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US Gov't Says They Can Still Freeze Megaupload Assets If the Case Is Dismissed

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the taking-your-toys-and-going-home dept.

Government 530

The Megaupload case continues, and on Friday attorneys for the U.S. government made some interesting claims. They were in court to argue against a request to dismiss the indictment against Megaupload that was raised on the grounds that Megaupload has no U.S. address. After a debate about jurisdiction and precedent, this happened: "The government also argued that it could keep Megaupload in legal limbo indefinitely. 'None of the cases impose a time limit on service,' the government's attorney told the judge. Therefore, the government believes it can leave the indictment hanging over the company's head, and keep its assets frozen, indefinitely. Not only that, but the government believes it can continue to freeze Megaupload's assets and paralyze its operations even if the judge grants the motion to dismiss. That's because in the government's view, the assets are the proceeds of criminal activity and the prosecution against founder Kim Dotcom will still be pending. The fact that the assets are in the name of Megaupload rather than its founder is of no consequence, the government claimed."

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Yeah Okay (5, Insightful)

TemperedAlchemist (2045966) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799019)

Telling the court that you're going to circumvent the law in the case you lose probably isn't going to be so swell.

Re:Yeah Okay (5, Informative)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799051)

Telling the court that you're going to circumvent the law in the case you lose probably isn't going to be so swell.

 
Except when you are Uncle Sam
 
... just saying ...
 

Re:Yeah Okay (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799097)

hey thanks for quoting the post RIGHT ABOVE YOURS fucktard, when your pointless waste of bits is folded down all it says is RE, which I assume means retarded

Re:Yeah Okay (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799403)

hey thanks for quoting the post RIGHT ABOVE YOURS fucktard, when your pointless waste of bits is folded down all it says is RE, which I assume means retarded

Does that bother you?

Re:Yeah Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799571)

It makes sense to do that in case the parent is modded down below threshold like you. See, it looks like I'm responding to the wrong comment.

Re:Yeah Okay (5, Interesting)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799071)

Yeah pretty interesting view there huh? Not only are they saying that they're above the law. But they're saying that the highest law in the land, is no longer the constitution and bill of rights. But the DOJ, and the whim of whoever is in charge. Yeah ... now that's going to go over very well, especially about the time it starts hitting appeal courts.

Re:Yeah Okay (4, Insightful)

dryeo (100693) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799583)

Wasn't it Andrew Jackson who, when the supreme court ruled against him, made a comment along the lines of "and with what army are they going to enforce that ruling with?" and proceeded to ignore the courts ruling.

Re:Yeah Okay (5, Informative)

UPZ (947916) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799155)

Guilty until proven....who needs to prove anything anymore? The govt decides who is guilty and who is not. We have a tyrannical govt at home and doesn't matter if it's headed by bush or obama.

Re:Yeah Okay (5, Insightful)

pla (258480) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799207)

Guilty until proven....who needs to prove anything anymore?

Welcome to the world of "civil forfeiture". Property has no rights, so charge the property with the crime. The DEA's done it for about two decades now.

That said, the present case does seem to go a bit further than even that - At least in normal civil forfeiture, If by some miracle you can prove that the property had nothing to do with a crime, you can theoretically get it back; With Megaupload, the government hasn't even allowed for that nigh-impossible standard of winning.

Re:Yeah Okay (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799439)

An interesting thing this business of owning property. Here in Canada I still own my house in what is called fee simple. That's what it says on the deed.

If I understand what I've heard correctly, deeds in the States are just made out to "Tenant". All you bought is the right to be the primary tenant in the house. This goes along with other comments I've heard that you cannot actually own anything in the States any longer. Is this true? Do any of you have Deeds that just say "Tenant" when you thought you should be the Owner. Of course, this makes it easier for the Government to confiscate your property since it was never yours in the first place. They just evict you as a bad tenant.

Perhaps this is only the case for recent home purchases and there are still some people who own their property outright?

Re:Yeah Okay (3, Funny)

laron (102608) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799465)

Umpteen years ago, I read that during the middle ages animals and even the weather were sometimes brought to court to answer for their crimes. I think, I understand now the motivation behind charging a pig with, say, heresy. In a word: Bacon.

