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John Romero's Doomy View On Android and Ouya

Soulskill posted more than 2 years ago | from the but-that's-not-hypey-enough dept.

Android 375

An anonymous reader writes "Romero is willing to give Ouya the benefit of the doubt, but he sees it filling a niche for neither gamers nor developers. 'I think it's cool that they're making a platform, but it's not really the answer that's coming from Apple about the next generation of consoles. Developers really want to invoke the spirit of the Apple II, Android isn't the operating system with which to do it,' Romero said. 'There are two platforms: [iOS] makes money [and] is still very programmable, like the Apple II, and then the other is Android, which is a piracy platform, and you're not doing anything new with it.'"

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FUD (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803921)

FUD. Ouya will keep a tab on piracy by storing the titles in the cloud, similar to iTunes and most likely selling subscriptions instead of individual titles.

Re:FUD (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804003)

Tities in the cloud? Isn't that spelled, titties?

ightest is a word?

Re:FUD (3, Insightful)

tooyoung (853621) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804267)

So, as an app developer, I could develop for iTunes, or an unproven solution that is just like iTunes, but without the user base?

Re:FUD (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804349)

Or you could stop being such an idiot and port the game over for free once you have finished it for one of the platforms. I doubt you have the intelligence to be an app developer, atleast not a successful one.

Re:FUD (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804389)

Porting is free only if your time isn't worth anything.

Re:FUD (4, Informative)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804371)

You are developing for Android which has quite a bit of a user base.
All you need to do is submit your thing to Google Play and be done with it.
It also forces people to support game controllers for their Android games. Simulating twin sticks with a touch screen is pathetic when the system supports any USB game controller that would also work on a PC. Well, at least it does support it on ICS. Not sure about Honeycomb. It's not even going the extra mile but the extra inch.
Riptide GP THD does also support 3D monitors with this nVision thing from nvidia. Works great, too.
Now imagine what basically is an Android tablet without a touch screen, the need to be as slim as possible, quite a lot of manufacturers where to buy parts(chpsets, connectors and so on) and you will find that the Ouya is not only viable but also a neat idea.
Sonic got ported to Android, there are Amiga emulators that work great with a controller, there is MAME and DosBOX. I bought Master of Magic from GOG(I still have the floppies but no drive anymore) and play it on my Transformer Prime.
I think I recall distinctly that Apple doesn't want emulation in the AppStore.

Userbase: [x]
Parts manufacturers: [x]
Already available popular games: [x]
???
Profit.
I propably won't buy one for myself because I already got a similar system. But it did cost substantially more than the Ouya. IMHO they should reconsider Google Play. Sooner or later somebody will hack it into the system.

Re:FUD (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804419)

The ??? could possibly be :
Get Supergiant to port Bastion to Android. Or Legend of Grimrock. Hell, that thing should be able to handle Orcs must Die!

Bullshit (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803931)

I used to program the Apple II. All you had to do was turn it on. You didn't have to buy a second, unrelated, $1000 computer just to write programs for it, nor pay $100 per year to the company that makes it. You didn't have to submit to sudden, arbitrary and anticompetitive censorship of the programs you could RUN ON YOUR OWN COMPUTER.

Apple may make many cool things, but lets not bullshit -- their devices are about neither creativity nor freedom -- they are about consumption, censorship, and control.

Re:Bullshit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803963)

You never talk about (censorship) or bondage (control) when you're spunking in your own mouth (consumption)

Re:Bullshit (1, Insightful)

foniksonik (573572) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804005)

And those are the walls that keep the pirates out. No not pirates, they will still make a profit. It's the brigands who just want an easy buck. The walls keep out the brigands and the freeloaders.

It's no different than a midieval town. No walls and you are an easy mark. Walls and it takes much more effort.

Re:Bullshit (5, Informative)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804107)

And those are the walls that keep the pirates out. No not pirates, they will still make a profit. It's the brigands who just want an easy buck. The walls keep out the brigands and the freeloaders.

