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518 comments

Unit cannot be resold as received? (4, Interesting)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296779)

In their reply they said "Unit cannot be accepted or resold as received." Did she make it clear in her initial call that she was returning it for a hardware defect, and not just a general "I'm unsatisfied with it" return? I'm pretty sure that ANY hardware defective computer, with original OS or not, cannot be "resold as received." It sounds like the RMA may have mistakenly been issued as if it were a general return when it should have listed it as a hardware defect return.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (4, Funny)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296837)

was it really a hardware defect or maybe the linux drivers don't work as well?

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296895)

was it really a hardware defect or maybe the linux drivers don't work as well?

If you read the article, you'd know the answer!

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (0, Troll)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296989)

and glitchy drivers can cause these things. first thing the user should have done was reinstall the OS to the way it came out of the box to see if the issues go away

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297025)

Um, yeah - you didn't RTFA either. It explicitly states she booted off a Windows install on a thumbdrive to insure it wasn't a driver issue.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (5, Informative)

Venotar (233363) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297049)

Really, glitchy drivers? Way to RTFA: "On the third day of use a loud coil squeal/chirp became apparent, becoming louder when it was running on battery power. Within hours the wireless chipset failed and refused to connect, the display began glitching with horizontal lines appearing through it, and it became unresponsive. I tested it with a Windows live USB thumb drive"

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297281)

Because a Windows USB thumb drive will have all the necessary drivers for it to function properly.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (0)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297377)

why not test it with a stock install?

i've read supposed idiot power users do all kinds of idiotic things over the years thinking they are geniuses. one guy on an MSI forum RMA'd every single part from his home build because the power supply wasn't working properly or something like that

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297079)

and glitchy drivers can cause these things. first thing the user should have done was reinstall the OS to the way it came out of the box to see if the issues go away

They tested with Windows and the description of the problem sounds like a hardware issue. Show me evidence of a glitchy driver causing a loud squealing noise, the wireless chipset to stop working, and horizontal lines on the display. Linux is ghetto, but it isn't that ghetto.

From the article
 

On the third day of use a loud coil squeal/chirp became apparent, becoming louder when it was running on battery power. Within hours the wireless chipset failed and refused to connect, the display began glitching with horizontal lines appearing through it, and it became unresponsive. I tested it with a Windows live USB thumb drive, just to ensure there was no problem with the OS before RMAing it.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (5, Funny)

pixelpusher220 (529617) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297155)

Show me evidence of a glitchy driver causing a loud squealing noise

Put your hand on the table while I get my 3-Wood out of my bag. And if you've seen my golf handicap, yes my driver is 'glitchy' ;-)

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (5, Informative)

danomac (1032160) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297131)

Yes, some drivers can cause issues. My laptop came with Vista, which I despise, and so I installed linux on it. Everything mostly worked properly with the exception of the hard-wired lan port and the occasional hang. During my own troubleshooting, I discovered one problem would happen in both OSs and one would not. It turns out a linux driver was causing issues with the temperature probe or something similar and was overheating. So I can understand why manufacturers void the warranty when software can cause the machine to overheat and do nasty things. The LAN port was actually defective. I fixed the temperature issue by getting a bleeding edge copy of lm_sensors.

In my case, I tarballed my linux install to an external HDD and restored an image I took before I installed linux and sent it back for servicing (which was repaired and sent back to me.)

In the article it says the BIOS tests confirmed an error. Who knows if it was a rogue driver that caused it?

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (2)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297201)

If the machine is overheating, the BIOS should shut it down before any damage is done.

The "temperature issue" sounds like something to fix with speeding up the CPU fans or scaling back the CPU speed. A bleeding edge copy of temperature monitors doesn't really seem like the right solution.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (3, Interesting)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297241)

AGAIN if you had read the article, you would know. The user tried running the laptop with Windows and the wireless modem still did not work.

I wonder if you bought a laptop with Vista on it and then upgraded to Win7 would that also be covered by "original manufacturer's operating system has been removed." Newegg would probably deny it too.

Fuckers.'
Burn their building to the ground.
(I hate megacorps. Can you tell?)

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (1)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297435)

Not sure about the current stuff, but I remember way back in the early days of Linux, if you set up your X config incorrectly you could actually fry video cards by feeding them values they couldn't happen.

It is conceivable, though how likely I have no idea, that the Linux drivers caused the damage. Unfortunately, they might hide behind that and say "you can't prove you didn't break it".

