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Iran Claims New Cyber Attack On Its Nuclear Plants, Blames US and Allies

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the probably-not-from-hezbollah dept.

Security 289

judgecorp writes "Iran has reported that its nuclear facilities are under a sustained cyber attack which it blames on the U.S., UK and Israel. America and Israel created Stuxnet, and have been accused of starting the Flame worm." And once a country admits that it's created such software, publicly deflecting such blame gets a lot harder.

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Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (5, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410533)

I'm pretty sure you've figured out by now that the U.S. and Israel are trying to sabotage your nuclear program. If the numerous targeted computer viruses didn't clue you in, you must have at least noticed the dead bodies of your nuclear scientists starting to pile up.

Don't you know there's a war on, son?

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (1)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410619)

Exactly... At this point, they should expect it. And so should we... Of course, the easiest way to disrupt our network communications is still a well placed physical disruption.

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410689)

You mean we should expect to be attacked by Iran?

okay.jpg

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410847)

You mean we should expect to be attacked by Iran?

okay.jpg

You really think civilian infrastructure is safe ? If the US can develop a software that targets vulnerabilities in industrial control systems, so can every other country. Mind you, what the US has done is an attack on a sovereign country. What do you think would happen if malwares started disrupting energy power plants, etc... in the US ?
The US has opened pandora's box, and there is no going back. You can't control malware the same way you can try to control nuclear weapons. Just wait and see.

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411205)

Civilian infrastructure has never been theoretically safe in any country anyway, but it has been more or less always been practically safe. How many Terror Alert warnings went out, post 9/11, claiming some ridiculous plot was afoot to contaminate the water supply or the like? Yet it didn't happen.

And no, every other country can't slap together a Stuxnet and blow up our power plants. I know the typical Slashdot reaction is to see someone do something novel with a computer and blow it off as a triviality that anyone could have done (see: iphone), but Stuxnet required some pretty serious resources not only to create, but very likely to deploy as well.

Oh, stop acting overloaded. (5, Funny)

Ostracus (1354233) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410707)

Of course, the easiest way to disrupt our network communications is still a well placed physical disruption.

It's called a Slashdotting. Pioneered it, back in the day.

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (5, Funny)

trum4n (982031) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410719)

Why don't they just unplug their modems?

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (4, Funny)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410859)

What? How else are they going to receive the nuclear weapons plans like W80 stolen from the USA by the Chinese translated into Persian by the Pakistanis?

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410755)

I'm pretty sure you've figured out by now that the U.S. and Israel are trying to sabotage your nuclear program. If the numerous targeted computer viruses didn't clue you in, you must have at least noticed the dead bodies of your nuclear scientists starting to pile up.

I wonder how many of those scientists came to untimely ends due to the actions of our spies, and how many of them disappeared due to the actions of their spies.

Now that the existence of these cyberweapons is out in the open, every time something actually goes wrong with Iran's programme, the first thing they'll do is assume sabotage and find someone to punish, even if it was just a routine fuckup. For bonus points, maybe in their paranoia, the Iranian secret police take out the very people who could have helped fix the bug.

In turn, this makes their remaining engineers even more paranoid -- about each other, as much as they're afraid of both our spies and their own secret police.

What makes these new targeted attacks intriguing is that while some of them are almost certainly aimed at Iran, some may not be. But that doesn't matter. It's like kids releasing four skunks into a high school as a senior prank -- after having spraypainted "1", "2", "3", and "5" on their backs.

The more paranoid the organization, the more likely it is to tear itself apart finding a nonexistent saboteur. Looks like we might be due for another big old storm of chaos. (As a Westerner, I certainly hope so :)

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (2)

Zaphod The 42nd (1205578) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411285)

When playing Team Fortress Classic, I always felt my job as spy was complete when I'd sneak into the enemy base and see them all shooting each other out of paranoia that they were all spies. :)

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411307)

"another big old storm of chaos"

Dude, you've been watching the new My Little Pony cartoons. Second season, first episode. The character of Discord says the exact same thing. I have a five year old--I know these things by heart.

