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Apple Exits "Green Hardware" Certification Program

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the shiny-star-sticker dept.

Businesses 405

westlake writes "CNET reports that Apple is turning its back on the EPA supported EPEAT hardware certification program. One of the problems EPEAT sees are barriers to recycling. Batteries and screens glued into place — that sort of thing. There is a price for Apple in this: CIO Journal notes that the U.S. government requires that 95 percent of its electronics bear the EPEAT seal of approval; large companies such as Ford and Kaiser Permanente require their CIOs to buy from EPEAT-certified firms; and many of the largest universities in the U.S. prefer to buy EPEAT-friendly gear."

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No Surprise There (5, Insightful)

getto man d (619850) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578257)

Profit > The Environment

Re:No Surprise There (2)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578321)

And those in charge at those companies who "shouldn't" buy non compliant hardware, will simply bend the rules, so they can get their iShiny fix.

Re:No Surprise There (4, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578695)

Bend the rules? What for? The 5% brass gets their iShiny, and for the rest of the company we now have a really good reason why they can't have an iShiny.

It's so win-win.

Re:No Surprise There (4, Interesting)

tonywong (96839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578959)

This will be interesting to see what Apple's official response is. You can bet every other hardware vendor is watching this move, as well as the EPEAT people. If the public doesn't change their buying in response to Apple's move, then all the other vendors may decide that EPEAT certification isn't necessary for them to sell products. And EPEAT may have to change (relax/sell out/update) their rules in order to get Apple to return to the program if they feel that Apple will be the company that makes them irrelevant.

Re:No Surprise There (4, Interesting)

NonUniqueNickname (1459477) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578335)

Profit > The Environment

For Apple, sure. But for the iPhone-MacBook-iPad-owning-environmentalists this presents a dilemma (which I think will be hilarious to watch).

Re:No Surprise There (4, Informative)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578475)

But for the iPhone-MacBook-iPad-owning-environmentalists this presents a dilemma (which I think will be hilarious to watch).

That's been hilarious for quite some time now.

Re:No Surprise There (2, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578611)

Like all the Occupy protesters that have ipads and iphones...

Re:No Surprise There (-1, Troll)

rtb61 (674572) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578777)

Apple marketing created the illusion which it's products hid behind, the illusion has mostly evaporated under the glare of the truth. So Apple is basically acknowledging that it's market are the spoilt brats who don't give a crap about anything unless it is fashionable to do so, today, in the last hour, now. So it is squeezing out on cost to maximise profits because the spoilt brat market eventually becomes the no taste market, they have basically painted themselves in a corner. Fashionable fads always die, clothes, hairstyles, jewellery, food, cars, basically any imaginable accessory all go the route of the yoyo and hula hoop.

Re:No Surprise There (5, Insightful)

Sponge Bath (413667) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579073)

...spoilt brats who don't give a crap about anything unless it is fashionable

You worked yourself into a lather about someone else's choice of product, to the point of creating a caricature to beat up. Be happy with your own choices and don't obsess over people who make a different choice.

Re:No Surprise There (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578843)

You mean the Occupy protesters that wanted everybody to stick it to the banks by joining Credit Unions, even though Credit Unions have the benefit of being tax-exempt (unlike banks) and therefore contribute NOTHING to the local economy, while at the same time hating the rich for using tax breaks? Those people?

Re:No Surprise There (2, Insightful)

ThurstonMoore (605470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578969)

Lower interest rates don't contribute to the local economy? Why anyone would use a bank over a credit union is beyond me.

Re:No Surprise There (4, Insightful)

PoopMonkey (932637) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579147)

I wasn't aware that employees of credit unions are exempt from paying taxes... By providing local employment, that sure seems like providing something to the local economy. I also wasn't aware that if a credit union is building a branch office or remodeling, they get the work done for free. I guess they also get electricity, water, internet, etc for free, thus not contributing to local economy? Shocking stuff to discover...
Credit unions are also not-for-profit organizations, so it isn't quite an apples to apples comparison. Banks exist to create a profit. Credit unions do not.

Re:No Surprise There (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578479)

For Apple, sure. But for the iPhone-MacBook-iPad-owning-environmentalists this presents a dilemma (which I think will be hilarious to watch).

If any of them cared about environmental impact then their objection would be to use of consumer electronics as fashion accessories. Recyclability is a side issue in comparison.

Re:No Surprise There (2, Informative)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578481)

For the iPhone-MacBook-iPad-owning-environmentalists this presents a dilemma (which I think will be hilarious to watch).

