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Gartner Analyst Retracts "Windows 8 Is Bad" Claim

timothy posted about a year ago | from the mmmm-kay? dept.

Microsoft 306

nk497 writes "A Gartner analyst made headlines after describing Windows 8 desktop as: 'in a word: bad.' After web reaction, including one story asking why anyone bothers to listen to the consultancy firm anymore, Gunnar Berger has now yanked the offending sentence from his blog post, saying it was taken out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard, and that overall Windows 8 is a good thing. 'If you look at my blog, I've gotten rid of it,' he said. 'It's upsetting me that it's being taken completely out of context.'"

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306 comments

Was it taken out of context? (4, Interesting)

Captain Hook (923766) | about a year ago | (#40747849)

Admittedly I tend to only read the tech related news sites but they all picked up on the same thing....

Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (4, Informative)

bigstrat2003 (1058574) | about a year ago | (#40747891)

I thought exactly the same thing. He has nothing to apologize for, Windows 8 is bad. It has one of the worst UI designs I've ever seen.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (5, Interesting)

blackicye (760472) | about a year ago | (#40748019)

I thought exactly the same thing. He has nothing to apologize for, Windows 8 is bad. It has one of the worst UI designs I've ever seen.

Frankly though, I don't really care about the UI, I've been using the Win2K classic mode since well..win2K.
There have already been user mods and themes to restore the classic interface.

I'm interested more in the kernel and stability/updates and underlying parts of the OS.

I've never liked Aero, or the ME or Vista interfaces or bloated junk like the OSX interface.

I'm not curmudgeonly enough to work purely in a CLI environment, I don't want my OS to look pretty, I want it to run applications, preferably faster and more stably than it's previous iterations on the same hardware.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (2)

Dog-Cow (21281) | about a year ago | (#40748199)

What's wrong with OS X? It's GUI is so sparse, I long for Windows when I have to use it. Now, the OS itself I like. I just think the GUI is stuck in the 80s.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (1, Informative)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about a year ago | (#40748357)

>>>What's wrong with OS X? It's GUI is so sparse,

Try running it on a 400 MHz Mac sometime. It's not sparse at all..... in fact it's slow as heck (you can actually see OS X draw the window). WinXP's desktop runs better at 400 MHz than OS X's desktop.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (5, Interesting)

sproketboy (608031) | about a year ago | (#40748503)

Why would anyone bother running modern software on 12 year old hardware?

Re:Was it taken out of context? (2, Informative)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about a year ago | (#40748651)

>>>Why would anyone bother running modern software on 12 year old hardware?

8 years old.
Same reason I climbed Mt. Everest. ;-) Also it's "green" to continue using hardware rather than throw it in a landfill. Plus I was mainly proving a point: That OSX 10.5's desktop runs slower than XP-SP3's desktop. OSX is not "sparse" at all.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748709)

You mean the same XP that was designed for a CPU at that speed? You do realize how OLD XP is? Perhaps you should run a version OS OS X from a decade ago and see if it's the same result?

Re:Was it taken out of context? (1)

blackicye (760472) | about a year ago | (#40748427)

What's wrong with OS X? It's GUI is so sparse, I long for Windows when I have to use it. Now, the OS itself I like. I just think the GUI is stuck in the 80s.

I didn't most of OSX, aside from the UI. As someone who only very recently started using a Mac (partially out of professional curiosity, partially to support semi-PC/Mac illiterate users)

But I immediately found most of it's evangelists claims of it being user friendly, more stable than windows etc to be almost totally marketing/fanboy rubbish.

For starters, trying to make a Shortcut (alias) to the desktop was one of the most counter intuitive things I've ever experienced in any UI. Also I once had to figure out why Dragon Age 2 wasn't working on a Macbook Pro, and that left me fumbling in the dark for almost an hour.

Game developer support for the OSX platform is also sorely lacking, and most of the Mac users I know have also given up and just caved in to using Bootcamp.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748253)

Frankly though, I don't really care about the UI, I've been using the Win2K classic mode since well..win2K.

Well, you'll feel right at home with Windows 8, and that same old Start menu bar that's been there since forever. It's a good thing they haven't decided to change that or anything....

