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Microsoft Trying To Woo Businesses To Windows 8

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the betting-the-farm-on-colorful-rectangles dept.

Windows 442

jfruh writes "Windows 8 is the most radical rewrite of Microsoft's operating system in decades — and most of the changes are aimed at consumers and new tablet form-factors. Meanwhile, corporate IT is deeply suspicious. Over at Microsoft TechEd Europe, the company is gamely trying to explain to enterprises why they should switch, with easy-to-write enterprise apps and the ability to stream server-side x86 apps to Windows RT. Not everyone is convinced."

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442 comments

Fat chance. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472671)

We're still about a year away from mass deploying Windows 7 Enterprise with our upcoming lease swap. I highly doubt we'll even think about touching Windows 8 for a while after that. I have a better chance of getting laid in the next 5 years.

Re:Fat chance. (1)

Xenx (2211586) | about 2 years ago | (#40472859)

I have a better chance of getting laid in the next 5 years.

You say that almost as if it might be true!

Re:Fat chance. (5, Funny)

inode_buddha (576844) | about 2 years ago | (#40473463)

I don't doubt it one bit. After all, Debian had 2 releases since the last time I had any. And yes that fact was quite depressing at the time. I now measure my "laid" interval in debian-releases.

Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (5, Insightful)

Hardhead_7 (987030) | about 2 years ago | (#40472711)

IT Departments are innately conservative. Doing something different can get you fired. It's the same thing that led to the "no one ever got fired for buying Windows" line in the '90s. Hell, IT Departments are just now beginning to get off of XP. A radical change like 8? It's not going to fly. Windows 8 needs to become "normal" to the IT Department before they'll allow it in. In fact, I bet it'll end up being a lot like Vista. IT will hold off until 9, when issues that crop up with Windows 8 have been ironed out.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472751)

Very true. The corporate world has a tendency to go with every second Windows release. Windows 7 is just becoming common in the corporate world, and Windows 9 will be the next big thing they'll consider.

But Microsoft has to try. They tried with Vista, they're trying with 8, and they'll try with 10, after corporations have finally embraced 9.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (4, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 years ago | (#40473233)

Hence Software Asurance, where they get your money and get to say you've licensed it, even though you'll never even do a pilot. They win anyway.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (5, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | about 2 years ago | (#40472755)

And it took forever for IT departments to switch off of NT4 or 2K to XP.

Microsoft's biggest competition is its older versions.

--
BMO

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472809)

Secure boot isn't meant to kill off linux. It's meant to kill off XP

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (2)

bmo (77928) | about 2 years ago | (#40472901)

And then BMO was enlightened.

--
BMO

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (3, Interesting)

Tough Love (215404) | about 2 years ago | (#40472965)

Well, I would add "meant to kill off XP And Linux".

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473255)

Any IT department that can jerry-rig WinXP onto modern hardware can figure out how to disable secure boot. It's more of a management question of becoming SecureBoot(tm)-compliant (that is, get the budget for an upgrade because the systems are 'insecure'.)

Solutions for Linux, less for XP (5, Interesting)

DrYak (748999) | about 2 years ago | (#40473313)

There are a lot of solutions for Linux, including Secure-Boot compatible ones:
- Like Canonical's attempt to pay to have a boot loader get signed with the same key as what is used to boot Windows, so any mobo able to secure boot Windows should be able to secure boot such a bootloader too, and from that point onward boot any kernel (ubuntu official, custom or whatever) or even boot manager that the user would like to.
- And canonical's hope to also have its own keys accepted into as many motherboard as possible thus enabling them to start a more open-source firendly key infrastructure. (I.e.: lots of enthousiat mobo being also able to boot canonical signed code. Boot loader, straight kernels, whatever).

They are a lot less options for secure-booting Windows XP:
- Microsoft is NOT going to sign Windows' boot loader or whatever. I mean XP isn't even designed to boot on UEFI anyway ! And they have all the reasons to restrict secure boot to Windows 8 only.
- The only secure-boot compatible alternative would be to use a mobo with caninocal keys and either get SeaBIOS (a bios implementation to boot BIOS based OSes like Windows) signed, or use a signed bootloader and convert the SeaBIOS as a possible boot target for that. That's a lot of custom hacking. Enterprise IT department aren't going to like it.

Or disable secure-booting and either activate legacy BOOTing (if supported) or boot into a BIOS compatibility layer (like SeaBIOS):
- but you don't know for how long a legacy BIOS booting will be available (currently major recent OS from Microsoft support EFI booting, as do linux)
although currently non-secure-boot is possible and mandated for x86 hardware (but not supported by XP).

