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"Magnetic Cells" Isolated For First Time

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the designer-babies-with-builtin-compasses dept.

Science 72

sciencehabit writes "For the first time, researchers have isolated magnetic cells in an animal. The cells--found in this case in rainbow trout--may help the fish respond to Earth's magnetic fields, allowing it to find its way home after spending 3 years at sea and traveling up to 300 kilometers away. The advance may help researchers get to the root of magnetic sensing in a variety of creatures, including birds."

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In Humans (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597527)

My brother-in-law, Big Ed, has a metal plate in his head from when he was kicked by a mule, and he can tell the difference between Miller and Miller Light without looking at the labels. Also he has a magnetic memory.

Re:In Humans (2, Insightful)

Cosgrach (1737088) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597631)

Actually, there is no difference between Miller and Miller Light - they both taste like piss. Or, at least what I would imagine piss to taste like.

Re:In Humans (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597665)

Actually, there is no difference between Miller and Miller Light - they both taste like piss. Or, at least what I would imagine piss to taste like.

So you're imagining yourself on your knees with a man peeing in your mouth, but how does it get carbonated?

Re:In Humans (0)

Cosgrach (1737088) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597779)

Yeah, right....

You must drink that shit.

Re:In Humans (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598279)

If you don't know the difference between piss and shit, you have no credibility as a food critic.
 

Re:In Humans (0)

TheInternetGuy (2006682) | more than 2 years ago | (#40600213)

Funny guy, I hold you personally responsible. Now get your ass over here and wipe the coffee of my monitor.

Re:In Humans (0)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | more than 2 years ago | (#40599523)

Well if the man is anything like me, he'd have IgA nephropathy and his piss would come out pre-carbonated.

Re:In Humans (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598687)

Like Frosty Piss?

Re:In Humans (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40599053)

Actually, there is no difference between Miller and Miller Light - they both taste like piss.

Well, that's proof that at least two of us immediately thought to say that they both taste like piss.

Re:In Humans (0)

Darinbob (1142669) | more than 2 years ago | (#40599239)

The difference in taste is like horse piss versus diabetic horse piss.

Re:In Humans (5, Funny)

PopeRatzo (965947) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598195)

My brother-in-law, Big Ed, has a metal plate in his head from when he was kicked by a mule

That's nothing. I've got an uncle with a wooden leg and an aunt with a cedar chest.

Re:In Humans (0)

newcastlejon (1483695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598355)

I've got an uncle with a wooden leg and an aunt with a cedar chest.

How does she smell?

Re:In Humans (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598739)

I've got an uncle with a wooden leg and an aunt with a cedar chest.

How does she smell?

She uses her nose

Re:In Humans (2, Funny)

socceroos (1374367) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598897)

woodn't you like to know.

Re:In Humans (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40599079)

My brother-in-law, Big Ed, has a metal plate in his head from when he was kicked by a mule

That's nothing. I've got an uncle with a wooden leg and an aunt with a cedar chest.

Was your uncles name Smith?

Re:In Humans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40601761)

How is his personality?

What about Cryptochrome? (2)

slew (2918) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597635)

I thought they figured this stuff out already for birds...
Some references here [nih.gov] and here [uiuc.edu] ...

Re:What about Cryptochrome? (4, Interesting)

ljw1004 (764174) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597953)

Your second link says "Despite decades of study, the physical basis of the avian magnetic sense remains elusive". It goes on to say that one hypothesis is magnetite, and another hypothesis is the generation of radical pairs inside cryptochrome, but this wasn't confirmed since no atomic-resolution structure of cryptochrome has yet been produced.

The article says that individual cells have been isolated which operate on magnetite. So it looks like it (1) is the first time there's been an actual confirmed result, and (2) it contradicts the cryptochrome hypothesis.

But I know nothing about this field. I'm merely reading the linked articles.

Re:What about Cryptochrome? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40599917)

I'm merely reading the linked articles.

ljw1004, we're not interested in a rotten behavior like this!

Re:What about Cryptochrome? (1)

kermidge (2221646) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598053)

Second reference was particularly interesting, if way over my head. If I understand correctly the authors explore various mechanisms to explain known behaviours without knowing in which cells such occurs; the current article says they've isolated the cells themselves, at least in one species of fish. Whether the trout mechanism is the same...

Magnetic monopoles! (1)

Bromskloss (750445) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597655)

I told you we would find them!

Re:Magnetic monopoles! (3, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597693)

I told you we would find them!

Usually crashing into the walls around the clinic I went for MRI scans.

The clinic had landscaped brush around the building to keep birds for hitting the walls and windows.

Re:Magnetic monopoles! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597755)

The bologna of memory nights is not present at this location to serve as a source of entertainment for an ignorant individual such as yourself. Please move along.