Re:Was it taken out of context? (4, Insightful)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year ago | (#40748277)

Frankly though, I don't really care about the UI, I've been using the Win2K classic mode since well..win2K.

The UI is one of the most forefront things in Windows, and if theyre radically changing how applications are going to interact with the user (single fullscreen app, two contexts metro / regular, new widgets) thats going to affect 99% of users.

I mean maybe there are new commandline commands or powershell cmdlets, but Im going to go out on a limb and say those arent why people get a new desktop version of windows.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (5, Informative)

kdogg73 (771674) | about a year ago | (#40748307)

In the shadow of my main Mac tower (desktop publishing), I have an old Dell XPS B866 in my office running Win2k as my lowest common denominator, so I can test .doc, .xls and .ppt files in Office 2003. But talking about Windows UI? It was no frills, quick and to the point interface. I still think it was Microsoft's best OS. All it needs is some protocol updates and other under the hood stuff, it could last longer. Unfortunately, 12 years old, even Firefox developers wont throw it a bone.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748837)

Frankly though, I don't really care about the UI, I've been using the Win2K classic mode since well..win2K.

I see your point.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (5, Funny)

grcumb (781340) | about a year ago | (#40748213)

I thought exactly the same thing. He has nothing to apologize for, Windows 8 is bad. It has one of the worst UI designs I've ever seen.

Ah, Grasshopper, you fail to understand the zen of Gartner.

In order to be taken seriously, that they base their statements on nothing more than what people want to hear from them. Because they therefore illuminate the inner brilliance that every CEO knows must exist inside of them somewhere, Gartner becomes the top research agency in technology today.

It is not sufficient that Gartner, like a stopped clock, accidentally be right from time to time. No, they have achieved release from the wheel of torment that is reality. They strive never to be right. Gartner, my child, is the apotheosis of Wrong.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (5, Interesting)

Ken Hall (40554) | about a year ago | (#40748631)

In a previous job, where I was a tech manager, the management above me swore by Gartner. Nothing was done without their blessing. Unless, of course, the recommendation disagreed with one of their deep-seated "religious" biases.

In any case, dealing with Gartner was an interesting experience. I would call them and speak to an analyst about some product we were thinking of getting. The analyst would make vague pronouncements about "industry standards", and "best of breed", and "best practices", and usually vaguely recommend whichever product happened to be the front runner in that particular niche at that time. Then I would outline my reasons for choosing whatever product we had determined to be best for our needs. I could hear the analyst hanging on every word, and I just knew our reasoning would make it into the next round of recommendations.

They never gave me anything useful, their sole function seemed to be to validate whatever decision we had already made. In the couple of cases where they did make a serious recommendation in conflict with our plans, the company tended to ignore them and do what it pleased anyway.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (3, Funny)

postbigbang (761081) | about a year ago | (#40748695)

It actually went like this:

"Hey Gunnar-- Microsoft's check cleared the bank!"

"Oh shit! Where's the fcuking delete key!"

Re:Was it taken out of context? (2)

dubdays (410710) | about a year ago | (#40747959)

Admittedly I tend to only read the tech related news sites but they all picked up on the same thing.... Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.

Yes, it was definitely taken out of context. He was only referring to using the Metro interface with a mouse, and I totally agree with him. It is really, REALLY bad trying to deal with Metro when you can't use a touchscreen.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (1)

Aeros (668253) | about a year ago | (#40748023)

He could say he was making a bad (very bad) 80's reference and the term 'bad'='good' no...noones buying it?

Re:Was it taken out of context? (3, Interesting)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about a year ago | (#40748055)

>>>Windows 8 on a desktop just doesn't make any sense.