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (1)

operagost (62405) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410905)

Now hold on... what nuclear scientists died here? A ballistic missile, capable of carrying a nuclear payload, exploded during its test last year. This was blamed on Stuxnet with no proof. That's the closest I can come to your "dead bodies... pile up".

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411033)

Google Iran nuclear scientist assassinated, it was on CNN and everything.

Too lazy to log in.

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411195)

Google Iran nuclear scientist assassinated, it was on CNN and everything.

Too lazy to log in.

Well, now, it MUST be true. :-P

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411079)

Let me google that for you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/11/bomb-kills-iranian-nuclear-scientist

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (4, Funny)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410915)

I dont believe it. Our government has denied all involvement, and thats good enough for me.

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411499)

Our government has denied all involvement

Hardly, Obama can't leak details fast enough if it makes him look studly.

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410961)

So you would be as dismissive if Iran bombed the Pentagon or the Whitehouse?

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (3, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411105)

So you would be as dismissive if Iran bombed the Pentagon or the Whitehouse?

I don't know about dismissive, but since the USA has announced that cyberwarfare is just warfare and thus we may retaliate conventionally against cyber attackers, and the USA is responsible for a cyberattack (OK look, I'm just using the vernacular) against Iran, that's a tacit admittance that we are unofficially at war with Iran... so if they bombed the Pentagon or the Whitehouse, it would be striking back. (and suicidal...)

Re:Oh, stop acting surprised, Iran (3, Insightful)

Stickerboy (61554) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411349)

It's called proportionate response. Iran pretends that its "peaceful" nuclear program isn't producing weapons-grade materiel, and the US is doing what it can to make sure that it doesn't produce weapons-grade materiel.

But if Iran were to do something as colossally stupid as bombing the Pentagon or White House, no one would be dismissive. In fact, it would likely unite the people of the United States in conducting a protracted hot war that would send Iran back into the Stone Ages. Think Pearl Harbor and the response. Or 9/11 and what's happened to the leadership of al Qaeda.

In Other News: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411087)

East Coast blames nearby star for diurnal lighting phenomenon and recent heat wave.

ACs admit to cyber-espionage. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410535)

No one "officially" has admitted to Flames, Stuxnet, or otherwise. It's always some anonymous source, or former (apparently the current ones are too busy to give interviews) official.

Re:ACs admit to cyber-espionage. (2)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410639)

You mean that guy who has been to Roswell? I know him! ;)

Re:ACs admit to cyber-espionage. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410721)

you sure?

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/06/confirmed-us-israel-created-stuxnet-lost-control-of-it/?utm_source=Ars+Technica+Newsletter&utm_campaign=8d7f11ba51-September_02_2011_Newsletter&utm_medium=email

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/01/world/middleeast/obama-ordered-wave-of-cyberattacks-against-iran.html?_r=2

Re:ACs admit to cyber-espionage. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410881)

God, will people even read the articles they try to use as proof? In BOTH articles, it's stated that the articles is based on Sanger's Book. They are using the book as "proof of confirmation" in which case I can easily argue that it is NOT. Confirmation = Confirmation of the accused or hard proof. In both respects, the book is not either of these.

Referencing a book by the person who first made the accusation, Confirmation from the person who first made the accusation? I think not...

Blame someone else for incompetance (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410539)

Nuclear reactors should be secure through not using Windows and not connecting to the Internet. Anything short of that is doing it wrong.

Case in point, the CANDU reactors in Canada run QNX4 (QNX2?) for their control systems are are not Internet-connected, so there's really nothing to hack.

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (2, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410657)

I do wonder how the heck they keep getting attacked. It sound like some people I know who "Keep getting all thses virus things no matter what I do!" (Like click accept all the time)

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410715)

"Your computer could be at risk from infidels! Click here for Jihad!"

Gets em every time.

Re:"Your computer could be at risk from infidels! (1)

DocSavage64109 (799754) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411055)

+1 It's sad how effective social engineering is. I wouldn't put it past psyops [allpsych.com] to do something similar.

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411129)

Where is that clean PC guy when we need him?

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (4, Insightful)

Hatta (162192) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410767)

You think the US government couldn't buy the source to QNX, find an exploit, and embed that in a trojan that they convince someone to sneakernet across the air gap?

