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Cisco's Cloud Vision: Mandatory, and Killed At Their Discretion

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the good-idea-bad-idea dept.

Cloud 307

An anonymous reader writes "Last week, a number of Cisco customers began reporting problems with three specific Linksys-branded routers. When owners of the E2700, E3500, are E4500 attempted to log in to their devices, they were asked to login/register using their 'Cisco Connect Cloud' account information. The story that's emerged from this unexpected "upgrade" is a perfect example of how buzzword fixation can lead to extremely poor decisions."

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307 comments

Voting with wallet (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520049)

Will never buy from again...

Re:Voting with wallet (2)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#40520147)

Well, as long as you buy from the remaining duopoly of router manufacturers.

Re:Voting with wallet (5, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#40520221)

That's why I build my own from a very basic Debian install. Since most of the routers out there are just embedded Linux boxes using iptables, why would I pay for what I can build for free. If I'm looking for high capacity stuff like Cisco's real offerings, I doubt I'll be running up against his problem anyways.

Re:Voting with wallet (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520275)

(100 watts) * 1 year = 876.581277 kilowatt hours

Not free. Look for the routers that can run an open source platform out of the box.

Re:Voting with wallet (5, Interesting)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40520427)

What kind of box would run 100 watts as a router, no routers use zero watts, so you need a delta between the router and the PC, and 6 months out of the year I'm paying to heat anyway, so 100 watts of electricity merely means the equivalent of 100 watts less of natgas. If you go laptop I can't even find a laptop power supply that can draw 100 watts.

Also that ridiculous 100 watts would cost me about $5/month. Well worth the staggering expense to avoid Cisco.

Re:Voting with wallet (2)

rhook (943951) | about 2 years ago | (#40520567)

ThinkPad W Series power adapters can pull 170watts.

http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/product-and-parts/detail.page?&LegacyDocID=MIGR-76762 [lenovo.com]

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40520583)

Yikes those watts are all going into heat, so programming with that on your lap must be very much like pushing a space heater onto your thighs. Ouch.

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#40520947)

It is to run the laptop full tilt and charge a 100% depleted battery all at the same time. It will likely never see that use.

Re:Voting with wallet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40521023)

> It will likely never see that use.

Bologna.

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

jimicus (737525) | about 2 years ago | (#40520605)

I don't know what part of the world you're in, but in mine 100 watts worth of heat from a gas-fired boiler costs a lot less than 100 watts worth of heat from electricity.

Re:Voting with wallet (5, Funny)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about 2 years ago | (#40520833)

I run my laptop with a stationary bike.

Re:Voting with wallet (3, Interesting)

gman003 (1693318) | about 2 years ago | (#40520691)

I just got* an Asus G75. Power supply is 150W. And yes, it has some crazy-sized fans to keep itself cool.

* Well, got, and then had to send back in for repair after only three hours, and now I've been waiting for weeks just to get an ETA. Long story short, fuck Asus, I'm never buying from them again.

Re:Voting with wallet (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40521059)

Not that it will matter, but here's a contrary anecdote about Asus. I purchased a refurb M70 from Newegg, wiped the OS, and used it for ~6 months before something started preventing boot. Probably bad ram, maybe a faulty mobo, don't know. I sent it to Asus' processing facility 900+ mi. away, and received the system back 4 or 5 days later with a brand new motherboard. They also replaced my screen because apparently it had a broken pixel or something I never noticed.

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#40521065)

Also that ridiculous 100 watts would cost me about $5/month. Well worth the staggering expense to avoid Cisco.

Few people live where electricity is that cheap. $5/month to run a 100 watt load means you're paying $5.00 / (0.1KW * 30 * 24) = 6.9 cents/KWh.

In California, I'd pay over twice that, or about $10/month. A year's worth of 100W power costs more than I paid for my Wifi router in the first place.

(I use a Linksys Wifi router, but I run dd-wrt on it. I use a low-power Atom based system running Ubuntu as my home fileserver / security camera DVR, the whole thing including UPS + Wifi + internet modem uses about 40W)

Re:Voting with wallet (5, Informative)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40520433)

My PC-as-a-router draws about 50 watts under load and 40 watts idle, so using your calculation above. Let's assume it's always under load, so that's 438 kwh. My last electric bill was about 11 cents per kwh, which comes to $48/yr to run it or about 13 cents a day. Considering it gives better performance than any dedicated consumer-grade router I've ever used, I'll glad shell out a dime a day for the upgrade. And that doesn't even account for the fact that I can set up my PC-as-a-router to go to sleep while I'm at work and at night, which drops its power usage lower than the dedicated consumer router. In the end, the energy cost increase is negligible as long as you're not using something horribly overpowered.

