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US IPv6 Usage Grows To 3 Million Users

samzenpus posted more than 2 years ago | from the growing-and-growing dept.

The Internet 155

darthcamaro writes "There is a myth that IPv6 is only for those in Asia, but that's not true. According to new data discussed this week at an IETF conference, there are more IPv6 users in the U.S. than anywhere else in the world — coming in at 3 million. From the article: 'George Michaelson, senior R&D scientist at APNIC (Asia Pacific Network Information Centre) has a reasonable idea of what the current levels are globally for IPv6 adoption, thanks to some statistical research he has been doing. In his view, IPv6 is now a reality in terms of adoption. "I think you're used to us standing up and saying 'woe is me, woe is me, v6 isn't happening,'" George Michaelson, senior R&D scientist at APNIC (Asia Pacific Network Information Centre) said. "But it is actually happening, these are not trivial numbers of people that are now using IPv6 on a routine basis."'"

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IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (5, Interesting)

arnoldo.j.nunez (1300907) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862775)

As of June 2012, I noticed I had an IPV6 IP address. The MAC address of my wireless card was used in the actual IPV6 address itself. However, I am not sure what I can really do with this. The IPV6 address is more cumbersome to remember. Can I reasonably expect any tangible benefits as a guy who doesn't really do much IT related activities (i.e. web surfing, email, etc.)?

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (2)

Severus Snape (2376318) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862821)

I would just be lucky you have an IPV6 address, very surprised AT&T are that far forward in giving ordinary users one. Kudos to them I guess.

IPv6 router at Fry's (-1, Troll)

CuntFister69Nigger (2699425) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863145)

OK I'm out last night and decide to buy a new router for my computer. Sadly the Best Buy only seems to carry a few these days so I was forced to go to Frys Electronics. Frys is a great store for the geek in me with one noticeable downside. It's next door to Niggerland in S Phoenix.

Anyway I head out carrying my trusty concealed weapon at 8pm to pickup the new card. When I exit the highway my senses go on high alert as coming down the offramp I see several knuckledraggers hanging out on the corner. Heading a block I pull into Frys barely dodging several niggers on the sidewalk. Parking I remember that Frys is what I call a "no self defense zone" because they have posted you can't bring guns in. So I leave my trusty gun in the car and go in feeling naked among the assorted racial crowd. I love Frys and you can meet others of many races there but there is also the nigger.

So I'm back in the computer section looking at the routers and some brat nigger runs by screaming. It was clearly a half breed with the Brillo pad hair. A few seconds later what I assumed was its brother raced by also with the half breed skin and Brillo hair. While these two savages were running around playing tag (or was it practicing running from cops?) I continued to look at the routers.

Soon a white woman pulls up with a cart. I don't pay much attention to her until i notice the bassinet in the cart. There was ANOTHER niglet spawn! So this coal burner had bred three times with some feral ape and instead of mating with a human and perpetuating our society she chose muh-dik and the bastard spawn of apes. Just then the other two light skinned niglets ran up "Momma Momma canz wez hvz a new kompeter?". They even talked like a street nigger! I'm sure they probably lived in the section 8 housing over in niggerville a few blocks away.

It just reminded me how coal burners are the lowest of the low and traitors to our species. Once you've laid down with a nigger forever are you contaminated.

On the way home, I decide to go to Sonic. For those of you who don't know what Sonic is, it's a restaurant chain where you pull up to a stall in your car, order your food through a speaker, and some girl on rollerskates brings it out to you.

So I stop in there for lunch today and some dumb negro bitch is about 3 stalls over from me. Her 6 year old niglet is dancing around outside the car (I was really hoping to see her get run over).

She was already there when I pulled up. I ordered, and a few minutes later I had my food delivered.

I was sitting there enjoying the meal and I notice her little shitskin is still running around outside and the obama-worshipping bitch has a fucking puss on her face and is getting quite agitated.

I ordered desert, and several minutes go by before some chick skates up to me with an ice cream sundae.

Black whore starts honking her car and yelling to the girl on skates. Girl on skates goes to see what's wrong. I can't hear them but I see some animated conversation (on the part of the human - the ape was flailing her arms). The only word I could make out was "raciss!"

As the server skates on by I got out to ask her what the commotion was about. Turns out the dumb jiggaboo never pushed the button on the stall to place an order. She was expecting someone to magically know she was there waiting to order, and convinced no one was helping her because she was black.

Fucking CUNT. I would have SHIT in her food if I worked there.

Re:IPv6 router at Fry's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863365)

The goggles, they don't work

Re:IPv6 router at Fry's (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863895)

The goggles, they do nothing. Damn troll.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (5, Informative)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862879)

Why do you need to remember it at all? I certainly don't have any of my IP addresses memorized. When I need it, I usually end up cutting and pasting.