Some things don't change.

Re:Yeah Okay (5, Insightful)

DViper01 (898486) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799219)

To me as a European it is baffling how much sh*t you Americans take from your government and never take action. Since G.W. one law or incident after another is passed against the interest of the population and the only thing people do is complain a bit on the internet. Have you guys ever heard of the possibility of demonstration, strike and not voting for the dumbest b*tch around? Sorry, that was emotional but that's how I feel when I read stuff like that. Now mod me to hell.

Re:Yeah Okay (4, Insightful)

superdave80 (1226592) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799263)

Since G.W. one law or incident after another is passed against the interest of the population...

Oh, this has been going on WAAAAAAY before ol' Dubya stepped foot into the White House...

Re:Yeah Okay (2, Insightful)

JohnVanVliet (945577) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799279)

no kidding

it IS time for a new revolution
this time the "well armed militia " will do what it was intended to do
remove a govt that is TOO corrupt and can NOT be fixed

some corruption one can NEVER get ride of fully
BUT
what we have now is not even in the shadows

Re:Yeah Okay (5, Insightful)

jamesh (87723) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799313)

remove a govt that is TOO corrupt and can NOT be fixed

How do you see this removal of government taking place? Sure, you could maybe round up enough of your militia to kill them all, but what then? Decades of education neglect has left you with a nation of morons and I guarantee that whatever you try and replace your government with, it will be worse. There are some drug lords in Mexico who might like to take a stab at leadership, if that helps.

I'm not disagreeing that there is a problem, and it needs to be fixed, and I don't know how you would fix it, but the moment you get out your guns and start shooting you'll have much bigger problems than you have now.

btw, kudo's on not posting anonymously when you are publicly inviting violent revolution. If you don't hear hammers batter down the door (you'd better run!) in the next few hours then you don't have it as bad as some countries.

Re:Yeah Okay (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799481)

There probably wouldn't be a wholesale coup d'etat of the entire American Government. It would more likely end up being States or groups of States ceding from the United States to set up shop on their own. There have been States already that have barely missed passing their own legislation that would give themselves the power to create their own currency, to recruit their own standing army and there are other states passing State Sovereignty Bills that are stating explicitly the things that they feel are in their rights to oversee rather than have the federal government take them over because no one was looking.

In other words, the fall of the current federal level of the American government won't issue in a whole new federal government but more likely result in the balkanization of the United States into a group of smaller countries that have their own local best interests at heart.

Who needs hammers (2)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799517)

Who needs hammers if all that's required is your name on the wrong list? He won't be able to fly, get a government or bank job and will probably be unable to get a job flipping burgers starting Monday if they'd take him seriously.

Re:Yeah Okay (1)

interkin3tic (1469267) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799449)

According to this [infoplease.com] , voter turnout only barely gets over 50% during presidential elections. During off-years, it's down below 40%. I'm guessing voter turnout is even lower for primaries, which is, of course, where most of the decision-making for most elected positions are made.

Violent revolution is the only way to get rid of the corruption? I don't see how you can say that. We haven't really given voting a fair shot. Furthermore, if we're too lazy to bother voting, I don't really see us doing a revolution right. I'm dead certain we'd end up at the exact same place in a few years, just short a good chunk of the population.

Re:Yeah Okay (1)

dryeo (100693) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799627)

You don't need to pull out the guns if the majority is on your side now a days, massive protests along with general strikes etc. This also has the advantage that it is a lot harder to convince the army to shoot peaceful protesters. This is how all the dictatorships in Eastern Europe were brought down.
Of course if the majority is not on your side...

Re:Yeah Okay (1)

Jedi Alec (258881) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799635)

it IS time for a new revolution
this time the "well armed militia " will do what it was intended to do
remove a govt that is TOO corrupt and can NOT be fixed

Oh please. The Americans can't even be bothered to *vote* in their own best interests, what makes you think they can be bothered to pick up a firearm and revolt in an organized fashion?

The best part is the other countries where I see politicians holding up the US as a wonderful 2 party system where shit gets done. Because it's the kind of shit that politicians *want* to do instead of what they *should* be doing.

