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New iPhone Prototypes Have Integrated NFC chips and Antenna

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the next-generation dept.

IOS 114

zacharye writes "Apple's next-generation iPhone will feature an integrated NFC chip according to a new report, suggesting the Cupertino, California-based company may soon make its entrance into the mobile payment space. A report from 9to5Mac states that an analysis of code from Apple's latest iOS software includes references to an integrated NFC chip and antenna."

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114 comments

NFC and hacking (0)

Russ1642 (1087959) | more than 2 years ago | (#40444887)

So this is why Apple is backing off on their claims of virus immunity. NFC is a big target.

Re:NFC and hacking (4, Funny)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#40444983)

So this is why Apple is backing off on their claims of virus immunity. NFC is a big target.

That's OK, you'll have to hold it a special way to get it to work.

It's a feature, not a bug.

Re:NFC and hacking (0)

Russ1642 (1087959) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445033)

I'm quite good at "holding it in a special way to get it to work".

Re:NFC and hacking (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447297)

I'd be happy if they put in a reliable way to disable this NFC bullshit, so it won't be active at all....and hard to re-activate.

I like a smart phone...I don't need it to be a 'tap' to my money. I have a perfectly good, physical wallet that I trust way more than this.

I prefer to pay most things in daily life with cash. I don't need or want any more credit than I have (and I have TONS available to me)....I don't want to make it easier to have my cash sucked out of me, especially by someone setting up a receiver scanning for me to walk by. At least with a real pickpocket, I might actually 'feel' the theft attempt.

Re:NFC and hacking (2)

SpectreBlofeld (886224) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447505)

I have a Galaxy Nexus with the feature, and it's a simple option in the Settings menu to turn it off.

Re:NFC and hacking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40450507)

That's all fine until the latest undiscovered bluetooth vulnerability is used to near field root your device.

We need a hardware switch or an easy place to drill a small hole in the case... please.

Re:NFC and hacking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40447537)

I'm quite good at "holding it in a special way to get it to work".

That's what she said.

Re:NFC and hacking (2)

siddesu (698447) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445283)

What "big target", this has been a feature of many phones in Japan for years, probably with deployment in the tens of millions. I haven't even heard of one successful virus.

Re:NFC and hacking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445367)

Most Japanese phones run on a Linux stack, not the more vulnerable proprietary OSs.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Linux-and-Open-Source/Linux-Phone-Stack-Vendor-Wins-Big-in-Japan/ [eweek.com]

Re:NFC and hacking (1)

longacre (1090157) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445415)

How is an OS that only runs white-listed software more vulnerable?

Re:NFC and hacking (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445771)

Think before you post next time.

Re:NFC and hacking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445885)

How about you pal.... You seem to not think at all.

Re:NFC and hacking (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448517)

We are referring to the OS with a kernel jailbreak that could be activated by a webpage. You decide.

Re:NFC and hacking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40448935)

Not true. It was a specifically designed PDF file exploiting a bug. Not just some random HTML webpage.
And it has been fixed.

No longer possible.

Re:NFC and hacking (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40449499)

Did it have anything to do with "white-listed software"?

Re:NFC and hacking (1)

siddesu (698447) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445607)

Most mobile phones of the olden days, when NFC payments were first introduced, didn't use Linux at all. Felica was introduced in 2004. Mobile Suica in 2006 or thereabouts, long before the initiatives you link to. Besides, isn't iOS a BSD clone, just like the "Linux stack" allegedly used in "most Japanese phones"?

Re:NFC and hacking (1)

siddesu (698447) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445629)

Doh. "Just like" => "just as 'open' as"

Re:NFC and hacking (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445761)

this is a security vulnerability but it is not one for viruses.

Re:NFC and hacking (1)

Grudge2012 (2662391) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448859)

So this is why Apple is backing off on their claims of virus immunity. NFC is a big target.

Oh, the good old days when people simply wrote "First Post!" instead of some nonsense that sounds like it could be on topic.

Insane! (5, Insightful)

Haxagon (2454432) | more than 2 years ago | (#40444933)

The Apple smartphone will finally have feature-parity with other smartphones one-to-two generations after the fact? This must have never happened before!

Re:Insane! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445077)

Just to further piss people off, the iPhone now having the feature will do more to drive adoption than previous efforts.

Re:Insane! (5, Funny)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445081)

The Apple smartphone will finally have feature-parity with other smartphones one-to-two generations after the fact? This must have never happened before!

Yea, but it wasn't "innovative" before Apple started doing it...

