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The Web Is Not the Internet

timothy posted more than 2 years ago | from the and-please-don't-say-atm-machine dept.

Networking 412

pigrabbitbear writes with this rant from Motherboard.vice.com: "The Internet and the World Wide Web are not the same thing. They're not synonyms. They don't even serve the same function. And, just like how England is in the United Kingdom, but the United Kingdom isn't England, getting the distinction wrong means you can inadvertently sound like a dummy. Most of the time they can be used synonymously and no one will care, but if you're talking about history or technical stuff and you want to be accurate or a know-it-all or beat a computer at Jeopardy, you should know the difference. The Web was born at CERN in 1990, as a specific, visual protocol on the Internet, the global network of computers that began two decades earlier."

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And 2+2=4 (5, Informative)

dmesg0 (1342071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40674971)

Now we all know.

Re:And 2+2=4 (5, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675055)

Now we all know.

But 2+2=5, for very large values of 2

This whole arguement is a single voice mumbling in a maelstrom. Rather like people pointing out the 21st century began on Jan 1, 2001, not on Jan 1, 2000 (while being utterly ignored by all the happy people partying.)

Re:And 2+2=4 (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675257)

2+2=5, for very large values of 2

That never made sense to me. It always seemed that 2+2 should equal 6 for very large values of 2.

Re:And 2+2=4 (3, Interesting)

Fwipp (1473271) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675485)

2.4 rounds to 2, 2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8, which rounds to 5.

Re:And 2+2=4 (4, Insightful)

asdf7890 (1518587) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675433)

(while being utterly ignored by all the happy people partying)

While sensible hedonists used the confusions as an excuse for an extra large party two years running.

Re:And 2+2=4 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675495)

2.4 + 2.4 = 4.8

but depending on the rounding used this will mean that

2 + 2 = 5

Re:And 2+2=4 (1)

k(wi)r(kipedia) (2648849) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675085)

Now we all know.

Not if you're using base 4.

not always... (1)

logicassasin (318009) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675151)

2 cups of water + 2 cups of alcohol 4 cups of fluid. /end chemistry jackassery

Re:And 2+2=4 (3, Interesting)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675319)

Slowly over time, being a technical person has became from a socially award activity to something more socially acceptable, and well recognized.
We need stories like this to increase or "Anality" towards the general public, because we just can't go along being socially accepted.

But...
How much work on the internet do we do outside normal HTTP/HTTPS protocols? Most of our email clients are now Web Based. Cloud Applications tend to communicate via Web Services, On your local intranet at work, most of the stuff is Web Based...
So if I found someone who mixes Internet and World Wide Web I am not going to correct them, unless we are talking in a very technical level.

I had more issue back in the 1990's where people thought AOL was the internet. And the Only Way to get on it.

Anality (3, Insightful)

formfeed (703859) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675397)

Slowly over time, being a technical person has became from a socially award activity to something more socially acceptable, and well recognized. We need stories like this to increase or "Anality" towards the general public, because we just can't go along being socially accepted.

Some of it is needed however. Too much "anality" and you become a dweeb again, too little and you lose your expert status.
The public expects some level of nitpickery, anal irrelevance, incomprehensible babble, and irrelevant findings for you to continue your status as egghead.

Re:Anality (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675447)

But if you are truly and expert, you will do incomprehensible babble from time to time, we don't need stories to try to make us go further.

Interweb (5, Funny)

TechwoIf (1004763) | more than 2 years ago | (#40674973)

It is interweb, not internet. ;-)

Re:Interweb (5, Funny)

boristdog (133725) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675161)

interwebs is plural, duh.

Re:Interweb (4, Funny)

mech_knight (748354) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675243)

interwebs is plural, duh.

Interwebs ARE plural, duh.

Re:Interweb (4, Funny)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675269)

Always been partial to intertubes.

Re:Interweb (5, Funny)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675383)

What you do in the privacy of your own home is none of our business.

Re:Interweb (1)

wbr1 (2538558) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675449)

interwebs is plural, duh.

Interwebz has a 'z' in it duh.

Re:Interweb (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675267)

You are thinking of the intertubes.

