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363 comments

Subsidized price (5, Insightful)

Google Fanboy (2685769) | about 2 years ago | (#40669291)

Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract. God americans are stupid if they still go for this marketing trick. Even Slashdot runs bullshit story like this!!

On top of that Nokia is trying to capture US market, so they can spend more on it while they generate revenue from rest of the world.

Re:Subsidized price (5, Funny)

AgNO3 (878843) | about 2 years ago | (#40669321)

Stop using logic, reasoning, and a basic understanding of marketing to confuse the issue. This is slashdot.

Re:Subsidized price (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669355)

I'm shooting farts out of my own asshole at exponential rates!

Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (3, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 2 years ago | (#40669497)

No matter how you feel about the late Mr. Steve Jobs, that guy was a real asset to Apple, Inc.

The marketing department of Apple, Inc. did not need to "sell" their wares as much as their peers in other companies (like Nokia or RIM, for example), as Mr. Jobs himself had done most of the selling.

There is a double whammy for Nokia, though

By abandoning all their previous phone OSes, and blindly adopted the Microsoft Windows as their one-and-only OS, many Nokia users - even those who had used Nokia for many years - had started looking at offerings from competing brands - from Apple, to Samsung, to (at a lesser degree), RIM.

Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669587)

If what you say is true, then why is the rate that I'm shooting farts out of my own asshole increasing as we speak?

Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (5, Informative)

Google Fanboy (2685769) | about 2 years ago | (#40669619)

Uh, Nokia haven't abandoned their other OSs. They're still selling Symbian, dumb and Linux phones.

Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (4, Funny)

kelemvor4 (1980226) | about 2 years ago | (#40669719)

Uh, Nokia haven't abandoned their other OSs. They're still selling Symbian, dumb and Linux phones.

Never end a completely uninformed argument with the facts. It's just not nice.

Re:Unfortunately, Nokia has no Steve Jobs (5, Informative)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 2 years ago | (#40669859)

They have been officially in process of abandoning symbian since 2011 or so, and it will officially end in total abandonment in 2016. In reality, symbian has been largely abandoned marketing wise back in 2011 along with the catastrophic "platform burning" memo which made sales go from "increasing by about 5% yearly" to "total collapse" overnight.

Linux smartphone is 100% abandoned. Meego has been abandoned before N9 was even properly out, with team developing it long disbanded. N9 is no longer manufactured and they're just selling the rest of the stock. There has been virtually no marketing push behind N9 either. Fun trivia: it still outsold all lumia phones to date.

Dumb phones are still going, but how long they will last is anyone's guess. Elop has finally gotten around to axing meltemi dev team (linux based dumbphone OS), which means that nokia essentially has no OS for dumbphones past 2016, when it's supposed to fully abandon symbian. WP is unsuitable for dumbphones due to both hardware requirements and software pricing, and Elop's clear main goal is to make nokia into a 100% WP OEM and nothing more. That makes dumbphone division future into a very big question mark.

Re:Subsidized price (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669357)

in europe we make it a sport not to buy any product that advertises too much, like nokia did in europe :D
it doesn't work on us anymore.

Re:Subsidized price (3, Interesting)

spiffmastercow (1001386) | about 2 years ago | (#40670027)

in europe we make it a sport not to buy any product that advertises too much, like nokia did in europe :D it doesn't work on us anymore.

Then what's with all the Heineken-only bars everywhere? I had to go kinda far out of the way to get a good beer when I was there (this was in France, Belgium, and the Netherlands)

Re:Subsidized price (3, Interesting)

fullback (968784) | about 2 years ago | (#40669359)

Unfortunately, the stupidity actually is real, painful, intense and relentless. It's boundless, infinite and beyond the realm of understanding. It burns.

Re:Subsidized price (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669485)

Er, would it make you feel any better if the summary said it costs 450 dollars to make people pay the upfront cost of $49 for a Nokia Lumia? The point still stands. Windows Phone 7 is a failure. People have been calling it since the beginning yet the fanboys kept saying wait 'til NoDo, wait 'til mango, wait 'til Nokia, wait 'til Lumia 900, blah blah blah. It failed. Accept it. And it failed for quite a few reasons. Here, I'll list them. All of them.

OS LIMITATIONS

1. No true multitasking for 3rd party apps - they re frozen in the background.

2. No Divx/Xvid video codec support. Zune will convert with loss of quality.

3. No mass storage mode.

4. No micro-SD card support.

5. Only support up to 16GB storage .

6. No filemanager. Directory system is totally opaque.

7. Need Zune to transfer files. Zune will only transfer photos, videos & music. All other files need to email/upload to yourself.

8. Your contact details are automatically uploaded to cloud service whether you like it or not.

9. Limited to 800x480 resolution.

10. Voice search is hardwired to Bing.

11. Cannot use any MP3 file as ringtone except those with strict constraints.

12. Cannot set static IP address so no connection to ad-hoc networks.

13. No VPN support for this âoecorporate enterpriseâ phone.

14. Cannot sync directly with Outlook without syncing to Cloud

15. Totally closed OS, cannot sideload apps outside MS Marketplace.

16. System font size cannot be changed.

17. Images and photos cannot be renamed in the phone.

18. Windows Live ID account cannot change country once set.

19. No centralized notification page.

20. Alarm clock cannot work when phone is turned off. All Nokia Symbian and Meego phones can do this.

21. The idle screen is completely blank and cannot display time or notifications.

22. Only photos allowed as email attachments, documents not allowed.

23. No way to stream audio to the majority of car audio systems as the most common Bluetooth rSAP profile is not implemented.

