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'Nuclear Free' Maryland City Grants Waiver For HP

timothy posted about 2 years ago | from the pollyanna-buys-a-gun dept.

Government 277

dcblogs writes "The City of Takoma Park, Md. this week granted a waiver to its public library to allow it to use some new HP hardware, whose products are otherwise banned under its 'nuclear free zone' ordinance. That law, adopted in 1983 one month after the Cold War-era movie 'The Day After' was aired, prohibits the city from buying equipment from any company connected to U.S. nuclear weapons production. The library bought new Linux-based, x86 systems from a Canadian vendor and didn't realize the vendor was using HP hardware. The hardware arrived in April and was unused until the Takoma Park city council granted it a waiver this week. The city's list of banned contractors was developed in 2004 by a now inactive group, Nuclear Free America, and hasn't been updated since."

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Movies (5, Funny)

AkaKaryuu (1062882) | about 2 years ago | (#40412747)

Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

Re:Movies (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412785)

Welcome to "democracy".

Re:Movies (3, Interesting)

Firethorn (177587) | about 2 years ago | (#40412793)

Not to mention -and has been since at least 1983.

If I was in that town I'd be pushing for it's repeal. Just like I pushed for getting rid of the ban on selling alcohol to indians in my old town. Yes, the law called them Indians.

Re:Movies (1)

ZombieBraintrust (1685608) | about 2 years ago | (#40412949)

Were you successfull?

Re:Movies (3, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40412957)

So given that Indians are no longer called Indians, does that mean that people descended from the indigenous population can be served but not the guys from India?

Re:Movies (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412991)

Since they come from Asia, the aren't "Native Americans" either.

"Indians" is actually less inaccurate.

Re:Movies (4, Insightful)

Immerman (2627577) | about 2 years ago | (#40413431)

And before that from Africa, along with every other human on the planet. The term "native" has to have some cuttoff date or it's completely useless, usually a few (or few dozen) generations suffices. Or are we now classifying every single US citizen an "African American"?

Re:Movies (1)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 2 years ago | (#40413643)

Every singe world citizen should be "African". In quotes.

Re:Movies (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40413785)

Actually, that's not necessarily completely accurate. I'm pretty sure I saw an article (probably here on Slashdot) a couple weeks ago that there's now a new theory that modern humans all came from Asia first, then all migrated to Africa for some odd reason, then some of those migrated from there out to everywhere else (including back to Asia).

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413841)

My family can trace back 10 generations in America. I have a cousin who's great grandchild can now go back 13 generations. When does my family become native Americans?

Technically I guess it wasn't called America when they sailed over in the early 1500s. meh...

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413069)

At least they didn't call them Injuns.

Re:Movies (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40413809)

Many of them probably did, they just didn't spell it that way (at least not the literate ones writing laws). Written speech is frequently quite different from colloquial spoken speech done by the same person.

If you lived in that town... (2)

mekkab (133181) | about 2 years ago | (#40413149)

ahhh, Takoma Park, MD! If you lived in that town, you'd be pretty pissed about the waiver, actually.

Re:Movies (-1, Troll)

Kryptonian Jor-El (970056) | about 2 years ago | (#40413193)

I'd like to show you Takoma Park, as I live right outside the city limits. Its a rundown shithole, full of immigrants and poor people. This is exactly the kind of city that would pass that law 30 years ago when the town was mostly dumb rednecks, but today, the people that live here aren't the type to get into politics.

Also, about that indian law, could native americans buy alcohol, rightfully claiming they weren't indians? And could actual indians (from india) not buy alcohol?

Re:Movies (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413279)

Actually the vast majority of Takoma Park residents are still retired hippies, as they were when the law passed. And considering the average home price in quite a few neighborhoods is up around half a million, I doub it's "full of ... poor people".

Re:Movies (5, Interesting)

Bootsy Collins (549938) | about 2 years ago | (#40413419)

Huh? Is this a troll?

The reason it isn't surprising that such a law was passed in Takoma Park is because since the early-60s, Takoma Park has been famous for being a very-left-leaning home for granola-munching ex-hippies who have become financially stable boomers. For decades it was referred to as the Berkeley of the East; people in DC still often call it "the People's Republic of Takoma Park." I can't think of a time when Takoma Park was a town of "dumb rednecks"; and even now, when it's less leftist than it used to be, it's still far more that way than any place else anywhere near DC.

