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Apple Store Employees Soak Up the Atmosphere, But Not Much Cash

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the paid-entirely-in-itunes-scrip dept.

Businesses 654

raque writes "The NYTimes is reporting on just how badly Apple Retail employees are being paid. Apple is exploiting its fan base for cheap labor. This is one reason I don't go to Apple Stores if I can avoid it. Stores like NY's Tekserve offer a great shopping experience without so exploiting their workers." Would you rather start at an Apple store for $11.91 an hour (average starting base pay, according to the linked article) and an employee discount, or at Tiffany for $15.60?

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That pay is just for the first few months (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424215)

My wife works at an Apple store and pulls in $29.15 an hour working the genius bar. Which means that she would have been able to qualify for the mortgage we took out three months ago just on her salary. The 25% employee discount is nice also.

Methinks the poster has an axe to grind with his inflamatory language.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424281)

My wife works at an Apple store and pulls in $29.15 an hour working the genius bar. Which means that she would have been able to qualify for the mortgage we took out three months ago just on her salary. The 25% employee discount is nice also.

Methinks the poster has an axe to grind with his inflamatory language.

just shows how much of an ass raping apple is giving it's customers.....price wise.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424325)

All tech companies have high margins. A lot of the costs is R&D, so the manufacture price is a lot lower than the retail price.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424351)

Not true. The margins on almost every PC manufacturer are razor thin. That may change with the advent of Ultrabooks, but only for a short time.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424929)

It is not "it's", it is "its", you, ass raped brainless moron, who doesn't like Apple. Learn how to spell first, please!

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (4, Interesting)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424441)

So how many employees usually last beyond the first few months? Or in other words, what the ratio of new employees to well established employees be, at any point of time, in the store?

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (5, Insightful)

D'Sphitz (699604) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424497)

Even for the non-genius bar employees, is $11.91/hour starting pay for retail supposed to be shocking or what? I worked many jobs just out of high school in the 90's for $5/hour, it's been a long time since I was paid hourly but am I really that disconnected that I think 12 bucks an hour seems fair?

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (5, Insightful)

Yosho-sama (800703) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424517)

Your comment is based on your lack of understanding about how badly the dollar has devalued. $12/hour isn't a living wage in a lot of places.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (0, Redundant)

D'Sphitz (699604) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424571)

I didn't earn a living wage working at Burger King in 1994 either. So what has changed exactly?

the price of gasoline, food, and housing (4, Insightful)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424661)

has gone up dramatically since the 1990s, and the Consumer Price Index has essentially been 'gamed' to hide all of this.

gasoline in particular went haywire about the same time that the commodities exchanges switched from open pits to electronic trading (see the book Asylum by McGrath-Goodman for more information)

food is linked to gasoline of course, but it still doesn't explain why flour is fluctuating up and down by 100% every few months.

housing of course went through the roof thanks to the subprime mortgage securities and their deriviatives (CDOs, Synthetic CDOs, etc), and the foreclosure robo-signing scandal has backlogged the system so much that prices still havent come down properly.

in other words, yes, things have changed.

Re:the price of gasoline, food, and housing (1, Insightful)

billstewart (78916) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424695)

Of course, gasoline prices weren't at all affected by the US starting wars in oil-producing countries...

compared to the iran-iraq war in the 1980s (3, Insightful)

decora (1710862) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424757)

which saw several million casualties and refugess, including over a million people dead, with chemical warfare and massive tank battles, and then the 1991 gulf war where Saddam set his own oil fields on fire.... then of course the 1970s violent revolution in Iran, the rise of the Ba'ath Party in Syria and Iraq, the Suez crisis, the various wars against israel, etc.

compared to all that, the US invasion in 2003 of Iraq is not very big. it seems big, but it really does not explain the price craziness at all. things have been much more chaotic in the past in the middle east, but prices were much more stable.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424603)

And you aren't entitled to a "living wage," whatever that means in any given time and place. It's a term you made up.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424671)

... (S)He did not make that up...