The whole point of this DNS thing is that you're not supposed to need to IP address day-to-day. Anything else is sloppy administration.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Kergan (780543) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863617)

You're obviously not managing a network...

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (2)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863651)

Slashdot needs a "sniping": downmod for people who write a nasty rebuttal without bothering to explain why they disagree. In this case, you might consider sharing why it's so difficult to manage a network so that nobody needs to know IP addresses.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863745)

You're kidding, right?

Your post: "Anything else is sloppy administration."

That's a blanket condemnation of anyone who does things differently than you without explaining why you disagree with the OP!

GP's post: "You're obviously not managing a network..."

I'm not seeing the nastiness you're seeing in the GP. I'm just seeing a whole lot of hurt feelings from the one speaking hurtfully.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

Zuriel (1760072) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863779)

Oh, the DNS server isn't working properly? I'll just SSH in and fix it. By connecting to it over the network. Using DNS.

Relying on DNS works fine... until it stops working fine, due to software bugs or hardware failure or whatever. Being able to remember the IP address of your gateway, DNS server, web server, etc off the top of your head doesn't sound very useful, but network admins don't need to be told that they'll miss it.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864071)

Fine, in emergencies the IP address is something you need to know. But recall that I said "day to day use". We're talking about admins that just use IP addresses for everything because it's too much trouble to assign names.

I'd actually argue that the admin shouldn't be memorizing this stuff, even with IPv4. If it's only recorded in somebody's head, information has a way of not being available when people need it.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (5, Insightful)

bbn (172659) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864141)

The IP address of your gateway is always fe80::%eth0. Like this:

~$ ping6 -c1 fe80::%eth0
PING fe80::%eth0(fe80::) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from fe80::216:3eff:fe36:5f25: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=0.798 ms

--- fe80::%eth0 ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 1 received, 0% packet loss, time 0ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 0.798/0.798/0.798/0.000 ms

(slightly different syntax on windows)

Not that hard eh?

And nothing stops you from assigning easy to remember addresses to your stuff. In fact since you have little to no constraints, you can make up schemes to your liking. Your webserver could be 2001:db8:531::1. Your decide the ::1 part. You quickly learn that first three parts as it never changes it is "you". The prefix is also usually not any longer than a IPv4 address.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (2)

pspahn (1175617) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864419)

Congrats on your most recent +5 comment.

I don't deal with IP6 yet, but I do know that the day is coming.... likely to be determined by the powers at Century Link. I will never remember the specifics of your post, but I will remember that there are "localhost" type defaults and my Google search time will be reduced from 10 minutes to 1 minute.

Time is money and money is beer... so I guess I owe you a cold one. Swing by Denver (GABF is coming in October) to collect.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864765)

You have something wrong going on or have "unique", or wrong, equipment (this does not, and should not, work on linux, windows 7, OSX, or cisco). The link-local address is FE80::interfaceId where interfaceId is non-zero. You can figure out which of the routers on your network are advertising themselves as the default gateway (yes you can have more than one) by sniffing or just simply looking at the route table.

I personally like IPv6 addresses because you can give them personality like 2001:db8::c0de:babe and 2001:db8::dead:beef or if you are in your own test network 1::1 and 1::2 they are certainly quicker to type than any IPv4 address.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (4, Informative)

dissy (172727) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864737)

Why don't you have the IP entered in your connection bookmark? Both puTTY and SecurCRT store connection profiles, where you can put the IP instead of hostname for critical servers.

Bash has aliases and shell scripts to call ssh. Even windows CLI has batch scripts.
If "ssh ns1" doesn't resolve, I can run "~/.ssh/ns1.sh" easily enough, which contains the "ssh <ip>" command.

Also if your DNS regularly goes down, I'd guess remembering addresses is the least of your network troubles.

You can already use the alias fe80::%eth0 for your gateway. Best part is you only need to remember that single address, unlike IPv4 which requires me remembering many different "x.x.x.1" addresses used as the gateways right now.

You can even organize it identically to your IPv4 layout. You still only need to really remember 1-2 numbers that will change depending if you use a /24 or /16, and a single prefix that never changes.
Anyone managing larger than a /16 is already going to have the entire thing documented in a management system or at worse a wiki. Excel will not cut it at that size.
Basically put, if you have an IPv4 /12 or larger network, you already have software that manages the addresses for you. Nothing will change there with IPv6.

At home I have a /24. That means 3 octets are assigned and fixed already. Gives 253 usable addresses. Most of your IPv6 address will also be assigned.
Instead of x.x.x.1 you have yyyy::1
Instead of x.x.x.10 you have yyyy::10
Instead of x.x.x.100 you have yyyy::100
See the pattern here?

