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Craigslist Demands Exclusivity For Postings

Unknown Lamer posted about 2 years ago | from the not-into-polylist-relationships dept.

Businesses 160

Bill Dimm writes "Craigslist now demands an exclusive license to the content you post there. How many people are aware that they are agreeing not to post their job ads, rentals, items for sale, etc. anywhere else when they post to Craigslist?" It's not going out on much a limb to suspect this is to strengthen Craigslist's position against those extension sites they love so much.

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Near first post?! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40843909)

Near first post?!

That's not what it says (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40843939)

They are claiming exclusivity to the content not intent. Change your verbiage when you post to eBay and you're good.

Re:That's not what it says (2)

characterZer0 (138196) | about 2 years ago | (#40844003)

And take different photos?

Re:That's not what it says (1)

Bigby (659157) | about 2 years ago | (#40844157)

That is part of the content. Changing the writing before it changes the content. If you don't change the writing, just change the order of the photos.

Re:That's not what it says (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 2 years ago | (#40844909)

They could argue the changed verbiage was a derivative creation of the original and thus subject to its copyright.

Re:That's not what it says (2)

DeeEff (2370332) | about 2 years ago | (#40845859)

Then license it as GPLv3, then post it on Craigslist.

They might just give it back to you with that license, though...

Re:That's not what it says (4, Insightful)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about 2 years ago | (#40846205)

The obvious solution would be to post the derivative work on Craigslist, with the original everywhere else.

it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as that (5, Insightful)

Trepidity (597) | about 2 years ago | (#40843959)

It's pretty clearly giving them an exclusive copyright license, with explicit authority to enforce your copyright, probably intended to remove any doubt a judge may have that they're allowed to sue sites that scrape/republish Craigslist. And since it's exclusive, this probably does mean that you're not allowed to copy/paste the same ad onto multiple sites, since you've exclusively licensed your ad to Craigslist. Which is pretty dumb, although I would put good odds on them not enforcing that, since the timing indicates it's aimed at the sites that scrape Craigslist wholesale, not random individuals.

I don't read it as giving them complete exclusivity rights for the underlying rental/sale, though. There isn't any language saying you agree not to list the item on another site simultaneously, so I believe (while obviously IANAL) that you could write up a separate ad for another site if you wanted.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about 2 years ago | (#40844303)

you could write up a separate ad for another site if you wanted

It explicitly prohibits preparing derivative works without Craigslist's consent. IANAL, so I don't know if they could enforce that against the original author, but it seems they could certainly go after whatever other website published/distributed your derivative post. Since that other website's Terms of Use would probably require you to post only things that you legally have the right to post, you could presumably wind up with them coming after you if Craigslist comes after them.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

moosehooey (953907) | about 2 years ago | (#40844367)

It's not a derivative work unless it's based on the original (in other words, if you modified the Craigslist ad). If you wrote another ad from scratch for the same item, it's not a derivative work.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (2)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about 2 years ago | (#40844459)

Sure, but how do you prove that it is written from scratch, especially when there would need to be a high degree of similarity when describing the same item? For example, a job ad is going to contain a list of qualifications -- how are you going to advertise the same job without copying the list of qualifications?

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

cduffy (652) | about 2 years ago | (#40844695)

Sure, but how do you prove that it is written from scratch, especially when there would need to be a high degree of similarity when describing the same item? For example, a job ad is going to contain a list of qualifications -- how are you going to advertise the same job without copying the list of qualifications?

Only the expressive elements, not the functional/utilitarian ones, are subject to copyright -- so the necessary similarity doesn't count against you in a copyright case, and highly functional language is by nature less protected.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (2)

I_am_Jack (1116205) | about 2 years ago | (#40844729)

Much the same way that while all English-language novels use the same words, it's their arrangement that governs their uniqueness. Craigslist isn't trying to prevent posters from selling their items on other sites; they're trying to prevent scrapping sites from re-posting content and selling ads to support that.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

sohmc (595388) | about 2 years ago | (#40845015)

What if you release your copyright? For example, in your post you write, "The author of this advert has released all content within this page to the public domain. In case this is not legally possible, the creator grants anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law."

Sure, CL would have a license, but the license would be worthless. Since most cases, copyrighting, "Hey I need a roommate" is pointless, I see no bad side for retaining your rights.

Can someone with more lawyer points provide insight?

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

ilsaloving (1534307) | about 2 years ago | (#40845915)

We'll find out the answer to that question after the Samsung vs Apple suit is over. :)

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

Trepidity (597) | about 2 years ago | (#40844375)

Two different listings for a $30 mattress that aren't identical would not necessarily be "derivative works" though, just parallel works. I mean, you can't copyright the idea of selling a mattress for $30; the only copyright Craigslist would be gaining would be on the specific text of a specific ad.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

omnichad (1198475) | about 2 years ago | (#40844735)

Unless they put fake ads in there to prove they are derivative - just like the GPS makers and their fake roads to nowhere.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

poetmatt (793785) | about 2 years ago | (#40845225)

except that even in acting like you give them the copyright, fair use nullifies all of this - as almost any use of the listings that involves modifying them is a clear cut case of fair use.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 2 years ago | (#40844445)

I bet they do enforce it on an individual basis against other sites; this allows them to maintain a monopoly position on online classifieds with legal force. All they need is a bot to look for their content and an automated DMCA system.