In public policy, a living wage is the minimum hourly income necessary for a worker to meet basic needs (for an extended period of time or for a lifetime). These needs include shelter (housing) and other incidentals such as clothing and nutrition. In some nations such as the United Kingdom and Switzerland, this standard generally means that a person working forty hours a week, with no additional income, should be able to afford a specified quality or quantity of housing, food, utilities, transport, health care, and recreation. In addition to this definition, living wage activists further define "living wage" as the wage equivalent to the poverty line for a family of four.

The living wage differs from the minimum wage in that the latter is set by law and can fail to meet the requirements of a living wage - or is so low that borrowing or application for top-up benefits is necessary. It differs somewhat from basic needs in that the basic needs model usually measures a minimum level of consumption, without regard for the source of the income.

The ILO uses various criteria to recommend minimum wage levels: the needs of workers and their families, the general level of wages in a county, the cost of living, social security benefits, the relative living standards of social groups and economic factors such as economic development and employment maintenance. The living wage focuses more on the needs of worker units, social security benefits and cost of living.

Living wage and minimum wage are two different things. Living wage is defined by the wage that needs to be met that can meet the basic needs to maintain a safe decent standard of living the their community and have the ability to save for future needs and goals.[1] To meet living wage people need to make about $12.50 an hour. Currently the minimum wage across the US is $7.25, which is well below living wage. In 1990 the first living wage campaigns were launched by community initiatives in US addressing increasing poverty faced by workers and their families. They argued that employee, employer, and the community win with a living wage. Employees would be more will work helping the employer reduce worker turnover ratio and it would help the community when the citizens have enough to have a decent life.[2]

Poverty threshold is the income necessary for a household to be able to consume a low cost, nutritious diet and purchase non-food necessities in a given country. Poverty lines and living wages are measured differently. Poverty lines are measured by household units and living wage is based on individual workers.

A related concept is that of a family wage – one sufficient to not only support oneself, but also to raise a family.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage [wikipedia.org]

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424869)

(Shrug) Who cares? It's still just a term somebody with an agenda made up.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (0)

Yosho-sama (800703) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424683)

Anonymous coward is anonymous.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (5, Informative)

D'Sphitz (699604) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424521)

A quick google shows fast food starting pay is right around $8/hour, retail at $9/hour, so I'm having trouble generating any outrage over Apple paying $12/hour.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (3, Interesting)

MacTO (1161105) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424629)

In a lot of respects, I agree with that assessment. Yet I'd add a caveat: the value of an employee depends upon how much they contribute to the company's bottom line. This favours Apple employees: fast food involves a lot of labour for a low cost product.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424673)

Apparently your wife is the exception. Apple know who gets the cash: Those with the leverage.
They want customers to feel good about their products. They don't need employees or vendors to feel good about their own dough.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424727)

I admit, I'm a bit of an Apple hater sometimes. It's their attitude, towards thinking they own basic concepts, but I digress. I did a quick check to see what competing retailers are paying.

Best Buy sales associate $9.70: http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Best-Buy-Hourly-Pay-E97.htm
Fry's Electronics sales associate $9.19: http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Fry-s-Electronics-Hourly-Pay-E3186.htm

They are paying more than the going rate it seems. Though I'm sure it's worth it if your are trying to fill your store with hipsters that the apple fans can look up to as the apostles of apple...

Anyway, for me this story is doesn't seem to have any basis that I can clearly see.

Re:That pay is just for the first few months (2, Interesting)

geoskd (321194) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424905)

I admit, I'm a bit of an Apple hater sometimes. It's their attitude, towards thinking they own basic concepts, but I digress. I did a quick check to see what competing retailers are paying.

Best Buy sales associate $9.70: http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Best-Buy-Hourly-Pay-E97.htm [glassdoor.com] Fry's Electronics sales associate $9.19: http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Fry-s-Electronics-Hourly-Pay-E3186.htm [glassdoor.com]

Not in New York City they're not, and that is what the New York Times is talking about. Yes, Much of the country starts people at ~$9 / hr, but in NYC, $9 / hr is starvation wage. $12 / hr will pay for food and possibly rent, but thats about it. Glassdoor uses the nationwide numbers, and the number of retails sales people in rural areas far outweighs the numbers in the major metropolitan areas. That is why the major met areas pay more, because each individual sales person does more volume by virtue of being in a target rich environment.

