Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

486 comments

"stealing" (5, Funny)

For a Free Internet (1594621) | about 2 years ago | (#40604117)

It is not "stealing" unless you are a slave to the notion of "property." In the future, everything will belong to me, so this won't be a problem any more. Hi Laura!

Nice to know... (5, Funny)

gadget junkie (618542) | about 2 years ago | (#40604131)

that my "old" BMW 3 series has a complicated security mechanism: to open it, you must have access to the ignition lock.

Re:Nice to know... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604777)

Why blame us engineers? Subject line should be: Keyless test fails when in production. Hobby programers prove incompetence

Re:Nice to know... (2)

slew (2918) | about 2 years ago | (#40604789)

that my "old" BMW 3 series has a complicated security mechanism: to open it, you must have access to the door key .

FTFY

Otherwize it might be hard to get back in if you lock the doors if you had to get access to the ignition lock ...

Of course on most older cars the door lock and the ignition lock are keyed the same for convenience of carrying one key. The ignition lock on many modern cars are electronic/RF "keyed" and the mechanical part of the composite ignition key (if there is one) is sometimes just for the door or maybe just the glove-compartment/petrol cap since onn higher end cars, the doors can often only be electronic/RF keyed as well...

Whats the difference... (5, Funny)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | about 2 years ago | (#40604135)

....between a BMW and a porcupine?

On the porcupine, the pricks are on the outside.

Re:Whats the difference... (5, Funny)

spire3661 (1038968) | about 2 years ago | (#40604221)

85% of all BMW owners Ive met are assholes. Strangely this doesnt apply to Mercedes owners.

Re:Whats the difference... (2)

TWX (665546) | about 2 years ago | (#40604303)

They're only about 65% in my experience...

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604823)

but you both are pure 100 percent...

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604393)

Funny. I've seen the exact opposite.

Re:Whats the difference... (4, Insightful)

Dahamma (304068) | about 2 years ago | (#40604469)

It's amazing how many BMW owners are assholes on the road ("I need to win the commute!") And some Mercedes owners seem to act like they own the road ("why is everyone in my way today?"). But neither scares me as much as Lexus soccer moms ("wait, did I drop my Luna bar under the passenger seat again? Oh, there it is! Hoooonnk screeeech!")

Overall I'd much rather be driving next to someone who cuts you off on purpose than one who didn't even realize they were doing it ;)

Re:Whats the difference... (3, Insightful)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40604541)

Yep, at least the person who cuts you off on purpose is actually watching the road and aware of their surroundings. They may be acting in an unsafe manner, but it's still a lot better than someone whose attention is elsewhere; the aggressive drivers who cut you off rarely actually hit you, because they're just being rude, but usually know their car's dimensions pretty well to pull off the maneuver without incident. I'm not saying it's great, but it's preferable to someone who's looking under their seat, at their kids in the back, texting on their phone, etc. instead of looking at the cars around them.

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

frosty_tsm (933163) | about 2 years ago | (#40605153)

Yep, at least the person who cuts you off on purpose is actually watching the road and aware of their surroundings.

You ignore the ones who expect you to brake to avoid them from hitting you as they enter your lane.

Re:Whats the difference... (3, Interesting)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40604567)

I was stopped at a traffic light during my morning commute when I watched a woman in the lane next to me slowly roll into the Lexus in front of her, then back off. The Lexus (male driver) then reversed and gently bumped into her. I can only hope they at least knew each other, but even then I wouldn't be playing gentle bumper cars given how touchy some airbag sensors can be.

Re:Whats the difference... (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about 2 years ago | (#40604807)

Overall I'd much rather be driving next to someone who cuts you off on purpose than one who didn't even realize they were doing it

Not me, a BMW won't do as much damage as a Lexus. But my observation is the twentysomethings who have one of those giant four seater pickup trucks with what looks like thirty inch wheels are the worst. They drive stupid AND are assholes. But I guess being born into money might give one a sense of entitlement, which probably explains the BMW and Ford assholes. They really do think they're better than you.

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605007)

It's amazing how many BMW owners are assholes on the road ("I need to win the commute!") And some Mercedes owners seem to act like they own the road ("why is everyone in my way today?").

