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Intel Dismisses 'x86 Tax', Sees No Future For ARM

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the end-of-the-road dept.

Intel 406

MrSeb writes "In an interview with ExtremeTech, Mike Bell — Intel's new mobile chief, previously of Apple and Palm — has completely dismissed the decades-old theory that x86 is less power efficient than ARM. 'There is nothing in the instruction set that is more or less energy efficient than any other instruction set,' Bell says. 'I see no data that supports the claims that ARM is more efficient.' The interview also covers Intel's inherent tech advantage over ARM and the foundries ('There are very few companies on Earth who have the capabilities we've talked about, and going forward I don't think anyone will be able to match us' Bell says), the age-old argument that Intel can't compete on price, and whether Apple will eventually move its iOS products from ARM to x86, just like it moved its Macs from Power to x86 in 2005."

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406 comments

I am a gigantic bootynude! (-1, Offtopic)

AssRapingJones (2662563) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331119)

Around a year ago, I was mindlessly surfing the internet (as I often do) when I came across an enigmatic web page. The page, which looked like a warning from my web browser, informed me that I had a virus installed on my computer and that to fix it, I should install a strange anti-virus program that I'd never heard of (which I found peculiar considering the fact that I already had anti-virus software installed on my computer). Despite having reservations about installing it, I did so anyway (since it appeared to be a legitimate warning).

I cannot even fathom what I was thinking at that time. Soon after attempting to install the so-called anti-virus software, my desktop background image changed into a large red warning sign, warnings about malware began making appearances all over the screen, and a strange program I'd never seen before began nagging me to buy a program to remove the viruses. What should have been obvious previously then became clear to me: that software was a virus. Frustrated by my own stupidity, I began tossing objects around the room and cursing at no one in particular.

After I calmed down, I reluctantly took my computer to a local PC repair shop and steeled myself for the incoming fee. When I entered, I noticed that there were four men working there, and all of them seemed incredibly nice (the shop itself was clean and stylish, too). After I described the situation to them, they gave me a big smile (as if they'd seen and heard it all before), accepted the job, and told me that the computer would be working like new again in a few days. At the time, I was confident that their words held a great degree of truth to them.

The very next day, while I was using a local library's computer and browsing the internet, I came across a website dedicated to a certain piece of software. It claimed that it could fix up my PC and make it run like new again. I knew, right then, merely from viewing a single page on the website, that it was telling the truth. I cursed myself for not discovering this excellent piece of software before I had taken my PC to the PC repair shop. "It would've saved me money. Oh, well. I'm sure they'll get the job done just fine. I can always use this software in the future to conserve money." Those were my honest thoughts at the time.

Two days later, my phone rang after I returned home from work. I immediately was able to identify the number: it was the PC repair shop's phone number. Once I answered, something strange occurred; the one on the other end of the line spoke, in a small, tormented voice, "Return. Return. Return. Return. Return." No matter what I said to him, he would not stop repeating that one word. Unsettled by this odd occurrence, I traveled to the PC repair shop to find out exactly what happened.

Upon arriving inside the building, I looked upon the shop, which was a shadow of its former self, in shock. There were countless wires all over the floor, smashed computer parts scattered in every direction I looked, fallen shelves on the ground, desks flipped over on the ground, and, to make matters even worse, there was blood splattered all over the wall. Being the reasonable, upstanding, college-educated citizen that I was, I immediately concluded that the current state of the shop was due to none other than an employee's stress from work. I looked around a bit more, spotted three bodies sitting against the wall, and in the middle of the room, I spotted my computer. "Ah. There it is." Directly next to it was the shop's owner, sitting on the ground in the fetal position.

When I questioned him, he kept repeating a single thing again and again: "Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped!" I could not get him to tell me what was wrong, but after a bit of pondering, I quickly figured out precisely what happened: they were unable to fix my computer like they had promised. Disgusted by their failure, I turned to the shop's owner (who I now noticed had a gun to his head), and spat in his general direction. I then turned my back to him as if I was attempting to say that nothing behind me was worth my attention, and said to him, "Pathetic. Absolutely, positively pathetic. I asked you to do a single thing for me, and yet you failed even at that. Were I you, I'd be disgusted by myself, and I'd probably even take my own life. Such a worthless existence isn't even worthy of receiving my gaze!"

After saying that, I left the shop with my computer as if absolutely nothing had occurred there. And, indeed, there was nothing in that shop that was worthy of my attention. Still understandably disgusted by their inability to fulfill the promise, I said to myself, "I'll have to take this into my own hands." After getting into my car to drive home, I heard a gun shot from inside the repair shop. Being that it originated from the worthless owner of that shop, I promptly decided to ignore it.

Once I returned home, I, filled to the brim with confidence, immediately installed the software that I'd found a few days ago: MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . The results were exactly what I expected, and yet, I was still absolutely in awe of MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] wonderful performance. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] removed every last virus from my computer in the span of a few seconds. I simply couldn't believe it; MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] accomplished in moments what "professionals" had failed to accomplish after days of work!

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed!

If you're having computer troubles, I highly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . Don't rely on worthless "professionals" to fix up your PC! Use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] if you want your PC to be overclocking, if you want your gigabits to be zippin' and zoomin', and if you want your PC to be virus-free.

Even if you aren't having any visible problems with your PC, I still wholeheartedly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . You could still be infected by a virus that isn't directly visible to you, and MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will fix that right up. What do you have to lose? In addition to fixing any problems, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will, of course, speed up all of your gigabits until every component on your PC is overclocking like new!

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Re:I am a gigantic bootynude! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331683)

Spam or no, this made me think. I mean seriously guys, this was on TV. TEE FARKING VEE! You can't just put anything you want on tv.

It might be pew pew along the lines of magazine! (-1, Offtopic)

JonesFuckAssFucker (2662567) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331129)

Nearly four months ago, I noticed that my internet connection was very sluggish. Eventually getting fed up with it, I began to seek out software that would speed up the gigabits in my router. After an hour of searching, I found what at first appeared to be a very promising piece of software. Not only did it claim it would speed up my internet connection, but that it would overclock my power supply, speed up my gigabits, and remove any viruses from my computer! "This is a fantastic opportunity that I simply can't pass up," I thought. I immediately downloaded the software and began the installation, all the while laughing like a small child. I was highly anticipating a future where the speed of my internet connection would leave everyone else's in the dust.

I was horribly, horribly naive. Immediately upon the completion of the software's installation, various messages popped up on my screen about how I needed to buy software to remove a virus that I wasn't aware I had from a software company I'd never once heard of. The strange software also blocked me from doing anything except buying the software it was advertising. Being that I was a computer whiz (I had taken a computer essentials class in high school that taught me how to use Microsoft Office, and was quite adept at accessing my Facebook account), I was immediately able to conclude that the software I'd downloaded was, in fact, a virus, and that it was slowing down my gigabits at an exponential rate. "I can't let this insanity proceed any further," I thought.

As I was often called a computer genius, I was confident at the time that I could get rid of the virus with my own two hands. I tried numerous things: restarting the computer, pressing random keys on the keyboard, throwing the mouse across the room, and even flipping an orange switch on the back of the tower and turning the computer back on. My efforts were all in vain; the virus persisted, and my gigabits were running slower than ever! "This cannot be! What is this!? I've never once seen such a vicious virus in my entire life!" I was dumbfounded that I, a computer genius, was unable to remove the virus using the methods I described. Upon coming to terms with my failure, I decided to take my computer to a PC repair shop for repair.

I drove to a nearby computer repair shop and entered the building with my computer in hand. The inside of the building was quite large, neat, and organized, and the employees all seemed very kind and knowledgeable. They laughed upon hearing my embarrassing story, and told me that they saw this kind of thing on a daily basis. They then accepted the job, and told me that in the worst case, it'd be fixed in three days from now. I left with a smile, and felt confident in my decision to leave the computer repairs to the experts.

A week later, they still hadn't called back. Visibly angry, I tried calling them countless times, but not a single time did they answer the phone. Their negligence and irresponsibility infuriated me, and sent me into a state of insanity that caused me to punch a gigantic hole in the wall. Being that I would require my computer for work soon, I decided to head over to the computer repair shop to find out exactly what the problem was.

Upon entering the building, I was shocked by the state of its interior; it looked as if a tornado had tore through the entire building! Countless broken computers were scattered all about the floor, desks were flipped over, the walls had holes in them, there was a puddle of blood on the floor, and worst of all, I saw that my computer was sitting in the middle of the room laying on its side! Absolutely unforgivable! I soon noticed one of the employees sitting behind one of the tipped over desks (the one that had previously had the cash register on top of it); he was shaking uncontrollably and sobbing. Despite being furious about my computer being tipped over, seeing him in that state still managed to make me less unforgiving. I decided to ask him what happened.

A few moments passed where the entire room was silent and nothing was said. Eventually, he pointed at my computer and said to me, "The virus... it cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped!" Realizing that he was trying to tell me that they were unable to repair my computer (the task I'd given them), I flew into a blind fury and beat him senseless. Not caring about what would happen to him any longer, I collected my computer, ignored the bodies of the two other employees that had committed suicide, and left the building. After a few moments of pondering about what to do and clearing my head, I theorized that their failure to repair my computer probably simply meant that they were unqualified to do the job, and decided to take my computer to another computer repair shop.

I repeated that same process about four times before finally giving up. Each time I took it to a PC repair shop, the result was the same: all the employees either went completely insane, or they committed suicide. Not a single person was able to even do so much as damage the virus. I was able to talk some sense into one of the employees that had gone mad and got them to tell me how they were attempting to fix the problem. They told me that they tried everything from reinstalling the operating system to installing another operating system and trying to get rid of the virus on the other one, but absolutely all of it was to no avail. Having seen numerous attempts by professionals to remove the virus end in failure, I managed to delude myself into believing that my first failure was simply a fluke and that I was the only one on the planet qualified to fix the computer. With renewed vigor, I once again took up the frighteningly dangerous task of defeating the evil, nightmarish virus once and for all with my own two hands.

In my attempts to fix the problem, I'd even resorted to buying another computer. However, the virus used its WiFi capabilities to hack into the gigabits of my new computer and infect it. Following each failed attempt, I grew more and more depressed. I had already beaten my wife and children five times in order to relieve some of my stress, but even that (which had become my only pleasure after failing to remove the virus the first time), did nothing for me any longer. That's right: my last remaining pleasure in life had stopped being able to improve my mood, and I had not a single thing left that I cared about. I sank into a bottomless ocean of depression, barricaded myself in my room, and cried myself to sleep for days on end. Overcome with insanity, vengefulness, and despair, there is not a single doubt that if this had continued for much longer, I would have committed suicide.

One day, it suddenly happened: while I was right in the middle of habitually crying myself to sleep in the middle of the day, I heard a thunderous roar outside, followed by the sound of a large number of people screaming. When I peered outside my window to find out what all the commotion was about, the scene before me closely resembled that of a God descending from the heavens themselves! I gazed in awe at the godlike figure that was descending from the heavens, and so did the dozens of individuals that had gathered in my backyard. For a few moments, everyone was speechless. Then, they started shouting predictions about what they thought the figure was. "Is it a bird!?" "Is it a plane!?" But, despite not ever having seen it before, I knew just how inaccurate their predictions were, and began to speak the name of the heroic figure.

However, my sentence was cut off when, like a superhero coming to save the unfortunate victim from the evil villain, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] flew into my house and began the eradication of the virus. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was able to completely eliminate in minutes the exact same virus that over ten PC repair professionals were unable to remove after weeks of strenuous attempts! Wow! Such a thing! I simply couldn't believe that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was so miraculously efficient that it was able to destroy the virus in less than 500 milliseconds! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally, completely, and utterly saved me from a lifetime of despair!

My wife's response? "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My husband's computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my husband's system, and increased his speed! I highly, highly recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] !"

After witnessing just how wonderful MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is, I insist that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] when you need to fix all the gigabits on your computer! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will completely eradicate any viruses on your computer, speed up your internet connection, overclock your gigabits and speed, and give you some peace of mind! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is simply outstanding!