What about Android on the desktop? I bet Google could make a lot of money selling PCs with the ad: "Works just like your phone, with the same android interface you know and love." Win8's failure might by Google's chance to chip-away at Microsoft's desktop/laptop monopoly..... just as they chipped-away at Explorer's dominance on the web.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (2)

coastwalker (307620) | about a year ago | (#40748557)

Fine for an exec reading their email and calling people to tell them they are fired but utter excrement if you are a salesman, engineer, document writer, project planner etc. You know the useless scum that actually do the work and don't need stock options because we can just fire them and get someone more subservient to do the job. Yes windows 8 and Android will be fine for all organizations that don't actually do anything.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748063)

He has no spine.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (4, Interesting)

Monoman (8745) | about a year ago | (#40748113)

Metro on the desktop is fine if it is run as an app and has a dedicated monitor. :-) The desktop in Win8 should be full featured with Metro as an option. I can see Metro being used for kiosks maybe

Typical MS coming out with something totally new is that it always feels half baked. There is a reason why many people believe MS doesn't get things right until (at least) the third version.

Metro on the phones and tablets is another discussion entirely.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | about a year ago | (#40748221)

It's not even all that new. It sounds to me like a(n improved) copy of OS X Lion's Mission Control.

Re:Was it taken out of context? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748319)

Oh, it is, it is - it sucks even harder than Mission Control!

Payday! (3, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about a year ago | (#40747853)

I guess the Microsoft check finally cleared.

Re:Payday! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40747935)

More than likely the arrival of threatening letters from Microsoft lawyers.

Re:Payday! (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year ago | (#40748305)

Threatening lawyers would have 0 effect, as he would immediately have scores of Pro-bono lawyers lining up to defend his 1st amendment rights. The EFF immediately springs to mind.

Re:Payday! (2, Interesting)

oztiks (921504) | about a year ago | (#40748375)

I don't blame them though the nasty job critics do these days is really sickening.

I'm not sure what is with the trend to simply side with every and any Apple product and then have the competition try to create a iDevice "killer", then afterwards, 10 out of 10 times side with the iDevice in closing summary.

I mean the Nokia Lumia which is a great phone got shocking reviews for no real reason other than the fact its fashionable to trash Microsoft. Android devices left right getting the beat down, not factoring in price or purpose.

It's about time the critics stop it with this instant pro-Apple mantra and see devices for their differences rather than some half backed comparison.

For example retina performs poorly in direct sunlight and that many products out there have created solutions that perform better in the sunlight because that's what people want, or a critic complaining about 800px res on a phone vs 900px? What on a phone? A little handheld device that only sucks extra battery juice because of the extra pixels with no real world practical advantage...

It's good that there is some accountability with the comments and users being able to pull the footing out of under these critics sometimes. I remember seeing a Siri vs Tellme YouTube clip, where the reviewer didn't follow the regime of the Tellme interface and used phrases known to work on Siri. There was a huge backlash about it as it was unfairly compared and instead of retracting clip the idiot reviewer got back on YouTube and tried to justify his behavior, which only made him look like even more of a dick and further served to discredit him...

Re:Payday! (5, Interesting)

Tridus (79566) | about a year ago | (#40748491)

When the Lumia is capable of doing advanced things like have Skype receive calls without being a foreground app, then maybe I can take this seriously.

As it stands right now the Lumia and WP7 are just lousy phones. They're not up to par with the competition. They got better reviews then they deserved considering how many reviewers adored the thing, but the market didn't care.

Re:Payday! (1)

poetmatt (793785) | about a year ago | (#40747949)

pretty much. Gartner analysis has always leaned towards those who pay the most for the studies, in order to get in their magic quadrants.

Re:Payday! (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year ago | (#40747961)

These guys are Microsoft lapdogs. They are so biased that their analysis means nothing. When one of them speaks the truth about a product that looks like it will go down in flames he gets swatted down. This just proves what we have been saying about Gartner.

Re:Payday! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748611)

didn't these guys used to be called Data Quest back in the PCWeek days? If so, their nickname was often Data Guess and yes they were Microsoft lapdogs back then too. One of the original paid research shills.

Re:Payday! (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#40747967)

The interesting bit about the story of Gartner has always been how they continue to make money and be well-regarded as prognosticators while having a track record of being completely wrong and having opinions that are basically those of the highest bidder.

Re:Payday! (1)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about a year ago | (#40747993)

Well regarded by whom?

Oh.. well regarded by the upper IT head honchos spouting today's buzzwords.

Look at the track record of those guys. Not good.

