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Microsoft: Windows 8 To RTM In August

samzenpus posted about 2 years ago | from the here-it-comes dept.

Microsoft 343

nk497 writes "Microsoft has confirmed Windows 8 will RTM the first week of August, with general availability in late October. Steve Ballmer suggested Microsoft expected Surface to sell "millions" of the 375m Windows 8 PCs expected to sell in the next year — spending much of the keynote talking about partners' devices. From the article: 'Tami Reller, chief financial officer and chief marketing officer of the Windows and Windows Live division, confirmed the release date at Microsoft's Worldwide Partner Conference in Toronto today, as she showed off a host of Windows 8 devices created by the software giant's manufacturing partners.'"

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343 comments

"showed off a host of Windows 8 devices" (5, Insightful)

Trashcan Romeo (2675341) | about 2 years ago | (#40592477)

Were journalists allowed to touch any of them this time?

Re:"showed off a host of Windows 8 devices" (5, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40592561)

I hear one of them was given a Surface tablet to use in place of his newspaper. The fly never saw it coming.

Is this only for tablets (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592489)

Question: is there any reason for PC users to consider this OS, or is it only for tablets?

Re:Is this only for tablets (5, Insightful)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#40592513)

Some may say that this is a re-incarnation of Microsoft Me or Microsoft Vista, no, it is much worse than that, this is a re-incarnation of Microsoft Bob.

It does not matter which platform you want to put this OS on, it will suck on all of them.

Re:Is this only for tablets (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592589)

Me and Vista were two very different problems. The former is what happens when you half-heartedly add a few features to a dying OS; the latter is what happens when you try to do quite a bit of under-the-hood engineering and modernisation, give up, start again, and then realise you've sold nothing new for half a decade so put out what you have before you're ready.

8 is what happens when you imagine that Program Manager wasn't sufficiently unsuitable for a modern high-res PC, and instead decide that you're working in CGA in an accessibility mode for people with reduced vision and dexterity.

This is like Acorn, Amiga, etc. in the late '90s - instead of following their strengths in the desktop world, they suddenly rush to the new consumer device - then it was the Set Top Box / Multimedia Thing / etc. A few minutes later, they're all but dead.

Hm, could MS really die out soon on the desktop?

Re:Is this only for tablets (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592729)

If they do, they're gonna take the desktop down with them.

Re:Is this only for tablets (2)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592787)

The risk is there. Most applications are going HTML+JS on the client side, which makes end user platform largely irrelevant. I think they've hedged with Windows Azure - even if Apple eat their lunch in the desktop / notebook market, icloud, etc all runs on azure anyway.

Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (5, Interesting)

Aqualung812 (959532) | about 2 years ago | (#40592625)

Comparing Win8 to ME or Vista is unfair to Win8.

The really sad part about Win8 is Metro. There is a LOT to like about the underlying OS (password unmask, much better taskmanager, and many other small improvements), and I have no reason to think that the OS itself will be unstable like ME or Vista.

If Microsoft would fix Metro on the desktop (It may be fine for tablets and phones), Win8 would be something I would like. However, as it currently stands, I won't "upgrade" until I have a good, stable way to disable Metro and use the other features of the OS.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592685)

The loss of aero kind of sucks too. I liked the drop shadows on windows at least it visually separated windows from each other when stacked. Now they kinda look like windows 3.1 era white windows and they are jumbled up.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (5, Insightful)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | about 2 years ago | (#40593225)

It seems like Microsoft's plan for Windows is to get rid of windows.

Only the GUI is bad? Well thats ok then (4, Funny)

Viol8 (599362) | about 2 years ago | (#40592709)

I mean who uses the GUI to do much work in Windows anyway? Pfffft , cmd.exe is all I need!

Re:Only the GUI is bad? Well thats ok then (2)

Aqualung812 (959532) | about 2 years ago | (#40592955)

My point is that comparing a poorly designed UI to an unstable OS isn't a comparison at all.

I can use a shitty UI if I have to, but a great UI on an unstable OS is worthless to me.

Re:Only the GUI is bad? Well thats ok then (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592959)

command.com

now get off of my segment:offset addressed lawn.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (5, Insightful)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592713)

The only way to "fix" metro is to kill it with fire. And then you have Windows 7 with a new task manager and IE10. Whoopie fucking doo.

I'm against the grain here, and I'll actually say that Vista was a good operating system. It was hobbled by lack of driver support and people trying to run it on inadequate hardware at the time, but if you run it on anything newer than say 2004 vintage with a couple of gigs of RAM, it is FINE.