It's no different than a midieval town. No walls and you are an easy mark. Walls and it takes much more effort.

may as it be, but the comment is kinda strange coming from the dude who made his fame and money on a system that had bare metal access and loads of piracy - the dos pc. apple's ios doesn't offer that kind of access(you go outside the api's and the app isn't supposed to make it to the store) or freedom.

maybe the comment about not doing anything new with it is in regards of ouya which is true: it doesn't really offer anything a generic 100 dollar android pc doesn't, in that regard ouya reminds me of some branded "gaming pc"'s that some brands advertised as the next coming of jesus back in the day while they offered nothing the generic pc didn't(usually they just came bundled with say sound card ready installed, but you could order pretty much any pc that way anyways).

there's two things devs should consider usually: is it possible to port and is it possible to get enough users. that's how pc killed amiga etc. despite being much bitchier platform to code for and despite having the rampant home-copy piracy that consoles lacked. it just had such a large userbase and it offered things that weren't possible on competing platforms.

and may as it be but for warez is easier to find for ios than randomly chosen android sw that doesn't happen to be in some pack.

Re:Bullshit (5, Insightful)

mwvdlee (775178) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804187)

that's how pc killed amiga etc.

The PC didn't really kill the Amiga. Or the AtariST for that matter. Both pretty much committed suicide by failing to improve their hardware.

Re:Bullshit (5, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804261)

oh fuck - I just realized that this is romero we're talking about and not carmack!

he's a fucking idiot and can't apparently design for shit nor code for shit. the games on which he was designer we're pretty much built around what the engine could or not do anyhow(keens would have been shit without carmacks engine and so would have wolf3d been and so would doom). he's lost the ball if he had any over fucking 20 years ago.

it totally makes sense that romero would say that android lacks apple II spirit and that iOS would have it because it's the total opposite. it totally makes sense too that he would be out of the loop of what's current gen(and what was last gen) in android tv boxes too so he's the last person you should ask for views on the whole matter.

"John Romero, who 25 years ago practically invented the first-person shooter genre with Wolfenstein 3D" is just total bullshit too.

Re:Bullshit (-1, Troll)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804391)

You're a retard,

Re:Bullshit (2)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804383)

Yeah he also made his money when a lot of people didn't have computers let alone net access so piracy was less of a problem and even when something was pirated it wasn't automatically available to the whole world. I suspect that makes a difference. That and it was cheaper and quicker to make a game compared to now. Making a Mario Bros clone is something one or two people can do. Making a GTA clone will take many more people or if only two people do it, it'll take a lot longer.

It's not completely fair to compare the Apple ][ days to now and I don't blame him (or others) wanting some protection in order to able ot make money. Android should be a much more attractive platform than it is but it's not because piracy is much higher there and imo Google isn't that bothered about it. They don't care how much developers make and it benefits them more if you plug their ads into your game rather than just asking for a bit of money from people.

Re:Bullshit (4, Insightful)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804231)

Ease of piracy is a large part of what made Windows into the juggernaut it is today. Just like Bill Gates said, they may not be able to charge pirates today but someday down the road they will. Android may be easy to pirate with today but it won't always be that way. Jellybean is already shipping with the ability to encrypt market downloads with a device specific key. More and more Android chews through the market share of the other OSs and at some point just like with Windows a tipping point will hit where the market share will be so overwhelming and the difficulty of pirating will be 'just so' that you won't help but be able to make money on the platform. In the meantime, make your money on iOS but keep an eye on Android. Don't forget to sharpen up those Java skills.

Re:Bullshit (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804257)

I say let the pirates in, no money whore 99cent shovelware makers will be interested and you will end up with a thriving homebrew / indy community that people wont pirate cause the makers will be giving it away.

Re:Bullshit (2, Insightful)

AmazingRuss (555076) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804109)

... consumption and control are what makes it possible for me to make a living as a developer. I'm not going to make games for a device that I can't make money from.

Free is great, but what you get for free (as far as games go) tends to be kind of.... well... un-polished, ugly, and kind of broken. People working for free just can't put the effort into a title that people who can devote all their working hours can.

I haven't hit any creativity problems in iOS, and freedom is pretty pointless when you can't afford groceries.

Re:Bullshit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804129)

Well most developers typically tend to own the platform that they program on. It's somewhat necessary in order to troubleshoot and test. You should also be aware that you can pick up a mini for $599.

XCode can be had for free. The OS is free with the hardware as well.

The $100 a year is optional if you want to use the app store, otherwise you can ignore it and just sell your app any old way you like it.

Next time at least try to do a few simple google searches before attempting to troll?

Re:Bullshit (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804307)

but can that app that you sold "any old way you like it" be installed by anyone that wants it without jumping through hoops?

Re:Bullshit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804395)

but can that app that you sold "any old way you like it" be installed by anyone that wants it without jumping through hoops?

