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NY Couple On "Wanted" Poster For Filming Police

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the don't-watch-us-we'll-watch-you dept.

Privacy 541

Hugh Pickens writes "Ben Fractenberg and Jeff Mays write that the NYPD has created a 'wanted' poster for a Harlem couple who film cops conducting stop-and-frisks and post the videos on YouTube — branding them 'professional agitators' who portray cops in a bad light and listing their home address. The flyer featuring side-by-side mugshots of Matthew Swaye and Christina Gonzalez and the couple's home address was taped to a podium outside a public hearing room in the 30th Precinct house and warns officers to be on guard against them. The couple has filmed officers stopping and frisking and arresting young people of color in Harlem and around New York City, which they post on Gonzalez's YouTube account. They said their actions are legal. 'There have been times when it's gotten combative. There have been times when they [police officers] have videoed Christina,' says Swaye. 'But if we were breaking the law they would have arrested us.' Swaye was part of a group of advocates including Cornel West who were detained at the 28th Precinct in Harlem in October for protesting the stop-and-frisk policy which Mayor Bloomberg strongly defends. "

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Amazing (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583489)

It's amazing what we let what amounts to State employees get away with.

Re:Amazing (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583549)

we don't. democracy in the US is a failure. the feedback loop between government action and election of representatives is so tenuous as to not be perceptible.

during an election a candidate gnashes his teeth about some hot-button issue, which, if elected, he will completely ignore.
education and immigration are classics.

the government just continues to do things, a mindless bacterial colony

i don't see how you can ascribe any intent or meaning to any of it except the reflexive actions of a colony of self-perpetuating organisms

Re:Amazing (5, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583723)

If the representatives get away with something, it's because people don't care.

Now, go find a random person and talk to him about the importance of copyright limitations, and see how long it takes before his eyes glaze over in boredom.

Then take a topic people actually do care somewhat about, like collusion between banks and regulators, and they'll agree with you, saying, "Yeah, someone should do something about that, it's horrible!" This is a medium level of caring. They care, but not enough to stop watching American Idol or stop playing video games or whatever.

Finally take a topic people actually care enough about to vote on. If a politician raises taxes, there's a good chance he'll be voted out next election. Take money from my wallet, I'm really going to be upset! As a result, taxes have gone consistently lower, in every administration, in a bipartisan manner. Not even Obama dares to raise taxes on everybody.

Politicians respond when people actually care. When people don't pay attention, they do whatever they want.

Re:Amazing (5, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583773)

If the representatives get away with something, it's because people don't care.

Uh, no. It's because all they can do is elect a replacement who will treat them just the same, or get out the burning torches, pitchforks and ropes.

Finally take a topic people actually care enough about to vote on. If a politician raises taxes, there's a good chance he'll be voted out next election.

And replaced by a clone who keeps taxes just as high as they were, because even if he does cut the specific tax that resulted in his election, he sneaks in other stealth tax increases to compensate.

Re:Amazing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40584123)

Taxes high?

You are one fucking ignorant Liberatard.

Federal Taxes are the lowest they have been in the past 60 years.

.

Also The Starve the Beast theory is a failure, even the Libertarian Cato Institute's own research shows that, not just once, but twice.

You want lower taxes, or more actual money, my guess is you actually want more money, and they only way to do that is to add more taxes on the 1%, .1% and .01%; you know the fuckers who are making 100-800 times what you're making.

But no, my guess is you're going to continue to vote for the birthday cake party instead.

Taxing the other party (4, Insightful)

Oxford_Comma_Lover (1679530) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584011)

Actually, each party is happy to raise taxes on the other party, they just don't call it raising taxes.

Democrats are happy to raise taxes on rich people who are unlikely to vote democrat. The individual mandate is an example, as well as the fight over raising taxes during the budget struggles last year.

Republicans are happy to raise taxes on poor people. This is what ending welfare and reducing EITC do. They call it ending subsidies or socialism or welfare instead of raising taxes, but they're happy to do it.