Re:Magnetic monopoles! (1)

gottabeme (590848) | more than 2 years ago | (#40621777)

Those poor, imprisoned birds! Can't those people hit their own walls and windows? Slave labor isn't ok just because they're avians!

IPS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597695)

Just imagine if you could use this as an indoor navigation system (IPS) on your smartphone. Compared to most other IPSes, which require thousands of WiFi or Bluetooth base stations to achieve comparable accuracy, this infrastructure-free approach sounds like it would be rather awesome.

Re:IPS (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598009)

Just imagine if you could use this as an indoor navigation system (IPS) on your smartphone. Compared to most other IPSes, which require thousands of WiFi or Bluetooth base stations to achieve comparable accuracy, this infrastructure-free approach sounds like it would be rather awesome.

Yeah, all you would need is a bunch of ground up trout noses.

What's not to like?

Re:IPS (1)

newcastlejon (1483695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598367)

Yeah, all you would need is a bunch of ground up trout noses.

Or the ability to check which story [slashdot.org] you're commenting on.

Humans Have The Hardware (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597771)

Humans have the ability to sense magnetic fields. Whether most people do or not is still in question.

Source: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2011/06/21/humans-have-a-magnetic-sensor-in-our-eyes-but-can-we-see-magnetic-fields/

Maybe we lost the ability to recognize it as we're surrounded by metals and different fields since birth and our brains couldn't figure out the input.

Re:Humans Have The Hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598831)

Of course humans can sense them, expose a human to a strong enough magnetic field and we'll have a seizure, the question though is how sensitive are we to the magnetism and how weak can it be before we can no longer sense it? And there's a very real difference between being able to and not developing the ability.

Get rich quick! (3, Funny)

cervesaebraciator (2352888) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597791)

I think I'll patent magnetic flies and lures to better attract trout. Of course, it doesn't work that way but the point is it can be marketed as though it does.

Re:Get rich quick! (1)

future assassin (639396) | more than 2 years ago | (#40599831)

I'll patent your patent because I use it with my iRod and iReel. My iRod and iReel are different than your Rod and Reel. Notice the "i" before Rod and Reel.

Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597801)

Hack the bird it is then...

Obligatory (1, Funny)

srussia (884021) | more than 2 years ago | (#40597903)

Dr. Evil: You know, I have one simple request. And that is to have sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads! Now evidently my cycloptic colleague informs me that that cannot be done. Ah, would you remind me what I pay you people for, honestly? Throw me a bone here! What do we have?

Number Two: Rainbow trout

Dr. Evil: [pause] Right.

Number Two: They're trout with magnetic sensors

Dr. Evil: Are they ill tempered?

Number Two: Absolutely.

Dr. Evil: Oh well, that's a start.

They're called (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597931)

Steelhead. Not rainbow trout. Same species, but the ocean-going variety are called steelhead.

Re:They're called (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598035)

Steelhead. Not rainbow trout. Same species, but the ocean-going variety are called steelhead.

Except that the steel should attract the magnetite and the fish would end up swimming in circles.

But on a more serious note, where does the trout get the magnetite from? Nibbling on rocks? Is there some giant deposit deep in the ocean (next to a derelict alien spaceship perhaps)? Can they filter it out from the water?

Re:They're called (1)

anagama (611277) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598721)

Except that the steel should attract the magnetite and the fish would end up swimming in circles.

Except the ocean just dissolves steel, unless it's stainless steel (and then the process is merely slower, not absent), and a lot of stainless steel doesn't attract magnets.

Re:They're called (1)

sFurbo (1361249) | more than 2 years ago | (#40599841)

Magnetite is an iron oxide. Iron comes a a premium for life (which is why we are so efficient at keeping what we have in our bodies), but the fish wouldn't get long without hemoglobin in their blood, so they must have a supply of iron.

Re:They're called (3, Interesting)

Solandri (704621) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598465)

It gets worse. The taxonomy of the salmonids was based on morphology in the centuries before DNA testing. When the DNA was actually tested, ichthyologists had a lot of egg on their faces. Not only did they find that the steelhead and rainbow trout were the same species, it turned out the rainbow trout - arguably the archetypical trout - is actually a salmon. It also turned out the Atlantic salmon (the most common species of "farmed salmon") was a trout, not a salmon.

The rainbow trout's genus [wikipedia.org] was quietly changed from Salmo to Oncorhynchus, placing it with the other salmons. Several trout (including the ubiquitous lake trout) turned out to be char, genus Salvelinus.

Re:They're called (1)

tomhath (637240) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598533)

I suppose next you're going to say that a Walleyed Pike is actually a perch. Oh wait...

Re:They're called (1)

undefinedreference (2677063) | more than 2 years ago | (#40599061)

You beat me to it! I was going to point out that "rainbow trout" don't migrate out to sea.

