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Thomas Drake: You're Automatically Suspicious Until Proven Otherwise

Unknown Lamer posted more than 2 years ago | from the CNCIS-IMF-plutonium-Albright-cybercash-insurgency dept.

Censorship 502

colinneagle writes "RT had a very interesting interview with former NSA official turned whistleblower Thomas A. Drake, who said, 'Security has effectively become the State religion; you don't question it. And if you question it, then your loyalty is questioned.' 'Speaking truth of power is very dangerous in today's world,' he added. The interviewer pointed out that investigative journalists are labeled as 'terrorist helpers' for trying to reveal the truth, to which Drake said the government's take is 'you go after the messenger because the last thing you want to do is deal with the message.'" Network World also has a pretty good article on William Binney's keynote at HOPE 9, wherein he revealed some technical details and a bit more background on the NSA's domestic surveillance program. Unfortunately, neither audio or video of the talk are available yet.

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Stop using iDevices! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686071)

This just in: using Apple products has been linked to dangerously high emissions of smug. Stop using Apple products before the world drowns in smug!!!

NSAmerCIA (5, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686457)

In another recent development: The country of the USA is officially changing it's name to "East Germany". If geographically misleading, it seemed fitting in a number of other essential details.

The name was cheap, through recent disuse. The US was able to obtain it through a swap for their equally abandoned Constitutiuon.

Re:NSAmerCIA (-1)

asylumx (881307) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686695)

This is Romney's Amercia!

Re:NSAmerCIA (2)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686767)

And Obama's and Bush's and Clinton's and ...... America

Re:NSAmerCIA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686863)

Romney isn't even elected yet, and you libs are already blaming him? now that is funny!

Re:NSAmerCIA (1)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686911)

Is the Fox News site down? How about you troll over to Master Limbaugh's page and tell him how awesome he is. People like you who take offense at every perceived insult and immediately assume anybody different from you is one of them commie-nazi-al-quaida liberals make me sick.

power corrupts (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686119)

But Americans have been hugely keen on giving more and more power to their federal government, so this is in inevitable byproduct. Of course there must be some government, but not one that grows without bound and attracts power hungry, corrupt authoritarians.

But hey, keep on voting for those Republican and Democrats, because that's been working out so well thus far, amirite?

Re:power corrupts (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686249)

Because third parties that gain power never get corrupted, right? Oh wait, they do (see Republican party).

Re:power corrupts (5, Interesting)

Applekid (993327) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686337)

Because third parties that gain power never get corrupted, right? Oh wait, they do (see Republican party).

The point is that it's cyclical. When a party becomes corrupt, they ought to be ousted. But the political party system in our mathematically flawed election process is built to prevent those in power from losing it to upstarts. This is how political parties become corrupt: because they become entrenched.

Electoral collect, first past the post, no alternative vote, these are concessions against fair voting in an era where it took weeks to get a message from one end of the country to the other. Today? Not so much.

Re:power corrupts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686415)

If that were true we would still only have the Whigs and the Democratic-Republicans.

Re:power corrupts (1)

dgatwood (11270) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686635)

That change happened before television, back when the average politician spent (adjusted for inflation) single-digit millions of dollars when running for the presidency instead of single-digit billions.

Re:power corrupts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686773)

And? Back in the 1800s it was far harder for a new party to be formed and gain momentum due to slow travel of news and the inability to even gain any leverage aganst the entrenched powers. Today it's ridiculously easy to form a new party and get a message out. Third parties fail because they are either too narrowly focused to gain much support or are full of loons that drive away the centrists who could easily prople a new party into power.

Re:power corrupts (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686913)

So we stick with the broken Party system we have because something new might also not work.

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/genius-rage-face.png [weknowmemes.com]

How about we keep trying, or dismantle the whole Party concept completely? That way we can come up with solutions (which includes "do nothing") based on their merits and not ideological purity.

Not new [Re:power corrupts] (5, Insightful)

Geoffrey.landis (926948) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686673)

But Americans have been hugely keen on giving more and more power to their federal government

Sigh. No. The ignorance of history by the average American is appalling. No, this is nothing new. It goes back to the 1798 Alien and Sedition acts [ushistory.org] , at least. There's nothing "more and more' about it-- you do remember the domestic spying of the 1960s and 1970s, right? Or the Kent State incident where National Guardsmen shot a bunch of students on the quad (who, as it turned out, didn't even have anything to do with the protests over which that the Guards had been called out?) Well, no, probably you don't. What is new is the large amount of push-back against giving power to the federal goverment.

There's been for the last two centuries a give and take between cries for security and the desire for non-interference; or, if you like, the battle between fear and freedom.

, so this is in inevitable byproduct. Of course there must be some government, but not one that grows without bound and attracts power hungry, corrupt authoritarians. But hey, keep on voting for those Republican and Democrats, because that's been working out so well thus far, amirite?

You're ignoring large amounts of debate and back-and-forth in order to phrase things as simple freedom-versus-evil. Even in the two-party system, the parties are not monoliths; opinions are not uniform nor black-and-white. However, if you don't like the two-party system, you might try to see if you can advocate changing the ballotting system that we currently have, which drives the politics to two parties. Try advocating approval voting, for example, which is a system that is not biased toward two parties: http://www.electology.org/approval-voting [electology.org] http://bcn.boulder.co.us/government/approvalvote/center.html [boulder.co.us] (or any of several other methods that don't fail badly with multiple candidates).

Verified, and will continue (3, Insightful)

s.petry (762400) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686129)

Many of us already know exactly what is being stated. You really only needed to investigate the Tea Party, OWS, and the Ron Paul followers to know this was happening. Many leaders of those groups have been jailed, detained, and publicly discredited by corporate owned media.

Without the common statements regarding famous books, what people should be fearing is tyranny. Tyranny is a very short step away from where we are now. I would be a fool to state that it's everyone in Government. I would be a bigger fool to deny that there are people in Government pushing for a Tyrannical State and Oppressive Government.

Guard that 2nd amendment right people, since you are dealing with people that are armed to the teeth and have no issues killing civilians. Simply look at the body counts in the Middle East, Africa. Do so with unbiased corporate owned media, or check numerous sources.