I had zero stability problems. Windows 7 is essentially vista with UAC toned down a bit, a fancy UI slapped on top and some tweaks to the scheduler.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

aztracker1 (702135) | about 2 years ago | (#40592935)

Well, a lot of the Vista issues were addressed in SP1, prior to that, there were a lot of commonly occurring issues. I like Win7's UI changes a lot... it's probably my fav. UI at this point... If nothing else, I can see Win8 bringing a rebirth of the explorer shell replacements like LiteStep in the Win9x/2000 days. Which might be nice, I remember using a customized litestep theme as my main desktop shell until win7 came out. I wouldn't mind something fairly modifyable as a desktop... though win7's is hands down my current fav, there's always new ways... I just don't see myself liking metro on multiple monitors.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (4, Interesting)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40593073)

Yeah don't get me wrong, I like Win7 a lot better than vista. But when comparing XP to Vista, Vista got a pretty fucking bad wrap. It made important steps in hardware abstraction, user space drivers, better security model, etc. Without vista before it, Windows 7 would have faced all the same compatibility and driver issues by virtue of being first to introduce them.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (4, Informative)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40592745)

Windows 8 is fucking NICE kernel wise. I am using on a crappy el cheapo laptop with only 2 gigs of ram and a dual 1.6 ghz AMD turon with integrated graphics circa 2007. It boots in 25 seconds!

It is slip, Windows update runs circles around my 3 ghz phenom II desktop with 8 gigs of ram running Windows 7. Even with the buggy bios it sleeps and resumes in half the time my Asus desktop does with Windows 7.

It is even liter than XP on that old laptop. WindowsTOGO makes it possible to use a Windows bootcd like Linux users have done for a decade. Profiles are synched with all your desktop settings on the go and even has some Active Directory features without AD such as having policies and profiles complete with apps uploaded to your mobile device/laptop when you log in with your corporate email address as your login.

If Windows 7 was not a good enough reason for corporations to leave XP, Windows 8 certainly is appealing as sales and mobile people are a pain in the ass to support and lockdown when they are never on the network. ... If it were not for METRO I would predict corps skipping Win 7 and going right for Windows 8. But the gui is very very important for a workstation user as it is what the user interacts with all day. Sigh

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (5, Insightful)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592853)

Problem is - old hardware is old, and even hardware 5 years old runs Windows 7 well enough. The big cost to any company toying with the idea of Windows 7 will be user re-training, support staff re-training, and compatibility testing all their apps. Exactly the same reasons Windows 7 has found resistance, minus the metro clusterfuck.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592865)

Uh...

The big cost to any company toying with the idea of Windows 8 will be user re-training

I mean...

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40592961)

The flipside is these corporate users would all love to still be running DOS 5 and Windows 3.11 today in 2012 with their Novel Netware scripts at startup if they could get away with it.

The new beancounter mentality is fairly new as they try to get ahead by staying behind their competiton rather than spending to get ahead with better staff and infrastructure, rather than staying cheap and inferior to gain a foothold. That is a new thing in this day and age.

They will never upgrade unless by force which is what it is coming too presently with newer hardware not supporting XP like SSDs, retina 200 dpi, usb 3, etc. MS is cutting support too so I expect the rest of this year and next year to see a rapid decline of legacy systems. Windows 8 if it did not have METRO would help make argument to stay ahead as more and more employees work from home as its mobile features are fucking nice and give a good return on investment.

Of course some think it is all costs and no benefit and that an employee can be just as productive with DOS today.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (2)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40593125)

The danger to microsoft is that if all their business customer's software needs to be re-engineered to work properly, the sensible people will be porting it all to HTML/javascript and becoming client agnostic. And buying much cheaper, much more portable tablets/ultra portable notebooks. Possibly from apple, possible from google. But it doesn't really matter. And microsoft is no longer required.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 2 years ago | (#40593011)

Boots and is then fully usable in 25 seconds? Windows 7 boots to the desktop sharply enough for me, but woe betide me if I make the mistake of thinking that I can then do anything with it.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40593191)

Yes it is usable in 25 seconds on that old POS that barely runs. MS really did make it very trimmed down as the kernel will run on phones. The hard drive spins for about 3 to 4 seconds while I log in and then it is all done and ready to go.

  My Windows 7 desktop does have more software on it I admit, but I use MSConfig to just load Avast AV, mouse software, ATi script (not the cataylst) for accelerated media and thats it. My desktop is usable after about 50 seconds.

For a comparison I had Windows 7 on that el cheapo laptop before and it became usable after 1.20 minutes when I timed it before. I did have the same AV software that is not present on Win 8 though.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40593111)

*only" 2GB of ram and *only* 2x 1.6ghz cores?
Nothing should be remotely slow on such hardware, that MS are clearing up some of their bloat is not a good thing, it should never have been otherwise.

