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Linux Users Banned From Diablo III Servers

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the heavy-hand-holding-broad-brush dept.

Games 518

dartttt writes with word that "Blizzard has banned all Linux users who are playing Diablo III on Linux using Wine." Reader caranha adds that these users have been flagged as "using cheating programs," and that replies from Blizzard support staff so far have upheld these bans. Update: 07/03 16:57 GMT by S :An official response from a Blizzard Community Manager indicates they don't ban people for using Linux. As with most reports of game bans, we have only the word of random gamers that they were banned for the reason they say they were banned.

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518 comments

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Jesus, stop being pathetic! (5, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527777)

Linux users who crawl to Blizzard remind me of an cousin of mine who kept going back to her abusive boyfriend.

Yeah, maybe they've changed this time. Maybe they really love Linux now. Why, I bet after 8 years they're going to release a WoW Linux client too, any day now! This time it's going to be different!

Hey, here's an idea, why not support the studios that really *DO* support Linux instead of studios that treat it like a red-headed stepchild? Just a thought.

I mean, if you're going to be a whore to studios who clearly have no intention of supporting Linux, you had may as well set up a Windows dual-boot and play your game software in Windows.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527841)

Hey, here's an idea, why not support the studios that really *DO* support Linux instead of studios that treat it like a red-headed stepchild? Just a thought.

Care to list them? I can think of exactly ... two.

I mean, if you're going to be a whore to studios who clearly have no intention of supporting Linux

Define "being a whore" in this scenario. They make a good game. We wish to play it. We hate Windows. Dilemma. Nothing about being a whore in there.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527895)

But the dilemma is of your own creation. When I make a gaming rig, I just put Windows on it because that's where the games are.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (5, Insightful)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527903)

Define "being a whore" in this scenario. They make a good game. We wish to play it. We hate Windows. Dilemma. Nothing about being a whore in there.

Yeah, except for the part where you buy their game for Windows, sending them the message "You don't need to make a separate Linux client. We whores will happily still buy it for Windows and run it crippled in Wine."

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (1)

ganjadude (952775) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528235)

Their servers can tell they are running wine, so clearly they have a grasp on how many linux users they are playing the game (or they can look at their bann number from the other day)

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (1)

Dunbal (464142) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528171)

Care to list them? I can think of exactly ... two.

EVE Online and what else?

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527873)

Not to mention, D3 just isn't a very good game.

Fire up some D2, NWN, or DA. Way more fun.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (4, Funny)

Rhaban (987410) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527987)

I mean, if you're going to be a whore to studios who clearly have no intention of supporting Linux, you had may as well set up a Windows dual-boot and play your game software in Windows.

But... what about my uptime?

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (0)

war4peace (1628283) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528297)

Make a Windows VM under Linux and run the damn game. If it works. Honestly I never tried.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (4, Informative)

Andtalath (1074376) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528377)

Generally, the 3d performance is TOTAL BULLCRAP in VMs.

So, no, it doesn't.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528445)

They don't really have video cards working with VMs yet. unless the game can be played without one and with less ram and far less processor power then you have than it is not going to run in a VM.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528351)

If you put your Linux to suspend to disk, after booting again it will report an uptime as if it had been running all the time. I don't know if you can boot another OS in between, but I don't see any reason why not; after all, you do a cold boot when resuming from suspend to disk.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (5, Interesting)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528009)

Why would they release a Linux client for WoW when WoW has been probably the best supported program with Wine for the last 5 years? You DO know they made the decision to go with both DirectX and OpenGL graphics paths, when they could have just done the windows only DirectX, right?

I mean, if there were things that didnt work with WoW/Wine, yea maybe they could fix it, but it was flawless, with only occasional patch-day issues. Addons, graphics, everything "just worked".

Complain about the diablo 3 issue, but complaining about WoW's linux support? Seriously?

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528161)

opengl is there for mac, not for linux

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528427)

As I and several thousand others can attest, its there for both. WoW-- a complex, 10+GB game, works better with Wine than just about any other program you could try.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528387)

You can play Diablo3 on Wine too, if they wouldn't ban you for doing it... We aren't talking about the technological feasibility at all.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528183)

Read past the first link, and you'll see that actually, cheaters using wine were banned. There are plenty of regular people still playing on wine.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528447)

Read the obvious, troll, banned for using wine, not cheating software inside of Wine. Blizzard are not that idiotic to ban "OS environment" and not cheating software inside of it. They didn't admit mistake either, 'there is no doubt you are cheater by using XXX in wine', but rather, 'You are using Wine, you are cheater'.