If by "hoops" you mean double-clicking a disk image and copying the application to /Applications (there's usually an alias in the image) then yes; installing an application on OS X is simpler than any other platform I can think of. On the gripping hand, since we're talking about mobile devices, this is all academic.

Re:Bullshit (1)

Tom (822) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804223)

The Apple II was neither a smartphone, nor a tablet, nor a games console - and do you know what all of those have in common? No serious developer would consider actually writing his software one them, due to form factor, peripherals, screen size and basically everything else.

You don't need a seperate computer to write software for a Mac - that would be the proper comparison. You also don't need to participate in the developer program if you don't want to distribute it via the App Store. And no filtering, either.

There are parts of your criticism that are valid. You shouldn't waste them by putting them into a ridiculous argument that won't be taken seriously.

Re:Bullshit (1)

MikeMo (521697) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804237)

You can still do this. The developer program is free here https://developer.apple.com/programs/register/ [apple.com] , as are the developer tools. The sand boxing requirements only apply if you want to sell your app through the apple store. You can do anything you want on your own computer.

Re:Bullshit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804341)

i can only assume op was not talking about solely running just for himself, as that is where the control comes into play. apple could easily have their store and also let anyone openly develop and distribute their apps. it is a false dichotomy.

Re:Bullshit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804269)

The wild west days are over. Time to move on. What you call "censorship" is a FEATURE. It keeps most iOS users free of malware, unlike the situation on Android, and it enables app developers to actually make a profit from the platform, so they have more incentive to support it.

Re:Bullshit (2)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804313)

If John Romero had actually shown any sense of what gamers want then it might be worth listening to him. But he didn't, so don't.

Re:Bullshit (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804333)

I used to programme for the Lisa. You bastard!

How the hell did this get +5? I see the freetards aren't fact checking again just Apple hating.

Welcome to Slashdot. The ghetto of the uninformed with an axe to grind.

Re:Bullshit (1)

tooyoung (853621) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804337)

Interesting, how did you distribute your apps back then? Was there an store that distributed your applications and took less than a 30% cut?

Oh, wait, are you under the impression that you can only develop for Apple computers if you distribute through the app store and pay the $100 a year that you mention above? Are you under the impression that people can't download their apps from whatever store that you want without any interaction with the app store? Is there some sort of censorship that is applied to apps not downloaded via the app store? Or, do you think that Apple should be advertising your app through their store and handling transactions for free?

Perhaps it is the recent sandboxing that is upsetting you. Are you under the impression that apps can't be downloaded from your store that aren't sandboxed? Are you thinking that Apple should provide iCloud services for you for free?

I'd be curious of any solutions that you are aware of that provide a free store, free transaction processing, and free online storage of application specific data.

Windows is a piracy platform too (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803939)

Microsoft ripped off lots of Mac OS features, and made their OS available to many hardware vendors. Look where it got them.

Re:Windows is a piracy platform too (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804087)

a 93% market share?

Re:Windows is a piracy platform too (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804165)

Only in Windows and Office

Vista - oh dear

Bing - irrelevant

Xbox - money pit

aQuantative - 6.2 million loss due to inability to use it properly to challenge google

Zune - ha ha

Kin - two weeks of stupidity

Surface - No price, no availability, don't look behind the curtain, don't look at Apple, - look at us!

Monkey boy - Broken chairs

------

Fat 32 - Motorola ban in Germany

Support Micorsoft, buy Android - thanks for the licences

Re:Windows is a piracy platform too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804321)

In the last four years, Microsoft has made around $1 billion from Xbox sales. Granted, it still has another few billion to pay off before it becomes profitable overall, but any business starts out in the hole. I wouldn't call it a money pit.

Re:Windows is a piracy platform too (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804369)

What and you can't make a longer list of failed apple products? go back to ilovemacs or whatever website you lot pray too.

Re:Windows is a piracy platform too (2)

Chas (5144) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804309)

Sweet flipping Cthulu.

Decades ago, company A copied stuff from company B. And even though look and feel can't be patented or copyrighted we're going to whine and snivel about it until the end of time!

WAAAAH!

Just as an FYI, Apple did the same to Xerox. And don't start with the revisionist "Apple paid for that...years and years and years later" crap.

As a consumer, you shouldn't give a shit WHERE a given appearance or feature comes from. So long as it benefits you and other users.

Only stupid fanboys who never leave mom's basement continue to harp about ancient history.

