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GNAA (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600327)

GNAA

Great (4, Funny)

Cyphase (907627) | about 2 years ago | (#40600337)

Trade is good.

Right?

Re:Great (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600397)

Apparently spending (wasting, in my opinion) money on these things is even better.

Re:Great (5, Informative)

siddesu (698447) | about 2 years ago | (#40600639)

Trade is good. Using "trade" as an excuse to subvert the democratic process and force via "international agreements" legislation that favors big business is neither good, nor acceptable.

BTW, the summary is wrong, it isn't the EU that is "trying to revive ACTA", it is the European Commission -- the unelected cabinet of Europe, way beyond any control from the little Europeans -- that is trying to do so. They are, for some reason, particularly sensitive to the needs of big business.

Re:Great (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600743)

BTW, the summary is wrong, it isn't the EU that is "trying to revive ACTA", it is the European Commission -- the unelected cabinet of Europe, way beyond any control from the little Europeans -- that is trying to do so. They are, for some reason, particularly sensitive to the needs of big business.

The European Commission is the executive body of the European Union. So yes, it's the EU. And if it's fair to bash on Americans for actions taken by the US Federal government, it's fair to blame the "little guys" in Europe for the actions taken by the EC.

Re:Great (5, Insightful)

siddesu (698447) | about 2 years ago | (#40600869)

You can blame anyone you choose, but your reasoning is faulty.

In general, the leverage that the European citizens have over the EC is significantly smaller than the leverage the Americans have over their federal government. This is so because of the way EC commissars .... ops, commissioners are appointed to serve, and because of the complex patron-client relationships that exist between the various national political elites that make the appointments, the European Council, the key commissars and the major European "parties".

In this specific instance, the only body of the EU that represents the "little guys" directly, the European Parliament, rejected ACTA very clearly (and under massive grassroots pressure), so you cannot really blame the EU electorate.

What you are witnessing here is a small clique of euro bureaucrats gaming the rules of the EU, trying to subvert the will of this elected body. They are the ones who should bear all the blame.

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600945)

Still, Obama was able to make ACTA sail right through into US law, because he is owned by the entertainment business and has too much power. Sure, he can be voted out, but he still has too much power while he's there.

Re:Great (5, Interesting)

siddesu (698447) | about 2 years ago | (#40601013)

I don't disagree, but to me it looks like in the US this is happening because more people find it acceptable, while in the EU it is mostly due to failure of the institutions. Well, or success, depending on where you stand. Incidentally, ACTA passed quite smoothly in Japan because the electorate is absolutely passive and can't be bothered to have an opinion, but now that it has been rejected in the EU, negative attitude has started to appear.

Re:Great (5, Interesting)

AngryDeuce (2205124) | about 2 years ago | (#40601201)

but to me it looks like in the US this is happening because more people find it acceptable

This. For whatever reason, it seems like more and more people are voting against their interests, all because of the promise of some benefit to someone else. Look at the debate over taxes here in the U.S., I've had people that live in a trailer, working at Walmart for $7.15 an hour, flame the shit out of me over my opinion because "the government is taxing them to death". Really? What could the tax burden on someone living at the fucking poverty line even be? Who the fuck are they fighting for?

It's not just taxes, either; the healthcare debate is another perfect example. I had an old friend of mine, whose wife is on social security for a disability (she's "got bad wrists", which reeks of BS anyway), medicaid, and they now collect food stamps since she's pregnant and they both have minimum wage jobs, not to mention the cost of her care related to the pregnancy is completely absorbed by the state...this person ranted all over me about the nanny state and people "expecting handouts". I pointed out what a huge fucking hypocrite he was, and he told me that it was different in his situation because he works and when he makes money later he'll be forced to pay whereas all the people on it now are just lazy and don't want to work. Everyone else, just not him or his wife. Funny how that works...

I don't know when it happened, but a sizable number of people in this country have been convinced that the government they themselves elected is an evil machine hell bent on wiping them out because "that's what government does", but the multi-national corporations that answer to no one, buy off our officials, skirt the taxes the people bitch about having to pay, and all sorts of other antisocial, repugnant bullshit...they're just benevolent overlords doing God's good work.

Re:Great (2)

Gr8Apes (679165) | about 2 years ago | (#40601321)

You can blame anyone you choose, but your reasoning is faulty.

In general, the leverage that the European citizens have over the EC is significantly smaller than the leverage the Americans have over their federal government.

.... a whole lot of statements about corruption and cronyism that applies equally well to the US political system

No worries there, when it comes to coporatocracy and cronyism, I think we're in a neck to neck race.