Re:Payday! (1)

azalin (67640) | about a year ago | (#40748047)

The interesting bit about the story of Gartner has always been how they continue to make money and be well-regarded as prognosticators while having a track record of being completely wrong and having opinions that are basically those of the highest bidder.

Free markets at work? *ducks*

Re:Payday! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748323)

I've seen a few Gartner analysts consulting within other companies, and they usually help recommend decent kit, the most appropriate software for the job (regardless of their research) and often get sizeable discounts off the bill (again, regardless about who they write about). Of course there are probably bad examples too, just like this out-of-context one, but on the whole, there is a lot more to that and other research companies then easily mis-quotable headlines and forecasts, which are only that, a forecast!

Full statement of retraction... (-1, Flamebait)

jkrise (535370) | about a year ago | (#40748341)

From the analyst: I was quoted out of context.

Windows 8 is NOT just BAD
Windows 8 is WORSE than Vista, and that is an understatement.
Windows 8 is the WORST desktop OS from Microsoft - ever!

Some people care about what Gartner analysts say (4, Funny)

turkeyfeathers (843622) | about a year ago | (#40747863)

It's company policy at Gartner for the analysts give their website links to their mothers, so that someone will read their blogs.

Fatigue=suck (3, Insightful)

StormyWeather (543593) | about a year ago | (#40747881)

Hold your arm out in front of you for 20 minutes and tell me how great that touchscreen interface is.

Windows 8 is full of fail, just like the Nintendo power-glove, and for the same reason.

Re:Fatigue=suck (5, Funny)

Java Pimp (98454) | about a year ago | (#40747919)

Seriously! I get pissed when my kids touch my monitor screen with their sticky fingers. Now if I have to do it my screen is going to be covered in Cheetos dust.

Re:Fatigue=suck (2)

StormyWeather (543593) | about a year ago | (#40747981)

That's true. People that have to look at monitors all stinking day are very picky about having them clean, free of dead pixels, having them operating on the right frequency, set to the right brightness, right angle to view, etc. One of my coworkers accidentally touched one of my monitors the other day, and promptly apologized, and went to go get stuff to clean his fingerprint off it.

People that check their mail for a few minutes once a day could care less.

Re:Fatigue=suck (2)

azalin (67640) | about a year ago | (#40748087)

Kids, chocolate and touchscreens are not a good combination. Well actually not a whole lot of thing go very well with the first two...

Re:Fatigue=suck (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748115)

A fine Chianti?

Re:Fatigue=suck (1)

MistrBlank (1183469) | about a year ago | (#40747983)

really great. Imagine how toned everyone's arms will be as a result of this technology coming into our every day lives!

Re:Fatigue=suck (1)

Teresita (982888) | about a year ago | (#40748039)

People don't get enough exercise these days. Win8 on a desktop with the touch interface will help you build your trilaterals. No more getting sand kicked in your face by those Apple bullies.

Re:Fatigue=suck (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748863)

People don't get enough exercise these days. Win8 on a desktop with the touch interface will help you build your trilaterals. No more getting sand kicked in your face by those Apple bullies.

Are you suggesting that a Gartner analyst calling Metro "bad" is the insult that made a man out of Mac? (Atlas [blogspot.com] shrugs :)

Re:Fatigue=suck (1)

ethanms (319039) | about a year ago | (#40748125)

Hold your arm out in front of you for 20 minutes and tell me how great that touchscreen interface is.

The touch interface makes sense when you consider the rising popularity of the tablet form-factor, and potentially increasing number of non-traditional "desktops" such as Surface-like devices (which would be an ergonomic nightmare for long term use, unless they intend to patent a dual-display where your hands/arms sit on one interface flat to your desktop while your eyes view another display (in a more traditional position say 90-120* vs. your desktop) which would have some sort of an on-screen halo showing the positions of your hands/fingers so that you can coordinate what you're touching on the lower screen with your eyes on the top screen.

But yeah, in it's present form Win8's UI appears to be adding needless complexity to traditional laptop and desktop form factor PC's. So far for me it has been far more difficult to use and I fail to see how it will ultimately be a better interface than what we have already. I think MS' best bet would be to allow a full regression to the "traditional" interface in order to maximize potential adopters, at some point they probably don't care WHY people are buying Win8, just that they are... so why not have a full WinXP/7-UI mode available?