Re:Yeah Okay (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799305)

Americans are dumb lazy fucks. Nuff said. I'm NOT proud to be an "American".

Re:Yeah Okay (1)

Lando (9348) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799365)

Demonstrations don't work when you have to hold them in free speech areas located far away from anyone that actually might pay attention. Got rid of those pesky protesters long ago, except of course in the case where the powerless are attacking other powerless people, e.g. funerals of peons and stuff like that. Strikes don't work because your job was sent overseas long ago, gotta be employed to strike. Voting doesn't seem to work since the government rigs elections by setting voting districts, only allowing two parties, etc.

Best means left available is a gun, or so it seems, and most people aren't ready to take that step.

Re:Yeah Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799407)

Demonstrations don't work when you have to hold them in free speech areas located far away from anyone that actually might pay attention. Got rid of those pesky protesters long ago, except of course in the case where the powerless are attacking other powerless people, e.g. funerals of peons and stuff like that. Strikes don't work because your job was sent overseas long ago, gotta be employed to strike. Voting doesn't seem to work since the government rigs elections by setting voting districts, only allowing two parties, etc.

Best means left available is a gun, or so it seems, and most people aren't ready to take that step.

As long as they still have something to lose they won't.
When that moment comes, it will be the only natural conclusion for many.

Not that it will do anyone any good. Anyone capable of leading a violent mob to destroy the government, is obviously worse than that government, so you are replacing bad with worse.

Re:Yeah Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799507)

Here's a quote I'm not certain of the source of but it seems applicable, "Democracy depends on four boxes; soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Use in that order."

Re:Yeah Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799629)

We don't have to protest only in free speech zones. That's where the government wants us to protest. If we protest in a sensitive place, we'll get arrested; that never stopped the people who were serious about their protesting. Protest wherever you want. If you get arrested, then that's the price of progress.

Re:Yeah Okay (3, Informative)

darkfeline (1890882) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799393)

No, we who complain on the Internet are the minority who realize the sh*t going down. Let me as an American explain to you as a European how power is distributed in the US. Government has primary power, but everyone in government is paid off my corporations, who hold "secondary" power, in reality primary power. While technically US citizens vote for their representatives, most of America is not like us complaining on Slashdot, but the stereotypical white conservatives sitting in front of the TV with their neat little 4 people families washing away their brain fluids with media, which is paid for by the corporations. Come election time, guess what? they vote for the same people paid off by the corporations.

Re:Yeah Okay (0)

metrix007 (200091) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799397)

Sure, because Europeans don't also get shit on by their government. I love the whole US bashing by Europeans, most of who have never been to the US and know little of what they speak.

Look at the shit going on in the UK with internet censorship, photographers rights, the unilateral extradition agreement etc. (And stfu if you want to try and say the UK isn't Europe). Hell, censorship is a problem is most of Europe. The 3 strikes law is also pretty sad.

The fact is democracy is a terrible solution, in the EU or US. Corruption is paramount in both states(while the EU is not a country, it qualifies as a state in many ways) as well as voter apathy.

Why don't you do your own part "as a European" before ragging on the US?

Re:Yeah Okay (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799581)

Funny how the 3 strikes laws in Spain and France were pushed for by the US govt.

Re:Yeah Okay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799605)

Demonstrating, and striking are illegal now, and voting is rigged anyway. I still remember Florida.. I'm not going to forget either

Biden is toast (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799323)

It's one thing to uplift the platform and get the president elected. It's a whole other thing to be a fucktard at re-election time.

Re:Yeah Okay (1)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799385)

This is why you pay good lawyers. We're probably about three judges from who's going to really try ths case.

The goverment (5, Informative)

santax (1541065) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799025)

should be brought to justice... This is insane and a clear message from the government to everyone: You have NO rights at all! Time to fight terrorism people and it starts at home.

How would you define "Justice" ? (-1, Troll)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799073)

You said:
 
 

The government should be brought to justice...

 
Well, how would you define "Jusice" ??
 
Does the decision of court / judge amount to "Justice" ?
 
If yes, then there are thousands and thousands of Judges / Courts that would side with Uncle Sam
 
If no, then how are you going to achieve "Justice" ??
 