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (2, Insightful)

BenSchuarmer (922752) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297055)

Even if there weren't a hardware defect, shouldn't they wipe the disk and reinstall the OS from scratch (to protect the second buyer from the possibility that the first buyer got some malware).

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (5, Interesting)

hawguy (1600213) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297105)

Even if there weren't a hardware defect, shouldn't they wipe the disk and reinstall the OS from scratch (to protect the second buyer from the possibility that the first buyer got some malware).

Sounds like a good way to do identity theft - buy a laptop, install your favorite malware (infecting the Windows recovery partition to make it permanent just in case they do a recovery), then return it and let Bestbuy resell it to an unsuspecting customer. Use that user's stolen credit card/bank account details to repeat the process with another batch of laptops.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (1, Insightful)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297179)

I agree, they should wipe the disk. However, what if in the course of installing Linux, she removed the hidden Windows recovery partition (something I did way back when I installed Linux on my Thinkpad R31)? If Lenovo don't ship recovery disks with their computers (no idea, I havent ever bought a Lenovo) then NewEgg might have a point in that the system she is returning is not similar to the system she received.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (0)

DaveV1.0 (203135) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297395)

And, they would do so by using the recovery partition that Northrup seems to have erased.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (0)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297125)

Maybe for some reason MS decided to force them to void the warranty for uninstalling windows.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (4, Insightful)

frovingslosh (582462) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297343)

Of course not. And it doesn't represent Newegg well that they would try to resell any returned computer rather than returning it to the manufacturer for "refurbishment".

Couldn't you say the same for any computer with installed software, even just some Windows applications? Should I expect to buy a computer from Newegg (even one marked as "open box") and find that it had some software that I object to installed on it? Or maybe kiddy porn or spyware or other junk?

Of course, some might say that the original purchaser should have restored the software to Windows. But that involves making the recovery discs, since computers no longer ship with an actual copy of Windows on optical media. And, at least on the computers that I have made these reinstall discs on, you can only make the restore discs once. So just making the restore discs would put the computer in a condition that should make it unresellable, since the new owner would not be able to make restoration discs!

The real problem is that Windows is bundled with computers, and that resellers like Newegg accept this and don't do anything to get the manufacturers to give buyers options without the Microsoft tax or to get them physical recovery media. I guess they could try to blame the buyer for trying to install software on his purchase, but I doubt that they can claim that they never expect any buyers to install software on their purchases. Maybe there was indeed some driver issue that brought about the return, but resellers have helped create the environment where this can happen, and they need to share the responsibility.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (0, Troll)

DaveV1.0 (203135) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297375)

If Northrup failed to make backup/restore disks for the installed operating system and returned the laptop with Linux on it, the unit cannot be fixed and resold as received because it no longer has the installed operating system and will cost Newegg money to replace. Also, the operating system can be considered an accessory to the hardware.

Really, this is her own fault for not making restore disks before installing Linux on the machine.

Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297407)

How is this a "troll"?

We've become too comfortable. (-1, Flamebait)

suso (153703) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296787)

I think maybe we've all become a little too comfortable with Linux (or any other open source software) being generally accepted and for the most part works as expected. We've forgotten the fact that essentially using Linux does void your warranty in most cases. Distributions like Linux Mint do a good job of hiding all the warnings that you used to see when trying to get your drivers working, but they are still there. Those who would configure X back in the 90s probably remember the warnings and stories about how the wrong settings could physically damage your monitor. From a manufacturer's point of view, I can't say I blame them for having this stance. Many open source drivers are built by reverse engineering the hardware, not by working together with the manufacturer like on commercial operating systems such as Windows. There are definately mistakes that could be made by the driver developers that would physically ruin the hardware or run it outside its normal specifications.

Everyone using Linux, FreeBSD, ReactOS or Haiku or any other open source/community built OS where the drivers are written through reverse engineering needs to understand this because sometimes it does come back to bite.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296847)

Bullocks. Hardware damaged by bad software might be a valid reason for a voided warranty, but they should actually bother to check for that.

I think manufacturers should give up on offering warranties, they're clearly not interested in sticking to them.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296851)

A killer poke? [wikipedia.org] Really?
If a driver bug can physically ruin hardware, the hardware is made wrong.

Linux DOES NOT void your warranty. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296975)

Though there have been at least two such attempts that failed to do so.

And only VERY OLD hardware that Windows crashes could likewise kill had problems with synch frequencies out of bounds. Please go back to your 486SX machine and worry on that.