Re:Voting with wallet (5, Informative)

pak9rabid (1011935) | about 2 years ago | (#40520631)

They're called embedded [soekris.com] systems [pcengines.ch] . Maybe you've heard of them? Not free, but when you load a Linux distribution tailed for embedded systems (like this [voyage.hk] one) they're MUCH more stable than anything you can buy at any big-box store (even if you're flashing the firmware with something less retarded).

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40520963)

Well he never said he was running it on a big power hungry box...

You can get low power Linux boxes such as the Sheevaplug or OpenRD, which must be pretty comparable to common routers in terms of power usage, while being considerably more capable.

Re:Voting with wallet (3, Interesting)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40520365)

Until May, my router was a repurposed Dell Dimension 2100 with four PCI NICs thrown in it running ClearOS 5. Started having some hardware issues with it, so I built a new rack-mount box with a low-power Athlon II x2 and a small SSD with a quad-port NIC, threw ClearOS 6 on it and off to the races. Runs great and because it's a full PC, it can do a lot more than DD-WRT (my old router with DD-WRT is now just used as a regular WAP). Sure, it's overkill but it gives me a lot to play around with. You can easily pick up an PC for the price of a Linksys router that will do everything that Linksys could and more (at the expense of an extra dollar or two a month in energy costs)

Re:Voting with wallet (2, Interesting)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40520367)

That's why I build my own from a very basic Debian install. Since most of the routers out there are just embedded Linux boxes using iptables ...

... which are never updated or only updated with security patches when shamed into doing it...

My debian based firewall is about 15 seconds of "apt-get update apt-get upgrade" away from the most recent security patches.

why would I pay for what I can build for free

A 486/50 clocked down to 25 so as to be fanless could run "a couple megs" with no serious bus or CPU issues about a decade ago. Pretty much anything made in the last decade has WAY more than enough "compute power" to be a firewall.

$100 of electricity instead of router hardware provides 25 watts extra power continuously for 5.7 years.

Also I can run some pretty advanced stuff on my firewall that you can't get with commodity NAT boxes.

Re:Voting with wallet (3, Informative)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 2 years ago | (#40520491)

My latest builds were three Mini-ITX VIA boards; two are 1ghz VIA Centaurs and one is a 1.2ghz VIA Nano (the latter because I need to run a couple of KVM guests). They're fanless and I'm using 60gb SSD drives, because the idea is not only relatively low power, but no moving parts, as two of them are located about 60 miles away over some pretty nasty roads, so I want to reduce the likelihood of having to go out there to swap out power supplies or drives.

I did set up a WAN with three Tomato-upgraded Asus routers, and that worked very well, but because I'm running servers, I think they'd be a little under-powered for that purpose.

Re:Voting with wallet (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about 2 years ago | (#40520657)

You still need a wireless radio.

I've found the internal wireless NICs have a range equal to the radius of a swung cat.

This has forced me to get a cheap wifi access point, (or a router that can be told to just run as an access point) and use it for
its radio only. I run my own DHCPD, DNS, Nat and IPTables, NTP, (etc) in a Linux box, and bridge my network onto a cheap ($25) ap that can do WPA2.

Since I run it in access point mode, it does nothing but handle wifi authentication and wifi access, it remains rather simple, and I really need only watch for bug fixes to WPA2.

I've been looking into various Open Router distributions [wikipedia.org] for the radio side of things, but most are overkill for what I do.

Re:Voting with wallet (3, Interesting)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40521013)

Get some USB wireless cards such as those from alfa networks along with a decent antenna...
A long USB cable means you can site the wifi card and antenna away from the system itself (which is a source of interference).

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about 2 years ago | (#40520417)

Try building your own x86 PC that takes 5 watts out of the wall.

Of course, anyone who runs a fileserver 24/7 can just put ESXi on it and virtualize everything, including a nice router like pfSense or ipcop, and actually save the 5 watts.

