×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Display Makers To Use Quantum Dots For Efficiency and Color Depth

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the we'll-need-new-names-for-the-new-colors dept.

Displays 100

ArmageddonLord writes with this news from the IEEE Spectrum, reporting on display industry gathering Display Week: "Liquid crystal displays dominate today's big, bright world of color TVs. But they're inefficient and don't produce the vibrant, richly hued images of organic light-emitting diode (OLED) screens, which are expensive to make in large sizes. Now, a handful of start-up companies aim to improve the LCD by adding quantum dots, the light-emitting semiconductor nanocrystals that shine pure colors when excited by electric current or light. When integrated into the back of LCD panels, the quantum dots promise to cut power consumption in half while generating 50 percent more colors. Quantum-dot developer Nanosys says an LCD film it developed with 3M is now being tested, and a 17-inch notebook incorporating the technology should be on shelves by year's end."

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

100 comments

50% more colors! (1)

AlienIntelligence (1184493) | about 2 years ago | (#40343049)

Enjoy your phone in new psychedelic colors!

-AI

Re:50% more colors! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343085)

Around a year ago, I was mindlessly surfing the internet (as I often do) when I came across an enigmatic web page. The page, which looked like a warning from my web browser, informed me that I had a virus installed on my computer and that to fix it, I should install a strange anti-virus program that I'd never heard of (which I found peculiar considering the fact that I already had anti-virus software installed on my computer). Despite having reservations about installing it, I did so anyway (since it appeared to be a legitimate warning).

I cannot even fathom what I was thinking at that time. Soon after attempting to install the so-called anti-virus software, my desktop background image changed into a large red warning sign, warnings about malware began making appearances all over the screen, and a strange program I'd never seen before began nagging me to buy a program to remove the viruses. What should have been obvious previously then became clear to me: that software was a virus. Frustrated by my own stupidity, I began tossing objects around the room and cursing at no one in particular.

After I calmed down, I reluctantly took my computer to a local PC repair shop and steeled myself for the incoming fee. When I entered, I noticed that there were four men working there, and all of them seemed incredibly nice (the shop itself was clean and stylish, too). After I described the situation to them, they gave me a big smile (as if they'd seen and heard it all before), accepted the job, and told me that the computer would be working like new again in a few days. At the time, I was confident that their words held a great degree of truth to them.

The very next day, while I was using a local library's computer and browsing the internet, I came across a website dedicated to a certain piece of software. It claimed that it could fix up my PC and make it run like new again. I knew, right then, merely from viewing a single page on the website, that it was telling the truth. I cursed myself for not discovering this excellent piece of software before I had taken my PC to the PC repair shop. "It would've saved me money. Oh, well. I'm sure they'll get the job done just fine. I can always use this software in the future to conserve money." Those were my honest thoughts at the time.

Two days later, my phone rang after I returned home from work. I immediately was able to identify the number: it was the PC repair shop's phone number. Once I answered, something strange occurred; the one on the other end of the line spoke, in a small, tormented voice, "Return. Return. Return. Return. Return." No matter what I said to him, he would not stop repeating that one word. Unsettled by this odd occurrence, I traveled to the PC repair shop to find out exactly what happened.

Upon arriving inside the building, I looked upon the shop, which was a shadow of its former self, in shock. There were countless wires all over the floor, smashed computer parts scattered in every direction I looked, fallen shelves on the ground, desks flipped over on the ground, and, to make matters even worse, there was blood splattered all over the wall. Being the reasonable, upstanding, college-educated citizen that I was, I immediately concluded that the current state of the shop was due to none other than an employee's stress from work. I looked around a bit more, spotted three bodies sitting against the wall, and in the middle of the room, I spotted my computer. "Ah. There it is." Directly next to it was the shop's owner, sitting on the ground in the fetal position.

When I questioned him, he kept repeating a single thing again and again: "Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped! Cannot be stopped!" I could not get him to tell me what was wrong, but after a bit of pondering, I quickly figured out precisely what happened: they were unable to fix my computer like they had promised. Disgusted by their failure, I turned to the shop's owner (who I now noticed had a gun to his head), and spat in his general direction. I then turned my back to him as if I was attempting to say that nothing behind me was worth my attention, and said to him, "Pathetic. Absolutely, positively pathetic. I asked you to do a single thing for me, and yet you failed even at that. Were I you, I'd be disgusted by myself, and I'd probably even take my own life. Such a worthless existence isn't even worthy of receiving my gaze!"

After saying that, I left the shop with my computer as if absolutely nothing had occurred there. And, indeed, there was nothing in that shop that was worthy of my attention. Still understandably disgusted by their inability to fulfill the promise, I said to myself, "I'll have to take this into my own hands." After getting into my car to drive home, I heard a gun shot from inside the repair shop. Being that it originated from the worthless owner of that shop, I promptly decided to ignore it.

Once I returned home, I, filled to the brim with confidence, immediately installed the software that I'd found a few days ago: MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . The results were exactly what I expected, and yet, I was still absolutely in awe of MyCleanPC's [mycleanpc.com] wonderful performance. MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] removed every last virus from my computer in the span of a few seconds. I simply couldn't believe it; MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] accomplished in moments what "professionals" had failed to accomplish after days of work!

MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] is outstanding! My computer is running faster than ever! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] came through with flying colours where no one else could! MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] totally cleaned up my system, and increased my speed!

If you're having computer troubles, I highly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . Don't rely on worthless "professionals" to fix up your PC! Use MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] if you want your PC to be overclocking, if you want your gigabits to be zippin' and zoomin', and if you want your PC to be virus-free.

Even if you aren't having any visible problems with your PC, I still wholeheartedly recommend the use of MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] . You could still be infected by a virus that isn't directly visible to you, and MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will fix that right up. What do you have to lose? In addition to fixing any problems, MyCleanPC [mycleanpc.com] will, of course, speed up all of your gigabits until every component on your PC is overclocking like new!

MyCleanPC: For a Cleaner, Safer PC. [mycleanpc.com]

Re:50% more colors! (-1, Offtopic)

frank_carmody (1551463) | about 2 years ago | (#40343153)

Cool story bro.

Re:50% more colors! (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 2 years ago | (#40343785)

I must be getting old... I fucking hate pre-teen sudo-insults. Especially poorly thought out ones like yours.

Re:50% more colors! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40344453)

I must be getting old... I fucking hate pre-teen sudo-insults. Especially poorly thought out ones like yours.

I must be getting old. I fucking hate people who think that proper spelling is a waste of time (seriously, "sudo-insults" - are you really that dimwitted?), the overuse of "...", non-sentences and other bad grammar.

Beyond the aforementioned (which are clear signs of illiteracy), I particularly hate poorly thought-out "flames" like the one you posted.

I recommend that you just keep schtum next time.

Re:50% more colors! (1)

Jeremi (14640) | about 2 years ago | (#40344517)

I fucking hate pre-teen sudo-insults.

A: you're a loser!
B: I know you are, but what am I?
A: sudo you're a loser!
A: Oh God, you're right! I've wasted my life! <sob>

Re:50% more colors! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40345467)

I've wasted my life! <sob />

FTFY

Re:50% more colors! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40344037)

Cool story bro.

Cool meme bro.

Re:50% more colors! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343273)

so it's more than a million psychedelic colors? does it need a pci bus?

Re: microdots (1)

tfigment (2425764) | about 2 years ago | (#40343669)

This technology is nothing new. Its been used heavily since the sixties to bring out vivid colors in all manner of displays (its actually even older than traditional color tv displays). Sometimes they refer to the technology as microdots [wikipedia.org] . I'm not sure I need a LSD screen yet or one that uses PCB bus instead of a PCI bus one.

Static images (5, Interesting)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about 2 years ago | (#40343075)

Any word on burn-in, permanent image persistence, or uneven aging? That's my main concern with OLED and Plasma.

LCD can get image persistence if it shows the same image for very long periods of time (e.g. 24 hours) but on most displays it is only temporary.

I'd be interested to hear if quantum dot might have any of these issues.

Re:Static images (1)

moosehooey (953907) | about 2 years ago | (#40344775)

Since this is BEHIND the LCD, the light passes through it first. It will degrade evenly, and not be affected by the image displayed on the LCD.

Re:Static images (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40348351)

The film Nanosys is pitching is added to the backlight. The fundamental liquid crystal technology is not changed. So if that particular liquid crystal mode (or panel, if it is poorly tuned) was prone to those issues before the quantum dots, this won't fix it. Likewise, it shouldn't spontaneously cause those problems in a panel or technology that doesn't already have the problem.

Referring specifically to "uneven aging": most products do not have even thermal gradients over the area of the display. If the quantum dot technology reacts poorly to heat, you might get localized areas of low color gamut. However you would not see burn-in or changes in response time or other properties that are dependent on liquid crystal mode. Instead, you might see localized splotches in large areas of uniform color. This is purely hypothetical, I have no idea if quantum dots are prone to such issues. This is a known issue for OLED, though.

Posting anonymously because I'm a display industry insider.

Quantum dots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343083)

These light-emitting semiconductor nanocrystals shine pure colors when excited by electric current or light and promise rich, beautiful displays that would be inexpensive and easy to manufacture.

I guess "quantum" is the buzzword for hardware guys these days.

Oh well.

I won't get too hung up about it until I start seeing "quantum colon cleanse" on late night TV.

Re:Quantum dots? (5, Informative)

Scytheford (958819) | about 2 years ago | (#40343093)

Actually you're dead wrong. Quantum dots are A Thing. Here's how to make them in a basic lab: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNuoYm7Su4o [youtube.com]

Re:Quantum dots? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343129)

Quantum dots are A Thing.

I know.

But why call them "Quantum"?

Why not call them "Nanosomething? Or something else?

That's the point.

Re:Quantum dots? (5, Informative)

Scytheford (958819) | about 2 years ago | (#40343189)

Because the energy levels of the electrons are at quantum levels. They transition between these levels and emit light. This is an absolutely correct usage of the word "quantum". You are a foolish troll.

Re:Quantum dots? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343665)

So... what energy levels of electrons aren't at quantum levels?

They transition between these levels and emit light.