So please stop spreading FUD.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (5, Insightful)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296985)

We've forgotten the fact that essentially using Linux does void your warranty in most cases.

Which is not true, quite frankly.

Distributions like Linux Mint do a good job of hiding all the warnings that you used to see when trying to get your drivers working, but they are still there.

Then logically just reinstalling Windows would void your warranty. I suspect they wouldn't have voided the return if it was running Windows.

From a manufacturer's point of view, I can't say I blame them for having this stance.

Letting manufacturers dictate end user actions by threatening their hardware warranty is the nasty, nasty direction the computing world is taking. Just accepting it is probably the worst of all possible courses of action.

Everyone using Linux, FreeBSD, ReactOS or Haiku or any other open source/community built OS where the drivers are written through reverse engineering needs to understand this because sometimes it does come back to bite.

"If you use non-Windows platforms, you are lesser and will get screwed over. Accept it." That said, I don't know how many drivers are actually -reverse engineered- these days other than Nouveau.

Sorry if this comes off as rather snarky, but your argument basically falls into the growing anti-Linux, anti-anything-not-Windows bucket.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (-1, Troll)

suso (153703) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297267)

Obviously I'm right about the comfort level thing due to people's reactions to my comment. People can't admit to themselves that they are risking their money by using non-aproved software with hardware they buy. It sucks sometimes, I know, but its reality. I've been a die hard Linux user and advocate for 15 years now and am not spreading FUD, I'm just reminding people of what they've gotten themselves into because some seem to have forgotten or where never warned about it. Don't delude yourself into thinking that hardware that you buy will let you use it without using the manufacturer's approved drivers without voiding warranty. I'll avoid using an obvious car analogy here.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296993)

You are a fucking idiot. Please do not reproduce.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297011)

Obviously someone forgot to tell your parents.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (2)

mr1911 (1942298) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297145)

Obviously Mr. and Mrs. Coward didn't learn the first time, although naming you both Anonymous was a stroke of genius.

Be nice to your sibling.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297037)

Did they provide a list of "authorized warranty compliant software"?

Did they indicate that using "unapproved" software would void the warranty?
Is such a condition even legal in that jurisdiction?

From my reading it seems the answers are no, no and n/a.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (1)

ikedasquid (1177957) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297039)

I could possibly understand poorly written firmware (or some other "embedded software") damaging the hardware. If something at the driver level is capable of damaging the hardware, you need to fire your EE (and all reviewers and quality folks that signed off on the design). I don't remember any OS install updating device firmware.

Which leaves me thinking - is the HW in modern PCs that haphazard or is newegg (and others) trying to conserve a profit margin? I hope it's the latter.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (5, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297059)

If I understand correctly, the Magnum Moss Warranty Act [cornell.edu] prohibits vendors from tying warranty coverage to branded components unless they can demonstrate that the failure was due to the third party component.

No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumerâ(TM)s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the Commission ifâ"
(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and
(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest.
The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (1)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297069)

There was a lot of concern over damaged monitors and such in the '90s, but not a lot of damaged monitors (but not zero damaged monitors). That was a hardware flaw and was fixed, it can't happen anymore. If the driver can actually wreck the hardware it's because the hardware has a design flaw.

If the manufacturer would like to paper over the flaw, it could work with the Linux community on the driver.

Re:We've become too comfortable. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297215)

We've forgotten the fact that essentially using Linux does void your warranty in most cases.

This is just plain untrue. Got some examples to support your claim that this is indeed true in most cases? Probably not, at least outside of sub-Saharan Africa, so let me explain how warranties work:

Limited hardware warranties are put in place so manufacturers/sellers can meet their legal obligations (and be competitive). No number of elaborate clauses allow a company to step away from its legal obligations. Mainstream and well known companies tend to exceed the minimum requirements of the law. It's a better customer experience Installing Linux can be used as a basis for voiding non-legally required support - such as software support and extended support contracts. It cannot be used to void the hardware warranty, but can be used to refuse a repair if the use of the software can reasonably be attributed as a cause for the hardware failure. Support monkies and shop gimps may say talk about voiding the warranty. Just ask them to have that in writing - this won't happen. Ask them to show you where in the terms of their limited warranty it explains that installing Linux voids the hardware warranty they are legally obliged to provide. They won't have anything in there, except perhaps a vague reference to unintended use of the product. With this they have a pretty fucking difficult argument unless they clearly sell the computer for use only with x operating system.

Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (5, Insightful)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296821)

Unsurprisingly, even Newegg can't afford super competent folks for their RMA service. So let me help anyone out who things that Newegg left this guy high and dry with some tips. Whenever I buy something, it seems like there's no way to get it without Windows. This means that I am paying for something I don't want. Sucks, right? Well, there's something you can do to monetize this if you want. Sometimes they have stickers with Windows keys on them but if they don't there's a way around this. Boot into windows and download some crappy tool that tells you what your Windows key is (I'm not going to plug any of these tools, most come with adware but who cares, you're about to blow that partition away). Go to My Computer and right click for properties and find where it tells you what version this is. Example: Windows 7 64 bit Professional. Write all that information down or e-mail it to yourself.

Now, you're free to wipe the whole machine and install whatever the hell you want. If something goes wrong and you need to RMA, you're in luck. You just torrent the ISO for that particular windows and burn it (or use Netbootin in the case of no optical drive) and reinstall it with your key and ship it back. Although this sounds like a lot of work, it actually can be quite useful when a relative or friend needs a copy of Windows. You make them a disc and transfer that heavily subsidized key to them. Sure, it might be illegal in the eyes of someone but it's worked for me and I keep it down to one use per key that I was extorted into buying. Personally, this sort of second sale doesn't feel morally wrong to me but if it does to you, you can always just hold on to your info and consider it an "asset" in your software library.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (5, Insightful)

Z00L00K (682162) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296947)

Or the first thing you do when you plan to install linux - replace the hard disk with a fresh one. Then put the original one on a shelf until you either run out of warranty or return the computer.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (5, Interesting)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297107)

its often less effort to open the machine, remove its drive, put drive on shelf (before first ever boot) and put your own laptop drive in (maybe even an ssd) and do whatever you need to.

I have not stepped on a shipped os, probably ever. drives are cheap and I'll get a 2nd one to use for my own stuff. its exactly like this situation that you keep the original o/s and for me, the original drive sits unused.

time is what I don't have lots of and doing an image backup then verify then restore later on is 3 steps I'd rather not do. yank the drive, do your stuff on your and if hardware craps out, shove the old drive back in and return it for fixing/warr work.

plus, you NEVER have any of you files on that drive. no sector scan will EVER have your stuff on it. ever. that's nice, too!

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (3, Funny)

INeededALogin (771371) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297185)

Or the first thing you do when you plan to install linux - replace the hard disk with a fresh one. Then put the original one on a shelf until you either run out of warranty or return the computer.

This approach undermines the entire principle of Linux. The thing to do is exactly what this girl did... fight it.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297195)

This actually voids the warranty on many Sasmung laptops/netbooks, since the drive isn't behind a panel.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297235)

Chances are that you want to put a bigger/faster one in there anyways.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (1)

Stan92057 (737634) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297305)

Or build your own or buy one with Linux already installed. The same issue has been gone over too many times already. If a Linux geek isn't informed about this then they are really not Linux geeks. I build my own so i can do what i want.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (2)

hazem (472289) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297405)

If you don't want to use a whole hard drive, you can also use something like Clonezilla to make a complete backup of the original drive onto an external or network drive.

Then you can also almost as easily restore it back to its original state if you have to send it back.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297007)

Or you could just grab a copy of CloneZilla or a comparable utility and image the hard drive. If you ever need to send the system back, just restore the image and Bob's your uncle.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297047)

If you read the article, you'd know that this was a GIRL Linux user! Not a "guy"

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297167)

seriously who the fuck cares

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297087)

Don't take this the wrong way (unless you want to cause well whatever) but you've been drinking the kool-aid.

Sometimes they have stickers with Windows keys on them but if they don't there's a way around this. Boot into windows and download some crappy tool that tells you what your Windows key is .... Go to My Computer and right click for properties and find where it tells you what version this is. Example: Windows 7 64 bit Professional. Write all that information down or e-mail it to yourself.

Why should I need a third party tool to get my OS to tell me my licensing information?

If something goes wrong and you need to RMA, you're in luck. You just torrent the ISO for that particular windows and burn it (or use Netbootin in the case of no optical drive) and reinstall it with your key and ship it back.

Or just use a linux SystemRescueCD [sysresccd.org] to make a compressed backup image.

Although this sounds like a lot of work, it actually can be quite useful when a relative or friend needs a copy of Windows. You make them a disc and transfer that heavily subsidized key to them. Sure, it might be illegal in the eyes of someone but it's worked for me and I keep it down to one use per key that I was extorted into buying.

