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Windows 8 Mail Leaves Users Pining For the Desktop — or Even Their Phones

Soulskill posted about 2 years ago | from the you've-got-mail dept.

Microsoft 308

jbrodkin writes "The e-mail client in Windows 8 is the shell of a potentially good application — but Microsoft hasn't given it the proper care it deserves. With less than a month before Windows 8 hits RTM, Mail is a mess that doesn't support IMAP, can't connect to servers with self-signed certificates, and lacks basic features like flagging messages for followup. Metro Mail is feature-deficient compared not just to other desktop and tablet apps — it's behind Microsoft's own phone platform. Whether used on a tablet or desktop, this in-depth look concludes that Metro Mail in its current form will have users pining for a real desktop application."

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308 comments

So you're telling me (-1, Redundant)

tehlinux (896034) | about 2 years ago | (#40644385)

people still use email clients!?

Re:So you're telling me (5, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about 2 years ago | (#40644485)

people still use email clients!?

I certainly do. Best way for me to manage my multiple email accounts with multiple servers.

This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.

Re:So you're telling me (3, Funny)

lymond01 (314120) | about 2 years ago | (#40644519)

Like Star Trek, every other number is good. Starting, in Microsoft's case, with X. Or something.

Re:So you're telling me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644585)

So either

TOS
(No TNG) -- ROFL
DS9
Enterprise -- ROFL

or TNG
Voyager -- ROFL
???

Rethink your position :p

Re:So you're telling me (2)

kirbysuperstar (1198939) | about 2 years ago | (#40644643)

That saying is about the movies, not the series.

Re:So you're telling me (5, Informative)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40644873)

It's about the movies, not the series. Please turn in your geek card.

It's not entirely accurate, at least IMO, but it's pretty close:
1) ST:TMP - boring, boring crap
2) Wrath of Khan - probably best ST movie ever, though the bit about a nebula being a short distance from a planet at sublight speed irks me.
3) Search for Spock - underrated IMO, not as good as II and IV but not horrible.
4) Voyage Home - great
5) so horrible that many fans disclaim its existence; William Shatner directed this abomination, but never again directed a major motion picture
6) Undiscovered Country - excellent
7) Generations - big disappointment, though not nearly as bad as ST5
8) First Contact - excellent, great triumph for director Jonathan Frakes (Riker)
9) Insurrection - pretty disappointing, esp. since it was also directed by Frakes and didn't measure up at all to First Contact
10) Nemesis - this is where the trend totally breaks down, because it's even-numbered but it sucked. It had some great visuals and effects (I liked the part about Picard piloting the small Reman ship), but otherwise it was pretty lame. This movie was also a big flop and ended the whole Star Trek movie franchise for a while until it was rebooted with entirely new actors in JJ Abram's movie (and upcoming sequel).

Re:So you're telling me (0)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#40645023)

1) No, it wasn't. It required you to think..so maybe is was boring to you.
2) there is nothing wrong with that. statement in the context of a ST universe.
3) Enjoyable
4) Sucked.
5) Yes, crap
6) fine, but hardly excellent
7) as bad as 5
8) You're kidding me, right? It wasn't only mediocre, it was insulting to the fans.
9) bad as First Contact
10) stinko.

I thing you are letting your predetermined bias of "ONly the even number are good" influence you decision. Calling 8 excellent kind of backs that up.

Re:So you're telling me (4, Informative)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40645087)

You have your opinions, but most Star Trek fans don't share them, as evidenced by reviews and box-office figures. ST1 didn't do that well. ST6 and 8 both did well. ST4 got great reviews and is easily the most popular of all the ST movies.

BTW, there's nothing about watching endless footage of the Enterprise slowly going into a giant cloud, with some wacky 70s sound effects, that "requires you to think". It's just boring.

Re:So you're telling me (1)

fotoguzzi (230256) | about 2 years ago | (#40645135)

Re: ST:TMP: I just remember that the scenes were so dark that you couldn't tell what was going on. When I went, the movie was projected through a dusty window. Not sure if it would have been easier to clean the window or just open up the film camera a couple of stops when they shot the movie.

Re:So you're telling me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644665)

Like Star Trek, every other number is good. Starting, in Microsoft's case, with X. Or something.