Well that's what the old SDI Satellites are there for, if it moves, SHOOT IT.

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605155)

Yeah, when I cut someone off I usually give them the bird too -- for their benefit. That way there is no confusion; it was intentional.

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605159)

Only three comment levels deep and already a discussion of how quickly thieves can steal a BMW has devolved into a discussion of how bad soccer moms are at driving their vehicles. Classic.

Re:Whats the difference... (4, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 2 years ago | (#40604473)

Around here, it's mostly Lexus and Prius owners that are total dicks. BMW owners are a mixed bag depending which suburb you're in. Newer Buick owners tend to just be horrible drivers, but that may be because they remember when flint was discovered.

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40604565)

What's funny with the Buicks is that they've been on a campaign for a while to attract younger drivers. Of course, it really hasn't worked out that well.

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604765)

i've been driving buicks since i was 16.

of course, that's because my grandfather just gives me his car when he buys a new one.

still they're awesome cars as far as i'm concerned.

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605109)

I bought a Buick when I was 16. But then again it was a 1970 GS 455.

Re:Whats the difference... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604779)

That's because there seems to be some kind of Strategic Crown Victoria and Cutlass Ciera Reserve from which old people obtain their vehicles, at least in my area.

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#40604547)

85% of all BMW owners Ive met are assholes. Strangely this doesnt apply to Mercedes owners.

Judging by their average behavior on the road, 95% of Mercedes owners are assholes. I drive one, and that's probably an anecdote in favor of my argument, although I'm a give-what-you-get driver and if someone doesn't treat me like a dick I'm extremely considerate on the road, so I like to think I'm the exception. This assholishness reaches its Northern Californian peak somewhere around Marin, on the 101. BMW drivers are at least usually in a hurry, and thus you don't get stuck behind them as often as the Mercedes drivers, who typically feel entitled to the passing lane whether they're passing or not. Mercedes tend to cost a bit more than BMWs, so that makes sense; the richest people tend to be the most self-entitled.

On the next Geraldo, what we think of Prius drivers.

Another thing I've noticed is that there's no camaraderie between Mercedes drivers like there is among, say, Ford drivers. Not having owned a BMW, I can't speak to the Bavarian influence, but the only Mercedes owners than tend to even nod to one another when they pass or meet are in old turbo-diesels, and the older the better. Even most of the people in ones as new as mine (a W126) usually look like they think they're better than you.

Re:Whats the difference... (3, Interesting)

Bigby (659157) | about 2 years ago | (#40604583)

BMW has an entry-level model that allows people who can't actually afford their cars to get their cars. This is not the case with Mercedes. Those people can generally afford their cars. People who try to spend their way into luxury and debt at the same time tend to be the a$$holes you speak of. Those that actually earned their money to buy such a car are not so much.

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

Critical Facilities (850111) | about 2 years ago | (#40604945)

BMW has an entry-level model that allows people who can't actually afford their cars to get their cars. This is not the case with Mercedes.

Not true. Mercedes also has a lower end model [edmunds.com] that is comparable with other new sedans. Heck, there are pickup trucks that cost more than this one.

With that said, I don't disagree totally with the point you're making. I think way too often, the attitude of the folks driving these cars has more to do with how they want to be perceived (i.e. powerful, wealthy, stylish, etc) than anything else.

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604861)

85% of all BMW owners Ive met are assholes. Strangely this doesnt apply to Mercedes owners.

In the UK it is more like 97% and even higher for VW and Audi drivers assholes the lot .. strangley enough hotly followed by Rover drivers (I am driving my rover and will not get out of the way)

Re:Whats the difference... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604875)

Funny thing is that in Europe it's the Audi drivers (personal experience only).

Re:Whats the difference... (5, Insightful)

deadweight (681827) | about 2 years ago | (#40604883)

As a BMW owner, I can say that it seems 85% of the people who come near me turn into assholes when they see the blue-and-white symbol. Do you REALLY need to play boy racer in your Camaro and pass me on the right, drop back, pass me on the left, get ahead of me, and slam on the brakes when I have 3 little kids and a freaking DOG in the car? Do I look like I want to race you? Do you need to make dumb-ass global warming comments when my car gets better MPG than yours? Do you really need to carry on about the 1%ers ruining everything when my car has 200,000 miles on it?