Re:Verified, and will continue (5, Insightful)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686265)

Guard that 2nd amendment right people, since you are dealing with people that are armed to the teeth and have no issues killing civilians. Simply look at the body counts in the Middle East, Africa. Do so with unbiased corporate owned media, or check numerous sources.

Do you honestly think that you could fight the U.S. government with any amount of weapons you as an individual, or even organized with your buddies, could ever accumulate? Were you not paying attention to stories about Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.? Or hell, for that matter, the Civil War?

I always have to laugh when I see this "We might need to fight the government!" argument people make about the Second Amendment. If it ever comes to the point where we have to have an armed revolution, your little pop guns aren't going to do diddly against our domestic police forces. The only way it would ever happen is for individuals that make up the police forces (that is, the police, National Guard, Coast Guard, and other domestic security agencies) to be on your side.

You would be "removed" before you ever got to the point where you could seriously fight the government. If you're lucky, that means you'd be shipped somewhere like Guantanamo Bay (or more likely, extraordinary rendered to some godforsaken hellhole where they torture people).

If you're going to change the government, you're going to have to do it by changing the hearts and minds of the U.S. citizenry to elect people who are willing to change the laws and give up some of the power the State has accumulated over the centuries. Not an easy task, I'll grant you, and many people believe that that will never happen. But if not, well, you're going to have to accept what we're stuck with today because armed revolution is not, nor will it ever be, the answer.

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686423)

> If you're lucky, that means you'd be shipped somewhere like Guantanamo Bay (or more likely, extraordinary rendered to some godforsaken hellhole where they torture people). ... but you repeat yourself...

Re:Verified, and will continue (1, Insightful)

Nyder (754090) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686441)

Guard that 2nd amendment right people, since you are dealing with people that are armed to the teeth and have no issues killing civilians. Simply look at the body counts in the Middle East, Africa. Do so with unbiased corporate owned media, or check numerous sources.

Do you honestly think that you could fight the U.S. government with any amount of weapons you as an individual, or even organized with your buddies, could ever accumulate? Were you not paying attention to stories about Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.? Or hell, for that matter, the Civil War?

I always have to laugh when I see this "We might need to fight the government!" argument people make about the Second Amendment. If it ever comes to the point where we have to have an armed revolution, your little pop guns aren't going to do diddly against our domestic police forces. The only way it would ever happen is for individuals that make up the police forces (that is, the police, National Guard, Coast Guard, and other domestic security agencies) to be on your side.

You would be "removed" before you ever got to the point where you could seriously fight the government. If you're lucky, that means you'd be shipped somewhere like Guantanamo Bay (or more likely, extraordinary rendered to some godforsaken hellhole where they torture people).

If you're going to change the government, you're going to have to do it by changing the hearts and minds of the U.S. citizenry to elect people who are willing to change the laws and give up some of the power the State has accumulated over the centuries. Not an easy task, I'll grant you, and many people believe that that will never happen. But if not, well, you're going to have to accept what we're stuck with today because armed revolution is not, nor will it ever be, the answer.

Well, don't complain when they come and get you because you choose to do nothing. And they will come to get you. No one is safe.

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686537)

Well, don't complain when they come and get you because you choose to do nothing. And they will come to get you. No one is safe.

False dichotomy. You're not stuck between fighting the system and doing nothing.

You can always join the government and be the guy going after people. It's not so bad, you get shiny white armor and get to cuddle cute animals [wikia.com]

Re:Verified, and will continue (1)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686693)

Well, don't complain when they come and get you because you choose to do nothing. And they will come to get you. No one is safe.

As noted above, I didn't say "choose to do nothing." In fact, I specifically told you how change can come about. Sounds to me like you are the one who has given up, effectively choosing to do nothing.

Or, I'm sorry, did you think that posting messages on Slashdot was actually going to lead to some meaningful outcome? That if enough Congressmen, judges, and the President just read your comment, they'd finally come to their senses?

Re:Verified, and will continue (2)

khallow (566160) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686471)

Were you not paying attention to stories about Ruby Ridge, Waco, etc.? Or hell, for that matter, the Civil War?

I take it you weren't. A small group of irate people with zero support can cause massive problems for the federal government? So what happens when half the houses in a region go Ruby Ridge? Then you segue to Civil War status. And there we see that a group of states can indeed give the federal government a run for the money.

Do you honestly think that you could fight the U.S. government with any amount of weapons you as an individual, or even organized with your buddies, could ever accumulate?

Sure, get enough buddies, enough organization, and eventually enough military hardware and you can beat the pants off the federal government.

If it ever comes to the point where we have to have an armed revolution, your little pop guns aren't going to do diddly against our domestic police forces.

Aside from rendering that police force obsolete? Not a thing except maybe killing a bunch of police officers. The military is the elephant in this room not the domestic police force. A pop gun can mess up a squad car pretty well. It's a bit less effective against a 62 metric ton tank or a supersonic fighter jet.

Re:Verified, and will continue (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686841)

If it ever comes to the point where we have to have an armed revolution, your little pop guns aren't going to do diddly against our domestic police forces.

Aside from rendering that police force obsolete? Not a thing except maybe killing a bunch of police officers. The military is the elephant in this room not the domestic police force. A pop gun can mess up a squad car pretty well. It's a bit less effective against a 62 metric ton tank or a supersonic fighter jet.

If the US government tried to use military force against its own people, the military would break down into three factions: 1) the blindly following orders faction; 2) the "sit and do nothing" faction; and 3) the "fight those blindly following the orders" faction.

I would think that if push came to shove, (1) and (3) would be roughly equal. That leaves millions of armed and angry people in Texas, Montana, and Michigan vs. the police and ~600 federal administrators. I know who my money would be on.

Re:Verified, and will continue (4, Insightful)

KingSkippus (799657) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686865)

I take it you weren't. A small group of irate people with zero support can cause massive problems for the federal government? So what happens when half the houses in a region go Ruby Ridge? Then you segue to Civil War status. And there we see that a group of states can indeed give the federal government a run for the money.

So did you notice the part where the federal government won in each and every case? That afterwards, there was exactly zero meaningful change, except possibly to push the pendulum even further in the direction of unfettered federal power?