Re:Amazing (0)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583833)

you are right.

look at this program (simple that it may be):

echo "1"

now, would you try different versions of shell or os to try to get a different answer? it will always say one, won't it? my point is that we can't expect change from candidate A or B when the whole system is just broken beyond repair. yes, BEYOND REPAIR. we have 200 years or more of trying to patch a bad o/s and its not working. no one, who is honest, thinks that our system is fair or even works partially.

revolution time, folks. I see no other way. do you? change the program and you'll get some other answer. keep running the same stupid program and you won't get the change you need.

vote D or R? vote at all? you think that matters? did it ever? did it really??

Re:Amazing (0, Troll)

defaria (741527) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583847)

Great. Now dude, fucking leave if you don't like it here!

Re:Amazing (5, Interesting)

NFN_NLN (633283) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584109)

Great. Now dude, fucking leave if you don't like it here!

You come across like a douche, but technically that was the approach used by Europeans to escape tyranny at home. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anymore free land we can trade glass beads and firewater for. So, now we are forced to deal with people like you.

Re:Amazing (4, Insightful)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583999)

democracy in the US is a failure. the feedback loop between government action and election of representatives is so tenuous as to not be perceptible.

You seem to be implying that a majority of the voters object to stop-and-frisk. Do you have any evidence to back that up? Personally, I find the practice to be appalling, and I am surprised that the courts consider it to be constitutional. But in casual conversations with my fellow citizens, my perception is that a clear majority support it, or at least tolerate it. So I don't see how this is a "failure of democracy".

Re:Amazing (5, Insightful)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583605)

As a state employee (I'm not a cop) its amazing what we let corporate employees get away with too.

Re:Amazing (1)

green1 (322787) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583799)

I tend to hear things like "the customer service rep at ____ was an idiot! I'm never shopping there again!" I rarely however hear "that government employee was an idiot! I'm never voting ______ again!"
So obviously we think of these things differently somehow. I'm not saying that this is the way things SHOULD be, but I think as a society we hold companies accountable for their worker's actions a lot more than we hold governments accountable for the actions of the civil servants.

Re:Amazing (5, Insightful)

DinDaddy (1168147) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583813)

So I can choose not to provide any funds to the state if I don't like their actions like I can with a corporation?

Corporate employees can wreak havoc with my life like the police can?

While your statement is true, it does not reach the level of equivalency.

Re:Amazing (1)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584061)

Surely this contravenes the European Human Rights Bill

Ho ... wait...

Re:Amazing (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583721)

It's amazing what we let what amounts to State employees get away with.

"I have in my hand 57 cases of individuals who would appear to be either card carrying members or certainly loyal to the Communist Party, but who nevertheless are still helping to shape our foreign policy...."

-Joseph McCarthy, Speech at Wheeling, West Virginia

Re:Amazing (1)

blackraven14250 (902843) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584037)

I actually wonder how Bloomberg will respond to this incident. He's reasonable enough where he may go against the cops in this case.

So they made flyer? (0, Flamebait)

garcia (6573) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583505)

From the article:

The pair said they are considering legal options over the flyer, but will more likely use the incident to raise awareness about stop-and-frisk.

The only reason they would consider legal options would be because it would bring awareness to their (admittedly excellent) campaign.

If they want to record the cops doing what they believe is wrong, I honestly don't see why the police cannot publicly post a warning to other officers in what seems to be a mostly harmless joking way.

Listen, public embarrassment and notice is a two way street. If you want to publicly post the actions of the police, I don't see why you should feel others couldn't do the same to you.

Re:So they made flyer? (2, Interesting)

cultiv8 (1660093) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583527)

It (the flyer) was spotted by multiple people, including the couple, when it was taped to a podium outside a public hearing room in the 30th Precinct house last Thursday, where residents met for precinct council meeting.

It could have been anyone to post the flyer, including the couple themselves.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

Rockoon (1252108) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583559)

Are mugshots public record?

Re:So they made flyer? (3, Informative)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583571)

mugshots.com

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583991)

Are mugshots public record?

only in America.

that's where those classic celeb mugshots come from.

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583797)

It could have been anyone to post the flyer, including the couple themselves.

That's it! The couple posted their pictures and home address for all to see, just to get some cops in trouble!

Seriously, am I the only one on Slashdot who think that conspiracy theorists like this guy are completely fucked up?