-=Geoskd

Question already answered (4, Insightful)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424217)

"Would you rather start at an Apple store for $11.91 an hour (average starting base pay, according to the linked article) and an employee discount, or at Tiffany for $15.60?"

I think the people who work at Apple Stores -- and others waiting for callbacks -- have already answered that.

What, supply and demand suddenly can't drive wages now?

But I imagine this, like any article on Foxconn (aka "Apple factory"; forget all other customers), will be another anti-Apple free-for-all, so have fun!

Re:Question already answered (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424235)

So all the people who don't work at Apple stores don't get to answer? This test is skewed.

Re:Question already answered (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424261)

On the contrary, would you like to be known as Tiffany Store Genius or Apple Store Genius?

Re:Question already answered (2)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424451)

On the contrary, would you like to be known as Tiffany Store Genius or Apple Store Genius?

Well, having just watched "Breakfast at Tiffany's" last night...

The store employee agreed to engrave a plastic ring for under ten bucks, and it wasn't even a Tiffany's ring. While it's true he did solve George Peppard's problem, Tiffany's probably wouldn't consider him a Genius since the net benefit to them was likely negative.

Re:Question already answered (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424487)

Tiffany Store Genius, because then I have a chance to bonk some rich trophy wife.

Re:Question already answered (3, Funny)

Khyber (864651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424699)

I'm a Sex Shop Genius.

I get hit on more than any Apple employee ever will, I get great discounts and free porn and free toys/lube, *AND* to top it off male and female co-workers are quite attractive.

In fact, one's coming over on her lunch break in 3 hours. ;)

Tips from customers as I get off work and leave the building (can't accept tips in-store on-clock) is a nice bonus, too! $50+ nightly.

And some of the stories I could tell you. No Apple employee has such privilege, I can guarantee this.

Why would I want to work at Apple?

Re:Question already answered (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424627)

Talk about apples and oranges. Working in Tiffany's is not working in an Apple store. How about something comparable instead. The article mentioned the average Apple salesman sells about $473K while average electronics is about $206K. I didn't read what the average electronics salesperson makes. If it isn't close to $11.25 starting (with benefits) after commissions then there isn't much room for discussion.

Calories (0, Offtopic)

Mike Mentalist (544984) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424225)

Those turtle-neck sweaters have plenty of sustenance. Think of those elven corn bread things from Lord of the Rings.

Rich MILF bonus (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424251)

Tiffany's for sure, especially considering the potential of landing some rich MILF poon.

Re:Rich MILF bonus (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424301)

second that...instead of a dumb twat apple fan girl.

Re:Rich MILF bonus (0)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424575)

Dumb twats are easier to get into than smart ones. MILF's have usually been ripped a new one by their children.

I used to be AppleCare CPU T1 (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424269)

at $0.50 CDN above minimum wage. Got screwed into Call Director (hit 0) wages because of a scheduling conflict. Seriously.

Worst thing is, it was that or McDonalds at minimum ($9.60 at the time)

Re:I used to be AppleCare CPU T1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424303)

I should mention, normal CPU T1 was only $11. I also used to put people on hold to take a piss because my handle time was "too short" even though my resolved cases were high, and customer satisfaction surveys were high (which are all or nothing. You're scored on an "out of 5" scale, and anything 80% or below fails. Do the math. Half the time they even literally said they were complaining about the stores but I still took the hit.)

Re:I used to be AppleCare CPU T1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424311)

Got screwed into Call Director (hit 0) wages because of a scheduling conflict. Seriously.

Uhh, english translation please?

Re:I used to be AppleCare CPU T1 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424361)

Call Director was a different department, basically operators. (Thus the "Hit 0") I was hired for tech support, but the training was full time and I was in university at the time. They told me when I was hired that the training was part time, this was changed at the last minute. It was a small town, so not many options for work.

They paid me as a call director, not the tech support pay. When I moved to tech support, they didn't increase my pay.

Re:I used to be AppleCare CPU T1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424381)

Thank you, I understand clearly now.