As opposed to, I dunno, say, Martin Luther King, Jr.? Yeah, all of those weapons he was stockpiling sure helped shake things up. And all of those 60s hippies who were so gung ho about engaging in armed conflict really made the difference in stopping the Vietnam War. Wow, remember that bloody clash when the students at Kent State started firing back at police? Even today in, say, the struggle of gay people much much recent success to gain acceptance in society, I can't help but notice how it finally came about when they started espousing arming themselves to defend their rights.

Except... Oh yeah, right! None of those things happened! All of those fundamental shifts in how government has changed were accomplished through non-violent campaigns to win the hearts and minds of the American people.

Look, I know it's fun to romanticize the Revolutionary War, as if that's the One and Only Way to solve government oppression. Maybe you missed out on the history of things like 1) England was across the Atlantic Ocean, which posed a significant logistical disadvantage, 2) England was also mired in conflict with France at the time, and 3) England didn't have a massive arsenal of modern weaponry to use against the colonists. Yes, we won, but anyone who doesn't recognize that such an example is practically useless in today's world is an idiot.

Re:Verified, and will continue (5, Interesting)

JockTroll (996521) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686885)

If you go against a tank or a fighter jet with a shotgun you're doing it wrong. Are you aware that if you kill the personnel that maintains and operates the tanks, planes and drones, those shiny pieces of equipment do not work? And are you aware that the ubertechnoinvincible Western armies have had their asses sliced off, cooked and curry spiced and served to them with hot peppers and salad in a good lot of places? Mind you, the Serbs are still kicking their heads for playing too nice.

Re:Verified, and will continue (1)

Johann Lau (1040920) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686483)

"they can't kill us all"

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686531)

The effect is to make it more expensive for those in power to do things the people don't like. The same as going to a protest.

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686581)

Also noone really wants to deal with all the memorandum faxing/emailing, etc that goes with ordering an armed conflict.

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686591)

I'm sorry, but elections are rigged in the US. They are emotionally rigged. The average american is unhealthy, eats crappy food and takes bad medicine and therefore more susceptible to emotional rhetoric to where they easily vote for a "popular" candidate that is corporate owned.

We will be in an era where corporations rule the world. Corporations running countries have been going on for a long time, look at Haliburton and the bribes it gives to Nigerian officials, Nicaragua, Guatemala and most of South America, Middle East, etc. Corporations from other countries (not just US) played a role in shaping that country's government and incidently allowed for many innocent lives to be lost in the process.

So yeah, democracy is a myth, case in point - Russia.

Re:Verified, and will continue (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686807)

"Emotionally rigged" is a good phrase. Right now a great deal of our populace is basing the voting decisions of 30 second commercials. There are voiceover artists that do nothing but read copy in a tone of voice that connotes evil or threatening overtones. Our elections are supposed to be about real debate, but you can't have them in 30 second corporate crafted soundbites.

When you add on top of it a set of "debates" every presidential cycle that specifically filters out certain questions the corporate media does not want to be discussed it's the formula for some really awful decision making by a populace that is, by and large, lacking on their critical thinking skills.

Re:Verified, and will continue (2)

s.petry (762400) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686629)

No, Maybe, and Yes. I think the difference between now and then is that we have more people in the US Military and Police forces that are paying attention. I'm not confident that it will just be people with small arms against the whole Government, since many will revolt if the proverbial shit hits the fan from the Military and Police.

I think something to consider is the plight of the Jews under Nazi Germany, and ask a fundamental question. Would you rather die fighting to be free, or die in the hands of an oppressor? I learned a lot of history, and I can tell you my answer. Millions of Chinese, Russians, and Jewish people waited for the storm to blow over hoping it would all go away and we see where they ended up.

You can choose to sit and be complacent, however I would not advocate such action as the only action, since doing nothing will cause much more harm than good. Historically the previous statement is accurate.

I agree with your last statement, however, I don't think it can happen before the proverbial shit hits the fan. I have been hoping that same thing for many years, and continue to hope. The problems is not just who controls the media, but also the candidates put on ballets. If those things get changed we have a chance.

Re:Verified, and will continue (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686765)

o you honestly think that you could fight the U.S. government with any amount of weapons you as an individual, or even organized with your buddies, could ever accumulate?

Yes, I honestly do.

First, a large fraction of the armed forces will not fire on American citizens. Some will, sure, but not most. But let's imagine they would, just for argument sake.

It's true, I do not have an F-16 or an M-1 Abrams, and I cannot directly fight that F-16 with any weapons I possess. But that doesn't matter one bit. The person flying the F-16 has to step out of it. For every one person in the Army or Navy, there are thousands who are not. Get those thousands mad enough, and it doesn't matter what fancy weapons they have. if there are a thousand angry people with rifles for every one with a tank, the one with the tank loses. Don't underestimate the power of numbers. This is why terrorists can't take over planes with box cutters or even guns any more. They might have more powerful weapons than the 200 passengers with fists, but the 200 passengers WILL win, if they work together.

Where does Mr F-16's food come from? People like us. Who delivers the fuel to run the airplanes, tanks, and Humvees? People like us. Civilians. The entire armed forces ONLY functions because it has support from the civilian population. If that population turns against the government, there is fuck-all the government can do about it. Remove that support, and the government crumbles, no matter how many tanks and airplanes and howitzers it has. There's not a military base in the country that would stand up to a large scale civilian revolt from an armed populace. A handful of yahoos, sure. A real, serious civilian uprising, when those civilians are armed? No.

It hasn't reached that point yet, and I hope to the FSM it never does, but if current trends continue, it conceivably could. And it's not going to be pretty if that happens. Many people will die, many lives will be shattered. We all better hope for a change of direction before it's too late, and people do start turning against the government in large masses.

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686805)

I always have to laugh when I see this "We might need to fight the government!" argument people make about the Second Amendment. If it ever comes to the point where we have to have an armed revolution, your little pop guns aren't going to do diddly against our domestic police forces. The only way it would ever happen is for individuals that make up the police forces (that is, the police, National Guard, Coast Guard, and other domestic security agencies) to be on your side.

Maybe it's a futile act, but some of us would rather die on our feet than live on our knees.