Re:Interweb (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675425)

Interwebs and internets are both plural, as any lolcat will tell you :-)

In reference to the article: sheesh. I ran the original WorldWideWeb [wikipedia.org] application on a NeXT workstation. Yes, I know what the difference is between the Internet and the World Wide Web. I don't bother trying to make that distinction with anyone other than technical people. With anyone else it is futile. If you try to explain it you may as well be talking in lolcat as far as they are concerned.

Re:Interweb (3, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675463)

It is interweb, not internet. ;-)

"You got your Internet in my Web!"

"You got your Web in my Internet!"

It's a whole new taste sensation! Alert the news! Oh, they don't care, there's a traffic accident or a house on fire or Tom Cruise is having another arranged marriage...

Facebook ... (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40674975)

... also isn't the Internet.

Re:Facebook ... (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675083)

... also isn't the Internet.

You spelt it wrong - it's with a little 'f'

And it's zuckernet to the faithful.

Re:Facebook ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675157)

And it's zuckernet to the faithful.

s/z/f/ is how the /. unfaithful would spell it.

O... (0)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 2 years ago | (#40674977)

...kay?

Re:O... (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675129)

...kay?

Yeah, I know. Tell that to the people at the bus stop, all texting and surfing and nattering on their smartypants phones and watch their eyes glaze over.

sorry I was late, boss. was at the stop and someone made my eyes glaze over and I was so distracted I missed the bus.

well duh (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40674979)

This is not news for nerds or stuff that matters.

Re:well duh (5, Interesting)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675065)

Not sure it's news for anyone. I know completely nontech folks who get the distinction because the use the web along with email and messaging and video streaming and online gaming. They seem to refer to the "web" when appropriate, and when they occasionally don't, who the hell cares?

Re:well duh (1, Troll)

eternaldoctorwho (2563923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675235)

*I* care! That is OUR word! You are not allowed to use it.

Re:well duh (4, Insightful)

Wovel (964431) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675483)

I did a poll of my 3 year old son, my wife, and my 85 year old grandmother, none of them thought this was news. How does this crap get on the front page. This site is turning into a vanity press for people who can game the firehose.

Re:well duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675501)

It is stuff that matters, as you'll find out when more ISPs start throttling or blocking everything but the web and won't allow other protocols but HTTP on port 80 (by running everything through "transparent" HTTP proxies).

This story is for idiots (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40674983)

Slashdot is jumping the fucking shark. This story belongs on CNN.com, where their tech reporters are busy giving the dead Steve Jobs rimjobs every day.

Re:This story is for idiots (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675479)

CNN.com, where their tech reporters are busy giving the dead Steve Jobs rimjobs every day.

That's impossible. Jobs worked at Apple, not Research In Motion.

Re:This story is for idiots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675505)

Please, Slashdot has long since landed in the water and is doing its umpteenth victory lap.

Why, thank you for that pedantic rant (5, Funny)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40674985)

Bet you're a hoot at parties. I can only imagine how charming a fellow you are when someone uses the term "hacker" to refer to someone who breaks into computer systems.

Re:Why, thank you for that pedantic rant (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675125)

unlike internet / web, this depends, if I can exploit their wallets :)

why are you telling us? (1)

j2.718ff (2441884) | more than 2 years ago | (#40674987)

Is this meant to imply that the average slashdot reader doesn't know the difference between the internet and the web?

Re:why are you telling us? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675123)

They don't. [slashdot.org]
Just count the number of people that claim the internet was created at cern when responding to people than correctly state that the internet was created by DARPA in the United States.

Re:why are you telling us? (3)

nedlohs (1335013) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675377)

I count exactly 0.

If fact seaching for CERN (other than hits on the word concern) returns one post which uses CERN (and its reply):

Europe did jack squat towards forming the internet.

You've heard of a little thing called the world wide web, yes?

The thing you're using to post this?

Guess what - it came from CERN.... in case you don't know, that's in the EU.

Which displays a distinct lack of knowledge of either EU membership or the location of CERN and an inability to indicate quotations from what it is replying to. But it's certainly clear that it is refering to the WWW when it says "it came from CERN".