Which such studio? (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528241)

Hey, here's an idea, why not support the studios that really *DO* support Linux

Which such studio offers a video game with professional-caliber production values in the same genre as World of Warcraft or Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3?

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (5, Insightful)

gtaluvit (218726) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528257)

Or you could stop blaming Linux users for the actions of modders and botters. PlayOnLinux says at least 30,000 people are using it to play Diablo III. I'm one of them and I have not been banned. MANY Linux users have not been banned because the only people who seem to be posting in these threads are the handful of people who claim to have been banned and Windows users who keep saying "quit whining, you're unsupported". My suspicions are that they are using bots and using Wine as their excuse.

The recent Humble Bundle had Linux support for all of the games and I was happy to buy it. I do support the companies who support Linux, but I have no intention of buying Windows simply to play a game when the company (with one glaring exception with WoW way back when) has had stellar support for Wine even if they don't handle officially because of cost. I've been Linux only for over a decade and will be happy to stay that way.

Re:Jesus, stop being pathetic! (2)

The Grassy Knoll (112931) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528319)

...why not support the studios that really *DO* support Linux instead of studios that treat it like a red-headed stepchild? Just a thought.

a red-HATTED stepchild

FTFY

Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunned! (5, Informative)

eldavojohn (898314) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527781)

And that, dear readers, is why Slashdot advice is sometimes unsound [slashdot.org] . After reading reports of client side exploits (like rumors of item duping via system clock adjustments) and understanding basic limits on server/client communication, it is apparent that Blizzard has to trust the client more than they're comfortable with. So if you look at their "warden [slashdot.org] " implementation for WoW, you can imagine that Diablo III has a similar "anti-cheat check" component running in user mode where Diablo III runs. And they probably (correctly) identify Wine as being not genuine Windows. It's an emulation. And therein lies the problem. Without setting up a highly invasive rootkit like The Warden, Blizzard cannot know if Wine is emulating Windows libraries correctly. A simple mental exercise is to imagine that the D3 client cannot query the servers every time it needs a time stamp for each event in the game -- to do so would DDOS their own servers so each client must query each user's system clock. The Windows call that does this is emulated by Wine. One could easily insert a dynamic control for this "system clock" into Wine and recompile. One of the achievements in Diablo III is to finish each act in under an hour. So a user could note the time, play to the end of an act and before beating the final boss, simply turn the clock one minute past the starting time and have Wine report that to the client. And if the client is not asking the server for these time stamps, achievement granted. This is a very coarse example for the sake of brevity but I would imagine that system timestamps affect many more aspects of the game. The rumor was that rolling back your system clock after an item sale would return the item to your inventory and you would still have the gold from selling it.

So is there actually a modified version of Wine cheating for you under your Diablo III client using the windows DLL api as a facade? Blizzard doesn't know. They can't know unless they have a rootkit that runs in super user (administrator) mode that profiles and scans all other programs for offending actions. That's how they caught WoWGlider but it would be infinitely harder with individual people like me tailoring their own versions of Wine. I am not saying their reaction is correct, I'm just trying to explain to you why they are employing arcane logic. The solution is for them to natively support Linux but that's a completely separate flame fest for which I really don't have the energy right now.

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (5, Funny)

aztrailerpunk (1971174) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527843)

And they probably (correctly) identify Wine as being not genuine Windows. It's an emulation. And therein lies the problem. Without setting up a highly invasive rootkit like The Warden, Blizzard cannot know if Wine is emulating Windows

Wine Is Not Emulation

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (2, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528073)

Be as pedantic as you want, Wine emulates Windows behavior. Whether it does so by reimplementing the libraries is irrelevant; the thing that is accomplished is environment emulation.

Everything is an emulator (4, Informative)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528265)

By how I interpret your definition of emulator, Linux is an emulator because it emulates UNIX behavior. What do I misunderstand?

Customer Casts Rule Of Law! Blizzard Is Defeated! (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527953)

...seriously. Blizzard did not provide Wine users enough warning to cover their asses under general standards like implied warranty. If they do not unban or provide refunds a small claims or class action suit will be trivial.

Re:Customer Casts Rule Of Law! Blizzard Is Defeate (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528093)

LOL You're cute.

Re:Customer Casts Rule Of Law! Blizzard Is Defeate (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528167)

Every EULA ever disclaims implied warranties of all types. Believe me, Blizzard is no different.

Re:Customer Casts Rule Of Law! Blizzard Is Defeate (2)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528249)

Your local municipal judge may or may not uphold that.