24. Cannot stream audio from video playback to Bluetooth devices as A2DP profile is not implemented.

25. No support for full on-device encryption required for secure applications like mobile banking and online payment.

26. Cannot use Bluetooth keyboard (no HID profile)

27. Cannot silence ringtone or alarm by flipping the phone.

28. Very limited customization option.

29. Cannot be upgraded to WP8 (Apollo)

USABILITY ISSUES

30. No always visible status bar for battery life, signal strength, carrier ID, 2G/3G wi-fi, Bluetooth on.

31. Taskmanager has no option to shut down apps you donâ(TM)t want running in the background.

32. Search and Back button cannot be de-activated in apps or games and easily touched by accident which interrupt your user experience.

33. Lockscreen need to be activated to show missed call/sms notification.

34. No way to close an app except pressing back button all the way to the first screen.

35. Tiny fonts in messages is very hard to read for those over 45.

36. Cannot create and save playlists on the phone.

37. Playlist can only be edited when you are playing it.

38. Cannot search your music collection on the phone, only in the Marketplace.

39. Cannot close music player, can only pause. Music player on lockscreen will stay until you reboot. Be careful not to touch it in a meeting.

40. No draggable progress bar for current track playing and no indication which track in an album is currently playing

41. Cannot lock screen orientation.

42. Online and phone contacts are mixed together with no ability to filter.

43. Search button in dialer does not search contacts for dialing, but search call history.

44. Cannot save draft sms messages.

45. Call history only show phone number type. If a contact has multiple phone nos. for a type the number used is unknown.

46. Cannot recognize phone numbers in sms or email to save or use as calling number.

47. Text messages can only be deleted one by one or the whole thread.

48. Cannot select multiple pictures for deleting, sending or uploading. They must be done one at a time.

49. No way to see photo details - dimension, date/time taken, file size, etc

50. Apps are listed alphabetically with no way to group by category. Can be hard to find if you donâ(TM)t remember the name.

51. Calendar scheduler has no weekly view and monthly view is non-zoomable.

52. No peak time/off-peak time scheduling for email downloads to prevent unnecessary email downloads at overnight.

53. If both wi-fi and data connection are available which one it chooses to use is unpredictable. User experiences donâ(TM)t agree with Microsoft that it âoetypicallyâ choose wi-fi over 3G.

FEATURE LIMITATIONS

54. No live wallpaper, no widgets, no themes

55. No haptic feedback for keyboard.

56. No Swype.

57. No flashplayer support.

58. No support for Java apps.

59. No call recording or app to do it.

60. No call blocking or app to do it.

61. No screenshots or app to do it.

62. No auto wallpaper changer and no app to do it.

63. Totally locked down os means apps which interact directly with hardware not allowed. This excludes a whole range of useful apps

64. No equalizer for Zune music player.

65. No data traffic counter and no app to do it.

66. IE browser has no text reflow, no download capability and no offline reading.

67. No 3rd party browsers allowed except those based on IE.

68. Volume up/down buttons cannot be used to zoom in camera (sign of an immature os)

69. Cannot open zip or rar files received as email attachment.

70. Cannot send or receive video by MMS.

71. Office Mobile has much less features than 3rd party Office editors like SmartOffice, QuickOffice and Polaris. Shame on you, Microsoft!

72. No native Google maps and Bing maps is useless for most countries outside U.S.

73. Email time stamp does not show the year.

74. Wide difference in apps availability in different markets and users locked to one market.

75. Not all Bing features available outside U.S. especially Local Scout

DUMB AND DUMBER

76. One volume control for all functions including media playback, ringtones, alarms, notifications.

77. Wi-fi disconnects when screen sleeps. If 3G is available background updates will use 3G and use up your data plan.

78. If you receive a text message when talking on the phone an audio alert will blast your ear at the full volume set. All other phones will give a soft beep.

79. Can only enter one mobile phone no. for each contact. Mobile nos. entered in other fields will not accept sms.

80. Cannot send/receive MMS without enabling 3G data connection. MMS does not use 3G data.

81. Phone cannot be charged when off.

82. Need to be plugged in to wall charger to sync wirelessly (a funny definition of wireless).

83. Oversized fonts for headings waste screen space and result in low information density

84. Phone will wake up and display sms content on lockscreen when locked â" a privacy violation.

85. Phone can be rebooted without entering security code.

FEATURES EVEN DUMB PHONES HAVE BUT WP7.5 DOESNâ(TM)T

86. No bluetooth file transfer.

87. Cannot handle USSD codes necessary for prepaid users to obtain services.

88. Cannot filter call history into Missed Calls, Received Calls, Dialled Calls, Recent Calls, etc

89. No way to backup or export call history

90. Cannot show call duration in call history.

91. No way to edit MMS profile to work with a carrier in the OS. Need an app which is not available in all markets.

92. Call history does not group calls by contact.

93. Call history does not show the time of call for calls older than current day.

94. Cannot set custom sounds for different types of notifications.

95. No ringer profiles.

96. No silent option (no vibrate and no ring) from ringer menu. Need a trip to settings and another trip to revert.

97. Cannot send/receive contact as a csv file.

98. Cannot backup your contacts or sms to PC.

99. Cannot save contact to SIM card.

100. Cannot change alarm ring tone or use a MP3 file.

101. Cannot set alarm snooze interval.

BONUS SHORTCOMINGS

102. Unable to read long names in audio and video playlist as they get cut off

103. Zune does not allow user to add or update podcasts directly from the phone

104. Zune can only be installed if you have an internet connection

105. Alarm does not revert to speaker if headphones are plugged in.

106. Forwarded emails cannot be edited

107. OS does not reduce volume of text message alerts when using headphones

108. Generally force users to use IE, Bing and SkyDrive by shutting out competitors or tying OS features to them.

109. Wifi- hotspot and internet tethering not integral features in the OS but need to be provided by manufacturer on a case by case basis.