How is this different than anything that absorbs and releases photons as electrons move up and down these levels. In other words how is this differentiated between everything else that has atoms and electrons. Don't the electrons in neon raise quantum levels when neon is excited. So do I have quantum beer sign? Still seems to be a buzzword.

Re:Quantum dots? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40344013)

The term is related to Quantum Well and Quantum Wire. A quantum well is a system where particles (electrons) are confined to move in 2D by two very large potential barriers on either side of the well. It's generally one of the first systems studied in quantum mechanics. Quantum wires are like quantum wells except the potential barriers also exist in a second dimension, so that the particle is confined to move in 1D along the "wire". A quantum dot is a small box which is confined by potential barriers in all directions so that the electron can only exist within the extremely small dot.

Obviously quantum dots are going to be around the nm range so that they can actually confine the particles in any meaningful sense, but the point is the effects that QM predicts for that particular configuration. The size and shape of the dot allows us to precisely tweak the energy levels and wavefunction symmetries involved, something fairly particular to the "nano 3D potential barrier" system.

Re:Quantum dots? (1)

Pinky's Brain (1158667) | about 2 years ago | (#40344085)

In a gas discharge lamp the effect is actually elemental, not dependent on quantum confinement within a particle. You have an elemental discharge sign.

Re:Quantum dots? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343199)

Perhaps because they're semiconductor particles whose electronic properties are size-determined due to quantum confinement, rather than bulk material properties.

Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

jpapon (1877296) | about 2 years ago | (#40343091)

the light-emitting semiconductor nanocrystals that shine pure colors

What the hell is a pure color? Something that matches the frequency response of our cones? Fully saturated colors?

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343117)

It means that rather than mixing red green and blue to fake the color that they would be generating the actual frequency of the color. Theoretically that should also greatly increase the resolution of the display as well because instead of requiring three sources of light per pixel you would only require one.

Or at least that's my assumption anyways.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343163)

Not quite. How would you show purple? There's no frequency for purple, it's always red+blue.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40345011)

I guess you've never seen a ainbow?

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40345151)

I guess you've never seen a prism?

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (2)

jpapon (1877296) | about 2 years ago | (#40343177)

Color != Frequency. They always put that color chart under frequency, but it's rather misleading. Colors are the response of our three types of cones to a particular spectrum of light.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343291)

Uuuum, are there really people who were dumb enough to think that?
I thought that the frequency numbers are just there to show where in the spectrum the the cones are most sensitive.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (5, Informative)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#40343421)

Well, yes and no the chart is technically not wrong if you have a single frequency light source like a laser. The trouble is that most real world objects emit a spectrum of light. This chart [wikimedia.org] shows the cone response relative to frequency so the cone's response is an integral over the spectrum*sensitivity. The problem is that in all commonly current display technologies (CRT, LCD, LED, OLED, 3-chip DLP) you only have a fixed number of frequencies to work with. For example say you have red (600nm), green (540nm) and blue (440nm). Well, it turns out you can't actually produce all combinations with just three wavelengths as real world objects do with infinite wavelengths.

The reason for this if you look at the response chart is that the curves overlap, you can't simply decompose them into three components you can set individually. Any wavelength you send to stimulate the M cones also stimulate the S or L cones. And our vision is particularly good at picking up on those differences, it's a two-stage process like illustrated here [wikimedia.org] . Even if the mix in the SML cones is mostly right the Cg and Cb cells are extremely good at picking up on differences in the relative mix. Ideally you'd like more wavelengths or white light + a color wheel like used in single chip DLP, but it's not that easy and you need a signal with the extended information like xvYCC.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40347111)

Are you sure about this? While you can't create an arbitrary response with just a single frequency, different linear combinations of three single frequencies should be enough to create all possible responses. This is basic linear algebra, and it is equivalent to saying that you only need three linearly independent vectors to span a 3-dimensional space. The lum, Cg, Cb cells only process the *output* of the tricromatic cells, and so do not affect this picture. Of course, if you had tetracromatic vision, one would need four different colors to generate every response, and a normal color screen would be insufficient.

To be a bit more detailed, imagine some arbitrary spectrum a(f). This will create responses S_i = int a(f)*r_i(f) df, where i =1,2,3 indicates the three kinds of cone cells, and r_i(f) is the response of cone cell #i. On the other hand, if we have three fixed frequencies f_i with amplitudes b_i, the response to these will be S'_i = sum_j r_i(f_j)*b_j, where j = 1,2,3 indicates the three fixed frequencies. The latter can be written in matrix form as S' = R B. To achive the same response, we merely demand that S' = S => B = R^{-1} S. R^{-1} exists if the three frequencies were chosen so that they do not have the same response, which is trivial to fulfill. So no matter which response we want to create, we can always find a set of 3 amplitudes which create that response.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#40347797)

Are you sure about this? While you can't create an arbitrary response with just a single frequency, different linear combinations of three single frequencies should be enough to create all possible responses. This is basic linear algebra, and it is equivalent to saying that you only need three linearly independent vectors to span a 3-dimensional space.