They might decide that the UCC actually has some teeth and decide to enforce it despite of what kind of sleazy disclaimers a company might try.

You will never know until you try.

It will cost them more money to defend then it will cost you to persue the issue.

Re:Customer Casts Rule Of Law! Blizzard Is Defeate (0)

sosume (680416) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528317)

I don't care about EULA's, they are yet to be validated in a court of law.
What I do care for is this. I buy a single player game. I choose to play it on my own machine. Blizzard does not agree with my choice of OS and therefore bans my account. €45 down the drain! That's like Ford deciding that you cannot get gasoline at Texaco, and if you do, they will remotely disable your vehicle.

Re:Customer Casts Rule Of Law! Blizzard Is Defeate (2)

geogob (569250) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528343)

That why Every EULA ever are legally inadmissible, if not illegal, in many civilized countries.

In the EU, for example, the company is bound to certain warranties that cannot be disclaimed by a EULA.

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527989)

The problem is that no rootkit can truly be invasive enough. The only real answer is hardware trust management where the hardware system vendor and the OS vendor can provide guarantees via known public-key software signing, etc, to the application vendor at the expense of the user not really having any control over their machine anymore. Anything less, and where there's a will there's a way to manipulate the client software and bypass the checks of an invasive Warden-like program, even on "official" Windows.

The *real* answer is that they can only protect their game server-side. It's ok to do client-side optimizations that don't matter much to the integrity of the game, but things like buying and selling items need to be implemented as proper server-side transactions. It's perfectly possible to design a networked game with the right local optimizations to make it playable and the right server-side transactions to make it mostly-unhackable in all important ways. It just requires a lot more coding work and proper design and $$ spent on server infrastructure to support the increased load on their end, and they're unwilling to expend that. The only other logical conclusion is to accept a hackable game. Banning Linux users does nothing to change this fundamental problem.

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528011)

Err, wasn't the item dupe exploit a rumor to make money on the rmah just before it was released?

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528203)

No, I did it. Selling 19 1514 dps hellion crossbows with 11% attack speed and a socket for 20mio each leave battle tag here USrealm

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (1)

Tridus (79566) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528315)

Considering the asian servers were down over a full day to remove duped items and fix the problem? I doubt it.

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (2)

Nadaka (224565) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528331)

It was gold dupe, and it was real.

put item up for auction, get a bid on it.
roll back the system clock (this works on windows btw).
cancel the auction, get your item back plus the bid.
The bidding user may or may not have also gotten their gold back.

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (4, Informative)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528163)

A clear and concise explaination for why they might ban Linux users. Only problem? Banning Linux users isnt whats happening here, and they have stated that playing on Linux will NOT get you banned:
http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/07/blizzard-clarifies-diablo-iii-ban.html [ubuntuvibes.com]

We’ve not found any situations that could produce a false positive, have found that the circumstances for which they were banned were clear and accurate, and we are extremely confident in our findings.

Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will.

I dont think Warden works properly on Linux, but then it didnt for WoW either, and that didnt stop it from working flawlessly. Blizzards games have tended to be shining examples of Wine actually working well.

Re:Blizzard Casts Arcane Logic! Customer Is Stunne (2)

0x000000 (841725) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528177)

Even if Windows were running on bare hardware I could play tricks with the clock, I could hide memory from any program that Blizzard could come up with to attempt to scan regions of memory, I still could pull all of the tricks you just mentioned. How? Using good ol' virtualisation extensions that exist within processors.

Not only that but I own the hardware, I have physical access to the hardware, there is no good way for any program to insert itself at a higher level. I control the boot process so I get to choose where the OS is loaded, I get to change the way it works and interacts. Writing kernel level modules that tamper with time like you are suggesting that would be simple with Wine are entirely possible using straight Windows as well.

Thats the biggest problem, Blizzard doesn't own, they don't manufacture and they can't guarantee that no-one has tampered with the hardware. There comes a point where the software is running on top of the hardware and it has to trust that the hardware is not being malicious. This is how cable box hacks, and satellite box hacks used to work.

Blizzard can write a root kit all they want, if people want to cheat and if there is enough incentive to do so people will find ways to defeat the rootkits behaviour and cheat. Until everything is sent over an RDP like protocol and no code executes client side this is a problem that is going to exist for the foreseeable future.

PC vs. console (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528345)

Thats the biggest problem, Blizzard doesn't own, they don't manufacture and they can't guarantee that no-one has tampered with the hardware. There comes a point where the software is running on top of the hardware and it has to trust that the hardware is not being malicious.