Re:Whats the difference... (5, Insightful)

Ogive17 (691899) | about 2 years ago | (#40605169)

I just think 85% of people are assholes, no need to categorize them by favorite car brand.

:)

Not any more. That crown goes to Audi owners (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604993)

Thay've taken over from BMW as the choice of drivers who think they own the road and are almost guaranteed to do really stupid things to get where they want in zero seconds.
As for the Merc's? They are usually as the side of the road waiting for the tow truck. This especially applies to AMG Mercs.

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605209)

Because BMW is the Apple of cars. Overpriced, locked and insecure. But shiny.

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604225)

What does BMW stand for?

Big Money Waster.

Re:Whats the difference... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604281)

Driving forward it's a Black Man's Willy. In reverse, it's a White Man's Bum,

Re:Whats the difference... (2)

QRDeNameland (873957) | about 2 years ago | (#40604331)

What does BMW stand for?

Big Money Waster.

The best one I've heard is Behold My Wealth.

Re:Whats the difference... (3, Funny)

Yetihehe (971185) | about 2 years ago | (#40604493)

In Austria - Bayerische Mist Wagon (Bavarian manure wagon)

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

mholve (1101) | about 2 years ago | (#40605143)

"Die Frau sieht aus wie einen BMW." (Brett mit Wärtze).

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

scharkalvin (72228) | about 2 years ago | (#40604577)

Break My Wallet (expensive repairs)

Re:Whats the difference... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605141)

If you're in SF: Basic Marina Wheels

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

Duhavid (677874) | about 2 years ago | (#40604747)

Barely Moving Windows, in my experience.....

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40604877)

Bowel Movement on Wheels

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

DustyShadow (691635) | about 2 years ago | (#40604793)

Used to be "Break My Window"

I'm old.

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

torkus (1133985) | about 2 years ago | (#40605057)

Didn't you see the video? It still is...or is again 'Break My Window'

In other news, the 80's are back.

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

grimmjeeper (2301232) | about 2 years ago | (#40604845)

What does BMW stand for?

Big Money Waster.

I heard it was "Bought My Wife".

Re:Whats the difference... (1)

cvtan (752695) | about 2 years ago | (#40604881)

First of all, this traditionally is a Porsche joke. Secondly, my BMW is 40 years old and still runs, so negative comments do not apply.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/230140/1972-bmw-2002 [cardomain.com]

audi (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604159)

that's why i drive an audi.

Re:audi (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604349)

Just another Nazi cuntmachine. Park that thing around here and there's a good chance you'll find it upside down when you come back.

Re:audi (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604361)

Are you a Saudi?

Re:audi (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605047)

Wow, so you already knew this?

You could have made enough money selling that information to get yourself a real nice car.

Where's the insurance industry? (1)

ip_freely_2000 (577249) | about 2 years ago | (#40604161)

They're on the hook to replace these cars....and I'd be making damn sure my customers didn't buy another BMW they'd have to pay out on again.

Re:Where's the insurance industry? (4, Informative)

Insightfill (554828) | about 2 years ago | (#40604299)

Ah, but will the insurance companies deny [slashdot.org] these claims like they have in the past?

Club (4, Funny)

magarity (164372) | about 2 years ago | (#40604163)

Sounds like BMW owners are going to make a run on Pep Boys to get "the club".

Re:Club (4, Informative)

avandesande (143899) | about 2 years ago | (#40604485)

Steering wheels are a thin steel hoop enclosed in foam you can hacksaw through them in less than a minute.