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410991)

Even this would be extremely complicated, because there is nothing like autorun, and the systems never get re-booted to re-load firmware/software. It's effectively a multi-node locked down embedded system that's always on. I don't see how even with sneakernet that would be easy to hack. It's not designed or intended to ever need to run new code!

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410835)

I can absolutely assure you that the PLCs running the CANDU reactors were programmed with a computer running Windows. QNX is the outermost layer running supervisory processes, user facing components, data collection, etc. That it can't be infected by the various iterations of Stuxnet does not protect the reactors. Neither would not being internet connected.

Your not knowing this, could be part of why the engineers designing nuclear plants and their attendant support systems, don't call you for input.

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411059)

1) QNX development can be done on QNX, Windows or Linux, and QNX and Linux are by far the most popular choices because compilation time is much less and *NIX development on a Windows machine is just nasty.

2) Having no way to run new software DOES make a system secure.

3) Even if there are Internet-connected Windows machines somewhere, they still don't need to link to anything related to the actual reactors. They might be involved with IT/HR/office operations, and sure - that can be hacked, but that doesn't mean an attacker can do anything to actually affect the reactors.

It's not freaking rocket science. If there is no way to execute new code, there is no way to execute new code.

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411347)

Place a "solar flare generating device" near the system and target individual bits to flip using solar radiation......

Even if you *think* there's no way to execute code, there's *still* a way to execute new code.

Re:Blame someone else for incompetance (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411363)

1) You are the dumbest person alive.
2) No it doesn't.
3) That doesn't matter at all.

Here is how it works, try to pay attention. A device called a PLC is connected to a device called a drive via copper wires. The drive is connected to a motor, which is connected to a gearbox, which spins the centrifuge. The drive varies the frequency of the electricity going to the motor and thereby varies the speed at which the motor turns (and thus the centrifuge). The PLC contains ladder logic which governs the speed reference it sends to the drive. So, the PLC controls the speed at which the centrifuge turns.

As it comes out of the box, the PLC contains no ladder logic at all. In order to control anything, one must load ladder logic into it. Now, here is where your stupidity prevents you from being qualified to jabber on about this: you can't load ladder logic into the PLC using QNX. You can''t develop the ladders on QNX. QNX cannot communicate with the PLC in any way at all except to read and write to its data tables using interfaces defined by the PLC vendor. In Stuxnet's case that was Siemens.

The payload of Stuxnet was delivered during the above ladder logic development phase. They'd have sent a destructive speed reference to the centrifuge drives whether then supervisory software was QNX, or Wonderware on Windows, or Citect, or whatever else.

This is war, so shut up! (-1, Troll)

gox (1595435) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410561)

Iran is terrorist, that's why.

Oh noes (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410589)

Your nuclear weapons program for enriching uranium was fucked up because of a computer virus.

You know what DOESN'T need highly enriched uranium? CANDU and Throrium reactors. Gee, I wonder why Iran isn't interested in those, the only difference is that they can't be used to make nuclear weapons...

Re:Oh noes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410819)

Because Canada won't sell them CANDU and Iran likely doesn't want to bet the farm on an emerging technology (thorium).

Re:Oh noes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411009)

Iran likely doesn't want to bet the farm on an emerging technology (thorium).

Yes. "emerging technology". These things weren't designed in the early 1960s or anything [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Oh noes (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411127)

Indeed, but how about getting a few operational and on the grid? Why would any state that has no nuclear program be the first when there's proven technology available? And given that the list of states that would actually work with Iran even prior to their inclusion in the 'Axis of Evil' is very short, who do you propose would help them to develop it?

Re:Oh noes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411193)

That must have been around the same time as the US was designing those space shuttles that are routinely launching dozens of times a day now ...

Re:Oh noes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410951)

CANDU reactors produce plutonium.

Re:Oh noes (5, Interesting)

_merlin (160982) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411005)

Well, it's been shown that, at the least, CANDU reactors can be modified to produce weapons-grade plutonium. India got the plutonium for the bomb used in Operation Smiling Buddha from a modified CANDU reactor.