One thing I do love about Win8 is the new copy dialog--love to see the progress and measured disk/network speeds. I also think that the larger fonts make a good deal of sense given how usage is changing (it looks great on the PC in my living room connected to the TV).

Re:Fatigue=suck (0)

Richard_at_work (517087) | about a year ago | (#40748143)

In my day, I used a touch screen interface for hours at a time - we called them white boards.

No real issues with fatigue tho. That argument sounds like the same sort of ones we heard back when the first touch screen iPod was mooted (well before the iPhone and Touch hit - the rumours were based off a fake leak) about how no one would ever want to deal with finger prints on the same screen they viewed the content on. That worked out well...

Re:Fatigue=suck (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748249)

Please invite me to watch you take your monitor off its stand and rub it on your leg, ok?

Re:Fatigue=suck (2)

Megane (129182) | about a year ago | (#40748367)

The fatigue argument goes all the way back to light pens in the early '80s. If it was so good to use a vertical (or vertical-ish) touchscreen at a desk, we'd have all been using light pens instead of a mouse.

FWIW, back in the day I thought a drafting table style PC would be a good form factor. The closest we have is those monster iMacs, but they're vertical. I'd still rather use a laptop in a comfy couch.

Whatishhhh!!!!!! (1)

miffo.swe (547642) | about a year ago | (#40747895)

Thats the sound he heard after some pressure was put on them. The press dance to microsofts shots around their feet. Often with ms putting a bullet in their own foot at the same time.

Only bad for mouse & keyboard users? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40747917)

Well, I must be one of those Neanderthals then. ;-)

Mouse and keyboard? (4, Insightful)

OzPeter (195038) | about a year ago | (#40747937)

saying it was taken out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard,

Mouse and Keyboard??? Isn't that how 95% of the population is going to initially be using windows 8?

Re:Mouse and keyboard? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748275)

Windows 8 is an obvious knee-jerk reaction by Microsoft to the rise of the tablets and their fear that the world is moving on and they're going to be left behind out in the cold.

It's fail spectacularly (Windows ME) because it's going to fail on tablets (the market is already flooded with iOS and Android, they're coming very late to the party without any noticeable killer features to compete with - it'll be what the Zune was to the iPod) while alienating their existing main customer base (desktops), where all serious business work will continue to be done. If the GUI is really that bad that it actually impacts on productivity businesses will choose to hold their users back at Windows 7 until 9 comes out or until they switch to MacOSX/Ubuntu/whatever (much as we'd all love Linux to finally benefit from that, Apple are more likely to benefit). It's happened before - many businesses stayed on XP until 7 come out rather than use Vista.

Re:Mouse and keyboard? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748279)

saying it was taken out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard,

Mouse and Keyboard??? Isn't that how 95% of the population is going to initially be using windows 8?

Seeing as a lot of the coming Windows 8 PCs shown at Computex and other places do seem to have touch screens, be convertible between laptop/tablet use or have large multitouch gesture trackpads you can use as indirect touch screen.. I wouldn't be so sure about that. I don't expect that many to upgrade old machines, but that has been the case for quite a while with new Windows versions.

After testing Win8RC though, I don't understand the uproar. Basically the only Metro I see on my old traditional PC is the start screen, which works as an application launcher - big version of the old start menu - that you with one click launch away from and then stay in normal Windows desktop mode, which has quite a bit of improvements over Windows 7. For most of the time it is a better Windows 7 than Windows 7, and then the start menu has changed - from an expanding pop-up to fullscreen.

Pretty much (3, Informative)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about a year ago | (#40748383)

I have to say I actually agree with him both ways, that it is bad, but not completely.

So from a technical standpoint Windows 8 is great. It is fast, stable, and efficient. Cakewalk tested Sonar X1 on it and found an across the board performance improvement. They didn't recompile for it or anything, just used the current one, and in all tests 8 did better. They really seem to have done a solid job improving the technical aspects of the OS which is great, but 7 is already quite good.