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

Ghostworks (991012) | about 2 years ago | (#40845983)

IANAL, but can't you just get around this by calling yourself a search engine and falling back on the DMCA's safe harbor rules?

"Introducing myBlock, the web's first completely physically aware search engine, powered by Google! Search for terms that apply to you and get results that apply to your city, town, or state... all visually displayed using Google Maps technology! We're still in beta, but we're growing every day.

"We currently crawl and index up to... [1]... pages! Stay tuned for more!"

Granted, you could catch flack for not obeying robots.txt (which you aren't legally required to do, and which these sites already probably avoid anyway). It's probably also a good idea to see what you can do to establish a business relationship with Google (read: pay them something) to avoid having the rug pulled out from under you on the mapping front. But otherwise, is there even a bar for what legally constitutes a search engine?

Re:it's stupid, but I don't think as strong as tha (1)

JohnFen (1641097) | about 2 years ago | (#40846633)

IANAL, but can't you just get around this by calling yourself a search engine and falling back on the DMCA's safe harbor rules?

No, the safe harbor provision doesn't work that way.

Craigslist is a shithole (4, Interesting)

SuperBanana (662181) | about 2 years ago | (#40843963)

As someone currently trying to find a place to live - craigslist is a shithole. Everything except the by-owner apartment section is just horrible, with realtors keyword spamming and posting the same ads multiple times a day; nobody flags them. Age/gender/orientation/class discrimination is rampant and uncontrolled (in my particular neighborhood, you have to be late-20's, GLBT or female, and a grad student, or nobody wants to live with you or have you as a tenant.) It's also firmly stuck around 1996 technology. The searching sucks. The new photo gallery sucks (makes printing or PDF-saving an ad difficult.) They still don't do any kind of validation on the address fields, which makes apartment/room hunting a nightmare because people can't seem to handle "enter nearest cross-streets" 50% of the time. Up until recently they were profiteering off the sex industry (which uses human trafficking) and fought bitterly when the state attorneys went after them for it. About the only two things CL has going for it: pages are served reasonably fast, and the site doesn't go down very often. Really, guys: there's a REASON WHY sites like Padmapper and others exist...

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (2)

characterZer0 (138196) | about 2 years ago | (#40844067)

CL only has 1 thing going for it: most people use it. Just like eBay.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1, Insightful)

rahvin112 (446269) | about 2 years ago | (#40844597)

Only one thing? Maybe the fact that in most cases (there are select areas where it's illegal to post ads without the company verifying all the information is accurate) you don't have to pay a dime to post a classified ad. Maybe you would prefer the old world of newspaper classifieds where you paid $70 for a single weekend listing AND the newspaper did no copy control.

Craigslist doesn't charge money, they don't generally interfere in postings and there is little to no advertising (there is spam, as should be expected on any free site).

Those are all the positives, Craig has also promised that he'll never take advertising and that hes not ever going to charge for listing where he isn't forced to by local laws. Again a positive. Now you want the guy to spend more of his own money to make the site "flashy" so his bandwidth costs you aren't paying go up for no clear benefit for anyone. Good plan, why don't you send him the million bucks that will cost and maybe he'll consider it.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

SolitaryMan (538416) | about 2 years ago | (#40845089)

Anybody who ever created dynamic websites knows that their bandwidth usage is lower than that of more "static" counterparts.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (2)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#40845283)

Craig has also promised that he'll never take advertising and that hes not ever going to charge for listing where he isn't forced to by local laws.

I guess he has already broken the promise by charging for job postings and apartment listing by brokers (in certain cities). He also used to charge for posting ads in the adult only sections.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (2)

kenj0418 (230916) | about 2 years ago | (#40846065)

Now you want the guy to spend more of his own money to make the site ....

No, but it would be nice if he didn't sue people who created add-ons that do make his site more usable, and that direct the eventual traffic back to him.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

jd2112 (1535857) | about 2 years ago | (#40844711)

CL only has 1 thing going for it: most people use it. Just like eBay.

Craigslist has two things going for it: They are not eBay (and therefore don't suck as much), and they are free.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40846559)

CL is obviously cheaper than Ebay, but you get what you pay for. CL is nearly unusable for many things; you can't find anything on there, and because it's so locally-oriented, many things are never posted there to begin with. Ebay and CL really serve two different markets much of the time. If you're looking for something small and shippable, then Ebay is the place to go, and you'll have a relatively easy time finding it. If you're looking for a piece of bulky used furniture in your local area, CL is a better bet, though it'll be a pain in the ass to wade through all the ads to find it because the site's design and organization sucks so hard. If you're looking for a room for rent or a sublet, Ebay doesn't serve that market at all (though PadMapper is a much better choice here since they have the brilliant idea of putting them on a map, something that's obviously far too advanced a concept for the people at CL).