Re:Oh noes (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411457)

Thorium reactors absolutely do require uranium. Thorium is not a fissile material. Thorium is a stock material that is bread in to uranium during the course of reactor operation. The actual reactions are uranium, and said reactions create more uranium, which is in turn fissioned, etc etc. The idea is you feed more thorium in to the reactor "soup" and the reaction continues.

The problems with thorium reactors that have not been solved:

1. The reactor has to be primed with fissile uranium. They can not self start with thorium alone.

2. The reactor soup mentioned above is a very complex reaction with dozens of intermediate elements. Imagine having a soup of liquid metal with dozens of elements that are all constantly transmuting in to other elements. Nobody has come up with a suitable "soup" that will have desirable properties in any sort of long term use scenario. Either too much gas, or the mix solidifies, or turns in to something that eats through the walls of the reactor vessel, or the reaction gets poisened and stalls.

3. Even if a good "soup" is developed, the reactor material does need to be processed and refined from time to time as undesirable bulk products build up. I dont' see how processing tons of hot molten radioactive material can be anything but nasty and environmentally hazardous.

Admits? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410603)

Where has once have the government admit they created it? Both links are just basically from David Sanger and his book where the first link is an article by him and the 2nd link an adaptation of the story-line from his book (which they state at the very bottom of the article).

I'd hardly call that the government admitting it when it's more like an accusation from someone with possible inside sources. Nowhere in any of these articles has there even been a comment made by the US government. If you are gonna report on something, at least put the correct viewpoint on it. All these "confirmation" articles are just articles respinning the story made by Sanger.

As for it's validity, could be true, could be false. But i definitely don't like the way it's being told. It's more akin to being told a fantasy novel then an actual news report. They don't even have quotes from their sources stated specifically. The entire story is told in a mix of imagination and (possible) facts which aren't clear.

Re:Admits? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410973)

Perhaps you should open your eyes a bit [washingtonpost.com] before going off on rants?

Re:Admits? (3, Insightful)

MarkGriz (520778) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411493)

A story in the Washington Post is hardly an admission by the country. Not saying they didn't do it, in all likelihood they did.
But calling it an admission is just incorrect.

Re:Admits? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410993)

To make a minor correction, the links i'm talking about is in the previous slashdot post which talks about the original article and it's "confirmation" article in which this article is referencing to.

Re:Admits? (2)

FurtiveGlancer (1274746) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411283)

The verity and verifiability of the accusations is immaterial; the "I want to believe" factor is just too good to pass up!

Disgraceful (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410607)

It's asisine that everybody keeps touting this unsourced leak as proof of US and Israeli involvement in creating Stuxnet and Flame. The fact that it's US AND Israel really hurts the claim's credibility as well. Both governments are capable of creating the virus unilaterally, why would they do it together?

What makes more sense, is someone wants to associate US and Israel for political reasons.

Re:Disgraceful (4, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410711)

Israel spies on the US a hell of a lot [alternet.org] . So on one hand it seems like a Faustian bargain for the NSA or CIA to get in bed with Mossad.

And the UK! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410609)

Iran is such a great country, I love how they act like my country is still important.

Bad Idea? (1, Insightful)

Gabrill (556503) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410615)

Isn't kind of a bad idea to deliberately mess up controlling computers in a nuclear plant?

I get that Iran has a deserved reputation for abusing their neighbors, but if the US causes a meltdown, then we're in the wrong.

Re:Bad Idea? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410649)

Depends on your view...

Most of the US would consider a meltdown over there, much better then a bomb over here...

(note: I'm not saying that opinion is morally correct, just prevalent and in some way justifiable)

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

somarilnos (2532726) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411373)

Precedent [wikipedia.org] has shown that you are 100% correct [wikipedia.org] , even when the alternative is not a bomb here, but a loss of lives in military conflict there.

However, given that Stuxnet and Flame both clearly were successfully deployed, infiltrated the relevant systems, and didn't cause a meltdown, is a pretty good indication that they weren't intended to cause a meltdown. Given the nature of what they're working with, I'd say it's likely (although not a guarantee) that they were coded in a way to not affect failsafe systems.

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

thoughtsatthemoment (1687848) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411407)

You better hope not. If there was a meltdown there caused by a US virus, you could image what might happen over here.

