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Arizona H-1B Workers Advised to Carry Papers At All Times

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the snuck-in-through-the-indo-american-wormhole dept.

Government 884

dcblogs writes "In the wake of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling Monday on Arizona's immigration enforcement law, H-1B workers are being advised to keep their papers on them. About half of all H-1B visa holders are employed in tech occupations. The court struck down several parts of Arizona's law but nonetheless left in place a core provision allowing police officers to check the immigration status of people in the state at specific times. How complicated this gets may depend on the training of the police officer, his or her knowledge of work visas, and whether an H-1B worker in the state has an Arizona's driver's license. An Arizona state driver's license provides the presumption of legal residency. Nonetheless, H-1B workers could become entangled in this law and suffer delays and even detention while local police, especially those officers and departments unfamiliar with immigration documentation."

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License and registration please? (5, Funny)

SoundGuyNoise (864550) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445373)

Your other license and registration please.

Re:License and registration please? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445613)

MIB

I Wonder If They'll Check White People (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445397)

You know, they could be Russian mafia or that guy from Wikileaks.

Somehow, I doubt it.

Re:I Wonder If They'll Check White People (5, Insightful)

bigjarom (950328) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445471)

I'm a caucasian Canadian citizen living in Arizona on TN-status as a Management Consultant, and I have a valid Arizona driver's license. I doubt that I will be randomly asked for my immigration papers. I somehow don't think that I'm the reason Jan Brewer, Joe Arpaio and company came up with this law.

Re:I Wonder If They'll Check White People (2)

chrismcb (983081) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445591)

, and I have a valid Arizona driver's license. I doubt that I will be randomly asked for my immigration papers..

FTA:

An Arizona state driver's license provides the presumption of legal residency

So yeah, if you have an AZ driver license, I doubt they'll ask you "papers please"

This reminds me of something... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445407)

Papiere, Bitte!

Re:This reminds me of something... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445483)

If you run, they will shoot you in the back

Re:This reminds me of something... (3, Insightful)

Paracelcus (151056) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445839)

Javol, Heir!

It is getting like cold war Europe or occupied France and kind of like an old style Soviet republic too.

this is new how? (4, Insightful)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445411)

You mean like the work authorization card that you are supposed to carry ANYWAY?

Re:this is new how? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445439)

No, its work authorization papers, typically many pages long.

Re:this is new how? (3, Insightful)

Stirling Newberry (848268) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445455)

Your papers please. Don't tell me you don't have them. What, am I supposed to believe you are a citizen? You need to come with me.

Re:this is new how? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445931)

Don't be ridiculous. They won't say please.

Re:this is new how? (1, Insightful)

Idbar (1034346) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445581)

Having and H-1B (or F-1 or some long term stay visa), entitles you to get a driver license, which is what you use to identify yourself.

You're telling me, if you're an American, and the cops think your accent is funny, they can ask you for your work authorization card and make your life impossible?

Re:this is new how? (4, Informative)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445655)

If you are on a greencard you must carry that with you at all times. EAD, same thing.

A driver's license is not proof of citizenship.

Re:this is new how? (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445683)

ok, maybe not EAD. But greencard, yes

Re:this is new how? (5, Insightful)

Idbar (1034346) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445951)

Which still doesn't answer my question:
How do American citizens show they are allowed to work in the US in case they're stopped.

Re:this is new how? (1)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445699)

If you are on a greencard you must carry that with you at all times. EAD, same thing.

A driver's license is not proof of citizenship.

Citizenship? Who said anything about citizenship? We're talking about legal residency which a driver's license should be enough to prove since it's kinda hard to get one of them without producing the paperwork to prove that you're in the country legitimately.

Re:this is new how? (1)

lgw (121541) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445739)

A drivers licences is enough evidence of citizenship under this AZ law where the policeman can't bother you further about it. I htink in practice that will extende to any sort of documentation of legal entry - the police aren't looking for the corner cases here.

Re:this is new how? (2)

Idbar (1034346) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445817)

Which is exactly my point. What's your proof of citizenship on-site if a cop decides to ask you for one?

The recent changes in state regulations that ask foreign people to renew their driver license is a mechanism to enforce immigration policies. I'd have agreed if, like a couple of years ago, the driver license was given for the same 5 years as the citizens.

But I'm really wondering what are the implications of this for citizens, would they have to carry passports as well?

Re:this is new how? (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445873)

That could be part of the drive for the Passport Card which was introduced a few years ago.

Re:this is new how? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445855)

A driver's license is not proof of citizenship.