What a stupid time to post this drivel (5, Insightful)

brunes69 (86786) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424283)

With US unemployment at a six month high and the global economy in the tank, a story comes out that people making > $11 / hour at the local Apple store have it hard off?

Pretty sure that there are 10 people waiting in the queue for every 1 job that opens up at one of these stores.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (5, Insightful)

Volante3192 (953645) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424467)

Yes, making $11/hr means you've got it hard.

Contemplate the meaning of that for a moment. It's not just that we have high unemployment, it's that those WITH employment aren't getting anything close to a living wage. And you know what happens when you don't get a living wage? You have to go on welfare programs.

Funny how that works out, isn't it?

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (2, Insightful)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424549)

So what makes you think that $11/hr is not a "living wage". I'm a bit curious because I currently make slightly more than that and have no trouble putting most of that money away.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

jjohnson (62583) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424633)

Care to break down your budget for us?

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (2)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424691)

$1100 every two weeks before taxes. $600 stays in the bank (plus some taxes+EIC return at tax time). Secret is spending control.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

Telvin_3d (855514) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424759)

So, your total monthly expenses (including taxes) are less than $1500. That's pretty good. I'd be interested in knowing what kind of area you are living in.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424825)

So everyone should live in a gated community no matter whether they have a PhD or just a HS diplomma? Is that what you're saying? that everyone deserves 5 cars and a boat, whether you're a doctor or flipping burgers?

There's a reason we are what we are, evolution requires competition, and if you can't compete, you should not be rewarded as highly as those who can, and thus you should not be able to afford everything you want. The fact that even talantless nothings can make a living and survive, is something already. Had we lived in the prehistoric natural world, evolution would have already gotten rid of such individuals.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (2)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424831)

Living in Yellowstone National Park. This is part of my spending control. If your labor isn't worth that much, then live somewhere where it goes further.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (4, Funny)

amoeba1911 (978485) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424703)

Here's the budget:
Rent: $0 - (living in parents' basement)
Food: $0 - (mom cooks)

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (0)

Khyber (864651) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424713)

Dunno his budget but I know I'm doing just fine in Southern California.

And that's expensive. But I do it on a slow home business and part-time work at a sex shop.

The trick: Quit buying expensive stuff if you can.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424747)

The trick: Quit buying expensive stuff if you can.

No joke. I keep seeing these articles about $600 video cards where people are saying "Some of us only spend $350 on our video cards" and I'm about ready to shit myself. This is just one example of my fist-shaking-on-the-lawn, but seriously. My whole PC is made up of little more than $600 in parts, and I have six cores and enough video card to play any game out today, if not at top quality and top resolution simultaneously (and if it's new, certainly not.)

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

interval1066 (668936) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424741)

Yeah... perhaps I'm not the most frugal of people in the world but I would have a hard time paying all bills and still having cash to put away at 11.00/hour... I would have to give up my car if I wanted to keep a roof over my head. Or I could give up my flat and live in my car I guess.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424917)

Or live somewhere cheaper. If your labor really is worth $11 an hour, then you need to make some sacrifices. That's what I do. There are three things that get missed about living wages. First, if someone's labor isn't worth the living wage, then they get paid $0 per hour. That incidentally is the true minimum though obviously not "living" wage.

Second, a number of people not only are willing to work well below a "living wage", but can afford to. For example, if you're a spouse or dependent child of someone who's already working, then you can settle for less money, yet still make more than your expenses. But "living wage" advocates would rather these people stay unemployed.

Third, income is not static. Just because you earn less than living wage now doesn't mean you always will. Low wages are often part of entry level work and they tend to go up over time. I started below $8 per hour a few years ago and have worked up to my current level. I also gained a lot of valuable job experience. I couldn't get that by staying unemployed.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424733)

khallow's weekly budget:

12.50x36 = $450 = $375 after taxes

1.) Cheese Doodles $15
2.) Rent to mom for basement: $25
3.) Mountain Dew: $15
4.) Savings: $320

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

Fjandr (66656) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424811)

I quite agree. If someone cannot support themselves full time on $12/hr, they've made poor choices about where they live in relation to the work they are able to accomplish, or even poorer day-to-day or month-to-month money management choices.