Re:Bad Idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410727)

I get that Iran has a deserved reputation for abusing their neighbours

Say what? Which neighbours would that be?

You might want to give some consideration to the term 'abusing' prior to answering.

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

Dachannien (617929) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410795)

Lebanon.

Re:Bad Idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410911)

How? By funding an organization largely supported by the population to defend against an abusive, pariah state (Israel)?

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

Zocalo (252965) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410997)

Um. No. Iran and Lebanon don't even share a border and in any case it would be Syria (who is neighbors with Lebanon) that has the reputation for often quite blatant interference in Lebanese affairs.

Re:Bad Idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411421)

Syria... lol... when we invaded Iraq, they were all like, hands up... our WMDs are over there, here take them.

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410743)

"They", whoever "they" are, are trying to mess with the systems used to enrich uranium for bombs; centrifuges and the like.

And "they" cannot resist the opportunity to stick a weed up Iran's ass, whatever the consequences.

Re:Bad Idea? (0)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410745)

Thats what people seem to forget.
You have computers in a nuclear plant been messed with.
This opens the legal door for anyone one to really do anything they like to any system in any country *if* they feel like it.
Water, power, billing, banking...any factory - its all nice and 'legal' now.
As for "reputation" look what parts of South America, the UK, South Africa, East Germany, the Soviet Union, the USA did with their 'freedom fighters' special forces and 'revolutionaries' around the world.

Re:Bad Idea? (5, Insightful)

Ostracus (1354233) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410747)

How does one "meltdown" a centrifuge?

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

lostsoulz (1631651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410869)

+1 Internet :-)

Re:Bad Idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411397)

You hack the AC in the building, set it to heating and wait until the centrifuge melts down without anyone noticing.

Re:Bad Idea? (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410765)

Isn't kind of a bad idea to deliberately mess up controlling computers in a nuclear plant?

The only thing deliberately messed up were the speed controllers on the centrifuges which were enriching Uranium, and the 'messed up' meant that the speed would very subtly oscillate in speed to mess up the enrichment process.

There is no part of that which could cause a meltdown.

Re:Bad Idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410789)

Nuclear accident there > bomb going off elsewhere

Re:Bad Idea? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410857)

we're in the wrong

LOL. What are you, 15? The USA and Israel have done a lot worse than melt down a nuke plant or two. We've overthrown democratic governments, assassinated thousands of people without trial and violently murdered countless bystanders. All in the name of protecting a bunch of selfish brats who think "god" wants them to live in a specific piece of the desert.

Intellectually speaking, I think you will find that the world's events are a lot easier to understand if you stop thinking of the US as the "good guys". We're not. We're simply out to push our political and religious values on the rest of the world by whatever means are necessary.

Re:Bad Idea? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410865)

The U.S. was in the wrong a long time ago.

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

rnaiguy (1304181) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410921)

This is not a nuclear power plant. It is a uranium enrichment facility. The amount of enriched uranium involved in a given accident would be small, and insufficient to cause a catastrophic meltdown.

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410981)

That depends on how you 'mess with it', and, to be Clintonian, what 'it' is.

These viruses have been very narrowly targeted to deliver specific payloads to specific field devices in specific configurations. Stuxnet didn't 'mess with' controlling computers in nuclear plants, it caused the controlling PLCs to overspeed drives in centrifuges. Large centrifuges are housed in building designed to contain them if they fly apart. So other than the risk of contaminating the building and killing anyone inside with flying debris, there isn't much to worry about.

Certainly no possibility of a meltdown.

Re:Bad Idea? (2)

garbut (1990152) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411291)

I get that Iran has a deserved reputation for abusing their neighbors

Please explain.

...then we're in the wrong.

Thousands of dead Americans and counting, a million dead Iraqis and counting, how are we not already in the wrong?

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

MachineShedFred (621896) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411403)

You do realize there is lots of machinery at nuclear facilities that aren't containing an active nuclear criticality, right?