So are you recommending that companies like Actiblizzard develop games exclusively for video game consoles instead of for PCs? That'd seem to go against what Actiblizzard said in the past about PCs [slashdot.org] .

Until everything is sent over an RDP like protocol and no code executes client side

Why do you think Sony just agreed to buy Gaikai [slashdot.org] ? Gaikai's service offers exactly such an RDP-like protocol.

diablo 3 is closed source (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527817)

wtf is the point of using some clunky shit like Linux if you're just going to use proprietary software like Diablo 3 anyways? Stop being cheap and get a Mac you bums.

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527941)

What's the point of using some overpriced clunky shit like a Mac when it only runs about 5% of software that I need it to?

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (1, Offtopic)

Dog-Cow (21281) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528065)

A Mac will run all Windows software, all OS X software (compiled in the last decade or so) and most Unix software that comes as source. I'd say you're way better off with a Mac than some generic PC that can't run OS X programs.

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528197)

all OS X software (compiled in the last decade or so)

wrong, Rosetta has been dropped in 10.7.

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528291)

A Mac will run all Windows software [...]

[[citation oh so very muchly needed]]

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528333)

> A Mac will run all Windows software

A Mac won't even run all Mac software.

Hardware support for stuff like this is spotty even in Windows. When you are dealing with the trailing edge stuff Apple likes to put into it's machines, gaming can be quite a disaster.

Emulation and virtualization certainly aren't silver bullets either.

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528403)

A Mac won't even run all Mac software.

Nor will a Windows PC run all Windows software. Windows 7 Home 64-bit can't run pre-1996 applications because they're 16-bit, and a lot of these are classic PC games that have had no official remake since.

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528441)

Why would anyone in their right mind run OSX software? Like Final Cut? The people I know with the overpriced Apple shit only use OSX because it's less of a pain then Linux. And because they feel like hipsters with their round-cornered design laptops.

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528061)

wtf is the point of using some clunky shit like Linux if you're just going to use proprietary software like Diablo 3 anyways? Stop being cheap and get a Mac you bums.

Not sure if serious, or a troll. >

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (1, Offtopic)

CosaNostra Pizza Inc (1299163) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528341)

WTF is the point of shelling out big bucks for Mac when I can get a comparable, if not better, pc from HP for less than half the price? The specs and performance of my new laptop blows the doors off the most recent Macbooks. Also, Mac doesn't run most of the software I'd want to use. Third and finally, I hate Apple as a company, its business practices, and the over-zealous culture of its fan-base.

Re:diablo 3 is closed source (2)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528383)

My new-ish Mac died. It cooked itself to death.

My others don't have good enough GPUs to play any major studio game and can't be upgraded.

I can put any GPU I like into my conventional tower PCs and I don't have to pay a minimum buy in of $2400 to get it either.

I have Macs. They are doorstops in this discussion.

Reddit made some observations (5, Interesting)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527829)

A summary:
  1. Blizzard has had excellent Wine support in their more recent games. I suspect some of their devs love Linux and so make it unofficially work well.
  2. Some Reddit users of Diablo 3 on Wine have confirmed they are not banned.
  3. It has been observed this would be a good go-to excuse for cheaters looking to get their accounts unbanned.

Re:Reddit made some observations (5, Informative)

The MAZZTer (911996) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527863)

Oh yeah, and apparently an official statement by Blizzard has claimed Wine users have not been banned and will not be banned, it is merely unsupported. They tested reported configurations and could not reproduce a ban.

Re:Reddit made some observations (5, Informative)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528219)

Heres the blue-post (Blizzard statement)
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978861022?page=21#402 [battle.net]

We’ve extensively tested for false positive situations, including replicating system setups for those who have posted claiming they were banned unfairly. We’ve not found any situations that could produce a false positive, have found that the circumstances for which they were banned were clear and accurate, and we are extremely confident in our findings.

Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will.

Blizzard doesnt have a track record of cracking down on Wine usage, and its not like they dont know it exists.

Dear Linux Users... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527831)

FUCK YOU!

Love,

Blizzard.

Blame the Real Money Auction House (5, Interesting)

RogueyWon (735973) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527849)

Blizzard really are doing very well at generating massive amounts of bad publicity for themselves on Diablo 3. They may have achieved some impressive early sales, but I still can't help but wonder whether they're not being self-defeating here.

I think a lot of this stems from their decision to cash-in on what had formerly been a "grey market" around their games, via the introduction of the official "real money" auction house. While it's easy to see things like the always-on connection requirement and the paranoid 3rd-party software detection as being driven by piracy concerns, I suspect the RMAH has at least as much to do with it.