You can even avoid using the hex digits A-F and stick to 0-9 only.
Sure, per "group" you only get 9999 IPs instead of 65534 IPs, but either is better than 253 or less.

At work I manage a /16. That means 2 octets are fixed. I grouped that into 255 blocks of roughly 253 addresses each. Each block is a logical division.
x.x.0.y is routers/switches. x.x.1.y is servers. x.x.4.y are static IPs, and x.x.5.y are dynamic ones.
Instead, you can use yyyy::1:z and yyyy::2:z and so on. .

The best part, my IPv4 and IPv6 suffixes pretty much match for my "dot zero" infrastructure and "dot one" servers blocks. Learning the IPv6 prefix took no longer than remembering a brand new /28 allocated from an ISP.

Your fixed prefix will likely be 8 hex characters. Even a chimp can memorize 8 hex numbers they work with every day :P

The absolute worst situation is going to be having a post-it note in your wallet/purse with the prefixes on it... Pretty much what most of us network admins do anyway for any IPs assigned by upstream providers or other 3rd parties.

I have my entire internal /16 memorized fully. It's the 10ish tiny /29 and smaller blocks from my 4 ISPs that are the bitch to remember! Growing my internal IP blocks with IPv6 took literally less than one full day to memorize the prefix. Just because I waste most of my /64 allocation by padding it with zeros on the left doesn't matter now.
Once I get more than 20k network devices, they will be added slowly over time just like right now. You only have to learn new subnets individually as you add them in at the time they are created, and IPv6 will not change that.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865173)

i have this high tech piece of software on my pc called notepad...

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865337)

Which is why my DNS servers and critical infrastructure have fixed v6 addresses that are easy to remember and have *less* digits than their v4 counter parts.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

desertfool (21262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863663)

Amen. I know IP addresses of many things across my network. Not going to happen when we go to v6.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863739)

Explain to me why you need to know all those IP addresses. Is there a good reason these nodes don't have names?

The fact that IPv6 addresses aren't suitable for casual use would seem to be a good thing, in your case, since your IT people will be forced to take the time to assign names to everything — which they should do anyway.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865667)

Explain to me why you need to know all those IP addresses. Is there a good reason these nodes don't have names?

The fact that IPv6 addresses aren't suitable for casual use would seem to be a good thing, in your case, since your IT people will be forced to take the time to assign names to everything — which they should do anyway.

Because the internet does NOT operate via domain names. It's entirely run "by the numbers". All hardware - switches, routers, firewalls, ethernet cards - operates on ip addresses. The DNS is nothing but an indexing overlay, pretty much like the phone book is an overlay for the telephone numbering system. It's absolutely useless for machines. DNS resolution is a pointless, time-wasting extra step for hardware. IT people need to speak and understand the language of the hardware they manage.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

bbn (172659) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864163)

You just need to configure your network with DHCPv6 instead of autoconf. Or use static configuration. Then you are free to name your stuff prefix::1, ::2, ::3 and so on. Or any other scheme.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865193)

heh, if you're that worried about it just nat your network

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

neonmonk (467567) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863715)

I concur.

However, I don't think IPv4 is going anywhere for internal network management. I see no reason for internal servers to be using IPv6.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863929)

I concur.

However, I don't think IPv4 is going anywhere for internal network management. I see no reason for internal servers to be using IPv6.

That's my approach. Actually, when we (ever) get to the point that everybody uses IPv6 and we don't even get an IPv4 assignment from the ISP, this makes for a handy firewall rule: IPv6 traffic may traverse the gateway, but IPv4 traffic stays local.

We're a long way off, but I'm enjoying my bit of IPv6--even if it is not native from my ISP.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (2)

Jeremi (14640) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864493)

I see no reason for internal servers to be using IPv6.

You're probably right, but I have to say that fe80::foo link-local addresses are really handy for auto-configuring devices on a LAN, since they are guaranteed unique and also guaranteed never to change. The IPv4 equivalent (169.254.*.* self-assigned addresses) is a can of worms by comparison.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863659)

Wow, I don't think I've ever seen such a total non-answer get modded so highly. What is so informative about "whole point of this DNS thing is that you're not supposed to need to IP address day-to-day."?? That is so not the question the OP asked.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (2)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862925)

Probably not, for you. For companies that host complex websites, and that go through complex load balancing and proxy setups, it's invaluable for assigning SSL keys to particular IP addresses and using IP based virtual hosting instead. This solves an enormous number of complex and subtle configuration conflicts with web servers and load balancers.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862941)

Is it only your router that has an IPv6 address (acting as an IPv4-IPv6 bridge), or is it actually giving all the internal devices public IPv6 addresses?

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863085)

I suspect you're just seeing a link local address, like fe80::f6ce:46ff:fe30:12c5. This isn't routable. It's much like a 169.254.x.x link local address. You can talk to other nodes on your wireless, but nothing beyond a router.