An Amiga 3000, 25mhz and with 4mb ram circa 1990 boots in
WindowsTOGO makes it possible to use a Windows bootcd like Linux users have done for a decade.

This is available for earlier versions of windows, search for bartpe...

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40593251)

Windows to go is more functional than bartpe which is just to run scripts. It is not that it is not slow. It is just fast and feels faster than my phenom II with 8 gigs of ram with win 7. Pretty impressive if you ask and great it gets better. This topic is if it were not for Metro it would rock. I happen to agree with this and it is nice iOS and Andriod helped make Windows what it should have been many years ago.

I look at this as hope with Windows 9. These improvements help battery life too and your 25 mhz system did not do the things a modern OS does with networking at bootup, usermode drivers that wont take down the system, security protection with ASLR,dep, and other things, as well as run other services at bootup taht are event based etc. There is no comparison.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

Windowser (191974) | about 2 years ago | (#40593185)

WindowsTOGO makes it possible to use a Windows bootcd like Linux users have done for a decade.

Glad to see MS is finally catching up !

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

bazorg (911295) | about 2 years ago | (#40592965)

huh? in what way was Vista unstable?

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (1)

Aqualung812 (959532) | about 2 years ago | (#40593067)

Shitty driver support. This is a 50/50 split between the vendors being lazy and Microsoft being unpredictable.

MS made some HUGE changes between not only betas, but release candidates on Vista. Many OEMs and 3rd-party vendors decided to wait until it shipped (or until first service pack) until they updated their drivers. Then, some of them decided "Screw it, you can buy our new product with Vista drivers, but we're not touching the old stuff". *I'm looking at you, Logitech.*

If you had a computer that had proper Vista drivers, then everything was completely stable. However, Vista had the worst driver support that I've ever seen because of the drastic driver model change.

So, was the OS itself unstable? No. However, Microsoft made it hard on the people that actually wrote the drivers, so as far as the end user was concerned, it sucked.

Re:Only thing bad about Win8 is Metro (0)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#40593049)

Comparing Win8 to ME or Vista is unfair to Win8.

Hence my referencing Microsoft Bob. Much like Metro, Bob is an unnecessary UI that is purposely designed to be idiot friendly.

Hopefully this will not be the end of civilization.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0560706/ [imdb.com]

Re:Is this only for tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592723)

You have that right I tried it for a couple of days I hated the metro tiles page. I will never install it again.

Re:Is this only for tablets (5, Funny)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 2 years ago | (#40592827)

It's Microsoft's attempt to build a new desktop OS that works well and that people like, but to improve usability in the face of their massive market losses to Apple which are mostly predicated on usability.

It's also an attempt to shortcut their way into the mobile space by adding a mobile UI to their existing product. Their mobile OS is failed on phones, but there's no big competitor to Apple in the tablet space right now, and MSFT hopes they can be that.

Basically, MSFT is years behind in just about every product line they have, but are still following their tried-and-true, packaging up other peoples' ideas with Windows logos, and selling them as innovation.

Re:Is this only for tablets (1)

Eponymous Coward (6097) | about 2 years ago | (#40593207)

The server version looks cool. You can boot it to a command line. The full GUI is a loadable option.

Windows 8 is faster than Windows 7 in every way. If I could get it without the Metro UI or only the Metro UI, I would likely buy it. If the final version is the same as the consumer preview, I'm not interested at all.

Re:Is this only for tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592591)

Re:Is this only for tablets (0, Flamebait)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40592753)

My favorite new security hole is "Instead of typing a password, users can create a four-digit PIN for easy logon to the computer." That and "picture password".

Basically every boot is a hibernate, which has some interesting security implications if you get access to a drive (via removal, or via booting linux/etc off a USB/optical) containing a hibernated image. I'm guessing this is the cover story for UEFI because if you have access to a hibernated image you have the keys to the kingdom so boot control is pretty important.

Icky UEFI to permanently lock linux or anything else out of running on "windows" commodity hardware. I'm sure you'll be able to special order dells with linux compatible bios at an additional cost of only twice the cost of a MS server license.

Integrating restore into the OS for the inevitable post-p0wn restoration.

Other than that, a bunch of UI mistakes, copying some linux-y features like finally being able natively to mount isos and having something like LVM.

Its hard to call it a "new" OS. Shuffle up the UI, Borg in a bunch of previously 3rd party stuff, copy some linux features, band aid on a broken leg security improvements, eh. I'm still using XP for my gaming partition and I'll probably keep on doing so until I find a reason I have to upgrade. Just recently upgraded to SP3 or whatever its called to get GTA4 to work.