Re:Voting with wallet (5, Informative)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40520519)

Try building your own x86 PC that takes 5 watts out of the wall.

Well, you asked for it. I've been a happy customer of these guys no financial gain. This is buying a complete system with case and everything although you get to purchase drives and possibly RAM separately.

http://www.zotacusa.com/ [zotacusa.com]

The zbox makes a great, ridiculously overpowered mythtv frontend.

http://soekris.com/ [soekris.com]

This box is commercial / semi-industrial grade and is basically a router platform ready to go.

You have to carefully avoid google to avoid finding "single digit wattage" PC-like hardware.

Only on /. would a guy paying $75/month for cablemodem to connect to a $2000 gaming PC that gets a new $500 graphics card every couple months worry about 5 watts of electricity, considering that in a civilized area 1 watt costs about $1 per year.

Re:Voting with wallet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520811)

Some of us do live on solar power you know. Every watt counts.

Re:Voting with wallet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520699)

I bet you have Linux on your blender and toaster

Re:Voting with wallet (2)

icebike (68054) | about 2 years ago | (#40520353)

Duopoly?

There are at least 30 brands listed at Best Buy and New Egg. Some of these may be re-badged, but there are far more than two or three alternatives.

Re:Voting with wallet (0)

poetmatt (793785) | about 2 years ago | (#40520535)

Not if you don't want to get a cheap and/or gigantic piece of shit that can't even keep things secure, want actual functionality, etc.

Re:Voting with wallet (4, Informative)

BagOBones (574735) | about 2 years ago | (#40520613)

Dd-wrt and tomato-USB firmware builds run on several buffalo and asus brand routers.

Buffalo even ships dd-wrt on select units.

Re:Voting with wallet (2)

icebike (68054) | about 2 years ago | (#40520753)

You'd be well advised to go get your own dd-wrt rather than accepting one from the router manufacturer. Sort of defeats the purpose of dd-wrt and puts the fox on guard at the hen house door to use their version.

Re:Voting with wallet (4, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about 2 years ago | (#40520717)

Sticking with a duopoly brand is no assurance of them being secure. This story should have made that patently obvious to you.

Moving everything off the router except the secure wifi functionality and putting it into my Linux machine running IPTables means that I can use any of these cheap routers that is able to function as an Access Point, and never expose them to the internet.

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 2 years ago | (#40520783)

Oh, I see. You want secure things, like the CISCO models on TFA?

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520389)

Screw that, roll your own [smoothwall.org] .

Re:Voting with wallet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520449)

Duopoly? Maybe chipset makers, but there's plenty of companies that make their own routers. At the consumer level, I'd say asus is pretty close to the top especially the N series wired/wireless.

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

bhcompy (1877290) | about 2 years ago | (#40520557)

It's not the router, it's the interface, and most of them are different. Personally, I've avoided Linksys ever since they fubar'd wifi on their consumer routers/APs

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

NettiWelho (1147351) | about 2 years ago | (#40520149)

What are the guys at Cisco thinking, really? http://i.imgur.com/x9im4.jpg [imgur.com]

Re:Voting with wallet (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#40520249)

I can only assume that the people inside Cisco who believe that they have a natural right to be paid for a support contract on every item they ship finally could contain themselves no longer...

Since nobody buys support contracts on $40 plastic shitboxes, they had to 'monetize' them somehow.

Thank you (2)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | about 2 years ago | (#40520385)

As a terminology Nazi, Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes mit Eichenlaub, I am delighted that you quoted "monetize". It drives me slightly mad when people misuse it: literally, monetizing a router would mean that you could take a case of them into a bank and exchange them for dollars at some rate (since it is an economics term meaning "to use a particular thing as currency"). Given that the outcome of this is that it will be extremely hard to get people to exchange affected routers for cash, it's doubly inappropriate.

Anyway, thanks again.

Re:Thank you (4, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 2 years ago | (#40520517)

That's the word the wonderful MBAs use these days. The real meaning of course, is a small short term increase in profit, and a long term effect of turning your former customers against you. They're not concerned about that last part, as they've generally moved on to 'help' the next company.

What instead of monetize? (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#40520941)

What's the correct term that means what people are intending to say when they misuse "monetize"?

Re:What instead of monetize? (2)

Daniel_Staal (609844) | about 2 years ago | (#40521011)

Rent-seek?