Re:Insane! (0)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445251)

At least it's not proprietary, which was their direction when Google released NFC in the Nexus.

Re:Insane! (2)

cheater512 (783349) | more than 2 years ago | (#40446457)

You might be eating your words when it comes out. We are talking about Apple remember.

Re:Insane! (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448529)

Indeed. So it'll require an iTunes account and Apple will take 30% of all transactions for "bringing you more customers".

Re:Insane! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40446987)

Yea, but it wasn't "innovative" before Apple started doing it...

Tee hee yah!

Oh another note, I can't wait for the next browser thread to come along so I can taunt Opera users for bleating on about which browser got what feature first!

How you integrate also counts as innovation (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445217)

Badly implemented features that are first to market are often less important than implementing the feature correctly.

An example is the iPod. The click wheel and master/slave method of managing music was, in the terminology of biology, an overwhelmingly successful adaptation. The MP3 player market effectively ceased to exist. There was just the iPod market. What they did was make it really, really, really, really easy to play your music. Creative Zen, on the other hand, added buttons. And more buttons. And more buttons.

Thus making it harder to use the key feature.

So yes, how you include a feature counts a lot.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445295)

+googolplex

However, Apple hater, spec fetishists, angry teenagers and typical hardcore PC/Android sheep will never understand that.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (-1, Troll)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445469)

An example is the iPod. The click wheel and master/slave method of managing music was, in the terminology of biology, an overwhelmingly successful adaptation.

Obviously you've never heard of WinAmp [wikipedia.org] or the Diamond Rio MP3 player, [guim.co.uk] both of which debuted about half a decade before the first iPod. Apple didn't innovate shit, they copied other people's designs then told you, 'hey, look at this awesome new thing we came up with!' and you got down on your knees like a good little sucker.

The MP3 player market effectively ceased to exist.

I'm not even going to dignify that ignorant bullshit with a response (beyond calling it out as ignorant bullshit, of course).

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (5, Insightful)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445665)

So in your mind a set of buttons arranged in a circle is "the same" as a rotating disc that is used to navigate a menu on a screen?

I can see your problem!

Of course, you left out the fact that the Diamond Rio also stole the idea from the automobile, which also has circular design features and buttons.

On a serious point, you're attributing "Apple fan hype" to a product that pretty much reignited Apple (along with the iMac). When the iPod came out no one cared about Apple or their small user and fan base. You're thinking about what they're like now and applying that to the era when the iPod came out - there was no "giant devoted fanbase" fawning over "the next insanely great thing" - there was just a small (admittedly devoted) fanbase who stuck with them through the dark years. It certainly wasn't those tiny minority who propelled the iPod into the stratosphere. It was a genuinely much better product to use (but not technically - there were other players with better sound quality) and it sold like hot cakes, especially when it was released in a Windows compatible format.

There weren't any "suckers" when the iPod came out - Apple's fanbase was almost non existent through years of circling the drain.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40447497)

Do you spend your most of your day on Slashdot waiting for someone to insult Apple so you can rush to their defense? Do you spend the rest of the time masturbating to your giant poster of Steve Jobs (or Tim Cook now since jerking off to a dead guy made you feel funny)?

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40447727)

He, BasilBrush, and SuperKendall jerk each other to their SJ posters. A lot.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (1)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447731)

Do you spend your most of your day on Slashdot waiting for someone to insult Apple so you can rush to their defense? Do you spend the rest of the time masturbating to your giant poster of Steve Jobs (or Tim Cook now since jerking off to a dead guy made you feel funny)?

No more time than any other regular poster who has access to the internet.

I spend the rest of the time masturbating to pictures of really aggressive old guys with snarling faces. Nothing else does it for me.

You forgot to log in.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445919)

Dude, you totally missed the point of what made the iPod successful...it was bundled with itunes! The iPod was the first mp3 player to allow people to actually buy their music conveniently in mp3 format. All the other mp3 players just sort of assumed you knew how to pirate music off the internet or rip CDs you bought at a store. Itunes actually gave people a legit way to buy mp3s from the internet. Yeah, sure there were other "music stores" before that but you know damn well they fucking sucked with ridiculous formats and DRM up the wazoo. No, I've never owned an iPod, personally I like the "drag and drop" style file management not the "music database" style of itunes but I'm not so autistic that I can't see how Apple revolutionized the market.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40446081)

It was bundled with SoundJam, as I like to call it.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (1)

Tyler Eaves (344284) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448167)

You might be advised to check your history. The iTunes store was over 18 months after (April 28th, 2003) the first iPod (November 10th, 2001)

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (3, Informative)

Sancho (17056) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445965)

An example is the iPod. The click wheel and master/slave method of managing music was, in the terminology of biology, an overwhelmingly successful adaptation.