Re:How would you define "Justice" ? (1)

pspahn (1175617) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799103)

Pretty much just exploding termites.

I think I saw that in a Loony Toons episode once.

Re:How would you define "Justice" ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799115)

no shit he said that we can SEE THE POST, care to post more than 2 words genius fucknuts?

Re:The goverment (2)

BlueStrat (756137) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799157)

[The government] should be brought to justice... This is insane and a clear message from the government to everyone: You have NO rights at all! Time to fight terrorism people and it starts at home.

Agreed.

But, don't be in any hurry to violence. Use the four boxes in defense of liberty in the order established. At this point, Ghandi achieves more than Patrick Henry. Don't provide a convenient excuse for the government to declare martial law and roll out the Nat. Guard.

But if we are finally forced to the last box, don't forget ol' Pat.

As for myself, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees, but at the same time I'll not sacrifice myself prematurely in a stupid act of individual violence that achieves little or nothing.

Strat

Re:The goverment (1)

santax (1541065) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799171)

I happen to own a surf-green strat, so I paid a lot of attention to your post and you are right. Don't bring out the guns. Yet. But something has to be done and the only force (and this is not the USA alone) are the people... It's revolution time as far as I'm concerned.

Re:The goverment (3, Insightful)

BlueStrat (756137) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799303)

I happen to own a surf-green strat, so I paid a lot of attention to your post and you are right. Don't bring out the guns. Yet. But something has to be done and the only force (and this is not the USA alone) are the people... It's revolution time as far as I'm concerned.

o/t - Nice. Actually, any strat I pick up becomes a "blue" strat ;) My strat is actually finished in a cherry/gold-burst. But it's a blue strat all the same. Same with the vacuum tube amp I built.

Back on-topic, you're point about it being all people, not just Americans, is spot-on. There is an international freedom movement growing. Did you know there are Italian "TEA Parties", as well as Serbian, Georgian, British, and about 15 other national TEA Party movements? There are reported to be 20 of them meeting this weekend in Dallas, TX.

People across the globe are hungry for freedom, and their governments have been starving them for too long. And once again, they look to Americans as examples of how to become free.

Failure is not an option. Fortunately, all we really have to do for victory is to remember, and never again forget, who we are as a people, why our Constitution was written the way it was, and what we stand for. Our failure to remember is what has brought us to this point. It is what must first change before anything else will.

An idea, a dream of freedom and liberty, is far more powerful than any weapons in any government armories or airbases ever could be.

Strat

Re:The goverment (4, Interesting)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799341)

But, don't be in any hurry to violence. Use the four boxes in defense of liberty in the order established. At this point, Ghandi achieves more than Patrick Henry. Don't provide a convenient excuse for the government to declare martial law and roll out the Nat. Guard.

But if we are finally forced to the last box, don't forget ol' Pat.

"Ballot" was rendered inert as soon as we adopted the two-party, first-past-the-post system.

"Soap" stop being useful with the incestuous relationship between Corporates and Government.

So tell me how this story isn't pretty compelling evidence that "Jury" is FUBAR, too?

Wait what? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799029)

Guilty until proven innocent?

Re:Wait what? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799595)

You mean Guilty even if proven innocent.

Who needs the law? (4, Insightful)

margeman2k3 (1933034) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799037)

Who needs things like laws and due process when the government can just shut down your business without them?

Re:Who needs the law? (3, Interesting)

rahvin112 (446269) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799321)

We have hope yet.

If NZ unfreezes DotCom's NZ assets he will have the resources to fight this case all the way to the supreme court. This is exactly the type of case we need to undo the illegal forfeiture laws in this country with a clear cut case of government abuse. Don't get me wrong, Dotcom's hands aren't clean, but I've never liked how the government proceeds with asset forfeitures to take away the defendants ability to defend themselves.

Re:Who needs the law? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799567)

Given their ruling on eminent domain (among other cases), I think you have a little too much faith in the current Supreme Court to strike down forfeiture laws.

'Murica... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799039)

Fuck yeah.