Why? Where's the dilemma? The only issue is that the Apple products can't be easily disassembled. It's not that Apple is using environmentally damaging materials in the manufacture of their products.
The environmentalist wackos can buy Apple gear and then, when it's useful life is over, give it to Apple for free environmentally responsible disposal / recycling.

Re:No Surprise There (2)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578563)

The only issue is that the Apple products can't be easily disassembled.

Unrepairability.

Re:No Surprise There (1)

cynyr (703126) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578795)

Unrepairability by end users

Not that I'm defending apple, but they are repairable (by apple and for some definitions) and the Al chassis is recyclable.

That said as much as i would like the high res screen on the new 15" macbook, the soldered on ram and the petalobe screws are an instant deal killer.

Re:No Surprise There (5, Insightful)

cheesybagel (670288) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578849)

If the pieces are glued in a way they can't be easily separated you need to trash everything that is glued because of one malfunctioning piece. "Repairs" may end up trashing a large chunk of the appliance.

Re:No Surprise There (4, Interesting)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578819)

Unrepairability.

Which may or not be a word...

But anyway, how many non-Apple products are 'repaired'? Rather depends on your definition of repair - replacing a battery could be considered repair and certainly Apple falls short compared to some other manufacturers. However, so far, replacing an iPhone battery has not exactly been a technical challenge for all but the most mechanically declined. It remains to be seen if the newer MacBooks with the glued in battery will really challenge anyone. I suspect it wont.

While I think Apple can be taken to task for gluing a battery in rather than putting some clips on it, it's a small issue overall. I don't think it all counts towards whether or not a device is recyclable since it isn't hard to pry the battery or display out if you aren't looking to retain function.

And if you use a slightly more reasonable definition of 'repair' - replace a bad screen or other component - who actually does that these days? The person interested in such things is definitely an edge case (or nut case). The average consumer and the average store is going to toss a defective device and pick up a new shiny.

Re:No Surprise There (2)

mspohr (589790) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578981)

Thanks to Apple's brilliant design of the iPhone which has a glass front and back, the most common repair of the iPhone is to replace broken glass front or back. Parts and instructions are readily available and while it is not for the klutzy or timid, it can be done.
Who would have thought that just dropping a phone would break the glass case?... certainly not Apple... or perhaps they planned it that way.

Re:No Surprise There (1)

ThurstonMoore (605470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579019)

There's a pretty good market for replacing broken iPhone screens. I definitely wouldn't call it just for an edge case (may or not be a word).

Re:No Surprise There (0, Troll)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578625)

"give it to Apple for free environmentally responsible disposal / recycling."

No, you GIVE IT to a techie nerd that does not make $40.00 an hour so they can take it apart and fix it. Only scumbags turn in tech for recycling. honest people put it up on freecycle or give it away to a local hacker group.

Re:No Surprise There (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578905)

I'm an honest person, and I just recently recycled a ton of shitty old hardware that was sitting in my closet. Because I'd rather see it recycled than "donated" to some group that will probably end up dropping it in a dumpster when it finally shits the bed, and while it's still "functional" continue drawing ridiculous amounts of power - or did you think that current circuitry isn't more power-efficient than the shitty 10-year old Dell and that giant 21" CRT monitor I just recycled?

I didn't recycle anything through Apple, but I see no disconnect between "honesty" and "recycling" old gear. It's far past it's useful lifetime, and has been for several years. Fuck your arbitrary standards for what I should do with MY property when it's outlived its usefulness to me.

Re:No Surprise There (0)

NonUniqueNickname (1459477) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578865)

give it to Apple for free environmentally responsible disposal

That's the dilemma right there. You see, environmentalists aren't usually the ones to trust a business to do the right thing on its own. Environmentalists aren't usually the ones to be content with "Yeah sure, just leave your stuff in that bin over there, we'll recycle for ya, we'll recycle it good". Environmentalists want certification programs, they want regulations and laws to encourage enrollment in these programs.
On the one hand, they can't have businesses just walk away from the certification programs "because we trust them". On the other hand, the MacBook is so shiny.

Re:No Surprise There (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578925)

Environmentalists DEMANDED Apple run that recycling program. They should make up their damn minds.

Re:No Surprise There (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578547)

Do you mean the environmentalists who promote clean air but smoke cigarettes?

Re:No Surprise There (1, Funny)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578551)

They'll give Apple a pass, because Apple, you know, is not just some evil-multinational megacorp trying to rip people off and exploit poor foreign workers in order to expand profit margins. No, Apple is different.