So please be specific with this people and their posts you counted at that url getting it wrong.

Breaking news! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675001)

Thanks for telling me this incredible new news! I'm off now to a website frequented by old ladies, where I intend to post an instructions on the art of egg-sucking.

Laymen's Terms (5, Funny)

russlar (1122455) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675005)

The internet is a series of tubes, the web are the cats clogging the tubes.

Re:Laymen's Terms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675325)

And for some reason, the cats are all referred to a "5".

Re:Laymen's Terms (1)

Samantha Wright (1324923) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675369)

Not in the OSI model, they're not! They're clearly a 7.

that's right! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675015)

Facebook is the internet.

I've come to bless you all with information (0)

DontLickJesus (1141027) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675021)

Just like Slashdot is part of the News Media, but the News Media isn't Slashdot.

Thank you for assuming we're all idiots. Please move on.

Re:I've come to bless you all with information (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675053)

Wait a minute....

Slashdot is news?

Re:I've come to bless you all with information (2)

metalgamer84 (1916754) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675291)

Yes, for nerds apparently.

This is Slashdot? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675023)

What the fuck happened to this site? Seriously.

I used to come here daily to get my news fix and now it's more like once a month... and I'm immediately disappointed in the quality. I can't even be bothered to log in anymore.

This is amazingly horrible.

Re:This is Slashdot? (1)

fluffythedestroyer (2586259) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675165)

Thats pure bullshit, you read /. news everyday...liar. i see your posts... I'm /. stalking you... lol

Re:This is Slashdot? (4, Informative)

datavirtue (1104259) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675351)

I stay logged in. But I agree, this site is painful anymore, and I find myself browsing it less and less--ignoring stories more and more with an eye roll. To me, it is sad as there are no other communities which equal what /. once was. I would pay for membership to clean it up. Free sites are becoming useless because of crap invited by the ability of people to signup and post without barrier.

Re:This is Slashdot? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675475)

s/anymore/nowadays/

Stop using anymore in the affirmative.

Tubes (1)

xenoc_1 (140817) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675025)

When were the tubes born?

Re:Tubes (1)

fluffythedestroyer (2586259) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675183)

In a porn lab research center so they can prepare the Internet we know today

Can a story be modded "Troll" or "Flamebait"? (1)

logicassasin (318009) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675031)

We're on Slashdot... It's 2012... I'm pretty sure that this "revelation" was unnecessary for those that frequent this site.

Re:Can a story be modded "Troll" or "Flamebait"? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675105)

We're on Slashdot... It's 2012... I'm pretty sure that this "revelation" was unnecessary for those that frequent this site.

Yeah. Now we can return to our Gopher and Archie servers and get some real research done...

Re:Can a story be modded "Troll" or "Flamebait"? (1)

fluffythedestroyer (2586259) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675203)

What matters me is that people voted to get this article on the front page ? who the fucked voted for this piece of shit news ?

Orly? (0)

Zandamesh (1689334) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675033)

There is not really much to discuss here. Yes, ridiculing people about how little they know about the interwebs is fun, this is mostly history everybody here knows.

Slashdot is officially dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675043)

If this passes muster as a story for the Slashdot audience, I'm officially done.

Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675047)

I wanted to write something witty but this article sapped everything I had.

The article's wrong too (5, Informative)

Bogtha (906264) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675071)

What's not on it: Lots of stuff. E-mail, smartphone apps, peer-to-peer file-sharing networks, instant messaging programs, FTP, and Usenet, for example.

The web is not simply whatever is transmitted over HTTP. It's an information space, where anything addressable by URI is a leaf in the node. For instance, a telephone number is part of the web because of tel: URIs. Most of the things on his list are part of the web too - there are FTP and NNTP protocols. And in fact, some P2P networks work over HTTP anyway.

From Tim Berners-Lee himself, writing in 1996 [w3.org] :

An information object is "on the web" if it has a URI.

Re:The article's wrong too (4, Informative)

Sarten-X (1102295) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675253)

The Internet is a network of computers. The World Wide Web is a network of information. The Semantic Web is a network of information with contextual meaning in an annotated (preferably machine-readable) form.