Re:Bad Idea? (1)

davidannis (939047) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411501)

The computers that they are messing with (stuxnet) control centrifuges in enrichment facilities, not in a reactor and flame messes with nothing - it is just an intelligence gathering device as far as I can tell. . Reactors can melt down, enrichment plants don't. You may have a release of radioactivity as a result but when they test their first bomb that radioactivity would be released anyway.

from who? (0)

slashmydots (2189826) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410631)

Publicly deflecting such blame gets a lot harder...from who, Iran? Who would be in support of Iran developing nukes and get all up in a thing about this? Al Qaeda? Ohhh nooo, we used "dirty" tactics using sneaky viruses to shut them down. You know what else is dirty? Nukes! Especially crazy psychotic dumbasses building them like North Korea and Iran.

Re:from who? (1)

Riceballsan (816702) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410741)

Bottom line is, it isn't the way to go in war. Fair war, is to offer an ultimatum (IE stop develoment of nukes or we will take action). Send in drones or whatever etc... Claiming we are at peace, then sending in random cyber attacks on nuklear systems, which for all we know could backfire and say... set off a nuclear reaction killing who knows how many scientists and civilians. Really if we do it the backdoor way, how is that tactic any more moral than say, flying a plane into a large populated building? The methods matter, especially when we are talking countries in which the public is brainwashed, and the governments are looking for any form of propoganda to convince them that america is evil. When we give them solid evidence we are evil, we are essentially creating terrorists on their side.

Re:from who? (1)

thuf1rhawat (2647299) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410763)

Nukes! Especially crazy psychotic dumbasses building them like North Korea and Iran.

Crazy Psychotic dumbasses building them like USA, UK, France, India, pakistan, Russia, China - If you are responsible for builiding them, then you're a crazy psychotic dumbass regardless of your Country of Origin, citizenship, gender or political beleifs.

Re:from who? (2)

operagost (62405) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411043)

The USA hasn't built a new warhead since the Cold War ended, and its current arsenal is about 25% of its peak size.

Re:from who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411013)

You know what else is dirty? Nukes!

We used those too! Ha ha!

Meh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410637)

Leaders of all countries involved are small-dicked faggets. Lower and middle class citizens are okay and not at odds with each other. But are still faggets as long as they let little-dicked short men wage wars for profit and control.

Verdants are behind this. You'll see soon. Don't believe the bullshit. They created the situation they plan to "bail you out" of.

Frosty Piss (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410693)

Drink up boys!

Captcha = MyCleanPC

Israeli research teams (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410725)

Most all of the major security products (DLP, web proxy, ec) I have dealt with are backline built and supported by teams out of Israel. Why would be a great questions.

Oh NO not US (1)

AbrasiveCat (999190) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410787)

After a while Iran gets to blame the US and Israel for every thing that goes wrong, whether they did it or not. Poor programmer, oh no not me, someone else caused that problem.

(On the other hand, in Iran's eyes, they may think the US has declared war.)

Re:Oh NO not US (2)

gstoddart (321705) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410935)

On the other hand, in Iran's eyes, they may think the US has declared war.

It's a hostile act. They've admitted to both Flame and Stuxnet I believe. Like it or not, the US has fired the first shots here, and have opened the door for retaliation. You don't get to do it, admit to it, and then just say "just kidding".

Begun, the clone war has.

Re:Oh NO not US (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411435)

And this is different from what was happening previously exactly how?

As far as war, both sides have been committing acts of war against each other for decades.

Must be great working as Iran nuclear scientist (1)

140Mandak262Jamuna (970587) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410831)

Think about it. Iranian govt coddles you and makes a national hero out of you. Unlimited clandestine budget. Bask in glory if things go well. When things go bad you have a ready made credible scape goat available.

Re:Must be great working as Iran nuclear scientist (2)

SirGarlon (845873) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410965)

I'm sure it's great, until an unidentified and presumably foreign person assassinates you on the way to work [time.com] .

Why are Iranian nuclear plants online? (1)

Karmashock (2415832) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410833)

I don't even grasp why you'd do that.

That said, I believe the first wave of worms were spread around locally... That is, someone physically connected to machines inside their operations and intentionally spread the infection. There are more then a few Iranians that don't want the Ayatollah to have a bomb.