Re:Great (3, Insightful)

Teun (17872) | about 2 years ago | (#40600965)

it is the European Commission -- the unelected cabinet of Europe, way beyond any control from the little Europeans

Crap, yes it's the commission that brings up these dofus ideas but they are no more 'unelected' than many EU governments.
These guys don't fall from the sky but are appointed by national governments that are controlled by elected parliaments and their plans have to pass the elected EU parliament, it's up to you to take part in your national and EU elections to control them.

I agree it's rather scandalous they once more try to force such unwanted legislation but have good hopes the various national governments will instruct their commissioner to either take out the sting or stop the whole process, otherwise the EU parliament will bury it as happened with ACTA.

Re:Great (3, Insightful)

siddesu (698447) | about 2 years ago | (#40601071)

Aw, come on. The national governments do indeed appoint the candidates, and there are hearing sessions in the EP before the commissars are put forward and the commission is approved, but the process behind these appointments is in no way transparent, compared to, say, electing a national government.

The big countries and the important bureaucrats play complicated games with their clientelle in the smaller countries, there are all kinds of backstage games and agreements, etc. so in the end you get a "government" that is much more responsive to the cabal that runs these negotiations than to anyone else.

Then, there is the sad fact that the Commission is viewed as something remote and inaccessible by the voters in Europe (or at least by the people I know), and there is a lot less public scrutiny directed at them as well.

So, compared to a national government, the EC suffers less oversight, gets less feedback, and consequently feels more powerful.

Re:Great (1)

Teun (17872) | about 2 years ago | (#40601333)

Then, there is the sad fact that the Commission is viewed as something remote and inaccessible by the voters in Europe (or at least by the people I know), and there is a lot less public scrutiny directed at them as well.

I agree that large swaths of the press are not furthering the EU ideal but rather some masters interest, the prime example are the British rags continuing to regurgitate nonsense like about bent cucumbers supposedly being illegal to market.

Sigh (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600359)

How long will this continue to go on?

The article contains a handy side-by-side comparison of the CETA clauses that are nearly identical to ones found in ACTA.

Also, the comments that will be made in this thread are likely to be nearly identical to ones made for ACTA.

Re:Sigh (5, Funny)

solidraven (1633185) | about 2 years ago | (#40600395)

Yes, and that might obscure the more worrying issue here. They infringed on the writer of ACTA's rights by copying said clauses!

Re:Sigh (1)

ameen.ross (2498000) | about 2 years ago | (#40600625)

You mean the writer of CETA infringed his own copyright? IP has reached a new low.

Let them talk forever, it's what the EU is for (5, Insightful)

captainpanic (1173915) | about 2 years ago | (#40600405)

How long will this continue to go on?

Hopefully forever. European counties founded the EU because it's better to keep the politicians talking about money than to have them threaten each other and start a war. First it was a union for coal and steel, now it's apparently music and entertainment. Same thing though: it keeps them occupied, and the results are generally a bit less awful than a world war.

The more they talk, the less harm is done.

Re:Let them talk forever, it's what the EU is for (5, Interesting)

Kjella (173770) | about 2 years ago | (#40600653)

Hopefully forever. European counties founded the EU because it's better to keep the politicians talking about money than to have them threaten each other and start a war.

As long as it was a trade union as trade is mostly good for everyone and create positive dependencies, but what's been happening recently? Hell no. Greeks and the other countries that have been forced to beg for aid feeling they've lost all sovereignty and is being dictated by France and Germany, while the Germans feel they're being blackmailed into covering other people debt and all the old nation lines are flaring red hot again, insults about who's lazy and spoiled and cruel and whatnot. Lately they've ripped open many old wounds and created a lot of new ones and it's far from over.

The politicians want stronger central control but the people doesn't, I fear that the current path they're on is going to take them more in the direction of a Soviet Union, Yugoslavia or Roman Empire where there's a lot of states on the outskirts that feel they are getting overrun by a big central government in Brussels. Granted there's a lot less guns involved but there sure is a lot of economic blackmail, which I hardly think is the best foundation for a union. Rushing too fast into a United States of Europe to save the economy may turn out to be rather counterproductive to actually creating a united Europe.

Re:Let them talk forever, it's what the EU is for (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600987)

Soviet Union, Yugoslavia, Roman Empire - all failed states.

The people will get what they want.

Re:Let them talk forever, it's what the EU is for (2)

captainpanic (1173915) | about 2 years ago | (#40601237)

I totally agree that a more centralized control and a more powerful government in Brussels is actually a threat to the EU, and more power to Brussels will ultimately make the EU weaker until it fails altogether...

But right now, it still works. It's going the wrong way, but it has not yet failed.

And regarding the blackmail and the costs of the EU and the crisis: A couple thousand euro is nothing in comparison to being bombed or shot. The economic crisis is nothing compared to a war.