110. Internet Explorer has no forward button for page views.

111. Mobile Office cannot edit Office 97-2003 documents which competing Office editors and WP7 can. Typical Microsoft strategy to force users to upgrade.

112. Embedded images in emails do not download

113. Bing maps need to tap to get voice direction for next turn.

114. No Silverlight support.

115. Compass gives wrong reading in the Southern hemisphere due to bad API in the OS.

116. 3rd party apps cannot put notifications on the lockscreen

117. Cannot be charged up when battery is completely dead. (Lumia specific)

118. No support for lossless audio format like FLAC and WMA lossless

119. No HDMI output (Lumia specific).

120. No data usage monitor and no app to do it.

121. No over the air (OTA) firmware upgrade. All upgrades must be via PC installed Zune.

Re:Subsidized price (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669543)

I've seen this list before. Half of them are not true, the other half are fixed with Windows Phone 8.

Re:Subsidized price (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669597)

Actually, they are all true. Furthermore, the GP was obviously specifically referring to Windows Phone 7 which is what the article is about. Please try to keep up.

Re:Subsidized price (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669679)

That's fine then, i'll just wait until I can upgrade my Lumia to Windows Phone 8 ...

Oh, wait ...

Re:Subsidized price (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669749)

I've seen this list before. Half of them are not true, the other half are fixed with Windows Phone 8.

And a goodly number of them are actually true about the iPhone / many android phones too.

Re:Subsidized price (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669953)

No, they're not.

Re:Subsidized price (0)

RightSaidFred99 (874576) | about 2 years ago | (#40669589)

Repetitive shill is repetitive...and shilly.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669657)

So, on a scale of 1 to 10, how likely would you say that on Slashdot the word "shill" can pretty much always be interpreted as "person who says things that make me uncomfortable and which I have no legitimate rebuttal"?

P.S. Pull the tinfoil tighter.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

Imazalil (553163) | about 2 years ago | (#40669663)

Hahahah.... I know this list is a joke, but come-the-fuck-on Flash on mobile is dead, just get over it.

Re:Subsidized price (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669693)

If the list is a joke as you say then you shouldn't have any problem rebutting it. All I see is instead of a rebuttal, you make a lame excuse for why one of the points in particular is actually true. Makes me wonder how many more of the "jokes" are true as well. The deafening sound of crickets make me think quite a lot of them. I considered buying a Lumia 900 since they are practically giving them away now but after reading this, no freaking way and I'll be sure to steer my friends far away too.

Re:Subsidized price (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669667)

122. If S60+M[ae]e[mG]o strategy was a "burning platform" ... This platform is RADIOACTIVE, ON FIRE, and EXPLODING, bitchez!

Elop stood on the burning deck, whence all but he had fled.
The flame that lit Nokia's wreck shone round him o'er the dead.

Yet horrible and grim he stood, as born to rule the storm;
A creature of demonic blood, a proud, though troll-like form.

The flames rolled on – he would not go without his Ballmer's word;
That Ballmer, in Redmond below, his voice no longer heard.

He called aloud "Say, Ballmer, say if yet my task is done?"
He knew not that the stock-price lay yet twice the buyout one.

(Okay, that last line descended to junior-high love-poem level of suck; I'll quit before it gets worse.)
Seriously, just how much farther can MS possibly need to ruin Nokia before they buy them out and give Elop his bonus?

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669951)

Gotta love butthurt WinPhone fanboys with mod-points.
Or was it a butthurt poet with mod-points?
Anyway, butthurtery+modpoints = hilarity!

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669753)

All these bugs would be fixed very fast if only inputted into a bu(g)zilla.

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Gadget_Guy (627405) | about 2 years ago | (#40669781)

That's a nice list. It is silly how many people will happily claim that <MACKAY>Windows Phone is bad</MACKAY> without being able to name a single thing that it does wrong.

It is interesting how many of those complaints also applied to the iPhone (or at least, early versions of it). I read the first ten items on the list and then skipped to the end to see what I thought was going to be the inevitable s/Zune/iTunes/ line. It seemed like such an obvious setup for the joke. Mind you, there were a number of bizzare problems on that list that even Apple wouldn't get wrong. The compass being wrong in the Southern Hemisphere was funny (#115).

Re:Subsidized price (4, Interesting)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about 2 years ago | (#40669855)

What's *really* weird is that the iPhone has some of those same limitations and yet it is wildly successful ...

I wonder what the key differences are ?

(I already have an idea, just curious what the /. crowd thinks...)

Re:Subsidized price (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669867)

IPhone has first mover advantage. Windows phone is a me-too product. Also, people don't like Metro.

Re:Subsidized price (3, Insightful)

Missing.Matter (1845576) | about 2 years ago | (#40669931)

This list is often posted and rated +5 instantly, but there are many items in here which are just flat out false or opinions. The rest are true of either iPhone or Android. Here is my list I've compiled.