And that's the money shot. You have a license to that software. You can do as you please with it. The law has been pretty clear on the re-resale of software licenses. You're clear. You bought it. You may or may not have used it. And now you can sell it or give it away (once).

Personally, this sort of second sale doesn't feel morally wrong to me but if it does to you, you can always just hold on to your info and consider it an "asset" in your software library.

As I mentioned, someone put something in your kool-aid. Now that being said, I know I violate MS's licensing terms. And it used to be to their benefit. However, it's now been years since I installed windows for someone. I encourage my friends and family to use Linux or (if they really want commercial polish or some other BS, OSX).

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297115)

Guess I got lucky then! I got a recovery Windows 7 disk along with my Dell XPS laptop when I complained about noisy hard disk. I can restore to factory settings whenever I want!

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (3, Insightful)

Nkwe (604125) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297117)

Or you could just build a set of recovery disks like the manufacturer tells you to (you know, RTM...) If you have a problem, then you can use the recovery disks to restore to factory settings and then return the thing.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (3, Informative)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297151)

Whenever I buy something, it seems like there's no way to get it without Windows. This means that I am paying for something I don't want.

The Windows EULA requires the vendor to refund the cost of the license if you decline the agreement.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (1)

Githaron (2462596) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297223)

Wouldn't it be easier to just create an image using Clonezila [clonezilla.org] ?

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297253)

Unfortunately, that is often a problem. The Windows ISO torrents are often Retail or Enterprise, not OEM and won't take the OEM key that you wrote down.

Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (2)

tixxit (1107127) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297285)

I was under the impression that the product key you get with your computer only works with special OEM-specific versions of Windows. Things may have changed since I last used Windows though (XP).

Answer: GPL4 (4, Funny)

null etc. (524767) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296833)

Time for RMS to add a "NewEggization" clause to GPL4.

Re:Answer: GPL4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297237)

What clause would actually help here? Since NewEgg didn't distribute Linux on the machine?

The second one. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296861)

Rather obviously, really.

Where are my discs? (4, Insightful)

RenHoek (101570) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296875)

If I were to buy a laptop with Windows (heavens forbid), then I'd expect installation media to go with it. I can understand NewEgg not fielding support questions on every flavor of Unix, but my grandmother should be able to restore the laptop to mint (pun intended) condition by inserting a DVD.

If NewEgg fails to deliver that, then there's the problem, not a user installing something else.

Re:Where are my discs? (4, Informative)

Microlith (54737) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296999)

Virtually no vendors these days include a restore CD. Instead they include a junkware riddled "restore partition." Microsoft stopped letting them include clean OEM install CDs years ago.

Re:Where are my discs? (2)

tixxit (1107127) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297345)

I've never understood this decision. What's the most obvious reason that I'd need to reinstall Windows? Because the HD got borked and I had to get a new one. Oops.

Re:Where are my discs? (2)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297389)

Virtually no vendors these days include a restore CD. Instead they include a junkware riddled "restore partition." Microsoft stopped letting them include clean OEM install CDs years ago.

Just one more bar in the jail called Windows Hell[tm]. Well, it will all start to become a fading memory when BYOD fills first the corporate world with Android and Apple devices, then the domestic world. The writing on the wall says that Microsoft's desktop business is due to wither to smaller than their console business over the next 5 years. And without the desktop monopoly to create the tie in Microsoft's server business will start to wither too. After a while Microsoft will be a console vendor of a stature somewhat less than Nintendo, and Steve Ballmer will still be the CEO.

Re:Where are my discs? (1)

hendridm (302246) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297021)

Do any PCs come with installation media anymore? As far as I've seen, you have to burn it yourself from a partition.

Re:Where are my discs? (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297279)

Do any PCs come with installation media anymore? As far as I've seen, you have to burn it yourself from a partition.

Hell, Apple doesn't anymore, and they were one of the last to do so (even putting it on a thumbdrive - the pre-Lion OS X MacBook Airs had a restore thumbdrive).

The only thing Apple does now is internet restore - connect your Mac to an internet connection and it'll download and restore for you, kinda inconvenient.

Re:Where are my discs? (3, Insightful)

Shoten (260439) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297045)

If I were to buy a laptop with Windows (heavens forbid), then I'd expect installation media to go with it. I can understand NewEgg not fielding support questions on every flavor of Unix, but my grandmother should be able to restore the laptop to mint (pun intended) condition by inserting a DVD.