The problem is the UI. Not only is it ugly, which maybe shouldn't matter to people but does, but it is not well designed for mouse+keyboard. They are trying to whack a tablet UI on to a desktop and for some reason they think that won't piss people off. So it isn't as pleasing to look at, and is less efficient to use than Windows 7.

So over all I think it is a "bad" OS in that people are going to hate it, and it is going to create this situation of "Windows 7 is the last good OS EVAR!" and it'll be harder to get people to upgrade than it normally is. However it is only bad because they are trying to use it to flog their tablets, the technical aspects are quite good.

For personal use I don't care, I'll just replace its UI with something else, but it annoys the hell out of me for work since it is going to make life more difficult. Users are going to hate it (they hate any change but they'll really make hell about this one) and then decide they never want to move off of 7.

Re:Mouse and keyboard? (1)

nurbles (801091) | about a year ago | (#40748799)

I assumed he meant that Windows 8 was only bad if it was used on an actual computer. I figure he meant that using it on toys like phones, tablets and xboxes will be great, though.

Context (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40747939)

"out of context and only applied to using the desktop with a mouse and keyboard, and that overall Windows 8 is a good thing."

What about the context is that 90%+ of Windows-based machines will be using mouse and keyboard as the input mechanism? Virtually nobody currently has touchscreen, very few are going to buy desktops / laptops with touchscreens in order to use Windows 8, and the amount of Windows 8 tablets that are sold will still amount to a very small percentage of the overall desktop / laptop market.

So, if Windows 8 is bad with mouse and keyboard...

Re:Context (1)

Deep Esophagus (686515) | about a year ago | (#40748229)

People always took Ralph Nader's statement out of context too. When he said "Unsafe at any speed", he didn't mean that all cars were unsafe; he only meant they were unsafe at any speed over 5 miles an hour. Outside of that, they're perfectly safe.

No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (-1, Troll)

na1led (1030470) | about a year ago | (#40747941)

Most of us who have tried Windows 8, know how bad the UI is. Microsoft is trying to polish this Turd, and wants you to like it.

Re:No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748005)

you can polish a turd all you want, but underneath it's shiny exterior, it's still a piece of shit.

Re:No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (2)

Keruo (771880) | about a year ago | (#40748153)

Most of us who have tried Windows 8, know how bad the UI is.

Have you actually tried it, or are you just parroting what other people have said about it?
I've been using Win8 for few months on my netbook and it seems fine to me. Metro is just start menu with some extra bells and whistles and after few weeks you don't really even pay that much attention to it.
The integration with skydrive and easy migration of user settings/files etc are what make it great os compared to previous versions.

Re:No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748393)

I have used it. My main machine at home has been running it for months and I've had several work machines running various builds from early alphas through the Release Candidate. Metro with a mouse and keyboard is indeed stupid. I can see it being OK for slate / tablet type devices - it makes sense there. It doesn't make any sense when coupled with an accurate pointing device like a mouse or trackpoint. It is terrible for ergonomics in that things like a normal (Win 7) right-click, run as administrator require a click, then a mouse trip all the way to the bottom of the screen, then another click. This type of absolutely thoughtless (dumb) move is all over the UI. Once you actually get to the Win 8 desktop, everything is fine and the OS does have many improvements and enhancements. However I find that I end up with shortcuts and pinned taskbar items for damn near everything I use so that I don't have to go to Metro. Another example - how do you put the machine to sleep or turn it off? Move the mouse to the bottom right corner. Wait for the charm bar. Move up into the charm bar. Click "settings", click "Power", click "sleep". Really? Really? Under settings you should find - oh, I don't know - maybe the SETTINGS for power? For example, "balanced", "high performance", etc. And they should not hide the options to actually shutdown the machine behind so many clicks in illogical places. Metro is indeed just bad for mouse users like the guy said.

Re:No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (1)

Outtascope (972222) | about a year ago | (#40748645)

Wait for the charm bar.

Seriously? Charm Bar? WTF is this, the Webkinz desktop? To quote the only authoritative source on such things:

"I believe you'd get your ass kicked sayin' something like that, man."