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

zill (1690130) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583803)

Apparently, it's illegal to put up fake wanted posters. Impersonating police officers and whatnot.

It cost me a misdemeanor charge and banishment from every walmart in the city to find this out.

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Informative)

Monkey-Man2000 (603495) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584003)

If you look closely at the bottom of the pic it seems that it is signed by Sgt. Nicholson(?) in PCT 30 and lists a cell phone #.

But that is a fact. (1)

Oh Gawwd Peak Oil (1000227) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584069)

But, you see, that is a fact. That won't play well on Slashdot, where coming up with a conspiracy theory that attacks anyone who dares question the police will, it appears, get you so many more mod points.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583535)

It is not the police's duty to make jokes. It takes away from the seriousness we task them with. Perform your jobs like professional or we will replace you.

Re:So they made flyer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583569)

Doesn't quite work like that in Manhattan, or the rest of New York, but Manhattan in particular. The NYPD has a tremendous amount of power. An officer won't just be replaced because of minority outcry.

Re:So they made flyer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583589)

are you seriously arguing that it is impermissible for police to have a sense of humor?

Re:So they made flyer? (5, Insightful)

tmosley (996283) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583657)

Are you seriously arguing that posting a wanted poster that includes the home address of two dissidents is funny?

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

joocemann (1273720) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583743)

Are you seriously arguing that posting a wanted poster that includes the home address of two dissidents is funny?

it also amounts to a form of blacklisting, which is illegal.

If the police were honest, they would have nothing to hide! (Turning tables with tongue firmly in cheek)

Re:So they made flyer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40584019)

Yes, if they dare to go against the police anything is fair game. You lib'ruls should loosen up, it's funny. And god bless my political party, the Republican party!

Re:So they made flyer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583697)

In this case, it's not funny "hee-hee" but funny "hah-hah" as in a Nelsonian bully sort of way.

It's the difference between a case of chuckles, and reveling in the misery of others.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583603)

Really now. I actually prefer cops to have a sense of humor. Without it they burn out quickly.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

JustOK (667959) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583635)

Are they allowed to have a sense of rhythm?

Like in this video of a police beating? http://youtu.be/7KTnLVzI2q4 [youtu.be]

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583753)

In other words, it's the kind of joke a sociopath might enjoy. And why is it that any jurisdiction would want such individuals in their police force, or even being allowed to carry a gun?

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Interesting)

morcego (260031) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583543)

The only reason they would consider legal options would be because it would bring awareness to their (admittedly excellent) campaign.

If they want to record the cops doing what they believe is wrong, I honestly don't see why the police cannot publicly post a warning to other officers in what seems to be a mostly harmless joking way.

Listen, public embarrassment and notice is a two way street. If you want to publicly post the actions of the police, I don't see why you should feel others couldn't do the same to you.

Pretty sure posting their home address on the flyer can have some legal implications.

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Informative)

kmahan (80459) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583581)

The cops definitely get upset if you post THEIR pics and home addresses.

Re:So they made flyer? (2, Insightful)

Xtifr (1323) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583855)

Pics are on thing, home addresses are another, and you are at least bordering on asshole territory by implying that the two can be treated as equivalent. But maybe you're merely confused about the situtation or haven't thought it through properly, so I'll hold off on assigning you any motives. :)

Posting pics is perfectly reasonable for both sides, as long as they're taken in public, and aren't being exploited commercially. A little more reasonable for the couple, since the cops are public servants, but no big deal on either side, really.

Posting home addresses by either side is way beyond the boundaries of acceptable behavior. Even in retaliation for a similar offense, it would have been morally questionable. As a retaliation for the perfectly reasonable behavior of posting pics? Utterly contemptible! The cops were way out of line here!

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584027)

Pics are on thing, home addresses are another, and you are at least bordering on asshole territory by implying that the two can be treated as equivalent.

Nobody implied that they were equivalent, you inferred that all on your own. The statement as it is written is a bit vague, though; it would better say "or". The statement as written is completely true, and further, it's what the cops have done; post pics and home address, which amounts to where to go and who to harass. Further, the flyer implies that they are criminals and makes unsupported statements about them and thus definitely amounts to deliberate libel, not that this is surprising.