If NewEgg fails to deliver that, then there's the problem, not a user installing something else.

You haven't bought any laptops in a while, have you? I haven't seen installation media coming with hardware in years. At best, you got a disc that would blow away the entire drive and re-image it...but these days there isn't enough room on a disc to do that, so laptops come with "recovery" partitions. Also, there are the inevitable manufacturer-specific utilities that come with the machine, and you usually need specific drivers in the course of the installation, so just including a Windows 7 install disc doesn't cut the mustard either.

Re:Where are my discs? (1)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297433)

You haven't bought any laptops in a while, have you?

That seems to be a growing trend.

Re:Where are my discs? (1)

nomadic (141991) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297065)

Newegg is not a manufacturer, they're a retailer. They shouldn't be responsible for restoration media, particularly because that would likely require them to actually buy a license for it.

Re:Where are my discs? (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297085)

Lenovos come with special utilities to create "installation" disks, do backups and other very useful stuff (as well as a ton of trashware).

However, they generally run Ubuntu considerably better than they run Windows. I have four Lenovos, and other emmbers of the family ahve two. The (windows) wireless drivers are very flakey and you cant scroll with two fingers.

Re:Where are my discs? (1)

ISoldat53 (977164) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297139)

Ars had a good story about de-crapping your WIN install (http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/06/blowing-away-bloatware-a-guide-to-reinstalling-windows-on-a-new-pc/). It includes a url to download images of WIN7 and instructions on how to activate it.

Lazy or Incompetent (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296879)

The only two reasons why they won't RMA it.

NewEgg (2)

OverlordQ (264228) | more than 2 years ago | (#40296935)

NewEgg long ago stopped being the go-to site for tech stuff and went full on commercial.

Re:NewEgg (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296987)

So what is the go-to site for tech stuff?

Re:NewEgg (1)

Jahf (21968) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297111)

+1 to the question of who is your go-to place now? I don't have mod points and the question is downrated to 0. 100% legit concern. I have no other place that equates to what I use NewEgg for except maybe Amazon and that's not exactly less commercial. If there is another good single source for new tech then we'd like to know. Otherwise it seems we're back to either NewEgg+Amazon or using Google Shopper (and similar methods) and buying from individual stores. That is fine for single purchases, but not good at all when building systems or buying many items at once.

Re:NewEgg (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297143)

Best Buy obviously. DUH!!!

Re:NewEgg (2)

alen (225700) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297219)

if you want a good laptop, but apple

it's ^nix and you can do almost everything to fool around like in linux

Re:NewEgg (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297413)

hahahahahahahahaha!
Like I could afford that. (I can't afford a Lexus or Acura either.)

Re:NewEgg (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297367)

Sorry, but newegg still has some of the best prices around, and outside of one case of stupidity, I think they are still the place to go when system building and upgrading. Some poking around turns up better prices some times, but not to often and not with the (most of the time) hassle free RMA.

Not buying at newegg anymore. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40296995)

good thing I have a fry's near me plus they pricematch any internet store. I don't think software in computers should affect the warranty that is what they were meant for.

Thank you. (1, Troll)

loconet (415875) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297003)

Thank you, now I know to never buy absolutely anything from this company and never recommend it to anyone, as a matter of fact warning people about buying anything from them would be the responsible thing to do.

Re:Thank you. (4, Insightful)

nomadic (141991) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297093)

I have been buying from newegg for the past 12 years and in all that time I have never, ever had a problem with them. A single story on slashdot is not going to change that.

Re:Thank you. (4, Informative)

spicate (667270) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297095)

Out of their millions of customers, one had a bad experience. You could find the same with any company. I've returned numerous products to NewEgg without a problem, and they typically have excellent prices and top-quality service. This may be a sign of things to come, but it's a little bit of an overreaction to write them off so quickly.

Re:Thank you. (1)

Nkwe (604125) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297213)

Thank you, now I know to never buy absolutely anything from this company and never recommend it to anyone, as a matter of fact warning people about buying anything from them would be the responsible thing to do.