Re:Windows is a piracy platform too (-1, Flamebait)

Dupple (1016592) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804361)

Here's some facts for you dimwit

http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html [mackido.com] [mackido.com]

Re:Windows is a piracy platform too (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804425)

Here's some facts for you dimwit

http://www.mackido.com/Interface/ui_history.html [mackido.com] [mackido.com]

Your link conveniently ignores Visi On [wikipedia.org] .

Strange comments ... (4, Interesting)

Grieviant (1598761) | more than 2 years ago | (#40803941)

But perhaps not that surprising considering Romero has moved to 'social' game development. Considering the dreck that falls under that category, such as Zynga's games, you might ask whether it really is all about the money now? That is, at least until he decides to do something else entirely different next year - his Wikipedia bio suggests he changes gaming studios and wives about as often as he changes underwear.

Re:Strange comments ... (2)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#40803977)

his Wikipedia bio suggests he changes gaming studios and wives about as often as he changes underwear.

Way to keep it classy, guy.

Re:Strange comments ... (0)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804147)

Don't call him guy, buddy.

Re:Strange comments ... (0)

BanHammor (2587175) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804163)

Don't call him buddy, dude.

Re:Strange comments ... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804329)

Don't call him dude, sonny.

Re:Strange comments ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804195)

He's not your buddy, pal.

Re:Strange comments ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804217)

I'll try and remember that chum

Re:Strange comments ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804249)

Thanks mate

Re:Strange comments ... (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804365)

his Wikipedia bio suggests he changes gaming studios and wives about as often as he changes underwear.

Way to keep it classy, guy.

well the wikipedia bio does suggest that. that's quite peculiar too.
can't comment on the cheesy cartoon games he's making nowadays since it's only a google+ app.
http://www.insidesocialgames.com/2012/06/15/pettington-park-review/ [insidesocialgames.com] if you're wondering, yes you buy tokens with real money or by spamming your friends(so it's kind of peculiar that he disses ouya for being viable for micro transaction games.. which is sort of bullshit since if that's true then it's viable for making games that require you to do a not-so-micro transaction to play).

anyhow, i'm puzzled, couldn't they find anyone more related to apple II to guest?

Re:Strange comments ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804401)

You're sure he changes underwear that often?

Re:Strange comments ... (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804139)

is Wikipedia bio suggests he changes gaming studios and wives about as often as he changes underwear.

Well the ad did say he's make you his bitch [wikipedia.org] .

Cue the Fandroids (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803943)

Apologists aka Google-Taliban incoming in 3...2...1

That's FanBOIDS.... (0, Redundant)

AmazingRuss (555076) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804119)

...and I see they've already downvoted you into oblivion, as is their way when they feel threatened.

Re:That's FanBOIDS.... (3, Informative)

BanHammor (2587175) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804175)

The meter shows me the mods' absolute indifference.

Do NOT feed the TROLL! (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803957)

This article is nothing but FUD / misdirection / bullshit from a jackass that only cares about his own agendas... Shame on Slashdot for posting this flamebait.

Re:Do NOT feed the TROLL! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804061)

Err, or an industry veteran well-positioned to evaluate the situation. Do you even know who he is? And what he's said only echoes what others have said. And if you look at the stats and reports from actual developers, as opposed to people like yourself, Android _is_ a piracy platform.

Cheerlead for FOSS all you like, but at least pick a real open platform to do it over.

Re:Do NOT feed the TROLL! (4, Informative)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804111)

Ummm, John Romero lost all credibility AGES ago.
The first person who said it was a piracy platform was a guy who sold his free to play game for 1$. It still got pirated because it was a pay-to-win game that honestly wasn't worth the admission fee. Romero is again making you his bitch. And Slashdot too as it would seem.

The Ouya is a valid platform. I have hooked up my tablet to my monitor/a friends TV a couple of times and played quite a few very good games on it. At the price point those games usually sell piracy is indeed a service problem.

Not sure if troll or stupid.

Re:Do NOT feed the TROLL! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804275)

Android _is_ a piracy platform

And you're unable to distinguish openness from faulty security, which makes you a complete idiot as well as a troll.

Re:Do NOT feed the TROLL! (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804297)

Yes, you do have to jailbreak your iDevice device to do it but once you do that you will find no platform that offers the ease of pirating that iOS does. Once you load Installous [hackulo.us] it's on like Donkey Kong(TM). Get it?