Re:Voting with wallet (5, Interesting)

cusco (717999) | about 2 years ago | (#40520503)

We put in a number of Linksys R16 and R08 layer three switches at remote customer sites in the first couple of years after the Beast Of Cupertino purchased the company. Through the web interface I could set up a couple of VLANs, DHCP, DNS forwarding, firewall, a PPTP VPN connection, and a DMZ (if necessary) on them in a couple of hours, a set of tasks that would take a $250/hr CCNA most of a day on order-of-magnitude more expensive Cisco hardware. Everyone was happy, then one of them got hit by lightning.

I took the replacement unit out to the site and went to set it up. The VLAN option was gone, and was actually necessary at that site. When I tried to access the help file I found that the new switch no longer had an on-board set of help files, but insisted on phoning back to the mother ship in California. Several other options had been changed or crippled. Fortunately I had a backup of the original configuration stored on a local server, and when I uploaded the config file my VLANs returned (although I still couldn't access their interface).

Last one of those we installed.

Re:Voting with wallet (3, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#40520839)

"Through the web interface I could set up a couple of VLANs, DHCP, DNS forwarding, firewall, a PPTP VPN connection, and a DMZ (if necessary) on them in a couple of hours, a set of tasks that would take a $250/hr CCNA most of a day on order-of-magnitude more expensive Cisco hardware."

I, er, think I can guess why Cisco may have "simplified" the interface of certain linksys products...

Re:Voting with wallet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520723)

I second that. as an owner of the EA4500 I am pissed!

Frist (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520055)

Frist!

Re:Frist (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520123)

Psot?

Buzzword fixation? What buzzword fixation? (5, Funny)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 2 years ago | (#40520127)

After all, with outside-the-box thinking, we can proactively re-prioritize synergies to get cloud-based enterprise solutions that go viral in mobile social media.

Re:Buzzword fixation? What buzzword fixation? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520153)

Don't you worry about Planet Express, let me worry about Blank.

Re:Buzzword fixation? What buzzword fixation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520199)

Project Jabberwocky, the wave of the future!

Re:Buzzword fixation? What buzzword fixation? (2)

MozeeToby (1163751) | about 2 years ago | (#40520381)

And if you prefer engineering buzzwords, there's always this [youtube.com] .

Re:Buzzword fixation? What buzzword fixation? (2)

MobileTatsu-NJG (946591) | about 2 years ago | (#40520471)

After all, with outside-the-box thinking, we can proactively re-prioritize synergies to get cloud-based enterprise solutions that go viral in mobile social media.

Bingo, sir!

Re:Buzzword fixation? What buzzword fixation? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520937)

After all, with outside-the-box thinking, we can proactively re-prioritize synergies to get cloud-based enterprise solutions that go viral in mobile social media.

Efforting that as we speak, sir.

Don't confuse malice for stupidity... (5, Interesting)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 2 years ago | (#40520161)

I'm pretty sure that this wasn't a case of mere stupidity, brought on by poor, poor, management's exposure to too many buzzwords. This is a straightforward control grab, an overt attempt to turn a low-margin hardware sale into an ongoing data harvesting and customer lock-in opportunity. The putrid buzzwords and condescending infographics are just the cover.

It looks like this would be a very good time for owners of cisco-branded routers to start hitting the OpenWRT, assuming that Cisco hasn't also locked-down or VXworks-ed all of the linksys routers by this time...

Re:Don't confuse malice for stupidity... (4, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 2 years ago | (#40520303)

Sadly, most folks won't even know about it (or they will have had it sold to them as a good thing(TM, pat.pending). )

This means that most folks will happily continue buying the stupid things as if nothing at all is wrong with doing so. Your only hope os to persuade otherwise, word-of-mouth.

Of course, if you spread this news on enough pr0n sites ("Cisco collects all your browsing information!"), I'm willing to bet that Cisco would likely have their small routers division go bankrupt almost overnight...

Re:Don't confuse malice for stupidity... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40521047)

Stupid malicitude, probably.

I'm just waiting for... (5, Funny)

ad454 (325846) | about 2 years ago | (#40520211)

... my FaceBook router. (Hopefully a FaceBook branded Cisco device.)

Why wouldn't I want FaceBook to intercept all of my Internet traffic? It would allow FaceBook to provide better services and targeted ads just for me. This would be the best solution, until I get that FaceBook brain implant installed.