Personally, I continue to shop with them. They have a good selection, reasonable prices, and they ship quickly. Returns have never been a problem for me. In the original posters case, if he had restored the machine to factory settings (returned the product in the state it was shipped), he would have had no problems. Most (all?) machines shipping with Windows ship with a recovery partition that you can boot into to restore the machine to the way you got it. If you want to blow away the recovery partition, there is a documented procedure to generate your own recovery disks, which can usually be done by clicking on "yes I want to create my recovery disks", when you first boot the machine.

this is based on well-researched (0)

nimbius (983462) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297009)

evidence in other fields as well...for example:
replacing the lightbulb in your refridgerator causes until catastrohpic damage to everything from the compressor motor to the frozen peas.
replacing the carpet in your living room will in fact cause your entire house untold amounts of damage to everything from the foundation to the chapstick wedged between the cushions of the couch
universal remote controls, while seemingly a good idea, can cause the television to stop working and the viewers to become incontinent parapalegics
replacing the gasoline in a new car with gasoline of a different brand, will cause the car to explode.

I had issues too (5, Informative)

SoupGuru (723634) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297041)

I bought a refurb laptop from Newegg a couple of months ago and received it with an obvious screen defect. The CSR was very nice and helpful and got me an RMA and a UPS label and all that lickety split, no hassle. I sent it in and got an email update a few days later that there was nothing wrong and they were sending it back. So I called in again and this CSR was very helpful too and got me the refund with very little hassle again.

I don't know what's going on in their laptop repair department.... a manager that doesn't care?

Any time I've had to interact with a Newegg CSR, this time and others, things have been splendid and I've never had an issue getting a problem resolved.

this is like changing the radio voids engine warra (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297057)

this is like changing the radio voids engine warranty

What credit cards are for (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297073)

This is probably just a garden-variety fuckup.

This is why you only buy high-dollar value items on a credit card. Call the card issuer and tell them the merchant refused to accept the product.

if you install linux... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297089)

and don't know how to maintain a pc then you shouldn't be using linux.

that said i use os x now because i don't have time for peonic bullshit like "pc maintainence".

Re:if you install linux... (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297399)

Linux Mint is very user friendly. I'd put it on par with Windows 7. I've been dual booting it with XP or Windows 7 on all of my machines for the past 5 years and have had fewer "maintenance" issues than with Windows. If you want a Linux desktop that "just works", Mint is probably one of the top choices. The few times I've had to support OS X, it was an absolute nightmare. When trying to install Office 2011, it kept running into some kind of circular dependency issue. I'll take Linux Mint over OS X any day for a product that just works.

Now go back to 1996.

Just mail back an empty envelope for $3 (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297109)

(2) Wait 30 days, then file a credit card dispute saying "I returned this broken item, and newegg accepted it (Delivery Confirmation Number: 279279490242), but they have failed to refund the money.

(3) Done. These stores sign a contract with a credit card company & it states they will accept returns of broken items. It's the credit company's form of a warranty. (If stores don't like it, then they can refuse to sign the contract.)

And before some fool says this is "stealing" or whatever..... you're right! It is stealing. Newegg stole from a citizen by selling JUNK and not honoring the warranty. IMHO they should have their license of incorporation revoked by the government. But a refund on the broken item is good too. Consumer protection law sides with the customer not the jackassmegacorp.

It's perfectly reasonable (0)

MikeRT (947531) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297135)

Newegg is a retailer, not an OEM. You cannot do any sort of substantial alteration to it and expect them to take it back. This isn't like she bought it straight from Lenovo and they're saying they won't do warranty work on it. She's expecting a full refund after she removed the original OS which is a major selling point to most Thinkpad buyers.

Re:It's perfectly reasonable (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297205)

She's expecting a full refund because the hardware is faulty.

Do you think that Newegg were going to put it in a box and sell it on to another customer? Most likely they'll ship it back to Lenovo and they'll have to fix it or scrap it.

That said, I thought everyone know that you reinstall Windows before returning a defective PC.

Re:It's perfectly reasonable (2)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297339)

> You cannot do any sort of substantial alteration to it and expect them to take it back

So that means that I can't install "proprietary app of your choice" or "proprietary game of your choice" then?

It's a PC. It's built to be modified.

One of the first things I would do with a stock WinPC short of replacing the OS would be to install all of those little utilities that allow me to tweak those things that are supposed to be able to destroy they hardware if it's running Linux. I like to be able to see and directly control things like fan speed and CPU temperature and CPU speed.

Re:It's perfectly reasonable (2)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297347)

You cannot do any sort of substantial alteration to it and expect them to take it back.

Changing the configuration of bits on the hard drive is not a "substantial alteration" to it, unless you're suggesting that the warranty should be voided the minute she runs the "First Time Setup" and puts her name into the thing.