Yes, Ebay's fees really suck, but at least they put a lot of thought into site design and usability, unlike Craigslist. I'm not saying that Ebay is the epitome of site design (there's other, smaller auction sites that are largely as good), but compared to the shithole that is Craigslist, it sure looks like it.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844073)

Try using Hotpads.com and search for foreclosures. You'll never rent again.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (3, Funny)

Skarecrow77 (1714214) | about 2 years ago | (#40844091)

craigslist was a technological shithole when I last went apartment shopping in the mid 2000s.

amazingly it now looks and works... exactly the same?

I guess they're getting their money's worth out of that "beginning html" book?

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1, Insightful)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 2 years ago | (#40844255)

craigslist was a technological shithole when I last went apartment shopping in the mid 2000s.

amazingly it now looks and works... exactly the same?

I guess they're getting their money's worth out of that "beginning html" book?

Old handyman's adage:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Also, Occam's Razor.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40846077)

I tend to curse handymen whenever I encounter remnants of their work. Things like loose and live electric wires in the attic, gfci receptacles wired backwards so that they have power but don't protect anyone, and a ceiling fan falling from the ceiling because they used the wrong sized screws to attach it. Yes, it became completely detached and literally fell off of the ceiling.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40846679)

Sounds nice, except that, as the OP pointed out, Craigslist IS broken, and all these years later still isn't fixed at all.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844365)

I wish where I live we could go back to the days where you had to pay to post an ad. CR has totally destroyed finding people who don't play games. Most selling things are totally classless fools. Trying to find anything on their for music or whatever else is a joke, and I no longer use it. It's the Walmart of web sites.

I noticed people like to play games and have your ad removed for being inappropriate but don't have to justify why. It's total crap. CR is shit.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

rolfwind (528248) | about 2 years ago | (#40844323)

I tried using Craigslist. It's not for me. There are several complaints. They're still doing the old "by city" nonsense that leave a lot of people out. By zip code and radius would be much better for us suburbanites and rural dwellers.

Also, when you charge nothing, you invite a lot of spam posts. They should charge something. Doesn't have to be a lot. 50 cents or a dollar an ad. It's by far the easiest way to remove nonsense. If they still want free ads, if I were them, I'd make the site with a filter that the browser can manipulate for all ads and then "filtered for spam". Let the people who don't care to pay, still put their ads in the pile, albeit with all the noise.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (2)

hawguy (1600213) | about 2 years ago | (#40844383)

As someone currently trying to find a place to live - craigslist is a shithole. Everything except the by-owner apartment section is just horrible, with realtors keyword spamming and posting the same ads multiple times a day; nobody flags them.

And don't forget about the scammers. When I was looking for an apartment, out of 12 ads I replied to, 8 were scammers of the form "I'm an out of town landlord, I can't release the address to you until you submit an application at this website" (where the website asks for everything a credit app would ask for like social security number, current and previous addresses, etc). All 8 were worded almost identically with minor changes here and there, so I suspect it's a group of scammers using the same scheme. 2 of the responses were of the type "Thank you for responding, you are the first to respond so you can have the apartment, just western union a nominal $200 security deposit to me and I'll meet you at the apartment with the keys". The other 2 didn't answer at all.

Finally I ended up renting from a big apartment complex since I got tired of wading through the obvious CL scams and spams (like Luxury 3 bedroom apartment with large fenced yard for $1450/month (in downtown San Francisco)) only to have to wade through even more scammers that managed to put up a legitimate looking ad (which I found that they sometimes do by reposting a legitimate ad that expired from the site)

Most of the scammers get flagged down after a day or two, but by then it's too late.

If CL isn't going to do a better job of screening their ads (like maybe charging a fee to landlords), I wish they'd go away since "free" craigslist makes it harder for new and better services to start up - Landlords turn to CL first because it's free.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

Grishnakh (216268) | about 2 years ago | (#40846719)

Yep, I ran into this recently too; one "landlord" was "temporarily" living in Africa and wanted applications sent there.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

fl!ptop (902193) | about 2 years ago | (#40844423)

craigslist is a shithole

I won't go that far, but it is somewhat cumbersome to use in certain circumstances. For example, a colleague and I were planning a trip to Cleveland to hire a new manager, and wanted to post an ad on CL about a week before we were going to be there. This way we could do a phone interview, arrange a meeting, etc. all before getting to Cleveland, instead of posting it when we got there and then sitting around for a week doing nothing.

The posts we submitted kept getting ghosted, and the only reason we could figure was because the IP addresses we submitted from weren't in the Cleveland area. Sure enough, when we arrived in Cleveland we tried posting again using the exact same text and it was accepted.