Partly, this will be due to Blizzard wanting to protect their anticipated margins. But as much as that, it's about covering their legal backside. By mainstreaming real-money financial transactions between players for virtual goods like this, they're entering a legal minefield - in fact, more than that, they're entering a different legal minefield for every territory where the RMAH is available.

If a third party exploit reduces the value of the cash investment that players have made in an in-game item or commodity, are Blizzard, as the service-provider, liable? In ANY of the territories where the service is offered? Chances are, questions like this haven't even been tested in most of those territories. Blizzard therefore need to minimise their risk by being as paranoid as possible and accepting as inevitable any harm that they do to the player experience. For Blizzard, absolute control over the game client is now more important than ever.

Actually, even more interestingly, I wonder what this might mean over time for Blizzard's love of tweaking stats and balance. If Blizzard do something that reduces the value of a particular set of items or commodities, are they vulnerable to law-suits? In ANY of the territories where the RMAH is available. Blizzard have an absolute fixation with tweaking stats and balance in their games. In some ways, it would actually be good for this tendancy to get stomped on a bit; their constant meddling with my class was one of the biggest factors that drove me to quit World of Warcraft. But I do wonder whether their development teams might find themselves increasingly frustrated by constraints placed on them by legal and marketing.

I really do wish Blizzard had decided to stay well out of the real money trading thing. There was always a real money grey market in World of Warcraft (and, I gather, in Diablo 2). It was an occasional low-level irritation (mostly when the activities of gold-farmers started to impinge upon "genuine" players), but it was never catastrophic. You always knew that, on balance, it was likely that a good number of the players in your guild had bought gold at some point and that, in all likelihood, a small minority did so regularly. But you just got on and played the game.

Blizzard seem to want to have it both ways; the up-front profits from the "direct sale" model and the profits over time from the "pay to win" model. I always defended WoW's subscription model on the basis that your purchase of the game and its expansions covered "sunk" development costs and your subs covered the ongoing cost of maintaining and incrementally enhancing the game. I still believe that's correct. But I do hope that players don't let them get away with what they seem to be trying to achieve with Diablo 3.

Re:Blame the Real Money Auction House: Pick a side (3, Interesting)

hardwarejunkie9 (878942) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528005)

We constantly hear complaints about companies and their inability to deal with the grey market over item resale. Like it or not, they're building digital economies and that means real value is being dealt with. Valve hired an economist for a reason and, likewise, Blizzard has taken a very bold step in their RMAH. Many have praised 2nd Life for its embrace of digital/real value and have talked about it being a model for serious later material, but, honestly, we're still collectively wary if someone actually wants to try it for themselves. The real point to be made is that the "pay to win" model exists regardless of the game itself and the game developer's intentions. As long as you can trade items between players, you create economic incentive to game the system. If you've ever talked a friend in real life into trading you material in-game, you've done the exact same thing, but only with social capital. All that Blizzard has done is bring it out into the light and try and address the mechanic that is in place and clean up the system so that there is a clear standard rather than murky side-dealing.

Re:Blame the Real Money Auction House: Pick a side (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528231)

On the one hand, the RMAH does co-opt the grey market in item selling. On the other hand, that appears to be the core of the game; Diablo IV seems likely to be just an auction house, a paperdoll model to see your purchased gear equipped on, and a spreadsheet.

Re:Blame the Real Money Auction House: Pick a side (1)

Tridus (79566) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528389)

And if they should just be happening to be charging mobster level service charges on those transactions...

Re:Blame the Real Money Auction House (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528133)

I am not enthralled with auctioning virtual goods. Eventually someone will find a dupe bug somewhere, and instead of having a lot of virtual currency, they will have a lot of real life cash, especially if someone creates a multi-account system where the accounts duping pass it to other accounts who eventually sell it to help cover tracks.

The fact that someone can just blow a bunch of real life cash in order to knock off hardcore players off the ladder stinks too. If success in a videogame depends on how much currency I have to throw at it, there are other places to go.

It may not be D3, but I'm looking forward to Torchlight 2. At least Runic makes a good game and doesn't stoop to always-online DRM, arbitrary bannings, and forcing players to purchase virtual goods with real life currency for any hope of surviving endgame PvP.

The sad thing is that Blizzard has so much going for it. They tell publishers where to stick it when it comes to deadlines and actually release code that is up to snuff. Their games can run on an abacus, or give the latest video cards a run for their money.

It seems that lately, they have been falling into the trap that caused other game makers to sink into pitiful mediocrity. I wouldn't be surprised if soon, someone from Blizzard said that they wouldn't be writing for the PC platform anymore, and just focusing on consoles. Then, they come out with some generic title that gets a sequel every year, like Madden.