That is true but your analysis is wrong, that is not the mathematical equivalent because we can only send light with positive intensity. Say you had f1 = [1,0,0], f2 = [0,1,1/2] and f3 = [0,0,1]. Sure with a linear combination of vectors you can express [0,1,0] but only using negative intensity which is impossible.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40405147)

I hadn''t thought about that, but I agree. I stand corrected. One example of this would be that it is impossible to use an RGB combination to only create a response in the L cones, and not the others.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 2 years ago | (#40348373)

I don't think that's quite right. If you had three sources of perfectly pure colours positioned at the very peaks of the responses of our rods and cones we could approximate very close to every colour based on the combination of the the three. Our eyes effectively only pick up 3 colours like a camera, monochrome with a response based on the curves above.

As such our interpretation of a pure cyan at say 500nm can be made up of appropriate peaks at 440nm, 530nm, and 590nm as the eye will simply integrate the result of what it sees to come to what we perceive as colour.

In that regard the only colours we really have difficulty approximating are the colours where the spectral response of our rods and cones no longer overlap and are away from the peaks we define. i.e. we can't create violet on a screen as there's no combination of 440, 530, and 590 that could be integrated to come up with the peak at 400nm.

This is best visualised with a CIE diagram. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cie_Chart_with_sRGB_gamut_by_spigget.png [wikipedia.org] As you could see drawing a triangle with points at the very edge of the horseshoe diagram of our visual range would encompass nearly all colours.

I'm wondering if our future is not in RGB displays but rather Red Yellow Green Cyan Blue Violet displays.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (3, Interesting)

jpapon (1877296) | about 2 years ago | (#40343195)

Oh, and even if what you were saying was true, it wouldn't really change the resolution at all. That's not how sampling works. If your display is 1024*768, you have that many pixels. Making it so each pixel can show any color wouldn't really increase the resolution. Your ability to resolve spatial changes in color is lower than in intensity. So adding "color spatial resolution" is not equivalent to adding "intensity spatial resolution" - this is why many encoding schemes use more bits for intensity than color information - it's more efficient.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343309)

Whoa. Settle down, cowboy. It's okay to let other people make interesting observations. It doesn't mean we love you any less.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343373)

If you're going to call somebody out for being wrong, you might want to actually do some research. Those 1024x768 pixels are made up of basically triple that in terms of red, green and blue sites that emit the actual light. If you replace those with ones that can handle the entire gamut you would need a third of them and you lose the overhead from having to have individual shutters on each one.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (2)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 2 years ago | (#40343721)

Which would then give you enough space to triple the resolution (which may be what the GGP was driving at) or, if not, would increase sharpness in any case. As demonstrated by the effectiveness of Cleartype, RGB subsampling does have an impact on perceived resolution, and RGB subpixel techniques can be applied to colour images as well as text.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

Dunbal (464142) | about 2 years ago | (#40343283)

the actual frequency of the color.

I guess you think the whole bit about primary colors is just made up stuff huh? So when you split up white light with a prism you get an almost infinite range of colors only 1nm apart instead of 7 very definite colors (Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo and Violet).

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343717)

GP is on crack. 400 colors still needs 400 subpixels, not 1, and nobody wants 400 subpixels in each pixel -- three's too few, but a half-dozen is already overkill.

You're on crack. Look at this [wikipedia.org] ; primaries only get you a subset of visible colors; for 3 primaries, and especially sRGB or NTSC primaries, it's a tiny subset. Go look at (not into) the beam of an Ar-ion laser operating at 497nm and tell me you can make that awe-inspiring cyan by mixing green and blue.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

zzyzyx (1382375) | about 2 years ago | (#40343293)

What's the frequency of magenta ?

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343385)

What's the RGB code for brown?

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40344089)

What's the RGB code for brown?

#964B00

or vagina.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40361857)

What's the RGB code for brown?

#964B00 or vagina.

Wrong hole dude.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343143)

A pure color is light with a narrow spectral bandwidth. It doesn't matter which color, just that there is ONLY that color.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

jpapon (1877296) | about 2 years ago | (#40343165)

What good is light with a narrow spectral bandwidth?? The point of a TV is to make images life-like. Light sources in real life have wide bandwidth, and objects generally reflect relatively large swaths of frequency. It would be a nightmare to produce images using lots of pixels with 1 nm bandwidth... it's much better to just choose 3 or 4 primaries and mix them... but mixing works just fine with wide bandwidth primaries.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343371)

That's not entirely true. What is correct is that our eyes only sense the response of the cones to the spectrum, so two spectra look the same if they produce the same response. That simplifies mixing colors to a point where the R, G, B primaries of a screen can be used to produce "arbitrary" colors even though they don't match the frequencies of the eye cone primaries at all. (Even though that does not actually allow to mix *any* color; it is limited by the maximum intensity of the screen primaries as well as the fact that they cannot produce *nergative* intensity, which would be needed to mix *any* color unless the screen primaries exactly match the cone primaries).

Screen primaries with narrow bandwidth are still useful. For example, there is one 3d image technology that uses narrow-banded primaries where L/R images are slightly shifted in frequency, with non-overlapping bands, and narrow-band filters in the L/R glasses. Don't know *how* narrow these bands are, though. The image is color-corrected by software to account for the frequency shift, which is again possible because the image looks the same as long as it produces the same response in the cones.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343623)

What good is light with a narrow spectral bandwidth?? The point of a TV is to make images life-like. Light sources in real life have wide bandwidth, and objects generally reflect relatively large swaths of frequency. It would be a nightmare to produce images using lots of pixels with 1 nm bandwidth... it's much better to just choose 3 or 4 primaries and mix them... but mixing works just fine with wide bandwidth primaries.