Obviously you've never heard of WinAmp [wikipedia.org] or the Diamond Rio MP3 player, [guim.co.uk] both of which debuted about half a decade before the first iPod. Apple didn't innovate shit, they copied other people's designs then told you, 'hey, look at this awesome new thing we came up with!' and you got down on your knees like a good little sucker.

I think it's obvious that the grandparent was referring to hardware, portable mp3 players. Winamp is utterly irrelevant in this context. And he's not saying that Apple invented the mp3 player--just that they innovated within that (fairly small) market and then with those innovations, practically dominated it. Other mp3 players still existed and continued to be created, but interface-wise, they were poor in comparison.

I'm not sure what he means by master/slave music management. Maybe he means a separate app to manage music irrespective of files. Not knowing the history of iTunes, I'm not sure if it always abstracted files and folders away in favor of songs and albums, but that's also a feature that consumers have generally favored.

The Diamond Rio doesn't have a click-wheel. It has something closer to the older scroll-wheel. The click-wheel (using Apple's terminology for a capacitive scrolling wheel which also had 5 buttons built into the wheel) didn't show up until 2004. I can't find anything that comes very close to it in other portable mp3 players.

The click-wheel was really a turning point for usability, but it probably helped that the iPod had a screen capable of showing multiple menu options/songs. I mean, on that Rio you linked to, how much text even fits on that LCD?

The MP3 player market effectively ceased to exist.

I'm not even going to dignify that ignorant bullshit with a response (beyond calling it out as ignorant bullshit, of course).

Yeah, it was quite an exaggeration. There are still non-Apple mp3 players sold. But they don't get any press to speak of and I can find no indication that they sell particularly well. I've owned several (a Sansa being my favorite) but I tend to fall back to using my iPhone because I always have it with me anyway.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (1)

dead_user (1989356) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447207)

And to me, I hate being tied to one single itunes account. Itunes was the single reason I didn't get an Ipod. My Sansa Clip can be updated anywhere, sounds great, and has ~ an 18 hour usable charge. My iphone has only the essential music loaded on, for when I forget my Clip. If I didn't have to go home to update my phone, I'd change it up more often. At any rate, Pandora always works on my iphone when I want to explore new music.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40449769)

iTunes Match is magic. I have all my music wherever I may be, assuming there is a serviceable Internet connection - and that's pretty much everywhere nowadays. There is no reason to have "all my music" on my iPhone, since I can get so all of it whenever I want.

My iPhone had more space on it than I need, as the contents can be updated whether I am near my computer or not.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (1)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447091)

Obviously you've never heard of WinAmp or the Diamond Rio MP3 player, both of which debuted about half a decade before the first iPod. Apple didn't innovate shit, they copied other people's designs then told you, 'hey, look at this awesome new thing we came up with!' and you got down on your knees like a good little sucker.

The Diamond Rio had a whopping 64 megabytes of storage that, if you felt like dropping the money on it, could be expanded to 128. At best that got you two hours of music. The Nomad (I'm assuming you meant the Nomad and not an MP3 player for Windows....) had more storage than the iPod, but it was physically larger, nearly the size of a portable CD player. Both of those players also required a very slow and clumsy parallel port connection to sync the music and neither came with rechargeable batteries. Let's not forget that iTunes came along and.. well you know the history, there.

They most certainly did innovate. Commercials of silohuetted people dancing on the screen wouldn't account for that many sales over the years.

I'm not even going to dignify that ignorant bullshit with a response (beyond calling it out as ignorant bullshit, of course).

I do agree with this part.

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40449023)

The click wheel

...was one of the worst user interface designs ever committed to hardware.

Scroll through a vertical list by rotating a finger in a circular manner? It doesn't make sense and has no other real-World paradigm on which to draw. Oh, but if you press on certain parts of the wheel it acts as a button, too! Insanity.

If you weren't shown how to use the click-wheel then it was completely unlearnable; the absolute opposite of "intuitive".

Re:How you integrate also counts as innovation (1)

maggern (597586) | more than 2 years ago | (#40450665)

I find the rotating wheel intuitive. Also on my Canon 7D.

Re:Insane! (4, Insightful)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445425)

NFC isn't a feature, use-anywhere mobile payments is a feature. NFC+Google Wallet doesn't deliver use-anywhere.