IANAL, but, (1)

snaildarter (1143695) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799045)

"The fact that the assets are in the name of Megaupload rather than its founder is of no consequence, the government claimed," will probably not work. Golly, I've been waiting a long, long time to make an IANAL comment on Slashdot.

Re:IANAL, but, (1)

SealBeater (143912) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799163)

But I thought corporations were people....

Re:IANAL, but, (1)

TechNit (448230) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799193)

Well if that's the case then all the employees of MegaUpLoad are free to go and the gubmint can prosecute the "Corporation"!!

Re:IANAL, but, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799579)

In the same sense that objects are atoms. That doesn't mean objects and atoms are one and the same. Neither does saying corporations are people. It means they are composed of people.

Corporations are a collective group of people. Formed by agreement. A group of people can exercise many rights collectively, but not all. A group can own property collectively, but can't vote collectively. As shorthand, we say that corporations have the rights of an individual, when really they have rights as an extension of the members.

When people start talking about corporations as people, meaning they are one and the same, they are either ignorant or being deliberately obtuse. It's a great idea to limit and control corporations. But we should be very very cautious to not inadvertently also restrict personal rights or rights of groups (from ACLU down to you and a buddy chipping in together to take a road trip). A good way to do that is to think of corporations or any other groups as having personal rights and weighing how new laws impinge upon those rights. If you can correct bad behavior without throwing rights under the bus, then you've made good law.

Same for court decisions. If you can rightfully seize an asset from a person, then the same logic applies to a corporation. In the Megaupload, this is where DOJ is headed. You can't seize Jane's stuff because John did something wrong. You can't seize a company's assets because of someone else's behavior. However, you can seize the ownership percentage of a corporation. Megaupload says seizure would have to be of ownership, which is legally held in HK. DOJ is trying to go after the assets directly. Their theory is along the lines that seizing ownership to seize assets is the same as seizing the assets directly, so it's ok.

We'll see what the judge says.

is it just me or... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799063)

do the fonts look super crisp in Mountain Lion? Or was it because I was using a PC while I was waiting for my Mac to upgrade and got used to ugly ass Windows? Either way this shit looks fucking slick!

Why?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799065)

What the US govt got from this? Does the piracy declined?

Re:Why?? (4, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799091)

What the US govt got from this?

 
The US government does not benefit anything from this, but on the other hand, those who are paying the politicians, ie, the king makers get to thumb their collective noses down to the rest of us
 

so who do we vote for? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799069)

who do we vote for that has
1. a realistic chance of winning, and by realistic I mean you could find a bookie to give you 100-1 odds of it happening
2. and will not only stop these kinds of abuses once in office but use the full force of the government to destroy the lives of those officials from the previous administration responsible for them

Re:so who do we vote for? (1)

flimflammer (956759) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799417)

No one.

Face it (4, Insightful)

virb67 (1771270) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799075)

Face it. This is no longer a country of laws. The powers that be do what they want, how they want, whenever they want. Get used to it.

If you wanna bend over ... (2, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799099)

Get used to it.

 
If you wanna bend over and get it, that's your choice
 
But do not bet on it that many will follow you
 

Re:If you wanna bend over ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799257)

Considering the actions of the many and their uninformed decisions voting in stupid and corrupt politicians to power, I'll tell you, not many will follow only because they are already bending over and taking it where the sun doesn't shine.

Re:If you wanna bend over ... (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799293)

Stop blaming the people when the corporations have gotten both political parties to corner the election market.

They own the media and aren't afraid to lie, cheat, and steal to get their way.

They are also not above rigging the votes to make sure they win no matter how much the voters hate them. See the ohio article for proof. If they can't smear and spin their way to winning the election they're more than happy to just steal it by force with a few well timed security glitches. There's a reason we slashdotters HATE electronic voting, especially with machines made by Diebold.

We the people have no fucking power in the first place because Big Brother took it away from us.

This whole "blame the victim/voter" mentality on slashdot is seriously pissing me off.

Re:If you wanna bend over ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799351)

Yet there are no grassroots or at least no mainstream (except maybe Jon Stewart and Colbert Report) that shows and exposes these lying media. Your attitude is defeatist and my point stands, people are already bending over and taking it instead of protesting and doing something about it.