EM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40597961)

Probably explains the strange congregation of fish inder the high voltage power lines going over revelstoke lake every summer.

This is nothing. Big Iron had Magnetic Cores (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598039)

Back in the day, we had magnetic cores and we flipped them on and off to find F1SH.

And we liked it!

Also, as AC pointed out, Rainbow Trout are landlocked salmonids. Usually due to really large geological alterations like those in Nelson BC which created that giant Kootenay Lake you see in all the SciFi movies. Technically, the genomes are pretty much the same, though.

Re:This is nothing. Big Iron had Magnetic Cores (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40600803)

Not in the UK they are not - I have had many rainbow trout from the rivers in the Peak District and they are definately not landlocked

I could have told them that. (4, Insightful)

trout007 (975317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598055)

We trouts have an excellent sense of direction.

Re:I could have told them that. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598361)

Two things:

1. You're not a trout, you're just wearing a trout costume.
2. This is the women's restroom, not a river.

Re:I could have told them that. (4, Funny)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598625)

Yes, but how many of them have a license to gill?

Re:I could have told them that. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598871)

Few trout have a "license to gill", but all trout are "natural born gillers".

Re:I could have told them that. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40600767)

I'm so finished with puns.

Re:I could have told them that. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598761)

Seems like you've waited your whole slasdhot life just to make that comment.

Magnetism-Day (1)

davegravy (1019182) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598155)

Re:Magnetism-Day (1)

davegravy (1019182) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598159)

(That's magnet with an "e", as per the subject line) :D

HA! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598175)

Those fish are going to be FUCKED when the poles flip!

Are they iPhone compatible? (1)

mj1856 (589031) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598179)

Seriously - let's combine this article with the earlier one from today [slashdot.org] . All we need are some nanotrancievers and rainbow trout do the mapping!

Re:Are they iPhone compatible? (1)

canadiannomad (1745008) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598555)

Yeah, this article completely reminded me of that article. It seems to me that the compas learning could be done in a very similar way.

Trout Research Accident (1)

hedgemage (934558) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598257)

I was bitten by a radioactive rainbow trout when I was a student. Now I have the proportionate strength and agility of a rainbow trout, so yeah... not much of a change.
At least I get rainbow trout sense! I always know which stream is home.

Re:Trout Research Accident (1)

jackbird (721605) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598717)

Well, that and you almost always know when someone gets your order wrong at a restaurant.

Steelhead Trout (1)

tomhath (637240) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598507)

TFA calls them Rainbow Trout, but usually the anadromous variety are called Steelhead Trout [kingcounty.gov] . Kind of interesting that the name was given to them long before anyone knew their heads contain little magnets.

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Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40598623)

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nike sko dame
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nike free run+ 3 pink

What's the catch? (2)

Vegemeister (1259976) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598691)

How was this difficult? I mean, wouldn't it just be:

1. Puree
2. Dredge with magnet

Re:What's the catch? (3, Interesting)

gman003 (1693318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598907)

Because the cells are far too weak a magnet for that to work. Any magnet strong enough to pull out the magnetic cells will be strong enough to move *any* water-containing cell.

From reading TFA, it seems they did this by placing samples under a microscope, then slowly rotating a strong magnet beneath it. The magnetic cells rotated with the magnet; the non-magnetic cells did not.

The human male has magnetic cells too. (3, Funny)

Kaz Kylheku (1484) | more than 2 years ago | (#40598719)

They are located in the dermis of the upper lip and produce a feature called "moustache".

This produces an irresistible magnetic attraction in the opposite sex.

Tor Discussion Forums + DNSCrypt (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40599177)

# In this post:
#
# 1. Tor Discussion Forums (two hidden services)
# 2. DNSCrypt - for Linux, Mac, and Windows (from opendns)

# 1. Tor Discussion Forums (two hidden services)

We need an official Tor discussion forum.

I did not see this issue mentioned in Roger's *latest* notes post, so for now, mature adults should visit and post at one or both of these unofficial tor discussion forums, these tinyurls will take you to:

** HackBB:
        http://www.tinyurl.com/hackbbonion [tinyurl.com]

** Onion Forum 2.0
        http://www.tinyurl.com/onionforum2 [tinyurl.com]

Each tinyurl link will take you to a hidden service discussion forum. Tor is required to visit these links, even though they appear to be on the open web, they will lead you to .onion sites.

I know the Tor developers can do better, but how many years are we to wait?

Caution: some topics may be disturbing. You should be eighteen years or older. I recommend you disable images in your browser when viewing these two forums[1] and only enabling them if you are posting a message, but still be careful! Disable javascript and cookies, too.