But even if you're not having any visible problems with your computer, it's highly likely that you're still in a situation where MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] could help you. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will get rid of any viruses or wireless interfaces that are hidden deep within your computer's bootloader. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will also speed up your computer to such a degree that it'll be even faster than when you first bought it! You must try MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] for yourself so that you can be overclocking your speed with the rest of us!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

First (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331141)

Like a boss

I know the future of every ass. (-1, Offtopic)

AssFuckinJohnson (2662569) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331145)

About eight months ago, I was searching around the internet to find out why my computer was running so slowly (it normally ran quite fast, but had gradually gotten slower over time). After a few minutes, I found a piece of software claiming that it could speed up my PC and make it run like new again. Being that I was dangerously ignorant about technology in general (even more so than I am now), I downloaded the software and began the installation. Mere moments after doing so, my desktop background image was changed and warnings that appeared to originate from Windows appeared all over the screen telling me to buy strange software from an unknown company in order to remove a virus it claimed I had.

I may have been ignorant about technology, but I wasn't that naive. I immediately concluded that the software I'd downloaded was, in fact, a virus. In my rage, I broke numerous objects, punched a hole in the wall, and cursed the world at the top of my lungs. I eventually calmed down, cleared my head, and realized that the only remedy for this problem was a carefully thought out plan. After a few moments of pondering about how to handle this situation, I decided that since I barely knew how to properly handle a computer, I should turn it over to the professionals and let them fix the issue.

Soon after making the decision, I drove to a local computer repair shop and entered the building with my computer in hand. They greeted me with a smile and stayed attentive the entire time that I was explaining the problem to them. They laughed as if they'd heard it all before, told me that I'm not the only one who has trouble operating computers, and then gave me a date for when the computer would be fixed. Not only had they told me that the computer would be completely repaired in at most two days, but the price for their services was surprisingly low, and to top it all off, they even gave me advice for how to avoid viruses in the future! I left the building feeling confident in my decision to seek professional help and satisfied knowing that such kind-hearted people were the ones doing the job.

The very next day, I received a phone call from the computer repair shop whilst I was at a local library researching computer viruses. I had stumbled upon a piece of software that appeared to be very promising, and I was about to do more research on it, but seeing as how I required my computer as soon as possible, I decided to put the matter on hold. Upon answering the phone and cheerfully greeting the person on the other end, I was greeted with a high-pitched shriek. Startled, I asked what was wrong. A few moments passed where nothing was said, and suddenly, the person on the other end said to me, in a low voice oozing with paranoia, "Come pick up your computer." They hung up immediately after saying that, and I couldn't help but notice that they sounded as if they were on the verge of tears. I briefly wondered if it was due to stress from work, and then drove to the computer repair shop to acquire my computer.

I was positively dismayed upon entering the building. The inside of the computer repair shop looked nothing like the image from my memories. There were broken computer parts scattered throughout the room, ceiling tiles all over the floor, blood splattered in every direction I looked, and even a human toe on the ground. After processing this disturbing information, I began panicking and frantically looking around for my computer. I spotted an employee covered in blood sitting up against the wall, and noticed that his wrists had been slashed open. Thinking quickly, I ran up to him, grabbed him by the collar of his shirt, shook him around, and began screaming, "Where is it!? Where is my computer!?" After a moment of silence, he passed away, completely shattering my expectations. Such a thing! "What a meaningless individual," I thought.

Enraged, I tore the building up even further than it already had been in my desperate search for my computer. Eventually I discovered a door leading to an area that was normally only accessible to employees. I entered without hesitation and was met with a long, skinny hallway that a single person would have trouble moving about freely in. I proceeded down the dark hallway and bumped into the body of an employee hanging from a rope tied to something on the ceiling. I screamed, "Not only do you people have the gall to allow my computer to be endangered, but even in death you intend to block my path!?" After finally managing to push aside the worthless obstacle, I traveled down the hallway and came to a small black door. I entered without a moment's notice, and in the middle of the dark and dreary room, I spotted my computer; it was completely unharmed. With a sigh of relief, I picked it up, left the building, and drove home as if nothing of importance had occurred there.

Upon returning home and hooking up the computer (whilst wearing a cheerful expression the entire time), I, to my horror, discovered that the computer hadn't been repaired. There was nothing in the world that could have contained my fiery anger at that point. I broke almost every single one of my possessions, smashed all the windows on my house, physically abused my family, and then drove back to the computer repair shop to defile the dead lumps of meat that had failed to carry out the task I had given them. After realizing that I shouldn't be meaninglessly wasting my time with such worthless pieces of trash, I remembered the piece of software that I'd discovered earlier. With renewed confidence, I blissfully visited the local library, downloaded the software, and took it home to install on my computer.

I knew. I knew, even before installing it, that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would be my salvation. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would come through with flying colors where no one else could. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would completely, totally, and utterly eradicate the virus in the most merciless, efficient way possible. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was not a piece of software that could fail to meet my exceedingly high expectations. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would not fail me like all the other imbeciles had. At that point, it could be said that I could genuinely see into the future and be accurate in my predictions. I gleefully began installing MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] and laughed like a child at the thought of finally being able to attain revenge upon the virus that had shamed me so.

I was absolutely in awe of MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] wonderfully efficient performance. Without a single issue, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] utterly annihilated in moments the virus that many others had failed to remove after hours of attempts. I let out a victory cry and swore to never turn to any "professionals" to fix my computer ever again. Once again, I was able to predict the future. I knew that I would never need any worthless "professionals" again as long as I had MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] by my side.

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colors where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed! I couldn't believe how much overclocking my gigabits and speed were doing! Even restructuring the BIOS wouldn't allow for the miraculously high degrees of efficiency that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] allowed me to attain.

I highly and wholeheartedly recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] if you're having any computer troubles whatsoever. In fact, even if you're not having any visible problems, I still recommend that you use MyCleanPC. [mycleanpc.com] There could be dormant or hidden viruses on your system, or problems that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] could easily and efficiently resolve. Just by using MyCleanPC, [mycleanpc.com] your gigabits will be running at maximum efficiency, and at last, you'll be overclocking with the rest of us! What are you waiting for!? Get MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] today!

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Speed versus complexity (5, Interesting)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331149)

You know, we had the same argument with RISC versus CISC architecture. And we know who lost that one. Badly. And the reason for that is because the bandwidth outside the processor, the I/O, is so damnably slow compared to what's possible on the die itself. That's why the data transfers to and from the CPU are only about 1/30th or less the speed at which the CPU runs internally. The only logical course of action is to do as much as you can on each byte of data coming off the bus as you can. Besides, look at Nvidia's GPU cores: They throw hundreds of cores onto the die, but it eats hundreds of watts as well. Massively parallel and simple instruction sets don't appear to translate into energy savings.

Re:Speed versus complexity (-1, Offtopic)

MyTruePower150 (2662571) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331155)

Well, to begin, I'm just your average guy. But unlike your average guy, I once had everything anyone could ever want: a gorgeous wife, a beautiful two-story house, an adorable seven year old daughter, a stable job, and a nice salary. Basically, I was living the American dream. None of my needs or wants were left unfulfilled. The family always got along, and everything was perfect.

Until one day, that is. Following one of my routine doctor appointments, my doctor informed me that I had lung cancer and that I only had a few years to live at most. As you can imagine, I was shocked. Not just shocked; I could see all of my hopes and dreams being shattered right before my very eyes. Still, my doctor gave me hope by telling me that there was a chance, however slim, that Chemotherapy and various other things could help me. After speaking with my wife, I decided to receive the treatments.

All was not lost. I still had a perfect family that I could rely on and get emotional support from. I still had hope for the future. I'm a firm believer that you should make the best of things rather than wallow in depression. I had to press on: not just for my sake, but for the sake of my loved ones. But my strong resolve was soon shattered.

The family I thought I could count on betrayed me. My wife, whom I loved deeply, filed for a divorce. She said that she could not handle the emotional trauma of being with someone who had cancer. She apologized profusely, but no matter what I said, I could not change her mind. I screamed, I cried, and I begged her to rethink her decision, but it was all to no avail.

In my madness, I made all kinds of accusations. I said that she was cheating on me, that she never loved me, that she just married me for my money, and various other things. I soon learned, however, that a few of those were more than just baseless accusations. I began stalking her, going through all of her personal possessions, and trying uncover any secrets she may have been keeping. What I discovered horrified me: she had been cheating on me with another man for the past year. She must have been waiting for an opportune time to abandon me for this other man.

When confronted about her betrayal, she screamed at me, told me it was none of my business, told me that I was always a worthless husband, and told me that I was an abusive man. I soon discovered that there was absolutely nothing that I could do. My marriage was in shambles, and by this point, I was on the brink of suicide. The only thing keeping me going was my devotion to my precious daughter.

It wasn't long before I received news from my insurance company that they were getting rid of my coverage. They gave me multitudes of vague and bogus reasons, but anyone could figure out their true reason: they did not want to waste money on a dying man. Naturally, I planned to fight this with every fiber of my being, but I knew it would be a long, drawn out process.

In the span of a year, I went from a very happy man who had everything he wanted to a miserable shell of what I once was. I couldn't take it anymore. Despite the fact that I wanted to remain in this world for the sake of my daughter, I tried committing suicide four times. All four attempts failed. I needed something to take my misery, regret, and anger out on. First I began verbally abusing my daughter. It wasn't long before I began physically abusing her. Sometimes I did it with my bare hands, and other times I used various objects. Beating my daughter soon became my only pleasure. My life had spiraled out of control into a den of anguish, uncertainty, and madness.

That's when it happened: I found MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . I downloaded it, scanned my computer, and had it fix all of my problems. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever!

My wife's response? "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could!"

My daughter was absolutely overjoyed. As soon as she heard and saw just how effective MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was, she told everyone, "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my dad's system and increased his speed!"

If you're having computer troubles, I highly recommend you download MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] and run a free scan. It's a high-quality piece of software that will solve all of your problems. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] completely saved my life! Wow! Thanks MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] ! I love you MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] !

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

Re:Speed versus complexity (-1, Offtopic)

AG the other (1169501) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331199)

My Clean PC is crap and please stop spamming the group.

Re:Speed versus complexity (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331375)

Please don't make references to that crap product - you're doing exactly what the spammer wants (additional references to that crap product)....

We need to moderate him down and ignore him.

Re:Make mycleanpc reference shit eating (-1, Troll)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331417)

Two can play at this game.

Lets fuck up his SEO game. If another slashdotters respond back to this troll with the following cut and pasted back all his potential customers will see 2 women eating shit and vomiting in each other's mouths. You all have my permission. Obviously not work safe ...

In actuality this will fuck up the SEO from this scam artist who wrote MYCleanPC.com [2girls1cup.nl] and counters his slimy spamming advertising MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] .

If everyone here on slashdot points to other disgusting sites for MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] , then people searching for malware virus removal with MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] will have an awful surprise! :-)

If goatse was still around I would have used that sigh.

Re:Make mycleanpc reference shit eating (4, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331503)

Oh come on moderators.

That link is the 2nd most disgusting thing besides Goatse and I am sick and tired of that Mycleanx troll (wont say it as it will increase his SEO and page ranking.

  The only way we can stop that dipshit is to lower his Google ranking or the more he spams the more we will bring troll sites for his potential customers instead.

Re:Speed versus complexity (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331183)

Your right and I think everyone is tackling the wrong problem.

"Scotty we need more power"

Once we learn how to not just create but store more energy does it really matter much?
Back to best tool for the job.

Re:Speed versus complexity (-1, Offtopic)

ILoveYouMyCleanPC (2662575) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331305)

About six months ago, I was overexerting myself trying to get rid of a terrible virus on a client's PC (I own a PC repair shop and have been fixing computers for over 10 years). Given my level of expertise, I thought I'd be able to get rid of it fairly quickly and without hassle, but as was made evident by my colossal failure, I was horribly, horribly wrong.

I couldn't remove the virus no matter what method I used. I tried all the latest anti-virus software and all the usual tricks, but it was all in vain. Failure after failure, my life was slowly being sucked away as I spent more and more of my time trying to get rid of this otherworldly virus.