KHAAAAAAAN disagrees with this statement and as such hereby unsubscribes to your newsletter!

Re:So you're telling me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644979)

It was the even numbers that were the better ones. Pretty much was valid until Nemesis laughed at it though.

Re:So you're telling me (5, Insightful)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#40644661)

I converted back from web-based shit email (had enough of google's mail, yahoo's mail and all the rest of the big CRAP mail ui's they throw at us) and I went back to thunderbird. have been loving it for the last year or so, now. its great. local typing, no lost stuff, no hangs, no delays, no network-reachability issues or timeouts, no ads, no jscript, no worries about blocking and maintenance.

my life is a whole lot simpler using good old IMAP and local email pulled down.

the cloud can go fuck itself ;) I'm back with local apps and enjoying the speed of my machine and a *stable* UI experience.

Re:So you're telling me (2, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#40644981)

"no lost stuff, no hangs, no delays, no network-reachability issues or timeouts, no ads, no jscript, no worries about blocking and maintenance"
which describes my gmail experience.
With the added bonus I can access it anywhere.

You? you're pretty much a slashdot hipster.

Re:So you're telling me (4, Insightful)

nzac (1822298) | about 2 years ago | (#40644689)

This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.

The thing about vista almost everyone who ended up with, spent money upgrading to 7 because it fixed everything.

Re:So you're telling me (3, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | about 2 years ago | (#40644811)

This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.

The thing about vista almost everyone who ended up with, spent money upgrading to 7 because it fixed everything.

Yep, a Win win for Microsoft.

I'll get me coat.

Re:So you're telling me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40645045)

that and the financial sector... Both are rewarded for failures.

Re:So you're telling me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644821)

Hasta la Vista baby.

Re:So you're telling me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644993)

Windows ME revisited in 3...2..1

Re:So you're telling me (5, Insightful)

FatdogHaiku (978357) | about 2 years ago | (#40645073)

This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.

I agree. Every other roll out MS has done was a money grab. 98 should have been 98SE, ME should have been XP. Vista should have been 7. I have been telling people for a year to avoid 8 until it is 8+ or whatever. Of course they would avoid using "+" on anything because it might bring Google to mind... but if history is any gauge 8 will suck so hard you'll need a CRT to avoid screen puckering.

Re:So you're telling me (1)

wicka_wicka (679279) | about 2 years ago | (#40645145)

This thing has a Vista-rushed-to-market feel about it.

Thanks for being explicitly clear about what you mean. People are continually comparing Windows 8 to Vista in completely insane ways, but this is one example I can agree with. It feels like Microsoft are rushing a lot of what they do these days. I mean, shit, I owned a Zune, I currently own a Windows Phone, and I love both. I think Metro is a great UI and has huge potential on tablets (I tried the beta on my desktop, and while it's surprisingly decent with a mouse/keyboard, I'm still not optimistic). But they really need to make sure it gets the appropriate level of polish before they put it out to market. I'll just sum it up this way: they can't expect to deal with the tablet or desktop market the same way they've dealt with the Windows Phone 7 to 8 transition and expect to have any level of success.

Re:So you're telling me (2)

bmo (77928) | about 2 years ago | (#40644835)

people still use email clients!?

Sure! Why the fuck not?

Google and Yahoo both support IMAP. If I'm not interested in doing it through a shitty Java webmail client, I can fire up T-Bird, Claws, M2, Pine, Alpine, and any other MUA that supports IMAP and get the job done.

It allows me to use real editors, complex filtering, flagging, foldering, archiving, etc. It makes sending encrypted mail a whole heck of a lot easier.

Why aren't you using an IMAP MUA to connect to your webmail?

--
BMO

Ready? Oops! Oh noooooOOOO! (1)

Quakeulf (2650167) | about 2 years ago | (#40644389)

I only use online mail these days, so do all of my coworkers and all of the coworkers at my previous companies too. I guess there is still a niche for this called the public sector.

Re:Ready? Oops! Oh noooooOOOO! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644531)

That's the problem - with gmail being the single largest mail service in the world, followed by various other online mail services, nobody wants to put a lot of energy into legacy mail applications any more. Why go through all the bother of having to set up an app with a bunch of arcane settings people don't understand (*), when you could just go to a web page and be done with it? Then your mail is backed up for you, it is available from any machine you are using at the time, and is right there in a browser tab.