Can anyone explain... (2)

Darundal (891860) | more than 2 years ago | (#40803959)

...Why Romero or anything he says is still relevent?Yeah, he used to be kind of a big deal, but the last time he did anything relevant was Red Faction. If you really want to stress it then you could put down Area 51 but honestly Romero just seems to be a name these days.

Re:Can anyone explain... (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804153)

Why Romero or anything he says is still relevent?

Well, those zombie movies are pretty bitchin'.

Checking... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803961)

No, still haven't been made Romero's bitch yet.

I feel a great disturbance in the force... (1, Insightful)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 2 years ago | (#40803967)

As millions of Slashdotters' heads kerploded attempting to reconcile their love for Romero with their love for Android and disdain for Apple...

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803981)

Why does /. love Romero?

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803999)

My guess is that someone got their Doom Johns mixed up and thought this was Carmack.

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (1)

fredprado (2569351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804029)

I was going to ask this. Romero is and always were an idiot... Nobody likes him.

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (5, Informative)

macshit (157376) | more than 2 years ago | (#40803985)

No, no, it's Carmack that slashdot loves, 'cause he was the smart one.

Romero is the other guy, the one who was trying to look like Fabio.

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (4, Insightful)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804007)

Um, I don't think there are many people who love John Romero. John Carmack, yes, but.....
The public is fickle, and as soon as you act like an ass in public, will turn its love away from you.

Uh, there's also a huge Apple-loving faction on Slashdot. Slashdot isn't a monolithic entity, people have different views.

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804127)

Well I only have one view but I object to be called a monolith.

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (3, Insightful)

AbRASiON (589899) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804287)

John Romero is often given unnecessary shit due to a marketing campaign someone else conjured up and he just said "ok sure" too. He's pretty much a very very nice and enthusiastic guy. John also had a HUGE amount to do with the design of episode 1 of Doom, which gets him mucho credit.

I will say I agree with the posters here, regarding the closed platform with an arbitrary cost to developers and how Apple isn't all roses.
It's a bit of a shitty and surprising thing for John to say. Especially the piracy, I'm sure that was the case when Android was new and it was mostly nerds using it, however it's very mainstream now and I'm not convinced the evil piracy Android system is anything like that anymore for the average user. Poor showing John.

Re:I feel a great disturbance in the force... (1)

Hellmark (777625) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804209)

Uhm? What good games has Romero done since he left id back in '96 or '97. Last good game he had any part of was the original Quake.

Attention whoring. (1, Flamebait)

starblazer (49187) | more than 2 years ago | (#40803971)

It's great when you've fallen from Grace. What's next? Daikatana for iOS?

John Romero? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40803979)

Oh that's cool, maybe next we can get Rico Suave's view on current music trends as well...

I can already see the marketing slogan (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804001)

"John Romero's About To Make Ouya His Bitch"

Piracy is not the problem - incumbency and bugs ar (4, Interesting)

Qwavel (733416) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804009)

Piracy is not as big a problem as some devs are making it out to be. The vast majority of Android users wouldn't have the slightest idea of how to pirate an app. The main group involved in piracy is young, techie gamers, but even then it is not a huge portion of users, and I believe that these users buy some games too.

I think the piracy problem is over-blown by game developers who are dissapointed with their Android sales, often due to (a) their game just isn't that good, or (b) Android users are more cost conscious then iOS users and generally spend less online, or (c) they are coming to Android late and the apps that got their earlier have the advantage of incumbency (which I find to be a huge advantage, though less so with games).

Moving away from games (where the Android test suite does better) to general apps the big problem is bugs. Android has tons of bugs (and a very lacking test suite). Since phones don't get update regularly, developers must work around old bugs indefinitely. Look at the average Android app and you will see various users complaining that the app simply doesn't work on their platform. That's the bugs.

Check out the Android bug list
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/list [google.com]
and you will see an astonishing # of bugs, and lots of comments from frustrated developers who are shocked that important bugs can take years to even be acknowledged by Google, let alone fixed (sorry for the bad grammer).

The most recent release (4.1.1) still has lots of bugs, but it appears to be much more solid then previous releases (like 4.0 and 2.3.0 which were shameful, in my opinion), so I hope this is an indication that Google is moving to get the bug infestation under control.

Finally, let me add that this problem has nothing to do with openness, open-source, or fragmentation. If Google would just start focussing on killings bugs, and extend the Android Compatibility Test Suite (the official test suite) so that manufacturers will stop introducing so many new bugs, then fragmentation would become diversity, developers would become more productive, and users would have a better experience.