If it did happen, not a tear would be shed -- other companies are waiting in the wings with just as good if not better products. Trion is doing a great job at growing their MMO gradually with most of the annoyances of WoW addressed. Runic's dungeon crawlers might not have the cool factor of the Diablo series, but they are very playable, and only have Steam's DRM.

Re:Blame the Real Money Auction House (4, Interesting)

NormalVisual (565491) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528299)

I always defended WoW's subscription model on the basis that your purchase of the game and its expansions covered "sunk" development costs and your subs covered the ongoing cost of maintaining and incrementally enhancing the game.

Based on what Blizzard said a few years ago, the subscriptions are almost pure profit [pcmag.com] when considering WoW by itself. $200 million in 2008 would have covered four years of operation/maintenance, plus the costs of developing the Burning Crusade and Lich King expansions, all covered by two months' worth of subscription income.

Also, the impressive early numbers for D3 are largely an illusion, IMO. Lots and lots of those "sales" were freebies for people that committed to a full year of WoW subscriptions, and from Blizzard's perspective I'd argue that locking in that additional $1.2 billion or so in income was far more important than the income they'd have received from paid D3 sales. Lots of people were not happy with Cataclysm, and D3 offered Blizzard an additional way to maintain those WoW subscriptions in the face of that dissatisfaction while waiting for the release of Mists of Pandaria.

Not so sure... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40527853)

Blizzard surely isn't going to be making this kind of mistake having already managed to avoid this with SC2.

"We’ve extensively tested for false positive situations, including replicating system setups for those who have posted claiming they were banned unfairly. We’ve not found any situations that could produce a false positive, have found that the circumstances for which they were banned were clear and accurate, and we are extremely confident in our findings.
Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will."

Obviously (3, Informative)

ranton (36917) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527865)

This is hardly news. Blizzard has probably tens of thousands of people out there trying to break their games and their economies. If Blizzard doesn't feel it is worth extending Warden (their anti-cheating tool) to work on Linux (because of the marginally increased sales that come from supporting Linux), then they don't have to.

If they allowed Diablo 3 to be played on Linux, but weren't able to properly monitor users who play on Linux, their WOW and Diablo 3 economies would be sunk.

Re:Obviously (1)

aztrailerpunk (1971174) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528301)

Or, and I know this is crazy, have an actual single player. Being banned doesn't just mean you can longer enjoy the multiplayer. Due to Blizzard's infinite wisdom it also means you can no longer play single player and pissed away $60.

Re:Obviously (1, Insightful)

Korin43 (881732) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528393)

So Blizzard could:

1. Pop up a message when Linux users try to log in informing them that Linux is now completely blocked because one of the largest game companies in the world can't be bothered with some minor software.
2. Offer a refund to Linux users and apologize for wasting their time (remember, "no one plays games on Linux", so this shouldn't shouldn't cost them anything).

But you think it's better for their business to take option 3..

3. Ban legitimate users of your game and refuse to refund their money, making sure they never play anything of yours in the future.

Re:Obviously (2)

LordLimecat (1103839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528401)

Whats news is that Slashdot's headlines are getting worse by the day. "Banned ALL Linux users on wine!" Wow! Really? Wonder what the folks in this thread [reddit.com] might say about that? (User using wine [imgur.com] ; also, this post [battle.net] )

Very clearly, this is only "all linux users" for certain, low-percentage values of "all". From the posts on battle.net, it appears that "all" is roughly in the vicinity of "10". But congrats on yet another inflammatory headline, slashdot. Drive those clicks!

Oh well (5, Funny)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527905)

Guess Linux users will just have to wait for the PS3 version!

(Runs and hides)

They needed more bad publicity (1)

runeghost (2509522) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527945)

Apparently the truckload of bad publicity they got from their launch difficulties was wearing off, so they decide they needed to rustle some more up, quick.

Re:They needed more bad publicity (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528175)

They need any publicity. Everyone that I knew who played it, has stopped and isn't really looking back. That game is FANTASTIC the first playthrough, and okay the second, then its just fucking boring with Inferno difficulty and the more alts you create. That, and there isn't enough class customization.

System REQUIREMENTS (0, Flamebait)

Tufriast (824996) | more than 2 years ago | (#40527969)

It says it on the box. The system requirements are there. I'm not sure why people complain about the game not working on their platform. If you want to run it, just run a full blown VM and call it a day. Virtual Box is free. That being said I'm using an OS X virtual machine and it runs very well with D3 thanks to a few tweaks.