Re:Let them talk forever, it's what the EU is for (2)

Gripp (1969738) | about 2 years ago | (#40600825)

What I don't get is why they haven't tried not naming the thing to get it passed. Seems to me that any bill named something like "GBR-98691.02" gets through with little public attention, and they know it.

Re:Sigh (1)

ocularsinister (774024) | about 2 years ago | (#40600425)

The beatings, as they say, will continue until moral improves.

Re:Sigh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600635)

How long will this continue to go on?

Until people start getting gunned down for shit like this.

Re:Sigh (2)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#40600723)

Your right, How much longer will Slashdot keep posting stories with Acronyms without defining them on their first use. (Ok they got CETA, but not ACTA)

I mean how much work is it to put names CETA (Cheese Eaters Temperance Act) vs. ACTA (American Cheddar Termination Act)
I am opposed to both, I am a big fan of Cheese myself, I wouldn't want to be limited by the CETA, I want my rights to eat cheese anywhere in the world and Although Cheddar is a british cheese, America has came up with a cheese that tastes just a good and without all all the international shipping of food problems.

It never will (4, Insightful)

oztiks (921504) | about 2 years ago | (#40600753)

Name your reason, kiddy porn, hacking, illegal downloads, so on and so fourth.

Polticans will think they are doing the world/country justice trying to eliminate one of the above problems, they put forward a policy until its very many faults are examined and it's abandoned.

Another policitican comes along, thinks they are doing the world/country a justice trying to eliminate one of the above problems, except for the last one cause that's still in the news, they put forward a policy until its very many faults are examined and it's abandoned.

Another politician comes along ........

Not in this case (2)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | about 2 years ago | (#40601121)

Nobody thinks they are doing the world a favor by fighting copyright or trademark infringement. They know they are doing a specific industry a favor. No person with any power actually thinks copyrights, patents, trademarks, or trade secrets carry any moral weight; the purpose of such legal constructs is to give a boost to particular industries.

Whoops (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600375)

Someone just broke copyright writing CETA.

So... (5, Funny)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 2 years ago | (#40600387)

Can we blame Canada now?

Synonyms (5, Funny)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | about 2 years ago | (#40600391)

You say, "I don't want to be raped by your dildo," and they respond with, "Well, how about this one? It's a different color!"

Re:Synonyms (5, Funny)

Chrisq (894406) | about 2 years ago | (#40600411)

You say, "I don't want to be raped by your dildo," and they respond with, "Well, how about this one? It's a different color!"

Well they say "the Mounty always gets his man".

Re:Synonyms (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600493)

How about this pineapple?

Re:Synonyms (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600775)

Followed by, "Well, if you don't like the pineapple, I have something much less painful. How about this dildo?"

Then, six years later, you're being abused with the pineapple because it is less painful than the Chihuahua.

Re:Synonyms (1)

queBurro (1499731) | about 2 years ago | (#40600797)

rule 34

Re:Synonyms (2)

mrchaotica (681592) | about 2 years ago | (#40600961)

Here you go. [youtube.com]

Resale rights ??? (5, Informative)

DMorritt (923396) | about 2 years ago | (#40600413)

Resale rights. The EU is demanding that Canada implement a new resale right that would provide artists with a royalty based on any resales of their works (subsequent to the first sale).

Because when you buy a car (or any other second hand goods) through a private classified ad, Ford (etc) get a slice of that too... This is insane!

Re:Resale rights ??? (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 2 years ago | (#40600431)

Resale rights. The EU is demanding that Canada implement a new resale right that would provide artists with a royalty based on any resales of their works (subsequent to the first sale). Because when you buy a car (or any other second hand goods) through a private classified ad, Ford (etc) get a slice of that too... This is insane!

I thought it was Canada trying to impose this on the EU. Which way round is it?

Re:Resale rights ??? (5, Informative)

Phrogman (80473) | about 2 years ago | (#40600509)

Its Big Media (tm) trying to impose this on the world, in this case through their hired lapdog Canada's PM Steven Harper. Harper will do whatever it takes to pass legislation he wants passed. Usually he does this by inserting it in legislation that has no bearing on the new insertions - recently this meant changes to our criminal code and prison system, revamping the entire fisheries act, attempting to close down environmental groups etc, all inserted in some budget legislation that was because of its nature, not open to general debate. Harper is very close to acting like a dictator in many ways, and he is ramming through his provisions to create the most authoritarian version of Canada in its history, while letting Canadians retain what appears to be freedom.
A large part of this seems to be enacting whatever legislation will best suit the folks who run the US - i.e. Big Media corporations and the Patent trolling folks down south of the border. I would say the insertion of the text of ACTA in another bill is perfectly in keeping with the way Harper acts.