Most likely you will have to replace your CPE device(s). Your DSL modem and/or your router (if they're two different devices) will have to be replaced as the manufacturer doesn't support it anymore and won't release an update to add IPv6 support.

This is the case for Comcast - you have to replace your cablemodem. If you have a router (and you should), you'll most likely have to replace it as well.

Hardware vendors should be massively promoting IPv6 as it means more sales.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (3, Informative)

SammyIAm (1348279) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863259)

Actually, I can confirm that at least with AT&T's U-Verse service that I've had a routable IPv6 address since probably February or March. They'e been rather quiet about the roll-out (I found out through some forums), but it seems to be legitimate.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

desertfool (21262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863673)

I still can't get a v6 address capable circuit for my testlab at work from at&t, without buying their 'managed service' along with it.

I'd rather spoon out my own guts that let at&t manage any part of my network. So not happening yet.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

Malf.me (2697131) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863473)

Back in April of 2012 I similarly randomly discovered I had IPv6 support. For me it was via RCN. Thanks to a friend's SSH server with a misconfigured fail2ban install and several failed login attempts over IPv4 I found myself connected over IPv6.

To answer your question I have yet to find a truly practical benefit. At the moment you can view a few IPv6-only test sites but that's about it for normal users.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863943)

beware -- ipv6 should come to fail2ban very soon -- you better fix your friend's configuration ;-)

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863719)

If you mac address was being used, then likely you are auto-configuring and you have a whole /64. What you can do with it is start having functioning end to end services between the various internet enabled devices in your house and the outside world.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864855)

If you mac address was being used, then likely you are auto-configuring and you have a whole /64. What you can do with it is start having functioning end to end services between the various internet enabled devices in your house and the outside world.

Not so simple. It sounds like a lame bridged IPv6 address like the ones my ISP is offering. That means your house can have up to 2**64 internet-enabled devices as long as they are on the same LAN. If you happen to have a home router, in all likelihood, the devices behind it can't reach the IPv6 network. No wonder they're not advertising it.

What a true IPv6 ISP should be providing is two IPv6 prefixes: a /48 (or /56) for your home plus another one (/64 or even /120) for the point-to-point link between your home and the ISP. The ISP should then route your /48 over the p2p link. Then, you could really connect your home to the IPv6 network and segment it to your heart's content.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865177)

I'm not following you. Your home LAN (assuming it can handle v6) gets the /64. Devices auto-assign by Mac address to all have unique v6 addresses. Why wouldn't the devices behind the home router be able to see the v6 space?

As for providing more than a /64 for home, I'm not sure why. And why would you not use your universal link for P2P?

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865527)

I'm not following you. Your home LAN (assuming it can handle v6) gets the /64. Devices auto-assign by Mac address to all have unique v6 addresses. Why wouldn't the devices behind the home router be able to see the v6 space?

That's because of neighbor discovery (the IPv6 equivalent of ARP). In the bridged /64 arrangement the ISP keeps one of those addresses and assumes every device in your home is on the same LAN segment. If you have a router in between, neighbor discovery will fail and the ISP won't be able to relay the packets between the devices and the network.

You will need the ISP to give you a routable prefix with a well-defined gateway address (typically, with a different prefix). Then, the ISP knows to route all packets through that gateway, and you can administer your IPv6 prefix any way you want.

As for providing more than a /64 for home, I'm not sure why. And why would you not use your universal link for P2P?

The original IPv6 standard granted a /48 to every subscriber (home) giving the subscriber 2**16 /64 subnetworks. I've heard the more recent idea is to grant a /56 to every home (256 subnetworks). The network prefix is fixed at /64 and the lower 64 bits of the address are meant to be reserved for autoconfiguration.

Many homes have multiple routers. Each router is a gateway between two networks. In IPv6 each router is a gateway between two /64 networks. So if your home has two routers, you will need three /64 networks: ISProuter1, router1router2, router2edge.

The prefix lengths are not a key here. If you configure your networks manually, you could survive with a /120 just fine and segment that in your home. But the ISP must have an entry in their routing tables pointing to your home gateway or you will have a crippled IPv6 experience.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (1)

Dagger2 (1177377) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865661)

He's talking about a transfer net. The home LAN doesn't get the /64 because the /64 is on the transfer net between the router and the ISP, and it can't magically go through the router to the LAN. You need a separate /64 (or larger) for the LAN side.

In order to use the addresses on the transfer network, you'd have to connect all of your devices up to your modem using a switch. But that's incompatible with v4, because your ISP will only give you one v4 address, so all of those extra devices would be v6-only.