5. Only support up to 16GB storage (Dell Venue Pro comes in up to 32GB, you can put a 32GB uSD card in most of the HTC ones if you open them up, the Samsung Focus can reach 40 with an added 32GB card).
8. Your contact details are automatically uploaded to cloud service whether you like it or not. (You don't have to use this. The phone loses functionality if you don't, but it is optional.)
22. Only photos allowed as email attachments, documents not allowed. (Flat out false)
24. Cannot stream audio from video playback to Bluetooth devices as A2DP profile is not implemented. (A2DP is definitely supported, but using it with video is not because many A2DP receivers [most notably, as found in cars, contrary to the claim of #23] add significant lag that makes the video and audio end up out of sync
27. Cannot silence ringtone or alarm by flipping the phone. (False, HTC titan does this)
Opinion - 28. Very limited customization option.
33. Lockscreen need to be activated to show missed call/sms notification. (False this is right on the lockscreen)
35. Tiny fonts in messages is very hard to read for those over 45 (Ppinion, not objective)
36. Cannot create and save playlists on the phone. (Flat out false)
39. Cannot close music player, can only pause. Music player on lockscreen will stay until you reboot. Be careful not to touch it in a meeting. (This *is* stupid, but there's a free app explicitly to clear the currently-playing list.)
42. Online and phone contacts are mixed together with no ability to filter. (False)
46. Cannot recognize phone numbers in sms or email to save or use as calling number. (Quite simply flat-out false.)
50. Apps are listed alphabetically with no way to group by category. (False, apps are grouped by category in hubs)
61. No screenshots or app to do it. (There is an app. I don't think it's in the Marketplace yet, but it's been around homebrew sites for ages and is being submitted.)
69. Cannot open zip or rar files received as email attachment. (Total lie where ZIP is concerned; I do this all the time.)
72. No native Google maps and Bing maps is useless for most countries outside U.S. (Depends how you define "most" but it worked for me in Thailand, for example.)
80. Cannot send/receive MMS without enabling 3G data connection. MMS does not use 3G data (Lie; MMS does use exactly the same service as "normal" data including 3G. The carrier just bills it differently.)
81. Phone cannot be charged when off. (Misleading; phone turns on when plugged in.)
83. Oversized fonts for headings waste screen space and result in low information density (Pure opinion)
85. Phone can be rebooted without entering security code (this can easily be done to any phone.)
93. Call history does not show the time of call for calls older than current day. (False)
94. Cannot set custom sounds for different types of notifications. (False)
100. Cannot change alarm ring tone (False)
103. Zune does not allow user to add or update podcasts directly from the phone (False)
105. Alarm does not revert to speaker if headphones are plugged in. (False)
109. Wifi- hotspot and internet tethering not integral features in the OS but need to be provided by manufacturer on a case by case basis (False)
112. Embedded images in emails do not download (False)
117. Cannot be charged up when battery is completely dead. (False)
119. No HDMI output (False)
121. No over the air (OTA) firmware upgrade. All upgrades must be via PC installed Zune. (The OS is capable of it. MS hasn't used this because they want to be able to recover the phone in the case of a problem mid-update.)

As for the OS being a failure, that depends on how you want to measure it I guess. It hasn't gained great marketshare in the past 2 years true, but these kinds of platforms that rely on a diverse ecosystem are very momentem sensitive. Android and Apple have it now, but Windows Phone is certainly growing in terms of developer support, app count, and user support both in the US and abroad. Further, Windows Phone 8 erases most of the rest of the complaints you put forth, leaving not much left to complain about aside from fundamental platform differences like "openness" of the app marketplace and OS source.

Re:Subsidized price (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669991)

You are either a class A shill or you don't even own a Windows Phone at all. Most of what you are saying is false is actually true and a lot of your other points are just making excuses for what the OP is criticising. That's weak sauce and if you actually give a shit about windows phone, maybe you should face the facts of its shortcomings instead of trying to lie your way through.

Disclaimer: HD7 owner.

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40670019)

114. No Silverlight support.

The whole interface is actually based on Silverlight, so I'm not sure what you mean here.

As for no Flash and no Java, these problems exist with the iPhone as well.

I am very disappointed by the lack of mass storage and file transfer capabilities however as well as the general closed nature of the OS, although this last problem definitely applies to iOS as well.

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40670029)

57. No flashplayer support.

Is that really something to complain about to Nokia or Microsoft? I thought it was Adobe the one saying that it wanted to move out from the mobile flash player world.

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669537)

On At&t, you don't get a discount for bringing your own device like you do on T-Mobile so that $49 vs. $199 dollars on some other phone is a real 150 dollar difference and that matters. The fact that they have to spend $450 to just sell a phone for over $100 less than comparable Android phones stinks of pathetic failure no matter how you try to spin it.

BTW, you aren't fooling anybody with your latest shill account, dude. Whatever happened to the golden TechLA/TechNY/Insight140bytes/etc. oldies? Those usernames were much more inventive.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

Thruen (753567) | about 2 years ago | (#40669547)

While it's true your monthly fee is why they subsidize cost, your monthly fee isn't going to go down based on what phone you buy or even if you bring your own. So because the monthly bill is fixed based on the service you want and not the phone you want, the cost of the phone to the customer is actually $49. You can argue that subsidized pricing is one reason behind paying so much for cell service, but it's not like they'd charge less even if they did charge full price for a phone.