It is an exercise for the reader to figure out how exactly they are different.

Re:No Surprise There (3, Interesting)

sqrt(2) (786011) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578971)

I don't know about that. My MacBook Pro has lasted three years without any problems and will probably last three more. Since my computing needs are fairly simple I don't see much reason to upgrade just for better specs. I do plan on replacing the spinning drive with an SSD and maybe putting a large HDD where the optical drive currently is. So by buying a MacBook Pro instead of a "cheaper" laptop I probably saved money (and the environment) since it will have to be replaced less often. Other brands of laptops last a couple years at most. It's not unheard of for a Mac notebook to last 5+ years and still enjoy daily use by its owner. Making products that last as long as possible does more for the environment than any specific "green" manufacturing process.

This is still an unfortunate move and I am sad that all those iPads are going to end up in landfills because the battery only holds a charge for a set number of cycles and can't be easily replaced. By the time the battery finally stops holding a charge it'll be "too old" to repair, so people will just get a new tablet. It's not just Apple that does this. Almost all the tablets on the market today are sealed boxes.

Energy == $$ (4, Insightful)

goombah99 (560566) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578363)

Total Environmental cost = manufacturing impact + use impact - recylcing recovery

typically
  recylcing recovery << manufacturing impact

all else being equal you'd like to increase recycling recovery but when there is a trade-off in that that increases the manufacturing or use cost it doesn't balance out.

The hangup is the "easy disassembly" requirement whereas electronics is going to more and more unibody assembly. EPEAT probably is going to have to give on this or be replaced if that is the trend. Since most of the environmental impact happens in manufacture and there isn't a big gain for the environment in recycling It's not necessarily environmentally unfriendly to manufacture a device that is more economical to make and to use. Generally the cheaper something is the less total energy and resources were required to make it. The exception to that is when there is a large exogenous cost not paid by the maker (e.g. say some manufacturer dumping mercury into a river but not having to pay for the consequences). Apple has not said it is planning to shortchange that part of it's environmental policies.

Re:Energy == $$ (0)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578495)

Also anecdotal data suggests Apple computers are used for longer than PC counterparts...

Re:Energy == $$ (4, Funny)

Austerity Empowers (669817) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578525)

For what this thing costs I'm going to have to use it until it biodegrades!

Re:Energy == $$ (2)

Kell Bengal (711123) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578561)

I am not convinced that is the case. I know lots of people who refresh their iphone as soon as a new version come on the market. (And yes, an iphone is a computer)

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578629)

No, an iPhone isn't a computer, it's a smartphone. Just because it has a CPU in it doesn't make it equivalent to what I have on my desktop - my washing machine has an M68000 processor, doesn't make it a computer.

And I provided all the context in my post needed to show I wasn't talking about phones.

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578669)

Yeah, but you don't run generic, interactive, computer software on your washing machine.

Or maybe you do, I don't know, Slashdot attracts some pretty good hackers occasionally, but then I'd expect you to say "Ah, but my washing machine is a computer", so it still works.

Re:Energy == $$ (2, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578719)

You're complaining that my washing machine only allows me to execute the programs that its maker decided were "good" for me?

How's that different from the iToys?

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578751)

You're complaining that my washing machine only allows me to execute the programs that its maker decided were "good" for me?

No, he's stating (without any indication that he thinks this is a Bad Thing, i.e. no "complaint") that the washing machine comes only with specialized software to control it, without any mechanism to support third-party software.

How's that different from the iToys?

Because the iPhone, iPad, and iPod touch do have a mechanism to support third-party software. Unlike some other smartphones/tablets, the only such mechanism available without jailbreaking the machine uses the vendor's store, and the vendor controls what software is allowed in the store, but that's hugely different from most if not all washing machines - our washing machine doesn't have a Whirlpool App Store from which we can get third-party aps.

Re:Energy == $$ (2)

digitalmonkey2k1 (521301) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578939)

So, I guess what we can take away from this is: "We have to get a Linux distro for washing machines"

Well, guess it's time to rip apart the ol' maytag!

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

Guy Harris (3803) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579141)

So, I guess what we can take away from this is: "We have to get a Linux distro for washing machines"

Electrolix?

Re:Energy == $$ (4, Funny)

sjames (1099) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579069)

He could install a spreadsheet program and use it for money laundering/

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

MrDoh! (71235) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578697)

If you can browse the web, answer emails, play games, remote into a server, edit txt documents, email out those docs, work on spreadsheets, and generally load up programs onto storage, run them, use them, on your washing machine like you can on phones these days, then yes, that'd be a computer too. I can make phone calls on my computer, that doesn't change what it is. I've tried to make phone calls on my washing machine, but I find it's better voice clarity if I use the dryer, the dishwasher plays a great AngryBirds too.