Re:Verified, and will continue (1)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686877)

I have to laugh at the 2nd Amendment NRA types bristling with their automatic weapons and camoflage gear. Ever tried taking the 2nd Amendment into an airport?

Even a "well-regulated" militia doesn't stand a chance against a determined Federal government armed with nuclear warheads and drones. So cut the pep rallies and let's look for something realistic. Violence isn't going to do it.

I can sympathise with the need to keep secrets. Not all processes work well when done totally in the open. On the other hand, secrecy is one of the greatest defenses of tyrants. Secrecy should be a last resort, not the first. So pardon me if I cannot totally condemn WikiLeaks. Roaches flee from the light. Even Gutenberg supposedly considered the dangers of spreading information too freely, but decided that the benefits outweighed the costs.

Re:Verified, and will continue (4, Interesting)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686281)

>>> Many leaders of [Tea Party, OWS, and the Ron Paul followers] have been jailed, detained.....

When did this supposedly happen? I'm aware of the Occupy people being jailed, because they were vandalizing property (see the broken windows in Oakland, and feces found in churches/along sidewalks) but not about Tea Party or Paulbots in jail or detained?

>>>Tyranny is a very short step away from where we are now

I've said the same thing on my facebook, but 99% of the responders tell me I'm nuts. For example they defend the Obamacare Mandate saying it's "reasonable" and that TSA employees are just doing their job. ("Would you rather be blown up?") That when I was pulled-over in Texas by DHS, I should have left the police look inside my trunk, instead of saying no/no/no for an hour. ("If you've done nothing wrong, what do you have to hide?") Perhaps I am wrong and the government really isn't heading towards tyranny.

Re:Verified, and will continue (4, Insightful)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686363)

When did this supposedly happen? I'm aware of the Occupy people being jailed, because they were vandalizing property (see the broken windows in Oakland, and feces found in churches/along sidewalks) but not about Tea Party or Paulbots in jail or detained?

Haven't you heard? They're all in the secret FEMA death camps.

I've said the same thing on my facebook, but 99% of the responders tell me I'm nuts.

You are. If you think the US is anywhere NEAR anything that can be described as tyranny, you have no clue what tyranny actually is. The irony is that anything which weakens the US will only give nations like China an advantage, and that's exactly what they're waiting for [nytimes.com] , and those aren't nations which respect anything resembling freedom or liberal democracy. Oh, I know: you'll say, "the US doesn't, either." I sincerely hope you don't get the world you wish for, because it will be one where you are far less free.

Re:Verified, and will continue (5, Insightful)

Nursie (632944) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686523)

What do you mean by "anything which weakens the US" ?

Because from where I'm watching, continued abuse of the US political system by monied interests (be they civilian or military-industrial) is weakening the US, weakening it's freedoms, weakening its civil rights, and weakening the prosperity of the majority of its people.

Re:Verified, and will continue (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686567)

I sincerely hope you don't get the world you wish for, because it will be one where you are far less free.

Read: "Do you have any idea how many of those little squint eyed chinks could have been hiding in your trunk?! Your refusal to let cops go through your belongings on a whim will allow China to overrun us all!!!1!"

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686579)

I highly doubt we are going to have tyranny in the U.S. as you define it. Subtle disenfranchisement and erosion of rights leading to a state that is being ruled by an almost monarchy-like corporate structure is on its way though. That way they can always point to the huge corporate oligarchy that are actually pulling all the strings and say "hey look! we still have free capitalism" and the idiots that wear teabags will believe them.

Re:Verified, and will continue (5, Insightful)

Loughla (2531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686783)

The problem is that the folks who have most of the money got a taste for tearing countries apart and sucking up their public sector at a profit. They did it in South America, they've done it in Europe a few times and have started that money train again, and they tried to do it in Asia. That leaves two more options for BIG money - try Asia again, but the last try was such a miserable failure because of the Asian Tigers and their propensity to buck the IMF's trend that rich folks don't want to deal with that shit again; or they could come to the US and break us down.

Right now, a lot of public money flows to private enterprise because of the military, but there's a shit-load more money there. Communications, transportation, energy and education are all cash-cows that they're just starting to seriously milk to varying degrees.

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686789)

Oh, how I wish I had mod points today to upvote this before the hivemind inevitably comes by and tries to convince Slashdot to reinstate the bug that allowed posts to get to -2...

Re:Verified, and will continue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686509)

http://www.eauclairejournal.com/news/story.phtml/403443CA/paul_wins_la_police_injure_supporters_hip/

Re:Verified, and will continue (3, Informative)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686527)

You need to read more than corporate media accounts before you decide to get so close to branding them a violent group of people. Every big demonstration attracts people who want to be violent who may or may not have anything to do with group itself. It sounds like you are taking the corporate media story of the events for granted.

And the issues at OWS goes way beyond wrongfully jailed person to police beatings, to police whose overtime is being paid by banks (which happened in New York), and all other types of problems. The corporate media *does*not*like* people that don't fall in line with their way of thinking.

Re:Verified, and will continue (1)

s.petry (762400) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686881)

When did this supposedly happen? I'm aware of the Occupy people being jailed, because they were vandalizing property

This hit the news pretty heavy in the Bay area as well as nationally. It discredits the OWS which is why it made big media. Did you know that the Oakland Occupy movement had no idea where most of the violent people came from and that most of the people arrested were not even from California, let alone Oakland? You can check, that is factual information, and was reported on main stream media as well as local media in the Bay area. The same exact thing happened in other areas with violent demonstrations with OWS.

For the rest, you can search for videos and discussion regarding detention. I have seen more out of NYC than anywhere else. As mentioned, proof is extremely difficult.

You are not nuts at all. The Noble Lie is a great story, and once people start to learn reality it's hard to go back to living an illusion. It is very easy to sit in denial and pretend nothing is wrong, or use bullshit stories to try and manipulate reality as someone did responding to you. Checking reality is extremely uncomfortable to people (read the Alegory of the Cave) and you will get the idea, we have known this same thing for thousands of years.

For people that doubt, I usually point the to the economy. People claim to want it fixed, yet absolutely nothing is done to fix the problem. NAFTA has been expanded, even though it harms the economy. People then tend to fall back to "you are just a protectionist" argument without ever thinking about the priorities a Government has to the people they Govern. It is called denial, and don't be fooled.. denial is a very real thing for a whole lot of people.