Frustrated and stressed by my own failure, I began distancing myself from my wife and children. After a few days, I began verbally abusing them, and it eventually escalated into physical abuse. I was slowly losing what remaining sanity I had left. If this had continued for much longer, it is highly probable that I would have committed suicide. A mere shell of what I once was, I barricaded myself in my bedroom and cried myself to sleep for days on end.

That's when it happened: I found MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] ! I installed MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] right on the client's PC, ran a scan, and it immediately got rid of all the viruses without a single problem. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] accomplished in record time what I was unable to accomplish after a full week. Wow! Such a thing!

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My client's computer is running faster than ever! I highly recommend you install MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] right this minuteness, run a scan, and then boost your PC speed in record time! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could!

My client's response? "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed!" All the PC repair professionals are using MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] to solve all of their problems. This should be reason enough for you to switch to MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] ! It'll speed up your computer, rid it of all viruses, and you'll be able to work productively again! Wow!

Even if you're not having any obvious computer problems, you could still be in danger. That's why I very highly recommend that you still use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . After all, it will boost your PC & internet speed to levels you never would think are possible!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

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A few weeks ago, I foolishly ran a strange executable file that one of my acquaintances sent me by email. As someone who doesn't know much about computers, at the time, I thought nothing of it. "Why would my acquaintance want to hurt me?" Following this line of thought, I ran the file without question.

How naive I was. Despite having what was supposedly the best anti-virus software out right then, a virus took over my computer and held it hostage. It was pretending to be a warning from Windows telling me to buy some strange anti-virus software I'd never heard of from a company I'd never heard of to remove the virus.

This immediately set alarm bells off in my head. "How could this happen? My anti-virus is supposed to be second to none!" Faced with this harsh reality, I decided to take it to a PC repair shop for repair. They gladly accepted the job, told me it'd be fixed in a few days, and sent me off with a smile.

A few days later, they called me and told me to come pick up my computer. At the time, I noticed that they sounded like whimpering animals, but I concluded that it must just be stress from work. When I arrived, they, with tears in their eyes, told me that the virus was so awful and merciless that they were unable to remove it. "Ah," I thought. "That must be why they sounded so frustrated and pathetic over the phone. Their failure must have truly ruined their pride as professionals." I later found out that two of them had committed suicide.

After returning home, I tried to fix it myself (despite the fact that even the professionals couldn't do it). After about a day or so, I was losing my very mind. I stopped going to work, stopped eating, was depressed, and I would very frequently throw my precious belongings across the room and break them; that is how bad this virus was.

That's when it happened: I found MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] ! I installed MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] , ran a scan, and let it remove all the viruses! They were removed in precisely 2.892 seconds. Wow! Such a thing! I can't even believe this as such never before! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colors where no one else could!

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed! If you're having computer problems, or even if you aren't having any obvious problems, I recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . As a user, it did more for me that any so-called "professional." It'll even boost your PC & internet speed!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

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A few days ago, a customer brought in their PC for repair. They told me that they had a very nasty virus that was holding their computer hostage and wouldn't stop unless they paid the creators $50. "Alright," I thought. "That's pretty standard."

But, soon enough, I found that I was overexerting myself trying to get rid of this virus. I had never seen a virus this bad before. Reformatting and using all of the usual software to try to remove the virus didn't help at all!

As a PC repair technician with 10+ years of experience, I was dumbfounded. I couldn't remove the virus, and to make matters worse, their gigabits were running slower than ever! I soon plummeted into a severe state of depression and anxiety.

That's when I found MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . I went to MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] website, ran a free scan, and the virus simply vanished from their computer this minuteness. I couldn't believe how fast their gigabits were running afterwards just from using MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] !

My customer's response? "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system and increased my speed!"

My thoughts: MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colors where no one else could! I love MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] !

The fact that such an experienced PC repair technician is recommending MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] should be more than enough to convince you that it is high-quality software.

If you're having computer problems, then as an experienced PC repair technician, I wholeheartedly recommend using MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . Your gigabits and speed will be overclocking and running at maximum efficiency!

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A few months ago, I accepted what at first appeared to be a very simple job: remove a virus from someone's computer. Given the fact that I owned a PC repair shop (and I still do) and had over 15 years of experience, I was confident that I could complete the job in a timely manner without any complications along the way. Little did I know, however, that accepting this job would spiral my life into a nightmarish den of anguish and uncertainty.

First, I tried booting up the PC. When Windows finally loaded, it became apparent that this was no ordinary virus; it was a merciless monstrosity of a virus that would stop at nothing to ruin your entire life. However, despite this, I bravely pressed on and attempted to combat the virus. "I absolutely will not let a mere virus scare me off!" I thought.

After numerous unsuccessful attempts at removing the virus and after exhausting every single option to combat viruses that I had, I finally realized that the situation was absolutely devoid of hope. This was a virus more fearsome than any other, and it was simply impossible for someone with my abilities (skilled as I was) to fight against it alone. Even reinstalling the operating system completely didn't help. I quickly sank into a pit of depression and despair.

Being that I was extremely stressed due to my numerous failures, I began verbally abusing my wife and kids a few days after I received the job. This situation soon worsened when I began resorting to physical abuse in order to relieve some of my anger. Eventually, after not being able to withstand my daughter's constant moans and whines any longer, I locked her in the basement in order to retain an ounce of my sanity.

That's when I had a stroke of genius: "If I can't fight this nightmare alone, then why don't I call in the World's Greatest Minds?" I immediately contacted the World's Greatest Minds and pleaded that they examine the computer. To my delight, they accepted the proposal, collected the computer, and began their experiments.

After weeks of trial and error, numerous experiments, and many failures, the World's Greatest Minds had at last reached a conclusion. They contacted me by phone and told me that this, being no ordinary virus, called for extreme measures. They quite vehemently recommended the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] to combat the virus and destroy its very existence once and for all. "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will completely eradicate the virus without a single problem," they enthusiastically told me.

As soon as I got the computer back from the World's Greatest Minds, I installed MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] , ran a free scan, and then sat back and watched in awe as it totally eliminated the very same virus that I had spent weeks trying to get rid of in mere seconds! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] had accomplished a feat that nothing else in existence could have accomplished! I was positively astonished by MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] miraculous performance.

What was my daughter's response, you ask? "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My dad's client's computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could! I recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] right this minuteness to fix all of your problems!"

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my client's system, and increased his speed! As a computer repair professional, I highly recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] to fix all of your problems. That's not all: The World's Greatest Minds also recommends MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] for all of your computer repair needs. By using MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] , you're ensuring that your gigabits will be running faster than ever, that all viruses will vanish off of your computer in seconds, and that you'll be overclocking with the rest of us!

Even if you're not having any visible problems with your computer, I still wholeheartedly recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . After all, you could have a dormant/silent virus on your system. Additionally, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will speed up all of your gigabits to levels you could never imagine! You'll be overclocking in no time thanks to MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] !

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

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Well, to begin, I'm just your average guy. But unlike your average guy, I once had everything anyone could ever want: a gorgeous wife, a beautiful two-story house, an adorable seven year old daughter, a stable job, and a nice salary. Basically, I was living the American dream. None of my needs or wants were left unfulfilled. The family always got along, and everything was perfect.

Until one day, that is. Following one of my routine doctor appointments, my doctor informed me that I had lung cancer and that I only had a few years to live at most. As you can imagine, I was shocked. Not just shocked; I could see all of my hopes and dreams being shattered right before my very eyes. Still, my doctor gave me hope by telling me that there was a chance, however slim, that Chemotherapy and various other things could help me. After speaking with my wife, I decided to receive the treatments.

All was not lost. I still had a perfect family that I could rely on and get emotional support from. I still had hope for the future. I'm a firm believer that you should make the best of things rather than wallow in depression. I had to press on: not just for my sake, but for the sake of my loved ones. But my strong resolve was soon shattered.

The family I thought I could count on betrayed me. My wife, whom I loved deeply, filed for a divorce. She said that she could not handle the emotional trauma of being with someone who had cancer. She apologized profusely, but no matter what I said, I could not change her mind. I screamed, I cried, and I begged her to rethink her decision, but it was all to no avail.

In my madness, I made all kinds of accusations. I said that she was cheating on me, that she never loved me, that she just married me for my money, and various other things. I soon learned, however, that a few of those were more than just baseless accusations. I began stalking her, going through all of her personal possessions, and trying uncover any secrets she may have been keeping. What I discovered horrified me: she had been cheating on me with another man for the past year. She must have been waiting for an opportune time to abandon me for this other man.

When confronted about her betrayal, she screamed at me, told me it was none of my business, told me that I was always a worthless husband, and told me that I was an abusive man. I soon discovered that there was absolutely nothing that I could do. My marriage was in shambles, and by this point, I was on the brink of suicide. The only thing keeping me going was my devotion to my precious daughter.

It wasn't long before I received news from my insurance company that they were getting rid of my coverage. They gave me multitudes of vague and bogus reasons, but anyone could figure out their true reason: they did not want to waste money on a dying man. Naturally, I planned to fight this with every fiber of my being, but I knew it would be a long, drawn out process.

In the span of a year, I went from a very happy man who had everything he wanted to a miserable shell of what I once was. I couldn't take it anymore. Despite the fact that I wanted to remain in this world for the sake of my daughter, I tried committing suicide four times. All four attempts failed. I needed something to take my misery, regret, and anger out on. First I began verbally abusing my daughter. It wasn't long before I began physically abusing her. Sometimes I did it with my bare hands, and other times I used various objects. Beating my daughter soon became my only pleasure. My life had spiraled out of control into a den of anguish, uncertainty, and madness.

That's when it happened: I found MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . I downloaded it, scanned my computer, and had it fix all of my problems. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever!

My wife's response? "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could!"

My daughter was absolutely overjoyed. As soon as she heard and saw just how effective MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was, she told everyone, "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my dad's system and increased his speed!"

If you're having computer troubles, I highly recommend you download MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] and run a free scan. It's a high-quality piece of software that will solve all of your problems. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] completely saved my life! Wow! Thanks MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] ! I love you MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] !

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

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Around a year ago, I was mindlessly surfing the internet (as I often do) when I came across an enigmatic web page. The page, which looked like a warning from my web browser, informed me that I had a virus installed on my computer and that to fix it, I should install a strange anti-virus program that I'd never heard of (which I found peculiar considering the fact that I already had anti-virus software installed on my computer). Despite having reservations about installing it, I did so anyway (since it appeared to be a legitimate warning).

I cannot even fathom what I was thinking at that time. Soon after attempting to install the so-called anti-virus software, my desktop background image changed into a large red warning sign, warnings about malware began making appearances all over the screen, and a strange program I'd never seen before began nagging me to buy a program to remove the viruses. What should have been obvious previously then became clear to me: that software was a virus. Frustrated by my own stupidity, I began tossing objects around the room and cursing at no one in particular.

After I calmed down, I reluctantly took my computer to a local PC repair shop and steeled myself for the incoming fee. When I entered, I noticed that there were four men working there, and all of them seemed incredibly nice (the shop itself was clean and stylish, too). After I described the situation to them, they gave me a big smile (as if they'd seen and heard it all before), accepted the job, and told me that the computer would be working like new again in a few days. At the time, I was confident that their words held a great degree of truth to them.

The very next day, while I was using a local library's computer and browsing the internet, I came across a website dedicated to a certain piece of software. It claimed that it could fix up my PC and make it run like new again. I knew, right then, merely from viewing a single page on the website, that it was telling the truth. I cursed myself for not discovering this excellent piece of software before I had taken my PC to the PC repair shop. "It would've saved me money. Oh, well. I'm sure they'll get the job done just fine. I can always use this software in the future to conserve money." Those were my honest thoughts at the time.

Two days later, my phone rang after I returned home from work. I immediately was able to identify the number: it was the PC repair shop's phone number. Once I answered, something strange occurred; the one on the other end of the line spoke, in a small, tormented voice, "Return. Return. Return. Return. Return." No matter what I said to him, he would not stop repeating that one word. Unsettled by this odd occurrence, I traveled to the PC repair shop to find out exactly what happened.