My circumstances are seriously edge-case as concerns why my income is so low, but I have a good standard of living in a moderately-sized US city netting half that amount. Doubling my income would actually afford me private health insurance.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

Shavano (2541114) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424885)

Try moving out of of Daddy's house.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424551)

Are you telling me that people cannot live on 22K/year?

Here is a man that raises his family of four on 27K/year: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/06/01/raising-a-family-on-under-2000-per-year/.

I live on 28K/year (making 90K/year, mind you!).

My two roommates live on the 12K/year stipend for their research.

My girlfriend lives on 15K/year.

None of us are on welfare. All of us have savings cushions. All of use drive our own (paid for) cars (between 15 and 4 years old, mine is the oldest). All of us can afford to do reasonable things: going to swim with dolphins this weekend, all of us have spent at least 1 week in a foreign country this past year, several of us have had theme-park weekends, and we each eat out of the house about once per week. We are not about to claim welfare.

Fuck you.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (4, Insightful)

cptdondo (59460) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424887)

Budgets please. Unless you live in some total backwater, you can't live on $12K/yr, or $15K/yr without some form of assistance. Where I live a cheap apartment can cost $6K/yr. Groceries are easily $400/mo, so that doesn't leave enough to buy gas for one of your paid-for cars.

Re:What a stupid time to post this drivel (1)

DesScorp (410532) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424857)

Yes, making $11/hr means you've got it hard.

Contemplate the meaning of that for a moment. It's not just that we have high unemployment, it's that those WITH employment aren't getting anything close to a living wage. And you know what happens when you don't get a living wage? You have to go on welfare programs.

Funny how that works out, isn't it?

Most Apple Store employees are young students or young workers living at home or sharing an apartment with others and splitting expenses. I really doubt that there's a lot of single parents supporting a whole family on Apple Store pay. So there goes your welfare jab. Getting outraged over this is like getting outraged at making just over minimum wage flipping burgers. If you want to make more money, learn a skill and become a higher valued worker.

$12 an hour is being exploited? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424285)

Are you kidding me? They have no specialized skill. It's a basic retail job. Some people in the US would kill for $12 an hour. And you even get to hang out in the air-conditioning. Give me a break.

I completely agree.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424431)

In fact, $11.91/hour starting pay at retail is pretty damn good, since most retail stores start at minimum wage.

The author has absolutely no reference point to make any sort of claim, here.

Re:$12 an hour is being exploited? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424457)

Just mention "Apple" and all the iHating, whining trolls that are typical of /. come out of their pits.

That's a good starting wage for a retail job. Compare that to any other store and one will find that Apple pay's their base workers quite well.

But no... it's "Apple" that's being discussed so just hate for the sake of hating.

Crybabies.

Re:$12 an hour is being exploited? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424511)

^

In particular, how many Tiffany's jobs are there? Is that the norm for retail employment. Do you think Apple jobs are less desirable than Walmart?

Re:$12 an hour is being exploited? (5, Interesting)

grif_91 (1674902) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424537)

I second this. I work as a corrections officer in Kansas, working with >800 inmates Minimum to Maximum security inmates five days a week, and I only make $12.98/hour, with very bleak outlook in the way of raises.

Re:$12 an hour is being exploited? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424787)

I second this. I work as a corrections officer in Kansas, working with >800 inmates Minimum to Maximum security inmates five days a week, and I only make $12.98/hour, with very bleak outlook in the way of raises.

So, I take it you supplement your income by smuggling drugs & contraband to inmates?

Or do you stage prizefights and bet on the outcome?

Re:$12 an hour is being exploited? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424829)

You know that prison guards in California can make over 100k a year.

Re:$12 an hour is being exploited? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424597)

This. Apple is a shitty company, but the fanboys who want to work for them deserve to be treated like shit too.

Re:$12 an hour is being exploited? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424625)

The NYT is staffed by people who think that a living wage includes a new Apple gadget every six months, a $3K/month studio apartment, and an all organic diet. They're only slightly less out of touch with reality than Mitt Romney is... not much less, though.