(*) Try walking your grandmother through setting up a local mail prog. Well, Grandma, is the server using STARTTLS, or SSL, or neither? What's the POP3 server name, we need to enter it here. Meh. That's the 1990's way to do email. Life moves on.

Re:Ready? Oops! Oh noooooOOOO! (5, Interesting)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40644901)

with gmail being the single largest mail service in the world,... nobody wants to put a lot of energy into legacy mail applications any more.

Yes, but we're not talking about just anybody, we're talking about Microsoft here. If anyone wanted to pour enormous amounts of money into projects just to hurt Google, it'd be them. I'm surprised they aren't trying harder on this thing. Sure, you might point to their own competing online mail service, Hotmail, but that thing is doing horribly these days. You'd think they'd want to pour resources into anything that competes with Gmail.

Re:Ready? Oops! Oh noooooOOOO! (3, Insightful)

foniksonik (573572) | about 2 years ago | (#40644987)

Uh. Any OS or Mail app worth a damn has smart presets.

OS X Mail.app has Gmail as an account type. Select it and all it asks for is your username and password. Done. It's even part of the OS set up.

You can also pick me.com, hotmail, yahoo, Exchange or Advanced (custom).

At no point are you asked for a server or setting for anything but a user and pass, except with Exchange and Advanced.

Re:Ready? Oops! Oh noooooOOOO! (4, Informative)

couchslug (175151) | about 2 years ago | (#40644535)

I only use online mail, but via Thunderbird so I can ignore the asstastic web pages and don't have to view ads.

Online mail is fine, but better in a conventional format with a portable archive.

Thunderbird Portable rocks for this, and you can copy the whole program folder to DVD for read-only archiving which won't be changed by sync'ing online.

Re:Ready? Oops! Oh noooooOOOO! (1)

foradoxium (2446368) | about 2 years ago | (#40644961)

..who doesn't use adblock??

Have sympathy for poor old Microsoft... (5, Insightful)

busyqth (2566075) | about 2 years ago | (#40644391)

They're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Give Windows 8 users a real email client and cannibalize Outlook/Office sales
Give Windows 8 users a stripped down client and get pilloried in the press and taken to the woodshed by Apple.

Good ol' Microsoft internal politics at its finest.

Re:Have sympathy for poor old Microsoft... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644467)

Outlook is mainly used in the enterprise, so having a mail client at least on the level of Thunderbird would not be stealing sales.

MS should error on the side of too much than too little in this case. Already, there is negative press about the force UI changes, and MS doesn't need another issue that would slow down sales.

Re:Have sympathy for poor old Microsoft... (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40644937)

Outlook is mainly used in the enterprise, so having a mail client at least on the level of Thunderbird would not be stealing sales.

Outlook is used by tons of companies, big and small, and they pay handsomely for the privilege. If they included a free client on the level of Thunderbird, I think it's entirely reasonable to think this would negatively affect the sales of Outlook to many small-to-midsize firms. Of course, however, by not including a free Thunderbird-like client, they may also be losing marketshare to Gmail, as many smaller firms are moving to that.

Re:Have sympathy for poor old Microsoft... (5, Insightful)

Asic Eng (193332) | about 2 years ago | (#40644595)

It seems the user can either install Outlook or get e.g. Thunderbird. How many people use Windows in a business setting and then don't use MS Office? (And when you do that you get Outlook.) So for desktop users I don't see any problems. (Apart from the Metro interface itself that is... I don't think anybody wants that on the desktop.)

Re:Have sympathy for poor old Microsoft... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644765)

Bullshit, Microsoft either supports consumers in what was touted as a bold move into the hardware market, or it proves that it hasn't learned from its own history of similar failures, like Vista compatible systems, Zune or Bing.

Windows 8 is supposed to be the basis of a response to the development of Apple's iPod/iPad/iTunes and Google's Android tablets and phones, all of which caught Mighysoft flat-footed. It's also supposed to emulate Apple's attempt to give a similar look and feel to the lap/desktop, tablet & phone. M$ has a history of playing catchup and making their customers suffer through their rushed attempts.