Re:Piracy is not the problem - incumbency and bugs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804311)

Secondly, to add a point: Another problem with Android is that a there is no mandatory upgrade. Meaning that a device might be stuck with a version that never will get a proper bug fix, which introduces its own issues. Its a problem Google has not solved... yet.

Re:Piracy is not the problem - incumbency and bugs (5, Insightful)

PsychoSlashDot (207849) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804335)

Piracy is not as big a problem as some devs are making it out to be.

I agree. The real "problem" is that (many) developers just don't get it that their fart app really isn't worth $.99 to most people. Clue: your weather widget... it's a fart app. Your uber-mega-clock? It's a fart app. Battery Gauge Max++ Professional Edition is... a fart app. If you really dig on Google Play, you're going to see thousands of "apps" almost all of which are just superfluous fluff. Even most of the games are roughly equivalent to the freeware of the Windows platform circa 1990.

Developers... get this: unless you're making either a top-tier game or a truly powerful app like Documents to Go or Repligo PDF Reader, you're making crap we don't need. Some of your fart apps we might kinda-sorta want, a little bit, maybe. And sometimes someone of us might bother with your token microtransactions because we're bored. But don't think counting on that income is a valid business plan. It's not. There are five other stock-ticker apps out there that are actually free instead of almost-but-not-quite-free. Sure, maybe yours comes with a blue icon and sure, maybe that's enough motivation for someone to pirate yours instead of using one of the free ones with green icons, but don't kid yourself... you didn't get pirated because Android blah blah platform for piracy blah blah. No. You got pirated because your product really, truly isn't worth $.99 (With the notable exceptions mentioned earlier.)

No, he's correct. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804017)

People, including me, use Android because it's not Apple, Open Source and not Apple.

However, Android is extremely flawed as developers constantly point out as a platform to generate money. It's also a pain to develop for Android due to the slow crawl to an API capable of dealing with all of the various hardware configurations.

With that said, the App market isn't that interesting on any phone. Applications fall between being completely useless and somewhat useful but poorly programmed, resource eating monsters that consolidate every feature known to man. Do we really need Hangman in a Dictionary program? Do we really need megabytes of graphics to take up memory too?

I'm still sticking with Android, hopefully once the turbulent mobile market cools down we'll have a healthy ecosystem of programs not developed by your average College graduate.

Re:No, he's correct. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804095)

Android isn't flawed if you are a freetard, it is in exact perfect alignment with freetardism and the attendant piracy that goes along with it.

This is because the overwhelming majority of the FOSS crowd cares only about the free part. Not open, not that they can get the source, not that it comes with Freedom, just that it does not cost them anything. Indeed, even if they ever looked at the source they couldn't make sense of it. They could never contribute to a project. They could never code up a bug fix. They will never actually create anything or do anything with any of the Freedom, they'll just install apps from a repos and use them like every iDevice owner out there.

And so the fact that they get a given piece of software free develops within them a galactic sense of entitlement. If Google gives me the whole OS free, who is this developer to say that I have to pay for his app to run on it? I'll just pirate it. And so it goes.

Sure there is always loads of hand waving about the many eyes and walled gardens and such. But nearly everyone shouting about it is doing so as a misdirection pointing you away from the fact that all they care about is not having to pay anyone for anything. It ain't their eyes and they ain't tearing down any walls.

Re:No, he's correct. (0)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804367)

How is this steaming pile of shit modded up?

Oh, John Romero... (5, Insightful)

fredprado (2569351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804025)

So speaks John Romero. He should know what he is talking about, things like making money and such, right? Oh wait. He was the guy who managed to bankrupt his company and failed to deliver several games for which he had received money in advance, and the games he did delivery were failures.

He also bought offices with marble floors, opening ceilings and all kinds of ostentation whilst trying his very best to destroy his company.

The only thing he did right in his life was trusting John Carmack in the beginning.

Re: Oh, John Romero... (1)

IrrepressibleMonkey (1045046) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804063)

Argumentum ad hominem? I watched the linked video and it didn't make me angry. But he has got stupid hair, so...

Re: Oh, John Romero... (4, Insightful)

fredprado (2569351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804097)

It is not an argument at all. I am just appreciating the irony of someone who has no clue about how to manage a business giving lessons on the subject.