Good god, the ignorance up in this thread.

One word: Gamut. [wikipedia.org]

Mixing works much better with tight primaries. sRGB cannot correctly depict the selective yellow headlights of an old French car, the ubiquitous green LEDs of early '90s electronics, the GaN blue LEDs Shuji Nakamura cursed us with since, nor an LPS streetlight. Not what I'd call "just fine".

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343231)

I just thought "Do they mean, like, laser?"

Because as far as I know, quantum dots were developed to emit laser.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (2)

diamondmagic (877411) | about 2 years ago | (#40343465)

Fully saturated, i.e. a single wavelength, as a laser produces.

The color filters of LCD panels let through a narrow but not-single-wavelength bandwidth of color. This restricts the color gamut you can reproduce. As explained in TFA.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40344417)

pure, organic, free range colors!

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (2)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 2 years ago | (#40344425)

Single frequency peak. That is a pure colour. When you look at a typical incandescent light it is a broadband signal spread across the visible range and well into infrared (hence their inefficient at lighting a room despite being very efficient way of converting electrical energy into photons). For an LCD displaying pure red the peaks actually look rather fat around the red with minor peaks in the green and blue range as well as the backlight bleeding through the display. These imperfections is what makes the primary colours not pure and is also the reason the LCDs can't display black.

A fully saturated colour on your display is not a fully saturated colour. For comparison take a green LED and try and generate the same colour visually in photoshop. It can't be done on an LCD display. Really high end displays do come close in the red and blue areas though.

Pure colours are those emitted by single peak sources. Lasers and diodes are are good example as the energy of the photons emitted is related to the bandgap in the semiconductor and thus is quite well controlled and of a single frequency.

To visualise this on a graphic take a look at this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/60/Cie_Chart_with_sRGB_gamut_by_spigget.png/537px-Cie_Chart_with_sRGB_gamut_by_spigget.png [wikimedia.org] The CIE diagram displays the visual range of colours the human eye can perceive. It's stretched to represent our enhanced sensitivity to greens. Points along the outside edge of the diagram represent pure single frequency colours. The point with the temperatures in Kelvin represent black body sources like the sun which are broadband. Finally the sRGB triangle is formed by the three primary colours which match 99.9% of the LCDs on the market. As you can see our standard displays cover less than half of the visible range of colours.

I measured an OLED display with a spectrometer once. The three peaks were right at the edges of the horseshoe at 460nm, 530nm, and 620nm. Not perfect coverage for the human eye but still amazingly better than what most monitors can do.

Re:Yeah, I only like my colors 100% "pure" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40345295)

Maybe they will be able to display HDR images? That would be pretty awesome.

50% more colours? (1)

AAWood (918613) | about 2 years ago | (#40343099)

Soooo, any idea what they mean by "50% more colours"? Do these allow the screen to display a wider set of the visible spectrum than LCD screens? Do they allow the same set but at a higher bitrate? Do they simply display the desired colour more precisely? Is this "extra" in the range that consumer GPUs and OSes can display?

Re:50% more colours? (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 2 years ago | (#40343197)

The whole field of computing is built on three-primary color specification anyway. Either RGB, or HSV, or YUV, or some varient of them. Or CMYK, in which the K is really a fudge-factor used to account for real inks not behaving like mathematically ideal inks. So even if someone built a display of a wider gamut, good luck finding any content to use it. I suspect this is just marketing being allowed to write the press report.

Re:50% more colours? (1)

Jesus_666 (702802) | about 2 years ago | (#40343301)

But if they refer to your average TN display that often can't even display TrueColor without dithering, 50% more colors may essentially mean "it's not the trash your laptop probably uses".

Re:50% more colours? (2)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#40344129)

The whole field of computing is built on three-primary color specification anyway. Either RGB, or HSV, or YUV, or some varient of them. Or CMYK, in which the K is really a fudge-factor used to account for real inks not behaving like mathematically ideal inks. So even if someone built a display of a wider gamut, good luck finding any content to use it. I suspect this is just marketing being allowed to write the press report.

RGB has nothing to do with computing, but everything to do with the physics of light. Printing uses CMYK also because of the physics of light. The difference is RGB is when light is emmitted and CMYK when it is reflected. That is why blue and yellow paint make green, but blue and yellow light make magenta. With light, mixing colors is additive, with painting/printing, it is subtractive.

Re:50% more colours? (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 2 years ago | (#40344369)

RGB were the chosen wavelengths only because by mixing them in appropriate ratios it is possible to reproduce the perception of most colors to human vision. If there were any non-humans animals smart enough to judge, they'd tell you that all the colors on television look wrong. Humans see subjective colors, not spectrographs. To represent a color with precision would require storing the entire spectrum, which is impractical.

The mathematics of CMYK say that f you have full use of C, M and Y all absorbing you should get nothing reflecting at all - pure black. But real inks don't work quite like that, they reflect a little light even in regions of the spectrum the user would rather they didn't, so what you'd actually get is a murky blackish-brown. That's why the extra K: The additional black allows for the imperfect nature of ink to be corrected for.