No, it's not. As an American... where's your proof that you're legally allowed to work in the US?

Re:this is new how? (2)

MightyYar (622222) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445945)

I've always had to show my social security card at a new job.

Re:this is new how? (5, Interesting)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445877)

If you are a tourist you are screwed. The US government itself recommends you leave your passport in the hotel safe rather than risk losing it and the problem and time required to obtain a replacement. The obvious problem is as a foreign tourist in Arizona if you get robbed and your passport is stolen, should you attempt to report it you will immediately be arrested placed in privatised for profit prison for lack of identification, forcing you to leave the state prior to reporting the crime or simply avoiding the state along with the rest of the US just to be safe.

Okay, but... (5, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445417)

...not to be too facetious here, but how often does someone from India or Russia sneak in over the Arizona/Mexico border?

Seriously - this state law was built to stem the tide of one particular group of people. Forget your position on it and all, but consider that Montana certainly has no such laws, even though it borders a different nation as well.

Re:Okay, but... (3, Informative)

Stirling Newberry (848268) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445459)

In Alabama a German executive was detailed. Your papers please.

Re:Okay, but... (2, Funny)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445751)

In Alabama a German executive was detailed.

And this is a problem? When I get my car detailed it costs me good money. I should think he'd be happy.

Re:Okay, but... (3, Funny)

Stirling Newberry (848268) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445881)

Very good, you can recognize a pun. Maybe you speak enough English to be a citizen. But just in case, your papers please.

Re:Okay, but... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445961)

The law is RACIST because it will only be applied to the poor brown Mexican migrant workers. Then it gets applied to a white European executive. Oh well, back to the Stasi argument.

Inflow vs outflow (2)

MrEricSir (398214) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445543)

In Montana's case, maybe the Canadians should build a fence?

Or no, that's right -- Canada doesn't want to make it a pain the ass to visit their country, unlike the US.

Re:Inflow vs outflow (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445639)

Or no, that's right -- Canada doesn't want to make it a pain the ass to visit their country, unlike the US.

Riiiiight, that's why they're coming here. To visit us.

Re:Inflow vs outflow (1)

Ogive17 (691899) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445649)

So Canada will let anyone smuggle themselves into the country and allow them to stay however long they want?

Re:Inflow vs outflow (3, Insightful)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445953)

So Canada will let anyone smuggle themselves into the country and allow them to stay however long they want?

No, but we tend to do more cost/benefit analysis on programs than do our American friends. If illegal immigration is costing Canada one billions dollars per year then it doesn't make sense to spend 3 billion building a fence (these are just made-up numbers to make a point). Certainly criminals are deported, but some illegal picking apples in the summer and shovelling driveways in the winter is not likely to get much attention focused on him because it's cheaper to let him stay.

Re:Inflow vs outflow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445719)

If Montana residents made up 5% of a Canadian city's demographic, and caused 90% of its violent crime (including human trafficking, armed narcotics trafficking, etc.) Canada might rethink its "open borders" policy with Montana.

Unless you want to argue that a single demographic swelling your violent crime by a factor of 10 is okey dokey.

Re:Okay, but... (1, Interesting)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445667)

maybe it because there aren't as many welfare sucking illegal Canadian immigrants because they already have free health.

Re:Okay, but... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445671)

Right, because there's a flow of Canadian illegals flooding into America to take advantage of our well-fare and medical system.

Re:Okay, but... (1)

KhabaLox (1906148) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445701)

how often does someone from India or Russia sneak in over the Arizona/Mexico border?

How often will an Arizona cop mistake someone from South or Southeast Asia for someone from Central or South America?

Re:Okay, but... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445753)

They're Mexicans coming over and dropping their anchor babies in place. And no, they're not "illegal aliens", they're undocumented Democrats!

I'm from Russia, and I was stopped at Arizona (5, Interesting)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445785)

I'm from Russia, and I was stopped at Arizona when I was there to see the Grand Canyon, I was originally on a business trip to California but had several free days. I'd been asked for papers when I was stopped by a police officer for riding a bicycle on sidewalk.

I didn't have my passport with me so a police officer offered to drive me to my hotel to fetch it or to drive me to the police station to check my identity there. I'd chosen to be driven to my hotel, I have a valid B1/B2 visa so it was not a problem for me.

When will we realize... (3, Insightful)

Darkness404 (1287218) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445419)

When will we realize that immigrants, "legal" and otherwise do not cause problems but rather raise the standard of living for -everyone-?