They have become what they fought... (5, Insightful)

jo42 (227475) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686131)

'Security has effectively become the State religion; you don't question it. And if you question it, then your loyalty is questioned.'

Sounds exactly like the conditions that people lived in under the rule of the Nazis and Communists. The "the land of the free and the home of the brave" have become what they fought so hard against - "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." Heil Amerika!

Re:They have become what they fought... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686253)

Sounds exactly like the conditions that people lived in under the rule of the Nazis and Communists.

Nope. Anyone who uses that argument doesn't actually study history. Christians used it when they took prayer out of school, did you know that (search for 26 similarities between America and Nazi Germany)?

Really, how many of you have been stopped at government checkpoints and asked to show your papers (except when leaving the country)? Further, if you failed to supply papers, were you under threat of arrest? How many of you have had your entire families deported or locked-up because of their religions or their views of the government? Can I call the feds and report my neighbor for being a collaborator if I want his house?

Stop feeding the panic and start fucking thinking.

Bad hyperbole = bad argument.

Re:They have become what they fought... (1, Informative)

dcsmith (137996) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686487)

Really, how many of you have been stopped at government checkpoints and asked to show your papers (except when leaving the country)? Further, if you failed to supply papers, were you under threat of arrest?

Just a guess, mind you, but maybe 10% of the Hispanic readership in Arizona?

Re:They have become what they fought... (1)

HarrySquatter (1698416) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686497)

Christians used it when they took prayer out of school, did you know that (search for 26 similarities between America and Nazi Germany)?

Which is hilarious since the lawsuits brought about in the 60s over school prayer and mandatory pledge of allegiance were mostly from members of minority Christian sects and those who were not Protestants. But those facts don't play very well among the mdern-day ACLU haters.

Re:They have become what they fought... (5, Insightful)

RabidReindeer (2625839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686663)

Sounds exactly like the conditions that people lived in under the rule of the Nazis and Communists.

Nope. Anyone who uses that argument doesn't actually study history. Christians used it when they took prayer out of school, did you know that (search for 26 similarities between America and Nazi Germany)?

Really, how many of you have been stopped at government checkpoints and asked to show your papers (except when leaving the country)? Further, if you failed to supply papers, were you under threat of arrest? How many of you have had your entire families deported or locked-up because of their religions or their views of the government? Can I call the feds and report my neighbor for being a collaborator if I want his house?

Stop feeding the panic and start fucking thinking.

Bad hyperbole = bad argument.

I hate to use the words "slippery slope", but Nazi Germany didn't just spring up overnight.

When I was young, you could apply for a job without having to "show your papers" or prove that you weren't guilty of being a drug addict. We gave away the presumption of innocence in the 1980s.

When I was young you could legally listen to any radio transmission you wanted to. Again, in the 1980s, that was changed to forbid monitoring cell-phone frequencies. Since then, almost all of the public service channels in my city, state and county are digitally encrypted from critical stake-outs and investigations all the way down to garbage collection and city buses. I learned a lot about how my city works from listening to the people I pay to keep it running. This year the city took the decrypting scanners away from the local newpaper and TV stations.

When I was young, the fortified fence was what Communist countries used and America's borders were famously open.

When I was young, US armed forces were supposedly "better" than Communist/Nazi forces because we treated prisoners fairly and didn't torture them. Torture, in fact, was unthinkable, even when faced with the very "agents of Satan" themselves.

Not everything was better back then. Especially if you were black, female or gay. But if the reality didn't always measure up, at least we had the ideals. Since 9/11, the ideals have been flushed down the toilet.

It may not be slippery - yet, but I'd definitely say it's a slope.

Re:They have become what they fought... (1)

k(wi)r(kipedia) (2648849) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686675)

I'm not saying your argument as a whole isn't sound, but this isn't:

search for 26 similarities between America and Nazi Germany

With the right keywords, you can produce "evidence" that current and past US presidents are saurian aliens in disguise. It would be far easier to point out the "similarities" between the USA today and Godwin's Germany.

Re:They have become what they fought... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686699)

Really, how many of you have been stopped at government checkpoints and asked to show your papers (except when leaving the country)?

Have you driven on a highway or used a subway recently in certain parts of the US?

Re:They have become what they fought... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686723)

Really, how many of you have been stopped at government checkpoints and asked to show your papers (except when leaving the country)? Further, if you failed to supply papers, were you under threat of arrest?

Well, there's:
1) anyone who travels by air
2) people driving along the highway in Illinois
3) people who ride a bus in several states in the mid-west
4) people driving along a stretch of highway in Texas that doesn't go anywhere *near* the border
5) more that I'm not bothering to list
6) very likely more that I'm simply unaware of at this time

Maybe you should pay more attention to what's actually happening before you start asking stupid questions.

Re:They have become what they fought... (1)

Loughla (2531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686875)

people driving along the highway in Illinois

I live in Illinois, and have never had to show my license unless I was pulled over for something like speeding, or some other traffic violation. What are you trying to reference with this?

They have become what they supported... (4, Interesting)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686417)

Who fought? And who supported. While volunteers American soldiers flew bombers at great personal costs to disrupt the Nazi war machine, American made ball bearings came in via Sweden in large enough quantities to offset the damage to production. While Americans born in the US with Asian ancestors were rounded up and killed if they disobeyed, the open Nazi Ford was never even questioned and his heritage continues to this day.

Yes, America fought in WW2 against the nazi's but it was not exactly undivided in this and those who think those who wished the US to not aid the Allied forces were pacifists is gravely mistaking. It always amazes me when people come up with alternate histories were the US does not enter WW2, the far more likely alternate outcome would have been the US getting in on the Axis side. What after all is the difference between "keine juden" and "whites only" in spirit? Hell, IBM supplied the lists, Americans supplied the gas, the idea of going "east/west" for "lebensraum", of concentration camps (don't make the mistake of confusing concentration with extermination) (indian reservations). America was far from a natural ally for the Allied forces. Not that most of the allied nations were much better.

Don't forget how hated Roosevelts New Deal was and still is in certain quarters, quarters that have only gained in power.