If you prefer to visit the hidden services directly, bypassing the tinyurl service:

HackBB: (directly)
http://clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion/ [clsvtzwzdgzkjda7.onion]

Onion Forum 2.0: (directly)
http://65bgvta7yos3sce5.onion/ [65bgvta7yos3sce5.onion]

The tinyurl links are provided as a simple means of memorizing the hidden services via a link shortening service (tinyurl.com).

[1]: Because any content can be posted! Think 4chan, for example. onionforum2 does not appear to be heavily moderated so be aware and take precautions.

###

# 2. DNSCrypt for Linux, Windows, Mac (from opendns.com)

"In the same way the SSL turns HTTP web traffic into HTTPS encrypted Web traffic, DNSCrypt turns regular DNS traffic into encrypted DNS traffic that is secure from eavesdropping and man-in-the-middle attacks. It does not require any changes to domain names or how they work, it simply provides a method for securely encrypting communication between our customers and our DNS servers in our data centers. We know that claims alone do not work in the security world, however, so we have opened up the source to our DNSCrypt code base and it is available on GitHub"

https://www.opendns.com/technology/dnscrypt/ [opendns.com]

- Download the right package for your Linux distribution:
https://blog.opendns.com/2012/02/16/tales-from-the-dnscrypt-linux-rising/ [opendns.com]

https://github.com/opendns/dnscrypt-proxy/blob/master/README.markdown [github.com]
https://github.com/opendns [github.com]
https://blog.opendns.com/2012/05/08/dnscrypt-for-windows-has-arrived/ [opendns.com]
http://techcrunch.com/2011/12/05/dnscrypt-encrypts-your-dns-traffic-because-theres-always-someone-out-to-get-you/ [techcrunch.com]
http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/DNSCrypt-a-tool-to-encrypt-all-DNS-traffic-1392283.html [h-online.com]
http://blog.opendns.com/2012/02/06/dnscrypt-hackers-wanted/ [opendns.com]
https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/dnscrypt-930439/ [linuxquestions.org]

###

eof

bio RF detection or communication (1)

backslashdot (95548) | more than 2 years ago | (#40599535)

I wonder how radio communication never evolved in animals (and/or plants). It seems like it's something that should be possible given the fact that we all use electrical signals in the nervous system. Heck some creatures like the electric eel can produce lots of it. I imagine it may start of with sea creatures that can detect others by detecting electrical activity and then refining that to rf tuning followed by the ability to adjust ones own electrical activity at well. I suspect that given a few hundred million years we should see something evolve that can use radio-communication. Assuming there aren't already creatures with that yet undiscovered ability. Who knows maybe this rainbow trout can do it, has anyone checked?

Re:bio RF detection or communication (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40601145)

It actually exists and is studied:
See : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnotiformes

"The electric organs of most Gymnotiformes produce tiny discharges of just a few millivolts, far too weak to cause any harm to other fish. Instead, they are used to help navigate the environment, including locating the bottom-dwelling invertebrates that compose their diet. They may also be used to send signals between fish of the same species.[5]"

One free scientific paper you can start with if you are interested:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18456893

Re:bio RF detection or communication (1)

backslashdot (95548) | more than 2 years ago | (#40612859)

Nice, I should have done more research! Thanks.

Fucking magnets... (1)

kh31d4r (2591021) | more than 2 years ago | (#40599701)

....how do they work?

Don't expect too much (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#40600271)

Yes, I know this is Slashdot, but, still, don't expect then to screw like the average girlfriend. No, I haven't tried magnets.

Rainbow Trout in the Ocean, eh? (1)

certain death (947081) | more than 2 years ago | (#40601125)

Rainbow Trout are not salt water fish, they are fresh water only. Article is bullshit.

Article is bullshit? (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 2 years ago | (#40601881)

"Rainbow Trout are not salt water fish, they are fresh water only. Article is bullshit."

No, you are. ;)

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_trout#Life_cycle [wikipedia.org]

"Like salmon, steelheads are anadromous: they return to their original hatching ground to spawn. Similar to Atlantic salmon, but unlike their Pacific Oncorhynchus salmonid kin, steelheads are iteroparous (able to spawn several times, each time separated by months) and make several spawning trips between fresh and salt water. The steelhead smolts (immature or young fish) remain in the river for about a year before heading to sea, whereas salmon typically return to the seas as smolts."

Re:Article is bullshit? (1)

certain death (947081) | more than 2 years ago | (#40601937)

Yes, Steelhead, there is a difference.

Re:Article is bullshit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40621555)

"Yes, Steelhead, there is a difference."

From the Wikipedia page:

"The steelhead is a sea-run rainbow trout (anadromous) usually returning to freshwater to spawn after two to three years at sea; rainbow trout and steelhead trout are the same species."

So, they are the same species.

Bozos (1)

edrobinson (976396) | more than 2 years ago | (#40602713)

Rainbow trout do not migrate to the sea and back. Perhaps your thinking of Steelheads.
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