Re:Club (1)

santiagoanders (1357681) | about 2 years ago | (#40604619)

Similar principles apply when locking your bicycle. Always lock it to something at least as difficult to cut as your bicycle lock/chain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iI3rctM0Dw [youtube.com]

Re:Club (1)

slimjim8094 (941042) | about 2 years ago | (#40604769)

That's not the point, same way as house locks and the Kensington lock on a laptop doesn't offer any real security. If somebody wants *your* car/house/laptop, you need much substantially stronger security to keep them out. But most thefts are crimes of opportunity, and it is sufficient to make it more of a hassle than something else, whether it's another theft or walking home instead of stealing a ride and driving. Steering-wheel locks and Kensington locks have a secondary purpose, which is to force the thief to damage the item in a way only stolen property would be. A meth head can't sell a stolen laptop with a busted kensington slot; no pawn shop or even quasi-reputable dealer will take it.

Re:Club (1)

avandesande (143899) | about 2 years ago | (#40605205)

Opportunists aren't going to be hacking into a BMW either, which is what the article is about. I would agree that a club has some preventive value....

That's an improvement... (1)

tompaulco (629533) | about 2 years ago | (#40604201)

That's an improvement over traditional locks, which can be defeated in 60 seconds, at least according to Driver's Ed class, and of course, the movie.

Re:That's an improvement... (1)

TheCarp (96830) | about 2 years ago | (#40604387)

I believe it. Having broken into my own car, and friends cars, it took me a lot longer, but ive seen an experienced person open a car door with a slim jim (not recomended on newer cars with air bags in the door)...its fast. (I have also seen them fumble and nearly fail....)

Hell a friend of mine that used to steal cars when he was younger locked himself out of his... and I had to help him break into it, with hardly any tools in sight. Took us nearly an hour and, in the end, we used a long stick (yes stick, like off a tree) to hit the door open button, through a crack we wedged open in the door jam with other sticks.

Once you are inside well.... its just a matter of popping out the ignition lock cylinder with a screw driver on many cars (I know a few that wont work at all on...like my old buick that basically had a resistor built into the key that it would read)

So the vast majority of cars are... a bit easier to steal than these BMWs.

Re:That's an improvement... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604557)

I got locked out of my vehicle a few months ago. The tow truck driver slid an inflatable plastic bladder in between the window and top of the door. He then pumped in some air, which gave him about a 2" gap that he could easily slide a flexible rod into and hit the unlock button. Took just over a minute, just because he kept missing the unlock button.

Re:That's an improvement... (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 2 years ago | (#40604811)

My 22 year old Cadillac has a telemetry key they costs $US80 to copy.

I'm sure 20 years ago professional car thieves could steel it (I think they brought a new lock, key and matching engine computer). Now the pros won't touch it. Amateurs never could get them.

As the convertible top costs $US1000 I leave the doors unlocked at all times and never leave anything worth steeling in it.

Re:That's an improvement... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604969)

Sorry, hate to be a grammar nazi, but you mean stealing, as in, to take that which is not yours without permission. Steeling would be the process of making steel... This post hurt me to read...

Re:That's an improvement... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604887)

FYI- Cars don't usually have airbags in the door. The side airbags are in the front seats and the side curtain airbags are in the roof.

There's still plenty of things you can mess up inside a door with a poorly-wielded slim jim, but an airbag is not one of them.

Re:That's an improvement... (1)

jellomizer (103300) | about 2 years ago | (#40604915)

Locks on Cars, Homes... Are not the end all be all in Securing your property. They are there to keep the "honest, honest".
You are parked in a parking lot. you have your doors unlocked. Someone who is not really planning a crime, sees your car, attracted to it. Lifts up the handle and gets in. They can take the radio, or whatever, not a big deal. If the door is locked. They don't have the tools to get in without being noticed so they go back to their life.

I had my car broken into. They wanted my (10 year old GPS). My doors were locked. They used a screw driver or a hammer and broke the window and got in. The doors were still locked when I found my car was broken in. The person really wanted to get into my car, so they did.

Being that it will take a hacker 3 minutes to break in. Is really no big deal. If I really wanted to take you car, I can just break the window. Without any expensive electronics.

Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (5, Informative)

DigitalSorceress (156609) | about 2 years ago | (#40604211)

I own a MINI with a keyless entry system ... MINI is made by BMW these days, so I was a bit concerned.

My first vision was "Yikes - someone either grabs my signal out of the air or else they have some 'rainbow box' that tries a bunch of freqs/combos really fast so they can essentially walk up to my car, get in, and go."