You don't have a facebook brain implant? (1)

losttoy (558557) | about 2 years ago | (#40520579)

You must be one of those nerdy un-social types. Rest of us already have facebook brain implants.

Re:You don't have a facebook brain implant? (4, Funny)

gman003 (1693318) | about 2 years ago | (#40520711)

I'm using a Google+ brain implant, you insensitive clod!

Re:You don't have a facebook brain implant? (4, Funny)

Rastl (955935) | about 2 years ago | (#40520989)

I'm using a Google+ brain implant, you insensitive clod!

Kind of a drastic solution to get rid of the voices in your head but hey, if it works for you...

Another lousy company (3, Insightful)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40520251)

"The Terms and Conditions of using the Cisco Connect Cloud state that Cisco may unilaterally shut down your account if finds that you have used the service for 'obscene, pornographic, or offensive purposes, to infringe anotherâ(TM)s rights, including but not limited to any intellectual property rights, or⦠to violate, or encourage any conduct that would violate any applicable law or regulation or give rise to civil or criminal liability.'" ---- So basically they'll be watching what we do, and if they don't like it, then they turn-off your Cisco account. Time to add Cisco to my ever-growing list of bad companies:
- Cisco
- Microsoft
- GM
- Ford
- Toyota
- et cetera

Re:Another lousy company (4, Interesting)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about 2 years ago | (#40520325)

Wow:

"IIn some cases, in order to provide an optimal experience on your home network, some updates may still be automatically applied, regardless of the auto-update setting." --- So Cisco will install some updates even when you specifically say no updates. I hope Microsoft or Google doesn't see this, and start updating Windows or Chrome w/o my permission.

Re:Another lousy company (5, Interesting)

msauve (701917) | about 2 years ago | (#40520545)

I hope the US DoJ does see it (they might even prosecute [cnn.com] ).

"Whoever...knowingly causes the transmission of a program, information, code, or command, and as a result of such conduct, intentionally causes damage without authorization, to a protected computer...the term 'damage' means any impairment to the integrity or availability of data, a program, a system, or information;..shall be punished..." - 18 USC 1030 (a "protected computer" includes any involved in interstate commerce - ever used eBay or Amazon?)

Before someone says that users somehow agreed to upgrades, think again. User buys AP/router which has auto-upgrade on by default. Plugs it in and uses it. Upgrade gets automatically applied without authorization, impairing the availability of the system (the article describes how features are removed). Cisco is in criminal violation of federal law.

The described tracking of browsing behavior is another crime - a violation of the ECPA.

Re:Another lousy company (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about 2 years ago | (#40520589)

...some updates may still be automatically applied, regardless of the auto-update setting.

Which means they're monitoring your router no matter the local settings.

Re:Another lousy company (1)

green1 (322787) | about 2 years ago | (#40520769)

I guess you now need to put a firewall in front of your router.... (or buy a more consumer friendly device)

Of course maybe I'm just seeing this from a skewed perspective in my part of the world, but I suspect that the market for stand alone consumer grade routers has probably plummeted recently. All consumer internet packages from any of the major carriers include a "gateway" device instead of a simple modem, these include firewall, NAT, and wired and wireless routing. This means the only people who still have a need for a dedicated router are the more tech-savy people, exactly the people who would be likely to use a router with an open firmware or such.

Re:Another lousy company (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520617)

Microsoft recently pushed a Windows update to Windows 7 users, even those who had auto update disabled. The update name is Windows Update Agent 7.6.7600.256.

Re:Another lousy company (1)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40520623)

You were going for +5, Funny, right?

Re:Another lousy company (1)

cusco (717999) | about 2 years ago | (#40520341)

So now that their router is considered to be part of the Cisco Cloud, if I use it to browse porn they have the right to disconnect me? Are you sure Cisco isn't based in Salt Lake City, rather than California?

What did Toyota do? (1)

Kupfernigk (1190345) | about 2 years ago | (#40520419)

I'm curious. The worst thing they do is phone me up and ask when I would like to book my car in for servicing.

Re:What did Toyota do? (0)

PRMan (959735) | about 2 years ago | (#40520593)

I'm pretty sure they made cars that wouldn't stop and then blamed the drivers for driver error while hiding the source code for about 5 years.