This article/assessment either makes it easier for MS to claim that the kloodge being pre-reviewed has been improved when it's actually released, no matter what its state, or it indicates a reiteration of the internal failure of the MS culture that's driven by sales & marketing and incapable performing when ordered to innovate as Mr. Balmer claims it will.

But I for one would love provide him with the relish for his crow.

BTW - does this indicate the Microsoft's software development teams are having a hard time porting a standard application to their own newly created OS, or are they truly that focused on becoming a hardware manufacturer that they can't do either one well?

Re:Have sympathy for poor old Microsoft... (2)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#40644787)

I don't see many hardcore Outlook users not wanting the rest of the Office suite. Everyone I've ever met whose a heavy Outlook user either uses Word daily or lives in Excel.

Re:Have sympathy for poor old Microsoft... (2)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#40645085)

That doesn't make sense. A "real email client" was offered for free for a long time now - first Outlook Express, more recently Windows Live Mail - with no worries about "cannibalizing Outlook sales". And if you RTFA, they are actually complaining that the new Metro client isn't on par even with Live Mail feature wise.

Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644403)

it's behind Microsoft's own phone platform

Isn't Windows 8 Microsoft's own phone platform?

Re:Okay (1)

Darkness404 (1287218) | about 2 years ago | (#40644439)

Windows Phone 8 != Windows 8. Windows 8 is referring the successor to Windows 7.

Re:Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644471)

Windows Phone 8 != Windows 8. Windows 8 is referring the successor to Windows 7.

I thought the whole point of Windows 8 was to be a phone OS that also runs on desktops/laptops. Otherwise, what use is Metro aimed at?

Re:Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644511)

Just had a quick youtube look at Windows 8 and that thing isn't going anywhere near a phone I own, let alone a PC.

Re:Okay (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#40645095)

Windows Phone 8 shares the kernel with Windows 8, but otherwise it's still a different OS.

Otherwise, what use is Metro aimed at?

Tablets.

Re:Okay (1)

rjr162 (69736) | about 2 years ago | (#40644565)

I wish that was more of the truth and the metro interface would disappear on the desktop!

Re:Okay (1)

Mike Buddha (10734) | about 2 years ago | (#40644761)

I wish that was more of the truth and the metro interface would disappear on the desktop!

Yeah, me too! I hate everything new, especially things I've never used.

Re:Okay (1)

rjr162 (69736) | about 2 years ago | (#40645159)

ah, but I have used it.. and tested in it A LOT in a VM for both existing apps we have as well as other tests to make sure it what we use will work. I know it's an early release but with our end users (as most are) not very tech savvy I can already see a lot of potential issues.

Personally, I'm pining for the fjords. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644405)

Personally, I'm pining for the fjords. Just saying. You know, as one dead parrot to another.

It's a Richard Stallman & Monty Python referen (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644685)

Sadly, a joke needs explaining isn't funny. Still:
https://secure.mysociety.org/admin/lists/pipermail/developers-public/2011-October/007647.html
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~ebarnes/python/dead-parrot.htm

The "Pets" section has some crazy parrot stuff followed by an "Email" section with... well, read it for yourself.

Now, someone mod the parent up ! It's lvl 9000 Obscurity !!!

Re:It's a Richard Stallman & Monty Python refe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644877)

So the other coward is suggesting that Microsoft is selling Win8 in the same manner a pet store owner will sell a dead bird ? And it's all somehow tied down to the ravings of our ( \. ) favourite programmer \ loon ?

You see, this is how you ruin a joke...

Don't understimate the forbearance of Windows-user (1)

rainer_d (115765) | about 2 years ago | (#40644417)

I'm sure, the large majority will put up even with that. But maybe MSFT will be using some spare change and license Opera.

Pine-ing, eh? (5, Funny)

Phasma Felis (582975) | about 2 years ago | (#40644419)

I see what you did there.

Re:Pine-ing, eh? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644543)

Windows 8 prefers keepin' off self-signed certificates! Remarkable OS, isn't it? Lovely benchmarks!

Please no more Monty Python. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644895)

It's Dead.