So in short:
There are way to get Linux working - even all the while keeping secureboot enabled.
Microsoft won't be helping for ways to get XP booting.

Re:Solutions for Linux, less for XP (3, Interesting)

bmo (77928) | about 2 years ago | (#40473351)

What about chain loading XP from the Canonical boot loader?

Secure Boot only looks at the first boot loader to see if it's certified. Whatever happens after that is anyone's guess.

--
BMO

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (2)

mordors9 (665662) | about 2 years ago | (#40472863)

The company I work for is just moving from XP to WIn7 this summer as they roll out new hardware. So I feel fairly certain I will never see 8 on my company computer.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (4, Interesting)

C_amiga_fan (1960858) | about 2 years ago | (#40472931)

Maybe MS should try the Apple approach of refusing to support any computer slower than a certain clock speed, and no updates for an OS older than ~3 years. That would mean XP would never have been given a free Service Pack 2 or 3, or security updates.

BTW will Win8 run on 512MB like Seven can
?

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473371)

Actually MS should do something like Apple and release a new consumer OS every 12-18 months or so. Then once every 3 years they can create the "enterprise" version with long-term support. Businesses would be more comfortable switching if was already out there and the bugs had been shaken out.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#40473193)

Microsoft's biggest competition is its older versions.

Not really, they're just delayed because there's practically zero chance any of these companies will try a Mac/Linux migration. So they'll migrate to Windows X-1 with a couple service packs since it's tried and trusted but eventually they do a 2K or XP or Vista or Win7 migration - and they're rarely skipping a version because going two forwards means double as many changes and it's too "fresh" so in fact they make exactly as many migrations as the rest - just later.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (2)

C_amiga_fan (1960858) | about 2 years ago | (#40473271)

Every company I've worked for (3) skipped a version from XP to Seven. So I wouldn't be surprised if they skipped from 7 to 9 half a decade from now.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472887)

Do IT people decides on IT spendings or their managers? kickbacks will take care of that.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 2 years ago | (#40473029)

The managers normaly decide the more sexy issues, like if it is alowed to bring your iPad into work. IT people get to decide those problems that fly under the radar, like what version of Windows you'll use.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473403)

Finance does. Our IT Managers decide what to submit a PR for, but ultimately fiance has to approve it.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473135)

And Id say fuck off to the "application streaming", knowing microsoft theyll start to charge per seat-per cpu-per server ram-per application like they do for everything.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473163)

You are right. There is a large medical center here where I live. Go stroll through the halls and what do you see? Windows XP Pro everywhere..

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473211)

The only reason why we're getting off of XP is because of the pesky little issue of Microsoft terminating support for it in early 2014. While I like Windows 7, it isn't something I'm prepared to deal with end users on (8 is even worse, given the complete lack of start menu).

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473215)

Well redhat seems failed in the desktop arena. Everyone was hoping with their resources clean up linux so that it is enterprise worthy, heck I used linux at work and I know its more secure and faster than the windows pos, with all the supposed security service crap. I hope some one comes in and makes a good OS, most offices use MS cause its what they are used to. Open office is getting there and should be copatible with MS crap. If the same business model is used meaning purchase a set of licenses for the support of a great desktop with no security hole and a set of hard ware would life not be great in Enterprise. The need is there just need investors and a good dev team and in about a years time you can go head to head with MS since the windows API has been released to the wild.

Re:Because IT Deptartments are Conservative (5, Insightful)

hairyfish (1653411) | about 2 years ago | (#40473329)

Another point not taken into consideration, is that the driver for change in the 90's and early 00's was rapid hardware improvements with necessitated OS upgrades for support. Around about 2006 we reached a plateau where CPU, RAM, storage, video, USB etc all reached a level where it satisfied most people's requirements. Dual core CPU's were available to user for the first time, the MHz race had ended, RAM and storage was of sufficient size to never really have to think about it again, and most devices were USB plug and play for the first time ever. Since then there is no real reason to upgrade other than for shinyness (rather than for productivity). I still have my laptop from 2006 and it still does everything my brand new one does, it even has higher res screen. The major changes since then have all been in the mobile space, which obviously MS is trying play catch up with Apple and Google. This is great if you want an MS phone or tablet, but for those of us that just want a cheap and reliable desktop experience, WinXP is still does the job, and I don't see how the UI can really be improved much. Corporates don't need flashy graphics, or pinch and swype touch interfaces. We need a simple desktop that is easily managed and is compatible with everything and supports all our apps. A keyboard and mouse are still the most efficient and productive input methods for a desktop. Right now, today, XP still does all that, so what is the driver behind the need to change?

