For me, I've seen just the basic "ergonomics" broken again and again - along with the "artistic" bits and bobs - I've grown to use my linux machines a very particular way (via the GUI) and have my druthers to stick to certain visual perspectives along with "usability" perspectives. Gnome3/Unity truly killed that (what - every thing is now classed as a netbook or mobile device?) for me. KDE, since the break from 3.5, killed me there. XFce has always been there, but still, lacking in a way or so...Enlightenment has been awesome, but buggy, not complete. C'mon - I just want to DO, not to "keep trying". MS Windows lost out years ago with Win95 - coming from an OS/2 and *nix background. Now I'm on OSX - I *keep* trying to "live the dream" but it's too much effort. Things should have evolved to be "easy" and they're only evolving to what some corporate mind THINKS is ergonomic. Get real. Gnome2 was very useable and was very much of the "I just work" mentality...took me a while to love it, but I do, and hate to see it die (it at least gives me the perception that my desktop computer is a desktop computer with two monitors and all the power and applications at hand). I have things to do, and if the window manager doesn't allow me to do them, well, it's ditched and I'll just do it myself. I have to thank Ubuntu and Unity for my recent switch to OSX...done and not going back...

...because it was once broken... (1)

djsmiley (752149) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284107)

So I'm a gentooer (dons flame suit).

I tried kde and gnome once, along time ago. Both broke.

I installed some random wm's trying each out in turn and settled on xfce4.

I've got used to the interface, customized it to suit me, and can migrate those customizations easily elsewhere. Why _would_ I switch?

DE = Browser Border (1)

tjansen (2845) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284113)

Should I really care which system is drawing the borders around my Firefox or Chrome windows? Only when I need special software, like Photoshop or Gimp or a Java IDE or a game, the OS or desktop environment still matters. Unfortunately KDE apps are not in most people's 'special software' lists.

Less is More! Anyone with me? (2)

sticks_us (150624) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284115)

I'm somewhat of a X desktop transient, switching between KDE, Gnome, and Xfce (variety is the spice of life, and all that rot).

I spend most of my days in Emacs or a term window, and I frankly don't use 90% of the features these desktop managers provide. After a few months with one of the "big three," I always come back to GNUstep. It's totally minimal, and you can do EVERYTHING without touching a mouse. It's as unobtrusive as possible.

Check the wikipedia here [wikipedia.org] , or dig the GNUstep website. [gnustep.org]

Another option in the "totally minimal" world is xmonad, there's a lot to like here as well. Wikipedia: xmonad [wikipedia.org] ,

Or, try the Xmonad website [xmonad.org]

Radeon framerate issues (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284119)

Because, on a Radeon 6570 running via the Xorg Radeon driver, KDE appears to suffer framerate issues when the desktop effects are enabled. GNOME 3, however, doesn't exhibit this problem with its accelerated window manager.

KDE4 was aesthetically bad last time I checked. (2)

micheas (231635) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284125)

To clarify: When you create things in 3d you have a shadow, or no shadow and a reflection to create the appearance of three dimensions.

Every version of KDE I have used has some icons with the sun in one position (say 9am) and the window chrome having the sun in another position (say 3pm). It looks like a bad photoshop job where you can just tell that everything was cut and paste with no concern for the overall look and feel.

Maybe the folks over at Linux Mint will polish up KDE so it doesn't look wrong. But until then, GNOME or a consistent flat desktop is what I'll use.

Simply because... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284127)

Neither KDE or Gnome are designed with users like me in mind.

For example - I don't see the point in GStreamer or whatever the KDE alternative is when I'm always going to download the file and fire up mplayer manually from a shell.

Developer attitudes (1)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284129)

early releases of 4.x were painful

They were, but the real problems were that this was an obvious, foreseeable consequence of the release management, and that the developers steadfastly refused to acknowledge any problem other than users expecting too much.

I'd been using KDE since the 1.0 betas, and that's why I jumped ship.