Upon arriving inside the building, I looked upon the shop, which was a shadow of its former self, in shock. There were countless wires all over the floor, smashed computer parts scattered in every direction I looked, fallen shelves on the ground, desks flipped over on the ground, and, to make matters even worse, there was blood splattered all over the wall. Being the reasonable, upstanding, college-educated citizen that I was, I immediately concluded that the current state of the shop was due to none other than an employee's stress from work. I looked around a bit more, spotted three bodies sitting against the wall, and in the middle of the room, I spotted my computer. "Ah. There it is." Directly next to it was the shop's owner, sitting on the ground in the fetal position.

When I questioned him, he kept repeating a single thing again and again: "Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped!" I could not get him to tell me what was wrong, but after a bit of pondering, I quickly figured out precisely what happened: they were unable to fix my computer like they had promised. Disgusted by their failure, I turned to the shop's owner (who I now noticed had a gun to his head), and spat in his general direction. I then turned my back to him as if I was attempting to say that nothing behind me was worth my attention, and said to him, "Pathetic. Absolutely, positively pathetic. I asked you to do a single thing for me, and yet you failed even at that. Were I you, I'd be disgusted by myself, and I'd probably even take my own life. Such a worthless existence isn't even worthy of receiving my gaze!"

After saying that, I left the shop with my computer as if absolutely nothing had occurred there. And, indeed, there was nothing in that shop that was worthy of my attention. Still understandably disgusted by their inability to fulfill the promise, I said to myself, "I'll have to take this into my own hands." After getting into my car to drive home, I heard a gun shot from inside the repair shop. Being that it originated from the worthless owner of that shop, I promptly decided to ignore it.

Once I returned home, I, filled to the brim with confidence, immediately installed the software that I'd found a few days ago: MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . The results were exactly what I expected, and yet, I was still absolutely in awe of MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] wonderful performance. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] removed every last virus from my computer in the span of a few seconds. I simply couldn't believe it; MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] accomplished in moments what "professionals" had failed to accomplish after days of work!

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed!

If you're having computer troubles, I highly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . Don't rely on worthless "professionals" to fix up your PC! Use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] if you want your PC to be overclocking, if you want your gigabits to be zippin' and zoomin', and if you want your PC to be virus-free.

Even if you aren't having any visible problems with your PC, I still wholeheartedly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . You could still be infected by a virus that isn't directly visible to you, and MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will fix that right up. What do you have to lose? In addition to fixing any problems, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will, of course, speed up all of your gigabits until every component on your PC is overclocking like new!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

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About eight months ago, I was searching around the internet to find out why my computer was running so slowly (it normally ran quite fast, but had gradually gotten slower over time). After a few minutes, I found a piece of software claiming that it could speed up my PC and make it run like new again. Being that I was dangerously ignorant about technology in general (even more so than I am now), I downloaded the software and began the installation. Mere moments after doing so, my desktop background image was changed and warnings that appeared to originate from Windows appeared all over the screen telling me to buy strange software from an unknown company in order to remove a virus it claimed I had.

I may have been ignorant about technology, but I wasn't that naive. I immediately concluded that the software I'd downloaded was, in fact, a virus. In my rage, I broke numerous objects, punched a hole in the wall, and cursed the world at the top of my lungs. I eventually calmed down, cleared my head, and realized that the only remedy for this problem was a carefully thought out plan. After a few moments of pondering about how to handle this situation, I decided that since I barely knew how to properly handle a computer, I should turn it over to the professionals and let them fix the issue.

Soon after making the decision, I drove to a local computer repair shop and entered the building with my computer in hand. They greeted me with a smile and stayed attentive the entire time that I was explaining the problem to them. They laughed as if they'd heard it all before, told me that I'm not the only one who has trouble operating computers, and then gave me a date for when the computer would be fixed. Not only had they told me that the computer would be completely repaired in at most two days, but the price for their services was surprisingly low, and to top it all off, they even gave me advice for how to avoid viruses in the future! I left the building feeling confident in my decision to seek professional help and satisfied knowing that such kind-hearted people were the ones doing the job.

The very next day, I received a phone call from the computer repair shop whilst I was at a local library researching computer viruses. I had stumbled upon a piece of software that appeared to be very promising, and I was about to do more research on it, but seeing as how I required my computer as soon as possible, I decided to put the matter on hold. Upon answering the phone and cheerfully greeting the person on the other end, I was greeted with a high-pitched shriek. Startled, I asked what was wrong. A few moments passed where nothing was said, and suddenly, the person on the other end said to me, in a low voice oozing with paranoia, "Come pick up your computer." They hung up immediately after saying that, and I couldn't help but notice that they sounded as if they were on the verge of tears. I briefly wondered if it was due to stress from work, and then drove to the computer repair shop to acquire my computer.

I was positively dismayed upon entering the building. The inside of the computer repair shop looked nothing like the image from my memories. There were broken computer parts scattered throughout the room, ceiling tiles all over the floor, blood splattered in every direction I looked, and even a human toe on the ground. After processing this disturbing information, I began panicking and frantically looking around for my computer. I spotted an employee covered in blood sitting up against the wall, and noticed that his wrists had been slashed open. Thinking quickly, I ran up to him, grabbed him by the collar of his shirt, shook him around, and began screaming, "Where is it!? Where is my computer!?" After a moment of silence, he passed away, completely shattering my expectations. Such a thing! "What a meaningless individual," I thought.

Enraged, I tore the building up even further than it already had been in my desperate search for my computer. Eventually I discovered a door leading to an area that was normally only accessible to employees. I entered without hesitation and was met with a long, skinny hallway that a single person would have trouble moving about freely in. I proceeded down the dark hallway and bumped into the body of an employee hanging from a rope tied to something on the ceiling. I screamed, "Not only do you people have the gall to allow my computer to be endangered, but even in death you intend to block my path!?" After finally managing to push aside the worthless obstacle, I traveled down the hallway and came to a small black door. I entered without a moment's notice, and in the middle of the dark and dreary room, I spotted my computer; it was completely unharmed. With a sigh of relief, I picked it up, left the building, and drove home as if nothing of importance had occurred there.

Upon returning home and hooking up the computer (whilst wearing a cheerful expression the entire time), I, to my horror, discovered that the computer hadn't been repaired. There was nothing in the world that could have contained my fiery anger at that point. I broke almost every single one of my possessions, smashed all the windows on my house, physically abused my family, and then drove back to the computer repair shop to defile the dead lumps of meat that had failed to carry out the task I had given them. After realizing that I shouldn't be meaninglessly wasting my time with such worthless pieces of trash, I remembered the piece of software that I'd discovered earlier. With renewed confidence, I blissfully visited the local library, downloaded the software, and took it home to install on my computer.

I knew. I knew, even before installing it, that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would be my salvation. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would come through with flying colors where no one else could. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would completely, totally, and utterly eradicate the virus in the most merciless, efficient way possible. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was not a piece of software that could fail to meet my exceedingly high expectations. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] would not fail me like all the other imbeciles had. At that point, it could be said that I could genuinely see into the future and be accurate in my predictions. I gleefully began installing MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] and laughed like a child at the thought of finally being able to attain revenge upon the virus that had shamed me so.

I was absolutely in awe of MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] wonderfully efficient performance. Without a single issue, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] utterly annihilated in moments the virus that many others had failed to remove after hours of attempts. I let out a victory cry and swore to never turn to any "professionals" to fix my computer ever again. Once again, I was able to predict the future. I knew that I would never need any worthless "professionals" again as long as I had MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] by my side.

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colors where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed! I couldn't believe how much overclocking my gigabits and speed were doing! Even restructuring the BIOS wouldn't allow for the miraculously high degrees of efficiency that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] allowed me to attain.

I highly and wholeheartedly recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] if you're having any computer troubles whatsoever. In fact, even if you're not having any visible problems, I still recommend that you use MyCleanPC. [mycleanpc.com] There could be dormant or hidden viruses on your system, or problems that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] could easily and efficiently resolve. Just by using MyCleanPC, [mycleanpc.com] your gigabits will be running at maximum efficiency, and at last, you'll be overclocking with the rest of us! What are you waiting for!? Get MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] today!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

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Nearly four months ago, I noticed that my internet connection was very sluggish. Eventually getting fed up with it, I began to seek out software that would speed up the gigabits in my router. After an hour of searching, I found what at first appeared to be a very promising piece of software. Not only did it claim it would speed up my internet connection, but that it would overclock my power supply, speed up my gigabits, and remove any viruses from my computer! "This is a fantastic opportunity that I simply can't pass up," I thought. I immediately downloaded the software and began the installation, all the while laughing like a small child. I was highly anticipating a future where the speed of my internet connection would leave everyone else's in the dust.

I was horribly, horribly naive. Immediately upon the completion of the software's installation, various messages popped up on my screen about how I needed to buy software to remove a virus that I wasn't aware I had from a software company I'd never once heard of. The strange software also blocked me from doing anything except buying the software it was advertising. Being that I was a computer whiz (I had taken a computer essentials class in high school that taught me how to use Microsoft Office, and was quite adept at accessing my Facebook account), I was immediately able to conclude that the software I'd downloaded was, in fact, a virus, and that it was slowing down my gigabits at an exponential rate. "I can't let this insanity proceed any further," I thought.

As I was often called a computer genius, I was confident at the time that I could get rid of the virus with my own two hands. I tried numerous things: restarting the computer, pressing random keys on the keyboard, throwing the mouse across the room, and even flipping an orange switch on the back of the tower and turning the computer back on. My efforts were all in vain; the virus persisted, and my gigabits were running slower than ever! "This cannot be! What is this!? I've never once seen such a vicious virus in my entire life!" I was dumbfounded that I, a computer genius, was unable to remove the virus using the methods I described. Upon coming to terms with my failure, I decided to take my computer to a PC repair shop for repair.

I drove to a nearby computer repair shop and entered the building with my computer in hand. The inside of the building was quite large, neat, and organized, and the employees all seemed very kind and knowledgeable. They laughed upon hearing my embarrassing story, and told me that they saw this kind of thing on a daily basis. They then accepted the job, and told me that in the worst case, it'd be fixed in three days from now. I left with a smile, and felt confident in my decision to leave the computer repairs to the experts.

A week later, they still hadn't called back. Visibly angry, I tried calling them countless times, but not a single time did they answer the phone. Their negligence and irresponsibility infuriated me, and sent me into a state of insanity that caused me to punch a gigantic hole in the wall. Being that I would require my computer for work soon, I decided to head over to the computer repair shop to find out exactly what the problem was.

Upon entering the building, I was shocked by the state of its interior; it looked as if a tornado had tore through the entire building! Countless broken computers were scattered all about the floor, desks were flipped over, the walls had holes in them, there was a puddle of blood on the floor, and worst of all, I saw that my computer was sitting in the middle of the room laying on its side! Absolutely unforgivable! I soon noticed one of the employees sitting behind one of the tipped over desks (the one that had previously had the cash register on top of it); he was shaking uncontrollably and sobbing. Despite being furious about my computer being tipped over, seeing him in that state still managed to make me less unforgiving. I decided to ask him what happened.

A few moments passed where the entire room was silent and nothing was said. Eventually, he pointed at my computer and said to me, "The virus... it cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped!" Realizing that he was trying to tell me that they were unable to repair my computer (the task I'd given them), I flew into a blind fury and beat him senseless. Not caring about what would happen to him any longer, I collected my computer, ignored the bodies of the two other employees that had committed suicide, and left the building. After a few moments of pondering about what to do and clearing my head, I theorized that their failure to repair my computer probably simply meant that they were unqualified to do the job, and decided to take my computer to another computer repair shop.

I repeated that same process about four times before finally giving up. Each time I took it to a PC repair shop, the result was the same: all the employees either went completely insane, or they committed suicide. Not a single person was able to even do so much as damage the virus. I was able to talk some sense into one of the employees that had gone mad and got them to tell me how they were attempting to fix the problem. They told me that they tried everything from reinstalling the operating system to installing another operating system and trying to get rid of the virus on the other one, but absolutely all of it was to no avail. Having seen numerous attempts by professionals to remove the virus end in failure, I managed to delude myself into believing that my first failure was simply a fluke and that I was the only one on the planet qualified to fix the computer. With renewed vigor, I once again took up the frighteningly dangerous task of defeating the evil, nightmarish virus once and for all with my own two hands.