As a side note, the posts were accepted only after we used the hotel's wireless network. When we tried posting using a USB cellular card plugged into a laptop, the posts kept getting ghosted, for probably the same reason. It was a pain in the ass, but you get what you pay for I guess.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (3, Insightful)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 2 years ago | (#40844473)

As someone currently trying to find a place to live - craigslist is a shithole.

CL is pretty bad, except when compared to the alternatives.

Age/gender/orientation/class discrimination is rampant and uncontrolled

If they are advertising for a tenant, then discrimination on age/gender is illegal, and CL will take down offending ads if you report them. If they are advertising for a roommate/boarder (someone who shares the same living space) then this discrimination is perfectly legal in many jurisdictions. Discrimination for/against GLBT tenants may or may not be illegal depending on the jurisdiction.

It's also firmly stuck around 1996 technology.

There is nothing wrong with that. 1996 technology is perfectly adequate for what CL is doing.

The searching sucks.

Use Google, and put "site:craigslist.org" as one of your search criteria.

Up until recently they were profiteering off the sex industry (which uses human trafficking)

One of the main reasons for abuse in the sex industry (including human trafficking), is that it is a hidden black market. By helping to make it more open and competitive, CL was arguably making it less abusive. I think it is unfair to blame CL for a problem created by politicians.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (2)

Shoten (260439) | about 2 years ago | (#40845355)

As someone currently trying to find a place to live - craigslist is a shithole.

CL is pretty bad, except when compared to the alternatives.

Saying that there isn't a Ruth's Chris nearby does not make McDonald's into a steak house.

Age/gender/orientation/class discrimination is rampant and uncontrolled

If they are advertising for a tenant, then discrimination on age/gender is illegal, and CL will take down offending ads if you report them. If they are advertising for a roommate/boarder (someone who shares the same living space) then this discrimination is perfectly legal in many jurisdictions. Discrimination for/against GLBT tenants may or may not be illegal depending on the jurisdiction.

Saying that muggings and rapes are illegal and that there are cops does not make a bad neighborhood into a good one.

It's also firmly stuck around 1996 technology.

There is nothing wrong with that. 1996 technology is perfectly adequate for what CL is doing.

Totally valid.

The searching sucks.

Use Google, and put "site:craigslist.org" as one of your search criteria.

We all know that Google's searching is good...but when you have to use Google as the lens through which you view a website...that website's searching sucks.

Up until recently they were profiteering off the sex industry (which uses human trafficking)

One of the main reasons for abuse in the sex industry (including human trafficking), is that it is a hidden black market. By helping to make it more open and competitive, CL was arguably making it less abusive. I think it is unfair to blame CL for a problem created by politicians.

Based on this logic, the people on street corners selling crack are also blameless. Look, it doesn't matter if there's a market for something bad, or why that is. It is still wrong to profit from it. I could make money doing bad things in many ways...but it's on me if I choose to do so. Period.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

Hatta (162192) | about 2 years ago | (#40845799)

Based on this logic, the people on street corners selling crack are also blameless

Quite true. People on the street corner selling crack are filling a demand at significant risk to themselves. They're not only blameless, but they're better people than the politicians who forced the commerce onto the street corner.

Look, it doesn't matter if there's a market for something bad, or why that is.

You're assuming that crack and prostitution are both bad. That's not true.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40846259)

Why are you always blaming everything bad on the politicians? By doing that, you imply that the right politician and the government can fix every one of those same problems. You must also believe that everything broken and everything working great is a direct result of a politiican, or do you only blame the things that are broken on a politician and things that are not broken are the result of some other mythical force?
People need to take responsibility for their own actions and quit blaming their and other peoples problems on the government, the mysterious "them", or some other random person or establishment. I beleive politicians can be blamed for giving unlimited handouts which erodes peoples desired to take on that personal responsibility.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

Sancho (17056) | about 2 years ago | (#40846673)

You must also believe that everything broken and everything working great is a direct result of a politiican, or do you only blame the things that are broken on a politician and things that are not broken are the result of some other mythical force?

Politicians criminalized drug use and sales. They are clearly the reason that the market for drugs has to go underground.

quit blaming their and other peoples problems on the government

When the government is creating the problem, it's perfectly reasonable to rest the blame there.

This is really odd, because usually this kind of response comes up when someone wants the government to help them in some way (providing food, shelter, health care) instead of when the government is restricting what people do (selling drugs, leasing their bodies.)

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (2)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 2 years ago | (#40845841)

Based on this logic, the people on street corners selling crack are also blameless.

If crack was sold on Craiglist, there probably would be no dealers on the street corners.

Look, it doesn't matter if there's a market for something bad, or why that is. It is still wrong to profit from it.

I don't agree that people using their penises and/or vaginas in a way that you don't approve of is "bad", but let's set that aside for now. Plenty of people profit from making bad things better. Is it immoral to make catalytic converters, because you are profiting from the pollution you are preventing? If Craigslist was profiting from reducing sexual abuse that is a good thing.