Re:Movies (1)

saintlupus (227599) | about 2 years ago | (#40413207)

The Bureau of Indian Affairs calls them that too. Shocking.

Re:Movies (2)

gmanterry (1141623) | about 2 years ago | (#40413739)

The Bureau of Indian Affairs calls them that too. Shocking.

In Arizona Native Americans call their gambling properties "Indian Casinos".

Re:Movies (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413229)

Not to mention -and has been since at least 1983.

If I was in that town I'd be pushing for it's repeal. Just like I pushed for getting rid of the ban on selling alcohol to indians in my old town. Yes, the law called them Indians.

At least they didn't call them "prairie niggers".

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413703)

Not to mention -and has been since at least 1983.

If I was in that town I'd be pushing for it's repeal. Just like I pushed for getting rid of the ban on selling alcohol to indians in my old town. Yes, the law called them Indians.

At least they didn't call them "prairie niggers".

Holy SHIT and I thought I posted some insensitive crap.

Re:Movies (5, Informative)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#40413269)

Yes, the law called them Indians.

Our largest local Indian confederation refers to itself as "Indians". The Indians I've known all call themselves Indians.

The people I've known that get worked up about using "Native American" tend to be white and middle-to-upper class.

Re:Movies (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413611)

The people I've known that get worked up about it tend to be Indians, as in people from India. It's also confusing to pretty much anyone outside of the Americas, as people from India are pretty common while indigenous Americans don't go abroad as much. It can even get confusing in some parts of the US west coast where there are a lot of Indian immigrants. I don't think it's offensive; it just gets confusing if you spend a lot of time in California and Europe.

Re:Movies (1)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | about 2 years ago | (#40413735)

I've known some folks from Mumbai who strive to make that distinction too :)

Re:Movies (1)

evil_aaronm (671521) | about 2 years ago | (#40413405)

My wife and son are enrolled members of the Seneca Nation of Indians. I don't think they have a problem with that term.

http://www.sni.org/ [sni.org]

Re:Movies (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 2 years ago | (#40413681)

Just like I pushed for getting rid of the ban on selling alcohol to indians in my old town. Yes, the law called them Indians.

Well if they were Pakistanis they probably wouldn't want to buy it anyway, it's haram.

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412829)

I don't give a damn. Anything that keeps money out of the military-industrial complex, no matter how insignificant, gets a wholehearted approval from me.

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413065)

By not buying HP desktops? That'll show those defense contractors who's boss!

Re:Movies (1)

ebuck (585470) | about 2 years ago | (#40413445)

I don't give a damn. Anything that keeps money out of the military-industrial complex, no matter how insignificant, gets a wholehearted approval from me.

Do you also approve of income tax evasion? Because, compared to what the military-industrical complex is likely to get from the money that HP is likely to get from you in a year, that's peanuts to what you probably already pay in income taxes.

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413847)

I wholeheartedly approve of Federal income tax evasion for exactly that reason. Paying your federal taxes amounts to supporting evil.

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413597)

I don't give a damn. Anything that keeps money out of the military-industrial complex, no matter how insignificant, gets a wholehearted approval from me.

Good for you for having principals. Now please stop forcing everyone else to live by your principals by having the government enforce them instead of just voting with your own wallet. Keep in mind--when you don't do what the government says you must do, it eventually comes to a point where someone (usually the police) shows up at your house with a gun and forced you to do what they say--or they lock you up. So repeal the law because either way it supports the military industrial complex, but one way gives people freedom.

Re:Movies (3, Funny)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 2 years ago | (#40413821)

Good for you for having principals

He's a school district?

Re:Movies (5, Funny)

jeffmeden (135043) | about 2 years ago | (#40412835)

Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

You should see the stockpile of shotguns and Patrick Swayze clones they have on hand just in case Red Dawn comes true...

Re:Movies (5, Funny)

BackwardPawn (1356049) | about 2 years ago | (#40412973)

In an ironic twist, they stockpiled plutonium in case someone's DeLorean got stuck 30 years in the past. They did get a waiver for it, though.

Re:Movies (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413041)

Takoma Park? Not hardly. They'd welcome the Soviets with open arms.

Re:Movies (2)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40412897)

>>>Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

It all depends upon your viewpoint. The Greeks believed that plays (which is what a movie is: a film play) can not just entertain but also educate the audience. If I recall my AP english terms correctly, they called it "catharasis".