Good reason to be wary (5, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#40472719)

With radical rewrites come lots of new bugs - and lots of sysadmins whose years of experience may not translate. For corporate IT, both of those make Win8 a "go slow" proposition - at best.

Re:Good reason to be wary (3, Funny)

steelfood (895457) | about 2 years ago | (#40472837)

Fortunately, if it's just a GUI rewrite, and the new user interface was just an alternative to the norm or a fancy wrapper over the old interface, there wouldn't be any such issues.

Oh wait.

You gotta be kidding! (1, Redundant)

macraig (621737) | about 2 years ago | (#40472731)

Microsoft Trying To Woo Businesses To Windows 8

Holy shit! Who could have guessed this would happen? Quick, somebody call the EFF, ACLU, and EU before it's too late!

Re:You gotta be kidding! (2)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40473145)

You forgot the FBI, CIA, NSA, DOJ, BSA, FCC, RIAA, MPAA, NCAA, NFL, NASA, YOUR MOM, and STFU.

Filter error: Don't use so many caps. It's like YELLING.

Re:You gotta be kidding! (1)

macraig (621737) | about 2 years ago | (#40473269)

You can try to call my mom, but you'll get the caretaker in the cemetery.

Re:You gotta be kidding! (4, Funny)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40473283)

Still working at her age? Guess she should've saved for retirement, huh?

Re:You gotta be kidding! (1)

macraig (621737) | about 2 years ago | (#40473349)

You can try to call my mom, but you'll get the caretaker in the cemetery, who is not my mom.

FTFY.

Contracts (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472741)

Our IT guys have an agreement in their employment contract that they'd be executed if they brought that monstrosity anywhere near our computers. They're comfortable with that and suggested extending the same proviso to senior management.

I am going to push my company to adopt Win8 (5, Funny)

elabs (2539572) | about 2 years ago | (#40472753)

I am going to have my team begin development on Win8 applications right away and push for hardware to test and develop on. Hopefully this will trickle down to the rest of the company and the IT staff.

Re:I am going to push my company to adopt Win8 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472851)

why?

Re:I am going to push my company to adopt Win8 (1)

Exrio (2646817) | about 2 years ago | (#40473245)

Year of the Linux desktop: This is how you make it happen.

Dating (0)

Muramas95 (2459776) | about 2 years ago | (#40472777)

I understand your in love with me windows 8 but I am dating win7 and she is good for me....I think you should go now...

Re:Dating (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473079)

I am dating win7 and she is good for me

She? Then how come MS customers are the ones bent over and taking it up the ass?

Re:Dating (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473133)

I am dating win7 and she is good for me

She? Then how come MS customers are the ones bent over and taking it up the ass?

Or vagina.

Re:Dating (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473155)

Strapons? The flourishing Seattle BDSM and Femdom scenes?

You would think (4, Insightful)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about 2 years ago | (#40472789)

that every business in the entire world would have enough sense to know that the corporate environment is not a place to be using the bleeding edge of software versions, no matter how much wooing they get.

Re:You would think (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472911)

sales people and entitled greedy little meetoo users don't care.

Re:You would think (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473229)

So businesses shouldn't use Firefox, Chrome, Linux (except for Ubuntu LTS versions), etc.?

Not convinced... (4, Interesting)

ZenDragon (1205104) | about 2 years ago | (#40472797)

All of those things are at features or at least possible to do in windows 7 currently, so why upgrade? I would like to see REAL reasons! New file system? Better security model? Whatever. Otherwise its completely pointless. Regarding the simple UI model, well obviously that's a model of perspective. It wouldn't be difficult to develop an app that would look exactly the same on any existing system. In my opinion, its the Metro UI not the OS itself that is going to prevent enterprises from adopting w8. Sure it makes sense with a touch screen but the fact of the matter is, it is not efficient with a mouse and keyboard, even the desktop view is crippled. Like the author said, give the user the choice, and stop trying to force this metro UI garbage down every bodies throat. UI design is NOT a once size fits all endeavor!