Re:When will we realize... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445505)

When will we realize that immigrants, "legal" and otherwise do not cause problems but rather raise the standard of living for -everyone-?

When it actually becomes true.

Or am I missing something? Maybe Mexico's drug cartels are somehow raising the standard of living here in California and other states? I suppose we can consider them a 'bailout' to crime scene cleanup companies.

Re:When will we realize... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445677)

Exactly. Here in California, the children of the illegal folks get free lunches at school. I'd love to see my tax money going to educating my kids who were legally born in the state. My taxes shouldn't be paying for the education and food for illegal immigrant's (who often pay no taxes themselves) children. I'm not sure why INS doesn't raid the parking lot at our nearby Home Depot more often.

Re:When will we realize... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445513)

[citation needed]. I am an Indian immigrant on H1-B and would love to check your sources.

Re:When will we realize... (-1, Troll)

Vinegar Joe (998110) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445555)

You might want to read this GAO report:

"In our population study of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990."

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-646R [gao.gov]

Re:When will we realize... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445659)

You mean to say that a study of 55,000 illegal aliens already in jail found that almost all of them had been arrested?? Shocking.

You then use that to cast aspersions on the other millions of aliens in the country, illegal or legal. Hmm - somehow, less shocking.

You should probably also read it. (5, Informative)

fredmosby (545378) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445703)

These numbers are for illegal immigrants with a criminal record. Not illegal immigrants in general. It says nothing about the rate of arrests for the general population.

Re:When will we realize... (3, Insightful)

dr2chase (653338) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445729)

Arrest != crime. Arrest can also indicate mere harassment by police.

Re:When will we realize... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445733)

You might want to read this GAO report:

"In our population study of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990."

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-646R [gao.gov]

Their study only considered illegal aliens that had actually been arrested. The high number of arrests per illegal alien in their study confirms that a small number of illegal aliens are getting arrested over and over while most are not getting arrested at all.

Re:When will we realize... (2, Insightful)

causality (777677) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445879)

You might want to read this GAO report:

"In our population study of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990."

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-646R [gao.gov]

Unfortunately, the people who oppose this aren't concerned about facts. This is their religious cause. Ignoring facts is how they demonstrate the depth of their faith.

If they did care about the facts, they would have already done the research, already come to the one correct conclusion, and admitted that their previous position was knee-jerk, emotionally driven, and mistaken. Then they'd actually change their minds and you'd never hear the old view from them again. Maybe they'd also learn an unforgettable lesson about informing yourself prior to vehemently taking a position on something.

That's what they would do if they were concerned about facts: the easily-researched, easily-comprehended facts of the matter. Clearly, they are not concerned about facts. They do seem to care about hand-waving, turning basic law enforcement (and anything else they don't like) into a racial/ethic issue, and saving face. In the absence of facts supporting their position, using the term "racist" as a weapon is all they have.

There are issues where multiple valid positions are possible. There are topics which are opinion-based in nature. This isn't one of those. To maintain a verifiably false position in the face of multiple contradictory facts is a degree of self-deception and insanity I find difficult to comprehend. It's simply psychotic (that is, indicates no contact with reality).

They remind me of the flat-earth adherents.

Re:When will we realize... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445903)

You might want to read this GAO report:

"In our population study of 55,322 illegal aliens, we found that they were arrested at least a total of 459,614 times, averaging about 8 arrests per illegal alien. Nearly all had more than 1 arrest. Thirty-eight percent (about 21,000) had between 2 and 5 arrests, 32 percent (about 18,000) had between 6 and 10 arrests, and 26 percent (about 15,000) had 11 or more arrests. Most of the arrests occurred after 1990."

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-05-646R [gao.gov]

If you take the time to read the report all the way to the second page, you notice the study is based on illegal immigrants that had criminal record, not all illegal population.

Re:When will we realize... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445589)

They are willing to work for very low wages, which pulls wages down for everyone. Companies are then forced to pay those lower wages to compete against the other companies that already pay low wages, thus pulling wages down for the entire working class.

This might be good for those at the top of the pile, but not for the rest of us. And the cost savings that could in theory be passed on to the consumer are in actuality passed on to the CEO's quartly bonuses.

Furthermore, since the foreigners accept such low wages, they must pack themselves like rats in to living accomodations that are too small for their group. This increases wear and tear on the property, devalues the property, devalues neighboring properties, and spreads disease.

I am sorry that things are even worse for them back home, but I am not so full of compassion that I am willing to put up with such a broad making-worse of things here in order to help them escape. They can fix their problems at home themselves, while we tend to ours.