Re:50% more colours? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40345717)

Blue and yellow makes white.

Re:50% more colours? (2)

Dunbal (464142) | about 2 years ago | (#40343295)

They mean "we need funding and investors, and 50% more sounds great without actually saying anything".

Re:50% more colours? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343353)

I demand 100% more colour before I'll consider investing!

Re:50% more colours? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343811)

Gamut.

Motherfucking gamut. [wikipedia.org]

I thought this was news for nerds. Why in hell am I the only one who seems to even know the goddamn word?

Re:50% more colours? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40344225)

Congratulations, you know one word the OP didn't. Feel free to throw yourself a little party.

Re:50% more colours? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#40344095)

It doesn't matter because 24 bit color produces more color variants than the human brain can actually distinguish. Having more color won't look any different.

Re:50% more colours? (1)

QQBoss (2527196) | about 2 years ago | (#40349445)

I have a buddy who used to teach ophthalmic surgery at Georgetown U. and did research in this area. He also did computer animation as a hobby (one that actually made him good money, to where I think his teaching later became the hobby). Wish I could locate one the papers, but most of his work was done pre-WWW and probably has never been put up. His info showed that most people can resolve 8 bits of red, 9 bits of green, and 8 bits of blue. That extra bit sucks from a memory usage point of view, though, and compressing it out only affects side-by-side comparisons for a huge portion of humanity, and even then not all that meaningfully.

But 24 bits is definitely not more than what the average human brain can distinguish.

Re:50% more colours? (1)

MagusSlurpy (592575) | about 2 years ago | (#40345785)

Soooo, any idea what they mean by "50% more colours"?

It means they let someone with a marketing degree write a blurb about technology.

The problem with quantum dots... (5, Funny)

outsider007 (115534) | about 2 years ago | (#40343101)

You won't know how many pixels are dead until you open the box.

Re:The problem with quantum dots... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343133)

I thought all LCD's were like that.

Re:The problem with quantum dots... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343663)

You won't know how many pixels are dead until you open the box.

I thought all LCD's were like that.

Schrödinger's cat quantum thought experiment, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

Re:The problem with quantum dots... (1)

I_am_Jack (1116205) | about 2 years ago | (#40343693)

Which raises the question that perhaps the quantum dot monitor will display the correct color only when you're not looking at it.

Sweet little lies... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40343505)

" beautiful displays that would be inexpensive and easy to manufacture."

But expensive to buy for sure. And will only be slightly cheaper when the next superior tech is at the door. Rinse and repeat...

Re:Sweet little lies... (2)

Jeremi (14640) | about 2 years ago | (#40344709)

But expensive to buy for sure. And will only be slightly cheaper when the next superior tech is at the door. Rinse and repeat...

Well, yes, that's how capitalism works. Someone invents something useful, and then they try to maximize the profit from their labor by selling it for as much as the market will bear. Eventually the price comes down due to competition. You can either pay top dollar for the new hotness now, or wait a while for the price to come down, your choice.

It's a feature. Note that you can buy a $99 LCD display at Walmart today that performs better in all respects than the $9,000 LCD display of the same size you could buy in 1995.

Wider Gamut, not usually an advantage for TV. (1)

guidryp (702488) | about 2 years ago | (#40344035)

LCD TVs already easily match Rec. 709 color primaries (similar to sRGB used in standard color destkop monitors).

Since TV signals and Blu Rays are all using this standard, using a non standard wider gamut emitter, just gets you unnatural colors.

If you like artifical, oversaturated hues, great, but if you want natural looking color this does nothing for you.

IIRC, LGs new 55" OLED TV will be corresponding to Rec. 709 color primaries, not the outlandish Neon of OLED smartphones.

For a TV, what you want is properly calibrated Rec. 709 color, not, nonsense about 50% more colors.

Re:Wider Gamut, not usually an advantage for TV. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40346715)

The more gamut, the better. Yes, a million lusers will revel in the amazing colors of their new TV's "vivid" (i.e.painfully oversaturated) mode, but you and I will be able to set it to "unenhanced" mode, and more importantly, market penetration will provide the chicken to a wider-gamut standard's egg.

Re:Wider Gamut, not usually an advantage for TV. (1)

Prune (557140) | about 2 years ago | (#40346829)

Uh, Rec. 709 is a small portion of the visible color gamut. It's represented by the triangle in this graph: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/CIExy1931_sRGB.svg [wikimedia.org] Note the area it covers of the overall visible gamut is maybe 50%.

Re:Wider Gamut, not usually an advantage for TV. (1)

guidryp (702488) | about 2 years ago | (#40347103)

Uh, Rec. 709 is a small portion of the visible color gamut. .

Uh, So?

Standards exist for a reason. Just about all available Media is produced for Rec. 709/sRGB.

Showing it with wider color primaries will not make it look more real, it will make it look more unnatural.

Wide gamut PC monitors were all the rage 3 or 4 years ago, until people started realizing it made it nearly impossible to get neutral color and the tide turned back to sRGB screens.

Gamut isn't simply a case of more == better. In the vast majority of cases, more == worse.