Re:Resale rights ??? (1)

DMorritt (923396) | about 2 years ago | (#40600817)

Maybe someone should invade Canada, and bring Democracy to the place? We can use your opression of the native Inuit people as some form of reasoning I guess, do you guys still have any gold left?

You have to wonder though, I mean these guys are pretty good at worming their ways into getting what they want, will they ever actually give up? You have to admire their persistence even if you dislike what they are trying to do. ACTA is basically dead, if there is enough resistance to this new CETA, I guess it would be mothballed, but then what? It'll just end up going into the next trade agreement, maybe as a revision to existing ones. Eventually will people stop paying attention enough?

Are these media companies really trying the old method of asking for something ridiculous, then settling for something "reasonable" (by their standards, and exactly what they wanted in the first place, but we're all expected to accept it as it's been "watered down"), even though it doesn't suit everybody, or are they going to keep on asking/demanding what they want till they get it?

Re:Resale rights ??? (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 2 years ago | (#40600901)

Maybe someone should invade Canada, and bring Democracy to the place? We can use your opression of the native Inuit people as some form of reasoning I guess, do you guys still have any gold left?

I think their mineral rights in the Arctic might well "have nothing to do with our liberation of the impressed Inuits"

Re:Resale rights ??? (1)

Talderas (1212466) | about 2 years ago | (#40600971)

Bah forget that reason. Invade Canada to allow Quebec to secede from it.

Re:Resale rights ??? (2)

c (8461) | about 2 years ago | (#40600979)

> Its Big Media (tm) trying to impose this on the world, in this case through
> their hired lapdog Canada's PM Steven Harper. Harper will do whatever
> it takes to pass legislation he wants passed.

A Liberal majority would have done about the same thing, although I can't imagine them being as hamfisted about it.

I suspect an NDP majority (unlikely as it is) would reject it initially, but give them some time to get comfortable with power and I expect they'll break, too.

Lobbiests don't care whether the people in power are wearing blue, red, or orange ties. The formula for converting them to their cause is about the same, and human nature being what it is the odds are pretty good for them in the long run. Combined with some arm twisting from the US, and the situation isn't pretty.

Don't get caught up thinking about this in a partisan fashion. You have to assume that any politician of any stripe will fuck you over if that's what it takes to hold on to power and push their personal agenda. Or that of their party.

Re:Resale rights ??? (4, Informative)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 2 years ago | (#40601257)

Usually he does this by inserting it in legislation that has no bearing on the new insertions - recently this meant changes to our criminal code and prison system, revamping the entire fisheries act, attempting to close down environmental groups etc, all inserted in some budget legislation that was because of its nature, not open to general debate.

Wait, that's a new horrible thing in Canada? In the States, that's an extremely common technique called a rider [wikipedia.org] , where the unpopular provision is passed by riding along with something completely unrelated.

A related technique is called the "poison pill", where you add a provision totally unrelated to the main bill to either wreck a good bill or sweeten a bad bill. The idea is to put incumbents in a bad spot by creating a bill that says something like "Motherhood and apple pie are both fantastic, and we should kill 10 kittens a day for fun." If our hapless legislator votes Nay, the ads will say "Senator Buford opposes motherhood and apple pie!" while if he votes Yea, the ads will say "Senator Buford supports killing kittens!" And no, Senator Buford can't defend himself by explaining what really happened, because the voter's attention span is too short.

Re:Resale rights ??? (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about 2 years ago | (#40600685)

Most likely EU forcing this on Canada. It would seem to be a version of Droit de suite, which is french for "right to follow", which Europe has and Canada doesn't. I think in practice, it pretty much only applies to art auctions. It's really stupid anyway, though.

Re:Resale rights ??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600805)

Canadian here. We are leading the world in draconian copyright laws, not being led.

This is war (5, Insightful)

Pecisk (688001) | about 2 years ago | (#40600417)

If someone didn't understand, this is war. We have billions industry fighting this who has lot of money to waste on politicians and lobbying, and they won't give up their rights to get easy money without any economical logic. This ain't first, and won't be our last battle, and we should accept this as that. What's good that this also creates generation of new politicians who are very informed about moral/economical/legal issues of IPR regimes. More they pushing this, more people see what's their real aims are.

Re:This is war (1)

Xest (935314) | about 2 years ago | (#40600521)

It's nothing new, the US and it's supporters have been trying to shovel stricter IP policy globally since the creation of the WTO. In fact, that's the whole reason they created the WTO, the difference back then is it was more about the pharmaceutical industry, now it's about the content industries too, but pharmaceutical firms are still very much part of the contingent of lobbyists on this sort of issue.

Re:This is war (1)

bbbaldie (935205) | about 2 years ago | (#40600561)

I'm fighting them, I've donated money to the EFF and advertised on all of my sites promoting them.