Re:When will we realize... (4, Insightful)

Gordonjcp (186804) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445789)

They are willing to work for very low wages, which pulls wages down for everyone. Companies are then forced to pay those lower wages to compete against the other companies that already pay low wages, thus pulling wages down for the entire working class.

So, make it trivially easy for them to be in the country legally, and thus entitled to the same workplace requirements as everyone else - minimum wage, etc.

That way they can't get tossed out of the country and they can't be exploited by dodgy companies who expect them to put up with ridiculously low wages if they don't want to be grassed up. This then means that they're no longer cheaper to hire than locals, so you may as well hire locals instead of giving the job to immigrants.

Simple enough.

Re:When will we realize... (5, Interesting)

Kenja (541830) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445603)

As a Native American, I disagree.

Re:When will we realize... (-1, Troll)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445661)

The Americas were militarily conquered. You have no claim to the land after that.

Re:When will we realize... (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445905)

the claim in question here is to moral authority, not who can piss on the most trees and claim territory like a dog

welcome to politics: who can appear to be most right, therefore becomes might. an inversion of might makes right. the story now is about who can appeal to the most people, not who can shoot the most people

thus, less graves, more peace: progress

now we have to work on the part where people still gain power by appealing only to the ugliest side of human nature they can find, the worst fears, the stupidest thinking

so that's more progress ahead of us as a nation that we need

Re:When will we realize... (4, Insightful)

trout007 (975317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445633)

The only problems with immigrants are due to our own stupid laws that attract the wrong kind of immigrants and the problems they bring. The war on drugs brings the drug gangs, the war on poverty brings the destitute that aren't here to work but be a parasite, and the war on terror brings the ever elusive mid-eastern terrorist posing as a mexican.

Re:When will we realize... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445783)

your an idiot. An imigrant will compete with you for any work, less work makes it more diffuclt for you to have work. Immigrants also send the money back to their home country so no-taxes, free health care, and take money out of u.s. circulation meaning it almost seems that job does not excist but its being psudo outsourced this is for both mexican and indian. Please tell me in this basic equation who does this benefit the immigrant or the nation where they immagrate to?

Re:When will we realize... (2)

jmerlin (1010641) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445947)

We're talking about H-1Bs, not immigrants. Yes, it is a fact that a H-1B visa is *NOT* an immigration visa, it is a temporary employment in the USA which allows that person to relocate here for the duration of employment.

But I'll bite. Here's why people are upset about it: To get H-1Bs, companies must jump through hoops, and those hoops damage our job market and the value of our jobs. Also, H-1Bs are willing to accept a lower salary because they get to live in the USA without immigrating. This is why companies like them (not because they might actually be skilled workers).

AZ ftl (1, Troll)

pak9rabid (1011935) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445437)

I'm convinced that the state of Arizona just hates anyone that either isn't white, or from the US.

Re:AZ ftl (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445493)

Of course we do; "they tirrrkk errrr JERRRBBSS."

Re:AZ ftl (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445679)

A state can't hate or love anyone.

Re:AZ ftl (1)

Roachie (2180772) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445841)

Never been to Arizona, have you?

not really (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445447)

My guess is the vast majority of H1-B visa holders come from a different part of the world than those who are causing the problems that are driving states to enforce immigration laws. Just a guess...

Re:not really (1)

PCM2 (4486) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445599)

Also, a 2012 report shows Arizona companies have applied for 4,387 work visas. [myvisajobs.com] The average salary for these positions is $75,473. The most recent U.S. Census data (compiled through 2007) shows the average salary in Arizona [about.com] is $47,750. So something tells me the people who might actually have these visas are not the same people who are getting pulled over in beat-up white Ford pickup trucks.

Papers? Don't Need No Stinkin' Papers! (2)

rueger (210566) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445499)

I've always wondered what would happen if you just appeared with no papers of any sort - no fingerprints on file, no proof of citizenship or residency, no SS number, no passport.

Suppose you appeared in the middle of Arizona and stated that you are a natural born American citizen, and that you were born at home so there are no records?

What would happen if no-one carried any identification?

Re:Papers? Don't Need No Stinkin' Papers! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445601)

If you truly are a citizen, there is no requirement that you carry any form of identification, however if a police officer asks you your name, you'd better either tell him the truth or remain silent. Lying can get you into big trouble.