Re:Not convinced... (5, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#40473059)

Indeed. And the one big argument one might have for RT on tablets and the like would be integration into Group Policies, but guess what, RT won''t have Group Policy integration, so there is absolutely no reason that I can see to choose RT devices over Android or iOS. I'm still astonished that, in the one area where Microsoft could really make penetration with its devices, at least into the corporate world, they're doing nothing at all.

Re:Not convinced... (4, Insightful)

Sprouticus (1503545) | about 2 years ago | (#40473335)

When they dropped GPO's form RT they killed it for the Enterprise. If I cant control devices on my network, then it really doesnt matter what devices are ON the network. Citrix receiver + Android (or whatever) + Isolated Guest Wireless and Im all set

Re:Not convinced... (5, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#40473117)

stop trying to force this metro UI garbage down every bodies throat. UI design is NOT a once size fits all endeavor!

On a personal level, I agree. On a corporate level, I'm afraid I largely disagree. Corporations are full of people that will suck up IT's time with their very own customized desktop. The weight of the few that could actually make themselves more productive and not take up undue resources is outweighed by the many who'd just wasting company time being equally or less effective. That goes for development too, I remember one story about a lady who wanted to make all sorts of little adjustments to layouts, captions, alignments and so on, the developer billing by the hour. It quickly ended when her boss found out and told her to stop wasting time and money on insignificant details like that, but she didn't feel that cost. She just wanted it her way and didn't care how much company resources she was wasting.

Windows $NEXT_VERSION will floor all comers (5, Funny)

David Gerard (12369) | about 2 years ago | (#40473477)

I would like to see REAL reasons!

Guest post [newstechnica.com] by Mary-Jo Enderle

BORG CUBE, RedMonk, Tuesday (NNGadget) — I have seen the future: Windows $NEXT_VERSION Milestone $MOCKUP.

I tried it on a low-end laptop with four Core 2 Duo chips and only 8 gig of memory, and trust me: $NEXT_VERSION is shaping up to be one heck of a product.

WordPad and Paint have seen major overhauls to their user interfaces. Forget the freetards and their "distros" full of all sorts of useless shovelware like "FireFox" and "OpenOffice" and, haha, "GIMP"! — the bundled software with Windows $NEXT_VERSION is clear, simple, sparse and to-the-point. The much-loved Ribbon user interface from Office $HATED_VERSION is now part of WordPad and Paint!

The controversial Digital Rights Management system in $CURRENT_VERSION has been worked over, with user-downloadable "tilt bits," which you can configure to your own liking. It'll require every user to supply a blood sample for DNA analysis, and the beta nearly took my finger off, but of course that's only if you want to play premium content. The Blu-Ray of Battlefield Earth was unbelievable on this operating system.

A public beta should be released by the end of this year. There's just no way that Steve "Trains Run On Time" Ballmer will miss the Christmas deadline. The final release should leave the midnight queues on $CURRENT_VERSION release day — the street riots, the water cannons, the rubber bullets — in the shade.

I am so excited about $NEXT_VERSION of Windows. It will go beyond just solving all of the problems with $CURRENT_VERSION, it will be an entirely new paradigm. Forget about security problems, those are all fixed in $NEXT_VERSION. And they're finally ridding themselves of $ANCIENT_LEGACY_STUFF.

Also, there'll be $DATABASE_FILESYSTEM. It'll be awesome!

I wonder how $NEXT_VERSION will compare to $NEXT_NEXT_VERSION.

Linux's Moment Coming Up (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472807)

And this article demonstrates why Linux is about to go all bukake all over Microsoft's face.

Hardly... (4, Insightful)

logicassasin (318009) | about 2 years ago | (#40472897)

Let's be honest. This has been said with each new version of Windows. Personally, I was sure that Vista would be the opening that Linux needed to make serious inroads on the desktop, but I was wrong. Many thought that XP's Fisher Price looking default theme and clunky performance (initially) was enough to woo consumers over to Linux, but this didn't happen. I don't see it happening with Win8, especially if Microsoft relents and gives users a way to boot directly to the desktop instead of Metro.

Re:Hardly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472981)

That's a scarecrow argument dude and I'm bringing my flying monkeys to tear the straw out of that man. We're talkin' sys admin's, not your know-nuttin home customers. Linux & BSD's all come with whatever desktop environment you wish for. If Micro$oft doesn't give the IT dept's a Win8 interface that IT wants, then IT will go elsewhere & the whole *nix world is ready & willing. It's really that simple.