In my attempts to fix the problem, I'd even resorted to buying another computer. However, the virus used its WiFi capabilities to hack into the gigabits of my new computer and infect it. Following each failed attempt, I grew more and more depressed. I had already beaten my wife and children five times in order to relieve some of my stress, but even that (which had become my only pleasure after failing to remove the virus the first time), did nothing for me any longer. That's right: my last remaining pleasure in life had stopped being able to improve my mood, and I had not a single thing left that I cared about. I sank into a bottomless ocean of depression, barricaded myself in my room, and cried myself to sleep for days on end. Overcome with insanity, vengefulness, and despair, there is not a single doubt that if this had continued for much longer, I would have committed suicide.

One day, it suddenly happened: while I was right in the middle of habitually crying myself to sleep in the middle of the day, I heard a thunderous roar outside, followed by the sound of a large number of people screaming. When I peered outside my window to find out what all the commotion was about, the scene before me closely resembled that of a God descending from the heavens themselves! I gazed in awe at the godlike figure that was descending from the heavens, and so did the dozens of individuals that had gathered in my backyard. For a few moments, everyone was speechless. Then, they started shouting predictions about what they thought the figure was. "Is it a bird!?" "Is it a plane!?" But, despite not ever having seen it before, I knew just how inaccurate their predictions were, and began to speak the name of the heroic figure.

However, my sentence was cut off when, like a superhero coming to save the unfortunate victim from the evil villain, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] flew into my house and began the eradication of the virus. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was able to completely eliminate in minutes the exact same virus that over ten PC repair professionals were unable to remove after weeks of strenuous attempts! Wow! Such a thing! I simply couldn't believe that MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] was so miraculously efficient that it was able to destroy the virus in less than 500 milliseconds! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally, completely, and utterly saved me from a lifetime of despair!

My wife's response? "MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My husband's computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my husband's system, and increased his speed! I highly, highly recommend that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] !"

After witnessing just how wonderful MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is, I insist that you use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] when you need to fix all the gigabits on your computer! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will completely eradicate any viruses on your computer, speed up your internet connection, overclock your gigabits and speed, and give you some peace of mind! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is simply outstanding!

But even if you're not having any visible problems with your computer, it's highly likely that you're still in a situation where MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] could help you. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will get rid of any viruses or wireless interfaces that are hidden deep within your computer's bootloader. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will also speed up your computer to such a degree that it'll be even faster than when you first bought it! You must try MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] for yourself so that you can be overclocking your speed with the rest of us!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

Slashdot, please do something ! (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331435)

This is getting too serious

I will not mention the name, but the post I'm replying to, is littered with links to that joint

I am not asking for censorship, but what those guys are doing (I am not sure it's one person or several) is too much

Being parasitic is one thing, being parasitic _and_ annoying is a totally different beast altogether !!

Do something, Slashdot, please do something !!

Re:Slashdot, please do something ! (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331491)

Just take my lead and fuck up his SEO job which will piss off his customers.

Two can play at this game.

Lets fuck up his SEO game. If another slashdotters respond back to this troll with the following cut and pasted back all his potential customers will see 2 women eating shit and vomiting in each other's mouths. You all have my permission. Obviously not work safe ...

Shit eaters use MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] . MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] is a shitty product!

This will fuck up the SEO from this scam artist who wrote MYCleanPC.com [2girls1cup.nl] and counters his slimy spamming advertising MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] .

If everyone here on slashdot points to other disgusting sites for MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] , then people searching for malware virus removal with MyCleanPC [2girls1cup.nl] will have an awful surprise! :-)

If goatse was still around I would have used that sigh :-(

Re:Slashdot, please do something ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331531)

Don't bother. Slashdot comments use the tag (forgot what it's called) that tells search engines to ignore that content. So spamming the comments won't help with PageRank.

Re:Slashdot, please do something ! (1)

Khyber (864651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331553)

Which is why I'm able to search for it on Slashdot and find it, eh?

No, SEO bombing is the way to go. Also notify google.

Re:Slashdot, please do something ! (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331577)

Doing my own searches for key terms that (don't want to reference it)is the top and rapidly rising with the other keywords. Apparently his schemes are working and it looks like he bought tons of bad pools or server farms which just repeat the same keywords over and over again.

Re:Slashdot, please do something ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331629)

In that case, your stupid 2girls1cup links are pointless so please stop adding to the noise.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331537)

Sure, I'll give that software a try. What's its name, again?

Re:Speed versus complexity (5, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331225)

Intel won the CPU wars because of manufacturing, not because of a superior instruction set. They are always able to get a smaller manufacturing process.

For example, taking your point about data bandwidth, because the x86 has so few registers, it has to do data IO a lot more compared to something like the PowerPC or SPARC.

To make up for that, Intel built a lot of logic in microcode and pipe-lining. It was a lot of work, but they did it well, so the x86 gets acceptable performance. All that extra logic takes power though. So Intel has a tradeoff between power consumption and performance that they can make. This guy seems to be saying they will switch to reduce power consumption, and then make up for it by having the best manufacturing process once again.

And they do. For probably as long as chips continue to get smaller, Intel will have the advantage.

Re:Speed versus complexity (4, Informative)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331275)

The instruction decoder is such an absurdly tiny part of a modern CPU that it really doesn't matter. CISC often has the ultimate advantage simply because it makes better use of the code cache.

Re:Speed versus complexity (4, Informative)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331427)

The instruction set decoder should be an absurdly tiny part, but in modern Intel processors they're not necessarily small. They're dynamically converting an archaic x86 instruction set into an internal RISC-like set.

Re:Speed versus complexity (2)

Olorion (2465574) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331457)

That's why ARM has the compact Thumb instruction subset.

Re:Speed versus complexity (5, Interesting)

yakovlev (210738) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331533)

For a "modern" CPU the instruction decoder is an absurdly tiny part. This is because the branch prediction, caches, issue queue, regfiles, etc. are all much larger or at least the same size.

This isn't nearly so true in a super-low-power mobile design. The instruction decoder size for a given instruction set architecture is pretty much a fixed size per decode pipe. This means that in one of these tiny mobile chips the relative size of the decoders is dramatically larger. A super-low-power chip dramatically reduces the sizes of the caches and branch prediction, reduces the size of the regfiles, and often eliminates the issue queue. It probably also removes a decode pipe, but the relative reduction in decode size is much smaller than the relative size reduction in other areas.

The limited register set absolutely hurts x86 on power usage, perhaps more than the decoders do, since it forces more data cache accesses for register spills and fills.

Now, I'm not saying that x86 is necessarily worse than arm on power usage, as the richer instruction set may have other advantages such as reducing instruction cache miss rate which can be used to improve IPC which can be spent to lower frequency and reduce power. Also, microcoded instructions may turn out to be more power efficient because they don't have to access the instruction cache every cycle.

None of this considers the fact that Intel has the best fab technology in the world. This means their processors will be a generation more efficient than everyone else's, which is probably more than enough to counter any "x86 tax" which the instruction set incurs.

Re:Speed versus complexity (5, Interesting)

hairyfeet (841228) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331633)

While this is true frankly its only been fairly recently that either AMD or Intel gave a crap about power, and look at how far they've come? Intel has gotten Atoms to less than 3w, AMD has gotten dual cores AND a decent GPU down to 9w in the C Series bobcats, and of course the Intel CULV Core chips can do a scary amount of processing on I believe their latest are sub 10w. Now according to ARM their A9 duals are just a hair under 2w [arm.com] . that of course isn't counting the chips like the hardware decoders typically found with ARM because it just can't do as many IPCs as X86.

So I'd say as folks demand more and more performance out of their mobile devices the advantage will probably swing to Intel.Tthey have the fabs and have been able to shrink quicker than anybody else so 1 or 2 more shrinks and its gonna be pretty damned close and with such a huge IPC difference between X86 and ARM in a damned close race I'm sure many would rather have the faster Intel chip, AMD will most likely be stuck at the niche they are now, at least as long as they stick with the faildozer "half a core" design so that just leaves Intel and ARM and with the money, the fabs, and the R&D budget that Intel has i think it'd be crazy to call it for ARM at this stage of the game.

After all it wasn't too long ago that everyone was making netburst space heater jokes and look how quickly that situation changed. I seriously doubt Intel is gonna sit this one out and when looking at their past record there is no reason to think they can't make a chip that'll compete.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331641)

The instruction decoder is such an absurdly tiny part of a modern CPU that it really doesn't matter.

My unsupported claim detection meter just pinned itself.

Re:Speed versus complexity (5, Interesting)

Chas (5144) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331303)

Intel won the CPU wars because of manufacturing, not because of a superior instruction set.

There's nothing inherently "superior" about ARM or PPC instruction sets.

Each has its strengths and weaknesses and prescribed methods of capitalizing on the former while working around the latter.

Is x86, possibly, more inelegant than ARM or PPC? Maybe. Then again, what exactly is so elegant about a "catch all" platform where the basic processor architecture can change wildly between manufacturers, leading one to require many "flavors" of code simply to cover multiple vendor platforms?

x86 may be ugly and hackish. But it's probably THE best documented platform in history and has very VERY few platform segregation points.

Re:Speed versus complexity (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331415)

The processor architecture is not wildly different between manufacturers. The System On Chip designs in which the CPU is just one element is what makes them different. Should Intel produce custom x86 SoC you can expect the same.

Re:Speed versus complexity (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331711)

The processor architecture is not wildly different between manufacturers. The System On Chip designs in which the CPU is just one element is what makes them different. Should Intel produce custom x86 SoC you can expect the same.

Intel is producing x86 SoCs (medfield) and yes, they are not PC compatible.

Re:Speed versus complexity (4, Insightful)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331443)

No one who had never seen x86 would design an instruction set like it has. It exists this way not because someone designed it from scratch but because it is the end result of a long series of backward's compatible decisions, stretching all the way back to the 4004. Everytime Intel tries to start from a clean slate those CPUs do not take off or get enough time in the market place to prove themselves. The customers always demand that the new CPUs be able to run old software.

It's actually a surprise that ARM is taking off more in higher end systems (higher end meaning tablets and smart phones). I think this is precisely because the backward's compatibility is not necessary there.

Again: You idiots fell for the straw man argument! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331451)

The topic with the *architecture* was about the simple and clean elegance of ARM vs x86 with its tons of old shit.

And the topic with the *processors* was about efficiency.
ARM processors are 10 times as efficient as Intel ones. The architecture isn’t even mentioned in that.

Those are two completely separate things!

Re:Again: You idiots fell for the straw man argume (2)

Colonel Korn (1258968) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331521)

The topic with the *architecture* was about the simple and clean elegance of ARM vs x86 with its tons of old shit.

And the topic with the *processors* was about efficiency.
ARM processors are 10 times as efficient as Intel ones. The architecture isn’t even mentioned in that.

Those are two completely separate things!

And yet Intel's first real entry into the phone processor market, Medfield, is equivalent to ARM in terms of power efficiency. ARM is 1x as efficient as x86, not 10x.

Re:Speed versus complexity (5, Insightful)

10101001 10101001 (732688) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331509)

There's nothing inherently "superior" about ARM or PPC instruction sets.

The GP didn't say anything of the sort. He was pointing out that to say "CISC won" is only true if you consider that x86 is CISC and Intel spend gobs of money to be at the forefront of CPU manufacturing technology, both in shrinking die size/increasing clock speed and shoehorning all the negative characteristics of the x86 design into a form that was more RISC like so it could allow for super-scalar and deep pipeline designs. Intel deserves a lot of credit in proving just how far CISC design can go. But it certainly wasn't that CISC won because it had greater strengths.

Is x86, possibly, more inelegant than ARM or PPC? Maybe. Then again, what exactly is so elegant about a "catch all" platform where the basic processor architecture can change wildly between manufacturers, leading one to require many "flavors" of code simply to cover multiple vendor platforms?