Re: Oh, John Romero... (2)

IrrepressibleMonkey (1045046) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804131)

Did you watch the video? The guy was asked a question at an Apple II nostalgia fest and he gave his opinion on the statements of the Ouya CEO. I understand why you don't like his opinion, but a well thought-out rebuttal would have been more useful than your repeated bashing of the man himself.

Re: Oh, John Romero... (2)

fredprado (2569351) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804211)

I never tries to rebut his statement. I was just saying he should stay quiet in matters he does not have a clue about.

Now if I wanted to rebut his argument, I would say that Android is increasing in sells worldwide and taking iOS market relentlessly. More and more developers are developing for it each day, and many of them are quite successfully making money with it.

Piracy is mostly a non issue. The low prices of apps in both platforms is a good enough deterrent to piracy. If someone will pirate instead of paying 2 dollars for an App this person wouldn't buy the App anyway even if it was impossible for him to pirate it.

Re: Oh, John Romero... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804363)

I would like to see some numbers comparing the amount of Android subscribers vs iOS subscribers. I've read that the sales figures are higher for Android, but the few Android users I know tend to replace their phones a lot... Far more than the iPhone users I know. So, if your typical Android user buys a phone a year, and the iPhone user waits 2 years, the of course the sales figures will be higher. There always seems to be a better Android phone coming out every month, so upgrading can happen often.

Re: Oh, John Romero... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804227)

What's wrong with his hair? Battlefield Earth was /awesome/!

Re:Oh, John Romero... (1)

thetoadwarrior (1268702) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804417)

Considering how many games companies have gone bankrupt over the years you can hardly act as if his company going bankrupt is unique.

Not just Android (2)

bluescrn (2120492) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804039)

Piracy is a big problem on iOS, too. Maybe not quite as Android - but it's certainly pretty bad. The real advantage of iOS is it's not as ridiculously fragmented as Android. It's quite practical to test an iOS app on most/all supported devices. With Android, where there's hundreds and hundreds of devices, the best you can do is test on a few and hope for the best...

What is this "piracy platform" FUD again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804043)

Does a regular phone user go to the lengths as to root his/her phone to get access the hardware? Would a regular user feel comfortable with this? Considering all the big fat red notices that it will void the warranty, and that they certainly do not know if they are right now installing malware on their phones in the first place.

There are of course people who do this, just to pirate. Also, there are people doing exactly this in the ios platform..

So my question is, what generates this talk about high numbers of piracy on android?

On my own account, i might see android users as a bit more price-conscious, and that there are a lot more hackers.. But what are the news?

Re:What is this "piracy platform" FUD again? (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804181)

...and you don't get automatic updates. I don't know how cheap a pirates time is but mine isn't.
Chances are a person who pirates a 5$ game isn't going to be a customer anyway.
Instead of calling PIRATE and cowering in the corner I would rather expect from a respectable and sage person of John Romero's repute to take a look why anybody would pirate a 5$ game.
Is it because it's a kid with no bank account/credit card? As a kid I more than once skipped lunch and bought comic books with the money. Because I had the cash. If I could only buy the comic books with a credit card I would propably had eaten instead.

In this case I'd rather go with Newell who says that piracy is a service problem. Newell makes a killing selling games at 10$ or less. Could be he is on to something.

Posting this I've already put more thought into this issue than Romero has. Could it be that he is living up to his reputation? Just a wild stab in the dark. Banish the thought.

Bleh (1)

Hellmark (777625) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804045)

He makes it seem like people don't buy anything on Android. While piracy may be relatively easy, being legal is still easier. I know quite a few who pirate stuff on PC, but no one I know bothers with Android piracy. One of the top reasons? Mobile apps get tons of updates, and being legal gets all those updates for free. That said, I actually know more people who've jailbroken and run pirated apps on iPhone. Also, there are plenty of things that can be done by the developers to stamp out piracy on their own. For instance Madfinger games, who recently claimed the reason they dropped the price of Dead Trigger from 99 cents to free was because of piracy, had every install phone home. Ok, if you're having the app phone home for approval on install, then you can deny approval. (Also of note, their claim may be somewhat skewed, since they have sold 250k copies on android before the release, and require in app purchases to progress in the game.) Also, Google has decided that with Jellybean, the apps from Google Play market will be signed, and only work on the device it was downloaded on. I wouldn't be surprised if that feature gets backported to older versions (wouldn't be the first time they've backported market updates to older versions). I dunno, to me just seems like he's not putting much effort into things, or thought. Plus, he's bitching about Android being so piratable? Romero is the king of PC gaming, where shit is pirated way more often (partially due to cost. People will pirate a $60 game way before pirating a dollar game).