Re:Subsidized price (5, Informative)

Thruen (753567) | about 2 years ago | (#40669575)

Addendum: T-Mobile will offer a lower price if you bring your own phone. The carriers that matter still don't though.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

jaymz666 (34050) | about 2 years ago | (#40669783)

except you can take a lot of phones to an off-brand prepaid plan and save a lot of money...

Re:Subsidized price (4, Interesting)

Antonovich (1354565) | about 2 years ago | (#40670085)

In the US. Here in France we now have competition. You know, that thing you are supposed to have in a free market? Before the three incumbents happily fixed prices and had to pay massive fines - not enough to get them to stop though. Now a fourth player (Free) has entered and true to their history, they have completely turned the market on its head. Overnight you got 20€/month contracts (unlimited national calling and to landlines in 40 countries, 3GB data with no usage restrictions - yes that means torrents! NO minimum period, 16€ if you get it with quad-play) with no phone supplied. Want a nice phone but can't afford to shell out 400-700€ in one go right now? Fine, get a 20€/month contract, put down 100-150€, and pay the rest per month over 12, 24 or 36 months (not everyone offers all options but most offer a few). It's completely honest - if you want to change provider that's fine, you just need to finish paying your interest-free loan in a lump sum. The other operators now offer similar deals - they had to. Say what you like about consumerist capitalism - if you want cheap, high quality communications then you need a truly free market and it will happen!

Re:Subsidized price (1)

whoever57 (658626) | about 2 years ago | (#40669645)

Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract. God americans are stupid if they still go for this marketing trick. Even Slashdot runs bullshit story like this!!

You are still wrong. The costs are $450 (the advertising cost) plus the handset subsidy. AT&T pays more than $49 per handset to buy from Nokia.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

Google Fanboy (2685769) | about 2 years ago | (#40669729)

The costs are $450 (the advertising cost) plus the handset subsidy.

Oh my god head hurts because of stupidity.

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669989)

Oh my god head hurts because of stupidity.

Then perhaps you should try a course in critical thinking, or stop conversing with people whose intelligence is so far outside your range.

There's nothing wrong with being a Microsoft drone. Embrace your inherent dullness, and you won't be plagued by the headache of trying to keep up with the rest of us.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#40669669)

I've not seen one reason yet to suggest to anyone that they buy a Windows OS phone over any other, but if I were so inclined what selling points would you suggest? And by the way, forget Nokia. They decided to bite the dust when they elected to get in bed with devil who wants to infect the lives of every being on the planet by requiring their software be used to do anything useful.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

GaratNW (978516) | about 2 years ago | (#40669751)

Exactly.

In other news, random product that is way in the back spends lots of money on marketing to try and get notice pulled from the dominant product. What will they think of next?!

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669801)

Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract. God americans are stupid if they still go for this marketing trick. Even Slashdot runs bullshit story like this!!

On top of that Nokia is trying to capture US market, so they can spend more on it while they generate revenue from rest of the world.

Spot on. The real costs:
iPhone 4s: $1,640 to $2,600 depending on plan
Samsung Galaxy S II: $1,540 to $2,500 depending on plan (4-6% less)
Nokia Lumia 900: $1,490 to $2,450 depending on plan (5-9% less)
In the grand scheme of things, they're all about the same price.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 2 years ago | (#40669825)

Nokia Lumia does not cost $49 to customers. It costs (and makes profit of) $49 + whatever mobile operators make during the two year contract.

Then again, TFA only talks about the costs and profits for Nokia, so what customers pay mobile operators is irrelevant in this case.

On top of that Nokia is trying to capture US market, so they can spend more on it while they generate revenue from rest of the world.

You assume Nokia is succesfull enough outside the US to cover these expenses. I live in the Netherlands and see iPhones, HTC's and Samsung Galaxy's all around me. Despite ads on TV every single hour of the day, I've never seen a Lumia used in real life. Obviously one sample isn't representative, but if they were to cover the 10:1 ratio in the US, you'd expect it would much more popular. In fact, it'd have to be so popular as to not really have to bother with the US market at all, like they did back in their hay day.

Re:Subsidized price (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669865)

Then again, TFA only talks about the costs and profits for Nokia

Indeed, and Nokia profits from the > $500 price that the mobile operators pay for each Lumina phone.

Ignore the $49: it means nothing.

Re:Subsidized price (1)

ChunderDownunder (709234) | about 2 years ago | (#40669895)

The cheapest discount price online in Australia currently is around $AU469 for an unlocked Lumia 900. Or $10 a month on a $30 plan from Optus - for the equivalent of a $20 a month BYO phone plan.

So the true cost of the phone to the consumer is in the same ball park as the $450!

I've got a better idea. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669349)

How about they give me $400 directly and then I'll pay the $49 for the Lumia.

They've saved $50!

Re:I've got a better idea. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669491)

We lose money on every sale, but we'll make up for it in volume!

Re:I've got a better idea. (4, Funny)

jd2112 (1535857) | about 2 years ago | (#40669631)

We lose money on every sale, but we'll make up for it in volume!

What volume? I think I've only seen a couple of Windows phones outside of a mobile phone store. One was owned by a Microsoft employee and the other 'won' it in a Microsoft developer conference.

Re:I've got a better idea. (1)

sconeu (64226) | about 2 years ago | (#40669721)

But that cute chick sitting next to you will notice your phone when you shove it under her nose and run your kayaking video.