Re:What did Toyota do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520785)

I'm pretty sure that no matter how far down the gas pedal is, no Toyota can overcome the brakes. That WAS driver error... and in the event that those brakes don't work, there is an emergency brake.

Re:What did Toyota do? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520867)

I'm pretty sure that no matter how far down the gas pedal is, no Toyota can overcome the brakes. That WAS driver error... and in the event that those brakes don't work, there is an emergency brake.

No, there is a parking brake. And it's nowhere near strong enough on its own to hold back a car at full throttle.

Re:What did Toyota do? (3, Interesting)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40520677)

I'm curious. The worst thing they do is phone me up and ask when I would like to book my car in for servicing.

My guess was a couple years ago there was that big scandal where everyone who got themselves into a car crash claimed the car accelerated all on its own, because on TV the night before they saw someone get away with the same story. Once the TV newsies tired of the stories, the "incidents" stopped happening.

Re:Another lousy company (1)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | about 2 years ago | (#40520473)

Wow... Simply wow... If I understand correctly, then Cisco can now decide what you (as a normal user) can access or not with your Cisco/Cisco powered router?

Re:Another lousy company (2)

tomhath (637240) | about 2 years ago | (#40520565)

Not quite. They kick you off the Cisco Cloud, which appears to mean they will also turn off some of the "advanced" features in your router. You'll still have a router, but not necessarily what you thought you would have when you paid for it...

is this legal in the US ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520285)

I don't think I can count the number of privacy laws and consumer protection laws this violates in Europe.

Re:is this legal in the US ? (5, Insightful)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#40520339)

It may not be legal, but if the rewards outweigh the fines then companies really do not give a shit if it is legal or not.

The fines are most likely less than the fine for illegally downloading music.

Next Step is to PS3 Them... (3, Insightful)

h2okies (1203490) | about 2 years ago | (#40520291)

Count on it...then you don't 'Own' the router you merely pay a fee for the hardware but it wont do much until it connects to the internet to get the latest version of the software. And if you somehow get a 3rd party software to run on it they could then start DMCA proceedings against you. They won't provide services or updates unless you allow to remain connected to the internet. They will absolutely monetize your routing history

Re:Next Step is to PS3 Them... (2)

h2okies (1203490) | about 2 years ago | (#40520321)

Oh I completely forgot the most important issue:

The local FBI, Police, NSA, ....IA,...AA ...will now subpena Cisco for your routing history to convict you of crimes....

Re:Next Step is to PS3 Them... (1)

PRMan (959735) | about 2 years ago | (#40520621)

Instead of your ISP, which will gladly roll over and give it to them...

Re:Next Step is to PS3 Them... (1)

SQLGuru (980662) | about 2 years ago | (#40520899)

Except where the ISP has joined the group that only keeps 2 weeks of history........Cisco will have more because it's all marketing data.

EA, not E (3, Informative)

PianoComp81 (589011) | about 2 years ago | (#40520315)

The version numbers are the EA-prefixed ones, not the solely E-prefixed ones.

Re:EA, not E (1)

PRMan (959735) | about 2 years ago | (#40520633)

The version numbers are the LINKSYS-prefixed ones

FTFY

Wait what? My porn..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520329)

Cisco may unilaterally shut down your account if finds that you have used the service for “obscene, pornographic, or offensive purposes,...

I use my internet for 2 things, reading slashdot and browsing porn. This would offline 75% of healthy males......

Re:Wait what? My porn..... (1)

PPH (736903) | about 2 years ago | (#40520801)

offensive purposes,...

Hmm. After the update, I can't reach any GOP campaign or PAC websites.

Cisco's statement, straight from the horse's ass (4, Insightful)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 2 years ago | (#40520383)

Cisco's Vice President and General Manager of Home Networking, Brett Wingo said, "Cisco Connect Cloud was delivered only to consumers who opted into automatic updates. However, we apologize that the opt-out process for Cisco Connect Cloud and automatic updates was not more clear in this product release, and we are developing an updated version that will improve this process."

OK, so if I don't buy a Cisco router, do you consider that opting out . . . ?

who? (1)

ozduo (2043408) | about 2 years ago | (#40520387)

Owns Cisco. sounds like an Apple subsidiary or perhaps it's microsoft

Re:who? (1)

SQLGuru (980662) | about 2 years ago | (#40520921)

The shareholders.......duh.