Re:Wider Gamut, not usually an advantage for TV. (1)

Prune (557140) | about 2 years ago | (#40362261)

Gamut is about being able to represent all colors that are perceptible in the real world. You're making an argument that because of immature technology, we should handicap our displays. It's the dumbest thing I've read in a long time on this site. The difficulties with neutral color are based on 1) poor calibration, and, more importantly, 2) insufficient quantization -- due to the extended gamut you need around 10 to 12-bit quantization _per channel_ to have sufficient precision. Considering most LCDs and OLEDs can't even do 8-bit and have to dither, the technology has a ways to go. Your argument basically reduces to this: we must use lower gamut since all implementations are shitty, whereas it should be--we should fix the implementation. You might as well say we shouldn't build faster airplanes because they'll fall apart, rather than that we should refine the technology in question.

Re:Wider Gamut, not usually an advantage for TV. (1)

guidryp (702488) | about 2 years ago | (#40363049)

No I am simply arguing for standards, instead of ill defined "wider" color gamut, that is simply, bigger number is better nonsense.

Unless you have media AND players, AND displays all working in lockstep, you get worse results, not better.

You need standards body to meet, create a new wider gamut standard and build new product at all stages to meet it.

Going it alone is pointless spec whoring.

Why do we need this? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#40344077)

Why do we need this? The power savings is a plus, but the human brain can only "see" and distinquish an estimated 10 million colors ( http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/JenniferLeong.shtml [hypertextbook.com] ) and current display technologiy produces 16.7M colors (24-bit True Color). Having a display show 24M colors (50% increase) won't look any different since current technology already exceeds our ability to percieve the differences.

Re:Why do we need this? (1)

Nyder (754090) | about 2 years ago | (#40344177)

Why do we need this? The power savings is a plus, but the human brain can only "see" and distinquish an estimated 10 million colors ( http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/JenniferLeong.shtml [hypertextbook.com] ) and current display technologiy produces 16.7M colors (24-bit True Color). Having a display show 24M colors (50% increase) won't look any different since current technology already exceeds our ability to percieve the differences.

You answered your own question. It's worth it for the Power Savings, IMO, the fact that it shows colors possibly better then we can see them is just the bonus.

Re:Why do we need this? (2)

foniksonik (573572) | about 2 years ago | (#40344351)

Apparently from all the other posts, the 16.7M colors we can get now do not overlap 100% with the 10M colors we can see. I believe this is called the Gamut range of colors being produced vs the Gamut we can see.

Supposedly these light emitters can create a Gamut of light frequencies (colors) that overlaps more, thus can produce more colors (that we can see).

Re:Why do we need this? (3, Interesting)

gstrickler (920733) | about 2 years ago | (#40344625)

Because the gamut [wikipedia.org] of 24-bit RGB doesn't cover the entire range of visible colors and intensities. While we can only distinguish ~ 8M colors, we can distinguish a huge range of intensities. 24-bit displays cover 16M colors AND intensities, so in this case, 16M is not > 8M because they're counting different things.

While current displays are adequate for most purposes, they do not display all of the colors we can see, nor all the intensities we can see. Typical displays only cover 45%-75% of the AdobeRGB (1998) color-space [wikipedia.org] , which itself is a subset of the visible gamut. Some (more expensive) displays cover a greater percentage of the visible range, but none cover the entire range.

Re:Why do we need this? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#40349157)

Because the gamut [wikipedia.org] of 24-bit RGB doesn't cover the entire range of visible colors and intensities. While we can only distinguish ~ 8M colors, we can distinguish a huge range of intensities. 24-bit displays cover 16M colors AND intensities, so in this case, 16M is not > 8M because they're counting different things.

While current displays are adequate for most purposes, they do not display all of the colors we can see, nor all the intensities we can see. Typical displays only cover 45%-75% of the AdobeRGB (1998) color-space [wikipedia.org] , which itself is a subset of the visible gamut. Some (more expensive) displays cover a greater percentage of the visible range, but none cover the entire range.

As stated in another post, the color problem you are referencing is one of physics -- producing the various wavelengths. What we see, however, is one of biology and the human brain cannot differentiate between similar wavelengths. Therefore, including all of them does not mean that we will see the image any better. Intensity is an issue, but the summary is talking about color, not intensity, although they are related.

The limiting factor in all of this is not going to be the production of the visible wavelengths. It is going to be the limitations of the human brain.

Re:Why do we need this? (1)

gstrickler (920733) | about 2 years ago | (#40351261)

Yes, the human eye and the brain are going to be the limits. And given the range of intensities (e.g. contrast) one can see at any given time, and the ability to discern continuous color gradients, it appears that we'll need somewhere between 24 and 36 bits driving displays with contrast ~5000:1, using at least 3 color narrow band color sources centered on the frequencies to which the eye cones respond, and capable of delivering more than 1000 lux [wikipedia.org] (the brightness of an overcast day) at the viewer's position to have displays that can adequately reproduce the color range we can see. The intensity range we can see is much larger than that, but we can't see all of it at once, so as long as the contrast is sufficient, we don't need full sunlight type brightness.