Pine pun? (1)

Misanthropy (31291) | about 2 years ago | (#40644425)

Windows 8 mail might make me pine for Pine also.

Tablets are great (5, Insightful)

pegasustonans (589396) | about 2 years ago | (#40644429)

Tablets are great, and an optimized tablet UI can be both intuitive and efficient so long as you're using a fucking tablet.

Seriously... it's like MS is trying to put the umbrella down the chimney up for this one.

Re:Tablets are great (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#40644805)

They admit that's what they are doing. They are trying to drive manufacturers towards using high quality touch screens. They intend for the Windows 8 platform to be tablet + keyboard.

Re:Tablets are great (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#40645103)

They intend for the Windows 8 platform to be tablet + keyboard.

More like tablet + keyboard + precision pointing device (note how Surface has pen with a digitizer, and trackpad - and so do most third-party Win8 convertibles).

So you are telling me (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644431)

That prerelease software isn't finished yet? No fucking way! I'm shocked!

Re:So you are telling me (2)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | about 2 years ago | (#40644865)

You would have a point if the RTM date for Windows 8 wasn't is in 3 weeks.

Re:So you are telling me (1)

foniksonik (573572) | about 2 years ago | (#40645051)

They should release it as a public BETA. That's what Apple did for the first year of OS X 10.0. I fondly remember how incomplete it was but how you could port lots of UNIX apps using X windows easily with a few linking switches in the make file. Nobody used it professionally, everyone loved it (except the printing houses, they had a huge investment in OS9 stuff).

MS could learn from that.

ship it, then finish it (5, Insightful)

v1 (525388) | about 2 years ago | (#40644441)

THIS is one of MS's biggest problems IMHO.

Compare that to some of their competitors that will suddenly toss out a fully functional product, available NOW. Not complete and polished maybe, but at least it works acceptably well just out of the gate, and isn't months away from release.

That crap only works when selling to businesses. If they're going to compete in the private sector they're going to have to get their act straight and get some hustle going.

Semifunctional products scheduled for release months from now won't compete well with products that work that are available today. You'll either enter the market with few available new customers or catch all sorts of bad PR about needing several patches just to get it working as expected/advertised (or both) like the others already in the market already do.

desktop mail client? (0)

Wierdy1024 (902573) | about 2 years ago | (#40644461)

The general public don't use desktop mail clients...

They use webmail.

Geeks use desktop mail clients, and geeks can install their own. I'm surprisedMicrosoft even included a mail client really.

Re:desktop mail client? (1, Informative)

Un pobre guey (593801) | about 2 years ago | (#40644615)

Where do you work? In cubeland, practically everybody has been forced to use MS Outlook for about 20 years or however long it's been around. If their phone can't use Outlook properly, boy, they in a heap o' trouble.

Re:desktop mail client? (1)

Stormtrooper42 (1850242) | about 2 years ago | (#40644679)

I really don't see the problem:
Those who use webmail will continue to use webmail.
Those who use Outlook will continue to use Outlook.

Re:desktop mail client? (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#40644697)

I've been in the silicon valley for the last 25 or so years. not once was I forced to use outlook. I was always allowed to use unix on the desktop (linux, bsd, solaris, even irix) and engineers could choose to use windows/outlook OR use their own workstations email clients if they are unix based.

managers often are forced to use 'all windows' stuff. I'm not one of those guys, though. in my world, we have been given choices, at least if it mattered to you (I used to insist on qmail on my workstation, but lets not go there, shall we? I got over that in short order.)

Re:desktop mail client? (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#40644817)

Huh? My mother, father, brother, wife and daughter all use email clients. Possibly my influence but I've yet to meet anyone who likes webmail over a client once its been setup for them.

Re:desktop mail client? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644923)

Yeah, that's why mail clients came out, after all... you know, mail clients wouldn't have gone anywhere if it weren't for the web apps sucking so bad in the first place.

Oh, wait...