I heard through the grape vine (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424287)

25% raise is in the air ...
$30/hr for counter workers

25% raise news was on the radio (1)

billstewart (78916) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424715)

Probably was NPR, but it might have been traffic radio\\\ CBS. Of course, it might have been motivated by the NYT story, or it might be an effect of Cook taking over the business from Steve.

it's not always about the cash. (3, Interesting)

MrCrassic (994046) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424305)

You don't work at the Apple Store to make any sort of serious cash. There are many better conduits for people to travel down in both IT and sales if money is a concern. People work there for the *coolness* factor. It's about as hot as working for Google or Facebook, and employee discounts are never a bad thing. Its also an easy experience builder for people, especially given the floor traffic.

And not to nitpick, but $10/hr ain't bad. Especially if you're earning tips.

Re:it's not always about the cash. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424651)

I do know that in Austin, working at an Apple store might be a way to get into a better job internally, be it customer support, or even IT work. So for someone starting out who knows the college route will leave them with the same odds of finding meaningful employment [1].

Apple has a decent employee package, and for a 20-something, it is worth it. Pay is competitive, decent health benefits, discount on toys, and a lot of other items.

So, for someone just starting out, it is hard to beat working at Apple.

[1]: Ironic that in other countries, it costs their citizens $0 for a college education, while here in the US, it is a non-dischargable debt (where people who gamble away can sit back for 3-4 years and the debts go away.) No wonder companies hire H-1Bs by the legions.

Re:it's not always about the cash. (2, Funny)

Shavano (2541114) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424933)

Yeah with the employee discount you can buy Apple gear for only 75% more than competitive hardware.

AYT writer is a fool (1)

tomhath (637240) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424335)

Much of the debate about American unemployment has focused on why companies have moved factories overseas, but only 8 percent of the American work force is in manufacturing, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Yea, that's the problem...Duh. People need jobs, so they work retail.

Article notes everyone just got raises (5, Informative)

maccodemonkey (1438585) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424341)

Funny how the summary didn't note why the article was just published, Apple just gave everyone raises. Reports are that geniuses are being paid in the ballpark of $30 an hour now, which is reasonable for an IT focused job.

From TFA:

"Even Apple, it seems, has recently decided it needs to pay its workers more. Last week, four months after The New York Times first began inquiring about the wages of its store employees, the company started to inform some staff members that they would receive substantial raises. An Apple spokesman confirmed the raises but would not discuss their size, timing or impetus, nor who would earn them.

But Cory Moll, a salesman in the San Francisco flagship store and a vocal labor activist, said that on Tuesday he was given a raise of $2.82 an hour, to $17.31, an increase of 19.5 percent and a big jump compared with the 49-cent raise he was given last year."

Re:Article notes everyone just got raises (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424547)

Jesus 17.31/hr in SF. That sucks. Although being a salesperson is a rough life. Work for Apple in Cupertino, they make a lot more than 17/hr.

Re:Article notes everyone just got raises (3, Interesting)

slippyblade (962288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424677)

Every one of the numbers tossed around in this article make me gag. Those wages, even pre-raise, are ridiculously high for an entry level retail job. And as for your $30 and hour for the "genius" bar?? Please. My sister is an RN - you know - the people in the hospital that save your life? - and she gets about $25 an hour. I've NEVER heard of an IT position, especially one attached to a retail operation, making that.

Re:Article notes everyone just got raises (1)

Nimey (114278) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424919)

Are they contractors? If they don't get benefits and have to pay their own taxes, etc. then it's not quite that ridiculous.

If they're benefits-getting employees, wow. I've been doing IT for 7 years at a state university in the Midwest and I get $23.50/hour, started at ~$17/hr. Our cost-of-living in this area is pretty low; for example, a 1900 square-foot house with 1/4 acre lot might go for $158K new.

Aspirations of working at the mall? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424369)

Since when has an entry level job working retail sales at the mall been an aspirational job? This is typically something that high-schoolers and college students do part time to earn some extra cash or help pay for school.