Delivering universal mobile payments is not a technology problem, it's a business problem.

Re:Insane! (2)

Nerdfest (867930) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445575)

Unfortunately, the odds of Apple playing nice and working with others to implement a "use-anywhere" that's open and usable by everyone are very low.

Re:Insane! (1)

iluvcapra (782887) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445943)

"Playing nice" in this instance doesn't mean making Google, Microsoft or indie developers happy. It means shaking hands with Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America and the Co-Op Interbank Network. Google Wallet plays extremely nice, this doesn't make it successful.

Apple was completely capable of "playing nice" with the record labels, and continues to play nice with the entertainment conglomerates, publishing houses and most software developers (the ones without a political agenda, at least). Technical interoperability or open standards aren't very relevant to this task, banks like their standards as obtuse and proprietary as possible, and they don't want anybody on their data feed but them.

The tough nut for this problem isn't the payor, it's the payee. You can put NFC in everyone's pocket but the killer app will be getting it at every POS -- it'd also be nice if they came up with a system that didn't require a credit card (like Google) or all transactions to a party to be accountholders at the same bank. None of these are problems a technology company can solve. The technology is simple, making the deal is hard.

Re:Insane! (1)

russotto (537200) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448373)

The tough nut for this problem isn't the payor, it's the payee. You can put NFC in everyone's pocket but the killer app will be getting it at every POS -- it'd also be nice if they came up with a system that didn't require a credit card (like Google)

Google Wallet doesn't require a credit card. You can use a prepaid card and fill it from a debit card.

Re:Insane! (1)

Kalriath (849904) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448587)

The USA is not the world. Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America and Co-Op Interbank are a small, maybe even tiny, part of the worldwide banking network. You also have giant abominations like Bank of England, Royal Bank of Scotland, Westpac, etc (depending where in the world you are). The real solution, and the one Google took, is to get in with MasterCard or Visa, and leverage the PayPass/PayWave standards by means of a virtual MasterCard or Visa stored on the device, issued by the hardware vendor to the device owner, and loaded via a bank transfer, credit card topup, or maybe even a direct-debit link to a bank account.

Re:Insane! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445791)

That was my reaction too: I could have sworn nearfield was present for years now. I honestly didn't know Apple phones didn't have it, but I guess I could have guessed... they don't have things like micro-USB or SD slots either.

Re:Insane! (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447307)

The Apple smartphone will finally have feature-parity with other smartphones one-to-two generations after the fact? This must have never happened before!

I actually consider a phone NOT having this NFC crap on it...to be a desirable feature in of itself....

Re:Insane! (1)

Severus Snape (2376318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447311)

The Apple smartphone will finally have feature-parity with other smartphones one-to-two generations after the fact? This must have never happened before!

To quote Steve Jobs, “It isn’t the consumers’ job to know what they want."

Sadly, that fact is true. The iPad proved it.

Re:Insane! (1)

garaged (579941) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447467)

I am a hardcore linux user, and have owned a couple of android phones (currently one) as well as an iphone, ipod touch and a couple of ipads, and I gotta accept that the ipad is one heck of a good tool. Let me elaborate.

The responsiveness of an ipad is way better than any android tablet I have used, for good or bad, the games available to the ipad are way more and better than the ones for android, and please dont missunderstand me, I dont mean quantity, Im talking more about the actual explotation of capabilities. The cost of an ipad in Mexico is as much as any good android tablet, and aome times andoird is more expensive (yeah, weird).

Of course I do jailbreak any iOS device, but I have to do mostly the same to the android ones, so no big win in that field

Maybe Im a fraking fanboi and dont want to see it, but I havent seen any tablet giving me all the thing the ipad does, games, responsiveness, battery life, apps, books, a big enough display....

Re:Insane! (1)

drkstr1 (2072368) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448283)

What about streaming Netflix to you tv from HDMI? Or plugging in some external storage handed to you by a friend? My asus transformer does that, plus a lot more other things that my iPad does not. I do have to agree, the apps are better on the iPad, but I personally get much more use out of the transformer.

Re:Insane! (1)

IKnwThePiecesFt (693955) | more than 2 years ago | (#40449045)

Streaming to a TV via HDMI is achievable via a dongle. Not as elegant to be sure (and not discounting your point, just clarifying a detail) but it is possible.