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578577)

When the same hardware costs more, I am not surprised they are used longer. People who use non-Apple PCs and care about hardware typically upgrade more often and better than is possible with Apple; those who do not care are not willing to pay the Apple tax unless they have another reason to (ie marketing, status symbol). Essentially, Apple computers are used longer because people who buy them are willing to spend money but do not care about performance enough to upgrade often.

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579063)

That's completely untrue.

You have to look at it from the perspective of the "know-nothing" computer buyer first. If you go into BestBuy, the Apple store, or some other quasi-knowledgeable physical store and ask for "one of those internet things" you're going to get taken for a ride and sold the most profitable for the salesperson item in the store, even if it doesn't meet your needs. This is usually the Android or cheap HP/Compaq/Gateway machine that has a sticker price of 500$. The salesperson doesn't care that it's not what you need.

I'm speaking entirely from having worked at a "BestBuy owned store", they push whatever is profitable, not what's good. It's a good place to buy something if you already know what you want, and you're not willing to buy online from tigerdirect, fry's etc. But for everyone else who doesn't have the time to dink around, building and troubleshooting their fancy wizz-bang-bells-and-whistles device, Apple offers these conveniently all-in-one fully-assembled, no-fuss devices that even a country bumpkin can use. Those same country bumpkins will never see a reason to replace or upgrade the device unless it breaks and someone tells them it is not fixable. Even a software problem (Really a PPC mac is still fixable, but unless you're somehow sold on upgrading the OS, you'll never do it) may be solved by upgrading the hardware.

We're not yet at a state in the computer/handheld/mobile industry where it's not laughable to replace a device every year. Those that make 100,000$ a year, may replace their gadgets with the latest and greatest at will, but most people aren't an obnoxious consumer and only replace their device when they are compelled to. For most people who can count to 10, they can tell the difference between this years model and last years model only having an upgraded camera (4/4S) and is otherwise exactly the same. If you're making 10,000$/year you have food and rent that must be paid first, and if an iPhone replaces 6 different 500$ gadgets(camcorder, picture camera, gps, phone, game console, television, music player, notepad/sketchbook), it's obviously a great deal than owning all these different gadgets. It's not a perfect replacement for any one of these (you'd need a computer monitor and keyboard to make it work like a laptop, or a stylus for a notepad/sketchbook) but each of these things are replaced every 1-7 years as well, so instead of buying 7 different devices, buy one device that replaces them all, and if you really need the extra features of one of those, only replace that one.

Laptops, are not particularly great examples of replacing devices. Laptops from 2004 are the same speed as current laptops, but may have 2 or 4 cores, instead of the then 1 core. But most software has yet to be engineered to take advantage of 2 cores, let alone 4 (a lot of software, particuarly games run worse on newer hardware because of the slower core speed.) Unless you're trying to use the laptop for a purpose that's better suited for a desktop (eg games, video editing, 3D modeling) a 7 year old laptop is still useable. Good luck finding parts for one. If you own a 7 year old Mac, it's still useable even now.

I'm surprised anyone still buys a point-and-shoot camera when the quality of the iPhone far surpasses that of anything that doesn't have a replaceable lens system. (eg Zoom and DSLR) My 4 year old cell phone takes 5 megapixel pictures, so does the 2 year old iPhone 4S and brand new iPad. The 5-8Mpixel point is the sweet point where most people don't care how many pixels there are unless they're using a 2K monitor or a Retina iPad. People doing video and picture acquisition as a career, aren't going to use the iPhone or iPad as their daily driver.

Given the choice of buying an iPhone or an Android phone, the iPhone is going to be picked by everyone except Apple haters, geeks who like to tinker, and people who get what they pay for. Microsoft completely blew it with Windows Mobile/Phone, and nobody wants a device that the entire investment is thrown away after 6 months. Windows RT might entice a few people who can't get out of the Microsoft ecosystem (eg exchange server, MS Office) , but I think the windows 8 interface as already seen on the Xbox, is not a very great replacement for the start-menu, as it makes everything too busy and hard to find. It's a hard sell to a country bumpkin who may not own any other computer hardware.

The only devices that don't require a PC at some point, are iPhone's and iPad's. Green certification doesn't mean a whole lot unless you're over-regulated to buy green hardware (that's all these regulations are, protectionist policy in the guise of Green Eco astroturfing.)