Who runs it? The board. http://investor.cisco.com/directors.cfm [cisco.com]

But Cisco is the top-level company....not a subsidiary.

Cisco is out of grace, Sony style squared. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520407)

âoeIn some cases, in order to provide an optimal experience on your home network, some updates may still be automatically applied, regardless of the auto-update setting.â

Wow. that is a total killer. Cisco just confessed there device phones home even when you tell it not to.
I will never be able to trust anything Cisco again. at all.

The bleeding edge of technologypushing ads (4, Insightful)

meta-monkey (321000) | about 2 years ago | (#40520467)

And why do they want to collect data? To push more ads at you. Another poster joked about a "Facebook router," that would push ads at you, and there's another story on the /. front page about Google, and their business model of providing search...so they can push ads at you.

I'm not a knee-jerk "if you're in advertising you should kill yourself!" reactionary, but damn...how is that that the bleeding edge of technology and innovation today, some of the most valuable companies in the world like Google and Facebook...they're not sending men to mars to building flying cars. The best and the brightest and "most innovative" go to work...figuring out better and better ways to sell advertising. It's kind of depressing.

Re:The bleeding edge of technologypushing ads (2)

cusco (717999) | about 2 years ago | (#40520781)

Selling advertising, or manipulating the stock and bond markets. WTF happened, that the ability to construct a probe that can visit another planet is seen as geeky and boring, while selling trinkets to people who already have a storage unit full of useless crap or scraping an extra 0.002 percent off a trade is somehow innovative and exciting?

Maybe I should just give up on the whole country and retire to Peru.

Re:The bleeding edge of technologypushing ads (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 2 years ago | (#40520875)

Why do everybody assumes that spying is about ads? Is your atention the only valuable thing you have on your mind?

"Upgrade" (4, Informative)

Local ID10T (790134) | about 2 years ago | (#40520495)

This "upgrade" that they performed for me last Tuesday, prompted me to perform an upgrade myself -I installed DD-WRT on my router.

Well Cisco (4, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 2 years ago | (#40520625)

I'd like to thank you for making my next router decision easier. This time around, I had to consider a number of options, your E4200 one of them. In the end, I chose to get it. The combo of simplicity, high speed, and generally low cost made it a winner rather than trying to hack together my own or something like that.

However next time around, you are out of the running. I won't look at your products as this kind of setup is completely unacceptable to me.

So thanks for making my choices simpler. Less options can actually be much easier.

End run. (5, Insightful)

Anachragnome (1008495) | about 2 years ago | (#40520695)

"This is nothing but a shameless attempt to cash in on the popularity of cloud computing, and it comes at a price. The Terms and Conditions of using the Cisco Connect Cloud state that Cisco may unilaterally shut down your account if finds that you have used the service for "obscene, pornographic, or offensive purposes, to infringe another's rights, including but not limited to any intellectual property rights, or... to violate, or encourage any conduct that would violate any applicable law or regulation or give rise to civil or criminal liability.""

This is an end run by the RIAA/MPAA, with the participation of CISCO, to bring anti-piracy measures to your router. Your own router can/will now be used against you to collect evidence of infringement (and who knows what else), as well as giving CISCO full rights of enforcement. Fuck that.

In the future, I will be looking carefully for CISCO branding on products, the sole intention being that of avoidance--CISCO will not be getting any money from me again...ever.

End run-service call. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40521035)

Ummm, that says "the service", not "the router". So don't use there service and you're good to go.

Time to urge retailers to stop selling these? (1)

Dwedit (232252) | about 2 years ago | (#40520709)

Is it time to urge retailers to stop selling a router that spys on you?

Re:Time to urge retailers to stop selling these? (1)

Dinghy (2233934) | about 2 years ago | (#40520853)

Is it time to urge retailers to stop selling a router that spys on you?

Retailers don't need urging, they follow the dollars. If enough people truly do stop buying these, instead of just righteously proclaiming that on the internet, then they will disappear from shelves. As long as people keep buying them, though, retailers will keep selling them.

Re:Time to urge retailers to stop selling these? (1)

marcosdumay (620877) | about 2 years ago | (#40520889)

If people stop buying, they'll stop selling.

E3000 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40520891)

Yeah, I can log into my E3000; I'm so happy that the net gods decided to permit me to configure my network.

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