Re:The article's wrong too (1)

Hentes (2461350) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675469)

But those services don't follow the W3C standards, so strictly speaking they are not web.

fuck this (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675073)

It's time to start a petition go fire timothy.

Re:fuck this (1)

fluffythedestroyer (2586259) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675211)

he aint the problem, people who voted to get this story on the front page ARE the problem. I want all those people banned, fired, tortured, etc.

Re:fuck this (1)

datavirtue (1104259) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675403)

Yes, every one of his posts are ridiculously out of line with our interests. It is like someone hired my grandmother to moderate. I love her, but I don't want her posting to /.

Get off my lawn! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675089)

Get off my lawn!

Yeah but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675091)

What about the Interwebs?

Please fix SLASH-13942 (1)

badboy_tw2002 (524611) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675093)

Bug report for SLASH-13942

It appears a comment from "Mr. Pedantic" filed to story "Web is growing at exponential rate" was somehow posted to the front page instead of being attached to the article.

Pedantic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675107)

Nobody has really cared about the distinction for the better part of the last decade. Agreed, when you are discussing the specific histories of the Internet and the World Wide Web, it is important to be clear to avoid distorting the forum. For the average Joe in day-to-day conversations, though, this is as pedantic as criticizing somebody for using interchangeably the words "motor" and "engine".

Re:Pedantic (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675127)

I have the motorboat farts right now. Is my ass a motor or an engine?

And what is the Internet? (4, Interesting)

Cyberax (705495) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675117)

And what is the Internet? The best definition I know is: "The largest equivalence class in the reflexive transitive symmetric closure of the relationship 'can be reached by an IP packet from'" by Seth Breidbart. Which is somewhat of a mouthful.

Who can give a better definition?

In the words of Peter Griffin (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675119)

I find this meatloaf rather shallow and pedantic

Sheesh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675131)

Stars are not holes in paper. More news please.

How did this get to the front page? (1)

medv4380 (1604309) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675133)

This is a meaningless argument that isn't even a story. This should be on something lower than Idle Slashdot.

This story is the dumbest internet in weeks. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675135)

Thanks for the blog post telling me what I already know about when Tim Berners-Lee invented The Internet.

Thank you (0)

whitroth (9367) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675139)

Dorks who think they're the same.

      mark, who was on usenet in 1991, and has friends who were on it, and had email, 10 years earlier

Was it visual? (3, Interesting)

Tancred (3904) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675141)

The Web was born at CERN in 1990, as a specific, visual protocol

The first web browser I used was text-only, called 'www', running on a Sun box. Was the visual component really there initially with the hyperlinks?

Re:Was it visual? (4, Informative)

c0d3g33k (102699) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675381)

MicroVAX for me. As I recall, the visual component was there initially, if your monitor could display graphics. Since the WWW was originally concieved as a way for researchers to share research results over the internet, URLs could refer to non-textual information, including, but not limited to visual information. Though the original browser was text-only, you could browse to an image that would display on your graphics capable monitor. It just wasn't integrated into the page alongside the text. The integrated text+graphics browser you're thinking of became popular with the development of Mosaic, although there were a few other WWW clients that did a passable job of it before Mosaic came along. Mosaic worked best, though, so it was the game-changer.

This bodes well... (4, Funny)

OldSport (2677879) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675143)

...for Slashdot accepting my recent submissions of such articles as "The Sky is Blue" and "Hitting Yourself with a Hammer Hurts."

Re:This bodes well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675271)

Hitting Yourself with a Hammer Hurts.

Correlation does not equal causation. You should hit yourself with a hammer under various circumstances, to narrow the possibilities.

"The AOL" (4, Funny)

stevegee58 (1179505) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675147)

One of my favorite quotes from my mom.

and that's not the only way ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675159)

... to make a complete ass of yourself. You could, for example, start preaching to the choir.

The history toilet paper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675167)

While we are at it, let not forget the important history of toilet paper. The first packaged toilet paper was the 1857 invention of American, Joseph Gayetty and called Gayetty's Medicated Paper. ....Now we can get back to what we were doing....