KDE is my fav. "Big Desktop", yet it has 1 flaw (1)

Qbertino (265505) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284131)

I consider a well configured KDE the best total-desktop-solution by far - and I'm a regular Mac OS X user btw. Truth is, a well configured KDE runs circles around OS X in terms of usability, consistency and featureset.

And it's right there where we have the one and only problem with KDE: Its default key shortcut configuration is a sad and sorry Windows rippoff with so many pointless, bad and potentially harmful settings that it turns many computer experts off. I know this is default and changing the keymappings in KDE is easy, but it is a downside.

Then agian, Ubuntu takes so much of the pain out of Gnome and Nautilus that I consider it good enough and couldn't be bothered messing with KDE. But should I eventually move away from OS X again - which I require for mulitmedia work and Flash development - I will probably go back to KDE, even if I have to spend quality time getting its setup right. ... Although I definitely would miss the multitouch trackpad, that's for sure. ... But Apple just needs to carry on with their ongoing lock-in strategy and I'm back to using the mouse on Linux again - no problem. Come next HW purchase I will look *very* carefully if the benefits of Apple still outweighs the downsides.

Bottom line: No Video to do? No profesional printwork to do? No application specific OS requirements? Use Linux with KDE, that's my general recommendation to anyone who requires a solid feature-rich working desktop.

My 2 cents.

Kubuntu desktop unusably slow for me (1)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284141)

I have a Dell M6500 laptop with an i7 chip and a (2010-era) workstation-class AMD m7740 GPU. I'm running Linux Mint 13, with AMD's fglrx driver installed.

All of the other desktop environments I've tried have perfectly decent responsiveness. But for some reason, the Kubuntu desktop is *way* slower. Enough so that I chose to forgo it's other benefits.

Why would I run KDE? (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284143)

I have a very old, carefully tuned to my needs fvwm2 set-up. There is no need or reason to go to this newfangled, unstable, cluttered and ugly KDE-stuff (or to Gnome for that matter). "New" is not a positive quality for desktop environments. "Efficient" and "clean" are. Example: I use the fvwm2 pager with 3x3 desktops and edge-scroll. Very efficient, fast, and gives me lots of desktop space. A consequence is that I do not understand multi-monitor set-ups. Edge-scrolling to a different desktop is faster than turning my head to a different monitor and far more ergonomically sound. There still seems to be no comparable KDE/Gnome replacement, which eliminates them immediately from consideration for me.

I Stick To The Distro Default (1)

DaysSinceTheDoor (805570) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284145)

What I have found through the years is that it is always best to stick with whatever distro you are using's default even if you are not a super fan of it. For instance when I install OpenSuSE on a system I install KDE. When I install Ubuntu on a system I go with the Gnome variant. There always seems to be bugs, issues, or lack of polish on the alternative windowing managers when trying to interface with the distro specific controls. I attribute this to the fact that fewer people tested the alternative windowing manager during the distro build process and there are fewer people using the alternative windowing manager out in the wild.

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284159)

Because at work i'm forced to use windows.

At home i choose to use windows because thats what the games run on.

Oh i could run (some) games on nix. but having tried that... i'd rather play games instead of play with my os to make a game work almost right.

I no longer trust them (2)

jmv (93421) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284171)

Both gnome and KDE have by now proven that if you use them, you *will* get screwed. Because as soon as you'll feel comfortable using any of them, they'll just stop supporting it and try getting you to switch to the new version that's awful and not what you wanted. They'll tell you "it's an just an early release, it'll get better". And indeed, it'll get better... and once it's good enough, they'll throw it all away again. I've learned my lesson and I'm now using XFCE, which I'm hoping will not go the way of gnome/KDE. I still need a few gnome config utils to get XFCE to do what I want, but I'm happy for now.