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Informative)

kmahan (80459) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584125)

Did you read the post?

        "The flyer featuring side-by-side mugshots of Matthew Swaye and Christina Gonzalez and the couple's home address was taped to a podium outside a public hearing room..."

So the cops publicly posted the photos and HOME ADDRESS of these people.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583611)

That's the one thing I saw that didn't look like a good idea. If something were to happen there might be some severe repercussions from that.

Re:So they made flyer? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583561)

agreed it is a 2 way street, but the given title of a "public agitator" from the cops appears like an exaggeration, it sounds like naming calling & whistleblower-revenge. i just hope that good prevails on both sides,

Re:So they made flyer? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583585)

Listen, public embarrassment and notice is a two way street. If you want to publicly post the actions of the police, I don't see why you should feel others couldn't do the same to you.

Maybe because police are public servants and private citizens are not.
IMHO public servants should be publically scrutinized.

Re:So they made flyer? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583593)

If they want to record the cops doing what they believe is wrong, I honestly don't see why the police cannot publicly post a warning to other officers

Unfortunately, for your simplistic, naive 'fair and balanced' BS, the relationship between police and non-police isn't symmetrical - the police have governmental backed power and effectively unlimited financial resources (taxpayer dollars).

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Insightful)

amiga3D (567632) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583595)

The way I look at it, the police have video cameras in cars and you routinely see traffic stop and arrest footage from these cameras on tv shows such as Cops. Turnabout is fair play.

Re:So they made flyer? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583609)

WTF, no! It is not a "two way street". Police officers are equipped with privileges that allow them to use force and detain people. That's why public scrutiny of their actions is not just acceptable but necessary. This does not apply to other people, who do not have these privileges. Putting them on a "wanted poster" implies wrongdoing, so this is particularly unacceptable.

Re:So they made flyer? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583897)

Bullshit. Police officers are citizens too. Please describe for me one 'privilege' that a police officer has that a citizen who is not a police officer does not have.

Re:So they made flyer? (3, Informative)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583947)

For one, the right to perform an actual arrest.

Just an FYI, a "citizen's arrest" is limited to essentially yelling "hey, stop!". No use of force, not even grabbing by the arm. No handcuffs, no restraints, nothing. So no, it is not at all the same thing.

Re:So they made flyer? (2)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584039)

Exactly. Citizen's arrest provides pretty much none of legal protections afforded to police officers when they arrest people. You can be liable for both criminal and civil charges if you abuse the limited power granted by the state in performing a citizen's arrest.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583951)

Bullshit. Police officers are citizens too. Please describe for me one 'privilege' that a police officer has that a citizen who is not a police officer does not have.

The GP already gave you two: using force and detaining people.

Re:So they made flyer? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40584017)

Easy. Just try to do a "stop and frisk" on another private citizen and see how well the police respond to that. Oh or try to issue traffic tickets. Or pull people over and perform searches of their body or their car. Or go into people's houses searching and seizing their property. I could go on with the powers and privileges afforded to police officers by their position that an ordinary private citizen doesn't have. One can only hope you're retarded and not actually that dumb by choice.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

Apuleius (6901) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583639)

It's not so harmless and jokey when it includes their home addresses.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583667)

" If you want to publicly post the actions of the police, I don't see why you should feel others couldn't do the same to you."

Because police are public employees and acting with public authority.

Re:So they made flyer? (4, Informative)

TooMuchToDo (882796) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583747)

Listen, public embarrassment and notice is a two way street. If you want to publicly post the actions of the police, I don't see why you should feel others couldn't do the same to you.

False.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_figure [wikipedia.org]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation [wikipedia.org]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invasion_of_privacy [wikipedia.org]

police are subject to stricter rules (4, Insightful)

khipu (2511498) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583807)

Listen, public embarrassment and notice is a two way street. If you want to publicly post the actions of the police, I don't see why you should feel others couldn't do the same to you.

There's a big difference between what people do in their capacity as private citizens and as government employees. Police are acting as government employees; that gives them both specific powers, and it imposes additional responsibilities on them.

For example, I have a constitutional right to discriminate against you based on your race or religion in my private life; police violate the law if they do the same in their work.