Re:Papers? Don't Need No Stinkin' Papers! (3, Interesting)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445869)

You need to be careful with being quiet too. At least in my state (Texas), refusing to provide your name, date of birth, and home address if you've been arrested and the officer has asked it of you is considered an additional offense. Several other states criminalize refusing to provide your name [wikipedia.org] even before you're arrested.

Re:Papers? Don't Need No Stinkin' Papers! (5, Insightful)

dr2chase (653338) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445935)

So, you can prove you're a citizen by carrying no papers? :-)

That's what's always impressed me about these laws -- in theory, citizens need not carry papers, but if you don't, how does that "discussion" with the cop usually go? Of course *I* don't have to worry about this, I'm a fat old white guy. It's obviously discriminatory, it's intended to be discriminatory, and it's understood to be discriminatory. If *I* (and my kids) had to carry papers around all the time or risk arrest, I'd be furious. But I'm supposed to be okay with the law, because I'm white, so "we all know" that won't happen to me, it's only a problem for "other people". Bleah. This law has to go.

Re:Papers? Don't Need No Stinkin' Papers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445717)

Depends, what is your skin tone?

Re:Papers? Don't Need No Stinkin' Papers! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445723)

the proof of non-citizenship rests on the state. you can be required to state your name and where you live, that's it.

Aren't they required to by Federal Law anyway? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445521)

I thought that Federal Law required non-citizen aliens to carry documentation.

Re:Aren't they required to by Federal Law anyway? (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445557)

I thought that Federal Law required non-citizen aliens to carry documentation.

That's what MIB is for.

Arizona can be scary (5, Funny)

kurt555gs (309278) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445539)

I'm a mid 50's white guy. I always keep my passport with me when I travel through Arizona. One never knows. From a distance, at night, I may be suspected of being a Canadian.

An alternate approach (5, Interesting)

nickovs (115935) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445563)

As someone who doesn't have US citizenship but who lives and works in the US, creating businesses that have hired hundreds of people (including plenty of H1-B holders) I have an alternate approach; I shall simply be avoiding Arizona as much as possible. I shall not be holding any group meetings there, I'll see what I can do to avoid conventions there or transfers through PHX and they can kiss goodbye to any prospect of my opening offices there. I'm probably too white to actually be harassed under this law but that doesn't make it any less disgusting to me.

Re:An alternate approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445631)

this is actually the correct way to fight this. thank you for bringing your talents to OUR country. may you become a rich mother fucker!

Re:An alternate approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445853)

I second the last comment, Good keep out the Indians non native americans out as well.

Re:An alternate approach (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445643)

I don't think Arizona needs any of your knock-off Snuggies anyway...

Re:An alternate approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445709)

If you're a resident alien or foreign visitor in the USA, it's already required by federal law that you carry your (gasp) p-p-p-papers. And just so you know, federal Border Patrol presence is extremely high in Arizona because it's a border state, you can hit a federal "border checkpoint" as far inland as a hundred miles where they WILL expect you to be obeying the law. If you don't have your (shudder) papers, you're fucked at the federal level.

Re:An alternate approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445797)

And just so you know, federal Border Patrol presence is extremely high in Arizona because it's a border state

Right. That's why Washington, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine all have any similar laws on the books...

Oh wait, they don't

Re:An alternate approach (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445893)

You probably live somewhere where the word "Coyote" is only used in reference to canis latrans.

What company do you work for? I don't want to buy and rely on any products made by someone as detached from reality as you are.

Congratulations Arizona! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445585)

Your requirement for people to carry such papers at all times has elevated you to a new level!
You have now joined the ranks of South Africa around 1912, Nazi Germany and Iran!

Way to go!

Re:Congratulations Arizona! (2)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445727)

There is NOTHING wrong with requiring non-citizens (guests) to carry ID at all times. They are guests in our country and will act according to the law we put forth or leave.

Good. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445587)

"Nonetheless, H-1B workers could become entangled in this law and suffer delays and even detention while local police..."

Good.

Isn't it the law already? (5, Informative)

saikou (211301) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445641)

I'm pretty sure that non-citizens were required to carry "registration" papers with them before. But hey, not everything gets enforced...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1304

(e) Personal possession of registration or receipt card; penalties
Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d) of this section. Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both.

Re:Isn't it the law already? (3, Interesting)

Glendale2x (210533) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445819)

I don't really see what all this whining is about. My dad did not become a US citizen until after I graduated from high school and he had a resident alien card in his wallet next to his driver's license. His citizenship was delayed for a long time due to processing backlog. In that interim period though it didn't seem to be a big deal. Why is this hard?