Re:No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (0)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#40748595)

I tried it. it sucks for general computing. if I wanted a fucking media hub I could run plex on my workstation-type laptop. I don't want start menu to take up the entire screen.

the smaller the screen the less it sucks. the more your computer is like a traditional workstation, and used like one, the more it sucks.
and really do I want a fucking live account attached to everything? no. half of win8 is just force feeding you with online services and the other half is throwing half of your screen space away because empty is pretty.

Re:No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (1)

zlives (2009072) | about a year ago | (#40748657)

i have tried it as well, and even though i really like the guts of win7 optimized the UI does not work well for doing actual work.

Re:No, we understand the "Context" just fine. (0)

na1led (1030470) | about a year ago | (#40748851)

I've been using Windows 8 for 6 months on my Thinkpad X60 tablet PC, and it sucks. I've been trying to get used to it, hoping that maybe I just need a little time with it, but I can't stand it. Only reason I still keep it on is because I have to evaluate this new OS for my work.

God is just (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40747999)

God says...
C:\Text\BIBLE.TXT

  the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest,
whose waters cast up mire and dirt.

57:21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.

58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew
my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.

58:2 Yet they seek me daily, and delight to know my ways, as a nation
that did righteousness, and forsook not the ordinance of their God:
they ask of me the ordinances of justice; they take delight in
approachin

only applied to desktop with a mouse and keyboard (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about a year ago | (#40748007)

Yes.
And?
That's exactly what I'll be using Windows 8 for: My desktop and laptop. If it is "bad" for that task then I won't be buying it. This reporter should not retract his honest opinion of Vista the Second (Win8). Unless he's being threatened by Microsoft?

Re:only applied to desktop with a mouse and keyboa (1)

synapse7 (1075571) | about a year ago | (#40748389)

Windows 7 will be the next "XP" that we will be using 15 years down the road...

Re:only applied to desktop with a mouse and keyboa (1)

zlives (2009072) | about a year ago | (#40748669)

yup or ms will release a win 8 sp1 update that enables desktop mode?

Professional integrity (4, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about a year ago | (#40748051)

This is why we all need to say what we mean, and mean what we say. Otherwise we lose our credibility. Whether Berger didn't really mean Windows 8 with keyboard and mouse is "bad," or he did mean it and is now recanting under pressure, looks bad either way. He's not only harmed his own reputation, but his employer's as well.

Re:Professional integrity (1)

usuallylost (2468686) | about a year ago | (#40748711)

He may have damaged his reputation. Gartner's reputation is exactly in line with this sort of thing. I pretty much don't take anything they have to say seriously anymore. To many of their "learned" pronouncements just haven't passed the laugh test over the years.

He KNOWS what he said (1)

Trip6 (1184883) | about a year ago | (#40748745)

He knows what he said, and he knows he's right. Now he doesn't have the balls to stand in - either personally because of public reaction, and/or professionally because he was threatened by the MS -> Gartner chain of command.

Gartner (2)

Keruo (771880) | about a year ago | (#40748079)

I started ignoring everything stated by Gartner when they announced something in lines with "Companies shoud switch to Windows Vista as soon as possible, in order to avoid costly migration later"

Good Thing He Didn't Say It (0)

assertation (1255714) | about a year ago | (#40748149)

..on Slashdot, he would have gotten modded down as a "troll" for simply stating his opinion of Windows 8 as being bad.

Same thing happened to my last week for saying that while I was not a fan of Apple as a prelude to commending them for the support for the blind in the iPhone.

In a word (1)

slashmydots (2189826) | about a year ago | (#40748159)

If I had to describe using a desktop without a mouse and keyboard, I would have to say: BAD! I can type 98 WPM on a keyboard and when gaming with a mouse, I make joystick users on the Xbox look like penguins trying to play using their wings. But I guess it's common knowledge at this point that the resounding theme out of the market research is "people want SLOW!" The slower the better! The longer it takes to type out a wall post on Facebook, the longer the user gets to enjoy it.