More ranting (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675177)

Yeah, cry me a river, bub. I'm afraid that ship has sailed.

Where I live, one of the major ISPs ran commercials proclaiming, "The original name for the Internet was 'the world-wide web.'" Yup, they're an ISP.

That's when I knew it was beyond redemption. Web, Internet, internet, interwebs, Facebook, it's all the same.

The web is not the internet (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675189)

Hypercard is.

I want to surf the World Wide Web (1)

FudRucker (866063) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675205)

but the internet keeps getting in the way,

would that be considered cybersquatting?

Oh good. (1)

Hadlock (143607) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675239)

Thanks for the tip.
 
Slashdot has really gone uphill since CmdrTaco left.

And while we're at it... (0)

kaizendojo (956951) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675259)

Attention Americans, it's "oriented" or "orientation". NOT "ORIENTATED". (Unless you're originally from the UK, which is in London. JK...JK)

This Jen is the Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675263)

The IT Crowd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYbyj9I1u6U&feature=related

Oh yeah...what's next? (2)

dtjohnson (102237) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675277)

...next thing you're going to say that 'cee-ment' and 'concrete' aren't the same thing.

Soooo.... (1)

hackula (2596247) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675279)

They are still basically the same thing and can be used interchangeably, correct? BTW, you forgot to say "Get off my lawn!"

Re:Soooo.... (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675443)

the difference between The Web and The Internet

with The Web if you have a new computer (or one that was just reloaded because a virus ate Windows AGAIN) you
start surfing around and spend the next 5 days trying to get all that "stuff" back on your computer (and have to babysit the installers to make sure you don't load any "extra" programs).

with The Internet you grab your key with Ninite on it (you already picked out your list of programs) or hit ninite.com and make your picks and then run a program and THE POWER OF THE NETWORK allows you to worry about other things while all your programs are loaded (and nothing else is).

TL,DR
The Web has you waiting The Internet has you working

People that don't know that... (1)

gmuslera (3436) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675409)

... should be aware that the botnet their PC is part sent their personal data using internet but not their browsers.

And another thing... (1)

Octorian (14086) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675427)

Remember folks, thanks to everyone being taught MS-DOS in the 80's and early 90's, all web addresses are pronounced:

Aitch Tee Tee Pee, Colon, Backslash, Backslash...

Obligatory xkcd [xkcd.com]

I was told it was GNU/Internet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40675429)

The only people who care about making this distinction are those basement dwellers who still believe Usenet has a purpose other than downloading TV shows. Times change.

Feel better now? (1)

DroolArt (63002) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675455)

Glad you got that off your chest; we sure didn't know that around here. And people think Nerds are unapproachable, wonder why...

Short easy names for things win. (3, Insightful)

jonadab (583620) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675459)

> And, just like how England is in the United Kingdom,
> but the United Kingdom isn't England

I suppose too that The United States of America is in the Americas but the United States thereof is not the same thing as America? And we dursn't call it just "the States" either because that's ambiguous because there might be other countries with the word "States" in their name at some point? Shall we stop calling China just "China" and start spelling out "The People's Democratic Socialist Republic of Maoist China" or whatever it's called in the formal diplomatic papers, every single time we refer to it, and similarly for the other one across the strait? And we should say "The Republic of the Netherlands" instead of Holland?

Phooey. Life's too short, and all that gratuitous verbiage takes too long to say every single time. I'm going to keep on calling them England and America and China and Taiwan. Every single person on the planet knows exactly which country I mean, *including* the sadly misguided people who insist I should call them by their ridiculously long official names all the time. Stuff that.

It's a little different with the web, because "the web" doesn't actually take longer to say than "the internet" or even just "the net". So, okay, we can call it "the web". I can live with that one.

Marketing asks... (1)

mikecase (1991782) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675499)

...but which one's the cloud?

News for nerds, stuff that matters. (1)

McDrewbs (2434030) | more than 2 years ago | (#40675515)

This "story" sounds like it began from this scenario.
http://xkcd.com/386/ [xkcd.com]

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