Kde too big for legacy laptops. (1)

quixote9 (999874) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284175)

I use Kde 4.8 and like it a lot. But I have a core i7 with 4GB system memory, etc. etc. The other user in the house switches between two identical legacy laptops which are so old I don't even remember the specs. They'll run Ubu-pangolin with Mate or Mint with Mate, but Kde runs just long enough to think, "Wow. Nice. Shiny!" (which it really is!) and then crashes. (Yes, desktop effects are turned off, and so on.) Kde needs a lightweight streamlined layer.

Pretty damn simple (5, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284189)

When I open a movie from a network drive, it copies the entire file first as it is incapable of simply passing a network url to the movie application. Something that every other desktop manager out there can handle.

It is this kind of "wtf" that is rampant throughout KDE. To me, it is the kiddy desktop, where people spend ages on getting some cool feature working but the basics are falling apart. In theory, it should be highly capable but in reality, it is so fragile and its defaults so inane, that to get it working just takes to long.

That is part of the reason Ubuntu and Gnome 2 were so popular. They finally just worked. I am using Linux to be productive, KDE does not help me be productive.

Oh and one final thing KDE team, learn that EVERY single app you build has a far superior solo version out there. I don't need a complete office suite with my desktop thank you very much.

I can't describe it exactly (3, Interesting)

Nimey (114278) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284207)

There's just something about how KDE's UI is laid out that rubs me the wrong way.

Long-time Gnome 2 user here, probably switching to MATE. Don't care for Xfce and LXDE is too basic for my taste, as are most of the standalone WMs. Window Maker is fugly.

My two favorite computer UIs today are Gnome 2.3x + Compiz and Windows 7 + Cygwin. They mostly just work, are good about staying out of my way, and have nice UI flourishes like live preview and Aero Snap.

Because KDE 4 was terrible (1)

JoeDuncan (874519) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284209)

I used to be a huge fan of KDE, and used it religiously on every computer.

It used to be that if you wanted configurability and customizability, you went with KDE. If you wanted a slick looking, unified, intuitive UI, you went with Gnome.

When they rolled out KDE 4, I found that a lot of the custom config changes that I always applied to KDE to get it just the way I wanted were suddenly no longer available or just didn't work. Additionally, KDE 4 made my system basically slow to a crawl and none of the hardware accelerated eye candy worked properly anymore (I simply could not get both stable video playback and desktop effects to work together).

So I switched to Gnome. I have since learned how to use gconf-editor to implement most of the custom UI config I like. It's a bit harder to do than it was in KDE 3.X, but what choice do I have?

Are the current versions of KDE any good? I haven't even test driven it since KDE 4 because that experience was so bad...

Gnome - KDE - Gnome - xfce - ? (1)

dr_leviathan (653441) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284223)

I've used KDE in the past and will probably try it again. I'll also try Gnome/Unity/MATE/Cinnamon or whatever is available once the dust settles. At the moment I'm happily using xfce.

The reason I change window managers (WM) is that there are a few particular config settings that I need and whenever the WM I'm currently using suffers a major overhaul I typically find one or another of these features have been removed from the GUI config menu (perhaps because the feature is not yet reimplemented and the dev team temporarily removes them from config? dunno). So I go looking for a different WM that does what I want. Later, once things have settled down I re-try the old WM's to see if they'll work for me.

im running lxde and it works fine... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40284225)

After having issues with Ubuntu on my aging inspiron e1505, I decided to apt-get the lxde setup. Seemed to work better for me and the layout is much nicer.

So after fixing a gateway M-6333 and installing a patriot Pyro ssd, I installed lubuntu, and man I'm happy. From powered down to desktop takes around 6-7 seconds compared to the 40 seconds on my dell with regular hard drive (which has a faster CPU) or even lubuntu on the same dell which takes about 25...

Either way lubuntu has been much faster and just works for me

Linus is not a good reference. (1)

rexbinary (902403) | more than 2 years ago | (#40284247)

Linus is not a good reference. He left KDE for Gnome when KDE went from 3.x to 4.x. Now he's ranting about Gnome since they went from 2.x to 3.x. The guy simply doesn't like change. Next he'll move to XFCE, and then rant when they move from 4.x to 5.x.
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