Re:Insane! (1)

drkstr1 (2072368) | more than 2 years ago | (#40449323)

That's actually good to know, thanks. (ironicly sent from my iPad)

Re:Insane! (1)

ozmanjusri (601766) | more than 2 years ago | (#40449575)

If you need an excuse to buy another gadget, check out this...

Second screen applications involve interactivity between smart phones, tablets, or other devices and TV. A second screen application could be a controller for a Google TV application or it could add more functionality to a Google TV application. For example, the YouTube Remote application enables users to browse videos on their smart phone and play them on Google TV

https://developers.google.com/tv/remote/ [google.com]

Re:Insane! (1)

marsu_k (701360) | more than 2 years ago | (#40451821)

Somewhat completely offtopic, but I was pleasantly surprised when I tried the official XBMC remote for Android on my S3 - not only does it work very well as a remote, it automatically added a "stream to XBMC" option to the OS when playing video. With Youtube this is pretty much a non-issue as I've already a Youtube addon for XBMC, but there are other erm... video sites that were very quick to embrace HTML5 on their mobile sites. So you can browse "videos" on your phone and have them display on your telly automatically. Which is kinda awesome and pointless at the same time.

(on a related and even more offtopic note, anyone know how to set preferred applications only for certain sites? :)

Re:Insane! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40448383)

I am a hardcore linux user

LOL!

Re:Insane! (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448895)

So what does NFC get me? The ability to pay without my wallet? That's not a big advantage.

Really - what is NFC's advantage for the consumer? So far, all I've seen is payment processors like Google and carriers each eating into the pie (and you thought a merchant account and Paypal was bad?), but what's in it for the consumer?

All I see is it's an electronic credit card. Other than carrying my phone instead of having my wallet (which I might need anyways because it has my bus pass and work RFID cards and medical insurance and cash...).

Really, what's in it for me, the consumer?

The only real use I can see for it is bumping into people with my phone and emulating their PayPass cards so I can get free coffee or food for life. (It seems like a big enough advantage to buy an Android phone exclusively... Apple will never allow an app to provide ability to steal money).

Re:Insane! (1)

SpzToid (869795) | more than 2 years ago | (#40449563)

Take A2DP bluetooth for example. Or copy & paste. Or MMS. Nokia offered all for several years before they finally appeared on an iPhone. It was iOS3 actually, released June 17, 2009 when Apple offered those features. The Nokia N95 had those features in March 2007.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOS_version_history#iOS_3.x:_third_major_OS_release [wikipedia.org]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N95#Multimedia_features [wikipedia.org]

Re:Insane! (3, Insightful)

TummyX (84871) | more than 2 years ago | (#40450419)

Rushing to market with a feature that's barely functional or usable is not Apple's usual style. At least I have confidence that NFC integration into iPhones is not going to be next to useless like it is on other phones.

Damn! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40444953)

But I like the AFC better.

Fun! (3, Funny)

girlintraining (1395911) | more than 2 years ago | (#40444965)

Sweet. Now I don't need to be anywhere near you to steal your personal account information and emulate an RFID "card present" transaction (which doesn't require an ID or any of that other security crap like PINs and stuff)... I'll just wait for your phone to download an update for one of the 100 apps that are set to autoupdate whenever it's within range of a wifi, do an injection attack, and then wait for your personal info to appear in my inbox. Oh Apple, it's nice to finally meet someone who understands me!

-- Your Best Fan, J. Random Criminal

Re:Fun! (1)

X0563511 (793323) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445141)

Wait, application updates aren't digitally signed or at least delivered via SSL?

Re:Fun! (2, Insightful)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445153)

If you can already load arbitrary code to an iPhone via a wifi injection attack then there are bigger problems than NFC (which has been in android since 2.3 and is already seeing commercial use, way to lead the market Apple...)

Re:Fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40447237)

If you can already load arbitrary code to an iPhone via a wifi injection attack then there are bigger problems than NFC (which has been in android since 2.3 and is already seeing commercial use, way to lead the market Apple...)

In fact, you can't load arbitrary code to an iPhone via a Wifi injection attack.
And the fact that technology sort of exists in some sort of akward way doesn't necessarily make it very usable.
Same thing as with MP3-Players: They existed in the form of ugly, clumsy devices with aweful UIs, tiny displays and slow USB-Connection and Apple revolutionized the market.

Re:Fun! (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447369)

In fact, you can't load arbitrary code to an iPhone via a Wifi injection attack.

That's nice you have that opinion. The post I was replying to was implying it can be done.

Re:Fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40448979)

If it can be proved true or false, it's not an opinion.