Re:So they made flyer? (2)

houghi (78078) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583811)

I don't see why you should feel others couldn't do the same to you.

Because the police is not people. It is there to enforce law. If the police do not like something that is done against them, then they must take it up with a judge.
They are not the public, so they do not answer to the same laws and reasoning.
They are there to uphold the law. If they see something that is illegal, they must go to court and let a judge decide for them, unless it is something like a ticket.
In now way or form should they be allowed to take the law in their own hands. In no way should they be able to do this. If they are allowed to do so, then your laws are in worse shape then you thought.

Re:So they made flyer? (1)

DarkOx (621550) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583957)

I agree what there doing is a huge public service and that they seem to understand that if your try to embarrass the police they are likely to do the same to you. I would expect nothing else. I am actually pleasantly surprised they have not been picked up repeatedly on trumped up charges. The police could be acting much worse.

The police really did escalate things by publishing the pairs home address however. I suppose the next move is really to follow the police home from the station and publish their address. Perhaps when they and their families are placed in added danger they will realize this is getting out of hand and everyone will start to de-escalate. Police need to just learn to deal with the fact that in a free society they can and should be watched.

WE NEED COMMUNISM NOW (0)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583507)

viva Trotsky! I presume that everyone here at Slashdort will agree with me on this one: capitalism must die, the workers must rule! GOROROROROROLOROGOROTORORORRO!

Re:WE NEED COMMUNISM NOW (1)

tmosley (996283) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583671)

It's already long dead. If you want Communism, I'm afraid it is Fascism you are going to have to kill or co-opt first.

Re:WE NEED COMMUNISM NOW (2)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583683)

In the real world, the difference between Fascism and Communism is about as significant as the difference between Coke and Pepsi.

Turn-about is fair play, isn't it? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583511)

So do the same to the NYPD. Dox a pig each week, and kindly let everyone know where their family lives/works/goes to school. I never thought I'd see ther day where I'd root a cops' death, but the NYPD needs to be cleansed by fire.

Love to get a copy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583515)

I'll hang it next to my Angela Davis poster.

In Capitalist USA, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583533)

the Police arrest YOU.

Walking while black (5, Insightful)

flyingfsck (986395) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583565)

Well obviously the Harlem residents must be guilty of something, otherwise the police won't stop and frisk them...

Re:Walking while black (5, Insightful)

sociocapitalist (2471722) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583861)

Well obviously the Harlem residents must be guilty of something, otherwise the police won't stop and frisk them...

Yes they're guilty of being Harlem residents.

Re:Walking while black (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583879)

Well obviously the Harlem residents must be guilty of something, otherwise the police won't stop and frisk them...

That's absolutely correct! And we all know that most violent is committed by non-white people - especially violent crime. The whole jazz about all the serial killers being white is just pseudo-science. And we all know that those brown skinned people may very well be Muslims terrorists - my bad, that was redundant.

Anyway, what I really think we ought to do is give the police even more powers in order for us to stay free - a police state is the only way to have a safe and secure free country.

These damn Liberals with their "Civil Liberties" are just anti-American! Why I saw on Fox News people who actually think that the police can make mistakes and even some cops will lie! Can you believe such stupidity!

Until we get Barack Hussein Obama out of office, we are going to become a Socialist Country buried in violent crime just like Europe!

Re:Walking while black (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583943)

Well obviously the Harlem residents must be guilty of something, otherwise the police won't stop and frisk them...

It might even be because other Harlem residents called the police to report a crime!

Because when a crime happens there is an actual victim who might, even though they're black, get tired of that shit and call the police.

"Professional Agitators"? (5, Interesting)

Patman64 (1622643) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583577)

Sounds like libel, especially since they are not making any money off it. They should get in contact with the ACLU.

Also, very classy of the NYPD to do a public smearing of people who show their abuses to the public. They'll happily invade your privacy at random, but don't you dare film them while they abuse people on your dollar!

Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (4, Insightful)

strikethree (811449) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583579)

Seriously, why would the police care if the police are doing nothing wrong? Are the videos revealing operational secrets that will make these "stop and frisk" actions less useful? Whatever their reason is, I would like to use that reason against them when they are requiring the same of me.