Turns out they have to break your window and connect to your OBD port... This sucks, but to my mind, it's not a whole lot of difference between that and breaking the window then hot-wiring the car. ... If they could just walk up and get in and drive away as if they had the valid key, I'd be a lot more concerned. ... checks insurance policy ... at least I've got theft insurance.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (1)

Alex Zepeda (10955) | about 2 years ago | (#40604369)

On the older 3 series (E46) the driver's door lock was super easy to pick because of sloppy tolerances (apparently about 700EUR will buy you the tools you need to do it in a few seconds). Picking the lock is, of course, a lot more subtle than breaking a window... and will typically disarm the alarm too.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604377)

No offense, as I'm sure you love your Mini, but nobody is going to spend 3 minutes trying to steal it. There just isn't enough payout for the effort and risk. A real BMW, however, would be well worth it.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#40604597)

No offense, as I'm sure you love your Mini, but nobody is going to spend 3 minutes trying to steal it. There just isn't enough payout for the effort and risk. A real BMW, however, would be well worth it.

Your comment is either terribly ignorant or designed to cause offense, because the Honda Civic is the most stolen car [msn.com] (and the Accord is #2, down one spot from the last time I looked.) If it's worth stealing a Civic, it's worth stealing a Mini.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604841)

You assume that the sticker price of the car has something to do with it's value when stolen. I'd content that the ability to sell the stolen car or parts are what determines how much it's stolen. The top 3 cars are also very very popular cars, meaning there's a lot of demand for parts, and for the car itself. A mini is both not terribly expensive, and rare.

Unless you have some insider knowledge about why people steal which car, and the value of stolen cars, my theory is just as plausible as yours.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#40605011)

I'd content that the ability to sell the stolen car or parts are what determines how much it's stolen.

Yes, that's right, cars are typically stolen to be broken down into parts.

Unless you have some insider knowledge about why people steal which car, and the value of stolen cars, my theory is just as plausible as yours.

People steal cars when they're easy and when there's a market for used parts. German parts cost more than Japanese parts, so there's actually more incentive to steal those cars, but the Japanese cars are usually staggeringly easy to steal, except sometimes the luxury marques; they don't just add asphalt, they sometimes add an immobilizer, too.

My 1986 IROC was stolen in SF. It was found completely stripped, as in, professionally. They recovered only the body. It wasn't exactly a valuable car when it happened, but the parts are worth money, so away it went.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (2)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40604725)

You're kidding, right? The Mini has far more cars on the road than the higher-end BMWs, so its parts are far more valuable. High-end BMW owners don't buy possibly-stolen parts (like off Ebay or Craigslist), they go to the dealership to get all their service for $$$$. Mini owners are much more likely to do their own work with parts bought on the secondhand market.

This is the same reason that Hondas topped the most-stolen car lists for many, many years; lots of people had them, lots of their owners worked on them (even swapping engines and the like), so the parts were valuable.

What the heck is someone going to do with a stolen $80k BMW anyway? They can't register it and get valid tags. They can't strip it and sell it for parts for the reasons above. They might just joyride in it, but the best they can do is ship it to South America and resell it there. Most cars stolen in this country are stolen for their parts, not to ship to 3rd world countries where there's no law enforcement WRT stolen cars, which is why you never see really high-end cars place very high on the stolen-cars lists.

If you think stealing a Mini "isn't worth it", you're a moron (though honestly, a Honda Civic or these days a Hyundai would be a better choice).

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (1)

LordNimon (85072) | about 2 years ago | (#40604397)

You're paying extra for a security system that's supposed to be better than hot-wiring a car, so I don't understand why you're not concerned.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (1)

shadowrat (1069614) | about 2 years ago | (#40604559)

You're paying extra for a security system that's supposed to be better than hot-wiring a car

I could have sworn you were just paying extra for a name.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 2 years ago | (#40604525)

This sucks, but to my mind, it's not a whole lot of difference between that and breaking the window then hot-wiring the car.

The ECU/ECM controls all engine functions. If it doesn't give the go ahead, your car won't run, no matter how many wires are cut apart or spliced together.