Re:Is this only for tablets (1)

Bert64 (520050) | about 2 years ago | (#40593157)

My favorite new security hole is "Instead of typing a password, users can create a four-digit PIN for easy logon to the computer." That and "picture password".

Or you could just set a 4 digit numerical password, and hey presto you have a 4 digit pin for logging in.

I wonder how these features interact with the existing windows ntlm auth and hashing systems etc...

Re:Is this only for tablets (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592843)

I see your snarky link and raise you the fact that anybody can throw together a list of features that mean little to the overall fact of whether people will see the OS as an improvement or not. See XP to Vista. Sure Vista offered a lot of "improvements". It still was reviled and never broke 18 percent market share as far as I can recall. Maybe give some more detail next time of how you've actually used Windows 8 and how it actually improves your personal workflow.

Re:Is this only for tablets (0)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592683)

No. Get Windows 7 if you haven't already (and are bound to Windows for whatever reason). If you don't need Windows in particular, there are far better alternatives. Only people who haven't used Windows 8 think the Linux desktop is unfriendly.

Re:Is this only for tablets (1)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 2 years ago | (#40593169)

the Linux desktop

Yes, the Linux developer has really sorted that out.

You're probably new here, but there are quite a few desktops out there, which is one of the main problems with getting Cathy Corporate to switch.

Re:Is this only for tablets (1)

Baloroth (2370816) | about 2 years ago | (#40593247)

No. Get Windows 7 if you haven't already (and are bound to Windows for whatever reason). If you don't need Windows in particular, there are far better alternatives. Only people who haven't used Windows 8 think the Linux desktop is unfriendly.

The Linux desktop isn't unfriendly, per se. The problem is it is difficult to use just the desktop with Linux, because the OS was designed from the ground up to be used from the command line, and tacking on a GUI doesn't really change that. That's really the reason Linux never had its year on the desktop, and probably never will: Linux never was intended to be a desktop OS. Linux is unfriendly to its own desktop (and there isn't anything wrong with that, necessarily, it makes Linux a lot more powerful in many ways, just not for casual users). Windows always was a desktop OS, a fact MS seems to have forgotten. Also, just because Metro is worse wouldn't make the Linux desktop any more friendly.

Re:Is this only for tablets (1)

msauve (701917) | about 2 years ago | (#40592877)

"is there any reason for PC users to consider this OS"

Didn't you see the headline? Windows 8 is going to read the manual for you! No longer will people be able to tell you "RTFM!," because it's already been done for you.

Re:Is this only for tablets (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#40593081)

Well I have a Tablet/PC hybrid. So I am kinda excited about it (I have been using the customer preview, and it makes using my PC like a tablet more useful then windows 7 or Linux does.). But for Developers who are Making Windows Apps, they should get up to snuff on Meto Applications,
New PCs will have more tablet features...

However do you need to upgrade, your existing PC.. No but do you need to upgrade your XP system to Vista or 7... No...

So you are looking for a reason to not upgrade, you have plenty... But there are new Metro Apps that most likely will be developed, in time, they may become the main type of program you use. (much like how we Had DOS apps, then they slowly became Windows app)

However your next PC may have a touch screen, then you may want windows 8

Update: Release Delayed (5, Funny)

erdos-bacon sandwich (2676113) | about 2 years ago | (#40592497)

Microsoft has announced that the release date will be pushed out to Friday, December 21, 2012

Re:Update: Release Delayed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592771)

Well they aren't going to read the manual until august. That may account for why no one in the QA dept of MS has noticed how terrible the new start menu is yet. I'd imagine delays are inevitable to give them time to fix that rubbish.....

Best OS ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592499)

It will be wonderful.......

Re:Best OS ever (1)

aglider (2435074) | about 2 years ago | (#40592649)

... a wonderful bag a bugs!

Still delusional (0, Flamebait)

i kan reed (749298) | about 2 years ago | (#40592511)

Trying to sell a downgrade as the best thing ever is probably not good business sense.

Re:Still delusional (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592597)

works fine for Apple.

Re:Still delusional (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592665)

Apple bashing is getting so lame. If it were an Apple story, feel free to point out a bad Apple decision, but these childish anti-Apple statements on articles not about Apple are just stupid and annoying.

Re:Still delusional (0)

Jeng (926980) | about 2 years ago | (#40592807)

Not an Apple fan, but got a citation for that snark?