Even if they get it "no matter what" they should still be sweating while doing that instead of like today just telling people to bend over and they'll do it happily. Time to make people informed and make sure they vote informed. But that's just a dream, todays america wants everyone instantly, there is no patience and ability to see benefit in the future. Everyone wants to be rich now they don't have the patience to do what is needed to become though.

Simply, make people informed, start grassroots, organizations, study circles and in a couple of years maybe you reach a few more voters. Train people to phone in to media, create "media watch organizations" that exposes them and teaches the public.

Re:If you wanna bend over ... (1)

l0ungeb0y (442022) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799557)

Yeah -- because we see such an independent revolutionary spirit alive and well in America. Sure, we get some gun nuts who talk big about taking down the gov't with their band of freedom fighting rednecks. But the fact is the people want shiny iDevices, SUVs and lots of gratuitous titties on HBO Dramas. You don't get those things if you are off fighting for silly things like freedom from an oppressive government.

Re:Face it (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799281)

Which country? US, NZ, or Hong Kong?

The US has no business in this case.

USA! USA! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799089)

So if the court finds that what Megaupload did wasn't illegal, the US Government can say "don't care lol" and just sit on the money because fuck the law. Sounds awesome. How do I open my own USA?

Re:USA! USA! (0)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799123)

First step, get fat, rich, and dont want to pay your taxes
Second Step, get like-minded fat rich land owners to join you
Third Step, defeat England
Fourth Step, let the fat rich people avoid taxes for 200+ years

The Forefeiture Racket (5, Informative)

geoffrobinson (109879) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799111)

This happens with citizens all the time.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/01/26/the-forfeiture-racket/singlepage [reason.com] (Behind a paywall, bu the first paragraph will give you the gist.)

You get arrested for a crime. Your assets are seized. Charges are dropped or you are found not guilty. They don't give you your assets back.

What about the 6th Amentment? (4, Interesting)

RPI Geek (640282) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799117)

Doesn't this violate the Speedy Trial Clause?

Re:What about the 6th Amentment? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799173)

Bart: The Constitution? I'm pretty sure the PATRIOT Act killed it to ensure our freedoms.

Re:What about the 6th Amentment? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799345)

We hear about constitutional rights, free speech and the free press. Every time I hear these words I say to myself, "That man is a Red, that man is a Communist." You never hear a real American talk like that.

Re:What about the 6th Amentment? (1)

darkfeline (1890882) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799489)

I'm pretty sure that 1. it only aplies to people and 2. it only applies to criminal cases. Civil cases and charging property of a crime aren't eligible.

Re:What about the 6th Amentment? (1)

dutchwhizzman (817898) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799535)

No, the 6th amendment is only for US citizens. Foreigners and companies do not enjoy such rights. One of the reasons why things like Gitmo get to exist is exactly this. You may want to amend the 6th amendment to include any person or company, if freedom and equal rights mean anything to you as People of the USA.

Could always pull the BS they do in drug cases (1)

Grayhand (2610049) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799119)

Declare the assets breaking the law and seize them. Since assets have no rights they can keep them indefinitely. Highly unConsitutional but it hasn't stopped them yet.

Story tag (1)

Areyoukiddingme (1289470) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799121)

This story is tagged "piracy". One can only assume it's referring to the opinions of the US Attorney...

Re:Story tag (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799141)

No, the US govt is commiting piracy in this case, pillaging MegaUpload's assets and sitting on them just because.

Re:Story tag (1)

iphinome (810750) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799445)

I think it's robbery not piracy. The assets weren't seized on the high seas.

That's Not a Good Message (4, Insightful)

Bob9113 (14996) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799131)

Not only that, but the government believes it can continue to freeze Megaupload's assets and paralyze its operations even if the judge grants the motion to dismiss.

The message they are sending seems to be: If you do something that might piss off a powerful enough lobby in the United States, even if the legal system sides with you, get your money out of the country.

That doesn't seem like a very smart message to send.

Re:That's Not a Good Message (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799619)

That doesn't seem like a very smart message to send.