You don't hotwire modern cars.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (2)

citizenr (871508) | about 2 years ago | (#40604643)

This sucks, but to my mind, it's not a whole lot of difference between that and breaking the window then hot-wiring the car.

The ECU/ECM controls all engine functions. If it doesn't give the go ahead, your car won't run, no matter how many wires are cut apart or spliced together.

You don't hotwire modern cars.

You swap car computer and drive off.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605003)

In most vehicles, the ECU & several other parts are coded with the VIN. If the ECU, the ABS system, the Airbag controller, the transmission module, & the body control modules don't agree on the VIN, the engine won't start. Not impossible to swap all of them, or to re-code a new ECU with the correct IDs, just takes more time/money.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (1)

westlake (615356) | about 2 years ago | (#40604549)

Turns out they have to break your window and connect to your OBD port... This sucks, but to my mind, it's not a whole lot of difference between that and breaking the window then hot-wiring the car. ...

True and, in the real world, a lot can happen in three minutes.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (1)

Idbar (1034346) | about 2 years ago | (#40604653)

I checked the video. Am I confused? But they took about 2 minutes to open the freaking car, then they push it out of the driveway. Probably the same time it takes to do that with any other car. So afterwards, they do a bunch of stuff, and they get the car going? Just like... wait... any other stolen car?

I'm not a BMW fan, but this doesn't sound like news. What really pisses me off is that I no different, I drive a Toyota and they charged me $500 for a replacement key, that certainly doesn't seem to add much up to the security.

Re:Not quite as bad as the Summary seems (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604959)

Turns out they have to break your window and connect to your OBD port... This sucks, but to my mind, it's not a whole lot of difference between that and breaking the window then hot-wiring the car. ... If they could just walk up and get in and drive away as if they had the valid key, I'd be a lot more concerned. ... checks insurance policy ... at least I've got theft insurance.

Until they figure out how to bypass the keyless door locks, which has happened with other manufacturers.

fuck off Steve (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604213)

and get back to work, I don't pay you to make stupid ass comments on slashdot.

Computer rooted with physical access, news at 11 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604229)

Looks like they're using the ODB port to gain access to the car's computer. No car computer is going to be secure when you've got low level debug port right next to the hood release.

What? (1)

Oxford_Comma_Lover (1679530) | about 2 years ago | (#40604233)

How is stealing a keyless car possible unless they don't bother to spend a few bucks on implementing a good friend-or-foe system? (Which would be much cheaper then what they charge for an electronic "key")

Re:What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604479)

A friend or foe system would suck, because then you'd always have to go to the dealer to add a key. Better to just do it the same way most cars deal with someone adding a key: set off the alarm.

If you're doing it, your neighbors hate you, but it's okay. If a thief is doing it, you just sleep through it like every other time your alarm goes off.

Seriously, they just need to add a glass break sensor(don't most high end cars have these?) and fix the intrusion sensor blindspot.

Luckily.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604251)

cars with keys are never stolen.

Sounds like the old R series (1)

Pope (17780) | about 2 years ago | (#40604277)

whose ignitions locks were all pretty much the same key. Want someone else's bike? Use your own key and ride away!

Actual Youtube Link (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40604341)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DshK4ZXPU9o

Typical geeks... (5, Insightful)

gatfirls (1315141) | about 2 years ago | (#40604373)

Got the whole OBD hacking figured out but sticking a peice of tape on a camera is a mechanical feat out of their reach.

Re:Typical geeks... (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 2 years ago | (#40604483)

Got the whole OBD hacking figured out but sticking a peice of tape on a camera is a mechanical feat out of their reach.

Well, they'd have to get up on a ladder and heights make their noses bleed!

Re:Typical geeks... (1)

Taibhsear (1286214) | about 2 years ago | (#40605157)

Strange since they touched or blocked each camera at least once. They obviously knew they were there. Which makes me think they might have wanted the owner to know and see what they were doing. Either that or the cameras had some kind of auto-alarm if the signal blacks out for more than a few seconds. /$0.02

Problem and Solution (2)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40604449)

Problem: The OBD-II port, which, by mandate in most countries where it is required, may not have any access controls applied to it, is being used for non-diagnostic purposes

Solution: Use a separate port with some actual securty measures for any functions you aren't legally required to expose via OBD-II

Damn, it took me all of 2 seconds to figure that one out, and I'm not a security expert.