Acquire both Iran & North Korea (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40410861)

Step 1: Reintroduce the draft & begin mandatory mil service for persons aged 18-50.
Step 2: Train...
Step 3: Invade Iran & North Korea simultaneously
Step 4: Once both nations have been acquired, fly our flag over each and begin the process of transforming both nations into a larger America, like we should've done with Iraq instead of any pull out.

Least Secure Computers Ever! (4, Funny)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 2 years ago | (#40410917)

What is this, the third time now? Usually you institute rules like "No browsing porn on the centrifuge control computers" after the first time. Maybe your scientists realize that if they start producing anything bomb-worthy, Israel will come in and flatten their facility, likely killing them all in the process. So maybe they just tell you "Oh! Those filthy Americans infected our computers again!" and go back to playing Tetris for another couple of years.

U235 + software = U238?? (1)

sackbut (1922510) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411017)

The beauty of these software attacks is that the Iranians cannot trust most of the numbers the computers are showing. Not just on the control side of things but also the specialized equipment that assays, say, the purity of the uranium isotopes. So they would have to go back and redo the assay with equipment that they really can't be sure is accurate.

Okay, I'll admit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40411047)

that it was the butler (with the maid) using the candlestick in the drawing room.

CAPTCHA = mollusk

USA/Isreal admitted to creating "such software"? (3, Informative)

wile_e_wonka (934864) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411081)

And once a country admits that it's created such software, publicly deflecting such blame gets a lot harder.

The link leads to another /. article, which leads to another, etc, until it eventually lands at this NY Times article [nytimes.com] .

This article is not an admission by anyone regarding Stuxnet, Flame, or anything else. It just allegedly quotes a bunch of anonymous sources about supposed top secret information.

I promise I don't work for the federal government.

act of war (3, Interesting)

amoeba1911 (978485) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411119)

A recently drafted cyber strategy formulated by the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) classifies digital sabotage as an act of war. [tgdaily.com]

Here's a fact: The U.S. and Israel have started war against Iran. I don't remember congress ever approving this war, I don't remember the public ever being notified that our country is now at war with yet another country, despite being unable to pay for the half dozen other wars we're currently engaged in. This is completely unacceptable.

They are probably infecting themselves by now (1)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411185)

Imagine the number of "click here to remove your virus" programs Iran has downloaded trying to remove Stuxnet/Flame before they knew what it was. They've probably got so many backdoors on their network now they'll never get it totally clean.

No Evidence of an Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program (0)

IVI V K (2022732) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411393)

Iran is openly admits to enriching uranium for the development of their nuclear power industry. Iran realizes its oil resources are limited and too precious to use for domestic energy production. This is a difficult concept for the US to understand.

The US and Israeli governments believe that Iran is developing weapons, but have no evidence there is any nuclear weapons program in Iran.

This is eerily similar to the flagrant misinformation, innuendo and propaganda disseminated before the Iraq war. Even then, official government agencies would confirm no evidence of WMD programs in Iraq, but the politicians and media were more interested in what they believed must be true rather than any facts.

Globally, we should pressure on all countries including US, Israel and Iran to end all nuclear weapon development, and find better ways to ensure these devices are never used again by any group. There must be global consensus that any use of nuclear weapons (offensive or defensive) is a not an attack on a state, but war on humanity justifying global retaliation against any group that uses WMD's.

Quick way to Tuff Guy Status (3, Interesting)

Papa Legba (192550) | more than 2 years ago | (#40411495)

Quickest way to tuff guy status? take Credit for someone else work. Guy drops dead all of a suddent take credit for his death, even if you had nothing to do with it. The US and Isreal are riding this wave that now everytime something in the cyber world drops dead its because they did it, no matter what happens, even if they are just as suprised as everyone else. This plays well into the Iranians need to blame their inability to produce anything in their nuclear program on someone else. We would have had a Bomb if it was not for those medling kids!

I can say without a doubt that their is no Goverment Service worker that could have produced Stuxnet or Flame. I doubt it was a US contractor. They would have worked on it for sure, but they would have never delivered a final product and had that gravy train dry up.

I have a strong feeling that all this "accidental" leaking is just a way to take credit without actually claiming you took credit.

So when the iranians claim another attack I take it with a grain of salt. To many people have to much at stake claiming that something happend. Having something actually happen is besides the point.

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