What was the point of testing? (4, Insightful)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 2 years ago | (#40592567)

1. Windows 8 was well tested by the masses. And I consistently saw the same complaints from most news shops and users.
2. Microsoft is still releasing Windows 8 on time rather than listening to any of the criticism levied during testing.
3. They have slashed the price really low. I do think they heard the criticism and know that consumers don't want Windows 8, but maybe if it is really cheap, people will buy it anyway.

Here's the problem. Why should I pay money to make my OS worse? Microsoft should listen to the criticism from testing and improve their product and then sell it for full price.

Re:What was the point of testing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592861)

Here's the problem. Why should I pay money to make my OS worse? Microsoft should listen to the criticism from testing and improve their product and then sell it for full price.

It's only your problem, not theirs. When a company has a monopoly and 95% of PC sold worldwide come with that software, even if the whole world doesn't like W8, people will have it and pay for it nonetheless.

Re:What was the point of testing? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 2 years ago | (#40592981)

Microsoft is down to 85% OS market share.

http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=10 [netmarketshare.com]

Remember when IE completely owned the browser market and Netscape died? Somehow they completely lost that market. Windows won't lose all their market share overnight, but all the Fortune 500 companies I've worked for have started integrating Apple more and more over the years. If Microsoft keeps making missteps, and alienating the enterprise market with Metro on the desktop, then that share can continue to drop.

OEMs sold XP downgrades when Vista came out to avoid Vista. Microsoft counted those as Vista licenses and called Vista a success, but deep down I think everyone knows better. I'm not sure people will be rushing out to buy Windows 8, and enterprise shops likely won't buy Windows 8 licenses.

Sitting right next to me at work is perhaps the biggest Microsoft fanboi I've ever met, and he just swapped out his Windows desktop for a Macbook Pro.

Re:What was the point of testing? (2)

Anpheus (908711) | about 2 years ago | (#40592951)

How did it make your OS worse? What did it take away other than your precious and empirically poor performing start menu? How will it change your workflow so drastically that you would call it a downgrade despite all the additional features?

Re:What was the point of testing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40593093)

As bad as the Start menu is Metro is even worse. You can argue how Metro has been your childhood dream come true if you want but I have actually used it and it is an abomination.

Re:What was the point of testing? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40593097)

How did it make your OS worse? What did it take away other than your precious and empirically poor performing start menu?

The XP Start Menu worked pretty well but had a few limitations. The Window 7 Start Menu was a disaster zone. Microsoft then said 'our empirical testing says people don't use the Start Menu in Windows 7, so instead of making it not suck we're going to remove it and replace it with something that SUCKS MUCH WORSE'.

Windows 8 is a joke. No-one will voluntarily choose to install it on their PC unless they're one of the last Microsoft fanboys. Companies will laugh at it and stay on Windows 7.

Re:What was the point of testing? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 2 years ago | (#40593127)

I have a shit-ton of games installed on my PC (the main reason I keep Windows around and don't just use Linux full time) as well as an ass-load of apps. The Start Menu is organized in folders and I can quickly get to what I want to launch. The classic XP exploding Start Menu was actually better than the Vista/7 Start Menu for browsing. The new menu is supposed to encourage you to search, but the search is slow. With Metro I just have a huge mess of tiles.

The best way to launch apps is with Alt-F2 in Linux or Win+R in Windows and then just type what I want, but most casual users aren't familiar that functionality even exists.

Windows 8 literally wastes my time by making me jump through hoops. My time is valuable. My software is supposed to enable me to work, not get in my way.

When I press the Windows button in Windows 8, I immediately get dragged back kicking and screaming to the Metro interface.
Pasting URLs into the run dialog brings up the Metro IE browser.
The new explorer also makes me jump through extra hoops to accomplish the same tasks.

The concept of having an app store and unified app updates in one place is nice, but those apps are primarily mobile games at the moment. It doesn't provide me any benefit on my desktop.

What new feature in Windows 8 offsets wasting my time? Being able to store my account on Skydrive? I already use Google Drive for document storage in the cloud. Native USB 3.0 support is great in theory, but I don't have any USB 3.0 devices yet.

Re:What was the point of testing? (1)

Verunks (1000826) | about 2 years ago | (#40593055)

it's a bug/hardware compatibility testing, that's what pretty much all the free betas are for

Re:What was the point of testing? (1)

Enderandrew (866215) | about 2 years ago | (#40593155)

It really was just compatibility testing. They didn't have an open bug tracker to submit bugs to. Microsoft doesn't really want customer feedback.

Re:What was the point of testing? (1)

PhrostyMcByte (589271) | about 2 years ago | (#40593195)

Here's the problem. Why should I pay money to make my OS worse?