Re:I've got a better idea. (2)

Riceballsan (816702) | about 2 years ago | (#40669835)

Well I hate to break it to you, but they will likely profit from that, as you aren't buying the phone alone but the $49 for the phone plus oh lets go on the light end and assume $40 a month for 2 years for the service contract you lock yourself into with the phone, thus you still have paid the carrier $960, so they are still at a $610 profit.

I Wish (3, Insightful)

Zamphatta (1760346) | about 2 years ago | (#40669373)

I wish a Nokia costed just $49 and nothing more.

Re:I Wish (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669525)

On At&t, you don't get a discount for bringing your own device like you do on T-Mobile so that $49 vs. $199 dollars on some other phone is a real 150 dollar difference and that matters. The fact that they have to spend $450 to just sell a phone for over $100 less than comparable Android phones stinks of pathetic failure no matter how you try to spin it.

Re:I Wish (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669851)

Mine did.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_C1-01 [wikipedia.org]

No contract. SIM phone. Basically it's a really really good clock-radio, with a decent mp3 player, a useful electronic calendar etc etc etc, that just happens to include an okay phone too when I want to spend $10 for 30 days of Fido airtime.

The camera's a bit of joke by modern standards, but it's actually good enough for 'make a note of that' shots.

And yup... this is exactly the type of /excellent/ cheap phone that Nokia made their rep on so you'd buy Nokia when you upgrade, and that they're now cancelling. Full facepalm.

Re:I Wish (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669967)

Not parent, but another fan of the phone. It is also one of the cheapest quad band phones I have ever purchased (an unlocked one would work on any GSM network except Japan).

I have an idea... (1)

TWX (665546) | about 2 years ago | (#40669387)

...why don't they sell handsets in an honest fashion that aren't tied to a specific carrier, so that we can buy a GSM phone if we like GSM networks, or a CDMA phone if we like CDMA networks, and then we buy our service?

Oh, right, because they're both evil and stupid to think that we'll shop around for new providers...

Just like we shop around for insurance?

Re:I have an idea... (1)

noh8rz5 (2674523) | about 2 years ago | (#40669463)

you can do this, but nobody wants to, because they don't want to pay $650 for a phone when they can get it subsidized at $200.

Re:I have an idea... (1)

iced_773 (857608) | about 2 years ago | (#40669503)

Hell, if they made one that worked on Verizon I'd buy it and use the SIM in my Galaxy Nexus for a few days just to play with it.

If Microsoft were serious about Windows Phone, they'd push harder to get it on the largest US network. Right now the only WP on Verizon is the HTC Trophy, which is two years old and doesn't do LTE.

Re:I have an idea... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669769)

...why don't they sell handsets in an honest fashion that aren't tied to a specific carrier, so that we can buy a GSM phone if we like GSM networks, or a CDMA phone if we like CDMA networks, and then we buy our service?

You mean like how I got a Singapore-market N9 imported by an internet retailer, and bought service from T-mobile?

Smart people already do this, and marketing to them is neither very necessary nor very effective, because they do their own research and make up their own damn minds. Of course, they don't as a rule make up their mind to buy a Lumia, because of the whole smart thing.

iphone "killers": Samsung/Sprint Instinct, $100mil (3, Interesting)

neurocutie (677249) | about 2 years ago | (#40669391)

This sort of epic failure is hardly unique. For example, in the early days following the debut of the Apple iPhone, vendor and carriers tried to fight the success of the AT&T/Apple iphone. One of the first such iphone "killers", notable for its total failure, was the Samsung Instinct, released by Sprint. It was actually a dumb "featurephone", although in those days, the iphone was also not considered a smartphone.

The low $199 price of the iphone really caught most carriers off guard -- the standard pricing for smartphones in those days was around $350 *with* contract. So the Instinct's original pricing of $179 had to be lowered to $129. Sprint HEAVILY marketed this thing, with many ads showing the "advantages" of the Instinct over the iphone. Hesse, CEO of Sprint, spent $100mil on marketing the Instinct.

However the Instinct (or In-stink as its customers would come to call it), was really a terrible product -- terrible web browser, lame features, AND worse, required Sprint's brand new, and very pricey (for Sprint), data plans.

Sprint refuses to release real sales numbers, but estimates by analysts were in the 350K range -- perhaps after a year it might have hit 500K. So that is at best $200 of MARKETING COSTS for each Instinct sold.

Hesse would never again stink that much into marketing a phone. Indeed some blame that burn episode for Sprint's rather poor marketing of the Palm Pre, a much better device that never was really given a proper chance...

Re:iphone "killers": Samsung/Sprint Instinct, $100 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669419)

Yeah, the Microsoft Kin was another example of epic fail.

Windows Phone needs a hook (5, Insightful)

mozumder (178398) | about 2 years ago | (#40669405)

The iPhone worked because people could use it as an iPod, and it had the whole exclusive iTunes infrastructure behind it.

Blackberry's killed it with their keyboard.

Android didn't get popular until the Droid came out with their keyboard, giving it that differentiation from the iPhone, and that it was available outside of Cingular/AT&T.

Windows phone doesn't really offer any exclusive hook that'll sell itself. It has a nice UI, but the other systems are pretty good and ultimately very usable.

I suspect they'll have to tie in deeper with the upcoming Windows 8 infrastructure to get Windows Phone to sell. Or maybe XBox games. But right now it doesn't have that absolutely exclusive must-have killer app or selling point.