Re:Hardly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473409)

Windows Server 2012 looks pretty nice. I think it will make work for system administrators a lot easier because everything is laid out clearly and simply. Everything can be a tile that is able to display realtime information about the system, server and/or network and when you tap or click one of those tiles, it brings up the appropriate admin tools.

Re:Hardly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473019)

You got trolled. Congratulations.

Re:Hardly... (1)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#40473443)

Vista made me switch, KDE3.5 vs Vista was actually not that unfair a fight. It was like XP except with a future, or at least so I thought. The challenge getting people across was (and probably is) mostly that people are tied to their Windows applications, I remember thinking to myself now I'm relearning something that I know a perfectly good Windows tool for - but I saw it as a form of investment. Long story short 3.5 was EOL'd, KDE released the 4.x series and Microsoft released Win7. It turns out where I thought Windows was headed for a dead end there was light on the other side of the tunnel and KDE just went off the rails. I didn't need to be in such a rush to get off XP (which I agree was 2k with an annoying skin, but still a huge upgrade from 98), and I'm not going to be in any rush to get off Win7. Even if Win8 is bad, nobody's getting pushed out the door.

Considering the number of companies still on XP... (5, Insightful)

logicassasin (318009) | about 2 years ago | (#40472811)

... it's amazing how Microsoft still doesn't really get it. Business doesn't really need Metro. There's entire indistries that still get their bread and butter from CLI-based apps (insurance and travel immediately come to mind as does various medical professions) so what advantage does 8 have for them? As stated in the article, unless there's a way to skip Metro all together, many helpdesk staffers will get pissed from fielding many calls asking "Where's my desktop at?".

Were I a CTO or even just an IT manager, I'd go for 7 on the next refresh and give 8 time to mature.

Re:Considering the number of companies still on XP (4, Interesting)

hairyfish (1653411) | about 2 years ago | (#40473141)

I'm a IT Manager. I still have XP in my fleet because it still does everything we need it to do. MS got it right with XP, it has enough features to be useful, but not too much fluff to be painful. I still rate XP as the best desktop OS in existence (features, UI, compatibility, support). Vista and 7 just made corporate SOEs harder and more complex to implement. The Win8 UI looks great for tablets and phones, but doesn't look likely lend itself to productivity. In a corporate environment you generally have only a handful of apps which you use every day, some of which are custom written, and mostly you have multiple windows open side by side that you work with. I am yet to see this simple function demonstrated in Win8 which has me a little concerned.

Re:Considering the number of companies still on XP (0)

Nimey (114278) | about 2 years ago | (#40473225)

It will do those things for another year and a half, until April 2014 when Microsoft has decided it doesn't want to support it any longer. By that point you'd best have upgraded or made it so the XP machines can't see the Internet & have hot glue in their USB ports so they can't get viruses that way either.

Keep up with the times or get left behind, gramps.

Re:Considering the number of companies still on XP (2)

logicassasin (318009) | about 2 years ago | (#40473267)

It will do those things for another year and a half, until April 2014 when Microsoft has decided it doesn't want to support it any longer. By that point you'd best have upgraded or made it so the XP machines can't see the Internet & have hot glue in their USB ports so they can't get viruses that way either.

Keep up with the times or get left behind, gramps.

Sounds like you weren't around for Win2000 vs XP in the business space. It took quite a while for business to get off of Win2000 just like XP nowadays. If you look hard enough, you'll probably still find NT4 and 2000 machines running in mission critical roles even today.

Re:Considering the number of companies still on XP (1)

Sprouticus (1503545) | about 2 years ago | (#40473353)

No, the GP is right. Microsoft has kept XP around for as long as they are going to. Once Security updates stop, people will switch. Well, people who want to keep their jobs will switch.

Re:Considering the number of companies still on XP (4, Interesting)

Nimey (114278) | about 2 years ago | (#40473493)

Of course I was. We got rid of our Win2K and NT4 machines in time, except for one or two that run scientific instruments; these are off the Internet. Having a site license for Windows upgrades is pretty damn nifty.

You want obsolete? I inherited an area with two computers that were used solely to automatically SSH into an intranet administrative server and enter data. Guess what operating system they were running in 2005.

It was MS-DOS, and they weren't replaced until summer 2006. Given the sheer obsolescence and limitations of the operating system, I would actually be fine with them being in service for that one limited purpose today. DOS was so simple that it was easy to delete any non-needed executable, so you could be pretty sure there wasn't anything in there besides IO.SYS, MSDOS.SYS, COMMAND.COM, the TCP/IP stack & 3Com driver, and the SSH2 program itself.