I bumped my head the day the Windows 8 RC was released, and installed it on my non-touchscreen work laptop. I've been using it for development every day since. To be clear -- I used the developer beta briefly and really disliked the experience, but hey, this is the future, might as well jump on the train early and figure it out, if only to head off future questions that'll be bubbled up to IT.

Overall my experience has still been very close to that of Windows 7. Once you're on the desktop, the start screen stays out of your way until you ask for it and apps work as usual. It's not nearly what screenshots make it out to be. The tablet apps look like they'll be great on a tablet, but they suck for desktop use. It's easy to avoid them. The new start screen, however, is growing on me.

I put several live tiles there so I can hit winkey and get a quick glance at everything. Once I'm done scanning them I hit winkey again to go back to desktop. It's really very useful, and completely fluid without ever touching the mouse. You can put icons for desktop apps on the start screen as well, and I occasionally use it to launch them. For the bulk of it, though, the "winkey + typing" trick still works to launch apps just like it does in Windows 7.

As far as development goes, Windows 8 does have some compelling new APIs. WinRT has asynchronous APIs for many things that would have blocked in Windows 7. This can be an instant user experience win for any app that can use them. There's also Registered I/O, which is a fully asynchronous and zero-copy sockets API designed for applications needing low latency and super high performance. Server applications with many concurrent connections and perhaps even games will benefit from this.

Is it worth the $40 upgrade cost? Sure, I'll tell people I know to grab it. Especially since that will preserve Media Center capabilities.

RTM (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592577)

Microsoft has confirmed Windows 8 will RTM the first week of August

So we do not have to read the manual ourselves? That's most cool.

August (1, Offtopic)

David89 (2022710) | about 2 years ago | (#40592585)

The beginning. The year of the Linux desktop. Not

Re:August (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592697)

I see what you did there. You put "not" at the end of your statement as a way of negating the preceeding text. That is clever! Perhaps it's the year of being clever on Slashdot!!

Let me summarize the discussion for you (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592595)

1000+ posts on how it sucks, how it's a failure.

Perhaps a few dozen saying otherwise.

10,000 posts attacking the "shills"

Oh, and throw in a few spam comments for good measure, and maybe a few libertarian anarchists proclaiming how this wouldn't happen if we had a free market.

Plus a few dozen A/Cs doing sarcastic summations (4, Funny)

Viol8 (599362) | about 2 years ago | (#40592657)

... of the discussion. You're as predictable as everyone else.

Better yet (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592605)

Released to WTF sounds more appropriate.

And, showing nothing ever changes on /. (4, Interesting)

kiwimate (458274) | about 2 years ago | (#40592615)

Four stories after a submission asking if grammar matters any more, we find this gem of a sentence in the summary:

Steve Ballmer suggested Microsoft expected Surface to sell "millions" of the 375m Windows 8 PCs expected to sell in the next year â" spending much of the keynote talking about partners' devices.

Two months? (1)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40592627)

Windows 8 will RTM the first week of August, with general availability in late October.

Why does it take two months? I'm assuming they mean "release to manufacturing" not something like "register trademark" or "remember the milk" (a shopping list app, maybe it'll be released on winderz 8 then, I donno)

Do they mean general availability as in boxes printed in China on shelves in the US which means they're cheaping out on the shipping which at least makes sense, or general availability as in manufacturers gold copy chock full of bloatware is ready to be shoveled out / I mean imaged onto new device hard/flash drives, in which case 2 months is pretty pitiful, or ready for download from .torrent sites in October (oh wait, I think they'll do better than that)

Torrenting? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592905)

You must be a pirate then..

Seriously, a number of ISP's think that any DPI that shows a torrent and bingo, you are pirating 'stuff'.
So if you legally torrent Windows 8 and get dicsonnected from the internet for your troubles.

RTM (2)

yoyoq (1056216) | about 2 years ago | (#40592631)

finally someone will Read The Manual

What has happened to my beloved English? (0, Offtopic)

aglider (2435074) | about 2 years ago | (#40592635)

Since when "RTM" has become a verb?
Was it that difficult to write " Windows 8 will be Ready To Market the first week of August"? Or even "Windows 8 will be RTM the first week of August"?
But, yeah! "To RTM" sounds much more ... techie!

Please, mod this down to "-1: Offtopic" and not "-1 Off topic".

Re:What has happened to my beloved English? (2)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40592783)

Since when "RTM" has become a verb?
Was it that difficult to write " Windows 8 will be Ready To Market the first week of August"?

Release to market... didn't even think of that one. I assumed it meant release to manufacturing. A kind of crucial distinction.