Actually it seems to me, that it's a very good message to send. The message is: Headquarter in Switzerland, Canada, Japan with offshore holdings in other countries. Setup an simply ignore the US market completely. And if people really want your product that badly, use a 3rd party service to send it across, leaving you high and dry of any type of responsibility.

I've noticed recently, in my dealings with US companies that many no longer operate their headquarters in the US, especially computer companies. Most seem to be Switzerland.

Big Kid... (1)

stanlyb (1839382) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799183)

Sometimes, i have the feeling that the government is one big, stupid, nasty, bulling, KID.
Then i wake up, and realize that it is not just a feeling...

If they do, they're breaking the law. (5, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799215)

US Constitution, Amendment V:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

An executive branch agency just deciding to keep your property because they don't like the outcome of their attempt to indict you is not the "due process of law". In fact, it's quite the opposite: it's grand larceny.

While I hold no illusions about the US government's willingness to break the law and violate the constitution whenever they find it convenient to do so, the constitution remains the entirety of the legal basis for its existence. When the government violates the constitution, it does not act as the agent of the people, but as usurpers of the people's sovereign power.

-jcr

Re:If they do, they're breaking the law. (1)

shentino (1139071) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799299)

Then in theory, if the government sues your property, you can intervene in the lawsuit.

Re:If they do, they're breaking the law. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799319)

Civil forfeiture is a key part of the war on drugs. If not for it, you could practically buy illegal drugs at will. I'm more than willing to give up some rights considering how much safer this makes us all.
 
  - Lots of stupid Americans

Re:If they do, they're breaking the law. (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799441)

The "war" on drugs makes you feel safer? In the 30 years or so that I remember of it I've felt less and less safe as drug dealers get more militant and violent The police have gotten far more violet to match but they inflict that on everyone while they retreat behind more layers of protection.

Re:If they do, they're breaking the law. (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799601)

He was joking, dude.

-jcr

Re:If they do, they're breaking the law. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799369)

Now, now. Quit trying to use the Constitution. Everyone knows that it is a worthless piece of paper.

Re:If they do, they're breaking the law. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799599)

Interesting, but disturbing theory from the executive branch: Due process of law does not mean judicial system. It means the process was followed.

So if the law says "if person spits, call the Bob, then execute them," then it is ok for the government to execute spitters ... as long as they call them Bob first.

They're not the legal government, they're a gang. (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799233)

If they don't follow the law then they're not the government they're just a gang.

Like the thugs in any 3rd world hole - they're already making threats of what they'll do regardless of what the court rules.

Pack them up and send them off to North Korea where they belong.

A Game of Twists (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799235)

The 'Judge' is in all likelihood ... an appointee of an appointee of an appointee ... ad infinitum.

In this case, Constitution Rights, Civil Rights, International Rights, the US Rights of Prisoners of War and the Rights of any State of the United States of America ... do NOT apply.

Added to this the ... 'Judge' is fully aware that his Supreme Boss, President Barak Hussein Obama II has through Executive Order Claimed the Rights to Kill and Murder, Render and Torture, and human being on planet Earth so long as the said President is 'Pleasured' by such.

Ergo, the case is closed, solved and no trial needed whatsoever.

May the President Barak Hussein Obama II rest in peace.

LoL

Don't target services to U.S. citizens and deny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799243)

Don't target services to U.S. citizens and deny them access to the services. And whatever you do, do not be linked in anyway with any U.S. business. U.S.A. is getting way to crazy, they don't respect the law if it doesn't fit them, but if it does, doesn't matter if it is U.S. law they are are imposing on non-us citizens and businesses.

Expired (4, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799267)

Biden brought the Hollywood money back in the day, and that got him the VP slot and his **AA bosses some seats in the Justice Department, including Mr. MacBride who's working Kim Dotcom today. Despite the whole "supporting your vice president" thing, that's a liability moving into new elections. I don't want to think the O-man needs to or wants to make these sacrifices as an incumbent. He's a constitutional scholar and I think, a geek like us. At least I hope so.

BTW: I really hate the politicization of /. during crazy season. And yet here I am contributing to it.

Don't Host in the USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799287)

As a non US citizen the moral of the story is this. Do not host or use cloud services based in the USA ! And while on the subject, control of the domain name system should be removed from the USA. The US government is increasingly showing why they rest of the world cannot trust them.