Laptops, iPhones and iPad's are getting too much like Delorean's, where they could be easy to fix if they weren't over-engineered. Should China one day decide to kick Apple out for whatever reason, Apple loses everything. The same would go for any company who outsources. Many people don't realize how many American brands are only one political or environmental disaster away from having their entire business go under.

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578589)

Forget recycling by disassembly, they should rate gadgets by how nasty it's going to be when some kid in southeast Asia melts the thing for a sliver of metal to sell.

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578721)

The word "cost" is used with two different meanings; a cost that is expressed in US$ and a cost that is environmental damage.
You seem to be using these two conflicting meanings as if they were the equal.

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579105)

They aren't, but only because we haven't come to a consensus for environmental damage in terms of monetary damage.

Re:Energy == $$ (0)

Ihmhi (1206036) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578845)

The hangup is the "easy disassembly" requirement

Exactly, and that's because Apple treat their customers like shit in the long run. Everything is locked in and locked down.

A piece of hardware where you can't swap out the battery or facilitate easy repairs is an affront to the consumer.

Re:Energy == $$ (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579159)

A piece of hardware where you can't swap out the battery or facilitate easy repairs is an affront to the consumer.

No, a piece of hardware where you can't swap out the battery or facilitate easy repairs is exactly what the vast majority of consumers have been demanding for years, and voting for with their dollars.

Don't confuse the things YOU want with "stuff that everybody must want."

Why do you have a fetish for a "swappable" battery? I have an iPhone, and a mophie powerstation [mophie.com] which provides me about 2.6x the charge of a standard internal iPhone battery, and can also power any other device I own which uses a USB charger - instead of multiple swappable battery packs, I have a single external battery pack that can power multiple devices, and frankly, I prefer this to multiple batteries knocking around in my bag, with special charger adapters for each one, and having to keep track of which is charged and which isn't.

As far as "repairable" - the vast majority of people who need computer repairs will bring them to a repair service (Apple, third party, Dell, or otherwise) for service, anyway - so it does not matter to them whether or not consumers can "easily service" the system. you're paying a bunch of money for someone else to repair it - the Apple designs aren't going to cost you that much more for the repair - if it takes 10 minutes to swap the part, or 17 minutes to swap the part, you're still paying for an hour of labor.

So stop crying, chum. If you want to repair your own hardware, you're in the overwhelming minority. Buy accordingly.

Re:Energy == $$ (3, Insightful)

Spykk (823586) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578965)

EPEAT probably is going to have to give on this or be replaced if that is the trend.

Right, because when environmental standards become inconvenient for big companies to adhere to then the standards need to change. We certainly can't expect companies to lessen their impact on the environment in order to meet these standards, can we?
What exactly is the point of having these standards if we just change them every time some big company decides it will be profitable?

Re:No Surprise There (0)

Pieroxy (222434) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578371)

Profit > The Environment

Your naivety is refreshing.

Re:No Surprise There (5, Interesting)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578451)

Profit > The Environment

Apple's move is driven by a design / certification dichotomy, not a profit / environment dichotomy.

Whether a given device is EPEAT certified says absolutely nothing about whether it is actually more or less likely to be recycled or whether it is more or less a burden on the environment. All is says is that the device can be relatively easily disassembled for recycling by unskilled labor without special equipment.

If Apple is willing to take all old devices for free environmentally responsible disposal / recycling (and I believe they are), then the EPEAT certification is of no great value to the environment in the case of Apple's devices.

Re:No Surprise There (1)

postmortem (906676) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579133)

Profit > *
is more accurate.

So...... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578261)

And what is the penalty for not following the requirements and buying whatever you feel like buying?

US regulators are pretty light on the fines, so might end up being cheaper and more productive to ignore and pay the fine.

EU on the other hand laying down near billion dollar fines on things.......companies may comply there.

Re:So...... (2)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578419)

And what is the penalty for not following the requirements and buying whatever you feel like buying?

Soon it will be a federal penalty... errr tax...errr something.. .

Re:So...... (1)

kqs (1038910) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579205)

US regulators are pretty light on the fines, so might end up being cheaper and more productive to ignore and pay the fine.

I believe that the fines for showing Janet Jackson's nipple during the Super Bowl were many times worse than the fines for dumping toxic waste into a river for a decade. As always, we Americans have our priorities straight! :-(

hardware maintainability (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578285)

Based on the short article, I would say that compliant equipment will be more easily repaired. At least the batteries will not be glued in place.