If he said "I like that you can't load arbitrary code to an iPhone via a Wifi injection attack," that would be an opinion.

Re:Fun! (1)

progician (2451300) | more than 2 years ago | (#40451273)

for the mp3 player thing:

You know, this is sort of funny. When the first iPods came about I was horrified by their look. I had a flash drive with 3 buttons on it, and I was able to listen music. It couldn't hold all my music for sure. But 1GB mp3 is plenty music. Also, if you have 1-2GB music, you don't really need any "innovative" UI, just a play/pause button and a next/prev track.

And by the time I thought I would need a better stuff, smartphones have come along, where the UI was given on a touch screen, storage was also plenty and they do other things than playing mp3.

This whole NFC thing is again an other marketing bullshit. There were solid solutions for near field communication before, perhaps most notably PSP. Sticking an additional networking interface isn't such a big deal, doesn't need innovation. For fuck sake, it's just the same ol' wireless networking...

Re:Fun! (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445157)

People have their phones set to auto update without a password? How odd... that would mean that they store their apple id credentials in the phone and if its lost anyone who finds it can buy anything from itunes etc. Never even occurred to me to do such a thing.

Re:Fun! (2)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445207)

You can't do that even if you want to. Even if your details are saved into the phone, you absolutely *must* enter your password at least once to get it to update. If you update one app then there is a grace period where further updates are allowed without re-authenticating, but the original poster's pie in the sky "just wait for the phone to auto update without user input" is simply not on the cards.

new(!) feature in iOS6 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445579)

You can't do that even if you want to. Even if your details are saved into the phone, you absolutely *must* enter your password at least once to get it to update.

In iOS5, what you say is true. If you've been following the threads of developers testing iOS6 you will have read that one of the changes in iOS6 Beta 1 (haven't read yet whether it's still there in today's Beta 2) is that you are never prompted for your password when you download an update of an App.

I do wonder if Apple's intent behind this change was just to allow Apple and App developers to auto-install security updates on your device in much the same way that the latest beta of Mountain Lion removes (1) your ability to control how frequently OSX checks for updates, (2) your ability to control downloads of OSX security updates and (3) your ability to approve, disapprove or postpone installation of downloaded OSX security updates.

Re:Fun! (1)

hAckz0r (989977) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445799)

All software has flaws in it and phones are no exception. I once (several years ago) attended a "demo" in which an iPhone was both 0wned and back-door'ed in under 15 seconds from the time they got the phones IP address on the network. I'm not a liberty to tell you who or how, but I can tell you they did it with ease. Litterally type in the IP, point, click, upload. Done! That being said, that vulnerbility they leveraged no longer exists, but others do. That little demo really made me take notice about the vulnerability of mobile devices specifically, which is why I have been studying the problem over the past couple of years.

In short, mobile phones are essentually just highly connected 'social devices' and they should not be treated as anything but that. Putting the keys to your personal finances on such a device, being it from Google or Apple is just a bad idea. The only saving grace fwould be if that device is tied to a credit card where you actually have the rights to get your money back should it be hacked, stolen, snooped on, or otherwise misused. If instead its tied to your savings or retirement account you can simply kiss it all goodby.

I'm just waiting for the credit card companies to start writing some sort of liability exclusions for mobile devices that they don't sanction, or something like that. Chances are they have not seen the depth of the vulnerabilities and are at the moment just smelling the money. As soon as these devices get popular you can expect the reality-checks to start happening. I will be very suprised if it doesn't happen to at least one of these phone payment systems over the next two years.

Re:Fun! (1)

dimeglio (456244) | more than 2 years ago | (#40446427)

Obviously, it's not something anyone can exploit without some expert knowledge. Since banks insure for theft and there are detailed audit trails for any money spent, you have little to worry about should your phone's NFC get hacked. Just pick your bank wisely.

Re:Fun! (1)

henrym (414280) | more than 2 years ago | (#40446441)

Under IOS 6, you no longer have to enter your password to update apps that are already on your phone. An attack vector? Perhaps, but at least you still have to initiate the download yourself..there isn't any automatic updating feature. I'm personally glad to see this...it's not like the average user really has any idea what the update will do other than "bug fixes".

Re:Fun! (1)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445941)

You must have not met a "random J criminal" they are so stupid they can barely operate a calculator let alone a sophisticated device.

They cant figure out how to get past the simple video camera or home security alarm from ADT....

Yeah, I have no worries at all about this, because it can be easily turned on and off with a setting.