Which brings me to a question: How is "stop and frisk" not a violation of rights? It seems to be CLEARLY a violation of the 4th and perhaps even the 5th.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583669)

The rule of law is dead in the United States. I say this as a 30-year citizen with a functioning memory.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (4, Insightful)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584035)

with a functioning memory

A blow on the head from a night-stick will soon fix that!

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583701)

Which brings me to a question: How is "stop and frisk" not a violation of rights? It seems to be CLEARLY a violation of the 4th and perhaps even the 5th.

Unfortunately, the US Supreme court disagrees. It's called a Terry stop:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop [wikipedia.org]

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (4, Interesting)

strikethree (811449) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583777)

Fair enough. From the link you provided, "The name derives from Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968),[2] in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that police may briefly detain a person who they reasonably suspect is involved in criminal activity".

To me, it sounds like there is no REASONABLE suspicion of criminal activity though. It sounds like they are grabbing random people who are not dressed like a businessman or who do not have the proper skin color... Which disqualifies them as true Terry stops. :/

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (3, Informative)

Telephone Sanitizer (989116) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583835)

> To me, it sounds like there is no REASONABLE
> suspicion of criminal activity

A "reasonable and articulable suspicion" that the suspect is armed.

These stop-and-frisks are not Terry stops.

There is no basis for them under the law.

There are some law enforcement personnel who are allowed to do stops like this in the post-9/11 era... The Customs and Border Protection arm of the DHS.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583703)

Different rules apply to our superiors in NYC. Try implementing the exact same stop-and-frisk policy in any other jurisdiction, and the Supreme Court would slap it down with alacrity.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (1, Interesting)

strikethree (811449) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583801)

Are there not enough terrorists in this world? Why do they feel the need to create more?

and why is everyone replying as an Anonymous Coward? Are you all seriously THAT afraid of the powers that be? Let them kill you. It sucks, but life has to end sometime. You may as well make it is inconvenient as possible to enjoy "their abuse of power" with your death.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (5, Informative)

Telephone Sanitizer (989116) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583745)

> Seriously, why would the police care if the police are
> doing nothing wrong?

Guilty conscience.

> Which brings me to a question: How is "stop and
> frisk" not a violation of rights? It seems to be
> CLEARLY a violation of the 4th and perhaps even
> the 5th.

I don't get it, either. It's so obvious a violation of due process and flagrant bigotry that it should never have been proposed. Yet, they're doing it; they've been doing it since at least 2004; they're amassing a database containing information on those people who have been subject to stop-and-frisk; they're using the database for racial profiling and harassment (some people have been stalked by the police, stopped and frisked dozens of times); and nobody is stopping them.

The NY ACLU is only suing them over the database. Not the practice.

The law spells out very specific circumstances for a stop and pat-down.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop [wikipedia.org]

The police are ignoring the law.

This is the sort of thing that East coasters ridicule Arizona for, but it's going on right here.

A true WTF.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (5, Insightful)

strikethree (811449) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583869)

As my reply to an Anonymous Coward points out: They are breeding terrorists with these actions. I do not live in NYC and *I* feel violated. I can only imagine how the people being subjected to this shit feel.

Violating a person's "right" to not be molested for no reason by "authorities" WILL create a violent response. I guess random bombings and murders are better than random thefts and murders. One is terrorism, the other is crime. Not much of a difference from my point of view except that one has at least some sort of justification. :(

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (5, Insightful)

deanklear (2529024) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583789)

The police care because recording them violates their deeply held opinion that they have the right to do whatever they want without any threat of punishment. That attitude permeates government from the top all the way down, and unfortunately has the predictable effect of corrupting nearly every person who gets the slightest bit of state-backed power.

Now that budgets are being slashed, the fascist tendency towards punishment and extortion through fines for small offenses has only become more engrained in our culture. How are they going to pay for their tanks and UAVs without making every deviation from total conformity illegal and expensive?

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40584033)

Exactly, it it comes down to word v word the judge will always take the police side.

the police dont want to be filmed as it can prove them to be liars when they beat innocent people and then say it was in self defence.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583845)

The cops who posted this need to be identified and fired, IMMEDIATELY.