Much ado about nothing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445675)

Anyone suggesting that SB1070 will bring about widespread harassment of legal foreign residents is either unfamiliar with the law or simply trying to further their own political cause.

i still struggle to determine (3, Insightful)

nimbius (983462) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445681)

why states enact these laws other than pandering to their geriatric neoconservative constituents and ginning up a scapegoat for high unemployment rates.

Re:i still struggle to determine (1)

sconeu (64226) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445787)

You answered your own question.

"Pandering to their geriatric neoconservative constitutents" = votes.
votes = power.

Re:i still struggle to determine (1)

lgw (121541) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445845)

It's not about "they terk or jerrbs", it's about rampant crime that accompanies illegal immigration. The Mexican drug cartels are very strong in some areas of AZ, and there are serious problems with violent crime.

Just like legalizing drugs would make most drug crime vanish, legalizing immigration would make most of this crime vanish. But as things stand, it's extremely easy to smuggle people and things over the border, and the drug gangs are going wild with that. Since we're unlikely to legalize either thing soon, the local police really do need more tools to try to keep basic civilization intact (no joke - there are "no-go zones" for American citizens in AZ right now, law enforcement is simply overwhelmed in places).

So turnabout is fair play right? (0)

Chas (5144) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445735)

So we can see beaners kicking the crap out of cops, tossing them over the border into Mexico, then turning to anyone watching and go "No ticket!"

Right?

"Must Identify" now requires proof? (5, Insightful)

Okian Warrior (537106) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445755)

Many states have implemented "must identify [wikipedia.org] " laws, which state that you must identity yourself (correctly) to a policeman when asked. Depending on the state, you're also required to correctly answer other questions, such as "what you are doing there, where did you come from, where you are going".

These laws were brought to the attention of the supreme court, which stated flatly that these laws were constitutional so long as no proof of identity was required. Short of an arrest, police cannot demand proof of ID just for being in an area. (I don't believe that proof of license to drive a car on the highway has been addressed directly.)

With this new ruling, states can pass laws that allow police to detain anyone who cannot prove their identity, on the theory that they *might* be illegal immigrants.

The "must identify" laws effectively did away with anonymous meetings and anonymous protest. The police can simply wait outside any meeting and ask the participants their names as they leave.

Now they can demand proof of ID as well.

The right to peaceably assemble anonymously, the right to be in public anonymously, the right to protest anonymously is gone.

So if I'm not from Arizona... (1)

DamnStupidElf (649844) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445763)

How do I prove that I'm a U.S. citizen with only an out-of-state drivers' license? Bring a copy of my birth certificate? Or maybe being white non-hispanic will be a sufficient proof of my citizenship?

Thanks a fucking lot editors. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445809)

"Nonetheless, H-1B workers could become entangled in this law and suffer delays and even detention while local police, especially those officers and departments unfamiliar with immigration documentation."

While local police do *what*? Please finish your fucking sentences. Did you even go to school?

I have an easier solution (1)

rrohbeck (944847) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445813)

Maybe they should require all foreigners to wear a yellow paper star on the outside of their clothing.

Re:I have an easier solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40445863)

Godwin's Law.

Too many papers (1)

sci-fi fantasies (2670099) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445833)

I bet some of them get tired of carrying those papers

More lawyer nonsense (1)

bhlowe (1803290) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445851)

This "advisement" is being made by immigration lawyers.. Who make a majority of their money from people who are in the country illegally. This is simply a lame attempt to deflect attention from the real problem--people who are here illegally. Of course, if you get detained for an actual crime, you may need to phone someone to provide citizenship status--no papers on person required.

Arizona Drivers (2)

Roachie (2180772) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445867)

Required to carry 'papers' too. Fucking Nazis!!!!

welcome to the U.S. (1)

sribe (304414) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445923)

(S.R.) ;-)

Which means.... (3, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40445929)

Okay, so the immigrant workers are going to carry their papers. And many of the illegal ones, or at least the smart ones, will carry forged papers - at least ones good enough to pass cursory inspection.

But what about the native-born citizens? Not everyone has a driver's license (or an Arizona license - would my Virginia driver's license count as "proof of citizenship"?), and I highly doubt citizens will be carrying around their birth certificates or anything - after all, they're not immigrants, why should they be concerned about an immigration law.

This is basically carte blanche for the police to harass anyone, and non-immigrants are going to be surprisingly affected.

In any case, I'm now mentally filing "Arizona" next to "East Germany", because both require me to have my papers in ordnung (and because both are effectively in the past - E.G. literally, Arizona figuratively).

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