I could make money doing bad things in many ways...

Craigslist was not "doing bad things", they were profiting, indirectly, from other people doing "bad" things. Again, I want to emphasize that I do not think anyone was doing anything "bad", except the police, politicians and, ultimately, the prudish voters.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40846613)

The funny thing is sex isn't illegal (in most cases). Neither is paying people for services. The only thing making prostitution illegal is that the service you are paying for is sex; to me this is totally wrongheaded.

Now, let me please point out that this is a separate issue from human trafficking which is already handled under existing anti-slavery laws. It also stands to reason that a legitimate sex-business would have LESS problem with human trafficking than the current underground one.

Not that I would pay for such a service, I just don't think that such services should be illegal (especially when they would be perfectly legal if they were not sold as services).

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#40845359)

One of the main reasons for abuse in the sex industry (including human trafficking), is that it is a hidden black market. By helping to make it more open and competitive, CL was arguably making it less abusive. I think it is unfair to blame CL for a problem created by politicians.

I believe GP is referring to the fact that CL directly profited from the sex industry, by charging for listings in their adult-only section. In fact half their revenues were estimated to be from this section.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about 2 years ago | (#40845603)

I believe GP is referring to the fact that CL directly profited from the sex industry, by charging for listings in their adult-only section.

So? If they were making the sex industry less abusive (and they probably were), then the fact that they profited from it is a good thing. I wish more people would engage in profitable activities that make the world a better place.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

ThatsMyNick (2004126) | about 2 years ago | (#40846023)

I dont believe they made it any better. I can also believe they profited from it.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844555)

Some normally prohibited categories of discrimination are legally permitted if sharing space (eg, flatmates/roommates).

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

wisnoskij (1206448) | about 2 years ago | (#40844833)

Completely agree, as a rental place owner I can say I have never gotten anything from it but loads and loads of automated spam, and the website itself is just shit. Use Kijiji, you will find/sell/rent a whole lot faster and easier.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (1)

bdabautcb (1040566) | about 2 years ago | (#40845153)

You must be looking for a place to live in MPLS.

Re:Craigslist is a shithole (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40846233)

Profiteering off sex ads? Craigslist originally did not charge for adult listings, and only started doing so as part of an agreement with the attorneys general. The point was to know who was placing the ad. Craigslist donated the profits from those listings to charities.

Then the AGs decided that wasn't good enough and demanded the listings be removed. Brilliant - remove them from a company that works with LE and force the ads underground. It didn't matter to Craigslist: they weren't making money on it anyway. No company making a profit would have caved as easily as they did (they didn't "fight bitterly" at all.)

Theory versus Reality (4, Insightful)

mr1911 (1942298) | about 2 years ago | (#40843999)

In theory this gives Craigslist the ability to enforce a copyright claim against the original poster for listing an ad elsewhere. In reality any such enforcement would be the end of Craigslist.

Anti-scraping sites (2)

qubezz (520511) | about 2 years ago | (#40844087)

I hope this is more a response to web sites that scrape Craigslist listings and put them up on fake blogs for search engines to find. When I make a Craigslist posting, I don't intend on my photos and contact information to be copied on some Malaysian or Russian site, and hopefully this will give Craigslist ammo to get these sites taken down by now having copyright or license to the content that is posted there.

More targeted wording (1)

tepples (727027) | about 2 years ago | (#40844175)

So how would you have worded something to go after web sites that scrape CL without making it something to go after the original poster?

Re:Anti-scraping sites (1)

1u3hr (530656) | about 2 years ago | (#40844429)

copied on some Malaysian or Russian site, and hopefully this will give Craigslist ammo to get these sites taken down

You think anyone in Russia would give a fuck if CL sent them a C&D?

Re:Anti-scraping sites (1)

maxdread (1769548) | about 2 years ago | (#40844699)

It's also another tool they can use to go after sites like padmapper which make apartment hunting on craigslist almost pleasant, it's a shame.

Re:Anti-scraping sites (1)

TheLink (130905) | about 2 years ago | (#40845565)

And what if the sites scrape the listings and modify them slightly? Thesaurus, add typos.

At what point would it be considered a new work and not a derivative work?

Re:Theory versus Reality (1)

1u3hr (530656) | about 2 years ago | (#40844387)

In theory this gives Craigslist the ability to enforce a copyright claim Well, it gives them an excuse to go to court. But if it ever went to trial, the whole idea of copyright on a simple advertisement (not including a photo) would stand up.

So, another abuse of copyright in the offing.

Re:Theory versus Reality (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 2 years ago | (#40844481)

The copyright claim wouldn't be against the poster, it would be against the Craigslist competitor to whom the original poster copied their ad. I'm certain Craigslist is fine with that.

Re:Theory versus Reality (1)

mark-t (151149) | about 2 years ago | (#40845071)

It might be pretty difficult for Craigslist to do that if the original ad contained some explicit text that authorized ad scrapers to copy the ad to their own site.