Re:Fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40451801)

The Eastern bloc, Russia in particular, have an abundance of higly skilled, unemployed programmers/engineers that are desperate for work, any work. Their talents are employed by criminal networks, sometimes by force, their loved ones held hostage. Various ATM scams, card skimming, all forms of account intrusion, over the internet, by phone or manually. In the developed part of Europe, this is a very real concern. A lot of criminals from eastern/southeastern Europe are getting arrested for this all over Europe.

Re:Fun! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40446625)

None of the apps auto-update.

Re:Fun! (1)

zedrdave (1978512) | more than 2 years ago | (#40449041)

> I'll just wait for your phone to download an update for one of the 100 apps that are set to autoupdate whenever it's within range of a wifi, do an injection attack

If only software engineer had devised some sort of method to ensure that code ran on the OS had not been tampered with. And if only Apple engineers had heard of it [apple.com] .

If somebody ever comes up with such a clever method to foil J. Random Criminal's cunning ploy, I suggest we call it something that brings to mind the analogy with real-world transaction authentication adapted to computer systems... "Digital signing", maybe?

AFC Snubbed!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40444997)

How will the NFL respond?

Yuo 7ail 1t (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445161)

of OpenBSD versus haEs steadily purposes *BSD is non-fucking-existant. then disappeared [idge.net]

Follow the leader (1, Informative)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445287)

Whoa, don't tell me Apple is playing follow the leader with Google [android.com] . I thought Apple always thinks of everything first, and this is why they like to sue everybody.

Re:Follow the leader (3, Insightful)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445713)

Yes, except the crucial difference is Apple is going with a standard for a change (unlike Google's original implementation).

And I know it's a tired old meme, but Apple rarely thinks of anything first. The reason that they're so successful is that they are very effective at judging what the consumer wants, and refining things that already exist but could be easier to use/more fun/more refined (all in one computer, portable music player, tablet computer, smartphone etc).

Re:Follow the leader (3, Informative)

swillden (191260) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448915)

Apple is going with a standard for a change (unlike Google's original implementation).

Google Wallet is an implementation of MasterCard's Paypass, which is a standardized variant of EMV. There's nothing non-standard about Google's implementation. They had to choose MasterCard Paypass, Visa Paywave or Discover Zip so that it would work on the already-deployed acceptance devices, but all three are basically interoperable and all are based on EMV standards. I'm sure Paypass was selected based on who was interested in partnering, though I don't actually know how that choice was made.

(Note: I work for Google, on technology related to Wallet. I also worked in the smart card and NFC industry for nearly 15 years before joining Google.)

Re:Follow the leader (2)

jo_ham (604554) | more than 2 years ago | (#40450277)

That is interesting information to know. Like a man in orthopeadic shoes, I stand corrected.

Re:Follow the leader (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#40449753)

Yes, except the crucial difference is Apple is going with a standard for a change (unlike Google's original implementation).

To be fair to Google. I don't think that was their intent, it was initially just a bug on their part that was eventually fixed over the air.

And yes, Android has bugs on occasion, just like iOS has bugs on occasion as well.

Re:Follow the leader (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445769)

Apple don't normally claim to be inventors. They take what exists and make it better (evolutionary rather than revolutionary).
I also don't believe Apple are in the business of suing people all that much (although the Samsung business is getting old fast).

Oh yeah, iTunes SUCKS

Re:Follow the leader (1)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40446017)

I also don't believe Apple are in the business of suing people all that much

Wow, no wonder you posted anon.

Re:Follow the leader... meaning Nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445831)

NFC Forum was founded by Nokia, Sony and Philips in 2004. The first device with NFC was Nokia 6131 in 2006.

cwww.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Nokia_6131_NFC_-_FAQs [slashdot.org]

obviously (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445551)

anybody who watched the keynote and saw the passbook feature of ios6 had to know this was coming

What is NFC? (1)

canadiannomad (1745008) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445843)

After reading TFA and other sources, I still am not clear on what the NFC chip does, and what its benefits are...... ?

Re:What is NFC? (3, Informative)

MachDelta (704883) | more than 2 years ago | (#40446195)

It's a very (very) short range RFID chip. It can read/respond to RFID tags like those found on credit cards ("swipe to pay"), and so can become a replacement for your credit cards or other bank cards. The idea is, one day, instead of carrying a wallet you'll just carry your phone and pay for everything that way.

It has other uses too, like using an RFID tag to trigger certain behaviors in a phone (eg: putting one behind the phone cradle in your car, which triggers bluetooth, opens navigation, turns vibration off, etc etc) but they're secondary as far as the general public is concerned.