I guess the Maryland Democrats who run this city experienced catharsis after viewing the destruction of a nuclear holocaust, and decided to no longer be part of any weapon manufacturing business.

Re:Movies (4, Informative)

Ferzerp (83619) | about 2 years ago | (#40412987)

That word (catharsis) doesn't mean what you think it means.

Catharsis is a purging of built up emotion/tension. It has absolutely nothing to do with education of any sort.....

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413163)

You are correct. Basically, it's Greek for "going postal" or "emotional vomit".

Re:Movies (2, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40413251)

If you were living during the Cold War, and seen this movie, that's pretty much what it did. I've always thought an emotional purging was educational. That movie certainly made me "wake up" and realize how dangerous it is to toy with war (especially if our victims have nuclear-equipped allies like Russia).

>>>"Just rammed it through" def'n: any legislation that passes that you don't like.

Actually the Maryland Democrats do pass some good laws. Like the recent decision to allow a student to attend any public school in the state they choose. But the reason I said "ram it through" is because the Republican legislators have no power. They could stay at home and it would make absolutely no difference.

As for "majority rules" Democracy..... well ask the Executed Socrates how he feels about it. He was murdered by a simple democratic vote (they didn't like his speeches so they killed him). That's why Maryland and all the other States are REPUBLICS (rule of law & protection of basic human rights), not democracies.

Re:Movies (1)

lymang (207777) | about 2 years ago | (#40413337)

I am with the other poster: I don't think catharsis was what that was all about at all. It was more about scaring the SHIT out of people (and kids like me.) I was in junior high at that time and the threat of nuclear war with the USSR felt very real to me. Maybe not to all kids, but definitely to me. The Day After was really scary IMO. It didn't make me think "war is a bad thing" it made me think "we're all going to die!!"

Re:Movies (2)

The Grim Reefer (1162755) | about 2 years ago | (#40413857)

It was more about scaring the SHIT out of people (and kids like me.) I was in junior high at that time and the threat of nuclear war with the USSR felt very real to me. Maybe not to all kids, but definitely to me. The Day After was really scary IMO. It didn't make me think "war is a bad thing" it made me think "we're all going to die!!"

Agreed. It was scary has hell at the time. Although the one thing I look back on and laugh about is how one of the main characters survives by ducking down in the front seat of his Volvo and surviving the shock wave. Everyone else on the freeway was vaporized. I remember thinking we really needed to get a Volvo after that.

Re:Movies (1)

ebuck (585470) | about 2 years ago | (#40413653)

I've always thought an emotional purging was educational.

That's where you are wrong. You don't have to learn anything from an emotional outpour. You just get a sense of relief after it is done.

In fact, it would probably be safe to say you are less likely to learn something when experiencing an emotional outpur, but are more likely to do something about it. From my understanding, the only time that people are more likely to accept differing points of view are when they are personaly vulnerable; however, feeling vulnerable doesn't assure that the new point of view expressed is any better than the old one they had.

Re:Movies (1)

Immerman (2627577) | about 2 years ago | (#40413745)

Socrates was given the opportunity to leave but chose to remain on principle. As was common at the time the sentence was in practice "GTFO or die", a fine example of Athenian democracy (the classic "elections" was for banishment rather than office, gave everyone incentive not to be the least-popular guy in town).

As for the problems with majority rule, I'll grant you those freely, but the alternatives are minority rule (which rarely goes well for the majority) or consensus, which rarely gets anything done at all and in practice devolves to minority rule since the powerful are free to collaborate outside the system without fear of censure - all it takes is a few corrupt legislators to deadlock the government and prevent interference. If you've got an idea for an alternative I'd love to hear it.

Our current system at least grants a voice to the larger minority positions, it can be ignored, but is still more than most systems allow. The real problem is that political parties promote an us-versus-them mentality which allow the leaders of even a small majority to exercise disproportionate power, and really we have no one to blame for that but ourselves - the founding fathers specifically warned us of the dangers and we didn't listen.

Re:Movies (1)

steelfood (895457) | about 2 years ago | (#40413729)

You keep using that word (cartharsis). I do not think it means what you think it means.

FTFY.