Of course, it's well within Craigslist's rights to remove any such ads from their site, but such ads would still have to be manually flagged and removed, and unless a person had a specific interest in making sure that ads complied with such terms of use, I'm not sure how quickly all such ads would actually get removed.

Do the words "go to hell" mean anything to them? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844001)

I'll grant they'll never be stupid enough to go after an individual for publishing an ad they've written on Craigslist and another site. I agree this is a move against extension sites.

But we're starting to see that Craigslist isn't the little humble site it used to claim to be.

Why is Craigslist so popular? (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 2 years ago | (#40844015)

So, why have none of the other forsale sites caught on? I realize Craigslist is popular because Craigslist is popular, but then again, so was MySpace.

It used to be a no nonsense site. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844069)

Now it's the site everyone else uses. (And don't do the "I don't use it" thing, you know what I mean.)

Re:Why is Craigslist so popular? (2)

Bigby (659157) | about 2 years ago | (#40844177)

Anonymity

Not sure if this is still the case, but it did/does one heck of a job keeping you anonymous.

Re:Why is Craigslist so popular? (1)

canajin56 (660655) | about 2 years ago | (#40844399)

I think Kijiji is going pretty well, at least in Canada. Someone I know was looking for a room to rent for school, and found many times (she said 10 times) as many rooms and suites available on Kijiji. It's better organized, too, apparently.

Re:Why is Craigslist so popular? (1)

compro01 (777531) | about 2 years ago | (#40844539)

UsedEverywhere is also a sizable force, at least here in the prairies.

Good (1)

Hadlock (143607) | about 2 years ago | (#40844039)

Half the posts on the "craigslist extensions" sites are outdated/deleted already anyways.
 
I 3 craigslist, found two roommates, multiple apartments/houses, bicycles, computers, cars, telescopes... currently looking for a piano on there.

Oh, is that so? (1)

sqrt(2) (786011) | about 2 years ago | (#40844045)

Yeah, good luck enforcing that.

By reading this post you agree to give me exclusive rights to any patentable ideas you ever come up with, in perpetuity throughout the universe, and at any time in the past should time travel become possible.

That's interesting. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844311)

By reading this post you agree to return to me any rights you may have held to any patentable ideas I have every come up with or will, and offer to me the right to purchase your own for no more than 5 USD. This agreement supersedes any, past, present or future and is irrevocable, in this universe and any other, in perpetuity.

Also, puppies.

I'm okay with it (2)

KrazyDave (2559307) | about 2 years ago | (#40844181)

I make a nice piece of change off of CL and have found lots of good things there, too. I think it's one of the few business models that is innocuous and beneficial and they should be left alone by predators and usurpers like those extension sites.

Another one down (2, Interesting)

JohnFen (1641097) | about 2 years ago | (#40844207)

That's insane. I've used Craigslist quite a lot for various things, but I'm not about to give them (or anyone else who hasn't hired me to produce something for them) exclusive rights to anything whatsoever.

So, I guess Craigslist effectively no longer exists for me. I'm not angry or upset with CL about this, merely disappointed that they've made their TOS so unacceptable to me that I can't use them. I can't wait for the service that comes to replace it!

Re:Another one down (1)

l0ungeb0y (442022) | about 2 years ago | (#40845291)

FFS -- I am so fucking sick and tired of whiny passive-aggressive asshats who say shit like "XYZ-SITE IS DEAD TO ME!! Booh-hoo" every time they change ToS policy or slightly increase rates to stay in business.

You know just as well as I that you will be back to Craigslist in full force ... just as soon as your jimmies get unrustled.
Here's a clue: Next time, instead of acting like a whiny little shit, why don't you write an email to whatever service has offended you and encourage others to do the same. Unlike the US Govt, corporations, and especially online services take feedback very earnestly. If they see a push-back from their user base, they are likely to reconsider their position.

Re:Another one down (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40845803)

FFS -- I am so fucking sick of people whining about whiners, who have every right to express their opinion on a news story.

Stop trying to stymie boycott efforts just because YOU YOURSELF cant manage to muster the will power to take your eyes off the screen.

Re:Another one down (1)

JohnFen (1641097) | about 2 years ago | (#40846271)

Wow, I must have hit a nerve!

My jimmies aren't in a twist at all, unlike yours, apparently. However, I actually take contracts seriously and if I cannot accept their terms I don't enter into them. So no, I won't be back. not because I'm in some kind of snit, but because I'm treating Craigslist with the respect of honoring the terms they are laying down.

Re:Another one down (1)

kwerle (39371) | about 2 years ago | (#40845657)

FTFA:
Clicking "Continue" confirms that craigslist is the exclusive licensee of this content, with the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent.

Do you think that content means advertising the thing in question or do you think it means the html content of the page.

I think it means the latter, and I can post the same thing wherever I want.

I think it means that scrapers are disallowed.

Relax. This story sucks. The editors should have followed up with CraigsList and posted an informed story.