It's really shame, because Windows phone is a perfectly fine system that just needs a critical mass to get going.

Re:Windows Phone needs a hook (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669571)

It's really shame, because Windows phone is a perfectly fine system that just needs a critical mass to get going.

OMFG, how many times do I have to hear this shit? You fanboys have been bleating this shit for the entire 2 years of windows phone's existence. Just need marketing, just need Mango, Just need Nokia. Guess what? You got all of that and the shit still didn't sell. Just because you think it is great doesn't change the fact that normal people prefer the iPhone and Android. Basically wp is a flop.

Re:Windows Phone needs a hook (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669691)

Yeah WP is a flop, because Nokia was selling so awesome in the US before that. WP is definitely to blame.. yawn..

Re:Windows Phone needs a hook (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669715)

Are you retarded? I didn't say the word Nokia one single time in my post. I said Windows Phone you fucking numbskull. God I hate Slashdot sometimes.

Re:Windows Phone needs a hook (1)

GigaplexNZ (1233886) | about 2 years ago | (#40669889)

OMFG, how many times do I have to hear this shit? You fanboys have been bleating this shit for the entire 2 years of windows phone's existence. Just need marketing, just need Mango, Just need Nokia.

Yeah WP is a flop, because Nokia was selling so awesome in the US before that.

Are you retarded? I didn't say the word Nokia one single time in my post.

Uh... yeah you did.

Re:Windows Phone needs a hook (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669611)

Yeah, it needs a literal hook that can catch onto people as they pass it by, then you can measure its popularity by the average distance each Windows Phone travels and it might be in the running!

Re:Windows Phone needs a hook (1)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#40669907)

Here's an idea....how about making it impossible for Window's phones to restrict owners from running any software that they please? Since most manufacturers seem to be limiting their phones to the dictates of the carriers it would really make Window's phones stand out in the crowd!

Too Soon (2)

detain (687995) | about 2 years ago | (#40669423)

anyone with previous experience with older versions of Windows Mobile can tell you really it sucks compaired to iOS or Android. Nobody goes for a windows phone these days. Windows 8 for PC is coming out, and its interface is basically identical to the mobile phone version. Once people use Windows 8 (PC) for a couple years and are more used to the new desktop UI , the mobile phone platform will become alot more appealing to many people who want the familiarity of their PC on their phone. Nokia was a giant in the cell industry but has been slipping lately. They should focus on android offerings and wait a little after windows 8 is on more peoples desktops before trying to push a windows phone. Once windows 8 for pc is released though, people that have the new windows phones will probably start to appreciate them more. That being said, I dont like the new windows 8 for PC interface, so i wont like the windows phone interface (still), so I wont be getting rid of my android anytime soon. It did take many years before i was willing to give the new stylish windows XP a try and give up the windows 95/98 look...

Re:Too Soon (1)

Zaelath (2588189) | about 2 years ago | (#40669481)

Man, I think you have that all backwards... they're relying on the popularity of the awesomeness of WinPho8 to sell Windows 8.

Nope (2)

detain (687995) | about 2 years ago | (#40669559)

No, they don't have to rely on anything to sell windows 8. It can suck outloud (think ME, Vista) and will still get picked up by all the big vendors, it will show up on a lot of new PCs, people will get forced into it at some point one way or another (work upgrades, using a friends computer, etc..). MS doesn't have to do anything at all to get Windows 8 for PC sold and showing up on a decent number of systems. Windows Mobile is where they don't have decades of experience and reputation that they can rely on to guarantee sales.

Re:Nope (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669617)

I gather you're new to the whole "sarcasm" thing.

Re:Too Soon (3, Insightful)

mbkennel (97636) | about 2 years ago | (#40669765)

"the mobile phone platform will become alot more appealing to many people who want the familiarity of their PC on their phone. "

(remove shoe, bang on table)
Nyet! Nyet! Nyet!

That's one of the biggest problems with Microsoft.

Average people's idea of Windows: something annoying they have to use at work or on their PC, DO NOT WANT.

I had a Windows Mobile 5.x, and they obviously attempted to make it "look like" and sort of feel-like Windows XP. It was horrid. I got it for free from somebody who bought an early iPhone (2 or 3G?).

Jobs understood the problem from the beginning. He did NOT shove the Mac interface on the iPhone. Why? Because he had the balls to say that something whose interface he personally contributed to or at least vetted would not be good on a handheld phone.

Now Microsoft STILL fails to correctly learn the lesson, and after a major fail putting a craptastic XP on their phone, they are putting a phone interface and craptasticing Windows on the PC.

I know what people will feel: DO NOT WANT.

Microsoft should do something more radical, like not call their mobile phone operating system "Windows", and stop believing that there is any reason to have the same interface. Start by making something good, really good--and by the new name declare that the sublimation of everything to supporting the Great Windows Empire is now over. For this to happen, Ballmer needs to be fired first. Why is he still there?

Re:Too Soon (4, Interesting)

SurfsUp (11523) | about 2 years ago | (#40669857)

Nokia was a giant in the cell industry but has been slipping lately.

Slipping? That's an understatement. Go check out the 1 year graph [google.com]. You can't even see today's price because it's lost under the markers at the bottom.

Register makes /. look good by comparison (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669425)

If you're "making" someone buy the phone, it's not marketing, but coercion. I'm happy to call phone companies out when they do evil shit, but this is merely annoying, not coercive. I'm happy to also call out the Register when they have headlines that are full of shit.