Re:What has happened to my beloved English? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 2 years ago | (#40592803)

It became one a long time ago, Read The Manual, also stated as RTFM. Not sure why it will take 2 months for MS to Read The Manual though.

Re:What has happened to my beloved English? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592813)

Nowadays everything can be a verb. Google it, if you don't believe me.

Re:What has happened to my beloved English? (1)

ifrag (984323) | about 2 years ago | (#40592817)

Hmm... I always thought RTM = Release to manufacturing. Or minimally that the 'R' is release, even if the 'M' is market.

Re:What has happened to my beloved English? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40593009)

When in doubt, wikipedia it out. Turns out both "Release to Manufacturer" so and "Release to Marketing" so are both correct.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#RTM

gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (0)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592643)

... since 1996...

but the unix desktop has been viable for quite some time now. Went mac, not going back. OS X gives me what i want in a unix desktop, and I don't mind paying for it.

Windows 8 is a clusterfuck. Yes, i've run it. The UI has no value, it doesn't work on the desktop without touch, and it hasn't set the world on fire in the mobile phone space either. I suspect Microsoft "bet the farm" on this shit, and it's all going to end in tears.

Re:gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592739)

I suspect if Apple could find a way to ship a sub 600 dollar MacBook they'd own the traditional PC market inside of 2 years. Entry level products and pricing in that area is the biggest thing holding them back. Of course, they'd have to build less expensively and accept a lower absolute margin but they'd kill MS in the consumer sector.

Re:gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (1)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40592805)

I suspect if Apple could find a way to ship a sub 600 dollar MacBook

Called the ipad with a bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth mouse? Its not that farfetched of a lifestyle. I use my (old?) ipad-1 with a bluetooth keyboard and a ssh app all the time at home.

Re:gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592919)

Called the ipad with a bluetooth keyboard and bluetooth mouse?

Called a $600 kludge with the performance of a $200 netbook, which won't run any of your existing software?

Re:gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (3, Insightful)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592995)

I agree, but they don't do cheap. Give it a couple of years though and the ipad will take care of that. No, the tablet won't evolve itself so much, more that the apps that normal people actually want to use will. Grandma and Grandpa want to do their banking, shopping, organise their photos / videos, talk to their kids and read things on the internet. A tablet will do all that and more.

People/apps just haven't caught up yet - the vast majority of end users who want a cheap laptop would actually be better served by a locked-down (as in, secure) tablet, they just don't know it yet.

Sure, there's a niche of tech savvy users who want more for less money, but that market segment isn't statistically significant, imho.

Re:gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (1)

Haawkeye (2680377) | about 2 years ago | (#40592785)

Well I sure didn't like it. What the hell were they thinking with that interface?

Re:gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (1)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40592911)

I like it despite the interface, for the power of things like automator, working 3d support, working audio out of the box, a touchpad that is actually awesome, etc.

The UI is my least favorite part of OS X, but its still better than the mish-mash of buggy desktop apps you get with KDE or Gnome (which I still frequently check out).

Re:gave up waiting for year of the linux desktop (1)

oakgrove (845019) | about 2 years ago | (#40593249)

The quality of Apple's touchpads have done more to sell me on their stuff than anything else. The discrete models work excellently on Android as well enabling all the multi-touch goodness and the smoothness stomps anything else even the touchpad on my brother's Transformer Prime.

Original anouncement (from Microsoft, not PCPPro!) (3, Informative)

dsinc (319470) | about 2 years ago | (#40592659)

Re:Original anouncement (from Microsoft, not PCPPr (3, Funny)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 2 years ago | (#40592971)

Anyone else reading that as "Windows Millstones"? Just you, me, and all their "partners", I suspect.

Reason to upgrade? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592669)

If people can't seem to let go of XP, and Win 7 is still relatively new and quite stable, what reason is there to get Win 8? Mind, if I want a tablet, i'm probably going with Android or iOS not the 4th or 5th player to the game (after blackberry and web os and others).

What if no one wants it? (1)

kurt555gs (309278) | about 2 years ago | (#40592733)

I mean really. People get Windows on their PC's because the have no choice. In the tablet market they do. Why would anyone choose to be under Microsoft's oppressive thumb if they didn't have to be?

Re:What if no one wants it? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592829)

We'll end up with millions of people paying extra money on a new PC for the "Windows Downgrade To That Older Version That Actually Worked" option, like we did with Vista.

Re:What if no one wants it? (1)

vlm (69642) | about 2 years ago | (#40592835)

Why would anyone choose to be under Microsoft's oppressive thumb if they didn't have to be?

Hoping for corporate purchases of tablets? In other words we'll be stuck with them because the MS sales rep gives the CIO season sports tickets?