Re:Problem and Solution (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#40604665)

That would require the automakers to have a new tool provisioned, and all the dealers to buy the tool. The tools usually cost the dealers several thousand dollars, because the automakers lack the talent to make their own tool. Or they could just have some decent security before you are allowed to issue any commands you're not required to support by the standard, which would only require a software update to the existing scan tool, which they would distribute to dealers via the internet.

Re:Problem and Solution (1)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40604801)

Then they should do this? You go ahead and tear down my solution and say "but this would work much better", but that doesn't disprove my argument, they could and should be doing *something*.

Re:Problem and Solution (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 2 years ago | (#40605041)

that doesn't disprove my argument, they could and should be doing *something*.

I wasn't trying to disprove your argument, I was explaining to you one reason why they wouldn't want or need to add another port. It's also just something else to break, it has to be located somewhere and they're already having to locate the OBD-II port, etc etc.

Re:Problem and Solution (1)

BronsCon (927697) | about 2 years ago | (#40605107)

It's funny, though, that my 2000 Corolla has a separate diagnostics port, for functions not required to be accessible via OBD-II. It can't have cost *that* much if my $15k car included it; it's not too much to ask on a car going for $80+K.

Re:Problem and Solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605061)

Maybe make this new interface something standard, like, I dunno, a USB port? Heck, you could even have it do double duty and hook it into the stereo so the car can play MP3s from an MP3 player or the like. Still have a marginal increase in cost in parts, but since the parts are so readily available, I don't think it'd be that big of a deal.

The basic design flaw: key recovery... (5, Informative)

nweaver (113078) | about 2 years ago | (#40604595)

The basic design flaw is how key duplication/recovery is handled.

On my motorcycle (a Concours 14 with keyless ignition), to program a new key you need an existing key. The disadvantage is, naturally, if you lose all your keys, you need to replace the computer!

But its better than the alternative. On the BMW, all you need to do is plug into the OOBDII port and tell the computer "Here is the new key". This means if you lose all your keys, you don't have to buy a new computer... But it also means that anyone who can break into the car can create a key and drive off.

Looking at this with a very wrong scale in mind (5, Interesting)

Prikolist (1260608) | about 2 years ago | (#40604771)

A few years there was a great story in Wired about breaking locks. In summary, even the world's most secure locks are not meant to survive more than 10-15 minutes. And it tells the story of a few experts that broke down one of these locks in under a minute. 3 minutes on a car lock? Either the hackers haven't figured out the best way to break in yet or the security is actually amazing. Wired story [wired.com]

Re:Looking at this with a very wrong scale in mind (1)

deadweight (681827) | about 2 years ago | (#40604913)

A flatbed pwns ANY car.

It must be (1)

cvtan (752695) | about 2 years ago | (#40604943)

Of course BMW is using a special security system that is not used by anyone else. Right.

"Blind spot"? (1)

InsaneMosquito (1067380) | about 2 years ago | (#40605049)

I'm not an engineer, nor do I play one on TV, so I'm curious - how does an ultra sonic senor have a blind spot?

The Suckage Of Car Electronics Is High (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40605139)

Every "computer" I've ever encountered in the automotive world is proprietary, ridiculously overpriced to replace, invariably mounted in asinine places, and the manufacturers won't even give you the most basic user manuals for them. If you want to know what the pinouts are for the various modules, you're on your own. Sure, not everyone wants to know that about the system they are driving around or attempts to troubleshoot them, but I do, and if I'm going to pay a lot of money for one, I am also buying the electronics and I want to be able to use them, or in this case, maybe hack a solid state switch into one of the lines of the OOBDII port to patch the flaw myself. Having the manufacturer give me the runaround when I want to know how to get the readings out of the various sensors that I bought is not acceptable. In terms of the obligatory car analogy, the overall situation with automotive electronics sucks so bad that it's like itself.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...