Re:Why do we need this? (1)

Prune (557140) | about 2 years ago | (#40346867)

This is one of the dumbest comments I've read on slashdot. You're confusing quantization with extent. The article is very obviously talking about covering a larger part of the visible color gamut. RGB is represented by the triangle in this graph: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/CIExy1931_sRGB.svg [wikimedia.org] You'll note it doesn't even cover 50% of visible colors. Most TVs and displays can't even reproduce the full RGB space. The 24-bit/16.7M merely refers to the number of colors and affects how smooth gradients are, and has nothing to do with the range of colors that can be reproduced.
For fuck's sake, I didn't expect this level of stupidity from someone with a sub-1M user ID!

Re:Why do we need this? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about 2 years ago | (#40349133)

This is one of the dumbest comments I've read on slashdot. You're confusing quantization with extent. The article is very obviously talking about covering a larger part of the visible color gamut. RGB is represented by the triangle in this graph: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/CIExy1931_sRGB.svg [wikimedia.org] You'll note it doesn't even cover 50% of visible colors. Most TVs and displays can't even reproduce the full RGB space. The 24-bit/16.7M merely refers to the number of colors and affects how smooth gradients are, and has nothing to do with the range of colors that can be reproduced.

For fuck's sake, I didn't expect this level of stupidity from someone with a sub-1M user ID!

Has nothing to do with how much the TV or screen can reproduce. It has everything to do with how well the brain can discriminate the various wavelengths. So while it is theoretically true that the technique may produce more colors, whatever that means exactly, if the human brain cannot discriminate between them, what good does it do?

This is not an issue of physics, but of biology, but then maybe I'm just to much of a dumb fuck to know what I'm talking about.

Re:Why do we need this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40350495)

This is one of the dumbest comments I've read on slashdot. You're confusing quantization with extent. The article is very obviously talking about covering a larger part of the visible color gamut. RGB is represented by the triangle in this graph: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/CIExy1931_sRGB.svg [wikimedia.org] You'll note it doesn't even cover 50% of visible colors. Most TVs and displays can't even reproduce the full RGB space. The 24-bit/16.7M merely refers to the number of colors and affects how smooth gradients are, and has nothing to do with the range of colors that can be reproduced.

For fuck's sake, I didn't expect this level of stupidity from someone with a sub-1M user ID!

Has nothing to do with how much the TV or screen can reproduce. It has everything to do with how well the brain can discriminate the various wavelengths. So while it is theoretically true that the technique may produce more colors, whatever that means exactly, if the human brain cannot discriminate between them, what good does it do?

This is not an issue of physics, but of biology, but then maybe I'm just to much of a dumb fuck to know what I'm talking about.

It seems likely.

The CIE xy chromaticity space (used in the image GP linked) is derived from the tristimulus model, so it already takes a fair chunk of the biology into account. The CIE u'v' space is a furtther development, explicitly selected for perceptual uniformity & linearity, thus covering the rest of the biology, and it shows the same damn thing -- sure, xy gives too much area to greens (which are outside the sRGB gamut), but OTOH it shortchanges purples (which are also outside sRGB); in a perceptual space, sRGB still obviously includes less than half the visible colors. See e.g. the picture at the bottom of this page. [displaycal...online.com]

Re:Why do we need this? (1)

Prune (557140) | about 2 years ago | (#40362187)

It _is_ an issue of biology. And that's exactly what the larger encompassing graph represents: the perceptual color space for humans. Humans can see all colors in that; RGB can only represent the colors in the triangle, and most monitors are a subset of the triangle. This has nothing to do with physics so I'm not sure why you brought physics into the discussion. Next time I recommend counting to 10 before letting an itchy Submit-clicking finger take action. It gives you time to save later embarrassment.

End of Screen Savers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40344653)

Displays made out of quantum dots will end the so-called screen savers.

All you have to do to prevent burn-in is occasionally look away from your screen so you are no longer observing it.

MOAR Pixels! (2)

Culture20 (968837) | about 2 years ago | (#40345109)

I don't care about colors or power savings. Get me better DPI or just more pixels overall.

Re:MOAR Pixels! (1)

Prune (557140) | about 2 years ago | (#40346891)

Troll much? RGB doesn't even cover 50% of colors visible to the human eye. It's represented by the triangle here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/CIExy1931_sRGB.svg [wikimedia.org] The larger superset is the full CIE XYZ color space visible to the human eye.

Re:MOAR Pixels! (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about 2 years ago | (#40347265)

That's nice. I personally have no need for more colors in the currently limited screen space. I need to have a bigger view, even if it drops to 16bit color.

Re:MOAR Pixels! (1)

Prune (557140) | about 2 years ago | (#40362145)

It's not the number of colors but the color gamut. You seem to lack reading comprehension. The issue is not quantization (bit depth) but the saturation that can be achieved. One is completely unrelated to the other.

Re:MOAR Pixels! (1)

Culture20 (968837) | about 2 years ago | (#40362319)

It's not the number of colors but the color gamut. You seem to lack reading comprehension. The issue is not quantization (bit depth) but the saturation that can be achieved. One is completely unrelated to the other.

And you seem to lack comprehension of simple concepts. I said I want pixels. Not color. Hell, give me monochrome, but give me 19200x12000.

Check for New Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...