Don't worry (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 years ago | (#40473297)

All those things you need for business continuity will start not working one by one. And then you will join the happy upgrader crowd and brag your ROI on the upgrade like everybody else. Again.

Who would start over? RT in office space? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472813)

Who, or what 'Enterprise environment', would start over and rewrite their entire app catalog, in house or commercial, just for Windows 8 with it's 'radical rewrite'? Isn't this the next 'WindowsME'???

Silverlight? Going the way of the dodo. .Net? Going the way of the dodo.

What the hell is Microsoft talking about? Or more interestingly, what are they smoking at Redmond?

Moving to server-side heavy lifting for real-time Windows in 'Enterprise' environments.... to do what, read and reply to all my emails? Feed me inventory reports on how many widgets just shipped, to my Windows tablet in fancy non-webbased interface?

Sorry. Not seeing the trees here. Can someone point me to the forest?!?

Biggest mistake in Microsoft's history (2, Insightful)

Tough Love (215404) | about 2 years ago | (#40472833)

Turning Windows into a Fisher Price toy is about the only possible way Balmer could have found to dismantle Microsoft's business monopoly in record time. I am impressed and the words "burning platform" come to mind.

Re:Biggest mistake in Microsoft's history (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 2 years ago | (#40473045)

I'll wait and see if that will really make a dent on Windows popularity. Even taking into account that there are several other factors against MS here (like their fight with the OEMs), I'm not convinced that it won't simply be another Vista.

Re:Biggest mistake in Microsoft's history (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 years ago | (#40473327)

No, that was threatening their OEM partners with own-brand PCs, sold out of their own websites and retail stores no less.

Re:Biggest mistake in Microsoft's history (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 2 years ago | (#40473369)

Replacing the entire retail box software sales and online software sales and VAR partner software sales industries with their own integrated app store comes second.

Oh, Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40472873)

Don't you get it? You've created a consumer OS. The same things that will make it more attractive to the average Joe are what will make it a non-starter in the business world. Why do you think Apple has never been able to gain a foothold in that market?

Re:Oh, Microsoft... (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#40473083)

Why do you think Apple has never been able to gain a foothold in that market?

Which is why every second person walking past my office has an iPhone.

Re:Oh, Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473279)

But are the iPhones allowed on the network? And getting email and calendars doesn't count.

Re:Oh, Microsoft... (1)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#40473325)

Now you're adding qualifications to your original claim. Since email and calendars are the most important things most folks are going to want on a portable device such as a phone, with file share access and the like probably further down the list, why is it exactly that mail and calendaring be excluded? Seems to me you're moving the goal post to win the argument.

Re:Oh, Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473451)

The only iPhone users at my company are execs... but that is because they're "special" so we have to make them happy. Everyone else gets Droid Razrs, Evo Shifts, Photons or Thunderbolts.

Re:Oh, Microsoft... (2)

raydobbs (99133) | about 2 years ago | (#40473147)

...because every time they get a good product into the market, get businesses to adopt it, get the contacts built up to make a major push into the market... corporate pulls the plug on the hardware, pulls the plug on the software, removes all the corporate features - and forgets all the movers and shakers they spent the last decade trying to pull in. Businesses got tired of it after the XServe fiasco - you don't drop significant capital into hardware only for your vendor to say, "Sorry, who are you again? We never made that so-and-so device... Get real, consumer stuff is where we're at - who did you think we are, IBM?"

If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It (Yet.) (5, Insightful)

ausoleil (322752) | about 2 years ago | (#40472937)

Microsoft will have a tough sell when it comes to Win8 with many if not most of their large customers.

First all, while they are still the preferred desktop OS vendor, their reputation precedes them: new releases of Windows often come with a seemingly built-in period where problems and flaws need to be worked out -- most of the time by the first service pack, others, not until the second or later. That in turn means lowered productivity across the userbase and increased support costs. To make things worse, often times the answer from even the highest levels of Microsoft's support is "that will be fixed in the next service pack" and the problem is left open. Companies know this and have learned to wait.

Secondly, Microsoft has a bad habit of changing the way their OS works, and that leads to lower productivity thanks to users "having to look" for features and controls they previously knew how to find. Win7 did it, as did Vista and to a smaller extent XP. That even affects the support groups, as they too have to climb up a new learning curve. Companies have learned this too and often wait until they are familiar with the new OS -- sometimes using their own staff as guinea pigs for the desk-side support guys.