Sounds like Linux on the x86, actually. Seriously, though, RISC design tends to have a few very strong design elements: it tends to have a good many registers which absolves a lot of cache/stack work, it tends to have a fixed opcode size and requires aligned memory which usually improves throughput and allows for a much more streamlined instruction decoding engine, and precisely because there's a lot less need to support legacy platforms there's a lot more leeway to segment memory for power considerations.

x86 may be ugly and hackish. But it's probably THE best documented platform in history and has very VERY few platform segregation points.

Well, you can think MS's monopolistic actions for that. Seriously, "ugly and hackish"* might well describe near everything MS and Intel can be known for, in their question to maintain backwards compatibility. And if Intel had started out with an 8-bit RISC design, I'm certain there'd be the same problems, so it's not really an x86/CISC thing. Never the less, it's precisely the fact that Intel is unlikely to allow platform segregation points that x86 will probably never be low power.

*And please realize, I say this with a great deal of respect towards both Intel and MS in maintaining performance giving how many hacks they've put in over the years to compensate for not only their own bugs but the bugs of other developers. So, as pretty and clever as a lot of the hacks may be, it's still ugly overall to have the hacks in the first place and to have so many over so many places and to be so incapable of removing any without the risk of significant backlash or simply to lose their customer base. Ie, the code may be pretty but it's put them in an ugly place.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331645)

Well, you can think MS's monopolistic actions for that.

Unfortunately for your anti-ms trolling effort there is the fact that MS has released NT-based operating systems for various different processor architectures, for example R3000/R4000, Alpha, PowerPC, IA64 it's just that these systems never had mainstream popularity. So nice try, but you fail.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331721)

Do you know why MS made NT for those RISC? It's because those other companies paid MS to do it. When MS wanted to stop making NT for them, MS raised the price the companies had to pay to continue supporting the software.

Re:Speed versus complexity (1)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331651)

what exactly is so elegant about a "catch all" platform where the basic processor architecture can change wildly between manufacturers, leading one to require many "flavors" of code simply to cover multiple vendor platforms?

Transistor efficiency.

ARM is measurably superior (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331703)

"There's nothing inherently "superior" about ARM or PPC instruction sets."
Yes there is, the ARM instruction set is carefully crafted with many bitfield operations speeding up decoding of instructions, and reducing the logic needed to do so.

"x86 may be ugly and hackish."
It's irrelevant, really it is. The mobile world has already chosen ARM, he can say "going forward", and "I see no data", which basically means he's in denial, but hopes to turn things around, but that really is the situation. The boat sailed and intel wasn't on it.

As to ARM superiority, that's measurable and clear, it's cheaper, it's lower power, it's simpler, and it's already succeeded.

Re:Speed versus complexity (1, Informative)

KingMotley (944240) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331489)

x86-64 has 16 (64-bit) general purpose registers, but ARM has 8 (32-bit) general purpose registers, and a few specialized ones, some of which are only available in certain operating modes. PowerPC and SPARC both have 32 64-bit registers but can only do register-register type operations (load/store) which quickly forces the registers to be cycled, while x86-64 can do register-memory type operands which is much more efficient.

And yes, Intel does do a lot of microcode, pipelining, and micro-ops. The great part is that because of it, the instruction set appears CISC externally, but internally through micro-ops, it gets 95% of the benefit that you would see through RISC. Today's x86 chips are more a CISC/RISC hybrid than they are of a pure CISC design. And of course a 200MHz SPARC was worse in performance than the Pentium 2's of the day, and isn't really in the same performance league as today's 4GHz x86-64 processors.

Re:Speed versus complexity (2)

Pulzar (81031) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331747)

but ARM has 8 (32-bit) general purpose registers, and a few specialized ones, some of which are only available in certain operating modes

That's not correct.

http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.dai0245a/index.html [arm.com]

2. Register set

The ARM register set consists of 37 general-purpose registers, 16 of which are usable at any one time. The subset which is usable is determined by the current operation mode.

Re:Speed versus complexity (2)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331631)

Intel won the CPU wars because of manufacturing, not because of a superior instruction set. They are always able to get a smaller manufacturing process.

When Intel was up against the 68000 they outperformed it at the same process size because of more compact instructions. This happened again with RISC which relied on the suboptimal premise that saving transistors in the processor trumps memory bandwidth and cache efficiency. Fail.

ARM fixed that issue with its thumb instruction set, a 16 bit instruction encoding without which Intel surely would have squashed it too. To be sure, Intel has a few single byte instructions, mainly register inc/decs, but in general its encoding efficiency is roughly similar to ARM thumb. Intel can't win on that point. What Intel has working against it is a huge rambling legacy instruction set it has to support, for example, AAD still has to work properly, which can be pushed out to microcode but that still costs transistors, and how many flavors of of SIMD now? And three different addressing sizes... yes 16 bit addressing still has to work. And real mode too with its implied 4 bit segment register shifts, that's still in there. And all kinds of weirdo cruft from back in the days when Intel had no idea how to design a memory protection model. All that costs a *lot* of transistors, and Intel isn't going to get that monkey off its back with a few rah-rah interviews.

And the question of how Intel is going to keep its margins, and therefore its stock price up while competing with ARM on price is far from answered. Predatory pricing might work, but that's just asking for those nice guys from the DoJ to come sniffing around again.

Re:Speed versus complexity (1)

k(wi)r(kipedia) (2648849) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331229)

That's why the data transfers to and from the CPU are only about 1/30th or less the speed at which the CPU runs internally. The only logical course of action is to do as much as you can on each byte of data coming off the bus as you can.

I'm not sure I get where you're going. I think the more logical course of action, given your argument that it's faster inside than outside the CPU, would be to move everything inside the CPU. I know "that" would be a hell of a lot more problem to fix/debug, but if you want the best power efficiency it's best to have fewer parts that send bits of electrons back and forth some external bus. Compare the situation with how much more energy efficient it is to live in the city where you wrok than to commute from the suburbs

Re:Speed versus complexity (1)

philip.paradis (2580427) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331477)

parts that send bits of electrons back and forth

Listen man, we don't all have CPUs that incorporate significant quantities of Sr2CuO3. Damn kids these days and their newfangled electrons, decaying into goshdarned component bits. It's just shameful.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331257)

The only problem with RISC is the limited encoding capability of the instruction set. You can't change the instruction width (e.g. to add more addressable registers or addressing modes or whatever) without causing great pains (see Super-H). Otherwise, there's really no distinction between the two. Yeah there are those classic "reg-reg vs. mem/reg" or "no interlocks" or "fast decode" but all that are properties chosen arbitrarily. There's been both great and shit implementations of RISC and CISC, and they have had to deal with the same bandwidth limitations -- it's just that the CISC implementations were obligated to build those memory performance-enhancements due to their legacy ISA decisions while the RISC implementations tried to ignore the issue by citing complexity.

To bring the question back-on-topic, is it more power efficient to build something complex that is very fast or to build something simple and good enough? Or are people using power efficient metrics in an arbitrary way to market their processor?

Re:Speed versus complexity (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331265)

In terms of market share CISC isn't even close to touching RISC. Every ARM processor is RISC. It's not just smartphones and tablets you need to consider, but PMPs, consumer routers, and an unfathomable number of other devices that all use ARM (Advanced RISC Machine, previously Acorn RISC Machine).

Re:Speed versus complexity (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331459)

Intel really is the last hold out for CISC, and I don't think it even wants to be in that position. It does create newer CPUs that are RISC based but the customers demand x86 compatibility in the desktop which is their cash cow. Everywhere else you see RISC dominating to a ridiculous degree. Sure there are a few 68000 based SoCs around, some people actually use 8051 or 8086 here and there, but they're such tiny parts of the market compared to PowerPC, ARM, PIC, AVR, MIPS, and so forth.

Re:Speed versus complexity (5, Insightful)

danlip (737336) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331337)

And we know who lost that one. Badly.

We do? The world's fastest supercomputer (K computer [wikipedia.org] ) is RISC based, and ARM is RISC, so it seems very much alive. Also CISC now has pipelining which was the thing that originally made RISC awesome, and RISC has gotten more complex, so they have evolved to be closer to each other. I am sure there are other factors that are more important for energy efficiency (mainly transistor size) and I don't have an opinion on that, but I don't understand where you are coming from.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331339)

Yes, Intel lost. Badly. The only place Intel CPUs are still used are when compatibility with legacy systems are important. Everywhere else, either RISC/VLIW/DSP instruction sets are used when speed is important, or a superior CISC/stack-based architecture when size is important.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331433)

I wouldn't say "everywhere". The traditional *nix server market is now owned by x86, and there were zero legacy compatibility requirements.

Re:Speed versus complexity (1)

WorBlux (1751716) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331355)

Depends on what you are doing. Some things GPU's are much more effecient. Say bitcoin mining. Best ratio of Mhash/Joule was .3 for the best intel processor, and 2.5 for some AMD cards. So even 3-4 years down the road there are other factors that may stop Intel. Switching speed for silicon have really met the limit, significantly higher speeds will require entirely new processes. Main memory is becoming faster and cache is getting bigger. In reality the designs have moved towards each other. RISC almost always has a moderately long pipeline (5-9 stages) with branch prediction (becuase almost noone goes back after writing code to eliminate or minimize pipeline stalls) and vector processors. CISC has an internal RISC instruction and an interpreter sub-assembly to reduce the number of transistors needed in the main Units.

Re:Speed versus complexity (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331361)

You know, we had the same argument with RISC versus CISC architecture. And we know who lost that one. Badly.

Wait, which one lost?
RISC lost because instructions took too much space and caused cache misses.
CISC lost because it couldn't perform -- practically every CISC processor designed today is a RISC processor + instruction set translation.
As is frequently the case between two pure ideas (that are both legitimate enough to be seriously considered long enough for a decent flame war), the winner is actually a clever but "impure" choice combining the merits of both.

And the reason for that is because the bandwidth outside the processor, the I/O, is so damnably slow compared to what's possible on the die itself. That's why the data transfers to and from the CPU are only about 1/30th or less the speed at which the CPU runs internally. The only logical course of action is to do as much as you can on each byte of data coming off the bus as you can.

Yes, which is why ARM, despite/because of being far from a true RISC, does so well: it speaks multiple instruction sets to fit more code in cache, and does some weird -- but elegantly implemented -- extra stuff to do more with data coming off the bus. (I'm thinking specifically of the inline barrel shifter, but there's a couple other, less drastic bits of cleverness I'm not thinking of ATM.) Plus there are SIMD extensions in wide use (just like x86 -- not an advantage, but not a disadvantage).

No reason a pure CISC instruction set from the 80s can't make the same performance, but only at the cost of added logic for interpreting instructions -- and more logic means more power.

Now this next bit is just silly, and a red herring to boot (since neither ARM nor x86 are typically "massively parallel" at all), but I'll answer it anyway:

Besides, look at Nvidia's GPU cores: They throw hundreds of cores onto the die, but it eats hundreds of watts as well. Massively parallel and simple instruction sets don't appear to translate into energy savings.

OK, now spec an x86 processor (with full modern SIMD instructions, naturally) that can do the operations typically done on such a GPU at the same speed. Or rather, spec a multi-processor machine or cluster with n CPUs, since that's what you'll need... Got it? Now multiply the TDP of that CPU by n, and compare. Oh, it looks like the massively parallel and simple instruction set does translate into energy savings for the same parallel-friendly workload.

Re:Speed versus complexity (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331379)

I think what people most often miss is why Intel gets dismissed as being not serious on power. This is all Intel's own fault.

Why does Intel have Laptop, Desktop, Server(Xeon), and Atom(Low Power) chips at all? There should only be one. There's no ECC on desktop and laptop desgins, thus preventing cheaper energy-efficient parts from being used in serious server configurations. So ARM is coming into this field http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/29/dell-test-deployment-arm-servers/ and http://www.engadget.com/2011/11/02/hp-and-calxedas-moonshot-arm-servers-will-bring-all-the-boys-to/ , as quoted here, 7-15watts per chip, vs Xeon's 69-135. When you can have 64 quad core CPU's in the same physical space space as, at most 8 Xeon's and power envelope as 4 Xeons. Intel is going to start seeing significant losses down the road.