But I'm assuming that sooner of later the asshats will win. Ergo, I'm stocking up hard on Russian-bought music and movies. If it all came to a halt tomorrow, I have two very nice collections. I'll never go see another film in a theater, though, or rent a DVD. And the last music nickel the RIAA made off of me was circa 2005.

Our purse is still ours (2)

ThatsNotPudding (1045640) | about 2 years ago | (#40600833)

We still have one weapon: stop buying (or copying) their tawdry wares. Although it wouldn't suprise me much is they began legislation to, we are not yet forced to buy corporate books, music, or movies. We should be making our own, or learning some other worthy skills instead of growing fatter on the couch or deafer in the ears.

And if we can't live without these mostly mindless blathering distractions, that's on us.

Re:Our purse is still ours (1)

Pecisk (688001) | about 2 years ago | (#40600875)

Problem is that ACTA and all new legislation actually enforces ideas of *not* having your own movies or music. It simply can't be that you made your own. All base belong to us. Give us your money, now.

Re:Our purse is still ours (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600917)

Goliath Corporation, anyone?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eyre_Affair

Re:This is war (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600893)

I am so sick and tired of people using war as a metaphor for every conflict imaginable. It devalues the meaning of the word "war" and makes it harder to discuss the issue at hand in a civilized manner. This is not a war, it's a political/legislative question where there is significant disagreement between the affected parties.

This does not mean that this is not a very important issue worthy of political action. But it is not a war.

Not a surprise (5, Informative)

hey_popey (1285712) | about 2 years ago | (#40600427)

It's not like if we weren't warned; some Euro-MPs had announced this: https://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Translation_Interview_Marielle_Gallo_ACTA_pcinpact [laquadrature.net]

Re:Not a surprise (5, Insightful)

ifiwereasculptor (1870574) | about 2 years ago | (#40600483)

I can't really decide if that's extremely funny or incredibly scary. Did she actually say that people should have nothing to do with laws? That she'd keep pushing it covertly until it passed, making no compromises? Whoever votes for that woman is a very special kind of idiot.

Re:Not a surprise (4, Insightful)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | about 2 years ago | (#40600551)

We don't really vote for MEPs. We vote for European political parties, almost all of which are made up of groups of national political parties. So people end up voting for the same party they vote for in their own country, and it's often not the best and brightest who advance to European politics, quite the contrary in fact. It seems that the only "good" politicians who get into europarliament are the onces who need a bit of a break from the busy life of national politics.

Re:Not a surprise (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600601)

In India, they made it a law that forbids non-scientists, non-appointed people and generally all those people whom they cannot tackle to protest against GM crops.
Effectively snubbing people's protests. All the lawmakers have banded together, the loud and protesting middle class have been shut out, villagers are clueless. let's see if the lawmakers try a similar stunt based on the precedence here. (I hope not, but you never know)

thanks Monsanto! I hate them with vengeance along with a large set of American lawmakers and their supporters.

Re:Not a surprise (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40601077)

In India, they made it a law that forbids non-scientists, non-appointed people and generally all those people whom they cannot tackle to protest against GM crops.
Effectively snubbing people's protests. All the lawmakers have banded together, the loud and protesting middle class have been shut out, villagers are clueless. let's see if the lawmakers try a similar stunt based on the precedence here. (I hope not, but you never know)

thanks Monsanto! I hate them with vengeance along with a large set of American lawmakers and their supporters.

Well, then don't protest - just calmly spread the word of the mouth, explain to villagers how are they screwed over and think up ways of resistance. M.K.Gandhi showed the way a long time ago, so that we should all know how to fight for our freedom.

And, it will be defeated just like before ... (3, Interesting)

acidfast7 (551610) | about 2 years ago | (#40600449)

because when people don't like something over here, they actively protest. I'm not saying that I agree with everything that is being protested for/against, but the apathy I see coming (perhaps, not coming is more accurate) out of North America just flat-out baffles me.

Then it will be revived again (5, Insightful)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | about 2 years ago | (#40601079)

Eventually, protesters run out of steam. High-paid lobbyists don't stop. This sort of thing will be revived over and over until the industry gets what it wants. That's how democracy works, right? Keep demanding things until people lose the energy to vote against you.

Re:Then it will be revived again (1)

acidfast7 (551610) | about 2 years ago | (#40601199)

No, democracy works because we (I'm still a US citizen and can't vote in all elections) remember who supported a bill/proposal we didn't like and we don't elect them again. After the first few people don't get elected again, the politicians take the hint. However, that hint can be made quite strongly when there are thousands demonstrating in the central square of a major city against ACTA, which happened all across Germany and most of Europe. In the US, there is a severe lack of choice at the national level (Republicans and Democrats are relatively similar ... both pro-corp), which is a serious issue that should lead to more, not less, protesting. Also, protesters never run out of steam when the issues is very important ... Athens is still on fire, for example.