Re:Don't Host in the USA (1)

AHuxley (892839) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799453)

The US had the audacity to lecture parts of the world about using its 'safe' cloud providers.
With legal ideas such post or pre court semijudicial software and hardware disappearances - why risk your data in the USA?

Temporal limitations (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799295)

The government used the "there are no temporal limitations on" (insert some named power) argument with the PPACA. In that case the government argued that there were no temporal limitations on the commerce clause, which the Court did not entertain. Regardless of where you fall on the healthcare bill, these sort of arguments are inane and I find it very troubling that they are being used at all.

Power and Arrogance -- a poisonous combo (4, Insightful)

Jerry (6400) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799297)

ALL the branches of the US government have become corrupt outlaws who have no clue as to what the Bill of Rights means. It's behavior for the last 8 years is a dictionary example of "power corrupts", made worse by the insufferable arrogance they display.

FFFFUUUU (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799339)

The US is the reason why we can't have nice things...

Who's racketeering here? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799343)

The US government accused Kim Dotcom of racketeering. And now they say they themselves are the real racketeers. Oh the irony.

Troubling... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799381)

In light of this, if I had a business that I thought might conceivably run afoul of the "authorities", I would simply ensure I didn't HAVE any assets anywhere where the government could "freeze" them. That was their first mistake. They need to find a place where the local government can't or won't be pressured by the officials of the US government, or the people who own them, (the rich and powerful).

I wonder if people realized that we could turn the tables on the rich, simply by refusing to accept US dollars anymore as payment, and started trading in something else. If all workers did this, we could take the power back in a minute. Imagine...

Of course, commerce would come, oh... not to a grinding or screeching halt, but it would act like it just plowed into the side of a mountain. A mountain of reinforced concrete. We'd have to replace it with something, and THAT could be a problem. I don't think there's a viable alternative. Before anyone responds "BITCOINS!!!" forget it. I mean REAL money, not monopoly money. Cold, hard, cash. Unfortunately, cash is only as good as the ability of the producer of it to prevent forgery, and maintain a degree of scarcity, while at the same time ensuring a sufficient quantity to lubricate transactions...

Now that I think about it, everyone refusing to accept dollars right this moment, at any given moment, would be kind of like hijacking a plane by having men outside cut the wings off, thinking you can then fly it to Rio. Doesn't work that way, it just falls screaming out of the sky.

But anyway, all the government has done, or is doing with this is assuring more people will secure their money beyond the reach of the US government. So this really is just a stupid thing for them to do, to protect the interests of the rich, super rich, and filthy rich.

(Because no middle-class or lower person really worries about whether or not the MPAA or RIAA, etc., is making enough money unless they work for it, and probably not even then.)

Judge Dredd... (1)

Zemran (3101) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799387)

... I am the law...

state sponsored mafia (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799401)

the reality is that united state of arses want to control and gulp down the global business.

it is a state sponsored mafia which hits anyone who does not pay them their self purported 'cut' one way or other.

the situation is well clear in many incidences, many world leaders are powerless suckers who cannot stand against the system.

For the people...By the people (1)

neither_geek_nor_ner (1002460) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799405)

Welcome to the promised land... Now renamed "Democratic People's Republic of America" Hail "Injustice" Department.

Yes they can (1)

houghi (78078) | more than 2 years ago | (#40799443)

And the school bully can still kick anybodies ass after he has been to the principles offices and been told not to.

Until the American People stop it, it will go further. People now bitch and moan a bit. At one point they will want to do something about it and it will be too late to do this in a civil matter.

At some point you would want your rights back. This can happen peacefully, or this can happen by a lot of bloodshed.

No idea what will trigger it or when it will happen. There will be an enormous outcry and people will finally go to the streets.

It has happened already so many times, I won';t even try to come up with examples.

As an aside: /. quote I see is NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION!

Great (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40799551)

Go for that fat crook and make him pay his crimes. I feel no sympathy for people who profit on the work of others. Hint: RIAA isn't the only being pirated, small developers are too.

The day piracy is effectively prosecuted, many people will turn to free software.

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