Re:What is NFC? (1)

dimeglio (456244) | more than 2 years ago | (#40446465)

It's a money draining technology. It's great if you're on the receiving end or insanely rich.

Re:What is NFC? (1)

John Jorsett (171560) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448457)

I had to go go Google to look it up. Would it KILL people to not assume that everyone knows every damned acronym in the universe when they submit articles?

Re:What is NFC? (1)

stephanruby (542433) | more than 2 years ago | (#40450023)

NFC by itself, doesn't do much, but layer it with other technologies, and that's when some of its benefits really shine through.

For instance, combine NFC with Bluetooth, and pairing with a Bluetooth headset (even one that your phone has never paired with before) becomes as simple as unlocking your screen lock, and tapping the back of your phone to your Bluetooth headset (the screen lock in this case is usually used as a precaution that you do not accidentally trigger NFC events on your phone when your phone sits in one of your pockets and might accidentally touch a tag)

And combine NFC with web access, and just unlock your screen, and tap your phone to go to a web site url (even one with a unique id so long, you would never enter it manually). In that sense, NFC replaces the camera Qr code scanner that many of us have used before, but it's actually very usable so you keep using it even once the novelty wears off. With NFC, you don't have to fumble around with holding your cell phone just above a Qr code, and you don't have to fumble around with having to find an application first (since NFC is very low power, the NFC detection will normally be turned on all the time in the background, and once the tag is detected, the relevant application(s) will be triggered and launched accordingly).

Which bears repeating, an NFC-based application can be triggered and launched automatically by touching a tag with your phone And if you compare that to a Qr code scanner, not only that Qr code scanner needs to be manually launched, but once it finds something it recognizes (for instance, let's say it recognizes a full url, it confronts you with another dialog box asking you if you want to go to that url, thus interrupting your user flow once again, when an NFC would have just opened the web browser to that page -- no questions asked).

Of course, NFC is more than that still, it even has different modes, but I don't want to confuse you with too many different examples. Just think of those two simpler examples I mentioned above. Those are some of its most basic examples.

shi7! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40447519)

a losing battle; aapeared...sayinG FreeBSD showed

The REAL meaning (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40447563)

In my world NFC=No Fucking Clue. Apparently it will apply ti Apple's world also.

NFC is pointless when everyone has Bluetooth 4.0 (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 2 years ago | (#40447955)

I don't understand why people think Apple will have anything to do with NFC when they have already been setting things up for quite some time to use Bluetooth 4.0 for the same applications.

Why have both? All Apple needs to do is push stores to offer bluetooth 4.0 compatible equipment, which should cost about as much as NFC handling equipment... and it's not even like Bluetooth is not a standard.

Re:NFC is pointless when everyone has Bluetooth 4. (1)

catmistake (814204) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448277)

I don't understand why people think Apple will have anything to do with NFC when they have already been setting things up for quite some time to use Bluetooth 4.0 for the same applications.

Why have both? All Apple needs to do is push stores to offer bluetooth 4.0 compatible equipment, which should cost about as much as NFC handling equipment... and it's not even like Bluetooth is not a standard.

I don't necessarily believe its how Apple sees it, but IMO, from the very start until today, Bluetooth is all hype, a cool word for a technology that had a narrow window of usefulness that is somehow clinging to the perception of relevance. Except for wireless peripherals like mice and keyboards, every other implementation is a poor match. I have yet to hear or hear of any Bluetooth headset that do not make the audio of your cell call sound about half as good as landlines from the 1920's, and the experience is always worse than that for the person at the other end of the call. The idea that A2DP provided high fidelity stereo audio wirelessly from your device sound files was, to put it simply, bullshit. At the time when it could have mattered, file transfer was painfully slow, and if that bandwidth has increased to useful speeds, it is already superfluous as faster wireless protocols have become nealy ubiquitous. Bluetooth was a trendy logo and a name that has somehow inserted itself into the collective consciousness as necessary technology, and yet it still fails to deliver anything that is anywhere near acceptable beyond the simple wireless input peripheral.

End of NFC then (1)

Teknikal69 (1769274) | more than 2 years ago | (#40448913)

Knowing Apple they will probably patent it or something obvious to do with it and then demand import bans on all the handset manufacturers who already have it for copying their unique innovations. I actually used to like Apple just can't stand the way they do business any more.

NFC chip? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40449157)

Cool, nice to see they're joining everyone else with no fucking clue

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