Finally, Microsoft's upgrades -- and anyone's really -- have a way of breaking legacy applications that are critical to the business's needs. Then there are vendors who have not certified the new Microsoft OS as being compatible with their products. No certification, no support. No support, it doesn't get fixed and that leaves the business without a piece of its business process software working correctly. Companies have learned this as well and have learned how to wait.

All in all, the conservatism of IT groups is a learned behavior, and if Microsoft has problems selling their OS upgrades because of this, a large part of it is their own doing.

I see help desk hell with the new GUI and even say (3, Insightful)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#40472945)

I see help desk hell with the new GUI and even say you have some full screen metro apps the switching will be jarring to some people as well.

RemoteApp - MS's solution to MS's problem (4, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#40472967)

RT devices can't run x86 apps. Microsoft says "No problem! Use RemoteApp to stream x86 apps to your device!" But given how licenses work, this isn't saving you any money on software - and now you need two pieces of hardware (the remote device and a server) to run apps that used to live on the remote device.

So basically Microsoft's decisions created a new problem, and they're trying to pretend their work-around should count as a feature.

Re:RemoteApp - MS's solution to MS's problem (2)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#40473491)

Bingo. I just started a new IT job in a rather remote shithole in the middle of nowhere, with only around 40 machines. They wanted to roll out RT devices, once I explained to them how much money this was going to cost them. Especially for a small municipality(9k people) they decided that this would be a very bad idea.

good luck makeing windows 8 only Enterprise apps (2)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 2 years ago | (#40472985)

good luck makeing windows 8 only Enterprise apps as that is likely to have a very small market when you can make the same app with out the metro stuff and have it run on XP, vista, 7 and windows 8.

Enough probs with Win7 mostly (4, Insightful)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 2 years ago | (#40473043)

Look, there's a mix of Win 7 32bit and 64bit distributions and the 32bit and 64 bit MS Office distros as well, some of which literally require you to recode macros into Visual Basic "just because".

We don't have time to add Win 8 just because some tablets might use it, especially since pretty much everyone is using iPad or iPhone instead.

Wake me up when Zune 2 is dead and the Tablet Wars are over - cause all my metrics show Apple is winning that one hands down, and we have to work with the VA, not some artificial version of reality where the Zune on steroids is a reasonable option.

Hey microsoft (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473071)

FUCK WINDOWS 8

And fuck metro for good measure.

Not upgrading. Here's why. (3, Interesting)

Pollux (102520) | about 2 years ago | (#40473143)

1) I just spent two years testing Windows 7 deployment in our environment, learning the different behaviors of the OS, getting all the group policies & registry settings set exactly the way I want them, and familiarizing myself with the environment enough so that I can see in my head the system and its menus so that I can navigate myself and others through the system w/o hiccups. I don't make that kind of investment in my time to a new OS w/o wanting to wait at least three years before having to make a new change to our systems.

2) Windows is doing a near-complete overhaul to their OS. Last time this happened, we got Vista. Enough said.

3) Even when Windows 7 came about, I still waited a year before deploying it in our environment. SP1's for Windows OS's have had a good track record thus far.

MS is high. (5, Insightful)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 2 years ago | (#40473181)

Business doesn't like radical rewrites of the OS. People like MS because it's consistent. Everyone still isn't over the Windows vista/7 issue. No one is going to buy windows 8 especially since given the pattern Windows 8 will probably be terrible.

Lets face it...

98 good/ok
98 ME bad
XP Good
Vista bad
Windows 7 Good/ok

We're also not used to upgrading our OS this fast. There's no need for windows 8. People will be happy with windows 7 for years and years. Is that a profit problem for MS? How? They're collecting license fees on every new machine.

As to Metro, touch integration, etc. Careful with that stuff. Annoy enough people with the OS and you're going to get people to install alternative shells or completely jump ship to linux. We don't like radical changes like that. And most worrying MS is dropping a lot of it's backward compatibility. That's not acceptable. If I have to start running lots of custom VMs of windows just to run old software that won't work in new versions of MS. At some point there's no problem with just switching to linux or Mac. It's all the same at a certain point.

So... be careful.