Re:Then it will be revived again (1)

acidfast7 (551610) | about 2 years ago | (#40601273)

Another example is that Occupy Frankfurt is still camped out right next to the European Central Bank and they're not going anywhere, any time soon. You just assume that protesters will "run out steam." Grow a backbone.

Amateur protestors vs professional lobbyists (5, Insightful)

Rogerborg (306625) | about 2 years ago | (#40600453)

This is the lobbyists 9-5 (well, 11-3 including a 2 hour expenses lunch) job. It's just going to go on and on and on, and they will never stop, ever, regardless of either setback or success. There won't be enough profit or laws or mandatory nagware or State enforcement to satisfy them, because this is what they do. This is all that they do.

While we won the battle on the barricades, they continued the war by creeping in through the sewers. They're in this for the duration, and so we have to be too.

Re:Amateur protestors vs professional lobbyists (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600537)

Well liberty, equality and fraternity have to be defended and won all the time, because the world has the tendency to produce rich and poor, powerful and hopeless people. Democracy has to be won by every generation. It does not stay just by itself and especially not when there are no democrats left. BTW: egoism and short-sightedness are two concepts which help to deteriorate democratic and enlightened behavior and are therefor helpful to those who want to first take our money and then take our freedom.

Re:Amateur protestors vs professional lobbyists (5, Insightful)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 2 years ago | (#40600761)

As long as they are on the offense, we are on the defence.

Meaning, even if they don't win, we don't either.

That's why the actual goal is to attack them.

Re:Amateur protestors vs professional lobbyists (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40601093)

Adequate attack would be to bring some higher legal document, some bill of rights or a constitution which would explicitly make any further attempt illegal.

Re:Amateur protestors vs professional lobbyists (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600931)

You can't push a bill if you're dead.

Re:Amateur protestors vs professional lobbyists (1)

Barefoot Monkey (1657313) | about 2 years ago | (#40601113)

You can't push a bill if you're dead.

If you can push a daisy, you can push a bill!

A permanent solution needed (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600469)

Can't they make it illegal to waste court's time by bringing up similar proposals under newer names every month or so.

Instead of rejecting the proposal, they need to reject specific provisions of the proposal so they can't be rehashed under a new name again.

Re:A permanent solution needed (1)

the_xaqster (877576) | about 2 years ago | (#40600793)

Nuke the site from Orbit, It's the only way to be sure....

Falkvinge addresses this (5, Informative)

G-forze (1169271) | about 2 years ago | (#40600489)

Rick Falkvinge comments [falkvinge.net] . It seems CETA was written sometime in february when ACTA looked like a done deal, so it is natural that it contains the same language. But it is true that we can expect the European commission to try to bring ACTA in through the back door, so we should keep our eyes open.

Keep your eyes open please, Europe (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600491)

The European Parliament voted overwhelmingly to reject the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement - 478 to 39.

According to TFA, CETA was drafted in February 2012, months before ACTA's resounding defeat. So presumably CETA will not be allowed to go through as-is, providing that the European Parliament are paying attention. A letter or even just an e-mail to your local MEP could make a big difference, for those who live in Europe.

Still, after US online poker was banned by a rider on the SAFE Port Act, nothing would surprise me in the world of political skullduggery.

Re:Keep your eyes open please, Europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600859)

Nice downmod. Good to know that the RIAA and MPAA have accounts on slashdot too.

Relevant online lecture (5, Informative)

ocularsinister (774024) | about 2 years ago | (#40600497)

I can't help but think that the current series of Reith Lectures [bbc.co.uk] presented by the Professor Neil Ferguson is pertinent here.

The lectures are quite long at about an hour each, and there are only three of the final four available so far, but it is worth the taking the time to listen to what he has to say. If you are short of time, skip to the third episode where he explains that the rule of law has become the rule of lawyers and why this is bad for the economy.

Great for linux ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600545)

once this passes.. and it (or some similar form) will definitely pass since big money is involved.. the major pirate websites will be blocked at dns&ip level reducing piracy of windows and office. this is a boon for linux and libreoffice !

contact your meps (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600579)

I wrote an email to all my meps in eu (all voted against acta on july 4th, yay).

I thanked them for the previous vote and pointed out CETA. Do the same.

Show you still care and that they might be screwed over here. Make it their fight too.

Re:contact your meps (2)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40600703)

I get tired of the fight. Seriously. I mean, what do we keep paying those sponges? It's their effin' JOB to do what we're now supposed to do, i.e. inform them of the implications of the laws they design. Ok, correction, the laws they get handed by their "sponsors" to rubber stamp. Why again do they get that shitload of money from us? The average bum could do that job, and a hell of a lot cheaper.