Re:Movies (3, Insightful)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 2 years ago | (#40412989)

I guess the Maryland Democrats who run this city experienced catharsis after viewing the destruction of a nuclear holocaust, and decided to no longer be part of any weapon manufacturing business.

Hmm, so the cure to war is to make sure that your side won't win if one happens?

I've always preferred the "If thou would have peace, prepare then for war" POV....

Re:Movies (3, Interesting)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 2 years ago | (#40413103)

I guess the Maryland Democrats who run this city experienced catharsis after viewing the destruction of a nuclear holocaust, and decided to no longer be part of any weapon manufacturing business.

Hmm, so the cure to war is to make sure that your side won't win if one happens?

I've always preferred the "If thou would have peace, prepare then for war" POV....

You don't need nukes for that; just look at Switzerland. [wikipedia.org]

Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent to being attacked than stockpiling nuclear weapons.

Re:Movies (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413201)

Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent to being attacked than stockpiling nuclear weapons.

Cool. Then we (US Americans) are covered on both counts.

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413287)

I think that has more to do with not being assholes and fucking with the rest of the world. Not to mention the fact that it's a tactical nightmare to invade.

Re:Movies (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413441)

Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent

The guns don't really matter much, except that an invader would be forced to treat the populace as combatants and inflict a high civilian death toll. Switzerland avoids attack because it is vanishingly small, protected by mountain ranges and devoid of natural resources. Politically and militarily irrelevant, in other words.

Switzerland and its guns are like an 5lb dog barking at a 200lb mailman from behind a fence. The dog is brilliantly proud of itself when the mailman leaves the property.

This situation does not apply to nuclear armed states.

Re:Movies (2)

Obfuscant (592200) | about 2 years ago | (#40413815)

Apparently arming the shit out of your populace (with automatic rifles) is a far greater deterrent to being attacked than stockpiling nuclear weapons.

That's an interesting correlation, but the real reason is that they are smack in the middle of a continent that is connected to the main likely source of nukes (Russia), and I believe that the prevailing weather systems go that way, too. If Russia nuked Switzerland, it would be about a week (or less) before the cloud reached Moskva, and even less before the rest of the neighbors were overrunning Russia in retaliation.

And, of course, if someone else nuked the clock makers, Russia would have a vested interest in stopping it pronto because of its proximity.

Here in the US, the likely nuke tossers are far away and in less danger of nuking themselves at the same time. Some of them are actually fundamentalist radicals who would choose to lob a nuke if they had one just because it's US here and they want the 72 raisins. Or virgins. I mean, just look at Achmed. He's scary (but not as scary as Walter).

Now, that's not to say that arming the civilians en-masse isn't a good thing, but it's not why Switzerland hasn't been nuked. It may be why they haven't been overrun by conventional forces of their neighbors, though.

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413099)

Which is great, except they kept running with it even after the world left them behind. Good luck really avoiding all the companies involved in weapons manufacturing, I doubt HP is the only company that produces a huge range of products.

Re:Movies (4, Interesting)

Khyber (864651) | about 2 years ago | (#40413855)

What's really shitty is that HP (not to defend them given my hatred of them) is mostly involved in a nuclear capacity with regards to medicine, not weaponry.

This is an undeserved reputation.

Re:Movies (1)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 2 years ago | (#40413747)

The Greeks believed that plays (which is what a movie is: a film play) can not just entertain but also educate the audience. If I recall my AP english terms correctly, they called it "catharasis".

Nope, you don't recall your AP English terms at all, because that's not what catharsis (not "catharasis") is. Cartharsis is an emotional purging, not an educational experience.

Re:Movies (2)

bhcompy (1877290) | about 2 years ago | (#40412939)

At least they didn't base their policy on Threads

Re:Movies (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413021)

Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

Do you know of any government where reason dictates policy?

Re:Movies (1)

El Torico (732160) | about 2 years ago | (#40413247)

The Vulcan High Council? Oh, you mean a real government. Then, uh, no.

Re:Movies (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 2 years ago | (#40413175)

Movies, not reason, dictates their city policy.

Sometimes we call these "campaign shots", but yeah, that's pretty much how the system works.

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413443)

So you think there is something unreasonable about opposing nuclear weapons production?

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413851)

Not necessarily, but saying "we will never buy anything from any manufacturer that ever has a piece of equipment remotely related to the production of nuclear weapons" is pretty overarching.