Right wingers are like the Mafia, they are still fucking there! Want some proof? South Korea's whaling plans. WHY? They had given it up for decades, their economy doesn't need it and they have no depressed areas where people need any type of job. So why? Because some people who never let go of the past saw an opening. They were stopped, this time... but they will not go away, will try again and again and again.

The fight for freedom never ends, because evil never stops. Not the evil that rapes and pillages but the evil that excuses it as being cultural or just the way things are or ignores it as being a fundemental part of the good old days the evil wants to bring back.

See Romney's entire election campaign. They are not back, they have never gone away.

Re:They have become what they supported... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686733)

Yes, the great FDR that forced everyone to sell their gold to the banks at 20 bucks per ounce then had the treasury (taxpayers) buy the gold from the banks for 30 bucks an ounce.

Please flag my "loyalty" as questionable... (2)

acidfast7 (551610) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686135)

for all of the NSA bots compiling all of the text associated with my username.

Re:Please flag my "loyalty" as questionable... (4, Funny)

oodaloop (1229816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686223)

Request confirmed. Please stand by for orbital laser strike. Have a nice day!

Re:Please flag my "loyalty" as questionable... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686271)

Not me. I'm loyal. To demonstrate this, I'm turning in acidfast7 as a terrorist sympathizer.

Reduce the signal/noise of the system to 0 ... (2)

acidfast7 (551610) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686371)

I'm just doing my part, as should you ... any monitoring system will fail when the "signal" is not perceivable above the background.

The correct thing to do is to "flood the system" with false-positives.

Er (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686155)

" 'Security has effectively become the State religion; you don't question it."

I think he's confused with global warming. (It might have been the tabloidising effect of RT.)

Re:Er (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686631)

go listen to Rush Limbaugh. You're not wanted here.

I was at William Binney's talk at HOPE9 (5, Informative)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686165)

It was a good talk. I found it interesting.

I think the big take away from his insights was that the root of this evil was the corruption that consumed the NSA, and the pressure to send money out to the military industrial complex that surrounds government agencies.

It seems to me, in the context of this article, that the security religion is used as a veil to hide that corruption. By now, they may be using doublethink to believe their own lies, but that is the root cause. To fix it, we have to remove the dirty ties between the NSA and the MIC.

He repeatedly said in his talk that no matter what he did to solve a problem, he was never allowed to call it solved. There was always more at stake, more danger around the corner that would be used to scare Congress into spending more money. As he said... keep the problem going so the money keeps flowing.

-d

Re:I was at William Binney's talk at HOPE9 (0)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686309)

It's pretty clear that most people commenting on Binney's talk have utterly no clue what NSA actually does, what its missions are, or, indeed, anything about it at all.

Re:I was at William Binney's talk at HOPE9 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686529)

WAIT WAIT WAIT. You're telling me that people ON THE INTERNET are knee-jerk reaction commenting on something that THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND??? That's not true. It can't be true.

Re:I was at William Binney's talk at HOPE9 (3, Informative)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686569)

You're right, I don't have a clue what NSA does inside. However, William Binney DOES. He worked there for many years. I'm just repeating what he said.

-d

And meanwhile, in TN... (3, Interesting)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686191)

... the Tea Party is pushing the governor to implement Nazi/Soviet/Insert Dictator Here, etc., style purges.

Because gays, democrats, and non-christians are evil, or something.

Fascism will come wrapped in the flag, and the ones purportedly against it like the Tea Party, are helping the security state and fascism along with gusto. They crave it.

Brown shirts for everyone.

--
BMO

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (1, Flamebait)

Chrisq (894406) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686269)

Don't but all into the same category. Whereas there is nothing wrong with gays, democrats, and most non-christians, Islam is totally evil . White converts to Islam become terrorists. Black Muslims in the Sudan are terrorists. Brown Muslims are terrorists. The one unifying factor is their war-like belief. Anyone who lives freedom and equality, and who has read the Quran and heard what the Muslim scholars and Imams say will hate Islam. Anyone who believes in the freedom of religion will hate the commands to kill apostates. Anyone who believes in the freedom of speech will hate the dictates and fatwas to kill those who condemn this vile religion. Anyone who loves equality will hate the subjugation of women, the punitive taxes on non-muslims, the banning of building non-islamic places of worship. Above all those who love peace will hate the continual call to kill, wage war, rape and injure.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (3, Insightful)

bmo (77928) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686367)

You really didn't understand a single word I said.

When the purges come, encouraged and led by people like you, they will not stop at just the people you yourself hate, they will continue until they meet up with you, personally. This was true during The Terror and every purge in history.

Here's your shirt.

--
BMO

Talking about Muslims? (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686819)

Your world view is to simple, just because someone has a brown skin, doesn't mean they can't be a Nazi. Holland was one of the most liberal nations on earth with its capital Amsterdam, gay capital of the world... attacks against gays have however changed that. Attacks committed by? No, not just Muslims. But a very high percentage of them. Right wing extremist have been working together with Muslim extremists. Oh, they are rare but they do happen.

And there is no rule the next Hitler can't be a Jew, gay, member of a trade union, female, brown or black or yellow. The biggest threat against freedom is that in promoting it, you give freedom to those who use it to enslave you. Ask the American Indians, if you can still find one, what happens if you welcome people with open arms without question. Ask why Christians still send out missionaries around the world but object when Muslims come into their churches to preach their fate.

The real world does not separate into black and white. You can't just guard against the white fat guy with a burning cross. Tyranny will come wrapped in a flag, carrying a bible and talking about freedom. Their freedom, not yours but good look you spotting that in time.

Your right "they" will keep coming until you are on their target list. But "they" are not restricted by race, color, religion or political system. Real freedom comes from fighting for the freedom of all while also fighting the freedom of all to restrict others. No, that doesn't make "sense", life generally doesn't. People who believe in absolute freedom often plain out refuse to discuss cases where this is clearly demonstrated to be unworkable. You want to support absolute freedom? Very well, I choose as my freedom to kill you, slowly. Stop me and you are denying me my freedom.

Bull? No, it fundementally shows complete and total freedom for all, does not work. The best we can hope for is some freedom, as long as it isn't to restrictive of the fredoom of others. After all, when I claim my freedom to kill you, I deny you your freedom to live. Why should my freedom overrule yours? Why should yours overrule mine? Because my freedom affects you to much but my non-freedom doesn't affect many others.