Re:contact your meps (1)

ZeroSumHappiness (1710320) | about 2 years ago | (#40600821)

I gave up the fight when I spent an hour researching and drafting a well-worded letter against ACTA only to receive a 5-minute form letter saying, "Thank you for your support. I agree that ACTA is very important to US survival in our troubled world and I will do everything in my power to get it passed."

Re:contact your meps (2)

Teun (17872) | about 2 years ago | (#40601135)

So I assume next time you will not vote for this zombie?

I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (5, Insightful)

Fixer40000 (1921598) | about 2 years ago | (#40600583)

You will vote on this referendum again and again until we get the result we want.

At which point you will be stuck with it forever.

Democracy in action.

Re:I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (2)

lorinc (2470890) | about 2 years ago | (#40600693)

France was way more efficient at this. The French voted against the referendum, but former president Sarkozy decided to sign the treaty anyway...

Again, democracy in action.

Re:I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600839)

Same in the Netherlands. We voted no, but our dear PM Balkenende signed anyway. Offcourse the treaty was renamed from 'Europian Constitution' to 'Lisbon Treaty'. Same shit, different name.

Re:I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600851)

The same happened in the Netherlands, EU referendum was voted against, but signed anyway.

Re:I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (2)

Teun (17872) | about 2 years ago | (#40601221)

Don't be a Wilders stooge, yes there was a narrow majority of Dutch who voted NO in the referendum about the treaty but it is generally accepted it was more about a undefined bad feeling about the way Europe was moving than against the actual agreement as tabled.
The Lisbon treaty achieved more or less the same sort of EU integration but by different means so the Dutch government had every right to sign and the elected parliament supported the signing.
The best coming out of the Lisbon treaty is that the EU parliament has finally received the required powers generally associated with a functional parliament, it's those powers that will protect us against CETA.

Re:I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (1)

Inda (580031) | about 2 years ago | (#40600949)

Same as the UK with our last referendum about voting.

The question was not worded correctly. It was a case of "do you want X?", when a No vote mean we'd get "Y", when most actually wanted "Z", which wasn't offered.

Re:I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 2 years ago | (#40601009)

Z is always on offer. You just have to get enough people off the sofa, away from Britain's Got Next Top X Big Factor Idol Model Talent Brother, and get them in Parliament Square with a megaphone.

Re:I'm reminded of the EU referendum in Ireland (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40601109)

'Today we were unlucky, but remember we only have to be lucky once. You will have to be lucky always.' - A major terrorist organisation.

Ok, can the charade and let's get over with it. (3, Interesting)

Opportunist (166417) | about 2 years ago | (#40600689)

Just implement the law already. No, seriously. The only thing that will change is that it's cheaper in the end because this will come. Why? Because it has nothing to do with any kind of democratic process anymore. The crap will be reintroduced again and again and again until the people who keep an eye out for it will be distracted by something even worse and then it's in.

Why the fuck do we keep up the democracy show? Hand over the powers to the corporations already, if nothing else it should save us a lot of money for cutting out the middle man that now clutter the various parliaments.

Re:Ok, can the charade and let's get over with it. (1)

Teun (17872) | about 2 years ago | (#40601263)

You are unnecessarily negative, like the new rules about network neutrality we can tacle the issue from the other side and introduce a law requiring/guaranteeing certain freedoms on the subjects threatened by ACTA/CETA.
When we keep pestering our national and EU lawmakers it can happen, the example has been set.

Let's have another Canada-EU agreement (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40600699)

We need an agreement between our citizens to work hard to stop this crap.

I've got bad news from the Canadian side, though. We currently have a majority government that likes ramming through any legislation it pleases, en masse [economist.com] , regardless of public outcry or long-established conventions regarding parliamentary procedure.

Re:Let's have another Canada-EU agreement (0)

BlueStrat (756137) | about 2 years ago | (#40601081)

I've got bad news from the Canadian side, though. We currently have a majority government that likes ramming through any legislation it pleases, en masse [economist.com], regardless of public outcry or long-established conventions regarding parliamentary procedure.

Gee, we're having the same problem just to your south. Maybe they're caused by people who share a common ideology; one that demands ever-more centralized government control over ever-more aspects of everyone's lives, fewer individual rights and liberties, ever-more monitoring and censorship of all voice/data communications, and ever-more loss of freedoms, jobs, and massive redistribution of wealth under Utopian "social justice" and "economic justice" banners that are the new-speak for Marxist-style ideologies involving class warfare and wealth-redistribution to divide, inflame, incite, and distract the population and destabilize the society.

It doesn't matter whether you believe it's the "evil corporations/1%" or "evil big government" that's the problem, the solution to either/both starts with reining in government power.