MSFT slipping into irrelevancy (2)

dsmey (193342) | about 2 years ago | (#40592921)

No one I know wants Windows 8. No one I know is even talking about it. I don't want Windows 8. I don't want Windows RT. I don't care about Microsoft products anymore. No one I know does. The last time I paid for an MS product was a promotional copy of Windows 7 Ultimate for $30 from one of their retail partners I worked at. I got a copy of Office 2007 from my University for $10. I will never purchase another MS product at full price. The only way they could get me to upgrade is by knocking 90% off the retail price.

I have decided to stop giving them my money, and I've switched almost entirely to Apple. I'd much rather use Mac or Linux, since nowadays there is more support than ever for comparable programs to run on those platforms.

MSFT will slowly fade into obscurity. Consumers, and even businesses, don't care about them anymore. The only people who will buy their products are big businesses, OEMs and college students who can already get the software for 90% off. And heck I don't even know any big businesses who have upgraded their systems from Windows XP. I know a small handful who have gone to Windows 7.

Re:MSFT slipping into irrelevancy (2)

smash (1351) | about 2 years ago | (#40593199)

They're even in danger of losing the business market. All the PHBs at work are in love with their iphones, ipads and asking for macs (MBAs) where I work.

Currently we're warning them that they are untested, all our back end software has only been tested on Windows, etc but eventually they'll green light the changes required to take care of that, rather than giving up their new shiny toys.

Microsoft has nothing anyone actually WANTS to use. People are using Windows because they have to, because it is entrenched, but this is gradually changing.

selling millions (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592741)

There's a small problem in the way of Microsoft having success with their tablet: Apple.

Just wait for Win8 SP1 (4, Funny)

Teresita (982888) | about 2 years ago | (#40592795)

Having dropped the Start Menu in the initial release, and cluttered the desktop with boring tiles, the first Windows 8 maintenance service pack will replace those tiles with a host of animated sprites. Click on the Pearly "Gates" to access the Cloud. Click on the lie detector sprite to verify your CD has been paid for using the Microsoft Trusted Customer Media Player. Click on the flying chair to register a bug report.

Metro is Ballmer's fault (3, Insightful)

realmolo (574068) | about 2 years ago | (#40592929)

Ballmer is a clueless prick, and he doesn't care about providing good products so much as he cares about playing political games with Microsoft employees. Plus, he's an egomaniac, who refuses to believe that MS ever does anything wrong.

Metro is the result of a few "powerful" interests at MS protecting their collective asses. It's easier for them to just shove Metro out there, and then start pointing fingers when everyone hates it, than it is to risk the wrath of idiot managers like Ballmer and his cronies.

Ballmer needs to be replaced if MS wants to be relevant in the future.

Could be the last even-numbered Windows release (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40592977)

If Win 8 bombs, word will get out that ppl should avoid even-numbered Windows releases.

So after Win 9 we'll have Win 11, 13, etc.

RTM (Really Tired of Microsoft) (3, Interesting)

na1led (1030470) | about 2 years ago | (#40593001)

I have been testing Windows 8 on my tablet PC for months now, and it's been a horrible experience. The interface is very cumbersome. It's difficult to find your programs and settings without a real Start Menu, and why have two different browsers (Metro and Desktop)? Also, any computer with an Intel Chipset of 865-965 is not fully supported (most PC's from a few years ago). Startup is fast, but some applications will not work properly unless you do a full restart. Oh, and the stylus keyboard only shows up when using the Metro Apps, you have to manually bring up the keyboad when using the desktop apps. And who thought of making it so hard to access the shutdown menu? What were they thinking?

But why? (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 2 years ago | (#40593137)

Around Windows 7, Microsoft said it would speed up the pace of releasing OSes (so you wouldn't get 10 years of silence like after XP), but I'm not sure it was a good decision. It seems the point of Windows 8 is just to release something for release sake. Maybe it would instead have made more sense to milk Windows 7 longer and hold next release until you have something cool to bring on the table. Instead of a clunky and ugly tablet interface with some Explorer tweaks. :)

Re:But why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40593241)

Around Windows 7, Microsoft said it would speed up the pace of releasing OSes (so you wouldn't get 10 years of silence like after XP), but I'm not sure it was a good decision.

No-one other than Microsoft wants a new version of Windows every two years, particularly when they throw in major UI changes each time. It's not even a good decision for Microsoft, because their stupid changes are pushing users away.

Microsoft to RTFM (1)

asylumx (881307) | about 2 years ago | (#40593227)

Ur... yeah, I misread that. The actual article is much less useful.
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