Re:Bleh (1)

bfandreas (603438) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804283)

This is Romero, not Carmack.
Romero is not the king of PC gaming. He isn't even the queen of PC gaming. I always wondered why he is known at all since everybody else did the really heavy lifting and smart-making.

While I believe that this "make you his bitch" stunt wasn't his idea or authorized by him I didn't even understand why his name carried any weight 15 years ago.

You are spot on the convenience thing for using the PlayStore. I get at least 10 updates per week.for my apps. And I bought(sorry "licensed") quite a few games. Those cost about as much as a packet of cigarettes in my neck of the woods. Why should I:
-search for the right version of the APK
-install it
-keep an eye open for updates
When I simply can kick back, look for interesting stuff I heard about, press download, say yes once or twice and play the thing a couple of minutes later and up to date ever after?
The only scenario I can think of where somebody pirates a game at this price is
-so poor that 5$ means eating this week or not
-has not got a credit card or other electronic payment system(possibly a kid; find another way to pay like for instance bill per telephone bill => a service problem)
-is unsure if it runs on his system(woefully problematic depending on the device)
-somebody who pirates out of principle
Those are platform or service issues that cost you customers. And the rest have not been and never will be your customer anyway. Why worry about them?
To somebody with a steady income the thought of jumping through flaming hoops to pirate a 5$ game should be ludicrous.

Ion Storm: Great company, or GREATEST company? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804055)

Who is John Romero again? Oh yeah, he's the guy who ISN'T John Carmack. The guy who after leaving id drove his new company into the ground because he is so astute at making business decisions.

LOL (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804089)

Samsung with their record 5.9B profit is laughing all the way to the bank.

Oh it's just Romero (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804101)

At first I thought it was someone worth listening to such as John Carmack.

Mixed feelings (1)

joeflies (529536) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804123)

On one hand, I find it hard to think Romero has something meaningful to say, as he has not been meaningfully involved in driving innovation in the gaming business for over 16 years

The Apple II was one of the biggest piracy platforms, so I find his choice of comparison to be somewhat faulty.

On the other hand, I can't help but think that the Ouya will not be successful for other reasons. I get the impression that it will produce more tablet-style games for the tv set rather than the rich gaming experience that's worthy of the living room

Re:Mixed feelings (1)

oakgrove (845019) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804355)

On the other hand, I can't help but think that the Ouya will not be successful for other reasons. I get the impression that it will produce more tablet-style games for the tv set rather than the rich gaming experience that's worthy of the living room

That's where I think you're wrong. Te reason tablet games lack some of the depth found on the consoles is people frankly don't want it. Nobody wants to be sitting on the train waiting through a 10 plus minute cut scene. tablets are a dip in dip out device and debs generally cater to that. As soon as you put the hardware in the living room, provided Ouya can attract developers, you will see much more immersive games. The Tegra3 is certainly capable. There are even some tablet games that offer a PC like experience the excellent Aralon for the iPad being a prime example.

Thoughts (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804203)

The Ouya is likely not the device that will have any impact on the console market (with those funds they can't even design a proper controller).
But it is part of the idea that has potential to revolutionize the whole gaming industry.
At the moment the industry consists of pure exploitation of everyone creatively involved and also the customers.
If we eliminate the idiots who profit the most from game development by funding the developers directly everyone will be happier.

Also:
People LIKE to own things.
See steam.
People LOVE to pay for things more than they have to.
See the humble bundle.
People HATE being restricted.
Don't you?

Hey.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804253)

Remember that time John Romero made something good? That was, what, 2003? LISTEN TO THE MAN!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Romero#Games

Old Apple retread (1)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804295)

Id started on Apple and no doubt John Romero has always wanted to go back there. Better luck than last time, John, you'll need it.

Like the apple II my dickhole (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40804385)

The Apple // had expandable memory & 7 expansion slots. iOS devices doesn't even have removable storage let alone a removable battery. On top of that, if the average person can't execute unsigned apps on iOS, IT'S NOWHERE NEAR SIMILAR TO THE APPLE //.

Daikatana (1)

Frater 219 (1455) | more than 2 years ago | (#40804429)

Well, I suppose Daikatana will be coming out for iOS but not for Android, then?
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