Apple doesn't give a crap about business anyway (5, Insightful)

mwfischer (1919758) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578317)

No xserves, Lion Server is a piece of shit, ARD is a $90 add-on, took 3 years for a corporate iOS configuration tool, 5 for a competent one, Final Cut X rivals Windows Movie Composer, Mac Pros are $4,000 for almost 3 year old hardware, and with 10.8 tethering every machine to the App Store there are no "unregistered" machines...

They're pro-sumer devices anymore.

Re:Apple doesn't give a crap about business anyway (1)

Dolphinzilla (199489) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578497)

my company still won't approve any iPhones or iPads for corporate use because of the weak security features (so the IT guys say), Apple really doesn't 't give a crap about businesses and hence Blackberry stays in business....

Re:Apple doesn't give a crap about business anyway (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578617)

I don't think I'd like to work anywhere the IT guys spread FUD in order to keep you on 5 y/o dead end tech.

Re:Apple doesn't give a crap about business anyway (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578631)

my company still won't approve any iPhones or iPads for corporate use because of the weak security features (so the IT guys say), Apple really doesn't 't give a crap about businesses and hence Blackberry stays in business....

This sounds like bullshit since Apple has full-disk encryption + per app data encryption (with various flexibility options) + s/mime for email. Even iMessage and APNs uses TLS. So what else does an IT Department need?

Re:Apple doesn't give a crap about business anyway (1)

mlts (1038732) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578667)

It all depends on what security features are called "weak". On one hand, the device has full disk encryption, supports Exchange policies and profiles and Apple even has a tool to add additional protection.

One can argue this a lot. However, given the choice between SSL/TLS or depending on BES/BIS, I'll take the former any day of the week.

Re:Apple doesn't give a crap about business anyway (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578771)

you sound like an angry windows tech support peon probably because that is precisely what you are.

MBP with Retina display obviously not recyclable. (1)

makomk (752139) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578323)

It was obvious from the teardowns that the MPB with Retina Display was designed in a way that made enviromentally-friendly disposal impossible. So that's how Apple were planning on solving the problem - redefining what it means to be environmentally-friendly!

EPEAT = Ugly? (4, Interesting)

Mal-2 (675116) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578353)

It seems that some of the EPEAT requirements lead to bulkier designs and quite possibly extra parts needed to hold it all together. It seems inevitable that this would violate the design principles Apple has been using for the last decade-plus, at least with portable products. If there's a way to shave a millimeter or a gram here and there, Apple will find a way to do it. It's one way they achieve product differentiation from the competition. Unfortunately, doing so means gluing things together and wedging things up tight in ways that don't want to be disassembled.

I'm a bit surprised Apple isn't outright saying "EPEAT compliance means making our products ugly, and you don't want THAT, do you?"

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (5, Insightful)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578383)

Glue is not a replacement for proper engineering

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578417)

as someone who has disassembled many of apple's glued-together-displays, i can say without a doubt that there is room inside for fasteners or magnets (like those used in the iMacs). Glue is just a way to keep the cost of repair high enough that replacement SEEMS like a better option for the user when the time comes.

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578423)

I'm sure the tablet that you're building in the basement will be just as solid as Apples'. When are you releasing or making your obviously great knowledge of engineering known to the world? I have tons of money i'd like to give you.

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578465)

Adhesive bonding is engineering.

Practical Guide to Adhesive Bonding of Small Engineering Plastic and Rubber Parts
Dr. Robert Goss

Advances in Structural Adhesive Bonding
D. Dillard

Adhesive Bonding of Aluminum Alloys
Thrall

Center for Adhesive Bonding Technology
bremen-bonding.com

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (1)

bky1701 (979071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578593)

"Adhesive bonding is engineering."

He specifically said proper engineering. Gluing stuff together because you do not want people to be able to service their own devices, or because you are too cheap to pay for proper clasps/screws in the design, or because you can just get away with it and don't care, is not really proper engineering.

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (4, Interesting)

bsane (148894) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578649)

Meeting price points is part of engineering... shrinking the form factor a few mm each iteration is part of engineering. Apple cares about those things more than your ability to replace a battery with a screwdriver. Lets not pretend they're poorly engineered, they're engineered exceedingly well for their specs. Samsung would love to have an exact copy, I promise you.

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579079)

Precisely. Thank you for replying to the no true Scotsman fallacy with a counterexample instead of flames.

I cannot say that I personally like apple products, the company, or the culture that surrounds both, but their engineering discipline is undeniable. It is in the design and manufacture of hardware products where their innovation shines.