"We can't buy door hinges from this company, because there's a bunker in Nevada that uses hinges made by the same company."

Re:Movies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413499)

Yes. But at least you can bring popcorn to their city council meetings on movie night!

Restraint of trade (2)

Citizen of Earth (569446) | about 2 years ago | (#40412769)

How much funding does the city have set aside to fight off 'illegal restraint of trade' lawsuits?

Re:Restraint of trade (4, Informative)

Akzo (1079039) | about 2 years ago | (#40412881)

Probably nothing, they can choose who they hire and purchase goods from legally.

Re:Restraint of trade (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413139)

I don't know that that's true. Most governments have rules in place about needing to accept bids and choose the supplier that provides the most service at the lowest cost. If you're allowed to ban a company because another arm of their operations also makes equipment in another field what would stop any place from just deciding who they want based on kickbacks and just writing the rules to ban every other offer because their logos are the wrong color or they don't use recycled paper.

Re:Restraint of trade (2)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40412981)

It's not banning sale of goods from those companies within the city, it's just the city government itself that can't buy them. A lot of government entities have whitelists of vendors... this city just happens to use an (outdated) blacklist instead.

If you've ever visited Takoma Park... (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412803)

... then you'd realize that this was the least of their worries.

Re:If you've ever visited Takoma Park... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413129)

... then you'd realize that this was the least of their worries.

While household income is slightly above national average the demographics do look .... unfortunate. I'm guessing this is a bedroom community for hordes of lower level federal workers and their clans. Prime Obama country.

LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412815)

So, if say, Intel and AMD. Both fund a bit of nuclear stuff, the city cant buy PC's?

Re:LOL (2)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40412997)

PCs in Maryland function in much the same way their automobiles are driven.

Hordes of monkeys fighting for control of an abacus.

Mod Parent Up (0)

mekkab (133181) | about 2 years ago | (#40413177)

I can corroborate the above post. And when you add any precipitation to the mix, Marylanders lose their minds (both with respects to automobile driving and computer usage).

Re:Mod Parent Up (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413507)

I can corroborate the above post. And when you add any precipitation to the mix, Marylanders lose their minds (both with respects to automobile driving and computer usage).

Yeah around here it is like that. A light rain and people drive like there's 4 inches of ice on the roads. I think it's because my area has a very large percentage of old people so they tend to drive slow as fuck anyways.

If you routinely drive slower than the (already too low) speed limit it is because you do not have the alertness and the reflexes to feel safe driving at a reasonable speed. This is a sign you should not have a license. If you can be 98 years old and keep up, cool, glad to see it. If you are 41 and can't handle it, then you can't handle it and are both a nuisance and a threat to everyone else. I want these selfish dicks off the road.

My state loves to talk about how "driving is a privilege and not a right" so I don't see the problem here. Course they could start by actually training new drivers on how to handle the automobile, how to correct without overcorrecting, the importance of not panicking, the stupidity of behaviors like tailgating and drifting over the median, etc. All they seem to care about is that you memorize enough road signs. Pathetic.

Maybe Google's automated cars will take care of the old people problem and the morons who do these stupid behaviors. And they are stupid. If you benefit from something at the expense of others, that's selfish. If others benefit at your expense, that's altruistic. If nobody benefits and everyone suffers from a behavior, it's just plain fucking stupid.

Of all the stupid laws.... (1, Troll)

LWATCDR (28044) | about 2 years ago | (#40412867)

Really? Can not buy anything from a company that is related to US nuclear weapons production? Really? What a stupid do nothing make everybody feel good while accomplishing nothing lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya crap law!
I guess they don't use any gasoline since the oil companies sell fuel used to move nuclear weapons. Or any Aluminum since they use Aluminum to build the missiles...
Yeah this made such a difference....

Re:Of all the stupid laws.... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413059)

Really? Can not buy anything from a company that is related to US nuclear weapons production? Really? What a stupid do nothing make everybody feel good while accomplishing nothing lets all hold hands and sing Kumbaya crap law!

No, wrong problem. The REAL problem is that HP is involved in US nuclear weapons production. And now Microsoft is making their computer manufacturing partners very very angry, and one of those manufacturers is HP...

Stay away from the Redmond, WA area for the time being, is all I'm saying.