Whether or not the OS is a "major selling point" is as irrelevant to whether or not hardware is defective as the OS itself is.

Article is Misleading (4, Insightful)

Pollux (102520) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297169)

While I'm not saying that NewEgg's failing to provide the customer service they've been known for, the following does need to be made clear: Installing Linux in no way voids the manufacturer's warranty. If you RTFA, you'll clearly see in the NewEgg letter the following sentence:

"If you are still unsatisfied with this product or experience further issues, we recommend contacting the manufacturer directly for support."

Clearly the hardware failed. Clearly the owner can have the laptop repaired / replaced by contacting Lenovo. NewEgg's just not willing to facilitate the process.

Seems fairly accurate (0)

uberjack (1311219) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297249)

Given the current state of GNOME, seems about right. As someone who can't continue using Mint 10 (because it's no longer supported), nor upgrade (because GNOME 3 sucks, Cinnamon is nowhere near ready, and Mate is ... problematic), I'm starting to heavily lean toward abandoning Linux for something like Mac OS X. At least until GNOME gets its shit together.

Plus, look at warranty terms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40297255)

If the warranty terms themselves are not illegal according to consumer protection laws, they are clearly stated before purchase, and it's the purchaser's fault for agreeing to warranty terms that they don't like.

NewEgg likes Linux fine (2)

bhlowe (1803290) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297325)

This isn't because NewEgg doesn't like Linux.. Its because merchants don't like returns. Each return costs money--from credit card charges, to inspecting and shipping it back to the factory, and tracking the return through the system. I'm guessing they will take it back if you complain a little (or a lot, in the case of slashdot).

With any low-cost reseller, you trade low prices for some types of restrictions. If you want a merchant who will take back anything without restriction (such as Nordstroms) you need to spend more for the privilege. There are thousands of small businesses that would give you unlimited support and take your system back--but they charge a more.

Its not like they are sticking you with a dead product--they are just making you go through the standard factory service to get it repaired.

How did it get this far? (1)

XiaoMing (1574363) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297329)

Looks like the due-diligence for this special circumstance (a customer service trained to handle basic situations making the wrong judgement call) consisted of:

I spoke with a support agent, as well as a manager who couldn't comprehend the difference between an obvious hardware failure that could be found running the BIOS provided diagnostics, and the Linux installation.

The logical next step? Well Norm here manages to get it on some moronic newsblog article, that is comprised of: one screenshot of a generic rejection letter, a sentence of what comprised the followup, as well as a snippet of their expansive return policy [newegg.com] , ending in a retarded red-herring speculation.

For a customer that supposedly

used Newegg for years and spent tens of thousands on tech gear with them, so I'm really bummed out by this situation

I'm more bummed by his inability to understand how customer support is supposed to work.

Anyone who's ever dealt with the wrong-colored blinking lights on a modem knows that just one level above the first guy get on the phones isn't enough. Escalate the issue one tier higher up the chain of command, point to the purchase history, and ask them to get a real tech working there (not someone handling tech-support flowcharts) to verify, and I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.

But instead the whiny brat gives Newegg (which offers one of the better customer support experiences out there IMO) probably much more losses in bad press for what looks like a shit effort to communicate on his own end.

Magic RMA tool. (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297401)

This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood.
Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact:

A piezo gas grill igniter with a bit of wire taped to the ground clip makes a high voltage/LOW AMPERAGE circuit killer which leaves _no visible burn marks_. I've used one of these shoved into a spark plug boot as a small engine spark plug tester for several years.

Link has good pics, but ignore the "taser" nonsense:

http://www.instructables.com/id/grill-ignitor-mini-taser/ [instructables.com]

It's a waste to argue with people when you can submit a situation which they can deal with simply. They expect customers who don't know anything, but being POLITE works a treat. Act mystified as to why the magic box doesn't work and the hard disk shows No Operating System.

"Hurf, derf, I dunno why it don't power on. I can has new one?" and you'll be the EASY customer who didn't CHALLENGE anyone!

Windows user content? (1)

Dunge (922521) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297417)

What's so hard about doing a factory restore? Windows or Linux, it should be done anyway by the manufacturer upon reception not to let personal user files on the computer.

Just a misunderstanding (1)

Kohath (38547) | more than 2 years ago | (#40297425)

This is obviously just a misunderstanding. Once Newegg understands the hardware is genuinely defective (assuming it actually is), they'll take the machine back.

So what's with the pretense that this is some sort of policy? Are you guys really that desperate to proclaim your victim status?

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