If you believe it's the "evil corporations/1%", the corporations and ultra-rich use the power of corrupt government to exercise their power. If you believe it's "evil big-government", then of course government power is their tool.

Can't we at least agree that handing the government more power is a bad idea? Because no matter which side you're on, that just gives more power to your (our) enemies.

Or, just continue the blind partisanship and ignore it, and things will continue on getting worse and worse for everyone.

Strat

Why am I utterly unsurprised? (1)

VAElynx (2001046) | about 2 years ago | (#40600823)

This is standard EU modus operandi - push bullshit repeatedly until "correct" result is obtained.
I wonder how many of you remember the attempt at an european constitution. It was rejected in several countries. Next step, cut off the fluff, leave the crunch exactly the same ,and have it pass as "Lisbon Treaty". Failed again, despite what was essentially bullying - i have heard politicians making asinine arguments (then, and later with the euro wall moneysink) that we're part of a collective and we have to abide by it's rules, completely ignoring that there's an election going on because we just like everyone else have a fucking right to decide.
Anyways, Ireland didn't pass it, so a few exceptions were thrown to appease them specifically, and there was a rehash , with the quiet voice behind the wall mumbling that if they won't pass the bill, it'll result in future unofficial sanctions
And voila, Lisbon treaty, which reinforces centralization of the EU and chops off a significant portion of constituent countries' rights, and voice, was passed.
Expect nothing less than the same grade bullshit with ACTA.

Re:Why am I utterly unsurprised? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40601203)

Bad stuff. They don't know what they are toying with. Steel hoops never stopped a keg of powder from blowing into smithereens. If will of people is repeatedly violated, end result is either anomie or extreme apathy. Western societies are already deep into the latter and its rulers are using wrong medicine: scandals, shocks, reality shows, industrialized, insincere "fun" surrogates, which only make apathy deeper and wider.

Don't they realize it sucks to be a king of the dung worms? Money ... it is just more dung... yaay!

It's all in the name (1)

Abstergo (2677619) | about 2 years ago | (#40600947)

If history has anything to say about suspicious bills, it's that they usually come labeled with a horrid acronym (ACTA, CETA, UaSAbPATRtIaOT a.k.a. Patriot Act). If they instead chose to call it something with a little more heart (e.g. "The Europeans For Acquiescing to Government Supplicants Act"), or attach a famous name to it (e.g. "The George Washington CETA Act"), it would have far greater likelihood of appealing to the voting public.

it makes sense (1)

circletimessquare (444983) | about 2 years ago | (#40600995)

when the world pays attention, they glom onto name: ACTA

so just change the name, presto-bango: 90% of the popular opposition disappears because the general public just isn't that plugged in to translate their opposition to the new flavor-of-the-month rent seeking parasite legislation

hypothetically, what does everyone want? (1)

gsgriffin (1195771) | about 2 years ago | (#40601005)

I understand the whole debate here, I think. But where does everyone want this to go to? Do we want no laws even close to this so IP its not protected as the internet continues to grow? What biotech company is going to invest hundreds of millions of dollarsresearching a new drug if it can be copied by the next company cheaply. What musical artist its going to spend there own money to have it freely distributed around the world.
I understand the desire for no laws related to this, but what does everyone want and do they think in the end we will have more and better because of it?

Re:hypothetically, what does everyone want? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40601163)

What musical artist its going to spend there own money to have it freely distributed around the world.

Artists yes, companies churning out any old shit and making money by virtue of controlling the distribution channels -- no!

I understand the desire for no laws related to this, but what does everyone want and do they think in the end we will have more and better because of it?

What we want is a world where payola and marketing doesn't distort the market in favor of big business. There's a natural churn where businesses that outgrow their comptence are replaced by smaller organizations. The job of government in capitalist societies is to ensure the market functions, to prevent monopolies and cartels. These trade agreements were written by the incumbent cartels.

solution (1)

Gravis Zero (934156) | about 2 years ago | (#40601019)

pass (new) legislation that expressly protects from this bullshit that they keep reframing. at least that way you can point out that new BS bill X contradicts a bill that _they_ passed.

Interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40601057)

The text contain for example the following: "Each Party shall provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures that are used by authors, performers or producers of phonograms in connection with... "

Firstly, a technological measure in this aspect that is broken is not "effective", also as DRM is by definition broken as crypto keys must be distributed to the person you are protecting your stuff from, it is also not "effective", even before it has been broken.

Secondly, phonograms are by definition music and audio only (so, it must be free to crack video); and no music is sold with DRM these days (except for subscription services like Spotify), so what is the point of this?

Wow a lot of demands frmo EU. (1)

boylinux (775361) | about 2 years ago | (#40601343)

As a Canadian it looks like the EU is trying to butthurt me through this agreement. I hope Mr Geist gets on this.
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