Re:Of all the stupid laws.... (1)

timeOday (582209) | about 2 years ago | (#40413267)

At least they tried to use what little influence they had in a manner consistent with their values. I respect that. The boomers were still young enough at the time for America collectively to be tilted a bit towards idealism. Now everything is a sellout.

Re:Of all the stupid laws.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413437)

You might respect it. I find nothing but derision like the parent poster. Their values were based off of feelings and little else. Feelings by and of themselves have LITTLE connection to reality and can lead you down rather dark places. It's from feelings that you find the atrocities that the Nazis and the Stalinists committed. There's others and it's mankind's DARKEST hours that find Feelings as the sole source.

When facts follow follow feelings, that is, when you adjust what you see as facts and values solely off fo feelings- only tears follow.

Ilegal alien vote (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412875)

Takoma Park is the city that allows illegals to vote in city elections; not surprising.

Re:Ilegal alien vote (0)

brokeninside (34168) | about 2 years ago | (#40413011)

Because illegal aliens tend to be anti-nuke?

Re:Ilegal alien vote (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413579)

Because illegal aliens tend to be anti-nuke?

No, because they almost exclusively vote Democrat.

Regardless of any good reasons you might have to like the Democrats, it is they who stand to benefit from voter fraud and allowing illegal aliens to vote. That's why they raise such a huge stink whenever the requirement of photo ID to vote is mentioned. They use their old standby of how "racist" this would be, even though a photo ID is free in some states and very cheap in others. Not to mention it's racist of THEM to suggest that just because someone is Black or Hispanic they automatically can't afford a small fee.

Anyway when it comes to illegals voting or standard voter fraud (dead people voting, etc), I wouldn't want the Republicans to get votes this way. Why should the Democrats get a pass? I don't think enough people appreciate just how critically important it is that we have honest elections. Rigged elections are a threat to our very way of life in this country.

Re:Ilegal alien vote (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413773)

Oh no. Someone might vote in the opposite party to you.

How horrible. Or something.

You might make a slightly less poor argument if you say it's unconstitutional for any non US citizen to vote for any level of government in the US. Rather than rant on.

The subject was Takoma Park's anti-nuke policy (2)

brokeninside (34168) | about 2 years ago | (#40413823)

Plenty of Democrats are pro-nuke. So you're lacking a middle term for your syllogism. Even if it is true that most illegal immigrants that vote do so for Democrats, that doesn't explain why it's no surprise that the city council (and the voters at large in the city) are both anti-nuke and supportive of suffrage for non-citizens in local elections.

Moreover, this is not about voter fraud. This is about a city that lawfully has broader criteria for who gets to vote in local elections. It's not about state or federal elections which have their criteria set by the state and federal government. So there is no fraud at hand.

Just need a couple amendments (3, Insightful)

cellocgw (617879) | about 2 years ago | (#40412929)

Maybe they should extend the ban to companies involved with biowarfare (agar, petri dishes, thermal control chambers), or to cyberwarfare (Microsoft, RedHat, and your son's best friend who became a script kiddy last night).

Try to keep up, people. (5, Funny)

John Hasler (414242) | about 2 years ago | (#40412935)

"Nuclear free" is sooo 1980s. It's all about "greenness" now. You need to update your pc checklists monthly.

Re:Try to keep up, people. (2)

kevkingofthesea (2668309) | about 2 years ago | (#40413227)

Why don't you quit shoving your PC-ness down my throat?

Re:Try to keep up, people. (2)

camperdave (969942) | about 2 years ago | (#40413307)

Well, that's the issue, isn't it. Whether or not HP is PC.

Re:Try to keep up, people. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413379)

HP has been selling PC-compatible computers for decades.

Re:Try to keep up, people. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413461)

Its just more liberal puke, ingrates who hate the very country that bore them and used to protect them. Much like the slash dumb liberals that post here. You know the ones who believe in Global Warming fairy tales and have the nerve to be religious, creationist bigots. Free Speech for the dumb.

Re:Try to keep up, people. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413829)

I WANT THE TRUTH!

EVEN IF IT'S ONE SIDED MILITARISTIC IGNORANCE!

Free speech for the war mongers. The ones that say might makes right, so get the fuck out of my country if you don't love it exactly like I do.

In other news... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412993)

"Hey, how did all these dead insects end up in the grill of my Prius?" exclaimed the militant vegan...