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579101)

Real engineers use duct tape.

Re:EPEAT = Ugly? (2)

tomhath (637240) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578509)

The depends on your definition of engineering. Ease of manufacturing, low cost, maybe even improved reliability are all design factors. Making the unit repairable and recyclable are also factors, but not necessarily important ones. Also, planned obsolescence works best when the item can't be repaired or upgraded; customers are forced to buy the next generation product.

Except phones and tablets (4, Informative)

tomhath (637240) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578361)

I expect Apple is going to put pressure on EPEAT to relax their standards for laptops. But this won't hurt Apple much anyway since phones and tablets aren't rated anyway [wsj.com] :

an increasing part of its product mix is made up of iPhones and iPads, which are not currently certifiable under EPEAT.

Opportunity for Google/Motorola (2)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578367)

Seriously, this is an interesting opportunity for Google/Motorola to not only bring manufacturing back to the USA/west, but to get sales just by being environmental about it.

This is serious (1)

roc97007 (608802) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578391)

On the face of it, EPEAT directly conflicts with the Apple business plan. This is going to be interesting.

New Standard (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578401)

Apple may soon introduce an alternate green standard to apply to its products, CIO Journal reports.

Your new gadget is iCertified iGreen by Apple, unlike those dirty, destructive non-iGreen Samsung products. Not that I'm trying to boost Samsung, I just find the idea of creating your own standard when you fail a 3rd-party's rather funny.

Re:New Standard (1)

Dahamma (304068) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578681)

Otherwise known as "Granny Smith". (c) (tm) (R)

as long (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578407)

as long as they ship their products to europe it has to adhear to the much much stricter european ROHS...

Re:as long (2)

busyqth (2566075) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578463)

as long as they ship their products to europe it has to adhear to the much much stricter european ROHS...

Apples and Oranges: It's a completely different type of standard.

Apple isn't pulling out of EPEAT so they can use hazardous or environmentally damaging materials in the manufacture of their products. They are pulling out of EPEAT so they can glue stuff together instead of using screws.

Re:as long (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578685)

ROHS isn't a standard, ROHS is forced forbidden substance usage.
America has no real regulation about anything, you're still allowed to sell lead paint...

Re:as long (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579021)

Which, incidentally, means that they can build their products with less materials, etc. Screws are typically made of steel, and separating them out from the aluminum when the machine is recycled means more labor to do the job and higher cost to recycle.

Good move, Apple! (4, Insightful)

sk999 (846068) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578521)

Where I work we buy a lot of Mac laptops, but all must be EPEAT-compliant (or a variance must be granted, which isn't likely for that many machines.) I sense a lot of disgruntlement coming.

Good move, Apple - you may have just saved Steve Ballmer's job.

Re:Good move, Apple! (4, Funny)

John Bresnahan (638668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578559)

Good move, Apple - you may have just saved Steve Ballmer's job.

Given Ballmer's performance, helping him save his job may be the smartest move Apple could make.

Re:Good move, Apple! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578573)

Don't worry. All of his Surface tablets will probably fail EPEAT too. And so will the new Ultrabooks that assemblers are pushing.

EPEAT is obsolete in this area (4, Insightful)

Anubis IV (1279820) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578603)

EPEAT is only valuable in assessing products that don't have dedicated recycling programs in place. I.e. It's useful for assessing the general case, but fails to take into account any special considerations pertaining to particular products.

For instance, Apple has had a recycling program available for years that is available as a free service to any of their customers. Given that Apple is promising to recycle your devices (including non-Apple ones) for you regardless of how difficult it is to do so, the ease of recycling them should be a non-factor to anyone but Apple, rendering the difficulty of recycling a meaningless measurement for outside consideration. And the fact that they've provided a decent incentive to use their service rather than go to a general purpose recycler has provided a good reason for it to be widely used. Most of the Apple folks I know are aware of the recycling program, even if they haven't had a reason to use it yet.

Specifically, to use it, you just tell them what you have, and they'll send you pre-paid packaging for your device. In the case of computers (including non-Apple ones) or iOS devices, they'll give you a gift card for the fair market value of your device, and they give you 10% off a new iPod if you bring your old one into a retail location for recycling. They also take non-Apple mobile phones free of charge and with pre-paid shipping, though they don't offer any gift cards or discounts.

To me, at least in this one narrow area, that all renders EPEAT's assessment obsolete, since it's failed to keep up with the times. It needs some way to account for such programs.

Re:EPEAT is obsolete in this area (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578659)

A rare and surprisingly rational post here. Thank you for lifting my spirits.