Re:In a word (5, Insightful)

Outtascope (972222) | about a year ago | (#40748529)

Ding Ding Ding! Bob, we have a winner! E. Fish. ANSII. Touch is not and cannot be practical for most business/office applications. Yes, it rules for Angry Birds and Draw Something, maybe even for your calendar (provided you are only viewing). But it is an awful interface for anything that requires typing and makes multi-tasking nearly impossible. Copy and paste on touch is the gonorrhea of computing. Just look at how crappy Autocad has gotten over the last 10 years or so where they have tried to move everything to a point-and-click use paradigm. It sucks balls, I spend an hour everytime I install it disabling all of the new UI crap they put on it because it just isn't efficient. I can't wait to see the cesspool that they create for it on Win8.

I think touch it is fantastic on tablets, but not the friggin' desktop. And even there, the dozen or so people in my office that have tablets all end up getting keyboards and mice for them (myself included on my ICS Android tablet) because they simply can't get stuff done quickly enough with touch.

Leave it to Microsoft to finally get something right (Windows 7) and then throw it away.

Bow to you masters... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748191)

This retraction is why I will never pay a damn bit of attention to you again. Stick to your guns or shut up. I don't need anymore yes men out there. Coward.

context (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about a year ago | (#40748227)

He meant "Windows is bad" in the same way James Brown is bad, right?

Please, how do you take "Windows is bad" out of context?

Then he tries to retract by saying "I meant in the context of a keyboard and mouse". Well who does he think uses Windows? Are we all going to start interacting with Windows 8 via neural link?

I do agree with questioning why anybody would listen to a consultant's blog. They're looking to get attention and after a while, you have no choice but to say something that you know will get attention. (See: television)

Don't RTFA (1)

cpu6502 (1960974) | about a year ago | (#40748285)

There's a stupid popup ad that won't go away, and I don't see an "X" to close it. (But then again maybe the problem is with Opera browser.....)

Bad move (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748451)

This is a bad move on the author's part. Pulling his statement shows he isn't willing to stand by his opinion. If the quote really was taken out of context that is not his problem, it's the foolishness of others. If it was taken in context and was wrong then he shouldn't have written it in the first place. Pulling his statement means either he wrote something that wasn't true or public opinion means more to him than the truth. Either way I can't respect a writer who does that. I write articles and reviews that get flak, it's part of the job. But if something is true I'm not going to pull it just because some idiots don't like it.

Different = Bad? NOT! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748517)

To be honest I stopped putting much faith in reviews, blogs and assorted opinions long ago and now test drive software myself (either demos or on other people's machines). I do this because for me "different" isn't "bad" ... bad is when software crashes or simply doesn't do what I need it to do.

I've been using Windows 8 on my desktop since it was first publicly available and I am impressed with it's performance improvements. The UI is different, not bad. I have found ways to do everything I did in Win 7 with very little effort. Please ... if you're going to rant endlessly about the UI, one extra click or having something located in a different menu ... get over it and learn to adapt. Software evolves, so should we.

It IS bad (1)

Tridus (79566) | about a year ago | (#40748543)

Gartner is a joke, and this retraction is just another in a long list of mistakes they've made. They're known for saying whatever people want them to say, and in this case since Microsoft pays the bills they can't leave bad things about Windows 8 floating around out there.

Too bad it really does suck with a mouse and keyboard. And hey, Metro apps get suspended if they're not in the foreground. So you won't be doing background work either. The whole desktop version of Windows 8 is just the revenge of Vista. It's a disaster driven by poor leadership that's desperate to try and get somewhere in the tablet market and willing to throw their desktop users under a bus to get there.

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748721)

In other related news, the internet called him up at his home and asked him "Why are you so stupid?"

the real story - it's going to ship this way (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#40748723)

had he left it as it was then there was hope that Microsoft would change the mess of a UI on their desktop version. But since he as corrected his blog, and it's very likely he was asked to do so, this leads to the belief that desktops will get Metro as default. Another fine example of Microsoft trying to leverage the desktop to help a flailing new product. Most of you know that Windows 8 Metro apps will run on Windows Phone 8 and without apps, Windows Phone 8 will sink faster than Windows Phone 7. What we are seeing here is yet another case of Microsoft determining what is best for users by deciding what's best for their wallets and their market share. So Windows 8 really is "bad".

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