Re:In other news... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413155)

Yep and he's saying it as your blubber butt is bent over and taking the rock-hard, throbbing dick up your ass.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413553)

Are you a homophobe?

Maryland? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40412995)

The whole state is a subsidiary of the defense industry.

Abandon principles once money's involved (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413023)

Typical posturing twits.

...And also allows what they fight over... (0)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 2 years ago | (#40413053)

Umfortunately the city government still allows the worst nuclear offender of all -- people with penises.

Seventh-day Adventist Church (5, Informative)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 2 years ago | (#40413101)

Takoma Park [wikipedia.org] has long been a center for the Seventh Day Adventist Church [wikipedia.org] , and 7DAs tend to be pacifists.

Re:Seventh-day Adventist Church (0)

jdavidb (449077) | about 2 years ago | (#40413593)

I'm pacifist, too, but I also believe in letting people buy whatever computers they want! And I also believe in not pushing my beliefs on other people. After all, if you're pacifist, and other people don't want to believe that way, what are you going to do? Shoot them?

Takoma Park has an interesting history (1)

brokeninside (34168) | about 2 years ago | (#40413885)

It was settled predominantly by Seventh Day Adventists as a safe spot for Seventh Day Adventists. So the laws in place tend to reflect the morals of that faith. For a long time, the city was dry. (Although the liquor laws are being liberalized of late.) There is an emphasis on sustainability. In the sixties and seventies, this sort of policy attracted quite a few hippies, utopians and other individuals with pretty left wing ideas. Since the city is a democratic experiment in progress, over time, city policy came to also reflect these values in some ways. As the demographics continue to change, the city's laws and government will also continue to change.

So it's not really a matter of pushing beliefs. It's a matter of people voting their conscience at the ballot box.

like Steve Jobs security clearances to sell Pixars (2)

peter303 (12292) | about 2 years ago | (#40413141)

When Pixar was still a hardware company making graphics accelerators, Steve sold one to a DOD contractor. He had to get a security clearance to do so. Someone got the clearance data using FOI and posted a couple weeks ago. Both this and Nuclear Free Zones is some extreme government bureaucracy.

Why is this News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413249)

Many cities and other municipalities have ordinances like this. Why is this one instance news? If a municipality decides to operate under these constraints, it seems like something that only the citizens of the municipality would really care about.

Unless maybe HP wants to apply external pressure, so they hire someone to post internet messages, create a disproportional external response to this internal rule to try to overwhelm them and force additional waivers or repeal?

I should disclose that I live in a city that has several of these ordinances. We ban work with nuclear manufacturers, bio- and chemical weapon manufacturers, companies with investments in apartheid (that need to be reviewed and repealed), companies with investments in countries with human rights abuses, companies that invest heavily in tobacco and oil, and all sorts of other things. Our city council also vigorously weighs in on all sorts of US national policies, with all sorts of other symbolic gestures. Some other cities point at us and laugh, but heck, it makes the majority of our citizens feel better about ourselves and our community.

And to correct the misleading statement in the summary, the city was deliberating on this ban BEFORE the movie "The Day After." While that absurd movie may have driven some furor, the issue was raised before the movie and at least some of the citizens still feel that acting locally against something that has global implications is worth their energies: "We feel it's important to make a stand against what we consider to be a potentially destructive force for the whole planet."

Re:Why is this News? (2)

magarity (164372) | about 2 years ago | (#40413687)

Many cities and other municipalities have ordinances like this. Why is this one instance news?

The real lesson has nothing to do with any particular city being "nuclear free" or "sanctuary" or anything else in particular. The lesson is that government passes laws and leaves them on the books ad infinitum without ever revisiting them to see if they need updating or outright repeal. In this case, the special interest group that pushed for the law's latest version of specifics no longer exists. I bet people in that community have bumper stickers saying "question authority" but won't ever think of bringing up statues from the 80's for review,

Re:Why is this News? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40413825)

Why would they bring up statues?

It's run by hippies... (1)

Patent Lover (779809) | about 2 years ago | (#40413529)

I've known several people that have lived in Tacoma Park. It's definitely got an ex-hippie vibe. Pretty nice place, though.

Power Grid (1)

A10Mechanic (1056868) | about 2 years ago | (#40413879)

Would someone be in a position to tell us how much of their electrical power comes from nuclear reactors? I'm thinking they should disconnect form the grid until we know for sure...
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