Re:desktop mail client? (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 2 years ago | (#40644969)

agreed.

my first email was on a vax/vms using one of 3: decmail (ha!), vmsmail or all-in-1 mail. mostly it was vmsmail (what you got from a regular vax account with node::username). I used that for about 6 years (while at DEC) and mail in the 80's and 90's was just fine! it worked, it was fast, it was secure and the only real issues were translation of addresses from public to private internets.

fast forward to the 90's and early 2000 era. I was still using ELM or maybe mutt. it worked, it was fast, it was secure and it was on every system that I used, in every company I was at.

finally, fast forward to the web-age and gmail. I had an early adopter gmail acct (in the invite-only days) and I surely gave gmail enough of a chance. I hated it, got burned by it, had to keep up my adblock-element-hider frequently updated by hand (just to get the UI back to where I wanted it after each google 'upgrade'). it was more work than I wanted and got progressively slower and less responsive as the years went on.

now, I've dumped it. went back to local email (using thunderbird and imap from my own paid isp) and things are as good as they were back when email was still young.

email is not really a complicated thing and it does not need 'advancement'. the funct that I used 20+ yrs ago is what I still use today. I could even still be happy with ELM and an xterm ;) the web-based shit just doesn't impress me and has caused me to reject 'the cloud' for email use.

tl;dr: if its not broke, don't re-invent it! 're-writing email systems' has got to the be the stupidest thing you could do, today!

Re:desktop mail client? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644985)

They use webmail.

This. The Slashdot groupthink will deny it, but that's the usage reality on the ground. Last numbers I saw were from a year or two ago, but had something over 70% of all email going through web mail services, by far the biggest of which was gmail. However, ALL email is declining at the rate of 8 to 12% per year, as people move to other services. The decline is fastest among the younger demographic: in the 12-18 age bracket, email use is declining by 24% per year.

Even Thunderbird is scaling back development in the face of web mail. No app you have to install and configure can beat the convenience of just loading a web page, and having your email available anywhere, from any computer, or any phone, at any time, all backed up for you by Google.

The average person doesn't use Outlook or Thunderbird, they use gmail. The use of dedicated mail programs is a niche now - it still exists, but it's overwhelmed by the usage of web mail these days.

Re:desktop mail client? (1)

sqrt(2) (786011) | about 2 years ago | (#40645049)

Almost every Mac user uses Mail.app, and anyone with an iOS device who uses it for e-mail does too, and anyone who works in an office probably uses MS Office including Outlook Mail.

Shame that Mozilla gave up on thunderbird (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644481)

They could of took the opportunity to say don't like your Windows mail client, switch to Thunderbird.

Re:Shame that Mozilla gave up on thunderbird (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about 2 years ago | (#40644613)

Could be a good chance for them to shift back some of their team if by some weird streak of fate, Win8 is actually popular. I mean, it *is* Friday the 13th after all. Weirder shit has happened, like Apple becoming popular again and rising from the grave.

Next thing we know, a temporal vortex will open up and WinMe will be a fantastic OS.

Shame that Mozilla stoped looking for stuff to add (1)

nzac (1822298) | about 2 years ago | (#40644729)

They are still supporting it they just killed the dev team who were adding features that added a little bloat* but failed to increase market-share as TB is still not outlook.

What do you need in a mail client seriously? It has more features than pretty much everything else excluding the exchange stuff.

Re:Shame that Mozilla stoped looking for stuff to (1)

jbolden (176878) | about 2 years ago | (#40644915)

I've use mail.app for compatability and Thunderbird as a secondary client.

1) The encryption stuff should not be such a pain. It should be on and self configure by default.
2) Task manager integrated into calendaring. Preferably allowing for task assignment. If you really want to push workflow (i.e. john should be able to read this hit approve and the email forwards to Suzie automatically with John's approval).
3) Digital signing
4) Labeling / tagging, integrated with gmail for gmail IMAP.
5) Twitter, evernote, linkedin... feeds and uploads
6) Link large files i.e. large files get replaced with links off a webdav and/or dropbox.
7) automatic multiple RE: Fwd reductions
etc..

Re:Shame that Mozilla stoped looking for stuff to (1)

betterunixthanunix (980855) | about 2 years ago | (#40644955)

What do you need in a mail client seriously? It has more features than pretty much everything else excluding the exchange stuff.