The caveat is that a transfer net is only necessary if your upstream isn't marked NOARP (i.e. if it's Ethernet), which is typical of cable ISPs. If your upstream is a true point-to-point link, such as a PPP tunnel, then you don't need the transfer net at all. There are only two nodes on a PtP link, so there's no need to use IPs to identify which node you want to send traffic to: you just shove it down the link and it shows up at the other end. Most DSL ISPs can thus get away without using a transfer net.

And yes, there are uses for more than one /64 on a home LAN. Segregated wired/wireless is a common one, particularly with guest wifi networks (which typically use a separate subnet). Another is any situation where people cascade routers and end up with double NAT at the moment -- in v6 land, you handle that with DHCPv6-PD, which allows the second router to request a routed subnet from the first.

Re:IPV6 on AT&T Residential DSL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864517)

You no longer need to share an addresses between computers.

Not sharing IP addresses make things like VOIP, video calls, google video chat, or any other kind of peer to peer activity much more likely to work.

The longer we stay on IPv4 the sharing of IPv4 addresses is likely to get more intense with more layers of sharing. Those extra layers of sharing
are likely to slow down your web surfing, and email traffic.

Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40862839)

Slashdot has no IPv6. Boo, hiss. Some nerd website you are.

host www.slashdot.org
www.slashdot.org has address 216.34.181.48

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (3, Insightful)

Omnifarious (11933) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863007)

I agree. I've been disappointed in Slashdot over this for years. I've had a publicly routable IPv6 address since 2002 or so. :-)

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863307)

Then why did a fart slip out of your very own little asshole at the speed of light when you attempted to prove that which you're claiming? How comical! How comical!

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864289)

I agree. I've been disappointed in Slashdot over this for years. I've had a publicly routable IPv6 address since 2002 or so. :-)

Lots of us have had IPv6 addresses since 2002::/16 :-)

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (5, Funny)

artor3 (1344997) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863285)

You mean to tell me that an almost-entirely text site with no unicode support is slow to adopt new standards?!

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (1)

Teresita (982888) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863331)

When my Win98SE doesn't surf anymore because it can't handle the extra two bytes, maybe I'll care.

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (1)

Desler (1608317) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863383)

And no Unicode support either.

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (2)

bertok (226922) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863407)

They're in good company, like: www.nortel.com, www.juniper.com, www.alcatel-lucent.com

If some of the world's biggest network equipment manufacturers don't have IPv6 enabled, why would you expect a mere "news" site to be any better?

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863453)

Nortel is bankrupt, Juniper is juniper.net (with IPv6 support), and ipv6.alcatel-lucent.com works, although not ipv6 for www.alcatel-lucent.com

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863955)

All the big tech sites have akamaiedge.net IPv4 addresses. Well, not HP or IBM.

Re:Yet Slashdot remains IPv6 Free (3, Funny)

bbn (172659) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864233)

You just need to enter this into your /etc/hosts file:

2001:778:0:ffff:64::216.34.181.48 slashdot.org

Then slashdot.org is IPv6 enabled:

baldur@neaira:~$ curl -v -s http://slashdot.org/ [slashdot.org] | head
* About to connect() to slashdot.org port 80 (#0)
* Trying 2001:778:0:ffff:64:0:d822:b530... connected
> GET / HTTP/1.1
> User-Agent: curl/7.22.0 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.22.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1 zlib/1.2.3.4 libidn/1.23 librtmp/2.3
> Host: slashdot.org
> Accept: */*
>
http://slashdot.org/slashdot.xrds
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Verizon 4G (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40862889)

A large portion of the 3 million are probably Verizon 4G devices.

We had to upgrade one of the software packages we use solely because it logs IP addresses of web site visitors and it was crashing every time someone visited from a Verizon 4G smartphone.

Re:Verizon 4G (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863061)

AT&T U-verse and Comcast are the biggest IPv6 providers in the US.

my virgin mobile phone has a v6 address (1)

schwit1 (797399) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862917)

Virgin mobile is sprint. if phones are getting them then 3M would seem very low.

While only ~1% of top websites are IPv6 capable (5, Interesting)

hackertarget (1265522) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862921)

I did this analysis of the Alexa Top 1 million before World IPv6 day.
* 1.1% of sites in the top 1 million had AAAA records
* Only 4 of the top 50 tech companies websites were IPv6 capable

http://hackertarget.com/ipv6-in-top-sites-infographic/ [hackertarget.com]

Post World IPv6 day version to be released soon.

Re:While only ~1% of top websites are IPv6 capable (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864399)

Please let me know when 10% of websites support IPv6. Until then I do not care at all. :-D
Then let me know when it hits 20%. I might start pricing out IPv6.
Then let me know when it hits 50%. At that point I'll probably switch over.