Complex eh? Yeah.

Do you know the real reason Amsterdam used to be gay friendly? Not because Holland loved gays, just not enough people could be bothered restricting them. The overal feeling among the working class was "I don't like gays anymore then you do, but touch one of your gays and I will punch your lights out". Not very enlightened but a LOT better then modern bleeding hearts who excuse Muslim violence and the fear of teachers in school to teach about homosexuality or WW2 for fear of Muslim reactions because they are unable to realize that just because someone is a minority doesn't mean they can't be a nasty little shit.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (2)

bbecker23 (1917560) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686473)

Oh really? The Qur'an would seem to disagree. http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_qura.htm [religioustolerance.org]

Of particular interest

"O mankind! We created you from a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know and honor each other (not that you should despise one another). Indeed the most honorable of you in the sight of God is the most righteous."
Chapter 49, Verse 13

and

"God does not forbid you to be kind and equitable to those who have neither fought against your faith nor driven you out of your homes. In fact God loves the equitable."
Chapter 60, Verse 8

or maybe you'd prefer

"Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden (paradise) whose width is that of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous - Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity or in adversity, who restrain (their) anger and pardon (all) men - for God loves those who do good."
Chapter 3, Verses 133-134

Terrible things have been done in the name of every belief, both religious and secular. I'd be more careful with the generalizations. They have a way have coming back to bite you. Or, you know, keep trolling.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (1, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686677)

Correction... *religious extremists* are evil. That term also covers the assholes who believe we should herd gays into concentration camps and let them starve.

There is nothing inherently evil about Christianity or Islam. As usual with the human condition, it's assholes that screw everything up.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (1)

MattSausage (940218) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686941)

I would suggest that the 'one unifying factor' in terrorism is their extreme disenfranchisement and hopelessness at changing their situation through legal means. Islam is not a unifying factor for all terrorists.. only Islamic terrorists.

There are non-islamic terrorists who kill people and blow up buildings. And there are peaceful and even feminist Muslims. I'm not sure that their religion really has a meaningful impact on terrorists' thought-processes. It's more of an excuse to commit terrorism against innocent civilians than a cause. They would be terrorists no matter their religion.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686383)

>>>the Tea Party is pushing the governor to implement Nazi/Soviet/Insert Dictator Here, etc., style purges. Because gays, democrats, and non-christians are evil, or something.

I find this difficult to believe. If you had said *the Republicans or Democrats* then I could believe it, but the Tea Party was started by libertarian Ron Paul in 2007, and spunoff as a way to fight for liberty in 2009-10. Not against it. LINK please to backup your claim. Or else retract.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (3, Insightful)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686719)

Ron Paul and today's "libertarians" are not libertarian by the traditional meaning of the world.

We need to call them what they are: corporate anarchists. Traditional libertarians didn't believe in elevating the rights of *any* institution (public or private) to that of the individual because it is dangerous and it would be a concentration of power. These idiots believe more in the rights of corporations than people.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686817)

Everything you said is essentially true. Unfortunately, the Tea Party has been co-opted and is now run by a combination of corporate interests and a bunch of uber-religious, anti-anything-not-them nutbags.

Plants and diversion (2)

s.petry (762400) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686405)

Proving something like this is extremely difficult, however something to investigate is how the Tea Party was changed after it's initial founding and the public response to the movement. Check the "leaders" that were appointed, public messages, etc... and see how they changed shortly after the movement gained momentum. Much of this work is already being done, but you have to find the information.

Historically we see very similar actions by other Governments and people (Nazi, Communism, Fascism, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc..). These take overs were not known to the public until after the fact. Call it sabotage or hijacking, the result is the same which ends with the movements being used counter to their initial purpose.

Another thing to consider is why we are all up in arms about issues that divert from the main topic of corruption. Instead of having people focus on the corruption we have people focusing on Liberals, Gay Rights, Race, and Religion. In my opinion, all of those things are an illusion to keep people from looking at the root problem.

Re:And meanwhile, in TN... (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686715)

... the Tea Party is pushing the governor to implements Nazi/Soviet/Insert Dictator Here, etc., style purge.

Er, if I read that correctly they are really unhappy about two Executive Service Employees, one of whom is a muslim and an expert in Shariah Compliant Finance, the other gay. Totally a Nazi/Soviet/Insert Dictator Here, etc., style purge. No hyperbole at all here.
 
And here is a better source... http://blogs.tennessean.com/politics/2012/county-gop-chapters-circulate-resolution-condemning-haslam/ [tennessean.com]

I expect to read lots of highly-modded posts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686209)

Yet, somehow anytime any candidate makes a peep about reeling back the military or intelligence industry in an election, they get crushed.

Re:I expect to read lots of highly-modded posts (1)

crazyjj (2598719) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686333)

anytime any candidate makes a peep about reeling back the military or intelligence industry in an election, they get crushed.

That's because their opponent immediately starts fear-mongering and calling them a pussy if they do. In the pre-1970 South politicians used to call that "niggering," as in which candidate can scare voters the most about the evil black menace that was going to rape their daughters if they didn't vote for their local race-baiter.

So where's the RT News link? (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686211)

That would have been nice to include, since it's an "RT interview"

Out of context (3, Insightful)

Jiro (131519) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686225)

The summary phrases it as though the person making the statement is stating his own position. In fact, he's attributing this position to the opposition.

It's like having a summary which says "(name): Muslims should take over the world" without mentioning that the quote is from someone who doesn't like Muslims and is attributing that idea to them, and is not a quote from a Muslim at all.

Re:Out of context (1)

Jiro (131519) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686301)

Correction: I meant the title.

Of course even Slashdot's summaries usually aren't that bad.

torrent? (2)

vlm (69642) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686245)

William Binney's keynote at HOPE 9,... Unfortunately, neither audio or video of the talk are available yet.

Officially or unofficially? Historically HOPE conference torrents are usually up by now. Whats up with that? I haven't bothered searching yet, but...

I always used to like listening to the mp3 audio version as if they're audiobooks, and I'm looking forward to my next batch.