These, for starters:

  • Built-in PGP support
  • Built-in anonymous remailer support
  • Built-in uuencode support
  • Built-in support for hashcash
  • Built-in support for syncing with my tablet offline (i.e. without an Internet connection)

Not a "Mail" app, but a hotmail/livemail/xbox app (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644493)

It's obviously been designed for use with Microsoft services and less as a generic mail app. Most people use web based email clients anyway. Desktop email clients seem like an unnecessary complexity nowadays.

I'm sure google will have their own mail tile.

Everyone else? Well, Thunderbird may still have some life in it yet..

Know your strengths (2)

Tablizer (95088) | about 2 years ago | (#40644501)

The only reason people look at Microsoft is to use the desktop software and GUI's they know like the back of their hand. MS is NOT going to be able to compete on technology alone because they are behind that curve. If they can't give you a mobile version that works like the MS desktop and Office, they are hosed.

Developer and PM (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644517)

Developer: Almost done, another day or so!
PM: Great!
Developer: Oh shit, it's going to be another 3 weeks

Quit whinging already (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644525)

At least the tablet will ship with something resembling an email app. Some tablets didn't. Can you believe it?!

There might be a lesson to be learnt. Look what happens to companies that don't ship basic apps with their tablet.

What's the issue? (1)

Haxagon (2454432) | about 2 years ago | (#40644559)

I don't think it's the version going to be included in gold, is it? Besides, who gives a fuck?
It's a god damn Microsoft mail client, if you're at that level, you probably don't need much more than "hurr press button it sends email".

Re:What's the issue? (1)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | about 2 years ago | (#40644869)

How much do you expect them to change in 3 weeks? Or did you miss the fact that RTM was the first week of August?

Re:What's the issue? (1)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#40645153)

What they include in RTM isn't set in stone. It will be updated with all your other apps through the marketplace. But I agree with Haxagon: aren't there 10000 email clients out there? If you don't like the one shipped with your system, use another.

gmail (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644561)

Who cares about the Windows mail program? Just use gmail, and forget about that shit.

Who really cares, though? (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 2 years ago | (#40644581)

With even Microsoft's own Outlook trying to migrate to online/cloud/browser-based solutions, who even cares about stand-alone email clients at this point? This program isn't intended for much more than checking your AOL email; even my POP-only ISP email account has more/better functionality through the web interface.

Don't forget that Vista's mail client was deprecated practically from day one, and 7 didn't even ship with an email client.

Shooting of their own feet (1)

Un pobre guey (593801) | about 2 years ago | (#40644583)

Whelp, there goes a big toe...

Re:Shooting of their own feet (2)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 2 years ago | (#40644667)

Whelp, there goes a big toe...

A corporation without leaders is like a foot without a big toe. And Steve Ballmer isn't always gonna be here to be that big toe for us. I think that we owe a big round of applause to our newest, bestest buddy, and big toe... Steve Ballmer.

Re:Shooting of their own feet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644907)

Guy kind of looks like a toe.

windows 8 mail client (2)

chentiangemalc (1710624) | about 2 years ago | (#40644653)

I've been using the Windows 8 mail client instead of outlook on my MacBook Air with my exchange email for a few weeks and mostly like it. It reads mail/sends mail, is bloody fast, never hangs or slows down. That being said 1) it's a beta product 2) it does have the option to provide feedback to Microsoft within the app It is short on some features, I await final release to pass final judgement.

Shocking! (1)

MetaDragon (2098352) | about 2 years ago | (#40644693)

A free e-mail client from a for profit company doesn't support every feature that users could want?! Why does everybody think they should get first class quality software for free these days?

Re:Shocking! (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 2 years ago | (#40644911)

Maybe because the paid for it and it was not free?
I'm not sure why you think windows 8 is free.

Re:Shocking! (-1, Flamebait)

oakgrove (845019) | about 2 years ago | (#40644931)

Shut up, faggot.

No IMAP? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644703)

Doesn't support IMAP? Whaaaaaa? How in the hell can they forget that?

Designer: "Hey boss! We finished the new model of sedan for next week's unveiling!"
Boss: "Great! Show me!"
Designer: "It's got a great interior, class leading power, even cheaper than the competition! And the milage? It's great!"
Boss: "That's awesome news! Hey, where's the steering wheel?"
Designer: "Steering wheel? Wait, the car's supposed to turn?"
Boss: "...uh, yeah. They all do that. And kind of need to."
Designer: "...crap! I knew we forgot something!"