Really? (0)

Cute and Cuddly (2646619) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862969)

In a planet with over seven billion people, that is not even 0.01%

Asia? (1)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40862997)

I've never heard this "Asia myth" and I find it hard to understand why anybody thinks IPv6 is not for the Gweilo. Because lots of Asians are signing on and all the big address blocks are taken? First off, IP address depletion is a problem everywhere and it doesn't make sense for Western ISPs to wait until the last minute to switch over. Though I guess many Asian ISP startups have decided it makes sense to leapfrog over IPv4.

The second point is that IPv6 isn't just about a bigger address space. That's certainly the most urgent, but IPv6 has many other features we need: better security, more efficient routing, more efficient use of mobile networks, etc.

Re:Asia? (1)

Mashiki (184564) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863055)

I think asia myth is a bit of a misnomer. Rather, it's had faster and a larger adoption because in some places the infrastructure was less mature, using either more current, or only a previous generation which could either be upgraded, or shuffled around reducing overhead costs. Compared to here, which has a lot of overhead costs for some ISP's, meaning some are all bent out of shape waiting, and waiting some more to do the upgrades. Heck my ISP(Teksavvy) has IPv6 for DSL, but not for cable, because the carrier they lease their headend connections from(Rogers) is still lagging way behind on deployment.

Re:Asia? (1)

Kergan (780543) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863265)

Simple... Half of the available IPv4 blocks are reserved for the US, over half of the world's population is in Asia, they're adopting cell phones at a rate of a new AT&T-sized carrier each year (chew on that...), and many of them are getting a smartphone as their first personal Internet device. Not to mention countries like Korea where everyone and his dog enjoys super fast broadband.

Re:Asia? (2)

desertfool (21262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863713)

I am holding off putting v6 in the network I manage because there is a severe lack of feature parity with v4. Sure, some of the stuff runs in software, but until the routers and switches actually start running the stuff in hardware and have all the features that are available with v4, then maybe we'll put it in.

Yes, we are putting in some workarounds to allow v6 only clients to get to our external resources. But even then, their ISP's are doing some 6to4 NAT to allow their customers to get to things like, I don't know, Slashdot.

Re:Asia? (2)

fm6 (162816) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864119)

Now, that brings back painful memories. I used to work at Sun, and I kept suggesting that the IPMI servers that were embedded in all our servers support IPv6. "No, not until our customers start asking for it." And of course the customers aren't asking for it because it's not widely supported. A vicious cycle.

Re:Asia? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864921)

The second point is that IPv6 isn't just about a bigger address space. That's certainly the most urgent, but IPv6 has many other features we need: better security, more efficient routing, more efficient use of mobile networks, etc.

Please lets have an honest discussion about IPv6.

The ONLY benefit that matters is a larger address space.

IPv6 is not more secure.

Routing is no more efficient...the hierarchy thing with larger allocations will help but only slightly. The real problem is proliferation of joe schmoe multi-homed sites announcing their pidly routes.

Any higherarchical improvement will be more than erased by extra bits of TCAM needed per route to address larger prefixes.

Laugh laugh laugh (0)

Kergan (780543) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863031)

3 million IPv6 switchers (0.1% of the 4 billion+ available IPv4 addresses) is a meaningful number? Please wake me up when it's a few dozen millions.

On a side hote, does anyone know how many IP addresses major US IT firms and carriers manage combined? Isn't that more than 3 million IP addresses between them?

Not that good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863107)

Three million people in the USA on IPv6 doesn't sounds like a reason to celebration. With a total population of over 300 million that means less than 1% has moved over to IPv6.

Re:Not that good (1)

narcc (412956) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863413)

While the population is over 300 million, not all of those people own computers. In fact, a good number of the more recent additions mostly just droll on the keyboard. :)

Re:Not that good (1)

wisty (1335733) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864661)

> a good number of the more recent additions mostly just droll on the keyboard

How very drool!

Re:Not that good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864917)

True, but it's probably better to think of it in terms of however million internet connected devices. Which is a bit harder to gauge in some way as many are hidden behind routers and modems that don't support IPv6

mod DowN (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863171)

rival distribution, 220 RUNNING NT A productivity I burnt out. I

Interesting timing. (1)

Tubal-Cain (1289912) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863437)

Well that was interesting. I loaded this page and started reading. As I mused about how I probably can't get IPv6 with my AT&T DSL (modem doesn't seem to support it), the the doorbell rang. It was an AT&T rep pushing their fiber-optic package.

Apparently I can't get Internet-only fiber service; I'd need to pay for phone or TV as well. :-(

Re:Interesting timing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863721)

I have internet-only fiber service, but the provider (Fairpoint) is restricted by local politics from providing TV on it. No IPv6 routing yet, maybe 2013.

So far early adopters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863539)

So far IPv6 is just for early adopters and those who can't get an IPv4 address. Read my message: "In less than 1 year, people will be talking about IPv6 and 'to boldly go where millions of others have gone before'".