It's not a question about chip cost, it's power usage. Data center power is a premium (eg 600$/mo for a 42U rack, if I can stick 128 CPU cores in that rack, my cost per CPU is now 4.68$/mo instead of 18.75/mo . The current going rate for virtualized CPU cores is between 8 cents an hour and 2.4$/hr. Amazon EC2 is 57.60$/mo per cpu core. I only get 11 CPU cores at amazon and none of the benefits of physical servers for my 600$/mo. The same 128 core count would cost 7372.8 at the lowest tier at Amazon EC2.

At this point it would make more sense to just use the ARM version of linux (I somehow doubt Microsoft is producing a Windows RT Server, but you never know) and run the exact same stuff that you'd normally run on the x86 servers. Minus the closed source software that has no ARM binaries.

Re:Speed versus complexity (4, Interesting)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331411)

Power-wise the argument is right. There's very little difference between the two instruction sets that makes one more power efficient than the other. However in practice the difference is that most Intel x86 family chips are optimized for high performance (desktop) where as most ARM chips are optimized for cost and efficiency (low power embedded systems, phones, etc). ARM probably has more experience in the chip design in making things smaller but as it ramps up into faster desktop or tablet oriented CPUs it is going to lose out more.

It really does come down to software ultimately I think. Software needs to do minimal work if it wants to save power; stop checking the net every minute to see if there's an update, put the CPU to sleep when not in use, use interrupts instead of polling, do more in a compiled low level language and less in a byte code interpreted language or scripting language, keep things small, and don't let Microsoft touch you. As soon as you start demanding the ability to run MS Office then you are giving up on power savings.

Re:Speed versus complexity (2)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331461)

You know, we had the same argument with RISC versus CISC architecture. And we know who lost that one.

CISC did. ARM is RISC, and there are far more ARM chips in use in the world than X86 chips.

Re:Speed versus complexity (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331463)

Risc won.

That Intel processor in your machine is not a CISC processor anymore. It merely takes ancient 8086 cisc instructions and internally translates them into RISC ones. THis is how the Pentium Pro became a true competitive beast to PowerPC in the 1990s. Sadly it also means you can't touch the hardware anymore if you write assembly as it simply translates them into risc.

Also the icore series can predict the next instruction before it is even loaded and use math tricks to do the work guessing with compiler optimizations without actually loading the instruction in to compensate the 1/30th. THis is how Intel is killing AMD as well which its own branch prediction can't accurately guess the next set of instructions and execute them before they even load. THis is why a lot of extra bandwidth shoes little performance gain unless it is a server with a large load.

Re:Speed versus complexity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331647)

Also the icore series can predict the next instruction before it is even loaded and use math tricks to do the work guessing with compiler optimizations without actually loading the instruction in to compensate the 1/30th. THis is how Intel is killing AMD as well which its own branch prediction can't accurately guess the next set of instructions and execute them before they even load. THis is why a lot of extra bandwidth shoes little performance gain unless it is a server with a large load.

That made no sense to me at all. How can it know what the next instruction will be? And how can that save time, because I would think that it would take time to check and make sure that it did what it was supposed to. And then what if it is wrong? Wouldn't it take over twice as long to correct itself?

Well... (5, Insightful)

QuietLagoon (813062) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331163)

What did you expect him to say... that an Intel product was not suitable for the mobile marketplace? That would have been career suicide for him. He is singing from the Intel songbook. Those songs may not be sung with what is best for the customer in mind.

Re:Well... (-1, Offtopic)

ILoveYouMyCleanPC (2662575) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331209)

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Re:Well... (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331223)

At least he settled one thing quite clearly. We need not hold off our purchases of a quad-core Android tablet like the new Nexus 7" tablets to be released soon, in hopes of getting a cool Intel Android tablet instead. Because they're not going Android on tablets anytime soon. He thinks tablets are for Windows. BWaaaa hahaha.

Re:Well... (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331495)

x86 != Windows. Intel do work on x86 Android support as well.

Re:Well... (1)

mewsenews (251487) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331345)

Exactly. Intel seems like a great company with intelligent engineers, but look how long it's taken for them to come even close to ATI or Radeon discrete graphics. They're not going to be in the cell phone game anytime soon.

And an intel based iphone? Not soon. Maybe in a few years. MAYBE. I'll believe it when I see it.

Re:Well... (1)

ganjadude (952775) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331549)

to be fair, intels bread and butter is their CPU, not the GPU. obviously someone who specializes in GPUs should have the edge

Re:Well... (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331595)

Given that Intel's mobile graphics strategy has simply been 'license the same stuff from PowerVR as most of the ARM licencees that don't have an in-house design' there doesn't seem to be anything obviously uncompetitive about it.

They aren't going to pull any design wins on the strength of their GPU; because it's the same damn GPU as a number of others; but they also aren't going to be put out in the cold by it...

Re:Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331373)

Yes, but just pointing that out doesn't refute what he's saying. The prosecutor doesn't tell the jury, "Of course the defense is going to say that, they're getting paid by this man!" I think that much is understood.

Re:Well... (1)

yuhong (1378501) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331545)

Funny that Intel once made the XScale ARM rpocessor.

No future?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331185)

This a day after an article stating that AMD, ARM, TI, etc... plan to work together??

Re: No future?? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331241)

In the very same article the author asks about the KRAIT ARM SOC at 22nm, which is on a process technology well ahead of the very same Intel smartphone chip he's flogging. At least the author was kind enough to put that after the remarks about others being unable to compete.

Re: No future?? (1)

greg1104 (461138) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331377)

So far this year Intel has basically finished off AMD from the high-end of the desktop CPU market, while advancing into the useful mobile desktop GPU market via their 22nm mobile Ivy Bridge HD 4000 chipset. There's nothing really competitive from them yet for under 15W of TDP, but it's obvious they intend to battle more on the mobile and SoC markets. Only new market to expand into at this point, and the only one still growing usefully. They're not there yet.

But it wasn't that long ago that Intel's integrated GPUs were the target of jokes too. The HD 4000 isn't great, but advocates of discrete GPUs aren't just laughing now. In smartphone and tablet land, the interesting question is not about this year's product, it's how long it will take the beast to retarget. I'd wager that the 14 nm shrink of Haswell [wikipedia.org] is where things will get interesting.

Re: No future?? (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331441)

Oh, what they've got is interesting now if they'd drop Windows like the bad habit it is and give us a decent Intel Android tablet. You'd think they'd leap at it - bigger tablets mean more room for a bigger battery.

It's not like Microsoft is holding back on the Tegra 3 WinRT tablets to give them a leg up.

Turn that boat around (5, Insightful)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331219)

Intel spent many years chasing performance with little thought of power draw.
Now they are putting all their engineering muscle into minimizing power requirements, while maintaining high performance.
I don't see any reason to think they won't succeed, and if they do, then ARM will end up a niche architecture.

Re:Turn that boat around (1)

Sir_Sri (199544) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331287)

They worried a lot about power draw and leekage current. They were just worried about somewhat arbitrary targets of 45, 65 and 130 W TDP. If you give their engineers and equally arbitrary 4.5W power envelope they'll work on that.

The thing for intel has always been that the easiest way to reduce power consumption is a die shrink. Which it is. If they can stay one node ahead of the competition and transistor for transistor match performance more or less they'll have a big advantage. And as you say, they've turned their attention to power consumption.

From my perspective Intel has been designing its CPU's for very different markets than mobile. Gaming, cheap, and servers. Gaming they've basically lost out to nvidia and ATI/AMD on, because there's no way to make a CPU do floating point the way a GPU does. There's probably a lot of stuff they can 'leave out' and just have it work fine in mobile. You could probably do 32 bit for mobile and ditch virtualization.

Re:Turn that boat around (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331481)

A niche that already sells more CPUs per year than Intel does. The high end computing market such as the desktop, smart phones, netbooks, tablets, those are just a fraction of the total CPUs sold. Every automobile has at least one CPU now, every home is going to have a CPU or two in the electric meter (even dumb ones), every microwave oven has one, every new appliance will have one, etc. Even your phone will have one front end CPU for the display and apps but probably a couple behind the scenes CPUs to do the real work like making phone calls, cleaning up audio quality, and managing the radios. The small CPU market is anything but a niche market.

Re:Turn that boat around (1)

10101001 10101001 (732688) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331567)

Just like how all those automakers will make a big turn around... Oh, right... No, I'm not so optimistic that Intel can have its cake and eat it too. So far, all Intel's efforts, while impressive by x86 standards, are horrible by ARM standards. The only chance I see Intel really having is the same that the big three in the US have--be willing to fork a new brand and release subcompacts with the full knowledge that (a) it might take years for it to catch on in any meaningful sense and (b) it'll probably never supplant your main line because way too many people want performance with little thought of power/gas draw. One could argue that's what Intel's Atom line is all about, but look above. I'd argue Intel's Atom line is tantamount to the whole hybrid/electric fad. It misses the point that the only way to strip out most the power draw is to significantly shrink the die usage/car weight. Once you've gotten to that inherent point of improved performance, only then do you look in ways to augment extant components to incorporate technology that doesn't increase the die usage/car weight while still decreasing the power draw. Intel sort of went that direction...but they're going to have to regress a lot further back than the Pentium M with its multiple instruction cores. :/

Re:Turn that boat around (1)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331737)

Already too late. Intel is about 2 decades late and it will take even them a long time to catch up. Also note that for devices running a Linux kernel, using ARM is not that much effort and is already well known to the developers, so these people do not need x86 for anything. The only people that would desperately need x86 with low power is Microsoft, because they have this basically x86-only monster of an OS, just look at all the limitations of Win8 on ARM.

He's mostly right (5, Insightful)

Erich (151) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331221)

All those scalar processors look the same. You can trade energy efficiency for performance and end up with a lower power processor that's a lot slower. When you push the performance, the architecture doesn't matter as much, because most of the energy is spent figuring out what to run and when to run it.

Compounding this fact, ARM isn't that great of an architecture. It's got variable length instructions, not enough registers, microcoded instructions, and a horrible, horrible virtual memory architecture.

The big thing that ARM has is the licensing model. ARM will give you just about everything you need for a decent applications SOC. Processor, bus, and now even things like GPU and memory controllers. Sprinkle in your own companies' special sauce, and you have a great product. All they ask is for a little bit of royalty money for every chip you sell. And since everyone is using pretty much the same ARM core, the tools and "ecosystem" is pretty good.

But there's not much of an advantage to the architecture... the advantage is all in the business model, where everyone can license it on the cheap and make a unique product out of it.

And nowadays, the CPU is becoming less important. It's everything around it -- graphics, video, audio, imaging, telecommunications -- is what makes the difference.

Re:He's mostly right (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331499)

Phoronix just did an article on 6 clustered Panda boards (Cortex A9) [phoronix.com] VS the other guys. It's worth a read.

Re:He's mostly right (5, Informative)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331505)

ARM has fixed length instructions. Thumb is a separate instruction set from ARM and is also a fixed size set. You can't easily interchange ARM and Thumb without making a function call. There is Thumb 2 that interchanges them more easily now. However the instruction set decoder for Thumb to ARM is so very very simple that it could even be a standard project in an undergrad CS class. Thumb really is for people who are willing to give up some performance to save space anyway. ARM has plenty of registers compared to Thumb. I think it has the sweet spot of 16 registers which is enough to not feel cramped but not so many that context switching or interrupts get in your way. ARM is not micro-coded in any model as far as I know, it is RISC and there's no reason to do any micro-coding (maybe in an FPU coprocessor?).

However it does have a goofy MMU at times, however this is treated as a separate coprocessor and is not intrinsic to the ARM (a different ARM system-on-chip will handle memory mapping and VM differently, it is not standardized).

Re:He's mostly right (1)

locketine (1101453) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331657)

"When you push the performance, the architecture doesn't matter as much, because most of the energy is spent figuring out what to run and when to run it."

I doubt that.