And if there are any of you in the US who still think the majority of the cops are on the side of the good guys, you should think again. If this doesn't clearly show who's side they are on (their own and their political owners), then nothing does.

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (1)

strikethree (811449) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583899)

Nobody is going to respect an Anonymous Coward saying what you are saying. Create an account and log in. Put _something_ behind your words. Nobody is going to execute you for it... yet. ;)

Re:Obviously, the police are doing something wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583877)

Read this book: The Condemnation of Blackness
http://www.amazon.com/Condemnation-Blackness-Khalil-Gibran-Muhammad/dp/0674035976

I see how it is. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583583)

Where have I heard this before:
"If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to be afraid of."

So how are they wanted? (1)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583651)

Dead or alive?

Re:So how are they wanted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583713)

First one, and then the other.

Until we start arresting cops and their masters (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583687)

Until we start arresting cops and the rich and powerful for their crimes, they are going to continue to trample on the rights and liberties of everyone else.

We need to become a nation of laws, not men-- which we most certainly are not now.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583695)

So?

What's Their Motive? (-1, Flamebait)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583709)

The cynic in me wonders if this couple is just trolling for an arrest for a big payout in a civil rights lawsuit. Film cops stopping and frisking, get arrested, sue, profit! That would not really be a sure thing, though, so maybe that's not it.

Re:What's Their Motive? (5, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584077)

The cynic in me wonders if this couple is just trolling for an arrest for a big payout in a civil rights lawsuit.

As long as that is a valid tactic, that's a valid action. If you are so likely to get arrested for doing something that is not illegal that you stand a good chance of being able to do it, and it is so illegal that you stand a good chance of getting paid, then actually doing it is an act highly useful to society.

The people who got filmed getting frisked (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583737)

Should file suit against the filmers for violating their civil rights.

What is the point? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583759)

Since the courts have been throwing out any evidence gathered from "stop-and-frisk" as being illegally acquired, just what is the point of this heavily defended policy anyway? Other than pure harassment. Shouldn't the police be trying to build relationships with local communities rather than alienating them? Oh sorry, that is so 70's thinking.

The KGB will be with you .... always (2)

gestalt_n_pepper (991155) | more than 2 years ago | (#40583815)

Except now they're called "NYPD." This is how my grandfather ended up in a Siberian gulag.

Stop and get Frisky (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583887)

I would definitely stop and frisk her, and get a little frisky too. She looks like a minx. Then maybe give her the business end of my night stick IYKWIM AITYD.

What's the saying? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40583989)

Isn't the saying that law enforcement likes to use, when spying on citizens... something like "If you've got nothing to hide, then you have nothing to worry about?"

Looks like the police are hiding something to me. Perhaps the police should start leading by example instead of being corrupt fuckers?

More proof.... (5, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584001)

That police are simply thugs. If they are doing no wrong, then they should welcome public oversight like this.

Any cop that is against being recorded is a dirty cop that needs to be removed and put in jail.

If I ran the country (5, Insightful)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584013)

If it were up to me, police would *always* be recorded while on-duty. Cameras, or at least microphones, in the car and on the person, both recording to a tamper-resistant medium and broadcasting online (with a time delay).

Why? Because the police are supposed to work for the government, and the government is supposed to work for the people. The people have a *right* to know what they are doing, to ensure that they are actually working properly.

And if the police are doing their jobs properly, it will actually help them. They'll have video evidence of any crime they witness. That would be more than a little helpful.

Of course, if it were up to me, we'd have nuked North Korea flat decades ago, so maybe it's good that I'm not actually running the country. But I still think my "record the police" idea is a good one.

Listen i distrust cops i got my reasons (0)

Stan92057 (737634) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584059)

Listen i distrust cops i got my reasons and kudos to the couple for the filming BUT and a big but. They should go to jail for publishing the cops home addresses. They have innocent children,wife,mothers that live there and its criminal to put them through the bullshit they will have to put up with.

What's good for the goose... (5, Insightful)

OldSport (2677879) | more than 2 years ago | (#40584115)

...is good for the gander. Law enforcement is always telling the citizenry that they have nothing to fear if they have nothing to hide.
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