Re:EPEAT is obsolete in this area (3, Insightful)

makomk (752139) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578805)

For instance, Apple has had a recycling program available for years that is available as a free service to any of their customers. Given that Apple is promising to recycle your devices (including non-Apple ones) for you regardless of how difficult it is to do so, the ease of recycling them should be a non-factor to anyone but Apple, rendering the difficulty of recycling a meaningless measurement for outside consideration.

Apparently Apple dump the problem of recycling their devices onto a third-party contractor, which gives them a lot of plausible deniability. I'd be interested to see an investigation into what actually happens to Apple hardware once it's handed over for recycling - even if Apple has said that the hardware that's handed over is recycled, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's actually economically feasible for its recycling subcontractors to do so.

Re:EPEAT is obsolete in this area (1)

sk999 (846068) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578949)

EPEAT covers more than recycling - it also covers materials incorporated into the product.

Apple's recycling program only makes sense if there is no other recycling program available. Otherwise, it becomes a liability. Imagine having a recyling bin that accepts all types of cans ... oh wait, except Miller cans, for these you have to order a box and send them back separately.

Re:EPEAT is obsolete in this area (2)

westlake (615356) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578957)

To me, at least in this one narrow area, that all renders EPEAT's assessment obsolete, since it's failed to keep up with the times. It needs some way to account for such programs.

I want to make one thing clear:

Recycling is not the only issue.

EPEAT evaluates how much a given product impacts the environment, taking into account its recyclability, upgradeability, manufacturing processes, and energy consumption. Apple had previously touted EPEAT certification as a high point, with the company's most recent iMacs having received the organization's highest rating, EPEAT Gold.

Apple pulls its products from EPEAT 'green' certification registry [theverge.com]

Since I submitted this story, CNET has embedded a link to its video review of the Mac Book Retina. It is a beautiful machine. But it cannot be serviced or upgraded in any meaningful way.

Apple doesnt give a fuck about anything (-1, Flamebait)

Jackie_Chan_Fan (730745) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578619)

Apple will fist fuck your mother for a dime

Re:Apple doesnt give a fuck about anything (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578861)

if by "fist fuck" you mean sell her a high quality phone with great user experience then yes that's very true.

Re:Apple doesnt give a fuck about anything (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578901)

The "fist fuck" part might be true, but the "dime" part is way off.

Re:Apple doesnt give a fuck about anything (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40578907)

For a dime? Even your momma isn't that good.

Re:Apple doesnt give a fuck about anything (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579025)

What's there to give a fuck about? By the time any of this matters I'll be dead and buried. Fuck it. I'm living for today. Fuck tomorrow.

Re:Apple doesnt give a fuck about anything (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579083)

Besides some nuclear war will probably destroy the earth long before a bunch of retina displays pile up somewhere. I used to want to "contribute to humanity" to give my life meaning then I realized what's the point when 100 or 1000 years out eventually a nuclear armageddon is going to pop off and it'll all be for nothing. I'm with you bro, i'm not sacrificing my one and only life so some theoretical future person can be happy. This is MY life and if you don't like my retina Macbook you can kiss my motherfucking ass.

What's so problematic about glue? (1)

sco08y (615665) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578785)

If you're just disassembling used electronics to recycle the parts, don't you just use a heat gun? That doesn't seem like it would require any special skills.

Re:What's so problematic about glue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40579057)

Recycling has to be cheap, otherwise no one will do it.
Equipping all recycling workers with heat guns is much more expensive than equipping them with screwdrivers.

EPEAT what? EPEAT who? (1)

QAPete (717838) | more than 2 years ago | (#40578791)

In a press conference, Apple (after muttering to themselves "we care about EPEAT approval WHY?") stated simply, "Kneel before Zod!"

Not a profit vs environment issue (2)

pubwvj (1045960) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579137)

The issue here has nothing to do with environmentalism or profitability. It is about building better, more rugged equipment. If the hardware certification program is outdated in its specifications then it makes sense to leave and move on, which is what Apple is doing.

I predict that the program will update itself to account for this and Apple will rejoin, after the changes are there.

Apple no longer a green company? (1)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579171)

The hipsters aren't gonna like this...

Corps are doing BYOD (1)

toolo (142169) | more than 2 years ago | (#40579173)

So - they don't care. Point to OWA/Activesync, use SSL VPN to get to apps and RDP to your box in the office, done. A lot of small companies won't be here soon but a lot of big corps are there now. They do not give a crap about enterprise penetration.

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