Re:Another one down (1)

JohnFen (1641097) | about 2 years ago | (#40846385)

Do you think that content means advertising the thing in question or do you think it means the html content of the page.

I think that it means the words and pictures I'm uploading to Craigslist, because that's what it says. True, I could reword the ad special for Craigslist and use different pictures, but that's not the point. Besides, why should I bother?

I understand that their concern is scrapers, and that this is a piece in how they want to deal with them. That's fine, and entirely beside the point as well. I don't want to give them exclusive rights to my ad copy regardless of why they want it. Exclusive rights are a pretty strong thing, not to be given out lightly.

just link to your images (1)

schlachter (862210) | about 2 years ago | (#40845731)

Put your images up in the cloud and just link to them in the craigslist post...so that they render in the craigslist page without the reader having to click through. This is how I generally post to craigslist anyways.

I don't really care if craigslist wants to try to own my text; but I definitely wouldn't want them to get rights to photos I took of my own stuff.

I've had good luck. (1)

Westwood0720 (2688917) | about 2 years ago | (#40844421)

Honestly, I've had pretty decent luck on the site. I buy shitbox cars and resell them fairly often. I also got a HUGE collection of Matco tools. Just ignore the "This item still for sale?" emails and I really don't have an issues. I also clearly label in my ads "CASH ONLY". /shrug

EBAY wants to kill Craigslist (-1, Flamebait)

avandesande (143899) | about 2 years ago | (#40844553)

You do know that Ebay purchased Craigslist? They recently have been taking legal action people making software to search multiple cities for items.
Ultimately they want to make it so inhospitable that it is a worse experience than using eBay.

Re:EBAY wants to kill Craigslist (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40845151)

Ebay absolutely does not own craigslist. They own a minority share of it and have zero power to "kill it"

Re:EBAY wants to kill Craigslist (1)

airdweller (1816958) | about 2 years ago | (#40846577)

I don't know that. Nor does anyone else. Nor do you apparently. eBay owns under 25% of CL.

PS. I don't have any problems using either. Moreover, I find both very easy to use. I must be doing something wrong. Alternatively, I might just have a functioning brain.

What's stopping you? (1)

thmsdrew (2608605) | about 2 years ago | (#40844731)

What's stopping you from changing up your advertisement a bit on different websites? You put up a specific advertisement that they own the rights to? So change a few words, leave some details out, add some different details. No problem. You'd probably end up doing that anyway to cater to the specific medium you're advertising on.

Re:What's stopping you? (1)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about 2 years ago | (#40845805)

What's stopping you from changing up your advertisement a bit on different websites?

Probably nothing, as long as it is different enough to not be seen as a derivative work.

You'd probably end up doing that anyway to cater to the specific medium you're advertising on.

That, I tend to doubt. People are lazy, and cut-and-paste is easy. I would imagine most companies posting job ads would post the exact same ad to multiple job sites, which is now (apparently) prohibited by Craigslist.

Thus making craigslist... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844753)

... the world's foremost content provider of dickpicks.

Padmapper without Craigslist (1)

addie (470476) | about 2 years ago | (#40844757)

I've changed apartments twice in the last year. When Padmapper was using Craigslist, it worked brilliantly and I loved it. Now that it doesn't, I was forced to go back to Craigslist proper, as the other rental sites don't have nearly the same volume of listings, making Padmapper pretty much useless.

That was disappointing to me, but I guess Craigslist won if they kept me coming back. I wish they could find a way to play nice.

FUCK CRAIG NEWMARK (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40844763)

I saw this coming years ago.

Newmark was never an altruist, he is a greedy scumbag.

And fuck you too, Buckmaster, you're both pieces of shit.

I don't think this is legally valid (4, Interesting)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 2 years ago | (#40844871)

Clicking "Continue" confirms that craigslist is the exclusive licensee of this content, with the exclusive right to enforce copyrights against anyone copying, republishing, distributing or preparing derivative works without its consent.

Is this legally enough for Craigslist? Wouldn't they need a full copyright assignment in order to pursue copyright infringement claims?

I bet if questioned in court, such a claim would be thrown out due to lack of standing, since copyright ownership would belong to the writer of the post, not with Craigslist. After all, that was the reasoning that killed Righthaven [slashdot.org] when they tried to make a similar deal with their newspaper clients.

Re:I don't think this is legally valid (1)

Bill Dimm (463823) | about 2 years ago | (#40845827)

Very interesting point. I wish I had mod points for you...

I think this'll really hurt some of the creativity (1)

multicoregeneral (2618207) | about 2 years ago | (#40844877)

Craigslist rnr across the country has been a great place to read and collaborate on creative stuff. Great (and awful) stuff has been coming out of it for years because it's totally uncensored and unmoderated (for the most part). I'm not sure I would feel the same way about using it if I had to assign sole copyright ownership and enforcement powers to Craigslist. This really gives me pause.