These are low skill jobs with a lot of turn over and will never be tops in pay. A store manager is a different story, but they make more money of course.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Apple vs Tiffany (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424371)

Would you rather start at an Apple store for $11.91 an hour (average starting base pay, according to the linked article) and an employee discount, or at Tiffany for $15.60?

Hard to say. I'd have to run the math, factoring in such variables as value of store stock, ease of concealment, average return for Apple/Tiffany product on the black market, sophistication of store security and employee monitoring, etc.

Neither. Retail is hell. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424385)

I'd rather get punched in the gut for a nickel a hit.

Seriously I don't understand how some people can be so rude and demanding at stores. I'm almost apologetic when I have to correct some uninformed store clerk for being wrong.

Maybe I'm just not naturally brash and assertive.

Apple's shtick (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424399)

This is what Apple does so well. Serves up the rubric of being somehow about something more than mere money, and yet in reality it is as cut throat and uncaring as any other faceless corporation. Whilst Steve Jobs was on stage doing his guru bit, countless thousands of de facto slaves toiled away in utter misery for the sake of Apple's bottom line. Jobs may be dead, but the nauseating conceit he fostered of Apple as good corporate citizen persists.

"Ethicalness" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424425)

So, what's the break point for "ethicalness"?

Is there some point at which these questions are becoming sooooo ridiculous that /. just stops posting them? I mean, when we've got "Fair trade, non conflict" sourced everything, all of which is made into products by robots maintained by workers with overtime and full health and dental do we get to stop then, or is someone going to form a "fair treatment of robots" league?

How much a society cares about the ethics of its consumption is directly proportional to the amount of wealth that society has on median.

I prefer unfair trade food (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424469)

I enjoy the bitter taste.

Kids, here's the bottom line: (0, Troll)

dsmithhfx (1772254) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424429)

Apple is a disgusting company that makes super-profits, because it treats its employees like garbage. Should that bother you? I dunno, have you got a conscience?

Re:Kids, here's the bottom line: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424473)

Do you have a clue?

Re:Kids, here's the bottom line: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424531)

Really. They pay more than the average clerk job. The average starting wage at UPS is $8. Instead of sitting in an ivory tower try to do some research and learn what an entry level job is.

Working at Apple is an entry level job. I ready through the NYTimes article and the interesting part is the training the receive. When I was in HS and College I worked to pay my bills and I can tell you that I didnt received any training. Apple's training seemed to promote customer experience and other valuable lessons.

When I started my career after college I got paid peanuts and had to work hard to get valuable experience that led to promotions and opportunities at other companies. The truth is that while education and college degrees are great they don't provide any training for the real world and work.

Don't click the NY Times link.They just need views (1)

SensitiveMale (155605) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424459)

They are following the Dvorak method for generating page views. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOHzHVF-4Mg Don't fall for it.

The Day I Finally Quit Slashdot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424471)

Well, It's finally here. I knew slashdot has been going down hill for a while now, but today I leave it behind. After seeing an extremely ignorant submission slandering Tifton 85--an excellent traditionally bred Bermuda grass--as an evil GMO linked to Monsanto, now I have to read this type of crap. I won't even bother joining the discussion--this is no longer the place to find well-reasoned debate. Have fun kiddies, and don't bother telling me--I won't let the ideological door hit me in the ass on the way out.

As others have said.... (4, Interesting)

tkrotchko (124118) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424477)

At the risk of being redundant, these are retail clerk jobs, and don't require a whole lot of skill.

People walk into the store ready to buy a computer. I've never seen a clerk in an Apple store actually sell someone a computer who didn't already want one.

Have you seen the people working at Apple stores? (3, Interesting)

swillden (191260) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424553)

In many cases, Tiffany wouldn't hire them. I've never seen anyone with two-inch gauges and tattoos from wrist to shoulder working at Tiffany.

I'm somewhat surprised that Apple hires them -- not that they don't do a good job, but few companies would hire such for public-facing positions. I think Apple has tapped a good employee resource there; bright, competent young people who've made personal appearance choices that generally disqualify them for customer-facing jobs better-paid than 7-11. And it probably does allow them to pay a little less.

Re:Have you seen the people working at Apple store (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424609)

It pains me to see such judgement passed on what I thought was a website full of forward thinking technologists.