As another post mentioned, $49 is the sticker price, not the total revenue earned from deals with service providers, crapware, and other annoying gimmicks.

And just as the revenue only makes sense when considered over the life of the phone, the marketing only makes sense over a period of years. This is a big initial push, it's risky, it might all fail. I'm fine with that because it's not my money. (Except for any subsidies they get from the government trough, but I don't think much gets pumped into ad campaigns.) But presumably the big push will come to an end, and if they have a good body of relatively happy customers, they get free marketing from word of mouth, and they can do much cheaper marketing that is directed towards existing customers.

Maybe if Nokia came to T-Mobile (1)

lappman (1720308) | about 2 years ago | (#40669455)

Perhaps the problem isn't the marketing, but rather that your phone selling strategy is off. How come T-Mobile still does not have the Lumia 900? Still waiting ....

Re:Maybe if Nokia came to T-Mobile (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669515)

How come T-Mobile still does not have the Lumia 900? Still waiting ....

Because having only a single customer who is willing to buy a windows phone is not worth it?

Especially with millions wanting to buy anything but a windows phone.

Re:Maybe if Nokia came to T-Mobile (1)

Sir_Sri (199544) | about 2 years ago | (#40669913)

Right, the whole WP7 thing is to lure developers and to get enough of a base they can get statistically significant metrics on what they need to make it do.

Presumably the plan has been to incorporate this into WP8, whether they succeed or not is another matter entirely.

Re:Maybe if Nokia came to T-Mobile (1)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#40669773)

As long has it doesn't have Microsoft shit on it I'd buy one, until then I'll hang on to my N900. Oh, and I'll be happy to entertain offers from anyone wanting to get rid of their N900s.

Yes, but the REAL question is... (1)

lopaka1998 (1352441) | about 2 years ago | (#40669457)

Yes, but how much RESEARCH does it take to figure out that "It Costs $450 In Marketing To Make Someone Buy a $49 Nokia Lumia" ??? That is the real question!

I LIKE THOSE ODDS !! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669489)

With MS comes deep pockets !! That's why Nokia went with WP !! I saw this already at Mix10, so the pair were brewing this even before Elop got there !! Sneaky dogs !!

In other news, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669505)

every Slashdotter wonders why they also can't just start at the top.

MAKE someone buy one? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669551)

I think people are overestimating the power of advertising.

Microsoft killed Nokia (3, Interesting)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#40669579)

Yeah, I know I'm just stupid open source open source hardware jerk but when asked, which is quite often, which phone to buy I always say avoid anything related to Microsoft. Now admittedly my personal anomosity goes way back to Gate's letter against hobbyists using his software without ponying up pennies to him. Still today though my advice to everyone is to not buy anything that requires you to pay monies past the original transaction.

Re:Microsoft killed Nokia (1)

bennomatic (691188) | about 2 years ago | (#40669653)

Hate to say it, but Nokia was going to die anyway. They were in the lead in the race to the bottom for a long time before they realized the market wasn't even behind them anymore. Sure they have some nice devices--even some hacker-friendly ones--but none of them were ever going to be popular enough to save the company.

Once upon a time, Nokia pivoted from being world leader in wood product sales to being a technology and communications leader. It's a pity they didn't see the black swan and pivot again in time to make more of a showing against the iPhone.

Re:Microsoft killed Nokia (2)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#40669717)

So they chose Microsoft because it had the sharper blade? Yeah, I know I'm just a market of one but I still search for deals on N900s so I can benefit from Nokia's best product for as long as I can. If they would have sold the N950 without restrictions I'd be buying them up too. So tell me, what Microsoft product do you have the same devotion for?

Re:Microsoft killed Nokia (1)

SurfsUp (11523) | about 2 years ago | (#40669875)

Hate to say it, but Nokia was going to die anyway.

That's self serving spin from Microsoft trolls and has been debunked.

Re:Microsoft killed Nokia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40670055)

As if Apple is any more open... at least Microsoft is the underdog here.

Changes Windows on it (1, Offtopic)

failedlogic (627314) | about 2 years ago | (#40669641)

Nokia Lumina includes Windows Phone. It is implied to be version 1.0 since MS marketing did not mention which version is installed on the phone. If its not obvious, MS Marketing will tell you.

From the headline, each version jump of Windows Phone seems to be worth $49 to the consumer.

MS should release Windows Phone 9.183673469387755. You know they are going to.

9.183673469387755 x $49 = $450.

Assuming a fixed cost of marketing of $450 per phone per consumer for future releases, at MS Phone OS v 9.183673469387755, the phone advertises itself for free.

I leave it to the reader to determine what will happen after.

Re:Changes Windows on it (1)

EzInKy (115248) | about 2 years ago | (#40669813)

Microsoft isn't going to allow any version jumps that don't suck in profit for themelves, so it makes no sense at all for anyone to purchase a version of their software nearing end of support.

How much (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40669971)

How much does it cost to buy a slashvertisement against your competitor, with a headline that implies that the competitor's product has negative value?

Re:How much (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#40670017)

How much does it cost to post a comment on slashdot asking "How much does it cost to buy a slashvertisement against your competitor, with a headline that implies that the competitor's product has negative value?". It should cost the same I guess.

Re:How much (1)

oakgrove (845019) | about 2 years ago | (#40670063)

There's this thing on here called the firehose. If you don't like a story, you can vote it down. I guess bitching and conspiracy theories are more fun though.
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