And another thing. (1)

multicoregeneral (2618207) | about 2 years ago | (#40844905)

If they own the copyright... doesn't that also give them liability for defamation? That couldn't be good for them. What the hell are they thinking?

Re:And another thing. (1)

TheSpoom (715771) | about 2 years ago | (#40844927)

They don't own the copyright; they own an exclusive license to it. Subtly different, and my reasoning as to why they shouldn't be able to pursue copyright claims using it (see my earlier post).

The Ultimate Sanctuary for Spam & Scams (1)

Penurious Penguin (2687307) | about 2 years ago | (#40845175)

The housing section is appalling. It is so bad that crazed customers are forced to counter-spam just to fight back against the spammers. There are many instances of duplicate ads numbering in the 100s, and the only thing craigslist has done is set a feeble timeout function for the particular advertisers. There are also many ads which are unique, but are little more than external links to more spam.

One group of spammers/scammers lists hundreds of housing ads per month with clearly erroneous images showing, for example, heavy snow in Florida. They also like to trick people into credit reports, which they go to elaborate measure to accomplish. I traced them to the Netherlands, gathered all the other info I could and sent it to a particular handle at craigslist.com after sending it to the FBI too. Craigslist replied acknowledging the issue, but never did anything about it. The FBI never replied.

Something really did needed to change, but I doubt this new TOS will have any positive effect. Craigslist started as something truly fantastic, but which avoided things like redundant taxation. I guess it went sour when people began murdering people and such. Though I sometimes wonder if in its earlier stages it wasn't enough of a threat to certain groups that it was passively attacked. My conclusion is that it remains useful as a service, but has generally gone to shit.

PS: handle = jim

Craiglist asking to be replaced? (1)

sapgau (413511) | about 2 years ago | (#40845363)

Craiglist should be careful what it wishes for! They should be in talks with PadMapper et. al. so it doesn't get caught painfully obsolete.
How difficult could it be to slap some lipstick on that terrible design? Obviously their layout is not what distinguishes them so I think a great Kickstarter project could find some funding to create a Craiglist replacement that would bring it to the 21 century.

Some endorsements, some marketing and a more fit competitor could be born very easily.
So who's in?

Does make them liable for posts? (1)

MyFirstNameIsPaul (1552283) | about 2 years ago | (#40845489)

If they are going to claim they are owners of the content of a post, doesn't this make them liable for the post's content? They voluntarily took down the 'Adult Services' ads for PR purposes, but they were never liable for any of the goings on there because they claimed that they don't own the content and they don't review each ad. But now if they're claiming they own the copyright on the ad, then doesn't that defense go out the window? Doesn't seem like a worthwhile trade-off to me.

Don't post the original to Craigslist (5, Informative)

DM9290 (797337) | about 2 years ago | (#40846209)

If I have an original X (and all the rights), and make a copy X' and upload X' to you and give you exclusive rights to X', that will let you decide how X' is copied or distributed, but it doesn't say anything about any rights on the original X.

"this content" in the Craiglist agreement refers to the content which you UPLOADED, not the original from where you derived it. this agreement only really prevents you or someone else from downloading your ad from Craiglist and republishing it without their permission. And it ensures Craiglist can publish that material anywhere they want. It doesn't prevent you from continuing to use your originals and make copies of your originals.

The original is NOT the content which you uploaded, even if it looks the same.

The original is the original, and as it is worded, the agreement does not mention anything about you giving craigslist any rights over the original. It only refers to "this content" which means whatever you post to craiglist -- not more than that.

CL are slimy (0)

execthis (537150) | about 2 years ago | (#40846433)

About as slimy as you can get.

I believe that deal they cut with eBay years ago, whereby they got a huge wad of cash, was so that they would NOT EVER innovate or improve buying/selling features of their site. I believe they got paid off to keep their interface crappy.

So these extension sites come along and try to fill the gaps with the terrible interface and they get sued.

And the EFF has awarded CL in the past for their "community" contributions. What a bunch of BS! I would love to see CL lose their monopolies and see a more open playing field.

Craigslist is a joke to begin with. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40846545)

Everytime I looked for a job on there I would show up and the job was nothing like it was described as. Ive had multiple places bring people in groups to have more of a speech about why they are a great place and then send them all home to make it feel more like they were just tricking people to come in for a commercial. Every single job I looked for on there was a complete waste of my time.

The "dating" area is just full of spam bots and guys trying to get other guys to have sex with them and the few real women are pretentious, snobby bitches or just women "looking for some help" which translates into they are whores wanting money.

The buy/sell area is a joke as well as most people want huge amounts of money for complete garbage or they just scream "Come meet me in this parking lot to buy what Im selling so I can rob you". Hell I gave some stuff away in the free section and people still giving me shit about getting something free.

Id never messed with the other areas of CL but from my experince that place is a shit hole.

Craigslist: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious.

Thesaurus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 2 years ago | (#40846601)

So all these sites have to do is use a thesaurus program to swap out certain words and they're good?
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