Running a full blown VM this day and age is not a difficult thing for a hacker to do, and even better, is still as cheap as running WINE if you have a copy of OS X "laying" around.

The system requirements are printed on the box, its their code, and people not reading the TOS leads to this. If you really want to stick to the OSS mantra - this piece of closed source code should not even have touched your system anyway.

Re:System REQUIREMENTS (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528121)

And I bet you read the EULA completely before you install any piece of software, huh?

Re:System REQUIREMENTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528397)

So three bullet points is similar to pages of lawyer speak?

Re:System REQUIREMENTS (1)

jedidiah (1196) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528415)

This Fanboy reminds me of the shills for the regime in 1984.

It's funny how Apple became what they were trying to make fun of.

Fair Use Rights (0)

pavon (30274) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528287)

I'm not sure why people complain about the game not working on their platform.

That isn't what people are complaining about. They tried to get it running in Wine with full understanding that it might work or might not. They are complaining because they got banned for even trying. A battle.net ban means that they can no longer play any recent Blizzard game they have purchased, multiplayer or single player, online or offline. It would be like a Hasbro coming into my house and stealing all the board games I have purchased from them because they think I used disallowed house rules, when in reality I was just playing on a different table then they expected. It is a gross violation of consumer rights.

Re:System REQUIREMENTS (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528347)

If I'm not mistaken, the requirements clearly state something along the lines of "Windows XP or better". This requirement is being fulfilled. So what's the problem?

I haven't bought an Activision game in four years (1)

pegasustonans (589396) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528003)

This new piece of information leads me to believe I made the right decision.

While most of my concerns lay with Activision proper, Blizzard now seems close to the same dark hole in light of their recent user abuse.

Already Blue Post saying this is false (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528015)

"We’ve extensively tested for false positive situations, including replicating system setups for those who have posted claiming they were banned unfairly. We’ve not found any situations that could produce a false positive, have found that the circumstances for which they were banned were clear and accurate, and we are extremely confident in our findings.

Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will."

This is strange. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528035)

I have been playing D2 on a Linux box for years using Wine with no problems. Makes no sense that they would ban people from D3 for using it.

It's not because of Wine, it's because of cheating (5, Informative)

xd1936 (2676133) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528037)

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/vyc4z/linux_users_permanently_banned_from_diablo_iii/ [reddit.com]

There are only one or two accounts that were banned. I think it's fairly obvious that they are just using Wine as an excuse for using cheat engines. Plenty of users are using Wine with no problems at all.

Blizzard's Response (3, Informative)

SoTerrified (660807) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528071)

From http://www.ubuntuvibes.com/2012/07/blizzard-clarifies-diablo-iii-ban.html [ubuntuvibes.com]

"We’ve extensively tested for false positive situations, including replicating system setups for those who have posted claiming they were banned unfairly. We’ve not found any situations that could produce a false positive, have found that the circumstances for which they were banned were clear and accurate, and we are extremely confident in our findings.

Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will."

Sensational headline rush (1)

Rewind (138843) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528075)

Better rush to get those angry rager page views. Never mind anything else [battle.net] .

Re:Sensational headline rush (1)

Trashcan Romeo (2675341) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528155)

Damn it. Now I've got indignation blue-balls.

Quick, I need something else to be pissed off about.

YOU FAIL IT!? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528111)

be 'verY p0orly benefits of being

Bad headline, truth not much better? (2)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528119)

It should read some Linux users banned. It's possible to run Diablo III in Linux, and Blizzard has already responded to some of the tickets being filed by confirming that Linux, while unsupported, is perfectly acceptable. The ones getting banned are apparently using WINE, and there's no confirmation yet that it was everyone using WINE or just a subset of the WINE users.

Even so, if they did decide to ban everyone using WINE, that's low.

Blizzard history (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528123)

1. WoW
2. Battle Net
3. Linux

(am I missing some?)

Three strikes now.

Perhaps they were cheating? (4, Informative)

markalot (67322) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528145)

Too many assumptions here. When cheaters get caught they like to spout lies ... so why believe any of this?

A post from support (a blue) in the thread above:

>> Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will.

Again (1)

angstel (39001) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528185)

Cædite eos. Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius.

Yeah! (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528191)

I'm sure some aren't cheating, but he cash market is going to inhale cheating and full-blown bots like never before.

So..."But **I'm** not cheating!" I think a scene is appropriate here.

Agent: Here are your things Mr. powers. One crushed velvet suit. One Tom Jones album. One Swedish penis pump.

Austin: That's not mine.