Re:Have you seen the people working at Apple store (3, Interesting)

Fjandr (66656) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424875)

You can be forward-thinking and still be realistic about how companies typically select employees for public-facing positions.

In addition, swillden's description was probably the most non-judgmental analysis of that particular employee issue I've read to date. The only real implicit judgment in the statement was actually in regard to his assumptions about Apple, not the people they hire for front-line retail positions.

Apple overflowing with cash (0)

ThePeices (635180) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424581)

With Apple having as many billions of dollars lying around as it does, why doesnt it want to pay its employees properly?

Its not like they cant afford it, so it is a conscious decision by the company to pay them so little.

I guess it shows that no matter how much money you have, it is never enough, even when your money is measured in the tens of billions of dollars, and also shows that people and companies will do dodgy things to save insignificant fractions of that money.

But Apple must still be applauded for sticking to their morals, even though us 99%'ers do not agree with those morals.

Re:Apple overflowing with cash (2)

NicBenjamin (2124018) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424711)

In retail $11.91 an hour starting wage is great. Even for skilled employees. H and R Block Tax preparers, for example, are only paid $8.50.

I have had jobs in retail since 1999, and I have never heard of a non-supervisor pulling in $11.91 an hour in base salary before. Yeah with commission the 20-hour a week entry-level dude can sometimes pull in $15/$20, but base salary of almost $12? It just doesn't happen outside of New York City.

Re:Apple overflowing with cash (1)

dochin (1044440) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424755)

One good turn deserves another. I don't appreciate being used as part of your 99% argument. Leave me out. From now on you may refer to yourselves as the 98.999999999833%

BS (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424599)

I am the last to defend Apple but have any of you slashdotters worked retail before?

Apple wanted to hire me at $16 an hour and fly me down to Cupertino for training as a tech. BestBuy pays $9 an hour and prefers to hire their minimal wage teenagers instead.

$12 an hour is awesome for retail! Sure the pay is about $20,000 a year and you can't live off that but it is 25% more than the competiton. Tiffany's? Well you have to have many years of experience and be great with selling credit cards and be a good saleswomen or man for that job. They do not hire teenagers.

WHat I do not understand is if you are great at sales you can sell cars for ALOT MORE money or work in corporate sales? I guess you get broken and fear based employees for that price but Apple does pay above market wages as they do not want a geeksquad representing their products.

I get paid less than minimum and I'm a dev (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424655)

So piss off

It's retail. What did they expect? (4, Interesting)

NicBenjamin (2124018) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424681)

Minimum wage is the norm. I work for a pretty good employer (Home Depot), and I get a raise whenever minimum wage goes up. I do not get the opportunity to work inside in air conditioning. I am expected to help people load their cars with their purchases, which more then once have literally weighed a ton (50 40 lb bags). My option for advancement exist, but none would get me to $11.91/hr. I do not get an employee discount of any kind, on anything. I could have benefits, but they require premiums and on $8/hr premiums are impossible.

Beats actual work. (1)

couchslug (175151) | more than 2 years ago | (#40424705)

Go hump boxes on a loading dock or be a parts puller at a salvage yard, then tell us how bad the Apple workers have it.

How is that bad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424769)

How is almost $12/hour bad? I'm not at all a fan of Apple or their products, but I have to say I'm on their side with this one. $12/h is great for retail. I worked behind the counter a few years ago and the going rate then was around $6.50 to $7.00 per hour. I just checked and in this area minimum wage is under $10, so it sounds like Apple is going above and beyond what other retailers are paying.

Discount or Cash...hmmm.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424867)

I'd rather take the cash.

The discount is only good at Apple, but my cash works everywhere.

Literal reading (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40424891)

Since the article clearly discusses entry level employees who are "Apple fans", it occurs to me one has to properly factor in the 25% hardware discount layered on top of the $500 employee discount to determine the net value after all is factored in. Thanks for the admission against interest that Apple geeks seek to be Apple employees.

I suppose the imminent 25% wage increase for "valued employees" factors non-entry level to a new level. Cool.

It's still just retail.

JJ

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