Re:MS is high. (1)

toejam13 (958243) | about 2 years ago | (#40473391)

Annoy enough people with the OS and you're going to get people to install alternative shells

Last I checked, new releases of Directory Opus were still being released. I had no problem replacing Workbench back in the day. I'd have no problem doing it with Explorer tomorrow if Microsoft doesn't fix their UI mess.

mo3 dowN (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473217)

pe0ple's faces is incompatibilities visit

Is it just me... (3, Interesting)

logicassasin (318009) | about 2 years ago | (#40473235)

... Or doesn't Metro make you think that it's a 2012 version of Packard Bell's Navigator for Win 3.x?

Re:Is it just me... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40473417)

I had successfully scrubbed those days from my memory for the last decade and a half. Until now.

Thanks, jackass.

nodamnedway (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#40473243)

We're still mostly on XP, evaluated and decided to skip Vista, and are just now starting to deploy 7. This is because (pay attention, this is important) having the latest and greatest cutting edge bits on the desktop is waaaayyyyyy down on the list of things a business looks for in a personal computer environment. Reliability, (Windows 8 service pack zero? It is to laugh.) security (ditto), and compatibility (which is, oddly enough, at direct odds with the concept of "complete rewrite") are MUCH more important factors than having whatever MSFT thinks is the latest whiz-bang interface. It comes down to this: What worked yesterday is more likely to work today than something that came out today. Windows 8 may be, despite being an even numbered release, the greatest thing since sliced milk. But the responsible thing to do is wait and see, let someone else take the chances, and make the decision when the environment is proven. If that means MSFT doesn't meet their 4Q sales, then they should have known better.

Metro? (5, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | about 2 years ago | (#40473299)

Ok, clue me in. I really need to know this. Why would I make a Metro app, which only runs on Windows 8, especially a client/server app as described in TFA, when I can make a web app that runs in any environment that has a web browser? What is the percentage in coding to a single, specialized environment when everyone else in the world is coding using mature cross-platform web-based solutions. Wouldn't coding to Metro be a really good way to commit corporate suicide?

Compatibility (5, Interesting)

dissy (172727) | about 2 years ago | (#40473319)

I am the IT manager at the company I work for, and am the one responsible for the server infrastructure and ~150 client computers
The only thing keeping us on Windows at work is due to our highly specialized and highly expensive ERP [wikipedia.org] system, which runs most all aspects of the business.

If this system had an update released tomorrow that gave it Linux support, or even Mac support, I would ditch Windows like the bad habit it is faster than you could double-click.

The ERP company literally just released an update to allow the client to run on Windows 7 and not fall on its face on a 64 bit OS. 6 months ago now.

I began our XP to 7 migration plan a while before that, but with this rather critical dependency those plans have been on hold until January.

After putting in all the capital expenditure and purchase order requests to update our 5-6 year old Win2003 servers, I only last month got approval.
I'm not expecting to get the hardware for another 2-3 weeks. I'm expecting the ERP upgrade to take longer to fully test than I am the Windows 7 upgrade.

After all of this, I am not about to even listen to, let alone consider, how "easy" it is for enterprise software to be written for Win 8. That does not help with our million and a quarter dollar investment in existing software. I'm not about to replace last years 23" wide screen LCDs with new touch screens, especially so when our primary use is data entry. And I'm most certainly not looking forward to tossing out a decade of knowledge and learning experiences for Windows 8.

On that last point, while I fully expect to be playing around with and learning Windows 8 on my own, one thing that needs firmly kept in mind is that the company I work for does electronics manufacturing. Nearly no one is or has interest in the technicals of computers. They just prefer computers over pen paper and calculators. We even have a whole department of 30 people, of which only TWO own computers at home. (Yes this is as boggling to me as it no doubt is to you, especially in this day and age!)
These are not people who use computers purely for the sake of using computers, like we are. To them they are just tools to get work done easier and quicker.
Anything that distracts from that simple and only goal is not a benefit to us, and Win 8 falls firmly in that category.

I am not in any way looking forward to the re-training Windows 8 would require ON TOP OF the training for the new ERP update, which we already have to do.

Point being, Windows 8 is nothing but a bunch of time and money that does not benefit me or our company in any additional way than XP has and 7 will for some time to come.
Even if it was free software, my time would be better spent elsewhere, that would more than likely end up saving us time and/or money, if not actively making us money.

Windows 8 doesn't bring anything to the table we want. While not all businesses are the same, I think Microsoft is about to be surprised by how many are similar in this regard.

New: Windows 7! (3, Informative)

David Gerard (12369) | about 2 years ago | (#40473433)

IT departments are only just shifting to Windows 7. And they're only doing that because PCs are coming with more than 3GB of memory.

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