Agent: One credit card receipt for Swedish penis pump, signed "Austin 'Danger' Powers".

Austin: I'm telling you, baby, that's not mine.

Agent: One Swedish penis pump warranty card, filled out and signed by Austin Powers.

Austin: I don't even know what this stuff is. This type of thing ain't my bag, baby.

Agent: One book, "Swedish-made Penis Enlarger Pumps And Me: This Type Of Thing Is My Bag, Baby( by Austin Powers".

Dual Boot (1)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528193)

If your a GNU/ Linux user who likes to game then why don't you dual boot or virtualize? GNU/Linux is NOT meant for desktop level gaming, if Blizzard didn't release a Linux binary then clearly they have NO interest in you gaming on Linux.

Before someone trolls this post because 99.9% of people don't know what a troll is, I'm a Linux user and even I had to admit that I want to game I'll just reboot into my copy of Windows and game for a bit. Gaming on Linux is like trying to walk using thumb tacks, there's not enough there to make your attempt reasonable.

Re:Dual Boot (2)

Yosho (135835) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528277)

If your a GNU/ Linux user who likes to game then why don't you dual boot or virtualize?

Probably because they don't want to spend a few hundred dollars for a Windows license and have to reboot every time they feel like playing a game into an operating system that they're uncomfortable with.

Sure, Linux isn't the ideal gaming platform, but look at it from this perspective: if it does what you want and you prefer it over Windows, why not use it?

Re:Dual Boot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528431)

That's exactly it. You have to buy windows at full price and then you have the issue that it'll try to destroy your Linux install when you install it.

Posted and already debunked elsewhere. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528223)

This is a non-story. It was not WINE, or Linux, but good old fashion cheating. Kudos to Slashdot for falling for some social engineering and posting a story with no factual evidence to back it up.

I'll be back in a few minutes, going to go post that I found Steve Job's hidden World of Warcraft account on Battle.net forums, then come back here and post the story with link to the firehose. Go upvote me, because it's sensational.

Dual boot (1)

bhlowe (1803290) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528245)

The real dilemma: How to play competition games created for an operating system that you deem too offensive to own or install.. Oh the humanity!

Linux users banner from Diablo III (1)

zrbyte (1666979) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528255)

All three of them?

I predict this will end badly for Blizzard (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528279)

Just about the only thing they can do to get a significant amount of hate is go after Linux. They should know better, Sony learned: You do not fuck with the kinds of people who run Linux on their PS3s.

Incentive (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528281)

What's their incentive to fix it? They already have your money, so, if they flag you as a cheater due to some faulty definitions in their cheat buster, it's much easier and cost effective to simply deny the fact and leave you banned. It's not like Linux+Wine is going to make up a significant portion of their player base, anyway, so potential for bad PR and, by extension, lost future sales, is pretty low.

Vivendi/Blizzard has piss-poor customer service, and always has. The company has been shitting on its customers since the Blizzard North crew left. If you want a good game that hearkens to the days when Blizzard was an awesome development house, pick up Torchlight II, developed and produced by the same folks who brought you Diablo & Diablo II. /They/ are the folks you should be following; not some corporate entity that leverages every IP in its portfolio into dead-horse territory just to make a buck.

Blizzard Bans Caucasians (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40528359)

Wonder what the racial preference of Blizzard really is? One one think that the preferred race at Blizzard is 'green' as in USD, followed by 'blue' as in EURO and so on.

Lets see if Anons hack the Blizzard bank accounts. :)

LoL

I like the Gold Farmer Ad - (that way) (1)

kiriath (2670145) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528391)

When I first viewed this story and its comments, I noticed an ad in the square-ish area to the upper right that seemed to be a D3 Gold Seller. Awesome how the ads tie in with such precise relevancy.

kernel bug? (1)

itmo (605864) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528405)

Umm. Many cheat detection programs check the system clock and compare it to the server clock to see that they are runnign at the same speed etc. In linux there is/was a kernel bug related to the leap second. I wonder if that bug could cause the cheat detection to panic?

Blizzard says WRONG! (4, Informative)

Arkham (10779) | more than 2 years ago | (#40528407)

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5978861022?page=21 [battle.net]

Clearly, as usual, nobody did their research. I quote the Blizzard Community Manager:

We’ve extensively tested for false positive situations, including replicating system setups for those who have posted claiming they were banned unfairly. We’ve not found any situations that could produce a false positive, have found that the circumstances for which they were banned were clear and accurate, and we are extremely confident in our findings. Playing the game on Linux, although not officially supported, will not get you banned – cheating will.

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