FIOS gossip (0)

jbolden (176878) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863767)

Well as long as we are doing an IPv6 story. Anyone have any good gossip and / or confirmed information about when Verizon is moving Fios or any plans or...?

86% of IPv4 addresses are not used (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40863801)

Dont confuse allocation with utilization. They may have almost allocated the entire address space, but almost all of it stands unused. Most ISPs have better than a 5:1 ratio of free ip's. There are universities who have millions of ip's allocated and use literally a handful on the actual Internet.

As ips actually become rare, they will cost more and people will make the change on an economic basis, just as they do for any scarce resource. We are decades away from the majority of the Internet being ipv6. Most adoptions currently are for ideological reasons.

Re:86% of IPv4 addresses are not used (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864459)

Very not true. See here [potaroo.net] : At the time of writing, 153.38 /8s of 220.67 total are advertised (not necessarily in use, but there is a route). The total isn't 256 /8s due to reserved address space that isn't available for global unicast allocation. Most of the unadvertised but allocated space is in legacy allocations. The few companies and universities which have millions of addresses for relatively small networks got their addresses back then. Non-legacy addresses are mostly advertised and in use, as that has been a requirement for getting new address space for a long time.

There are no addresses left to be assigned to the RIRs. APNIC has "run out", meaning it's down to the address space that it reserved for IPv6 transition measures. RIPE is going to run out before the end of the year, with ARIN following not much later. ISPs are already using NAT for big chunks of their user base (mostly the mobile networks). An increasing number of internet users can only choose between no public IP address (and NAT) or an IPv6 address.

Re:86% of IPv4 addresses are not used (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864953)

It's going to be a problem eventually, but, 15 years ago most in the developed world didn't have an internet connection, now most do and not just in the developed world, it's catching on in the developing world as well. It's hard to say how the adoption curve will be in the future, but since IPv4 has fewer than 1 IP per person currently alive and that's if you assign out every address, even the private ones, we will run out completely before too long. The only reason it hasn't already happen is NAT.

This is one of those things where you could throw a cludge in that would redistribute smaller blocks of IP, but what do you do about the massive disruption? For better or for worse people who have had IPs allocated have counted on having them until they agree to give them up. Splitting blocks is a real headache.

Plus, how do you suggest we account for all the tiny blocks of IPs that this would take?

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dreamlitongxi (2699485) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863887)

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The real power of IPv6 (5, Insightful)

WML MUNSON (895262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40863953)

The real power of IPv6 is that it allows us to eliminate NAT. Because of the size of the IPv6 address pool, every mobile device can have a publicly routable address and thus function as a server.

Facebook was originally developed and hosted in a college dorm room. With IPv6, the next "big thing" could be developed and hosted in someone's pocket.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864183)

I don't know for a fact, but I'm willing to bet that computer in the college dorm room used NAT. And that brings me back to the question so many have asked:

Why get rid of NAT? Isn't IPv6 just a solution in search of a problem?

I use NAT for my home intranet. It's easy - two lines in my iptables config file. And everything works fine. Usually when you have an unnecessary solution like this, someone is making a lot of money off it, but I don't really see that here. I just don't get it.

NAT is evil (4, Interesting)

hokeyru (749540) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864873)

Widespread acceptance of NAT subverts the egalitarian premise of the internet, that all nodes are created equal, and promotes a two-tier system: providers and consumers.

Re:NAT is evil (1)

WML MUNSON (895262) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865071)

Widespread acceptance of NAT subverts the egalitarian premise of the internet, that all nodes are created equal, and promotes a two-tier system: providers and consumers.

Yes, exactly!

Re:NAT is evil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865201)

And also, NAT make surveillance a BITCH!

Re:The real power of IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864931)

The next big thing is in my pocket

Re:The real power of IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864965)

Because when you don't have an N:N mapping of addresses a lot of the older protocols break and newer services have to have kludges to handle the fact that sending a message back to the same IP may or may not get through to the original machine without a lot of workarounds.

NAT itself isn't the problem, it's the M:N mapping and the multiple levels which cause issues.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (3, Insightful)

kiddygrinder (605598) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865223)

just wait till you get double natted and see how you feel

Re:The real power of IPv6 (2)

FireFury03 (653718) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865237)

I don't know for a fact, but I'm willing to bet that computer in the college dorm room used NAT.

I'm willing to bet it didn't. Certainly when I was at university, everything had an unfirewalled global scope IP (this was not that long ago, but still before the days of evil on the internet that required everyone to have a firewall).

Why get rid of NAT?

Because its an almighty pain in the arse. It breaks all sorts of things, and if you haven't discovered that yet, you presumably have never managed a moderately complex network or done anything other than plain old web browsing.

I use NAT for my home intranet. It's easy - two lines in my iptables config file. And everything works fine.