Re:No IMAP? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644735)

MS programmers are familiar with IMAP and so naturally opt for POP3.

vs Apple (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644713)

who ships a smart phone without MMS support and is praised as an "innovator".

It really does suck (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 2 years ago | (#40644763)

I am not the only one who has noticed it.

Basically you do not need METRO at all to experience. Go open IE and then do fullscreen at www.hotmail.com and that is it. It is not even an app more than a container. The news app sucks on Metro as well but not quite as badly.

It really is bare knuckles with fullscreen IE 10 instances. iOS got it right with its version of apps having toolbars, tabs, and other features. The safari for my dad's ipad is identical to the desktop version except for a few menu items.

Re:It really does suck (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 2 years ago | (#40645113)

The safari for my dad's ipad is identical to the desktop version except for a few menu items.

Try opening more than 10 tabs in it.

Outlook Express (1)

rueger (210566) | about 2 years ago | (#40644783)

Reality Check - however much we may love our various e-mail tools (I'm a g-mail man myself, 'cause it works well with my Linux box and my Android phone) Joe Average user is in a different camp.

They don't want to change e-mail clients every year or two. I'd love to know how many Outlook Express installs are still out there. For many, many people it has been Good Enough for - ten years? Especially for the millions still using Windows XP.

I recently moved my Girlfriend from OE to Windows Live Mail (that is, the desktop version of Windows Live E-mail, not the web version) and have to say that it was not an easy transition. After that experience I'd think long and hard before moving to another MS client.

(Always found Outlook more irritating than useful, but that's my taste. Fondly remember Pegasus Mail when it was the pinnacle of e-mail clients.)

Re:Outlook Express (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644847)

Outlook Express is a pain to move from, but Windows Live is not as much so.

Of course, Outlook Express is very very very old.

Re:Outlook Express (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40644997)

Live Mail is Outlook Express with a ribbon interface, and a useless search. No other difference.

the real question here is... (1)

logicassasin (318009) | about 2 years ago | (#40644903)

... Did Microsoft ever get around to fixing the "begin xxxx.xxx.scr/exe/whatever" bug in their basic email client?

See when I open it.. (1)

Severus Snape (2376318) | about 2 years ago | (#40644951)

It says "APP PREVIEW"

What a stupid article.

Summy wrong, it does use IMAP (4, Informative)

cryptizard (2629853) | about 2 years ago | (#40644963)

It only lets you set up accounts for Exchange, Hotmail and Gmail right now, but it definitely does support IMAP. If you add a Gmail account to it and then disable POP retrieval it still works. Disable IMAP and it suddenly doesn't. I imagine they will add the option for arbitrary servers before it gets released, but even if they don't it will satisfy 98% of the people that use it (those without Outlook and who don't know what Thunderbird is).

Re:Summy wrong, it does use IMAP (5, Insightful)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 2 years ago | (#40645169)

It only lets you set up accounts for Exchange, Hotmail and Gmail right now, but it definitely does support IMAP.

No, it supports Exchange, Hotmail and Gmail. If you tell me "supports IMAP" I'd better be able to point it at my IMAP server and have it work or you're a goddamn liar.

You've got to be kidding me.... (1)

erp_consultant (2614861) | about 2 years ago | (#40645121)

This comes on the heels of Ballmer saying that Microsoft will no longer allow Apple to out innovate them? A mail client that doesn't even support IMAP? Apple's Mail application isn't the best but at least you can connect to Exchange servers and connect to Gmail over SSL. So do any number of Linux based mail systems. I like having a desktop client to cobble together my gmail, yahoo and corporate mail all in the one box. I suspect that a lot of others do too. They have to get this fixed. I want MS to succeed, I really do, but it's gaffes like this that have Windows ME and Vista written all over it. Although we should all know better by now. MS has a history of unfulfilled promises when it comes to operating systems so it should come as no surprise. I think Metro can work on a tablet. I've seen it on phones and it looks pretty cool. But for the desktop? I've got grave reservations and without even a proper email client it's dead in the water as far as I'm concerned.
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