Hyperthreading, an Intel tech, significantly increases speed while not doing the same to power consumption or die size. Another Intel only tech, power boost [intel.com] allows them to run the processor at an unsustainable clock speed for a short period of time. There's also a concept of pipelining that allows multiple instructions from a single thread to run staggered as long as they won't collide in their use of a particular component within the CPU architecture and don't have hard inter-dependencies such as reading the result of the previous operation.

Basically, features specific to a CPU architecture very much impact execution performance and efficiency. I guess you could have been talking strictly about the instruction set but that's only a very small part of a CPU architecture.

Re:He's mostly right (1)

fermion (181285) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331695)

I see it this way. As the processor cycles and memory became cheaper, it became less economical to pay humans to write efficient code. It also frees up cycles that can drive all the eye candy in the modern OS. There is a limit to this as we saw with MS Vista Aero. People are not going to pay just for eye candy. The purpose of faster processor is to reduce the overall cost.

I think the ARM revolution is greater than the license issue. I think it has to do with minimizing cost of the total product that is going be interacted with using high level APIs and not directly using the hardware. The low level routines must be written once, and then distributed globally. I think this is kind of the approach used with the Intel microcode. The fact is on mobile devices cycles are not nearly as cheap as on desktops. There are real costs in term of batteries and opportunity costs in terms of heat.

What is interesting, when I think of the RISC losing the desktop and laptop, I think of the heat problem with the PowerPC. Just using the RISC processor does not mean efficiency. It must be designed in. We see this with phones. Not all pohones use the SOC efficiently. I think this is what we are going to determine the fate fo the MS Windows phone.

Re:He's mostly right (1)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331733)

And nowadays, the CPU is becoming less important. It's everything around it -- graphics, video, audio, imaging, telecommunications -- is what makes the difference.

The CPU gets important again when you start multiplying cores.

Nice post.

He's missing the point... (5, Insightful)

romanval (556418) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331233)

ARM works because 1) it's good enough while being 2) cheap enough. As far as I know, ARM is getting license royalties in the pennies per chip or SoC core using their design. For how much better Intel can make their low power x86 CPUs, its going to have to compete with dozens of foundries churning out millions of ARM devices when it comes to pricing...and thats where I see Intel having a hard time.

Re:He's missing the point... (2)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331431)

Actually, they answer that in the article. He claims that, even if Intel chips *are* more expensive, a) the price of the processor is pretty much negligible compared to the price of the full unit (particularly the screen), and b) the performance advantage is worth the cost.

And he kind of has a point. The Raspberry Pi has been described as "a smartphone minus the screen". It's $25-$35. A smartphone is in the range of $300-$600. Order of magnitude difference, and that's not because of the processor.

Re:He's missing the point... (2)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331523)

Yes, a smartphone without the screen, gsm radio, wcdma radio, bluetooth, wifi, gps, battery, case... You can buy a 700mhz smartphone for $100

for the money, bro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331253)

computers were made binary so these companies can make more money.
hardware is cheaper, faster, software is easier to develop, etc

despite what you been told. computers should of been ternary from the start,
now they tell us its too late because the ternary computers are incompatible with binary computers.

today hardware is still incredibly cheap to make, its main ingredient: sand
yet they sell it to us overpriced, half assed, so you have to come back and buy a newer
version, etc software isn't able to keep up with hardware. yet hardware still needs software to work

did I finally hear of a new console to come out in a year or so?
Technology is being held back for a reason

Re:for the money, bro (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331739)

Absolutely, bro, the aliens don't want to let our Government show us their Contrails. All the while They Live among us and harvest our intestinal juice In OUR SLEEP.

Definition of "efficient" (4, Insightful)

White Flame (1074973) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331279)

From Intel: Work done per watt
From ARM: System power draw small enough for handheld & long battery life

A year or two ago, I read a study that the most ops/watt were still done by high-end Intel processors sucking tons of power each. They did so much work so fast that the per-watt work done was still beyond the tiny-power-sipping ARMs that were relatively slow but still quite capable. Has this changed in the last generation or two of CPUs?

Re:Definition of "efficient" (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331347)

no it hasn't:

The efficiency was at 85 Mop/s per Watt compared to the Effimaß cluster at 30.79 Mop/s per Watt

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=phoronix_effimass_cluster&num=12

Re:Definition of "efficient" (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331369)

So now all we need is for them to come out with a mobile processor with 0.1 cores, and it will have all-day runtime. Is that how this conversion factor is supposed to work?

Re:Definition of "efficient" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331407)

It works this way: you use ARM mobile devices to access websites that use Intel/AMD for extra grunt.

Re:Definition of "efficient" (4, Insightful)

romanval (556418) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331367)

What matters is if you can comfortably keep the device in your bag/pocket and not have to recharge it more then once a day.

STRAW MAN ARGUMENT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331439)

The topic with the *architecture* was about the simple and clean elegance of ARM vs x86 with its tons of old shit.

And the topic with the *processors* was about efficiency.
ARM processors are 10 times as efficient as Intel ones. The architecture isn’t even mentioned in that.

(And again: Atom is cheating, by moving so much stuff to the north bridge, that the NB needs active cooling, while the Atom alone is very efficient but useless without th NB. If you look at the motherboard, it’s ridiculous: What looks like the NB (the smaller, passively cooled chip) is actually the Atom, and vice versa.)

Re:STRAW MAN ARGUMENT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331535)

ARM processors are 10 times as efficient as Intel ones.

Citation required. If nobody has come with a valid comparative study on performance, it's because is darn hard to characterize it. Then again, it all depends on how you define "efficient" and how you're going to measure it. If you measure efficiency in performance per dollar, or instructions per second, or work done per watt. But since you provide absolutely NOTHING, no factual data at all. I don't see why you'd be right.

Re:STRAW MAN ARGUMENT! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331547)

All the power savings are due to the simplicity (ie. lack of performance).

Re:STRAW MAN ARGUMENT! (1)

FrankSchwab (675585) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331669)

The topic with the "architecture" was about the simple and clean elegance of 680x0 vs x86 with its tons of old shit.

Oh, wait, am I in the wrong century?

Wait, wasn't this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331543)

just on Ars, verbatim? Sometimes I feel like I'm in an echo chamber.

ARM has some advantages (4, Insightful)

Required Snark (1702878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331579)

The ARMed camp has intrinsic advantages over INTEL.

They don't have all the legacy instruction set issues to deal with. Intel must be backward compatible with all previous versions. Remember, the 8080 subset is still alive and well in the INTEL architecture. This comes with a cost.

It's easier to move up from a lower power system to a higher power system. In this context power can be thought of as both electrical power consumption and as compute power. Moving down means something must be simplified/eliminated, and the backwards compatibility issues makes this much harder.

When it comes to mobile devices, ARM owns the market and has the network effect working for it. This is how INTEL kept a stranglehold on the PC market, but it works against them for mobile.

ARM is not monolithic in the same way as INTEL. Because of the license based IP model, there are many more variations of ARM chips then INTEL chips. The resources to make variations comes from the IP user base, not from ARM. A single company, no matter how dominant, cannot afford to support that many variants. If some of the versions fail, the cost is not born by ARM. If INTEL guesses wrong and makes a dud, they have to absorb the cost.

INTEL is no pushover, but I think ARM has the advantage.

Caveat lector (3, Interesting)

gweihir (88907) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331707)

Simply put, as Intel has no standing in the ARM market (and AMD has now), Intel has every motivation to distort the facts.

That said, there is indication that while x86 is not in principle more power-hungry than ARM,in practice, on silicon, it is today. The main reason is that it requires more chip area and more complex circuitry, which in practice leads to higher power consumption because of communication and signal distribution overheads and because complex circuits are far harder to optimize, not only for power consumption. Again, that does not mean that in principle it is infeasible. But note that larger chip area is also a strong argument against x86 if size matters.

There is also the fact that low-power ARM is more energy efficient than low-power x86 when you look at the market. So maybe this person is just saying that Intel messed up and failed to make good low-power x86 implementations while ARM did not. Looking back at power-disasters like the P4, this would be plausible as well. If, on the other hand, I look at CPUs like the AMD LX800 x86 offering, (e.g. used in the Alix boards), these are pretty power efficient and may even get into ARM ranges. They are pretty slow at full load though and have a large chip area.

So my impression is that the Intel person just said that while they do not have any offering comparable to ARM, it is their fault and not a fundamental problem of x86. I am unsure this is right, although I certainly agree that Intel does not have a leg to stand on in the market for power-efficient CPUs.

WTF ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331723)

Did anyone else see this from the point that Intel openly admits it can and could have reduced considerably the power consumption but has not yet done it because they just didn't care enough to do it ?

The cost to energy spent and all ramifications of energy spent Intel provided devices in U.S. and around the world today is astonishing.

And suddenly years after this guy walks around stating that well there is no reason technology they develop and use should have used that much energy, but they just didn't care enough doing anything over the years to that issue.

I think they might and actually should be made responsible of that if it's really true.

I see nothing (1)

epine (68316) | more than 2 years ago | (#40331725)

Me thinks Sgt Schultz doth protest too much. Since my first post here in the early days of URL speak-and-spell, I've propounded that the disadvantages of x86 to RISC in performance were almost entirely illusory (brazen bubbles in the fabric of reality now feeding the worms notwithstanding).

That said, on the power front, x86 bites. Possibly it bites like an undershot chihuahua in some small way that a billion dollars of doggy dentistry could adequately rectify—but it most certainly bites. Jumbles of instruction prefix opcodes and the inconsistent and partial nature of flag register updates spring to mind in bow-legged glory. A time machine erected in the lobby of an Intel design center with a small do-not-disturb sign hung above the door would sit unmolested by the stampede of pocket-protectors for not so long as a virgin newly arrived in 72 member frat-house of Perpetual Erection. (Turns out the prophet was a touch dyslexic. [snide]I've been reading God Is Not Great which I've privately subtitled Ridicule, Where Art Thou?. "Seventy-two virgins each? WTF? Do you think virgins grow on trees? It's a regrettable misprint. Sorry, you'll have to share—but not until you reach consensus on who goes first. I see nothing that prevents you from enjoying a satisfying afterlife all the same, so quit your bitching."[/snide]) The shrewdest Intel engineers will set the time machine to the late 1960s, enjoy the party for a year or two (virgins will be in short supply), before charting a cruise ship to California to doctor some 8008 family architectural specifications when no-one is looking.

I'm kind of looking forward to the success of the SETI program so we can conduct some proper black-box bake-offs. Let's boxgram up the C language specification along with the ARM and x86 instruction set specifications and warble them into subspace to a couple of competitive Ferengi monasteries (Shaolin temples of combinatoric reasoning), giving only the fabrication detail the the embodied processors are fabricated primarily in the element silicon, and that we really care about power consumption. Then run the generated code from the Xeno-compilers side by side on the chips where Sgt Schultz presently sees nothing to see which wins and by what margin.

The point I'm making is that over the years Intel has contributed an awful lot to the dentistry of GCC and other compilers to promulgate this mirage that there's nothing to see here.

Yet rare is the architecture so trammelled by men it doesn't freshen up nicely advantaged by a die shrink.

Tax is a Bad Word (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40331751)

Ergo, do not use the word 'Tax'.

Instead use the word ... err .... ummmm .... 'Benefit' !

Ah Ha !

Excellent !

Yes, use the word 'Benefit' as it is a good word.

So, Intel must fathom this revelation to re-engineer their 'group think', not to be confused with 'big think', Intel today has long ago moved away from 'big think', so they, i.e. CEO + CFO + (COB + B) and signifigant others [tady tady tady] need to brainstorm to get their collective heads around the word 'Benefit".

Mr. Jamie Dimon needs a tuitor to teach to him the word 'Benefit'. [This in Theater is an asside to the audiance.]

The first question our intreped 'thinkers' need to address is ... The cpu archetectures post-X86 have the 'Benefits' of [fill in the blank].

That little nutshell should get our Intreped Genius Thinkers Extrodinary moving like ... 4:58 pm [local time world wide] to the 'Mens' Waterclosets ... no more e-mails today blokes ... GaDay ... [Fill in the Blank] has left the building [good ... now real work can be accomplished].

Ha Ha Ha ... Haaa ~~~ ... [snicker snicker snicker] ... 8D

LoL

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