No it doesn't - the things you use it for presumably work fine, but there's all sorts of technologies that really struggle to work through NAT (and for good reason, not just because of a flawed protocol design). Throwing NAT out is a good thing - it makes networks less complex and more reliable.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864241)

Na all those home connections will still be blocking ports and disallowing server via TOS.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864529)

The real power of IPv6 is that it allows us to eliminate NAT.

Which is a bad idea for home users.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864775)

Not really. What is a bad idea is relying on NAT's breaking of the internet as a crappy firewall.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865277)

Home users will still have firewalls, only this time they will be real rather than imaginary and only requiring a UDP tunnel to bypass. Things like Skype create vast paths in a NAT based network that go back to various machines. NAT creates a perception of protection without any reality.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (1)

Dan541 (1032000) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865743)

Home users will still have firewalls,.

Home users don't have firewalls now, we can't assume that's going to change with IPv6.

Worst offenders for disabling firewalls seem to be gamers. Then there people still running XP without any service packs, the Outlook Express types who know nothing but manage to just get by.

Re:The real power of IPv6 (1)

FireFury03 (653718) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865503)

The real power of IPv6 is that it allows us to eliminate NAT.

Which is a bad idea for home users.

Umm, why?

Re:The real power of IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865683)

Because NAT is a fairly good firewall

Re:The real power of IPv6 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865753)

NAT is a fantastic firewall. As an added bonus being on a separate device means it's not easy for malware to disable.

I am surprised by the amount of IPv6 traffic we se (2)

dskoll (99328) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864105)

We (http://www.roaringpenguin.com/) turned on IPv6 for World IPv6 Day and I'm quite surprised by how much IPv6 traffic we see:

awk '{print $1}' access-2012-08-01 | grep -c ':'
1298

awk '{print $1}' access-2012-08-01 | grep -v -c ':'
16192

That's about 8% of the hits on our site, which is about eight times what I expected.

Re:I am surprised by the amount of IPv6 traffic (2)

dskoll (99328) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864161)

Ah, it's not all roses. A lot of the IPv6 hits are things like this:

2403:1400:1:2:8185:895b:7f27:4318 - - [01/Aug/2012:14:00:30 -0400] "GET / HTTP/1.1" 200 9763 "-" "OpenNMS PageSequenceMonitor (Service name: HTTP-v6)"

2001:8a0:2106:ff:213:13:29:205 - - [31/Jul/2012:15:20:37 -0400] "HEAD / HTTP/1.1" 200 - "-" "curl/7.18.2 (i486-pc-linux-gnu) libcurl/7.18.2 OpenSSL/0.9.8g zlib/1.2.3.3 libidn/1.8 libssh2/0.18"

The number of "real" IPv6 hits seems depressingly low.

Nearly every phone (3, Informative)

phantomfive (622387) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864201)

Nearly every phone is running IPv6 already. Do an 'adb shell ifconfig' or 'adb shell netstat' on an android phone and you'll see some IPv6 addresses pop up. (Actually I'm not sure about iPhone, I'll check it tomorrow when I get to work).

Re:Nearly every phone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40864777)

iOS does IPv6 just fine at an OS level but the user interface for it is almost completely missing.

Blacklisted IPv4 addresses (5, Interesting)

sandytaru (1158959) | more than 2 years ago | (#40864455)

We recently had to move a client over to IPv6 faster than intended because we couldn't get a block of clean IPv4 static addresses from the ISP. That problem is only going to get worse over time.

Re:Blacklisted IPv4 addresses (1)

FireFury03 (653718) | more than 2 years ago | (#40865525)

We recently had to move a client over to IPv6 faster than intended because we couldn't get a block of clean IPv4 static addresses from the ISP. That problem is only going to get worse over time.

Meanwhile, I have the opposite problem with Eclipse internet. One of my customers needed a new internet connection (we're talking 100Mbps leased line, not a poxy ADSL), so we recommended they check the prospective ISPs supported IPv6. "Yes, we support it " says Eclipse, so they went with them. When it actually got installed, Eclipse sent through the IPv4 details, so I replied asking for the IPv6 details too... they replied saying they didn't offer IPv6 to customers yet. When pressed further, they said "Our network fully supports IPv6, but we don't offer the service to our customers" - what a complete waste of time. (Of course, the customer doesn't see it as important enough to make a big fuss about, but if it were me I would be fuming about having been missold a reasonably expensive connection).

There is a myth that IPv6... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 2 years ago | (#40865169)

"There is a myth that IPv6 is only for those in Asia" I have NEVER heard of such a myth. The myth that I have heard of is "IPv6 is only for those who wants to with certainty point out that a specific package came from your toaster"... Wait! that is not a myth. That is IPv6 main reason for existence (now that we have NAT)

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