Liberty and Justice for [REDACTED] (5, Funny)

Picass0 (147474) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686261)

I'm so glad I was born into the land of the [REDACTED] and the home of the [REDACTED]

A couple of notes... (2, Informative)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686291)

RT is Kremlin-controlled Russian state media. They love to do stories like this lately.

Second, Binney hasn't been at NSA since shortly after 9/11. And a LOT of stuff was happening immediately after 9/11. His statements to the effect that NSA is "building a dossier on every American" are not based in any sort of proof.

Also keep in mind that for NSA to perform its foreign signals intelligence mission — which INCLUDES discerning and targeting foreign communications within the US and on US equipment and networks, and does not require a warrant — mechanisms to identify that traffic are a necessity.

Furthermore, it is unlawful to collect, store, analyze, or disseminate the CONTENT of the communications of US Persons without a warrant. Period. This is not some kind of a joke.

("But they did it before!" Yes. To numbers of people in the hundreds, thought to have direct ties to terrorism, under a program asserted under the President's Article II authority under the AUMF, and briefed to Congress every 45 days. So to now say that NSA is wholesale building "dossiers" on EVERY American is a bit ludicrous. "But what about the data center in Utah? Did you see that article?" Yes. Yes I did. I have seen them all.)

That said, there are many things that may indeed be collected and analyzed without a warrant, including certain kinds of communications metadata. This is a simple fact, and is not a new construct. Doing this for phone records was affirmed by the Supreme Court in Smith v Maryland (1979).

So yeah, excuse me if I am suspect of something that is literally Russian propaganda pushing this story. That's completely separate from whether Drake had legitimate whistleblowing concerns. Whistleblowers being punished is, sadly, also not anything new.

Re:A couple of notes... (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686543)

Furthermore, it is unlawful to collect, store, analyze, or disseminate the CONTENT of the communications of US Persons without a warrant. Period. This is not some kind of a joke.

Are you so naive?? It is well know, that NATO allies are doing this for US. And US is doing this for US allies.

But lately, they don't even care to go around laws, just simply break them.

https://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying [eff.org]

Of course, EFF is a Kremlin controlled state organization bent on destroying the west, right? right??

I know, I know... pedantic (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686335)

Isn't the correct saying "speaking truth to power"?

American Freedom is dead (3, Insightful)

Eggplant62 (120514) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686357)

This is just a sad testament to what GW Bush helped to destroy -- a land of the free and home of the brave. Now it's the land of the slaves and home of the caged. Don't piss off your masters or you *will* be dealt with.

Re:American Freedom is dead (1)

Loughla (2531696) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686907)

Umm, being able to make that statement without fear of arrest, doesn't that mean that you have. . . . . . freedom?

All suspects are GUILTY (2)

Hillgiant (916436) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686375)

Otherwise they wouldn't be suspect.

James Madison for the win (2)

smooth wombat (796938) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686401)

I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.

Very unfortunate freeze-frame news crawl (1)

SomePoorSchmuck (183775) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686499)

Anyone else notice the very unfortunate freeze-frame placeholder before you start playing the video?
Because of where the crawl across the bottom just happens to be, the text on the frame appears at first glance to read as follows:

"WHISTLEBLOWER: GOVT FEARS MESSAGE
BUT INSTEAD PROSECUTES MESSENGER

IT'S BEHIND BOMBING THAT KILLED 6 U.S. TROOPS"

Bush opened a pandora's box with the Patriot Act. (1)

mitcheli (894743) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686511)

Politics aside, the Patriot Act opened a pandora's box and I sense that we will hear much more about Thomas Blake and his comments as time goes on, just as we dealt with the "Red Scare" when Mr. Hoover was in office, and various other Constitutional violations over time. Reading over what Mr. Blake did, he did try to follow the rules when whistle blowing and he let a LOT of people know who SHOULD have fixed the problem before he went public. And instead, he was prosecuted. But did the problems get fixed?

RT -- Russian propaganda machine. (1)

sageres (561626) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686617)

RT is a Kremlin propaganda tool, extension of RIA-Novosti, part of ITAR-TAAS, specifically created by the Soviet government authorities back in 1930s (TAAS news agency) for discimination of the propaganda across the globe. It has always been vicously anti-American, even when reporting on a real problems in American society.
There is practically no criticism against Kremlin or any politicians that are currently "in favor", however it and the rest of the TAAS news outlets (Pravda is the most known newspaper example), including the major TV stations are used as tools of punishment domestically in Russia and rallying forces hostile to the western governments internationally.
It is known specifically for coverage of conspiracy theories and interviews with extremists.

Re:RT -- Russian propaganda machine. (1)

Torvac (691504) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686713)

yeah propaganda vs. propaganda. i wonder which corrupt nazi regime will win this now.

I agree... BUT (1)

Bigsquid.1776 (2554998) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686679)

I agree with much of what this guy said. However his assertions that speaking truth to power draws wrath have been true forever... and more so in the past. If this guy would have blown the whistle on NSA wrongdoing in the 1950's he probably just would have disappeared. In my opinion, in the United States at least, it is less dangerous and easier today to "speak truth to power" than it has ever been.

That being said, we really need to put the breaks on the US spy machine and the US global empire in general. It costs too much and I'm just not interested in participating any more.

RT? I can't help wondering ... (1)

arielCo (995647) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686721)

I can't help wondering if RT could get such a candid interview (assuming they ever wanted to) from some ex-KGB. I guess it's up to each country's media to show the other side's dirt.

if you're suspicious until proven otherwise, then (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40686847)

if you're suspicious until proven otherwise, then by definition only people who have no proof of wrongdoing can be "suspicious" ; and, therefore, being proven otherwise puts you firmly into the "no proof of wrongdoing" category! Like any pessimistic categorization, the only categories are "suspicious" and "proven guilty" - though I suppose someone who has been investigated deeply with no wrongdoing found would fall into the "hard case to crack" category.

Re:if you're suspicious until proven otherwise, th (1)

0123456 (636235) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686951)

Well, duh. The whole point of a National Security State is that everyone is a suspect.

Flamebait (1)

fluffythedestroyer (2586259) | more than 2 years ago | (#40686933)

This type of article pukes out flamebait if you ask me !
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